- 4 days ago
Why do some leaders consistently get results while others are stuck chasing them?
In this episode of the Mason Duchatschek Show, leadership expert John Dario reveals the real reason execution breaks down inside organizations and what high-performing leaders do differently.
If you are a business owner, CEO, or team leader frustrated by missed expectations, lack of accountability, or constant communication breakdowns, this episode will challenge your approach to leadership and give you practical tools to fix it.
This is not about working harder. It is about leading smarter, following up consistently, and building a culture where results are expected and delivered.
What You Will Learn
• Why leadership is ultimately about driving aligned execution
• The hidden cost of poor communication in organizations
• How follow-up becomes your most powerful leadership advantage
• Why most teams default to the path of least resistance
• The critical difference between intensity and consistency
• How to enforce accountability without micromanaging
• The leadership mistake of assuming your team already understands
• How small behavior shifts create massive cultural change
Key Moments
00:00 Introduction to Leadership Challenges
02:22 Communication Breakdowns in Organizations
04:52 Why Follow-Up Drives Execution
07:42 Signs Your Team Has Execution Problems
10:38 Consistency vs Intensity in Leadership
13:09 Leadership and Execution Explained Simply
15:38 Training Teams to Follow Through
18:20 Balancing Confidence and Challenge
20:46 Common Execution Mistakes
23:27 How to Shift Culture Through Leadership
26:06 Final Advice for Leaders
Why This Matters
Execution is the gap between vision and results.
If your team is not following through, the problem is not just your people. It is the systems, expectations, and leadership behaviors shaping their performance.
Master this, and you create a culture where accountability is normal, follow-up is expected, and results become predictable.
Subscribe for More Leadership and Business Insights
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
Watch More Episodes
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Connect with Mason
Website: https://masonduchatschek.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonduchatschek/
Keywords
leadership execution, accountability in leadership, business leadership strategies, CEO leadership skills, team accountability systems, leadership communication, organizational performance, business execution strategy, management accountability, leadership development for executives
In this episode of the Mason Duchatschek Show, leadership expert John Dario reveals the real reason execution breaks down inside organizations and what high-performing leaders do differently.
If you are a business owner, CEO, or team leader frustrated by missed expectations, lack of accountability, or constant communication breakdowns, this episode will challenge your approach to leadership and give you practical tools to fix it.
This is not about working harder. It is about leading smarter, following up consistently, and building a culture where results are expected and delivered.
What You Will Learn
• Why leadership is ultimately about driving aligned execution
• The hidden cost of poor communication in organizations
• How follow-up becomes your most powerful leadership advantage
• Why most teams default to the path of least resistance
• The critical difference between intensity and consistency
• How to enforce accountability without micromanaging
• The leadership mistake of assuming your team already understands
• How small behavior shifts create massive cultural change
Key Moments
00:00 Introduction to Leadership Challenges
02:22 Communication Breakdowns in Organizations
04:52 Why Follow-Up Drives Execution
07:42 Signs Your Team Has Execution Problems
10:38 Consistency vs Intensity in Leadership
13:09 Leadership and Execution Explained Simply
15:38 Training Teams to Follow Through
18:20 Balancing Confidence and Challenge
20:46 Common Execution Mistakes
23:27 How to Shift Culture Through Leadership
26:06 Final Advice for Leaders
Why This Matters
Execution is the gap between vision and results.
If your team is not following through, the problem is not just your people. It is the systems, expectations, and leadership behaviors shaping their performance.
Master this, and you create a culture where accountability is normal, follow-up is expected, and results become predictable.
Subscribe for More Leadership and Business Insights
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
Watch More Episodes
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg
Connect With Workforce Alchemy
Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/WorkforceAlchemy
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist
Connect with Mason
Website: https://masonduchatschek.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonduchatschek/
Keywords
leadership execution, accountability in leadership, business leadership strategies, CEO leadership skills, team accountability systems, leadership communication, organizational performance, business execution strategy, management accountability, leadership development for executives
Category
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LifestyleTranscript
00:05Welcome to the Mason Dukachek Show.
00:07This episode is brought to you by Workforce Alchemy,
00:11helping leaders improve hiring, engagement, and retention
00:14while uncovering people-related profit leaks
00:17hidden in everyday operations.
00:19Today's guest is John Dario,
00:22a seasoned executive, leadership advisor,
00:25and author of AIM,
00:26How Managers Get Radically Reliable Results.
00:31John has spent more than 30 years leading and advising teams
00:35at organizations like Macy's, Gap, and Bank of America,
00:39helping leaders turn strategy into consistent execution.
00:43His work centers on one critical question
00:47most organizations struggle with.
00:50How do you get people to do what they're going to do every time?
00:55But John, welcome to the show.
00:56Thank you very much, Mason.
00:58I'm very glad to be here and looking forward to this conversation.
01:01So you've been inside some very large organizations.
01:05Can you take us inside a moment
01:08when a leadership team thought things were under control,
01:11but you could see cracks forming before results showed it?
01:15Jeez, I could spend three hours telling you
01:17about those types of situations.
01:19In some of these large companies,
01:21whether it's Macy's or Gap or Bank of America or TravelX,
01:24it happens all the time.
