Accountability vs. Ownership (And Other Differences That Change Team Performance)

Name: Accountability vs. Ownership (And Other Differences That Change Team Performance) | Kyle McDowell
Uploaded: 2026-09-08T14:55:47+00:00
Duration: 40 min 56 s
Channel: Workforce Alchemy

00:05welcome to the mason duke check show and before we begin this episode is brought to you by

00:12workforcealchemy.com where companies go when they want to find out the secrets of how to select

00:17engage and retain their best employees please welcome kyle mcdowell former fortune 10 executive

00:24best-selling author of begin with we and founder of kyle mcdowell incorporated after nearly three

00:32decades leading massive teams and billion dollar operations kyle now helps leaders replace fear

00:39dysfunction and me first management with cultures that are built on trust accountability and we

00:46kyle welcome to the show hey mason man it's good to see you thank you for having me

00:50so i'm glad you're here thank you so i know that you spent nearly three decades inside large

00:55corporations in environments like that what did you see again and again that convinced you that

01:01the traditional boss model was broken well man where to begin i think i would probably start with

01:10and i think it's not unusual we've probably all observed this but haven't taken the time to really

01:14inspect why we're seeing what we see but i think in my experience i've seen really incredibly talented

01:20people who are focused on the wrong things and specifically focused on doing just enough to stay

01:26out of trouble instead of doing their best work and i think that's a result of well i'm certain it's

01:32it's the result of leaders who are relying on authority and fear to drive performance rather than

01:37creating an environment where people actually want to show up and be their best and do their best and add

01:42value it's it's the organizations that are more i guess i would say more consistent than others

01:47and their approach to creating that environment that that that really not only inspires uh team

01:55members to thrive but also creates a sense of ownership that is not found when we leave this

02:00command and control style so you know it's i guess i would just summarize my response and by

02:05when people show up with with the hope of adding value and oh by the way being valued at

02:11the same time there's a sense of ownership that replaces what is typically referred to as

02:16accountability and and i i think it's easy to point fingers at at team members to say well you know

02:23they

02:23just don't care or they're not invested in our growth or our journey they're not you know they're

02:27not assuming ownership of their work when when in reality it's the leader who has failed to create

02:32the environment where they can feel safe and want to take that approach i love that i i had a

02:37guest on

02:38a few months ago his name was norman wolf and he wrote a book i think it was called the

02:42living

02:42organization and he said your job as a leader is to create an environment where people can do their

02:46best work that's it man and and when i hear you talking about that and i hear you talking about

02:52did you ever see the movie office space of course yeah so one of my favorite scenarios and for those

02:58of

02:58you who haven't seen it it's kind of a cult classic and this i guess this movie is like 20

03:03something

03:03years old by now maybe longer gosh but there's for those that haven't seen it there's this one

03:08segment where this worker comes in to meet these two consultants the bobs bob and bob and exactly

03:14they're there to find out who are we gonna fire who are we gonna keep what do these people do

03:18and the main character peter comes strolling in and i i can almost memorize the line he says

03:25it's not that i'm lazy i just don't care and these consultants look at him like what what do you

03:31mean you don't care he goes it's a matter of motivation he goes if i bust my tail and our

03:34company sends out an extra 10 units i don't see another dime of that that's right so what's the

03:40motivation for me he goes and if i make a mistake he goes i got eight bosses that are going

03:44to come

03:44by and tell me about it he goes that's my only real motivation is to not get hassled that or

03:51the fear of

03:51losing your job he goes but the fear of you're losing your job will only make you work hard enough

03:55not

03:55to get fired and when and that's as relevant today as it was then and i look at all of

04:03these

04:03companies and they look at their payroll i had a i had a client who had a payroll of like

04:0710 million

04:08and i asked him i go what do you think the discretionary effort is of your average employee

04:11he goes like i'm probably 60 i go okay so you're spending 10 million dollars a year for labor and

04:18you're getting six million dollars worth of work that sounds like about a four million dollar a year

04:21profit leak he i go someone was embezzling four million from you how long would you wait to fix

04:26he goes i'd fix it right away same day why haven't you because i didn't know how i didn't know

04:30it was

04:30an issue even worse later that afternoon he said into his credit he sat in on a session with his

04:37his frontline supervisors asked them the same question what's the discretionary effort of your

04:41average employee they said 35 40 i'm like that you should have seen this guy's jaw drop

