Unlocking the Unfair Advantage in Business with Dr. Don Barden

Workforce Alchemy

Unlocking the Unfair Advantage in Business with Dr. Don Barden  In this full episode of The Mason Duchatschek Show, economist and leadership expert Dr. Don Barden unpacks the high-performance leadership strategies from his book The Perfect Plan.  From the "unfair advantage theory" to the emotional basis of decision-making, Barden explains how world-class leaders and sales professionals make better decisions, earn trust, and build relationships that deliver measurable results. If you want to influence behavior, increase engagement, and lead more effectively, this conversation is packed with insights you can’t afford to miss.  Key Takeaways  • Sales and leadership are fundamentally the same • Understanding is greater than knowledge • Relationships in business have a lifecycle—know when to move on • Emotional connection drives more decisions than logic • Use the platinum rule (not the golden one) to influence others • Understand how consumer behavior shifts by income level • Emotional recall creates deeper brand loyalty • Focus on fewer, clearer messages in your communication  Chapter Timestamps  00:00 – Introduction to Dr. Don Barden and His Work 02:45 – The Intersection of Sales and Leadership 05:34 – Understanding the Unfair Advantage Theory 08:24 – Maximizing Client Relationships 11:16 – The Decision-Making Process in Sales 14:15 – Understanding Consumer Behavior 16:55 – The Corporate Pyramid and Decision-Making 20:04 – Branding and Status in Business Decisions 20:58 – The ROI of Custom Clothing 22:42 – Understanding Decision-Making Processes 25:14 – The Emotional Aspect of Decision-Making 26:34 – The Flawed Decision-Making Process 29:04 – The Power of Emotional Connection 31:15 – Memorable Experiences and Emotional Recall 35:15 – Completing Relationships and Moving Forward  About the Guest  Dr. Don Barden is a globally recognized economist, speaker, and author of The Perfect Plan and Here Come the Girls. He works with Fortune 500 leaders to turn behavioral economics into practical strategies that grow influence, performance, and profitability.  Subscribe for More Insights Like This  Subscribe and never miss an episode filled with leadership lessons, workforce strategies, and business growth insights.  - https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist?sub_confirmation=1  Learn More About Workforce Alchemy  Want to become exponentially more valuable at work? Discover the free Workforce Alchemy Challenge.  ✔ Improve hiring ✔ Increase retention ✔ Minimize conflict ✔ Boost performance  Apply now: https://www.WorkforceAlchemy.com  Recommended Playlists  Full Podcast Episodes: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg  Workforce Strategy: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChxEhB1iyTbn7NcBO2SoaFA4  Shorts & Clips: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChyPNetFBDdCqflzmAwJTWdL  Follow Us on Social Media  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/

Transcript

00:00Hi, and welcome to the Mason Dukacek Show. I'm Mason. My guest today is Dr. Don Barden.

00:05He's an economist with a PhD in organizational leadership and a trusted advisor to billion-dollar

00:11companies and political leaders alike. He's led teams generating over a billion dollars annually

00:16and is known for challenging conventional thinking on leadership, culture, and sales.

00:21In his best-selling book, The Perfect Plan, Dr. Barden introduces the unfair advantage theory,

00:26a transformative framework that blends ancient strategy, neuroscience, and behavioral economics

00:32to increase your impact up to 95%. He doesn't just teach it, he's lived it. And today,

00:38we'll explore the ideas and concepts behind The Perfect Plan and how you can gain a true edge in

00:43business and beyond. Dr. Barden, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you, Mason. I really appreciate

00:48you, man. And before we get started in this, and thank you, I love The Perfect Plan. I love talking

00:52about it, but what I love more is your show, your efforts, and how you're leaning into an area that

00:57needs it the most, especially the workforce and HR and the consciousness of organizations.

01:03Outstanding, man. Keep it going. You are touching lives, and I appreciate you having me.

01:06It's fun for me. I look forward to it. And when I saw you on the calendar, I've been looking forward

01:11ever since we booked it. So... Hey, it's exciting. Thank you. Me too. So let's do this.

01:14All right. So let's get at it. What's the biggest lie people believe about sales,

01:20leadership, and communication? And why is it so dangerous?

01:23Wow. Those are... Wow. Wow. That's a... Man, you're throwing fastballs early.

01:26You're out swinging, man. I love it. Sales and leadership. Okay. Those are radically

01:31different things that live in the same volume, right? To be a great leader, you got to be a

01:34great salesperson. To be a great salesperson, you got to be a leader. But I think, honestly,

01:39the biggest lie in the social construct is the lack of honor that it's given. And seriously,

01:45think about that. People go, oh, he's a salesperson or she's a salesperson. It's like,

01:49they associate you with something that is intrusive. Yet here's the deal. Nothing. And

01:55this is something everybody remember. Nothing in history ever happened, good or bad. Nothing

02:00ever happened in history unless somebody sold somebody something. We wouldn't have the pyramids

02:06in Giza had somebody not sold the pharaohs on the idea of a cool tombstone. 10,000 years later or

02:12whatever is still there, 5,000 years. We wouldn't have this great country. And somebody sold somebody on

02:17the idea that, hey, it's going to be rough and there's going to be a little scrap in here. But

02:21I think we can do better on our own, right? So everything revolves around the concept of

02:27selling somebody on moving forward, selling somebody on the value. And I don't think that

02:32gets the honor that it should. Yet at the same time, I think it's a lie when people think that

02:37the best salesperson is the salesperson. The best salesperson in the organization is the leadership

02:41and the CEO, the C-suite, because they're selling the product. They're selling the conceptual concept

02:46around the culture. They're selling a future together, a dance that people are going to be

02:51doing. So leadership and sales are the same thing. But I think it deserves more honor, honestly,

02:57than what it gets. So I think we're lying.