01:26Leaders communicate vision or communicate direction,
01:29and it just doesn't translate to the front lines.
01:32And I can remember one very, very specific example from my Gap days
01:36when the CEO visited my store,
01:39and it was the first time he had been in stores
01:41since a new product line had rolled out,
01:44a new season product line.
01:45And he saw it in the store and was shocked.
01:49It had been a huge investment from the buying line,
01:52and it was exactly opposite of what he was expecting.
01:55He had been in Milan,
01:56and he had given direction to the buying team
01:59to make an investment in Garmin dyed knit programs
02:04for the women's season.
02:07And as it turns out, they did so,
02:09but they did it in pastel colors,
02:10and he was expecting it to be in bright colors.
02:12And it was a complete disaster.
02:15And it was a perfect example
02:17of how an extremely talented CEO and merchant
02:21ended up with a result in the front lines
02:24that wasn't what he anticipated
02:26simply because communication broke down
02:28somewhere along the way.
02:29What happened next?
02:34I wasn't privy to some of the conversations
02:36that happened back in San Francisco.
02:38I'm guessing some of those conversations
02:39weren't very pleasant,
02:40but I mean, the actual next
02:43was that a lot of that stuff got marked down,
02:45and the company ended up losing some money
02:47on that particular program.
02:50But I guess the reality is
02:52that a lesson was learned by all
02:54that there had to be more questions asked,
02:56more confirmations made,
02:58and I'm not aware of that mistake
03:00getting repeated exactly the same way.
03:02Early in your career,
03:03what was a leadership failure or near miss
03:06that permanently changed
03:08how you think about follow-through?
03:11Yeah, great question.
03:13A story that is permanently ingrained in my mind.
03:16I was running a small regional sporting goods store.
03:19I had run a couple of other stores
03:21and had done very well.
03:22They were much smaller stores,
03:23and I was working my butt off hours every day,
03:27and I was doing it all myself,
03:28and I got promoted to a larger store.
03:31And the pieces weren't coming together
03:34quite the same way.
03:35I had a little routine
03:37where I walked every department manager's department
03:39on Mondays,
03:40and we made a list of everything
03:41that had to be done by Friday
03:43for the weekend business.
03:45And I'd walk every Friday,
03:46and stuff wasn't done.
03:48And I was getting very upset,
03:50and I couldn't understand it.
03:51And everybody, all six department supervisors
03:54had what sounded like legitimate excuses,
03:56but I really wasn't buying it.
03:58And so I decided that I walked their departments
04:02on Monday morning,
04:03and I came out right after the lunch rush.
04:06Tuesday, or Monday at 2 o'clock,
04:08walked again,
04:09and nobody had anything done,
04:10and I was mad.
04:11So I did the same thing on Tuesday,
04:132 o'clock,
04:14nobody had anything done.
04:16And Wednesday,
04:16I walk at 2 o'clock,
04:18and the first couple of departments,
04:19nobody had anything done,
04:20and I was in a horrible mood.
04:22And then I see Regina coming,
04:24prancing toward me.
04:25Regina was the department supervisor
04:26in charge of the fashion department,
04:28and she's got a big smile on her face.
04:30And you guessed it,
04:31every single thing on her list
04:32was done perfectly.
04:33And I just looked at her,
04:34I'm like,
04:35tears in my eyes,
04:36I was so happy.
04:37And I said,
04:37Regina, what happened?
04:39And she said,
04:40John,
04:40you came out on Monday at 2 o'clock,
04:42I didn't have anything done.
04:43You came out Tuesday at 2 o'clock,
04:44I didn't have anything done.
04:46I figure you're probably
04:47going to come out Wednesday
04:48at 2 o'clock,
04:49and I didn't want to disappoint you.
04:50And the message to me was,
04:52Regina wanted to be successful.
04:54And as it turns out,
04:55all the department supervisors
04:57wanted to be successful.
04:58They just needed me
04:59to be there with them.
05:00They needed me to be there
05:02to, first of all,
05:03to motivate them
05:04to get it done.
05:05They had to know
05:06what was important to me.
05:07And by spending my time
05:09following up
05:10and relentlessly following up,
05:12I demonstrated
05:12what was important to them.
05:14But they also needed my help
05:15in removing some obstacles
05:16and so on
05:17to help them be successful.
05:18You know,
05:18they were facing obstacles
05:19including customer traffic
05:21and everything else.
05:22And that, to me,
05:24was the turning point
05:26in terms of
05:27how I viewed my role
05:28and how I viewed follow-up
05:30and how critical follow-up
05:31is to helping the team succeed.
05:34So when you walk
05:35into a business
05:36for the first time,
05:37what's one subtle sign
05:38that tells you
05:39that executions
05:39can be a problem
05:40even before anyone
05:41says it out loud?
05:43I mean,
05:44first of all,
05:44you can generally see it
05:46in kind of the activity
05:47of the people
05:48and you can also see it
05:49in the language
05:50that's being used
05:52or not being used.
05:53I think generally
05:54an organization
05:55that is achieving success
05:57in a consistent
05:58and reliable way
05:59is operating
05:59off of a very clear
06:01set of action lists.
