00:05welcome to the mason duke check show and before we jump in this episode is brought to you by
00:11workforcealchemy.com the place where business owners and executives go to uncover and address
00:17profit leaks hidden in their everyday operations neil thubron is an executive coach sales performance
00:25expert keynote speaker endurance athlete and author of you can he has led large multinational
00:34sales organizations more than 25 years including global teams across 38 countries and he brings
00:41lessons from the british army ibm and extreme endurance events including the ultra trail du
00:49mont blanc and the yukon arctic ultra today neil helps business leaders and sales teams think
00:56clearly lead confidently and perform with discipline in a way that is sustainable and human neil welcome
01:04to the show wow thank you mason and thank you for that very kind introduction as well it's great to
01:10be here thank you for having me so when you look back at your time in the army ibm global
01:15sales
01:16leadership and extreme endurance events what experience most changed the way that you think
01:21about leadership hmm great question and i'm very fortunate actually because i've been in different
01:29environments and have different experiences there are two or three key moments i think there was as a
01:40child there were many moments actually around me i've always been interested in leadership so as a child
01:44i've always been interested in leaders great leaders and i was and i and i was in leadership positions
01:50i think the first real experience that opened up my mind to a different style of leadership
01:58was i was a young manager in in ibm i was one of the youngest that they'd ever had at
02:0422 and two years
02:05after my first management job i was involved in a experiment to empower employees and run empowered
02:15teams and that meant that instead of all the decisions coming to the manager to make and all the
02:22decisions cascading down the team would make decisions and there was one particular moment in that
02:31situation where where i was working with the team and one of my my number two who was my kind
02:37of like
02:37lieutenant they moved on to another role so i had to backfill this job now normally i'd be the hiring
02:44manager i'd go out and hire people into the role and in this empowered world i went to the team
02:51and i said
02:52okay guys you're hiring for this role because they're going to be your supervisor so the candidates that
03:00apply are going to be interviewed by you and you're going to you make a recommendation i'm not going to
03:05overrule it i might facilitate ask some questions and what i learned from that was there was someone i
03:12hoped they would choose because there was someone i thought they're the right person i thought that
03:16and they chose someone completely different who was a young lady in an all-male environment she was the
03:22only lady they chose her for the role and they were absolutely right so that was a key moment in
03:28leadership which is if you if you enable and empower your teams then they make the right decisions
03:35they know just as much if not more than you do about what's right for the business and that that
03:41team
03:41actually was so successful in being empowered and they even decided on their own pay rises their own
03:47promotions all that and i facilitated it the bbc came in and did a documentary on us
03:54and so that was one key moment that helped me and developed me as a leader and pretty close to
04:02the
04:02same time i was going through sandhurst as a as an officer in the army reserves so i was going
04:09through
04:09some of the best leadership and management training you could ever have a bit like west point in the
04:15u.s it's fantastic leadership skill so i got to work in this empowered world in the corporate space
04:21and at the same time i was being taught the military style of leadership which isn't authoritarian
04:27that everyone thinks it is it isn't about just discipline and telling people what to do
04:31it was very similar it was about inclusiveness it was about being clear on where you're going that's a
04:37leader's role but to be inclusive and make sure everybody is part of that process obviously in a crisis
04:45things are different when you've got to do things urgently you have to step forward and make decisions
04:49quickly but in general it was about inclusiveness and empowerment so those that was a key moment
04:56that was in the 1990s 1992 so very early on in my leadership you and i have walked similar paths
05:02on both sides on different sides of the big pond i know you're in england right now i was army
05:07rotc
05:08okay so i went through military leadership training and my officer basic training at fort
05:14learnwood missouri more than half of my class was comprised of west point graduates probably 40% was
05:22comprised of rotc folks like myself and then maybe 10% ocs candidates so we really i can agree with
05:30you
05:31that we learned leadership skills leadership by example and serving first and they put us in
05:37situations stressful conditions and taught us to be able to communicate clearly and think clearly and
05:43and and communicate clearly and follow up and inspect what we expect and a lot of the basic things
05:48on the other side i actually worked for a national sales trainer and motivational speaker who specializes
05:53in the automotive industry and my first sales manager was an ex ibm executive okay and he had two
06:01shirts well he had multiple shirts but one was a white one and one was a blue one and he
06:05had a very
06:06basic tie his shoes were polished you could almost like the military and he was an excellent mentor to me
06:11and
06:11he one of the things he told me i'll never forget he said how would you he said how would
06:15you treat a
06:16garden that was your only source of food he said that's your people wow said what would you would
06:22you water the soil would you fertilize it would you give it time to grow would you put up a
06:27fence to
06:27protect it from the elements and outside harm so yeah that's what you do to protect a garden that was
06:33your only source of food and he said your people are your only source of food and and when i
06:38was a young
06:39man that stuck with still sticks with me today and that's been and i went through about the same