04:49so something that wasn't a priority i.e created an environment where people could do their best work

04:54now became a priority became a priority so like i love what you're saying about that couldn't agree

05:00with you more yep so how do you know when a company's performance problem is perhaps maybe a

05:06culture problem what do you know i think the word culture gets gets tossed around kind of haphazardly

05:14and i'm not implying that you did with the question but for me when i think about an

05:19underperforming team or an underperforming organization more broadly you know i think

05:25what you just said the office space summary is a really i think good segue into my response here and

05:31it's that when we have a performance problem we it's it's easy again to point at members you know

05:36team members and their their lack of ownership their lack of care but i would say performance

05:42challenges and performance problems are almost always the result of leadership not necessarily

05:47this this this opaque thing called culture but they're the result of of leadership now i'm not

05:53naive there are people that show up and they want to they want to give just enough effort to get

05:56by

05:57and and and that's that's not uncommon but when we accept that as leaders we send the message to

06:03everybody else that that that's okay and this is how we get by this is what we do so when

06:09we have a

06:09performance issue it's easy to point at people and say you know get your results up or change that or

06:14change this process but more often than not that we haven't created again this environment where people

06:19can thrive and want to do more than than the bare minimum so performance is easy to look at the

06:25numbers but but the hard part the more the more kind of responsible approach is to peel those numbers

06:31back to understand why the numbers are where they are and the humans that are delivering

06:37suboptimally to try to unpack why they're delivering suboptimally and more often than not it's not a

06:42lack of care it's not that they that they that they just don't give a shit it is they have

06:47not been put

06:47in a position or afforded the opportunity to be their very best and that comes via a number of ways

06:53right so i've created these principles that are essentially observable behaviors they're called the

06:5810 ways observable behaviors that as a leader i can hold myself accountable and my team can see me

07:04modeling these behaviors over and over again consistently give us examples of a couple of those

07:07well i'll start with my favorite we number eight is we challenge each other and and you and i were

07:14kind

07:14of chatting about this before you tap record and that is you know historically in most environments

07:19the challenges are reserved for the person with the the loftiest title or the boss and i just the math

07:26tells me that that that can't be a consistent kind of sustainable approach because one person

07:32cannot conceivably challenge every single team member in in the appropriate way because we all

07:37respond to challenge differently they can't they cannot challenge every single team member in a way

07:43that compels excellence but what can compel excellence is when peers challenge peers team

07:51members challenge the leader the leader challenges the more senior leader and we embrace these

07:55challenges from one another that's we number nine we embrace challenge we embrace the challenges

07:59from whatever direction they come excluding including external forces you know pricing competition

08:05whatever the scenario is but my favorite is we challenge each other because on the other side of

08:09challenge you probably know this more than anyone i've ever met because of your your history with

08:14iron man and just your history and in in kind of physical activity in general on the other side of

08:20challenge brother as you know is fulfillment is is fueled to do it all over again and nearly nearly i

08:27would say just about

08:28everything on this on this planet in our existence worth having is the result of overcoming one or more

08:34challenges and as a team if we're not ready to embrace challenge and we're also not ready to to to

08:39issue

08:39challenges to one another then we're subscribing to mediocrity agreed and i i hope i can say this right

08:47and articulate this well but we start talking about culture and challenging i'm really thinking about the

08:52identity of the company like we don't do those things here that's not who we are or we do do

09:01those things

09:01here because that is who we are and when everyone knows that this is like you and i were visiting

09:07offline about i wrote a book with bryant wright called built right w-r-i-g-h-e i know

09:12i don't mean this plug

09:13this not that's not as a plug to the book but he talked about and for those that haven't don't

09:19know who he is

09:20yet he has he led a high school cross-country team to 13 state championships eight of them in a

09:25row and

09:26in the last 17 years the worst finishes boys team did at state meet was second place so he built

09:30an

09:30amazing culture and a team identity and he talked about how sometimes young athletes he didn't have

09:38to explain it to them as a coach all these kids had to do is look around and they'd be

09:42able to figure it

09:42out what we were made of and how we operate and what we do and what that looked like in

09:49his

09:49particular situation is in a lot of organizations people who are superstars and i.e or more experienced

09:56the seniors get by with or the achievers get by with less accountability or rules because oh they're

10:03the superstar he goes not my organization he goes we don't do things that way here our seniors and our