02:58I think about a doctor. Honorable profession. A doctor is persuading or leading or selling

03:07someone who is not healthy. Lifestyle changes towards changing your diet, changing your exercise

03:13routines. And did I get sold on the idea of eating healthy and exercising? Yeah. But did it save your

03:20life? Yeah. So is that an honorable profession? Absolutely. I agree with you 100%.

03:25Yeah. Yeah. But it's still the greatest thing ever. It's what makes the world move high and low. And

03:30I'm talking about everything from the little deli on the corner to Fortune 100 companies. They're all

03:35the same. It's about human interaction, rating off value. And there's honor to that. And I wish more

03:41people saw that. So you say that your strategies can increase someone's impact by 95%. And I know

03:46that's a big claim. What's the secret behind it? Well, it's about understanding. We believe that

03:51understanding is more important than knowledge. And it's kind of funny. I was talking to somebody

03:56yesterday at a university and they didn't like that concept. And I was like, no, no, no. Think

04:00about this. If somebody just knows it and they dump it out of their short-term memory onto an exam or a

04:07paper or a book or a conversation, that's great. But there's a difference between knowing it and

04:12understanding it. And if you understand something, then you can adjust and you can adapt. You can overcome.

04:18You can do things a little bit differently than just, oh, I got to stay in these guardrails

04:23and do it because this is all I know. What we prefer is to know it with understanding and with

04:29the wisdom to apply it. And that's really what happens when we teach the perfect plan and we

04:34talk about it. If anybody just reads a book, that's fine. But the point of it was to help you

04:39understand it. And if people understand what they're doing, then you have a valve that just immediately

04:44appears in front of you that you can turn up and down at will. So if you want to grow 2X, 3X,

04:495X, 10X, fine, just turn the valve. But it'll only work if you understand it. So the perfect plan

04:54was a study of what the world's elite leaders do in sales and marketing and corporate leadership

05:00and political, all of it. What do they do? What's the commonality? And it starts with that mindset

05:05that they understand why it works. They understand why they're doing what they do. They're just not

05:11reading a textbook and sticking the bolts and the nuts together. They're getting it. The vibe,

05:17the frequency of it is different. So once you get to that point of wisdom and understanding,

05:22whatever you want to do, it's in front of you. It's just a valve that you turn up and down.

05:25And that's what the perfect plan revealed is a way to structure the obvious that you can

05:30understand what sort of the secret sauce is of these elite leaders and salespeople.

05:34What exactly is the unfair advantage theory and how does it change the game for leaders or salespeople?

05:40Yeah, it goes back to understanding. It's a great question. Everybody wants an unfair advantage

05:44and it's not unfair to be unfair. That's how things happen for a sports team or any politician

05:51or whatever. For them to win, they had to have something that was a little bit of an advantage.

05:57And the only person that thinks it's unfair is the person that you beat.

06:00Everybody else is like, oh, that's cool. Tell me. So it's kind of a play on words a little bit,

06:05but it does go back to that understanding. But what we learned is to understand it,

06:10it breaks down into three parts. And there was this unreal consistency amongst all these leaders

06:16that we interviewed. What are those three parts?

06:20The first part is an understanding of your relationship with anyone, anything. And this

06:26goes beyond work. I mean, it applies to your personal life as well. But the understanding is

06:31around a simple concept. And if you think about this, and I know everybody in your audience is

06:36different from HR to sales and leadership and whatever. But if you think about it, the first

06:41concept that we learned in there, we really press is based on a quote. The day you win a client is the

06:46day you begin to lose them. Think about that. The day you win a client is the day you begin to lose

06:52them. And what that means is that you're screwing up. It's that everything in life has a certain time

07:00that's allocated to your connection. That's it. And it's not going to be over. It's going to be

07:05complete. That's huge. Now, of course, every salesperson is going to screw up an account.

07:10That happens, right? That's okay. Every HR person hires a wrong person every now and then. Okay.

07:17It happens. Okay. But even when you do it right, and you've got the best connection, and you've got the

07:22best people, and you've got the best career, this too shall pass. You know, this relationship that

07:28you have that you're going to wrestle with for three, four, five, 10 years, whatever,

07:32whether it be a client or whatever comes, it's going to end. That's just the way it is. That

07:37company might get bought by another company. Their kid might get into business. They might go out of

07:43business. You might go out of business. Who knows? They just might find a better deal. But that

07:47relationship is going to complete itself at some point. And every one of these elite people understood

07:53that. And so then instead of looking at it sort of macabre, what you do is you say, okay,

07:58if I can hold on to this client for three years, four years, five years, what can I do to be so

08:04present with them that I can, if they ask for a 10% ROI because of our work, I want to give them 20.