06:44time you did so that was one of those things that really stuck stuck with me and i love that
06:49that's
06:50a beautiful analogy really good it's fascinating that that two people from halfway around the world
06:56have walked similar paths between ultra endurance events between corporate between military training and
07:04it's it's i feel like you're a kindred spirit and it's very easy to talk to you so i i
07:10agree i look to
07:11i look to you online mason i thought there are very lots of so many similarities and overlap let me
07:17tell you
07:17a funny story about sales ibm sales school just just because you've just reminded me talking about the
07:23your manager so when you go to ibm sales school which was at the time was the best corporate sales
07:28training you could ever do it was 12 weeks long it was intensive it every week you were assessed and
07:34you if you weren't good enough you were sent home so it was a it was a attrition but one
07:40of the first
07:40week i was there they had a a specialist come in to teach you what to wear and how to
07:49look you know
07:49literally this is part of the sales training and they said look the key thing is spend the most money
07:56you can afford on the pair of shoes that is your number one thing second thing is on the belt
08:03that
08:04you have because it's funny you mentioned that as well so shoes and belt and then the tie is the
08:09third
08:10thing so you don't have to spend money on a really expensive suit shoes belt tie were the key things
08:14and then white shirt you know white blue gray that was it he was white and blue no gray white
08:20or blue
08:21that was it no i mean great so gray suit or blue suit that was all yes okay yeah yeah
08:26so yeah that's
08:27he followed those directions for sure so in your opinion what should a ceo do when their team is
08:34under pressure performance is slipping and everyone's looking to them for certainty so and i see this
08:41situation quite a lot coaching leaders especially in the environment we're in today with a lot of
08:46uncertainty and a lot of change going on the ceo's role and the leader of any organization's role is
08:52to be absolutely clear on the vision and direction that you're going and and have a belief that that
08:58we are you know this is where we're going this is the vision this is why we're going there and
09:03then
09:03when things are hard it's helping people see that even small steps are moving you closer to that
09:11vision so that intention intended place you know the the analogy i'll use here is i did i took part
09:18in an offshore sailing race a couple of years ago and i sailed from northeast australia to china
09:25out through the pacific it was a 5 500 mile 30 days at sea ocean race and we left early
09:33beach and our
09:33destination was zoo high in china and it didn't matter whether the wind changed whether the storms came in
09:39whether the sea got big and you know we were getting battered around on the boat the destination
09:45was the same sometimes we had to steer away from the destination because the wind was coming in the
09:51wrong direction and then we had to work up you know come back on course by tacking on so a
09:58key thing for
09:58leaders is be be absolutely clear and believe in where you're going the vision of where you're going and
10:03why you're going there and then the other thing i'd say about leaders in that type of situation is
10:09you've got to be down and amongst your people because people worry people fill in blanks if there's
10:17if they if there's a vacuum in communication just spend time with people listening to them not
10:24necessarily talking to them and and and just helping them see that what they're doing is adding value and
10:30moving them in the right direction i love what you're saying there and given our similar backgrounds
10:35i was curious what your answer to that question is going to be the one other thing they taught us
10:40in
10:40leadership training back in the day was that if you're going to be amongst your people and they
10:45said you should leadership by example don't ask anything of anyone else that you're not willing to do
10:49yourself but they always told us to be calm even if you're really nervous or really not at ease
10:57that it's important to portray a sense of calm simply because people look to you to set the tone
11:03for how they think they should react if if if in the flood of my unit was activated in 1993
11:09for the
11:10great flood in missouri on the mississippi river and my unit was the first that was activated for state
11:16emergency flood duty and i remember sitting in rotc class and hearing my instructors talk about
11:21the importance of being graceful under pressure and putting on a calm face and even if you were
11:27agitated concerns even scared to be able to focus on the task be clear be calm and not for lack
11:35of
11:36better word not freak out because people look to you to to determine if they're uncertain they look
11:42to you to determine how they should feel and how they should react to the news and to the changes
11:47that are coming and i like what you said about being focused on the outcome tony robbins talks about
11:52being committed to your outcome and flexible in your approach and that's pretty much what you
11:55described so i was just very curious what how you would answer that and yeah and i think there's
12:01two comments i'd add mason to that one the first one is that the leading from the front or stepping
12:08in
12:08and and and when things are high and leading by example i think there's there's a time and a place
12:13for that and you have to be really careful as a leader doing that because if i use the yacht
12:18example
12:19in a in a storm where you want the skipper is at the back of the boat because they can
12:24see everything
12:25that's going on and they can give clear instructions that what needs doing because if you're on the bow
12:30you can't see anything you're just getting bashed around by the waves i was a bowman and that is a
12:35brutal place to be if you're in the cockpit you're just concentrating on the grinder to make sure you're
12:41so there is if if the leader jumps in and starts grinding or runs to the bow no one's got
12:49perspective
12:49of the whole situation but if someone freezes and that's a good time to jump in and go god and