10:09state champions are the ones that carry the coolers it's not hey freshman grab the coolers

10:14hey freshman set up the tent that's not who we are we do things together and the seniors their job

10:21is

10:21to set the example for everyone else coming in like we are here to care for you and take care

10:25of you and

10:25we will lead by example we we we we we like you wrote a book on it like that's why

10:31i was excited

10:31to visit you and why this is conversation is so easy for me because i can see what you're saying

10:37and i can feel the impact of your words because i've seen this stuff apply well well well thank

10:44you for connecting those dots but the way you frame that is exactly how i came up with the 10

10:49weeks

10:49it was i was in a hotel room the night before i was going to meet with uh i just

10:53joined a new

10:53organization and i was scheduled to speak to the top 40 or 50 leaders of this 15 000 person organization

11:00the next day and i you know you can't have a good corporate meeting without slides uh that's sarcasm

11:06so i knew i had to put together i knew i had to put together a powerpoint to share with

11:09this team

11:10the next morning and and and it was my approach this was a really pivotal moment in my career and

11:15as a matter of fact i i look back at that evening in lawrence kansas as as a real epiphany

11:19for me

11:20and as i as i started to come up with my my thoughts and and what i wanted to share

11:25the next morning with

11:25this team i started with identity exactly the way that you just framed it and i and i started to

11:31play

11:31a not so not so shining moments of interactions with me and and leaders i had worked with over

11:38the first 20 years of my career and i remember thinking well that's not who we're going to be

11:42we are not going to be this way and i juxtaposed that with the handful of leaders who really inspired

11:47me you know maybe saw more in me than i saw myself gave me stretch opportunities and i said that's

11:51who

11:51we're going to be we we have to be this way and out of that kind of identity thought process

11:57i said i said

11:59okay well i need to apply observable behaviors to these things that will describe and define who we

12:04are and that's how the 10 we's were born but it had to start with this identity this identity on

12:09how

12:09i wanted to be seen as the leader how i wanted the team members to be seen and and there

12:13was no

12:13difference by the way there's no leadership gap where what i know what's good for me is not good

12:17for you and vice versa but recognizing the deficiencies the dysfunction and even toxicity that i

12:22experienced the first 20 years of my career led me to create this identity of we so it's exactly what

12:28you're talking about and by the way the example that you mentioned with the seniors you know carrying

12:32the water kind of setting that example that's we number two we lead by example in the example you

12:38know it's not whether or not should i lead by example the question is am i leading by an example

12:43that i would be proud to see replicated so that sounds like what coach right is doing he said in

12:47that example and he's showing it 100 senior leaders model it over and over again so as the others come

12:52up through through their high school years they know it's a responsibility and they have to take

12:56ownership of those same things it's i'm going to drop another one on you because this is so in

13:00alignment i i'm astonished that we're getting to have this conversation i love it when this happens

13:05we should happen more but you talk about the identity the cross-country team is the distance team on the

13:13track team and when his distance team during track season his cross-country team is participating in a

13:20track meet during track season you know the track team didn't wasn't the same as the cross-country

13:25team they had some shot putters and throwers that would not carry anything they're laying around in

13:30the tent drinking soda eating chips all the guys are warming up expecting to win etc and brian coach

13:36right had one of the uh his distance runners come up to him and complain he said coach it's not

13:41fair

13:42he said you know we're the ones that are carrying these tents and carrying the coolers and these guys

13:46are just these fat slobs are just sitting around eating chips drinking soda while we do all the work

13:52and that's not fair and coach right looked at him and said son 20 of the people in this planet

13:58accomplish 80 of anything that matters he goes we are all those 20 percenters every one of the guys

14:07on our distance team and our state champion cross-country team we are those top 10 20 percenters

14:15that's how we interact with the world that's what we do get used to it real life it's real life

14:22yeah

14:23he didn't apologize he didn't go over there get get the shot putter or throw her off his butt and

14:29tell him to help no he's like you are special we are special we do things differently and

14:38this is who you are the identity who you are and you better get used to it because the rest

14:45of the

14:45world this is this is how you interact with the world when you're one of those top 20 percenters

14:48and you are and so are every member so is every member on this team i loved it you know

14:53mason what

14:54a beautiful example of of a leader taking a taking a broader lens to their responsibilities to those they

15:01lead and and and i talk about it in this through this through this lens you know when you approach

15:06your

15:06job if you're in a position of authority let's say you're a boss you can approach your job as that