06:02They have an action list
06:05in hand all the time,
06:07in hand if it's on paper
06:08or on an electronic device
06:10or whatever,
06:10but everybody knows
06:12what they're working on
06:13and what the priorities are.
06:14And in an organization,
06:16if people aren't clear
06:17on what their priorities are
06:18or aren't clear
06:19on exactly what their mission
06:21for the day
06:22or for the hour
06:23or for the week is,
06:24then that's a recipe
06:26to build sustainable results.
06:29For those who are listening,
06:32you dropped
06:33some very important
06:36bits of information
06:37and you talked about
06:39what I've heard you say
06:40just so far
06:41is that you inspected
06:43what you expected.
06:44You went out and checked
06:45and not just once,
06:46but again.
06:48Correct.
06:48And two,
06:49you had checklists
06:50and things that were
06:51clearly needed
06:52to be done in order
06:53and that makes me reflect
06:54on a time
06:55I was a brand new
06:56second lieutenant
06:57in the Missouri Army,
06:59National Guard
07:00right out of college
07:01and my job
07:02was a platoon leader
07:03and we had this thing
07:03called PMCS,
07:04Preventive Maintenance
07:05and Check Systems
07:06or whatever.
07:07Ultimately,
07:07I was responsible
07:09to make sure
07:09that our vehicles
07:10were battle ready
07:13and we had
07:14a maintenance schedule,
07:16as you say,
07:16a checklist
07:17that needed to be
07:18performed every drill.
07:20Some things were
07:21checked every month,
07:22some things were
07:22checked once a quarter,
07:23some things were
07:24checked every year,
07:24but there was
07:25this list
07:26of exactly
07:26what to do
07:27and what order
07:27it needed to be done.
07:30The training
07:30that I received
07:31in college,
07:32the ROTC,
07:32so you have to
07:33inspect what you expect
07:34and lead by example
07:35and all those
07:35other things.
07:35So I wasn't afraid
07:36to crawl under
07:37a vehicle
07:38and go to,
07:39if there's 20
07:40different points
07:40on a checklist,
07:41I would crawl under
07:42and maybe go to
07:4213 and 17,
07:456 and post a little
07:46post note under there
07:47saying,
07:47hey,
07:48when you get this note,
07:49bring it back
07:49to lieutenant.
07:50And then I would
07:52simply go
07:52and I would ask
07:53the platoon sergeant
07:54if PMCS had been
07:55done on the vehicles
07:56and he'd say,
07:57let me check,
07:58let me check.
07:58And of course,
07:59he would ask
07:59the squad leader,
08:00squad leader,
08:00ask the team leader,
08:01team leader,
08:01ask the private
08:02who was supposed
08:02to do it,
08:03did he do it?
08:03And when I got to,
08:04yeah,
08:04it's all been
08:05taken care of,
08:07my question
08:07to the platoon sergeant
08:08would be,
08:08are you sure?
08:10And he'd be,
08:11and of course,
08:11then he would
08:12raise his eyebrows
08:12and what do you mean?
08:13I said,
08:14just go ask
08:15squad leader
08:15if he's got
08:16anything for me.
08:18And if the answer
08:19was no,
08:20then I would have
08:20the platoon sergeant
08:24perform PMCS
08:26and say,
08:27sergeant,
08:27I think you need
08:28to show these guys
08:29exactly how it needs
08:30to be done.
08:31And when the platoon sergeant
08:32walked them through,
08:33which was not his job,
08:34it was,
08:35then he found the notes
08:37and he automatically knew,
08:39hey,
08:39it had been,
08:40not been done
08:41and that's why
08:42he was doing it.
08:43So,
08:44I'll give you one guess
08:45how many times
08:45my platoon sergeant
08:47had to perform PMCS
08:48on a vehicle
08:49and do the private's job.
08:50Not many.
08:51After that moment,
08:52zero.
08:53And it wasn't like
08:54I was being a jerk about it.
08:55It was,
08:56hey,
08:56this is a responsibility
08:57and I'm going to check
08:58and I'm going to follow up
08:59and you need to make sure
08:59that when I ask you a question
09:01that you've done your work
09:02and you,
09:02and if the answer is no,
09:04then it's okay.
09:05But this,
09:07the,
09:07the,
09:08the,
09:08just like you walked around
09:09and checked,
09:11that was my way
09:11of doing the same thing
09:12and I did have a list
09:13and,
09:14and there wasn't animosity
09:15and it wasn't like
09:16I was being disrespectful.
09:17I'm just like,
09:17look,
09:17I'm responsible
09:18and if you say
09:19something's done,
09:20I need to know that it is
09:21and this is my means
09:22of checking
09:22and that sent a message
09:24from,
09:24to the rest of the guys,
09:27don't lie to the lieutenant.
09:28He's going to check.
09:30I love that story.
09:31I think it's,
09:32it's,
09:32it's,
09:33it's a proactive way
09:34of following up actually,
09:36which is,
09:36which is kind of
09:37an oxymoron,
09:38I guess,
09:38but it's,
09:39it's a brilliant,
09:40it's a brilliant solution
09:41to a common problem
09:43of getting teams
09:44to execute
09:45every step
09:46of the,
09:46of the process.