08:10If they ask for everything to be in by Tuesday at noon, I want it there Monday by nine. You know,

08:15I want to exceed all their expectations. While we're in this dance, while we're here,

08:20before the relationship completes itself, what can I do to maximize it? It's not a cockiness. It's not

08:27a, oh, I've got a big book of business, or I've got all the clients I want, or I've got all the

08:32employees we want, or we're good. Dude, everything ends. Everything ends. And that's the first mindset

08:37shift is that you got this opportunity to steward a relationship. And what are you going to do to

08:45maximize it? Because it will end. So again, I tell people this, I might overstress it. I'm sorry,

08:49that is not macabre. That's smart. That's wise. That is the essence of understanding. So that's

08:56number one. That's where it starts. Well, I mean, what do you think about that? Have you run into

08:58that? Oh yeah. No, I agree. What's your second? The second is understanding the decision-making

09:03process. Understanding that people are not erratic. People are actually human beings, bipods,

09:10us walking around. We're actually very predictable. We're extraordinarily predictable. So we studied that

09:16and we said, okay, if we knew why people made the decisions they did, that in its essence is an

09:22unfair advantage. But you will get hit by a bolt of lightning if you try to do it with anything short

09:29of the highest level of integrity. So once you know these concepts, if you try to take advantage of

09:34somebody like a magic trick would, oh man, I wouldn't want to be around you. There's some Darwinism coming

09:39your way, right? But if you approach it with the highest level of ethics, you believe in the value

09:43transfer of what you're doing, you believe in your organization and hiring the right people,

09:47you're going to know why somebody can engage. And the short version of this is really simple.

09:52Society is like a pyramid that's broken into three parts. The base of the pyramid is the biggest,

09:57then the middle part of the pyramid, and then the very point up top. That's social structure. And you

10:01can look at it like upper class, middle class, lower class. That's fine. No judgment. That's just life.

10:06Okay. But a corporation is the same thing. You've got C-suite people, you've got middle managers,

10:11middle class, people with titles, basically is how you can easily tell it. And then the base of the

10:16corporate pyramid is just the hardworking people that get up every day and go to work, clock in,

10:19clock out. They want to feed their kids. They want to have a good life. They're the pulse of it,

10:24but they're the lower section of it, but they're the base. They're the consciousness. They're what

10:29holds people up. So we're looking at this part of the study and we spent a year and a year and a half

10:34on just the concept because it's hard. It's very hard to figure out why you're going to make a

10:38decision because you make too many decisions. Indecision processes change. And I told somebody

10:43this the other day, I hope your listeners like this, but if you look at today, what the number

10:48one thing a person does in the morning when they wake up, first thing they do is look at their alarm

10:54or touch the alarm or whatever and see the clock. But then you say, what's the first thing they do

10:58once they have cognitive ability? They're awake. And that has changed radically than what it was in

11:061990. So today, the first thing people do once they wake up and hit their alarm is exactly they

11:11look at their phone. You know what we did in 1990? We peed. We went to the bathroom. Okay. Now people

11:17have decided that, yeah, you still got to pee, but you're going to pee while you're walking in there

11:21with your phone and you're going to be in there with your phone. So we've added something to our

11:26decision-making process that became a formidable structure of our existence. Now that's hard to

11:33grasp, but that's real. That's universal. It's happening. I'm going to show you all the decisions

11:37you're making during the day. I'm going to piggyback on something you're saying. Okay. I'm a huge Tony

11:42Robbins fan. And we just talked about the difference between knowledge and wisdom and the ability to

11:49apply it. And he has ability. And of course, he attracts the top 1% of folks. So we're talking about

11:57the same elite level of minds, business minds, or personal developed minds, professional development,

12:02whatever. He said, people do things for one or two reasons to gain pleasure or avoid pain.

12:06And there's another gentleman of mine who he's, he's been somewhat of a mentor to me over the years.

12:10His name's Hank Epstein. And he's in Washington, Missouri. He runs a company called the Quality

12:15Coach. And we've had discussions about that. It's people are, when you talk about understanding

12:21their interpretation. You just said, what is their decision-making process? He said, people are

12:26meaning-making creatures. It's not, I have the knowledge of what's happening, but what does that

12:31mean to me? What that means to me at the bottom of that base level or in the middle of that level

12:36may be very different than what it means at the top of the pyramid. You're on it. You just figured it

12:40out. That's right. When you're talking to me, I'm getting what you're saying. Oh yeah. That makes total

12:44sense to me. Yeah. Everybody is approaching it from their perception and their persuasion

12:50around it. They're biased toward it. So we started looking at this and we said, wow,

12:55if you're trying to sell somebody a concept, like please come work here, or we want you part of our

13:00culture, or would you buy my product? The hardest thing to do in the first step, and I tell people

13:05this all the time, this is difficult, is you are understanding you are not the buyer. You're the

13:11sales. That's gold. That is absolutely gold. I can't, I've been guilty of that. There's been times

13:17where I would never do that. And I had a friend remind me, well, that's okay. Cause millions of

13:21other people would do that. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You can't. And here's why I always tell

13:27people this, the most misquoted that we've, our society misquotes 99% of all the great scriptural

13:33work that's out there from the past. I don't care where it came from. Things just morph over time and

13:38it gets misquoted. The biggest misquote is the golden rule, you know, do unto others as you'd have them

13:42doing to you. That's great in kindergarten when you're trying to teach somebody to play well in

13:46the sandbox, right? But as an adult, it is the most horrific concept ever. In other words,

13:52I'm saying, I'm going to treat you like I want to be treated. I don't care how you want to be

13:57treated. I'm going to treat you the way I want to be treated. That is selfish, right? And you're

14:01right. The platinum rule is actually closer to the Greek concept around the conversion of the wording

14:06is it shouldn't be doing to others. You have them doing to you. It's doing to others as you would

14:10have, as they would have you doing to them. Treat people the way they want to be treated,

14:14not the way you want to be treated, right? Yeah. So, but that's the hardest part in sales

14:18and leadership because you think I'm good. I'm in a good spot. Everybody's wanting to be this.