12:57shut
12:57and then hand it over to it and i think that's a uh a key point about about leading from
13:03the front so
13:04yeah just an observation i'd make you know i'm gonna i'm gonna like i'm glad we're having this
13:08conversation because let me expound on that when i probably should have said instead of leading from
13:11the front i should have said lead by example in that again let me reiterate i would never ask
13:17anything of my guys that i wouldn't do myself i remember being in panama in the early 90s and we
13:21were
13:22building roads and bridges and we were in very underdeveloped jungle areas for lack of better
13:28explanation and when we flew out of st louis it was nine degrees fahrenheit and freezing when we
13:35landed in panama it was 90 in the 90s and humid yeah yeah it was a complete shock to our
13:43system and
13:45if my guys were out there in the mud and in the mess and in the heat and humidity i'm
13:53not sitting in
13:54some air-conditioned tent or some air-conditioned truck yeah absolutely kind of what you're talking
13:57about about being out with them i you know it's it's it would be very easy to have animosity from
14:02the
14:02guys justifiably so if it's like well lieutenant's not here you know he's in the air conditioning
14:08talking to the officers you know he might feel differently about what we could accomplish in
14:12what period of time and how well it will be done if he was out here with a shovel he
14:16was out here
14:17with a dozer if he was out here moving dirt sweating through his uniform to the point that i mean
14:21because
14:22our uniforms were so wet it was like we jumped into into the ocean yeah yeah yeah and you know
14:28my guys
14:29knew that again i would never ask anything of them that i wouldn't do myself and when you talked about
14:34being out amongst them i think that's a critical importance because then they there's a sense of
14:41purpose it's it's like they're not it's not punitive that they're stuck out in the jungle in the heat
14:46sweating dirty grimy and stinky it's purposeful like hey we're working together to accomplish this
14:52task and everyone's going through at the same time i think that's so true at the corporate level as well
14:57you know there are too many you know you hear the ivory tower phrase used a lot and too many
15:03executives are making decisions in the rear echelon without actually having been in the front line to
15:13see what's going on it doesn't mean they've got to be involved in the fight but they've got to be
15:18there to see and actually experience so what is it the customers are saying because if they're hearing
15:23it secondhand from a salesperson or sales manager they're going yeah maybe that salesperson's not
15:29asking the right questions but actually if they're there and they're listening and they're seeing it
15:33they go okay actually that is what the customers say so i think that's important as well so you make
15:38a great it's being part of the environment what um what do you think are some of the biggest mistakes
15:43that leaders make when they're trying to drive performance especially during times of uncertainty
15:48what are some what are some of the other mistakes bullying bullying and and being aggressive and
15:53using fear as the motivator honestly i coach quite a few leaders in the sas world in the software as
16:01a service world which is a quite a a tough sales environment and and people and and sales teams are
16:08driven hard to deliver every month mainly because they've got investors to keep happy because they're
16:14all on borrowed money so their their sales teams are all driven here and where i see it is it's
16:21that
16:21bullying fear culture i'll give you i mean i've been involved in this personally but i'll give you an
16:26example of one recently where the one of the guys i was coaching his team he runs europe was not
16:34delivering
16:35on target or they didn't have a forecast that was going to deliver what that was needed so he was
16:40asked
16:40to explain on a every single day including a saturday what's happening with the pipeline what
16:48are you doing to move these deals forward and instead of being out there selling he was putting
16:53together slides and charts to take to a review and instead of his team out there selling he's on the
16:59phone to them asking them about updates to deals and asking people to go in on a saturday is just
17:05threatening that is because no deal no customers in on a saturday so no deal moves from a friday
17:10to a saturday you know there's nothing happens in that 24 hours and i see that a lot and i
17:16experienced
17:17it once where i had a senior director and he loved to be a bully because he was and and
17:24why are they
17:24bullies because they're fearful about what they might look like to their boss it's fear driving them
17:28that makes people behave like that so that's the worst behavior i see is bullying and using fear
17:35you know what i i'm gonna go go back to what you were talking about earlier about being in it
17:42with
17:42the guys instead of sitting in the ivory tower opinion giving your opinion and guidance from from from
17:48safety i've always felt that the pain is never too great for the people that don't feel it the risk
17:56is
17:56never too high for the people who don't have to the price is never too high for the people don't
18:00have to pay it and the risk is never too high for people whose necks aren't on the line
18:05and i think that when you think about that as a leader when you put yourself in with your people
18:11they appreciate and they respect and they respond to that because they know that if you're out in the
18:17safety of a the ivory tower or the office suite or whatever it is and you're not where the rubber
18:22meets
18:22the road it's just hard to have that level of respect relative to someone who's in it with you
18:27so i appreciate your take on that 100 different question how do you approach turning something
18:34that's a big ambition vision wise into a practical execution plan that people can actually follow
18:42yeah and it's it's it's something that you know i've had to think about numerous times for my personal
18:48ambitions that i've set you know because i've i love setting really big ambitious goals and when