09:47Well,
09:48and in leadership terms,
09:49it showed them
09:49that I wasn't afraid
09:50to crawl under a machine
09:51and get greasy
09:51and dirty either.
09:52Sure.
09:53And I would never ask
09:54anything of them
09:54that I wouldn't do myself.
09:56Makes sense.
09:58So,
09:58can you share a story
09:59of a team
10:00that maybe talked
10:01a great game in meetings,
10:03but nothing really
10:04changed afterward?
10:05What was really happening
10:06beneath the surface
10:07in your opinion?
10:08Um,
10:09yeah,
10:09I,
10:10um,
10:11I've got a funny story
10:12from,
10:12from my Bank of America days.
10:14Um,
10:14I had,
10:15you know,
10:15we had a,
10:16we had a routine
10:17where there were,
10:18there were regular communications
10:20that came from headquarters,
10:21um,
10:21and from the,
10:22from the zone offices.
10:23And,
10:24and we had a process
10:25whereby those,
10:26those communications
10:27were printed out
10:28and put in a binder,
10:29um,
10:30a communications binder
10:31and every employee
10:32of the branch
10:33every day
10:34when they reported
10:34for their shift
10:36had to go
10:37and,
10:37and read the communications
10:39in the binder
10:40before they started working.
10:41And that was essentially
10:43the way to,
10:44to get them to be on top
10:45of what the newest,
10:46newest communications were.
10:47I had a particular branch
10:49that was consistently
10:50not on top
10:51of the new product knowledge
10:53or they,
10:53they were not,
10:54uh,
10:54they were not executing
10:55the new,
10:56the new operational directions.
10:57And so I began to question
10:59whether they were,
11:00whether they were executing
11:01that communications binder
11:02system properly.
11:04And of course,
11:05the management team,
11:06absolutely we are,
11:07we have it,
11:08have it,
11:09you know,
11:09every communication
11:09is in the binder.
11:10Everybody's reading it.
11:12Um,
11:13and in fact,
11:13they implemented a system
11:15whereby they had
11:16the employees sign
11:17the top of the,
11:17sign the top of the memo
11:19in the,
11:19in the binder
11:20to show that they read it.
11:21And,
11:22and so I visited
11:22the branch one day
11:24and,
11:25um,
11:26and I watched
11:26a couple of new employee,
11:28a couple of employees
11:29reporting for their shift.
11:30I watched them
11:30go to the binder.
11:31I watched them
11:33write their,
11:34write their initials
11:35on the top of the page.
11:37And then as soon
11:38as they walked away
11:38from the binder,
11:39I asked them
11:40what they had just read
11:41and neither one of them
11:42had any clue
11:43what they had just read.
11:43They were just pencil
11:44whipping the,
11:45the process
11:47and,
11:47um,
11:48and they weren't,
11:49they weren't actually
11:49absorbing the,
11:50the information.
11:53it kind of taught me,
11:54taught me
11:56one thing,
11:57uh,
11:58is that people
11:59not out of,
12:01not out of a desire
12:01to be bad,
12:02but just out of a desire
12:03of habit
12:04and a,
12:04and a lack of,
12:05a lack of real
12:06consistent follow-up
12:07will take the path
12:08of least resistance.
12:09And the,
12:10the way to solve that
12:11is to,
12:11is to actually have
12:12real live interactions
12:14with people.
12:15It's,
12:15it's easy for people
12:16to pencil whip things
12:17when they're,
12:17when,
12:18when it's,
12:19you know,
12:19pencil and paper,
12:20it's not so easy
12:21to,
12:21to pencil whip it
12:22when you have to have
12:23a live eyeball
12:23to eyeball conversation.
12:24It's funny
12:25because I was in there
12:26thinking I'd probably,
12:26if I didn't think
12:27they were doing it,
12:27I probably would have
12:28just put a special note
12:29and said,
12:30Hey,
12:30go tell your manager
12:31the scores,
12:32score the football game
12:33today,
12:33just to have that in there
12:35to see if they read it.
12:35And Hey,
12:36did the,
12:36did your employee
12:37have any,
12:37that's a good idea.
12:39So similar style.
12:41You said the consistency
12:42matters more than intensity.
12:43Can you expound on that?
12:44So there's a,
12:45um,
12:46uh,
12:46there's a little story
12:47in a book called
12:48The Slight Edge,
12:49which is,
12:49which is a great book
12:50by the way,
12:50but talks about the,
12:51the formation
12:52of the Grand Canyon
12:53and the fact
12:54that the Grand Canyon
12:55wasn't created
12:56by some huge event,
12:57a meteor,
12:58you know,
12:58meteorite
12:59or anything like that.
12:59It was,
13:00it was just a stream
13:01of water
13:01over millions of years
13:02that dug a hole
13:03in the ground
13:03and created
13:04one of the,
13:04one of the most incredible,
13:06um,
13:06the incredible,
13:07you know,
13:07an incredible wonder
13:08of the world.
13:08And I believe that,
13:10that,
13:11you know,
13:11in a lot of businesses,
13:13we as leaders
13:14sometimes look for
13:15the big splash
13:16or the big win.