14:24Wrong. Wisdom is when you realize that other people have different perceptions, different bias,

14:29different everything. And you can self-reflect before you start and say, it doesn't matter where I am

14:33in life. I need to look at them and have a little bit of an unfair advantage and know what drives

14:39their decision-making process. So like the baseline people, hardworking people, they get up,

14:43they go to work every day. We were trying to figure out, again, with these tens of thousands

14:46of decisions you make every day. And the first decision in your life might've been buying bubble

14:51gum or a comic book when you were five to the day you die, you're making decisions. You're spending

14:56money. You're making decisions. So what we figured out was when it comes to deployment of resources like

15:01purchases, if we knew why somebody was going to buy into it, then we could figure out why it does

15:07this concept, this trait trickle down to all decisions. And good news is it does. So the idea

15:14that we were able to prove was it's not what you buy that tells us why you buy something. It's where

15:19you buy it that tells us why you're making the decisions. So you can sit there and say, well,

15:24I got an energy drink, right? Okay, great. Where did you buy that? That means more to me than the

15:29energy drink itself. Okay. So we started looking at that. Tell me why you feel that way. Huh?

15:33Tell me why you feel that way. Too many choices out there. Too many good choices. So we live in a

15:38position where as consumers, consumers of the workforce, consumers of products, consumers of

15:42whatever, we are now in a position where we have the ability to make multiple decisions around the

15:47same thing. We have choice, Red Bull or Monster, Coke or Pepsi. Guess what? They're both fine, right?

15:53You can't make a bad decision. You might have bias. You might be a Coca-Cola guy. I live in Atlanta.

15:58It's a sin not to drink Coca-Cola here, mostly because it's free most of the time. But you know,

16:02everybody likes Coca-Cola here. That's just the way it is. But it doesn't mean Pepsi is bad. No,

16:07Pepsi is great. So since we live in a place where people can make any decision and they're all good

16:12decisions, then that means we got to lean in and think differently about that process. So if you

16:17think about that baseline people on the pyramid or the corporate structure, you got to ask yourself,

16:21where do they go shopping and why do they go there? And whenever we teach this in open class and

16:26training, everybody gets that one right out of the gate. They say Walmart. I'm like, great. Now,

16:30this is where understanding comes in. If somebody in this part of the pyramid goes to Walmart or maybe

16:35Target or a Dollar General or whatever, the question is why? Why do they go there? I don't

16:41care if they bought an integer drink, Monster, Red Bull, Coke. I don't care what they bought there.

16:45Why did they go there? And the answer is uniform. It's price. They go there because of price,

16:52not quality, not quantity, but price. And if you look at it, there's two obvious reasons why.

16:58But the biggest is they're on fixed income, right? So they got to stretch it out. So they're

17:02trained to do that. Also, there's another concept that the impact of a generation takes six to

17:10overcome. So in other words, there's part of your parents in you. There's part of your grandparents

17:14in you. It's part of your great grandparents in you. It's just, it's passed down through cultural

17:18interaction. So a lot of people that are in that situation come from parents who are also in that

17:23situation. No judgment, nothing wrong with it, but you're taught from an early age, the importance of

17:26price. So if you're communicating with somebody, say from HR, and you're trying to hire somebody

17:31that's in that, they're going to think price, price, price. Now price in the hiring process is

17:36income, income, income. You know, what is my hourly rate? How much are you going to pay me

17:40to do it? That is all that that person cares about. That's going to drive their decision.

17:44Or is this energy drink on sale today? Okay, good. I'll buy it because I can stretch out my dollar a

17:50little bit further. Nothing wrong with that. No judgment, but that's what's driving their

17:54decision-making process. So if you're talking to them and you're trying to convince them to come

17:59work for you or to sell them your product, you better be laser focused on price because that's

18:03what's going to drive their decision-making process. That's just the way it is. But then you go up to

18:08the middle section of a corporation, of a pyramid, and these are people in society, it's the middle

18:13class. These are people who have a name or a title, director, manager, supervisor, vice president,

18:19everybody's a vice president, you know, vice president of this or that. What drives that group of

18:23people in their decision-making process? Well, same. Let's see, where do they buy their stuff?

18:27Where do they buy their clothes? Most of them go to places like Ralph Lauren, Lululemon, they drive

18:33Mercedes, they drive BMWs. Status and convenience, probably. Bingo. Well, status. It's all status.

18:40It's perception. And perception is translated in consumer products by brands. So it's keeping up

18:46with the Joneses is what it is. And in the corporate structure, it's very, very important that these

18:51people only buy brands and they will hide behind the brands. So somebody who's of a high quality

18:58might be sitting there saying, I really want to come work for you, but I also have an opportunity to go

19:02work for somebody else and they have a big brand. So they're going to lean that way. Or when that

19:07person's making decision-making processes and there's enormous data to support this, they'll see a better

19:12product at a lower cost. But instead of buying that, even a higher performing product, they will buy a

19:19branded product. And when we ask them why, and you dig into it, you do a little psychology therapy on

19:25them. What you see and what they tell you is, I spent more money to buy a brand for two reasons.

19:32One, I can attach myself to that brand. I look good.

19:35You don't have to apologize to defend that decision.

19:37Absolutely. But the other thing is when it goes wrong, you just go, I don't know what happened.

19:42It was Mercedes. It was IBM. It was Fidelity. It was whatever. And it totally deflects the

19:47decision-making process out of it. So they maintain their status. IBM used to say that,

19:52that no one's ever been fired for buying IBM. We might be more expensive. We might not perform

19:57as well as somebody else, but nobody's ever been fired. And the reason that's important is because

20:01IBM realized that the C-suite doesn't buy their products in a corporate environment and the lower

20:06status doesn't buy their product. It's made up of committees and middle managers. So IBM said,

20:11we're going to put all of our money and efforts into our brand. Our products are going to be good.