15:11as a job i've got some widgets to process i've got a i've got a team to oversee or supervise

15:17and you

15:17might deliver great performance with those widgets and you might supervise to a point where people are

15:23you know kind of like a clock they just kind of get the laundry out and process those widgets or

15:27this is where i you know i've it took me 20 years to get here you can approach your role

15:32as an

15:33opportunity to help people in something much broader than what they do on a daily basis so the

15:38life he taught them a life lesson with this 20 80 notion which which is obviously true but i think

15:44it's i i would venture to guess that the individual who the the student who approached student athlete

15:51who approached them to say it's not fair remembers that conversation as vividly as you're telling the

15:55story now i'm sure it's going to last and stay with them well beyond that season and he probably went

16:01back and talked to his teammates and told him what happened they probably laughed at him and said

16:04what'd you expect him to say what do you think was going to happen you think he's going to go

16:11say something to the shot putter no he doesn't that's he doesn't want that nonsense around he

16:15he protected his culture and the the people in that circle they know what they're about and what they do

16:23and the others they don't get to be part of that that's right yeah and that's a choice by the

16:28way

16:28it is it's a choice we all have that choice you protect your peace and you protect your success

16:34it's it's a you must be vigilant and he what he is and was amen so what are the biggest

16:40mistakes

16:41leaders make when they try to create accountability but end up creating fear instead well i don't you

16:46know i have to say i don't really believe or subscribe to the notion of creating accountability

16:50i think accountability is often confused with ownership and the way most in my experience most

16:56bosses not leaders but bosses approach approach this is they confuse accountability or ownership

17:02with punishment and real accountability is not about catching people doing something wrong it's

17:07about empowering them creating expectations very clear expectations for what good looks like what

17:12success looks like and i go back to the office space scene that you that you call out because

17:17when people fear consequences more than they trust the leader that that we are you know creating

17:22something that we can be proud of and look back at and by the way i don't i don't want

17:27to come

17:28across naive right so if you're in a role that you know let's just say you're a barista and and

17:33you're

17:33at a tiny coffee shop and and you know it's easy to confuse handing people cups of coffee with the

17:39opportunity to provide impact and so you can approach that role as a barista as how quickly you need

17:44to take that order get that cup filled and slide it across the counter or you can take that as

17:48an

17:49opportunity to have an impact on someone else's day on on the the energy that you that you that you

17:55show

17:55and display and model every single day and when you see that as the barista you see there's a sense

18:02of fulfillment that comes when you do just a bit more than the bare minimum of your job i'm not

18:06saying

18:06you have to go over you know above and beyond every single interaction but when you make that choice

18:11to to add value in a way that's that is that that is separate and essentially distinct from

18:16the bare minimums or your job description there's this level of fulfillment that fuels you to do it

18:22over and over again so we can as leaders we can approach our team with this you know accountability

18:27matters uh mindset or we can talk about ownership and the impact that ownership can have not not just

18:34in your role as a barista but getting you in a position to take the next role whatever that is

18:37if

18:38you're just there to to punch a clock and make a few bucks as a stepping stone to something else

18:42well let's talk about that that's something that if you perform well here you're able to

18:47stack a few bucks to put yourself in a position for that next role the why behind what you do

18:52creates a sense of ownership that transcends accountability in ways that people i think

18:56underestimate but also don't realize the impact that you can have when you approach those that

19:01you lead with that perspective the more the more we inspire motivate and compel others to do

19:07to to to get away from accountability and much closer to ownership results improve the culture

19:13is something that is that is really hard to miss but it's it's i think accountability is almost a

19:19four-letter word in some circles but really high performers they want ownership they want to be held

19:24accountable but they also want to own what they're doing and that's where the leader's role is really

19:28really on display there i'm going to share a story with you i'm interested in your feedback on it

19:33i experienced this recently with like within the last month and i'm not even going to say there

19:38was accountability i'm going to say that i went i went it was hot i was preparing my house in

19:46kansas

19:46for sale i was outside it was 100 degrees sweating all day super thirsty decided hey i'm going to go

19:52get

19:52dinner and i want to go to a nice mexican restaurant probably twice the price most restaurants mexican

19:57restaurants a nice one i was like i want a nice meal today and every single person i came in

20:03contact

20:03with did their job to perfection so if you want accountability nobody missed anything so they