13:17and sometimes
13:18those big wins
13:19can,
13:19can be beneficial,
13:21but the reality
13:22is a big win
13:23kind of delivers,
13:25uh,
13:25one,
13:26one win,
13:26right?
13:26It,
13:27it,
13:27it delivers one,
13:28one benefit
13:29for some,
13:30for some short period
13:31of time,
13:31but the,
13:33the sustained progress
13:35over time,
13:36sustained delivery
13:37of,
13:37of repeatable results.
13:39And,
13:40you know,
13:40I,
13:40I come from the world
13:41of retail
13:41where,
13:42where you're only
13:43as good
13:43as your last customer
13:44and,
13:45and you have
13:45to repeat
13:46the performance
13:47customer after customer
13:48day after day,
13:49year after year
13:50in order to grow.
13:50There's a retail giant,
13:52Edward Filene,
13:53who,
13:53who founded Filene's
13:54department stores
13:55and,
13:55and he also was
13:56instrumental in the
13:57founding of the
13:57credit union industry.
13:58He defined progress
14:00as the continual replacement
14:02of the best there is
14:03with something even better.
14:04And,
14:05you know,
14:05in,
14:05in my mind,
14:06it's just because
14:08you're always striving
14:09to be a tiny bit better
14:11than you were yesterday
14:12doesn't mean you're bad.
14:13You can be the greatest
14:14in the world.
14:14You just have to keep growing
14:16and,
14:16and the only way
14:17to do that
14:17is to build upon success
14:19and,
14:19and,
14:19and build something
14:20sustainable
14:21that's,
14:21that's not,
14:22you know,
14:22a roller coaster
14:23of good and bad.
14:24So,
14:24what's the best metaphor
14:26you've found
14:26for helping leaders
14:27understand
14:29why things fall apart
14:30between planning
14:31and doing?
14:33Yeah,
14:34I love to use
14:35the metaphor
14:35of a GPS.
14:36A GPS in a car,
14:37you know,
14:37when you,
14:38you start the GPS,
14:39the first thing you do
14:40is you put in
14:41your desired destination
14:42and the,
14:43um,
14:43the,
14:44the machine then calculates
14:45the,
14:45the driving directions
14:46to get to that destination.
14:47But the driving directions
14:49are only as good
14:50as the accuracy
14:50of the destination.
14:51If you put in
14:52a wrong destination
14:53or you,
14:53or you put in
14:54a too generic destination,
14:56the driving,
14:56the calculation
14:57of the driving steps
14:58aren't going
14:59to get you there.
14:59And I think the same thing
15:00holds true
15:01in,
15:02in leadership
15:02and management
15:03environments.
15:04If you,
15:05if you're very good
15:06as a leader
15:07about defining
15:08exactly what the
15:09end result
15:10you,
15:10you intend
15:11to get to
15:11is,
15:12then,
15:13and you,
15:13you and the team
15:14can build
15:15the action steps
15:16that will help you
15:17get to that
15:18particular result.
15:18But if you
15:20are somehow
15:21unclear
15:22or are incomplete
15:23in communicating
15:24what the result is,
15:25chances are pretty good
15:26that the action steps
15:28that you and the team
15:28are going to build
15:29are not going to get you
15:30to the same place.
15:32Have you ever seen
15:33a leader
15:34unintentionally train
15:35their team
15:35not to follow through?
15:37Hmm.
15:38That's a great question.
15:40Yeah.
15:41I think,
15:43look,
15:44I guess,
15:44I guess a,
15:45a great example
15:46in my,
15:47in my,
15:47my world of retail
15:48is that retail managers
15:50have a tendency
15:52to focus on
15:53following up
15:54on operational stuff,
15:55not so much
15:56on customer interactions.
15:57You know,
15:58in,
15:58in the retail world,
15:59customer interactions
16:00are critically important,
16:01right?
16:01We,
16:02we tend to just accept
16:03that salespeople
16:04and employees
16:05are interacting
16:06with customers
16:07in some reasonable way
16:07and it's uncomfortable.
16:08It's,
16:08it's,
16:09it's a gray area
16:10and it's,
16:10it's not as easy
16:11to follow up
16:12on sales,
16:12sales interactions
16:13as it is
16:14on an operational detail
16:15like did you fill
16:16in the blue shirts
16:17on the front table?
16:18And so sales,
16:21salespeople
16:21kind of get used
16:22to not receiving
16:23much follow-up
16:24from managers
16:25on their interactions
16:27with customers.
16:28And,
16:29you know,
16:29the,
16:30you know,
16:30the really,
16:31you know,
16:31some,
16:31some managers
16:32who are,
16:32who are typically
16:33seen as really good
16:34might,
16:35might do a,
16:36you know,
16:36might make time
16:37to do an inspection
16:38observation
16:39of employees
16:40with customers
16:41once or twice a day
16:42and think that
16:43they're doing
16:43something really great
16:44by providing feedback
16:46on,
16:46on those customer
16:47interactions
16:47when in fact
16:48the salespeople
16:49are interacting
16:50with hundreds
16:50of customers
16:51in a day
16:51and the,
16:52the one or two times
16:53they get a little bit
16:54of feedback
16:54is one or 2%
16:56or,
16:56or worse
16:57of the,
16:58of,
16:58of the actual,
16:59of the actual occurrences.