20:15And they are, they're fine. Are they the best? Questionable, right? But boy, do they outsell

20:20everybody else? Cause they built the brand, but they know who their buyer is. And then you get up

20:25to the pinnacle, the C-suite, the tip of the spear, upper class, the C-suite, whatever you want to

20:29call it. And again, there's no judgment here, but you say, well, where did they go buy their clothes

20:34or whatever? And nine out of 10 of them are going to say, well, it's custom. You know, I have custom

20:39custom. It's custom made for them. And then when I ask people, I'm like, why do you think they're

20:44wearing custom clothes? They always say, well, cause they can. Okay. Yeah, fine. I'll give you

20:49that. Okay. Well, it looks better. I'm like, really? Am I wearing custom clothes? You better

20:53say yes. And they all go, yeah, yeah. I'm like, can you tell? No, you can't tell. The reason people

20:59in this situation are buying custom clothes is not because of the price and it's not because they can.

21:06And it's not because it looks better because it doesn't. It looks kind of the same, but the reason

21:11brands don't mean anything to them. And the reason price doesn't mean anything to them is because

21:15their decision-making process is built on the return of investment ROI over the amount of time

21:21it takes me to do that. So if I have to do a project and I can do another project in the same

21:27amount of time, where am I going to get the maximum impact? Cause that's where I'm going to deploy

21:31my resources. So as simple as it is, the reason like this shirt, this guy's been making my shirts for

21:3730 something years, right? He comes in, lays out three or four bowls of cloth. I say, okay, that

21:41one, that one, that one measures me. He's gone in 10 minutes and three weeks. He comes in, all my

21:45shirts are perfectly hanging and they're ready to go. I don't have to think about it. So it takes me

21:4910 minutes to buy, buy my clothes for roughly the same price as it would be at Ralph Lauren a men's

21:55warehouse. So the price is off the table. But if I go to the mall and I live in Atlanta, so say it's

22:00half a mile to the mall or half an hour to drive to the mall or a store. And then I get there,

22:04it takes an hour to get fitted 30 minutes to get home. That's two hours and buying, you know,

22:09a shirt or some suits or something. But guess what? I don't have my shirts. I don't have my

22:13suits cause they have to alter it. So next week I go back for 30 minutes, spend another hour getting

22:17to come back. So by the time it's over, I got four hours in this, or I can spend 10 minutes on it,

22:23which is better to do. Then if you don't believe me, you think that's a privileged thing. It's not

22:28think about landscapers. Think about maid services. Think about dry cleaners. Landscapers are not

22:33selling you a pretty lawn. Dry cleaners are not selling you press shirts. Maid services are not

22:39selling you a clean house. They're selling you Saturday. They're saying you give me 50 bucks,

22:45I will clean your house and you get back Saturday. You're going to spend Saturday going hiking.

22:50You're going to spend, you got landscapers, same thing. You want to cut your grass and spend all day

22:54Saturday screwing around with this? You don't want to spend time with your kids. 50 bucks and you're

22:57with your kids. So they're selling the ROI over time. And so that's what drives all their

23:02decision-making processes. So what somebody has to do as a professional is say, if I'm in sales or I'm

23:08in leadership, or if I'm in HR, which is the pinnacle of leadership, if you ask me, but if you're looking

23:14at this and you're saying, okay, number one, I got to step out of myself here. I might be a brand person

23:19or I might be an ROI person, but who am I talking to? Where do they fit? How can I have a dialogue with

23:26them? That's nonjudgmental, but opens a path. So when it comes down to decision-making on their end,

23:32they see the respect that I've delivered because I've talked to them about their brand, our brand,

23:38the cohesiveness of it, how we work together, the dance, the walls. I've talked to them about the

23:42customer's response to our brand because I know it's a middle management. It's a vice president

23:47of something. I know what's going to drive their decision-making process and make it easier

23:51for them. The same way if you're dealing with somebody on the lower end, you don't go in there and talk

23:55about how it's going to make you look, keeping up with the Joneses. You don't talk to them about ROI

23:59over time. You're talking to them about price. And this is a price. And because we've got a great

24:04price, we're going to overdo this. We're going to exceed your expectations. It's going to be great.

24:08They're going to go, okay, that's good. But I just need the price. I need this to fit in the box.

24:12So you separate yourself from them, understanding, and then you realize how they're going to make their

24:19decision, understanding. And then you say, okay, I've got the wisdom to step out of myself

24:24and communicate them in a level of respect that treats them the way they want to be treated,

24:29not the way. That's a very good summary. And I love the way you brought that thing full circle.

24:34It's very, I don't know if you remember this or you saw it. It's a movie that came out about 20

24:38years ago and it's still kind of a cult classic office space. Oh, sure. Is that the one with the

24:43red stapler? Yes. Yes. Okay. I remember that. And that is a movie always serves as a reminder to me

24:51with the, with the platinum rule and thinking how what's in it for the, or Brian Tracy always used

24:57to say people's favorite radio station, WIFFM, you know, what's in it for me. Yeah. And I remember

25:02how Peter, the character working for this company is sitting in the office talking to consultants and

25:09they're talking about productivity and analyzing how to make the company more money. And he's just

25:13sitting there, doesn't care. And he literally tells them, and he knows that they're looking at

25:17people to fire. And he literally tells them, he goes, it's not that I'm lazy. I just don't care.