18:53i've worked with my coaching clients and we're going to get to your ambitious goals i mean it's
18:56not everyone that does the extreme endurance so we're going to get to that too so go ahead though
19:00but they do overlap a little bit because as you mentioned i wrote that book you can and i and
19:07i'm going to refer to that because in that book i i wrote about a formula for achieving any big
19:15goal
19:15which was the 7p formula and the reason that i wrote about that was because i just wanted to help
19:22other people achieve big goals and that just breaks down how do you get ready and then what do you
19:29do when
19:30you're on the journey to achieve that big goal and we can talk about the 7p yes let's talk about
19:34that
19:34so okay so look the the first p is purpose you have to know your why so once you've set
19:39a big
19:39goal you're clear on your intention you're clear where you're going the first p is purpose know your
19:43why two two types of why that are key internal reason why why am i doing it for me why
19:49am i doing
19:50what how am i going to grow what experience am i going to get and you'll know this from having
19:55run
19:55100 miles the internal purpose and doing ironman because ironman's just as hard of running 100 miles
20:01i've done a couple i thought the 100 mile was worse honestly but did you okay i thought you're
20:0710 hours longer that's all right but the the internal reason why gets you out of bed early
20:14in the morning to get on the bike or get on the trails running get yourself ready get you over
20:18the
20:19start line but when things get hard it's easy to give up on ourselves and come up with excuses
20:26you know i'm not feeling it today my legs hurting you know i'm i've got an upset stomach whatever
20:32excuse you come up with in your head that you're going to put on facebook to say why you didn't
20:36finish it and then the second but the second reason why is the one that keeps you going and that's
20:41your external reason why who else are you doing this for who else is going to benefit from you
20:47achieving this goal whether that's them being inspired or you're raising money for the for a
20:53or you're helping develop a team you know with with business leaders the external reason why might
20:59be what does this mean for my employees and how and how i can give them security in the future
21:05so internal and external reasons why that's the first p the second p is about preparation
21:11and i'm gonna stop here let's take this in bites because i'm okay i'm listening to this conversation
21:16thinking back to when i signed up and did my first ironman or when i signed up and did my
21:20first 100
21:21mile ultra marathon and i have friends that most of my friends have done extreme endurance events
21:27also and i have been there in those moments with them and i know that when i stepped on the
21:33i when i
21:33stuck my toe in the water to do my first ironman i was i'm not gonna say terrified but i
21:39was really
21:39nervous yeah but i took a little bit of peace in the fact that i knew that i had prepared
21:44i had done
21:45everything that i knew that i could possibly do to prepare for that event and in my mind i i
21:50literally
21:51walked into the water saying it's finish line or medical tent to me i am not walking off this
21:56course if i get hit by a car while i'm riding my bike or you know pass out or something
22:01like that
22:01like break a leg what whatever happens i end up in the med tent and i wake up well then
22:07i guess
22:07i'm gonna have to try again some other time but i am not i was mentally i am not going
22:13to walk
22:13off of this course it's finish line or med tent period and i did not give myself the option now
22:18you
22:18and i both know that that's easy to say when you're getting ready to start but then when things
22:23go south which they do there are unexpected you know you don't expect that you're nauseous you
22:28don't expect that you're dizzy you don't expect that your legs are cramping up because of heat
22:31and you're short on electrolytes and all of that other stuff that happens and and you your body's
22:38never been that far and you get exposed to things you didn't know exist you might have read about
22:42them or heard about them but until it happens to you it's not real and as as far as preparation
22:47i
22:47always made an effort to surround myself with people who knew the difference between i can't
22:54say how important it is this is one of those things where i'm going to rant a little bit about
22:57how
22:57important the right people are around you i didn't need cheerleaders i didn't need people so you can do
23:05it i already had motivation i needed people who understood difference between being injured and
23:11hurting i'm supposed to hurt that's the part of it it's gonna be painful it's gonna hurt i might not
23:17have expected how much it's gonna hurt or how long it's gonna hurt but it's gonna come and i need
23:22people around me that and mine my peers do they they would absolutely taunt me for wimping or whining
23:27whining and saying anything snivelly and i that would live forever and i don't want to hear about
23:33i remember when mason was doing that ultramarathon he was whining and snivelly he was like no way i kept
23:38my mouth shut focused on what i needed to do and i had people that could think clearly in my
23:43absence
23:43problem solved beyond my abilities at that time and do better and we were talking offline
23:51i volunteered at the heartland 100 ultramarathon here in the united states for the past couple years
23:57and i volunteered it's a 50 miles out and 50 miles back and i volunteered at the 44 mile aid
24:02station on
24:03the way out and it's the 56 mile on the way back and my main job is talking people out
24:08of quitting
24:09and i can tell you that the people that showed up because at 44 miles people are tired at 56
24:14they're
24:15more tired but i can tell you their attitude is different at 56 because they think hey i'm on the
24:20way back anyway my point is is i watched how the people that had experienced crews of hardcore people
24:29that understood the mentality of like sure you're hurt but you're not injured you're not delusional
24:35you haven't broken a leg you haven't passed out you're not vomiting even if you are you can get