17:00So they're,
17:02they're kind of training
17:02the salespeople
17:03to expect that
17:0498 or 99%
17:05of the time
17:06to get,
17:06they're not going
17:07to receive any follow-up
17:08on their customer
17:09interactions
17:09and that's,
17:10that's a problem.
17:12Well,
17:12that's a great example
17:13that I literally
17:14just thought of.
17:15If you hadn't
17:16gone and asked
17:17those people
17:17who were supposedly
17:18reading the binder,
17:21hey,
17:21what'd you learn
17:22from,
17:22what'd you learn
17:22from the reading
17:24air quotes
17:24for those who
17:25are listening
17:25and not watching
17:26reading the thing?
17:27When you notice
17:27that they didn't do it
17:28and you would have
17:29not followed through
17:30on that,
17:30that would have
17:31been teaching them
17:31that this isn't
17:32important,
17:33it's not a priority.
17:34Agreed.
17:34Agreed.
17:35I think we do it
17:36all the time.
17:37Every time we don't
17:38follow up
17:38and allow performance
17:40to be something
17:41less than,
17:42than what we intended,
17:43we're,
17:44we're reinforcing
17:45that,
17:45we're reinforcing
17:46that.
17:47So,
17:47the other side
17:48of that coin
17:48is,
17:49how do great leaders
17:50make expectations
17:52unmistakably clear
17:53without turning
17:54into micromanagers?
17:56Yeah,
17:57that's the,
17:57that,
17:58that micromanagement
17:59word is,
18:00is,
18:01I'm afraid,
18:01used a little
18:03too,
18:03a little too loosely
18:04and interpreted
18:05a little too,
18:05a little too viciously.
18:07I,
18:07I think that,
18:08you know,
18:09micromanagement
18:10when it's,
18:12when it's,
18:12when you're,
18:13when you're on people
18:14in a way that is,
18:16I guess,
18:18counterproductive
18:18or in a way
18:19that is,
18:20that is disrespectful
18:21or in a way
18:22that is somewhat
18:23overbearing
18:24to,
18:24to people's real
18:25abilities,
18:25then it's a management
18:27problem for sure.
18:28But I think managers
18:30get so scared
18:31of being labeled
18:32a micromanager
18:33that they end up
18:34leaving people
18:35on their own
18:35too much.
18:36I have a model
18:38that I call
18:38the leadership
18:39balance model
18:40and it's,
18:41it's kind of a,
18:41a different way
18:42of looking at
18:43the traditional
18:44linear model
18:45of management.
18:46Typically,
18:47we,
18:47we think of managers
18:48as being kind of
18:49easy managers
18:50or hard managers
18:51and it's this
18:52linear progression.
18:53On the one hand,
18:54you've got a manager
18:54who hands off,
18:55lets people do their thing
18:56and on the other
18:57end of the,
18:58of the spectrum,
18:59you've got the manager
18:59who's,
19:00who's on top
19:00of everybody
19:01all the time.
19:02I don't think
19:02it works like that.
19:03I think you can do
19:04two things
19:04at the same time.
19:05You can have people
19:07feel confident
19:07about what they're doing
19:08and at the same time,
19:09you can still challenge
19:10them to do more.
19:11So I see it as more
19:12like a two by two grid
19:13with those two,
19:14those two things
19:15on opposite sides.
19:16You've got the level
19:17of confidence
19:18that you instill
19:19in people
19:20and the level
19:20of challenge
19:21you instill
19:22in them
19:22and when people
19:24are feeling
19:25both confident
19:26and challenged,
19:27that's when I think
19:28they perform
19:29at their best
19:29and you can do that
19:30by,
19:31with some,
19:31some fairly simple messaging.
19:33You can,
19:33you can,
19:34you know,
19:34use a,
19:35use a little formula
19:36that kind of says,
19:38Mason,
19:38I,
19:39you know,
19:39I,
19:39I really see how,
19:40how great you're doing
19:41with that particular task
19:43and you've really
19:43gotten very good at it.
19:45I'm,
19:45I'm thrilled
19:45with the progress
19:46you've made
19:46and I'm going
19:47to challenge you
19:48to step it up a notch
19:49and now try,
19:50try A,
19:51B and C
19:51and maybe you can,
19:52you can grow even more
19:53in that particular skill
19:54and I mean,
19:55that's obviously
19:55a rough way
19:56to say it,
19:56but,
19:57or very easy way
19:57to say it,
19:58but it's,
19:58but in that,
19:59in that formula,
20:01you're doing both things
20:02at the same time
20:03and I think,
20:03and I think that's when
20:04people really perform
20:05their best
20:06and you won't be perceived
20:07as a micromanager
20:08if you're letting people
20:09feel that,
20:09that element of confidence
20:11in the,
20:11in the,
20:12the results
20:13that they're getting.
20:14So,
20:15I know you've worked
20:15across very different industries.
20:18What execution mistake
20:19shows up everywhere
20:21regardless of size
20:23or sector?