20:09did so my the person that greeted me pleasant happy got me seated in a perfect space quickly my server

20:16was pleasant she brought out water she brought out the menu she's like checked on me about every 15

20:21minutes whatever she was excellent food was great and the floors were clean the tables were bust you would

20:28think hey this is everyone did their jobs i'm not even going to say enough they did an excellent job

20:35it was very clean the food was excellent everything's perfect but here's where they

20:41i'm gonna say they did a good job but here was the missing point and i think you hit on

20:45it

20:45and it might be a little part of the ownership and identity issue my my son has just got a

20:51role as a

20:52new manager and i try not to overwhelm him with advice because i'm dad to him yeah yeah guys written

20:57a bunch of

20:58books but he i just said son easy i said serve your customers to the best of your ability and

21:05support

21:06each other to the best of your ability you do those things you take care of the customers and you

21:10take

21:10care of each other everything else you'll you'll you'll start figuring out but just just stick with

21:14those yeah he's like okay dad and then i told him what i'm about what i'm gonna tell you so

21:19when i got

21:20there to the restaurant i had a big thing of water and i swallowed that thing fast i was so

21:25thirsty

21:26empty that thing was empty and i had it sitting at the edge of the table empty and our server

21:31would

21:32come by and after five to seven minutes of watching at least five employees walk past that

21:39empty water at the end of the thing some of them more than once i got up and went to

21:44the bar

21:45to get my water refill i mean i'm dying of thirst i was out all day i dehydrated so i

21:50come back and

21:51did it again wow went through it another five to seven minutes nothing five seven employees walk

21:57i went and i go to the bartender guess what he took care of me right away he did his

22:01job he did

22:02excellent job he i didn't have to wait yes sir i can take care of that right away and he

22:05did he sent

22:06me back so what's the issue the issue is that everyone was focused on doing their individual jobs

22:16and the culture wasn't we don't let customers sit with water empty on the table when we walk by

22:24we will go and either fill it ourselves and take care of it or we will go and tell the

22:31server hey i

22:32noticed a table in your section i've been by a couple times and everything or if i'm the bartender

22:37hey i noticed that one of your guests had to come up twice and ask for water i wanted to

22:44alert you to

22:45that because we don't leave each other hanging yeah man and as individuals they all perform their

22:53tasks and their duties perfectly yeah but as a team they failed because they didn't have ownership of

23:00the customer experience yeah and their identity was tied to what are my job task functions not

23:08we provide this kind of guest is yeah guest experience and we take care of our customers

23:16and we support each other well i think that's a great example of the difference the difference

23:20between ownership and accountability so exactly right so i think i love this example and it's not

23:26dissimilar from what i see in my work with with with companies or organizations especially bigger ones

23:33where there are silos and there are you know different functional areas and we get into these

23:37functional silos and people get really focused on their piece of the of the of the puzzle right so

23:44whatever component they they own of this of the organization's output and there's a sense of pride when

23:50one one of the silos is really performing well but there's also more often than not a lack of

23:57awareness of other functional areas not not performing at as an equally high level and the the the related

24:08outcomes that are not fulfilled or our desire to deliver great outcomes not fulfilled because they're

24:13looking at it from just their lens just their functional areas accountability or responsibility but

24:18when you do create this environment where where there is this kind of global view of what we do

24:25people start to care more about the impact that their functional area has and they recognize that

24:30it's not just enough for one of our silos or one of our functional areas to perform really well if

24:35we're not all performing well i've seen it both as a w-2 when i was still in corporate america

24:40and it was

24:41really really tough to to lick a problem that's tough to lick but i see it and i see it

24:46more often than not

24:48in my in my work now and again it's easy to say well that group is just different or they

24:54don't you

24:54know they don't care as much or they're not but we've got to create that that that imagery for for

25:00every functional area to recognize the role that their their functional area plays in the macro

25:06delivery of the product or service that we that we sell and it reminds me of we number four it's

25:12we

25:12take action that's what the bartender did there it's not enough to say you know i i dropped off

25:19the food at the table the drink was full five minutes ago any person that walks by that table

25:25and recognizes that your cup is empty as trivial as it may sound they must take action and it doesn't

25:30mean you take over someone else's responsibilities or their job function if nothing else you go back to

25:35example you said it's perfect you go back behind the counter you say so hey i noticed that table seven

25:41is is their their glass has been empty for a while that's taking action but if we don't create