24:39that out of your system and bounce back you got time those those type of conversations versus
24:44the someone who didn't they brought someone for uh some people didn't have a crew they might have just
24:51had drop bags where at certain points in the race they could anticipate what needs they might have
24:56and have supplies ready for them and people that were prepared i would say the best the likelihood
25:05the greatest likelihood of people finishing and doing well were the people that prepared and had a
25:09great crew with them the second most likely was people that were individuals who were prepared
25:14who had prepared for all of the things and were just freaking tough and were and then the then the
25:21ones that were the highest risk for not finishing at least from my observation were the ones that
25:26might have had a crew of like a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a mom who was there to make
25:33sure
25:34that nothing bad happened and they could get into the hospital if something did those were the absolute
25:39worst because they might have been cheerleaders but i literally saw moms out there that were sick
25:44and tired after 12 hours of being out in the middle of nowhere waiting for their kid to show up
25:48they're bored they don't want to be there honestly i mean they want their kid to do well but
25:52for them it's no fun legit it isn't fun but when they see their kid or their husband or their
25:57wife
25:58or their boyfriend or girlfriend suffering they're like oh honey it's okay you've done your best you
26:02know you don't have there's nothing you have to prove and that that type of feedback in an environment
26:07like that is poison i've watched people that were perfectly capable of moving on drop out of a race
26:15because mama said you don't have anything to prove you've done your best and my permission oh lady you have
26:20it
26:22yeah like it's giving them permission to quit it is and it's it's the same in business by the way
26:28it's the same in if you if you surround yourself with people that are gonna push you because you know
26:41they're not gonna give you sympathy when you lose a deal they're gonna say get up might go on the
26:47phone
26:47and go and find another deal or you know you lose a key employee they're not gonna sympathize you they
26:53might empathize with you but they're gonna if you're surrounding yourself with the right people
26:57they're gonna say okay that's happened now what you're gonna do because the destination hasn't
27:02changed you know and so that's that's one thing i'd say the other thing this is a really great topic
27:07and i see it just taking this purpose analogy the external purpose into the business world
27:12because there are there are there are dark external drivers and light external drivers so there's things
27:18we want to move away from and things we want to move to and i work with a ceo of
27:24a small business in
27:26in the uk and the the energy that drives him the external purpose that drives him is everyone said he
27:33would
27:33fail and everyone said he would fail said he would not succeed so what drives him and this was family
27:41people that said he's what's driving him is i'm going to prove them wrong every single day so you
27:47know he wants to become wealthy and he wants to provide for his family that's internal reasons why
27:51his external reason why is i'm just going to prove these people wrong and so there's that kind of
27:57negative the the positive external reasons why and i had one when i was in the in the arctic was
28:03i was raising money for a little girl who had no ears so and she needed an operation to put
28:11some
28:11hearing mechanisms into her skull so that she could hear and she could she was five years old she
28:16couldn't have a normal life because she couldn't go to school because she couldn't hear and this was
28:20in uganda it was a little girl in uganda and when i was going through pain when i was suffering
28:26i thought about grace and i was i thought i'm doing this every mile i take more people are sponsoring
28:34me
28:34more people are putting money in the pot for grace and so if i didn't want to carry on there's
28:39no way i
28:40was giving up on her so that's the kind of the other type of external reason why you know what
28:46that
28:47there is so much truth to that so this would have been iron man louisville and one of my good
28:53buddies from college who has done a bunch of marathons and he's done a bunch of iron mans etc
28:58and he signed up for iron man louisville and it was incredibly hot the year he did it
29:02it was a first year race director and he was not a super fast swimmer so he was coming in
29:06from the
29:06back and when he got to mile 70 on the bike he he looked terrible and i said he said
29:13he pulls off to
29:14the side he's like dude this isn't my day i i don't i don't think i have it today and
29:18of course i'm
29:18like yeah you do you're fine quit sniveling get some food get some fluid hit the bricks yeah he's
29:24like dude you don't understand he goes they ran out of water he goes i haven't had anything to drink
29:29in 30 miles and it was 90 something degrees and not only did he not have water but he was
29:34using
29:34perpetuum which is a powder-based nutrient for food that you mix with water so he didn't have anything to
29:40eat or drink and it was 90 degrees and he is 70 something miles into the bike ride after swimming
29:462.4 miles and he's dizzy he's bonking he's not in a good place yeah yeah and i gave him
29:52my water
29:53my other but because what the racer is a first year race director and they didn't count on the heat
29:57and they didn't calculate for people drinking the water and other people taking more and dumping it
30:02because people were taking so much water to dump it on themselves keep it cool by the time he got
30:06there they were out which is a travesty but i had some so my buddy we gave him some water
30:11and
30:12he barely made the cutoff to start the run right and because there's time limits for those that
30:17aren't familiar so you don't hit the swim time they don't let you onto the bike course if you
30:22don't finish the bike course a certain time they don't let you onto the run course so he might have
30:25had 20 minutes tops he gets on the marathon and kept pushing and it was so hot and he did