20:25Yeah,
20:26I,
20:26I think that managers,
20:28managers believing
20:29that they have given
20:32employees
20:33every bit of information
20:34they need
20:35or,
20:36or employees
20:36are adequately trained
20:38to,
20:38to do whatever
20:39the task is,
20:40I think is a mistake
20:41that,
20:41that I've seen
20:43across every industry
20:44I've,
20:44I've been a part of.
20:46we want to believe
20:47that,
20:47that people know
20:48what they're doing
20:49and,
20:49and,
20:50you know,
20:50we want,
20:50we want to do
20:51our own things too.
20:52Managers are very busy people
20:53and,
20:54and,
20:54and,
20:56but,
20:56but when you make,
20:57make the assumption
20:57that somebody knows
20:59what they're doing
20:59and knows how to achieve
21:01the,
21:01the result
21:02and you don't,
21:03you don't actually have
21:04a two-way conversation
21:05with them
21:05where,
21:06where you're asking them
21:07to,
21:07to validate
21:08or when you haven't
21:09seen them perform
21:10the skill
21:11or perform the task
21:12yourself
21:12in the past,
21:14you're,
21:14you're setting
21:14both of your,
21:16both of yourselves,
21:17you and,
21:17as the manager
21:18and the employee
21:19up for,
21:19for,
21:20for some failure.
21:21Can you tell a story
21:22where improving execution
21:23actually changed
21:24the culture of a team,
21:26not just the numbers?
21:27Sure.
21:28Um,
21:30uh,
21:31I'll,
21:31I'll talk about
21:32my days in the,
21:33in the foreign,
21:34I was in the retail
21:35foreign currency business
21:36where we had locations
21:37in airports
21:37and the product
21:38was currency
21:39so it wasn't like
21:40it was sitting out
21:40on a shelf,
21:41right?
21:41It was,
21:42it was,
21:42it was in a lock drawer
21:43and the whole point
21:44of,
21:45of the way to sell
21:46foreign currency
21:47was to have
21:48the right currency
21:48for the flights
21:49that were departing
21:51from the,
21:51in the gates
21:52near the store location.
21:53So if,
21:54if the store
21:55was on a terminal
21:56where there was
21:57a flight to London
21:58and a flight to Paris,
21:59you needed to make sure
22:00you had British pounds
22:01and,
22:01and euros
22:02in the tail,
22:03enough of them
22:03to serve the passengers
22:04on,
22:05on those departing flights.
22:06And I,
22:07you know,
22:08I was regularly
22:09having a problem
22:10with stores
22:11not having
22:12enough of the
22:12right currencies
22:13in the tills.
22:14So we went through,
22:15went through an exercise
22:16where we defined
22:17a process
22:17and we,
22:18and we created
22:19a common language.
22:19The process was
22:20that the location manager
22:22had to go to the
22:23flight display monitor
22:24and map out
22:25all the flights
22:25for the day
22:27so they knew
22:27exactly what flights
22:28were,
22:29what destinations
22:30were near their store.
22:32And we called that
22:33flight mapping.
22:34So,
22:34so flight mapping
22:35became a process.
22:36Then the,
22:37the second part
22:38of this process
22:39was to do
22:40a calculation
22:41based on the
22:42flights that were going.
22:43How many,
22:43how much in US dollar
22:44value of the currency
22:46did we need?
22:46And that was based
22:47on a,
22:48an estimate
22:48of the number
22:49of passengers
22:49and the,
22:50and the typical
22:50conversion rate
22:51of passengers
22:52on the flights.
22:53And then
22:54the third step
22:55was to print
22:56what we called
22:57an F9 report
22:58because you couldn't
22:59see the currency.
23:00Like I said,
23:00it wasn't on shelves.
23:01You had to print
23:02an F9 report
23:03from the,
23:04from the cash register
23:05till in order
23:05to see what was
23:06in the till.
23:06So those three steps,
23:08flight mapping,
23:08the currency calculation
23:10and the F9 report
23:12became a common language.
23:14This started
23:15in,
23:15in one airport
23:16and it became
23:17so successful
23:17in one airport.
23:18We rolled the process
23:19out to,
23:20to the rest
23:21of the airports
23:21throughout North America
23:22and it became,
23:24it became an absolute
23:25culture.
23:25It became a,
23:26it became a,
23:27you know,
23:27the,
23:27the F9 report
23:29was flight mapping
23:30and the F9 report
23:31were just common.
23:32They were part
23:33of the common language
23:34that every single person
23:35in the organization
23:36began to,
23:37you know,
23:37began to use
23:38and it was,
23:39it's just part of the job
23:40and,
23:41you know,
23:41to your point,
23:42obviously it impacted sales.
23:43We have,
23:44we have positive impacts
23:45on,
23:45on revenue,
23:46but it also just became
23:47so habitual
23:48and so routine
23:48that it,
23:49it was,
23:50it was,
23:51it was just,
23:51it was just the way
23:52we spoke every day.
23:53So when leaders say
23:55my people are capable,
23:56they just don't take ownership.
23:59In your opinion,
24:00what's usually
24:00the deeper issue?
24:02I don't,
24:02I mean,
24:02I'll repeat something
24:03I said a couple
24:04of minutes ago.
24:05I think sometimes,
24:06sometimes leaders
24:07are,
24:08they,
24:09they think they're going
24:10to get some prize
24:11for not being a micromanager.