25:21Yeah. If I bust my rear end and I ship, we ship out 10 more units, I'm not going to see another dime

25:27for this. Yeah. But if there's a mistake or something goes wrong and I'm, I got eight bosses,

25:31I'm going to hear about eight times. And that's my only real motivation is to get hassled.

25:35That or the fear of losing my job, but the fear of losing your job will only make you work hard

25:39enough not to get fired. Yeah. And that is permanently inscribed in my mind about what's

25:44in it for me. Oh, absolutely. And if the person looks at this and says, do I really care? Am I

25:48going to see any benefits of this? Yeah. Saving the company money. But oh, no, no. If there's one

25:56little problem, I'm going to get hassled and heckled and it might affect my status. It might affect my

26:00credibility. I'm not willing to take the rest. I'm not going to do it. Absolutely. Everything you're

26:04saying kind of comes full circle to me with, with, with that example. I look for going into

26:09that detail. No, that's great. Mason. I appreciate what you're saying. And this is behavioral economics

26:13one-on-one is incentives drive behaviors. So you've got to know what the incentive is to price. Cause

26:18I just got to feed my kids, man. I got to make sure I got enough money to buy a piece on a Friday

26:22night. Perception, you know, what people think about me or is it just deployment of resources

26:27where it's just buckets and I will pick whatever bucket I can maximize. That's not greedy.

26:32It's their job. Right. But what's interesting, you said about office space, this actually goes

26:36to the next part. So there's a little side dribble piece to this. One thing we learned about the

26:40decision-making process, and this is very important for people when you're, you're talking to them

26:44from a leadership, HR, whoever, when you're talking to people, this is really cool. A decision-making

26:49process is flawed on paper, but it works in our cognitive thing. If you look at how we write

26:56things out on paper, especially the legal system is based on evidence plus reasoning equals a decision.

27:01In other words, you're going to take the evidence and you're going to take the reason or the motive

27:05and you're going to equally weigh them out. And you're going to make a decision. Great on paper,

27:09terrible in real life. Cause we don't equally weigh out anything. We're all by it, right?

27:13So we looked at this and we said, what is the real application of this? Now that we understand

27:18the process and it's not evidence plus reasoning equals conclusion. It's, it's the facts plus your

27:25emotion equal the decision. And it's certainly not 50 50. So we went back and we studied this and we

27:31looked at people and we said, again, Red Bull or monster. You can't make a bad decision.

27:35All these things that are out there, Mercedes, BMW, Chevy Ford, they're fine. What do you want? And

27:41why do you want it? And we realized that 85% of a decision is based on the person's emotional

27:47attachment to it. Only 15% are based on the facts. So what happens is when a leader goes in and they

27:54start doing a verbal vomit and telling you all this data, you're, you're crushing out the decision-making

28:00process that allows for emotion. And then what they do is they give it. Can you give an example of

28:05one that's, can you give me a scenario or example of both situations for a matter of contrast for the

28:11audience? Absolutely. So if you go in there, like what we learned was that the human brain, when you're

28:16speaking English, English is important here. When you're speaking English, a person can only remember

28:21three things or less. If you're having a conversation with somebody and you add a fourth thing to it,

28:26like, here's four things I want to talk about. You actually have a 25% fail rate. If you have a fifth

28:31thing, 50% fail rate. If you talk to somebody about six things, you have a 100% fail rate. And the reason why

28:37is because the facts got bigger than the emotion. The facts need to be at 15%. The emotions are going to be

28:44at 85%. If you overload it and start throwing more data at somebody on this, they're going to look at

28:50you and go, sounds right, but I'm a little, man, you've got a lot coming at me now. And the emotion

28:56goes from excitement to a little bit of anxiety. Like I'm losing you. I'm not keeping time.

29:01The confused customer always says no. Russell Bunsen.

29:03Exactly right. So what we learned is if they keep it to three things or less, you've got a hundred percent.

29:08So we tell people, if you really want to talk to somebody about four or five things,

29:12have another appointment, have another email, send another email, do something differently.

29:16But think about this. If somebody comes in and says, Hey, you know, Mason, I'm really excited to

29:20be with you. I'm just so grateful for this. You've been doing amazing work. Hey, I got about a dozen

29:24things I need to go over there with you in the next five minutes. You got, you got five minutes.

29:28You're going to roll your eyes and go, Oh God, a dozen. But if I said, Hey Mason, I got a lot of stuff

29:32to talk about. These two or three things are real important to me right now. Can we spend a second on this?

29:36And I'll come back and do the stuff in the future. Sure. You know, why not? But here's,

29:41what's really interesting about that. If you allow emotions to drive it for the person,

29:47and I'm not talking about rah, rah, get them all. You got to have a good product. If you don't have

29:51the right product and the right thing, it's not going to work. So people are coming back and say,

29:54well, wait a minute. Why is it? Is the consumer just dumb? Is the employee an idiot for just only

29:59wanting 15% of the data? And the answer is absolutely not. They are so smart. What they're saying to you is

30:05I only need 15% of the data to know that you know. So if I'm going to follow you, if I'm going to buy

30:13this product, if I'm going to come work for your company, I want to know that you know, and that

30:17only takes 15%. The rest of it is, and Oh, by the way, I've got good choices in front of me. So if I'm

30:24going to come with you, I really want to like you. I really want to have an emotional connection to you,

30:28the mission, the culture, the people, whatever it is. I've got to feel good about this because you know

30:34what I can buy a monster or I can buy a Celsius or I got choices, you know, I can do it. So that's it.