30:30bounce
30:31back and he did recover and this is one of the toughest dudes i know physically mentally tough and
30:35i could see and he had gotten to 20 miles on the marathon and he was one of the last
30:41guys in the
30:42water and the cutoff was a hard cutoff at midnight and you got 17 hours to complete it long story
30:48short
30:48he got in the water about 45 minutes after everyone else so technically to be an official finisher he
30:53only had about 16 hours and 15 minutes to do it right he gets to 20 miles and he's starting
30:58to feel
30:58the pressure of will i make the final cutoff and i'm making a long story short it was a lot
31:04more
31:04dramatic than this but i see him at 22 miles and he sits down on a curb next to me
31:08and he goes i'm
31:09because i've given everything i have like that's it and i looked at him and i said no you haven't
31:16and he looked at me i go you haven't thrown up you haven't passed out and your legs aren't broken
31:21you can finish this he then he rolls over and throws up i go okay so yeah so yeah broken
31:27and you
31:27haven't passed out you'll feel a little bit better get some bananas drink some water get some food
31:32keep moving i said your kids you had two little kids his wife and his parents were at the finish
31:38line i said your kids aren't going to remember any of this what they're going to remember is their dad
31:44finishing what finishing what he set out to do and he looked shook his head and he said okay and
31:50he
31:50wasn't happy with me but he got out and and he proceeded and he walked and he saw his stomach
31:56settled he got a little bite of a banana had a gel had some water proceeded and that he was
32:01able to
32:01jog a little walk a little jog a little and by the time he got to like 24 25 miles
32:06like he actually
32:07had a pretty good sense of humor he had bounced back and was moving and he was like you know
32:11if
32:11it wasn't for the pain in my neck and blisters in my feet and the hips and upset stomach and
32:16the nausea
32:17he goes i feel great so i knew he was back but the bottom line is he finished but what
32:22got him to the
32:22finish line number one it was someone next to him who was experienced that he respected telling him
32:28you're not done yet i'm not going to hear about this you're fine get going and he did and two
32:34your wife and your kids and your parents are waiting for you at the finish line and you don't want
32:38to
32:38come riding in on a on a van they're not going to care if it's 10 or 15 minutes late
32:45dude if you
32:45don't make the quote midnight cutoff you still did this thing under 70 17 hours and you don't need
32:51anyone else telling you that you complete it you know what standard is you accomplish standard and
32:56you're the only one you've got to answer to and when your kids are older they'll understand dad
33:00didn't give up this is a teachable moment for your kids when they get older and the dude finished
33:05and i'll never forget that the kids coming up and hugging him and dad we're so proud of you i
33:09mean he
33:10was just they were little kids and those kids are now college age but i remember like it was yesterday
33:15but like you talked about it was that purpose it's an external purpose that's what drives and you have
33:23to find that you have to search for that if you want to achieve a big goal it's got to
33:27be more than
33:27just for you that's really important you you asked the question about achieving an ambitious goal
33:32and that's why this conversation about purpose is so important because you know the second piece
33:38sorry go on go ahead no i was gonna say the second piece about preparation which is
33:43you can do you you said it earlier right you said i when i went in the water i i
33:49knew i'd done all
33:50the preparation right and so you you've done the jumping off the bike and going on the run so
33:55you've done your brick sessions you know you've you've you've done your swim onto the bike and
33:59you've done your transition practice and that's one of the things i say to people not just in the
34:07sports world but in business too right what what is it you're going to do what's life going to be
34:11like when you're doing that so let's prepare for what life's going to be like when you're doing that
34:16let's get let's practice those sales calls or let's be clear on the you know you're going to
34:21be having conversations with investors or you're going to have to be hiring people so let's do the
34:27preparation so that when you go over the start line you're you're in the best place possible which is
34:33exactly what you you said you know the third piece all about having a plan because you know no you
34:39can't
34:39achieve anything without having a structured plan and it gives you confidence as well just like with a
34:46an endurance event your plan might be you know to have a gel every 20 minutes or every half hour
34:51that is exactly like literally on the hour i'm taking two enduro light tablets 20 minutes after
34:57i'm taking two enduro light tablets 40 minutes after i'm taking two enduro light tablets i've also
35:02got a couple other things i took in between i was taking one but one hour's worth of perpetuum every
35:07hour it was systematic because i had lost track of time you've experienced it if you're when you're out
35:12there exercising for 15 hours or whatever your sense of time five minutes seems like an hour
35:18sometimes and sometimes an hour seems like five minutes so i literally watched my clock and said
35:22these this is how many calories per hour i need to be able to consume this is how many electrolytes
35:27i
35:27need this is how many fluid ounces my body can absorb without getting and i stuck to it and i
35:31didn't have
35:32to think about it so 100 and all of these lessons transfer into business like every single one of them
35:37they do and and you know because if you're if let's say you're setting up your own business
35:42what well you need to plan for what's going to happen when you put your website up for the first
35:49time when the first customer phones you or when you phone the first customer what's that plan look
35:53like how are you going to get customers coming in the door how many do you need what's the plan
35:57for