24:12They're going to get some,
24:13you know,
24:13somebody's,
24:14somebody's going to pat them
24:15on the back
24:15for,
24:15for empowering your people.
24:17And,
24:18you know,
24:19I,
24:19I think that that's
24:21elevating
24:21that particular prize
24:23above the reality
24:24of getting results.
24:25I think that's sometimes,
24:27sometimes at the heart of it.
24:28And sometimes I think
24:29it's just bad,
24:30you know,
24:30bad prioritization
24:31and time management
24:32on the part of the,
24:33on the part of the leader.
24:34You know,
24:35I've been in a lot
24:36of different management positions
24:37and I've never been in a,
24:39in a position where,
24:40where my,
24:41where I felt like I had enough time
24:42to do everything.
24:42And so managers often
24:45choose to do
24:46the things that are
24:48their individual
24:49responsibilities.
24:50Many times it's things
24:51that,
24:52that other people
24:53on the team can't do
24:54for,
24:54for a number of reasons.
24:55And,
24:56and their day ends up
24:57getting filled with
24:58all of those types of tasks
25:00and they never get around
25:01to managing.
25:02And they,
25:02and they rationalize it
25:04by saying,
25:05my people are really good
25:05and they,
25:06you know,
25:06I empower them.
25:07When in fact,
25:08it's a choice,
25:09a conscious choice
25:10they've made to,
25:11to spend their time
25:12doing tasks
25:13rather than,
25:13than actually providing
25:15leadership.
25:16And I just,
25:17I think that's an error
25:18in judgment.
25:19So I know that you have
25:21a lot of experience
25:22and a lot of insights
25:24and a lot of wisdom.
25:25Obviously most of it
25:26put in your book
25:26and we're going to talk
25:27about that in a second.
25:28But if there was only
25:29one piece of advice
25:30that you could offer
25:31a business owner,
25:32executive or manager,
25:33what would that
25:34piece of advice be
25:35and why?
25:36Yeah.
25:37I would say
25:38live by a simple equation.
25:41The equation is
25:42actions
25:42plus external influences
25:44equals results.
25:45And there,
25:46in my mind,
25:47there is,
25:47there is no greater truth
25:49to organizational results.
25:50There's only two things
25:52that impact the results
25:52you get.
25:53It's the actions you take
25:54and the external influences
25:55that go into it.
25:56And if you,
25:58if you understand,
25:58can predict
25:59the external influences
26:01and the magnitude
26:02of those external influences,
26:04then you should be able
26:05to build the actions
26:07that are necessary
26:07in order to deliver
26:08the results
26:09that you want.
26:09If you somehow
26:11put your head
26:12in the sand
26:12and think that
26:15your actions
26:16aren't the main thing
26:18that you can control
26:19and the main thing
26:20that's going to deliver results,
26:21then you're taking
26:22your eye off the ball.
26:24So don't get so caught up,
26:25you know,
26:26understand the external influences,
26:27but don't get so caught up
26:28in them
26:28that you lose focus
26:30on what you
26:31and your team
26:32really control
26:32and build your entire
26:34organizational culture
26:35around action items
26:36and executing
26:37those action items.
26:38And if you do that,
26:39then other pieces
26:40will fall into place
26:41pretty quickly.
26:42I love it.
26:43So if people want
26:44to know more about you,
26:45the work you do,
26:46what's the best way
26:47for them to connect
26:48with you
26:49and learn more?
26:51Sure.
26:52My website is
26:53johndario.com.
26:54Easy to find.
26:55No H in the John,
26:56so it's johndario.com.
26:58Anybody can go there.
26:59They'll get a good view
27:00of what I do
27:01and how I might be able
27:03to help their organizations.
27:04There's a contact form there
27:05if they want to talk live with me.
27:07I'm happy to communicate with them.
27:10Why don't you tell us
27:11a little about your book?
27:12What inspired you that?
27:13Sure.
27:14Thanks.
27:15So this is actually
27:16book number five for me
27:17and I started writing them
27:19several years ago.
27:20I was encouraged to do so
27:21by a co-worker,
27:23somebody who I had worked with
27:25for years
27:25and she suggested
27:26I start to share
27:27all the stories
27:29that she had been sick
27:29of hearing about.
27:30She said,
27:31stop telling me the stories,
27:32put them in a book.
27:32So I did
27:33and I just kind of never stopped.
27:35It's kind of my way.
27:36I've worked
27:37in some great organizations.
27:39I've worked for great people
27:40and I've learned
27:41a lot of things
27:42along the way
27:42and I just really like
27:44to share the stuff
27:45and it's been quite a hobby.
27:48Awesome.
27:49And I'm assuming
27:49all available on Amazon
27:51or at your website?
27:52All available on Amazon.
27:53It's not quite available.
27:55We're getting ready
27:56to publish
27:57third week of March
27:59and it'll be available
28:00on Amazon.
28:01It'll be Kindle version,
28:03Audible version,
28:04the whole bit.
28:05Awesome.
28:05Thank you so much.
28:06It's been a pleasure
28:07having you on the show, John.
28:08No, thank you, Mason.
28:09Great conversation.
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