25:46that expectation among all members of the team then not my job man and people just move on to

25:51something else and the and the result is a customer who's less than wowed and no one no one wants

25:56to be

25:56a part of that and the thing was and you described it perfectly i was less than wowed and i

26:01know i was

26:02super thirsty and i just she checked on me the the server checked on me on a regular basis which

26:08would

26:08have been fine in any other circumstance so it just was that day i was so hot so dehydrated i

26:13was

26:13just going through it but the bottom line is i was paying a premium price for a premium experience at

26:18a very nice restaurant and i and i was thirsty and having to get up and get asked for water

26:24multiple

26:24times and i'm like yep it it just didn't it just wasn't an exceptional experience and it could have

26:33been in your opinion what should leaders do when they maybe inherit a team that has low morale low

26:39trust or a history of poor leadership what are some of your tips there well i think i think it's

26:44really

26:44important and we've seen this i i'm certain members of your audience have seen this where a new leader

26:49comes in and they just start swinging a sledgehammer because they've been told the team is underperforming

26:54or they've been told changes need to need to happen it's i've been in those shoes as a matter of

26:59fact

26:59the same organization where i created the 10 we's within my first month or so i remember my my boss

27:05telling me very very clearly he by name a couple of members of my team that reported to me that

27:10needed to go they need to be replaced and you know i think in that in that scenario more often

27:16than not

27:17the person who is receiving that direction from their boss is going to follow through and start to

27:21make changes you know asking people are going to update their resume and start looking immediately

27:26well yeah i mean it's it's so here i was in this new role and i think this is indicative

27:30of what

27:31we see all over the place now i was in this new role so i want to please my boss

27:34and my boss says

27:35he and she they need they need to go well my i didn't ask this but my first question is

27:40well why

27:40did you wait for me to get here why is why why are these people still here if they're so

27:43bad so i say

27:45this to say before changing people you got to change the environment you have to listen listen a lot

27:51listen first and and and ask fewer questions and just observe and before you come to a determination

27:59that we've got people that have low morale and low trust because they're bad people we got to

28:05establish the standards and say okay we may be underperforming and i'm not going to talk about

28:10those metrics just yet but here are the standards by which we must all operate including me the leader

28:15and then we got to start establishing quick wins and ask and not be shy about advertising those wins

28:22and publishing those wins because listen if you're on a team that is known for for low morale low trust

28:27a suboptimal performance they know it you know they're not naive to that and and more often than not

28:34it is a result of a leader or a lack of leadership that is that has put them in this

28:39position and they're

28:40going to people will behave and deliver at the ceiling at which uh that you set for them people

28:46don't need promises they need evidence that you're not just there to supervise you're there to actually

28:51lead you're there to drive people and compel people to to a sense of ownership that they have not been

28:57oriented with or shown before that must start with with the leader we can't come in swing a sledgehammer

29:03and say this area is broken and it might be broken but without going deeper to understand why it's

29:09broken understanding why trust is an issue understanding why performance is not where we

29:13need it to be and then start making decisions on changes but we have to get close enough to the

29:18work close enough to people doing the work to understand why we are in the situation we're in

29:23and it's rarely people just showing up that don't care it that's rare they've been shown that caring has

29:28not been rewarded with additional opportunities promotions they just they've been they've been shown from

29:33their leader more appropriately their boss that these are the requirements get that laundry out and

29:39process these widgets and that's that's a sign of success in some cases they might even get punished

29:44for it it's like no good deed goes unpunished like hey you do this i'm gonna pile more work i'm

29:49gonna

29:49pile more work on you that these other people aren't doing and other people sit down to watch them do

29:52it

29:52and a boss that enables that stuff deserves that kind of culture because they created it they created

30:00it and at the end of the day we we need to see our leaders behave in a way that

30:04inspires us to do

30:05more than the bare minimum and it's it sounds a little pollyannish and maybe unicorns and rainbows

30:10true but it but it is true it absolutely is true like i said earlier if we approach it as

30:16a job get

30:16these widgets out that's what people are going to focus on we approach it on an opportunity to have

30:20an impact not only in our in our business lives but our personal lives and have an impact on those

30:25we serve with the product or service that we deliver man people really buy in they will and by the

30:30way maybe not a hundred percent and those that don't we need to help them find another role

30:34somewhere else so what are some signs that you see or common errors related to bosses rewarding the