30:40So they're not saying that 15% is, is a passive for functionary thing. What they're saying is I only

30:48need 15% to validate that, you know, what you're talking about. And I want to outsource success to

30:55you on this because I want to come work for you, but I really, really want to like you. But, but here's where it

31:00is really cool. You take it one step forward and you say, okay, what really happens in that

31:05emotional connection? How powerful is it? It's so powerful, Mason, that when somebody leaves you,

31:12so you just sat there and this is going to happen today on this podcast, this will happen. When

31:15somebody hangs up from this or stops watching this podcast, when it, when it broadcasts, if we go back

31:20to them 10 minutes later and say, Hey, what did Don and Mason talk about? They're only going to be able

31:25to remember 6% of it. That's it. That is where our brain caps out. So 10 minutes after a communication

31:32effort has occurred, people can only recall 6% of what was said, but here's the big, but they can

31:38remember a hundred percent about how they felt about you during that. And we always joke women can

31:43remember a hundred percent forever plus eternity. So you gotta be really careful. Okay. When you're,

31:48you're selling to women, but I'm joking and not, but so think about this. You're saying to them,

31:53I can't remember what you said, but I got enough in there to know that I can outsource success to

31:58you, but I'm going to remember forever how I feel about it. It's funny. You say that. Cause

32:02I had a Shep Hyken is a friend of mine and he's a bestselling author and professional speaker on

32:08customer service. And he had a cartoon on his social media today. And it had a picture of a

32:15couple that went to see a band perform. And it's like, we've seen this band perform and they're back to

32:20see it again. They know the songs, they know what's going to happen, but they remember the

32:25feeling of what it was like the first time they saw it. And they want that feeling again. And I'm

32:28like, that's true. Oh yeah. Oh, it's a hundred percent. And you know what else is true? Phil,

32:33I think it's Rosenbaum. He was the creator of the, everyone loves Raymond series. And for the past

32:39eight years, he's had a series on Netflix called somebody feed Phil. Great show. If he might,

32:44it's like Anthony Bourdain. Nice. Okay. So Anthony was great. I love the guy. He was the epitome of

32:51cool, but man, he was edgy. Phil goes in there exact same model, but everybody's happy. He's going

32:58to these restaurants that are cool and happy and he brings people together. And it's just a wonderful

33:03show all over the world. And you see people coming together over food and enjoying company and sharing

33:09conversations, but I got to hear him lecture a live last year. And he said something about this

33:15topic that blew my mind. I mean, like really made me sit back and think. And what he said was

33:20somebody had asked him a question of like, what's your favorite restaurant? How often do you go back?

33:24And he said, well, when I go back to a restaurant, it's out of convenience because it's next door or

33:28whatever. When I'm going out as many great restaurants around the world as I've been to, I try not to go back.

33:35And they said, well, why is that? And he said, cause lightning doesn't strike twice.

33:39He said, when you're enjoying a wonderful meal with somebody, when you're really into the moment

33:44and you think, oh my God, I could do this every night. No, you can't because it's not going to be

33:49the same emotions of the day. It's not going to be the same weather. It's not going to be the same

33:53feeling you had when you were walking to the restaurant. All these things that are going on to make that

33:58experience what it is, is unique to that moment and that moment alone. He said, so you're better off

34:04if you go back to Madrid and you say, well, I was here last year and I had this great restaurant.

34:08I don't go do it. He goes, no, no, no. Walk down some street and find something else because you're

34:13going to have another new emotional experience. And if you think about that, what you're doing is

34:17saying, I remember that emotional moment from the past. I want to go back and feel that again.

34:23But then you get there and it's not, you know, why is it not? Cause all the other stuff didn't

34:27happen today that brought that emotion together. But the interesting thing is you're proving to

34:31yourself. I remember the emotion. Now, if you say, well, when you were here a year ago,

34:35what did you eat? What'd you order? Oh gee, I don't know. But you just said that was the

34:39greatest meal ever. And that was your favorite restaurant. And you don't remember what you

34:42ordered. No, that's the 6%, right? But they're driven by the emotion. They're driven by the

34:48feeling of, I want that again. And what great wisdom teaches us is that in leadership, you're

34:54going to get that feeling again, but it's not going to be at that place. It's going to be at

34:58something new. So go back to what I said earlier, the day you win a client, the day you begin to lose

35:01them. That's why it's so important to keep getting new clients. This is why it's so important to have

35:07your workforce pipeline packed. So when somebody leaves you and that's okay, cheer for them,

35:13hope for them to go out there and say, this is the best career move I've ever made. And I made it

35:18because I was working with you. And this is what my family and I've been looking for. Hey man,

35:22that's a victory lap. Do a party for that person. But in the years come, you're going to look back at

35:28your relationship with that person. You'll remember how you felt. You're not going to remember the

35:31day-to-day stuff and to think that, okay, I'm going to hire that person back and it's going

35:35to be the same as it was before. No, it's not. And the reason why is because the relationship

35:40is complete. So if you can start building on this, you see where this is going, you realize

35:44that everything comes to an end, but it's not over. It's just, you know what? It's funny you say

35:49that because you know what I'm sitting here, like I'm absorbing everything that you're telling me.

35:53And I'm thinking of guys like Stephen Covey saying, begin with the end in mind.