35:58how many you need to win in the first month in the first six months what's the plan for when
36:02you get
36:03to a certain level of revenue what which employee you hiring first what does that look like
36:07so yeah having a plan is important and i'll just i'll go through the other p's quickly so the fourth
36:12p you've already mentioned the fourth p as well which is really bizarre right because you've talked
36:17about when you got in the water you said it was get to the finish or i'm i'm in a
36:22medical i'm in an
36:23ambulance or i'm yeah so the fourth p is pledge and i call it that might to must moment you
36:30know you
36:30mentioned tony robbins earlier and i'm a massive tony robbins disciple i've been thought you know i've been
36:35influenced by him by for years i've walked over the fire at one of my twice yeah yeah so twice
36:41yeah
36:41i've done so he talks about mike to must and that's at that moment when you step over the start
36:47line
36:47you if it's a big goal it's going to scare you you're going to be nervous you're going to be
36:53uncertain so when you approach that start line your body language might be uncertain nervous when you
36:58step over the start line your physiology changes your eyes come up yeah exactly yeah so you know
37:05you do make your move and you get yourself in the place where the only i'm focused on that finish
37:12on
37:12that vision it's a bit like the clipper race you know the sailing i did the the how you get
37:18there might
37:18change but the destination's the same and so the pledge is key that's the that's the fourth p
37:24i'll pause for a second so feel free to continue with the others okay so the the the the the
37:34fifth
37:34p is when you step over the start line and you'll have heard this when from your officer training you
37:41know no plan survives contact with the enemy so the having a plan is great but you have to have
37:48perception which is the fifth p you have to be perceptive about are you getting the results you want
37:54are you moving towards your goal with the strategy you've got or do you need to change it so for
38:01instance when i did the arctic my strategy was i was gonna walk the three hours and then i was
38:09gonna
38:09sit on my pole have something to eat have something to drink you know walk run for three hours along
38:14the
38:14along the ice within the first probably six hours i realized three hours is too long so i had to
38:23change
38:23it to two hours and it was two hours then 10 minutes stop two hours 10 minutes stop and i
38:28just
38:28did that for nearly seven days i was gonna get to aid stations to sleep but the first night it
38:35was so
38:36brutally cold it got down to minus 55 degrees centigrade i don't know what that is in fahrenheit but very
38:42very cold and i had to make a decision to put a tent up on the side of the trail
38:47in those conditions
38:48in the middle of nowhere just to keep going and so you have to you know you might have a
38:54plan but
38:55you have to change and it's the same in business you know if if the value proposition you're using
39:01with your customers isn't working if the prospecting isn't working if the if the the pricing solution is
39:09then you've got it am i getting the results i want if i'm not then let's make some changes
39:14so this is gonna this is gonna sound wimpy in comparison to seven days going through the arctic
39:20but like i said when when i did my 100 miler i had a crew full of accomplished ultra marathoners
39:27and ironman triathletes on my crew my crew chief represented the united states in the 24-hour ultra
39:33running competition which meant he was one of the top six ultra runners in the united states and to
39:38qualify for to race and he had he ran 155 miles and some change in 24 hours to be one
39:44of the top
39:44six and he was my crew chief so when i got to 44 miles he's like how you feeling i
39:51go man my quads
39:51are smoking he's like let me guess you've been blasting the downhills running the flats and walking
39:57the uphills i go you know i have and he goes that's why your quads are smashed he goes we're
40:01going to
40:02change your plan and i'm going to have you run up some of these hills but we're going to take
40:06really
40:06small steps and we're going to lean into yes and i'm like i wouldn't have thought of that and
40:13you know what we might walk a little bit of some downhills we're going to give your muscles a little
40:17bit of a break at the angles that we're working and we'll give you a chance to recover a little
40:20bit
40:21we're going to switch things up i will tell you i felt better at mile 75 than i did at
40:2644 now after
40:28about mile 80 then it all sucked but my but my point was he got me before by chain by
40:33being by using the
40:34term was perceptive is that the term be perceptive about the results you're getting yeah it wasn't
40:40working well and he caught it early enough to and i was surrounded by people who i knew i should
40:46listen to because they were knowledgeable and i listened and that helped so but compared to walk
40:51around the arctic that's nothing but it's all relative it's all relative mason to be honest because
40:56you know there are very few people in the world who can say they've run 100 miles and done
41:00several iron man there's fewer that have gone seven days through the arctic adventures but anyway
41:04so keep so keep going what are the other uh all right six p we're nearly there six p is
41:09pain
41:10have a pain strategy because whatever your big goal is you're going to have difficult times
41:15and so the reason i came up with the pain strategy was in preparation work out what your pain strategy
41:22is
41:22so you've got got it and it might just be for me it was i went i had a piece
41:28of music i wanted to
41:29listen to and i had a playlist that i i wanted to listen to i kept it in my pocket
41:35here in an old
41:36style ipod and i kept it here because it kept it warm because in out there if it gets cold
41:41the
41:41batteries just run flat so i had it next to my chest and when i got to my lowest point
41:46i put the music on
41:47and it was katrina in the ways walking on sunshine it came on and just lifted me up and because
41:54i'd used
41:55it in training as you know i was listening to it when i was feeling good getting a peak state
42:01a peak state yeah so so what gets you in a peak state it could be a taste it could