30:45wrong behaviors yeah man it's so that you remind me of we number seven is we measure ourselves by

30:51outcomes not activity and i'm convinced that when people spend more time and effort and burning

31:00calories trying to look productive and this is often manifested in their calendar you know i've got

31:06back-to-back meetings all day i'm triple book three times double book five different times and people wear

31:12that busyness as a badge of honor and my position is this activity is really really important but if you

31:19can't draw a straight line an invisible kind of imaginary straight line from that activity in which

31:24you're engaged to the outcomes that you are responsible for owning it should be scrutinized why

31:30are we doing this so when we see when we see someone who has historically been an outspoken team member

31:38with with innovation uh in terms of their ideas that they bring to the table maybe different paths or

31:44they they're open and comfortable challenging one another when we see those people recoil

31:47and meetings become quiet and we see you know wide scale and widespread agreement with the boss no

31:55matter what they say then we've probably created incentives among the team that reward performative

32:02things or they reward theater rather than rewarding the outcome so i would you know to be very specific

32:08in my answer to your question is we've got to recognize those that are delivering the outcomes for which

32:14you know we're known and the things that we are in business to do and and get away from recognizing

32:20and rewarding people that simply are working hard we want people that work hard but we want them

32:24working hard on the right things amen so we've got to focus on on the outcomes that our activity is

32:30driving not just the activity for the sake of activity so if the if there was only one action

32:37i'm i got two more questions for you and then and one of them i want to touch on i

32:41know you've led very

32:42large organizations what does it take to make leadership principles stick across thousands of

32:46people so it's so simple but it's not easy and you as a as a performance guy an athlete you

32:54know the

32:55difference between simple and easy like we know we know losing weight is simple it's take in fewer

33:01calories burn more calories you can come up with any scenario in the world but at the end of the

33:05day

33:06it's it's really just math but it's not easy it's very simple the math is is simple but it's not

33:13easy

33:13so so it's it's when i say it's simple we got to model it it's just that simple we have

33:20to model the

33:20behavior we expect to see from others now it's not easy because when adversity strikes or maybe you're

33:26met you're you're greeted with some bad news or what you know whatever the the adversity is or however

33:31it presents itself that's when it's it's really easy to lean into our business card and to say

33:39because i said so or this is just how it is we just have to get you just have to

33:42get on board this is

33:43how it is and that is a recipe for apathy so at the end of the day the leader must

33:51establish the

33:52performance that we're trying to achieve the kpis but just as important as that is establishing the

33:59behavioral standards that we require to be a member of this team to deliver those those kpis

34:04and then the team has to see me model it because nobody cares about the values on the wall

34:09they don't care about the things that i say they care about my behavior they're watching to see if

34:15i am a hypocrite if if i am actually modeling the same behavior i expect from them and when they

34:20see that consistently over and over again and when i stray from that or i behave in a way that's

34:25contrary to my own standards i'm comfortable enough to say yeah you're right i blew it you

34:30know what got and that's by the way it's we number six is we own our mistakes i blew it

34:34i blew it i'm

34:35human just like you so there's a bit of relatability that comes in when they see us behaving in a

34:40way

34:40that recognizes our own flaws recognizes that we we didn't kind of we didn't model the behavior the

34:46way that we would like to see but nobody's going to fight nobody's going to nobody's going to read the

34:50values on a wall or even read the 10 wheeze and say yeah i'm on board with this when they

34:54see

34:54their leader behaving in a way that's contrary to those to those behaviors if there was if there

35:00was only one piece of advice that you could give to anybody who's watching or listening today what's

35:05the most important piece of advice you could offer and why you know i'll make i'm gonna it's a personal

35:10response this was uh reminds me of a scenario or a story that i was it was probably 2009 and

35:16i had

35:16just taken a role not just i'd been in this role probably maybe a year or so and i was

35:22leading

35:22about 5 000 people and a peer of mine who was leading maybe i don't know a couple thousand

35:28people maybe a little less he left the organization and i remember like it was yesterday very vividly

35:34my boss comes into my office and says hey i'd like you to take over tom's function and i and

35:40this was

35:40an area that i wasn't very familiar with and i was just like i don't know william if this is

35:44the

35:44right move for me he said you'll thank me for this one day i said okay so i assumed ownership

35:50of

35:50this new role and about a month later william my boss left the organization as well so now there

35:56was an opening for his role and i was now running leading two of the three functions that he was