35:57Yeah. And, and, and, you know, you know, this is how, if that's the end, how can I maximize what

36:02decisions can I make in, and, and how can I be cognizant of the people that I'm doing business

36:08with at the different levels to make better decisions faster and not trip over the same

36:13rocks. Right. It's really getting home to me. And I think about how you talked about the 6%,

36:18like the things that I'm going to take away from this conversation, it is a great solid reminder

36:23to me of things that, that I've learned. Like there was a guy's name is Mike Panagio and he

36:28was president of a company out of Daytona, Florida called direct marketing express. And he gave me a

36:32quote that I've never forgotten. He goes, think of yourself as the customer. Yeah. It's a short

36:36version of, of the platinum rule, I guess, if you will. Oh yeah. Why would you buy, would you buy from

36:41yourself? That's a great question. It's well, you should think of yourself as a customer. Think like

36:45them, like they want to be, to buy. I just, this, this conversation has been very helpful to me.

36:51And I hope that is as helpful to the other listeners. And I'm certain, and I'm betting we

36:56could talk about this topic literally all day. And I'm going to invite you to come back on and

37:00hit part two of this. Yeah. People that want to know more, like that have that feeling right now

37:06that, Hey, I've learned something from Dr. Barton. I, I have a, I am going to look at life and business

37:12and leadership through new filters, and I'm going to make better decisions faster. I'm going to be aware

37:16of the things that I might've forgotten before. And I'm going to be better off. And my organization is

37:21going to be better off because of it. How do those people interact with you? Find out more

37:25about your, your, your perfect plan and your book. How do, what's the best way for them to connect with

37:28you? Sure. I, and thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I mean, that's really what our

37:33mission in life is, is going out and helping people believe in a better tomorrow. And our work is not

37:39raw, raw. I mean, I think people are inspired and they feel good. And I love Tony, but man, you talk about

37:44Tony Robbins and I've spoken at his conferences before. When you leave there, man, you're really are

37:49knocking down walls and stuff. But the next day you wake up. You're walking over hot coals with

37:53bare feet. Oh yeah. Not smart, but it's cool. It's worth it. You know, it's neat. You prove you

37:58can do it. But I guess my point is, is that's a warm bath, you know, and what the interesting thing

38:04about those types of events and Tony's great. He's actually said this, his job is to give you a warm

38:09bath and to teach you how to give yourself a bath. But tomorrow you got to do it on your own.

38:13You know, he's not going to be there. He's not going to get you pumped up. So you look back at these

38:17little tidbits of communication and things with him. And you're like, okay, I remember that. I

38:21remember that. I remember that. And you just did it to 6%. And, and every day you went, the day you

38:25went across, they began to lose them. All those little things get embedded in there. That 6% and

38:31you go out there and do it. The difference in what we do is we're more hands-on. Sometimes we're hands-on

38:36for a month, two months, three months, but not very long. My objective is to get fired. And that sounds

38:41weird, but it's like going back to university. You're supposed to graduate, you know? So when

38:46most of our clients, I'd say 99% of them, we get to a point after a few months where I go to them and

38:51say, our relationship is complete. You know, we've gotten you to where you need to go. Now in the

38:56future, if you need something, give me a call, but you're free, man. Go out there and just rock this

39:01thing. Turn that valve up and down at will. So we work- And they know how to do it because you've

39:05not just given them knowledge, you've actually taught them how to use it. Yes, they understand it.

39:10That's the key to everything. So if somebody reaches out, the best way to do it is on LinkedIn. You can go to

39:14the website, donbardon.com, but really go to the LinkedIn. And here's what I'd love for anybody to

39:19do. If you send me a note and say, Hey, I saw you on Mason's podcast. I love Mason. He's the greatest

39:24guy ever. You have to say that, or I'm not going to do this. So if somebody does that and says, Hey,

39:28I would love a free copy of your book. I will send somebody a free e-copy of the book. And what I

39:33suggest is read it. A lot of times people can read this and find things in the book and go do it

39:38yourself. So I'm going to give that to you and wish you the best of luck. You know, you're going to find

39:43things in there that you can absolutely apply. If the situation requires more interaction,

39:47even for a day, for a month, a week or whatever, give me a call, you know, and say, Hey, let's have

39:53a conversation about this. I want to see if there's something that we can do together. And we work with

39:58everyone from little local delis to fortune 50 companies who are coming in and saying, we got to

40:05do this. And the reason we do it, and this is sort of a trade secret. There's no difference. None.

40:09If you're the local deli, you're going through the same heartache as Apple computer is. Trust me,

40:15there's a bigger and more often, but it's the same thing. Business hasn't changed in 10,000 years.

40:21And it's just the ability to transfer value with integrity, the certain amount of guardrails and

40:26guidelines, understanding that it's going to complete itself at some point, but you're constantly

40:31innovative and thinking about new things, which means you're surrounding yourself with the best

40:35employees. You're giving people credit for who they are. Again, the platinum rule, treat people

40:40the way they want to be treated. And I'm just a big believer, Mason. If you go through life committed

40:43to this and you believe in it. And the third thing, which we don't have time to do, but they'll get it

40:48from the book talks about the communication methodology of what great leaders do, the consistency

40:53of it and why they do it. If you start doing that alone, you'll double your business or whatever

41:00KPI or metric that you're trying to measure. I guarantee you it would double. And it's not

41:05because it's some super secret that's being unlocked. It's an understanding of structuring

41:11the obvious. And there's always one lever. There's always one little move that somebody

41:17could make that frees them to do stuff in, you know, just read it yourself and see. And if you need

41:24more help, give us a call. But if you say that you love Mason and your show, you get a free copy.

41:29How's that? Cool. That's a deal. Thank you so much. And we'll have you on again soon.

41:33I look forward to it. Thank you for what you're doing. Keep doing it. You're amazing.

41:36It's a pleasure.

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