42:05be a sound it
42:06could be a smell something that's going to get you in that state when you and it's the pain i
42:10call it
42:10pain strategy i could have called it a peak state strategy actually so but that have a pain strategy
42:15who you're going to phone that is gonna not give you sympathy but it's going to give you empathy
42:21maybe they there's someone who believe in you more than you believe in yourself
42:25that's that's the kind of person you want in your pain strategy i love it man so that's the sixth
42:31the seventh p is basically persistence because you only ever fail at not achieving an ambitious goal
42:37if you give up it might not happen exactly as you wanted it if you were over in the states
42:43we
42:43would be hanging out because like when you talk about pain strategy i i knew like i bought this book
42:49called fixing my feet read about like i i purchased a scalpel like a medical grade scalpel
42:55if i had to cut my foot open to make sure that it was sealed i had i had duct
42:59tape i had
43:01moleskin i had body glide i had multiple levels of preparation because it was med tent or finish
43:06line i'm not stopping i had tums for an upset stomach i had stuff if i got bad headaches i
43:13mean
43:13i was prepared for all of i had pain strategy and as far as music i would not allow myself
43:19to listen
43:19to music until i hit mile 80 right like that was eight mile 82 was the last aid station where
43:26i could
43:26actually access people that i knew so so for the last 18 miles my reward was i would be able
43:31to
43:31listen to music and i had that playlist ready to go that had the stuff that was where i'm on
43:36autopilot
43:36i'm just gonna suck this up and keep going and persistence just like you said it's just relentless
43:42forward progress like i don't care if it hurts the way i looked at it's like it's gonna hurt anyway
43:48and what else do i have to do why is there someplace else i need to be right now is
43:51there something like
43:52it's in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere kansas at this point i'm like there's
43:56nowhere else i gotta be it's gonna hurt anyway even if i stop right now it's still gonna hurt the
44:01only thing is i'd have to go do this whole thing over again just to get where i'm at and
44:04i'm not doing
44:04that i want my buckle and off i went so i i can relate to a lot of the the
44:09things you're you're saying
44:10what do you think business owners understand about resilience that's often misunderstood in
44:16corporate life yeah resilience is a word that's thrown around too much these days and not really
44:21understood and i you know i have to coach many senior leaders that think resilience is getting
44:30in early in the morning work until late at night and expecting the same from their team you know
44:34with the resilience is toughing it out and that isn't a resilient strategy that is a get through this
44:41until something breaks strategy and unfortunately i've i know too many senior leaders who got
44:47very ill even died because they take that resilient strategy and why you know one of the things i work
44:55on with all my coaching clients the first thing i do is i say what's your morning routine what's your
45:01morning routine that's going to build resilience for you throughout the day and it has to involve a
45:07certain number of things right it doesn't have to involve all of them i mean i'm a bit of an
45:10extremist when it comes to morning routine but it has to involve some kind of gratitude
45:16some kind of breathing and and just taking one or two minutes of meditation just closing your eyes
45:23and just visualizing the day ahead you know if you've got time get out and walk get out in nature
45:28get out and run do some kind of exercise just do some press-ups and squats or something that gets
45:33blood flowing around your body you know drink them drink plenty of water all the all the things that
45:38everybody knows they should do but sure they get too busy and they don't so oh well yeah but i
45:43get
45:44up and then i have to get the kids up and they say set your alarm earlier get up earlier
45:47give yourself
45:48half an hour first thing so that resilience there is and it doesn't you know this is one of the
45:55things i think that leaders get wrong taking that time i call these big rocks you know the stephen
46:01covey talks about big rocks and putting the big rocks in first so i'll sit down with a leader and
46:07i'll get their calendar and i'll go right next week what are your big rocks and so when are you
46:14going to run when are you going to go to the gym when are you going to spend time with
46:18the kids when
46:18are you going to spend time with your wife so let's get those big rocks in the diary first right
46:23now give
46:24that to your assistant and she can fit everything else around those big rocks that's a win you're not
46:29moving those right and and that one of those is the morning routine half an hour every morning put
46:34it in your calendar i know your calendar doesn't start till nine o'clock but put it in at five
46:38five
46:38thirty because it will show up when you switch on your phone and so yeah so that's one of the
46:43key
46:44things about resilience that people don't understand they think they can tough it through
46:47and the answer is you can't that's not that's not sustainable i have loved every mineral conversation
46:53and i'm hopefully we probably pick this up and do this again because there's a whole bunch of
46:56questions i wanted to ask you but for constraints of time how can people learn more about you
47:00your books what are the best ways for them to connect yeah so thank you for the opportunity and
47:06so my name's quite unusual so just search my surname so neil thubberon.com is my website you can
47:13connect me on linkedin just look for my name i'm the only person only neil thubberon there and
47:18my books are on amazon so you can achieve any big goal with the seven p formula for success
47:24that's on amazon and my sales training book is also on amazon as well so that's the best way of
47:29finding me awesome thank you so much for joining us it's been a real pleasure thank you mason it's
47:34been great conversation thank you
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