36:02responsible for so i thought i would be a natural shoe-in to replace him i would too right because

36:09i

36:09was delivering really well in the area that i had historically owned the area that i'd just taken over

36:14was underperforming and it was a domain that i had very little experience so it's not like i could

36:18come in and add a whole lot of value i needed to learn and understand what was happening and

36:23so i went through the interview process during the interim of during the the time that after my boss

36:28left i was now reporting to the president of the division who was now the hiring manager and i went

36:32through the series of interviews and turns out i didn't get the job and uh and they named a successor

36:38for my boss and he was introduced and and that was that but in my next one-on-one with

36:43the

36:44president of the division i said man i gotta be honest with you i really felt like i was

36:47a shoe-in for this role and i'm curious why you didn't put me in that role and i'll never

36:53forget it

36:54man mason in the most stoic of ways and i have endless respect for this guy he looked me in

36:59the

36:59most stoic of ways straight face and said you never asked for help and i said well what do you

37:05mean

37:05ted he said your your newly inherited organization was underperforming it was a foreign domain for you

37:11and you never raised your hand to ask for help you never asked for additional resources or you

37:15know you never asked for anything and my naive response at the time was well of course i didn't

37:21because this i own this function this is my responsibility it's a very long-winded way in

37:26a story of pointing out my response to your question it is don't be shy or afraid or let your

37:33ego stand in the way of asking for help great advice dude it's that applies to everybody brand new

37:40manager a senior level executive that is advice that fits across the board thank you for that

37:46well it's it's a shame that it has to be it has to be said because as you know when

37:52so many of us we

37:53enter the workplace and this dog eat dog lord of the flies for someone to win someone else must lose

37:58paradigm creeps in and we feel as if we have to have all the answers we need to sound like

38:02we're the

38:03smartest person when we have the most expansive vocabulary which is all nonsense and the hidden

38:08kind of gem in this whole line of thinking is we're wired to want to help others we are and

38:15when

38:16we see a leader who who approaches his role or her role with vulnerability in the openness and

38:21transparency that i don't have all the answers i don't know what the next step is but boy we got

38:27some experts around here and we're going to figure it out that the relatability and connection we make

38:32with those that we lead becomes so much more profound because it's no longer a top-down organization

38:37it is a we face we focus organization and it cost me a job it cost me a promotion because

38:44i was so

38:44focused on being the star rather than leaning into the experts that were around me and asking for help

38:49that's shame everybody needs to hear that and i i've had people inside conversations at all levels

38:55of management come in and they were overwhelmed didn't know what the right answers were and felt well

39:01i'm the boss everyone's coming to me for answers it's like just because you get a new title

39:05doesn't automatically give you years of experience or knowledge or skills that you didn't have before

39:10like you got a new title but you have more responsibility now but those skills in that

39:15experience you got to earn you got to pay the price for that and that's that that takes place

39:19in the arena so people want to know more about your book and your company and the work you do

39:24and

39:24they're like hey man i really like what what he's talking about and i think this may be helpful in

39:29my

39:29organization what are the best ways for them to learn more or engage with you get involved

39:34well thank you for asking that and again i'm compelled to thank you for the opportunity for

39:38the conversation right anytime i get a chance to share the message i'm i'm i'm game we've touched

39:44on my book a couple of times it's a usa today and wall street journal bestseller it's called begin

39:48with we 10 principles for building and sustaining a culture of excellence it's available wherever books

39:53are sold and to reach me directly my website is kyle mcdowell inc.com and i'm on essentially every

39:59social platform with the same handle kyle at kyle mcdowell inc and i share and i appreciate you asking

40:04because i share those not for vanity reasons or to create followers or any nonsense like that i actually

40:10use it as a genuine connection and communication conduit so i hear from readers daily and that's i would

40:16invite your audience for folks that either think that there's something here in my work to help them

40:21not just exist in their role but actually thrive and have an impact and create a leadership legacy

40:26you know something a lot of us have never talked about or even think about and those are the the

40:30mediums by which i i've found the most success and traction with with interacting with folks that

40:35that that want they're hungry for a better way sure that's that's where i come in awesome thank you so

40:41much it's been a pleasure visiting with you and i hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as i did

40:44thank you mason

40:53you

40:55you

Accountability vs. Ownership (And Other Differences That Change Team Performance) | Kyle McDowell

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended