- 2 days ago
What causes successful companies to spiral into chaos as they grow?
In this episode, leadership strategist, customer success expert, and author Jennifer Doty breaks down the hidden leadership mistakes that create organizational friction, poor customer experiences, communication breakdowns, and stalled growth inside otherwise successful businesses.
Drawing from more than 30 years of experience across leadership, operations, customer success, and organizational transformation, Jennifer shares practical strategies CEOs, business owners, executives, HR leaders, and team managers can apply immediately to improve alignment, simplify operations, and scale without losing momentum.
This conversation goes deep into:
• Why fast-growing organizations often become internally misaligned
• The leadership communication failures damaging customer experience
• How silos quietly destroy collaboration and profitability
• Why listening is one of the highest leverage leadership skills
• The connection between trust, alignment, and execution
• How leaders accidentally create chaos while trying to grow
• Why involving frontline employees improves decision-making
• The danger of chasing “shiny object” solutions
• Metrics that actually matter versus metrics that create noise
• How to scale profitably without overwhelming teams
• Why mindset and internal beliefs shape leadership effectiveness
Jennifer also explains why “10X thinking” creates better strategic decisions than incremental growth thinking, and how simplifying processes often produces faster growth than adding more complexity.
If you are leading a growing company, struggling with internal communication, improving customer experience, scaling operations, building stronger teams, or trying to eliminate organizational friction, this episode delivers actionable leadership insights you can implement immediately.
Key Takeaways:
✔ Poor alignment is usually a leadership problem
✔ Customer experience problems often start internally
✔ Teams perform better when leaders create psychological safety
✔ Quick wins create momentum and trust
✔ Listening is one of the most underrated executive skills
✔ Scaling requires simplification, not additional complexity
✔ Leaders must stop waiting for permission to take action
⏱ Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Leadership and Customer Success
02:31 Listening as a Leadership Tool
05:18 Understanding Customer Needs
07:47 Internal Dynamics and Customer Experience
10:40 Breaking Down Silos for Better Collaboration
13:16 Navigating Difficult Situations
16:05 The Importance of Alignment in Organizations
18:39 Setting Ambitious Goals
21:28 Metrics that Matter
24:09 Creating Momentum in Ambiguity
26:40 The Power of Mindset
29:24 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
Jennifer Doty:
https://jenniferdoty.com
Connect With Workforce Alchemy:
https://workforcealchemy.com/
https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
In this episode, leadership strategist, customer success expert, and author Jennifer Doty breaks down the hidden leadership mistakes that create organizational friction, poor customer experiences, communication breakdowns, and stalled growth inside otherwise successful businesses.
Drawing from more than 30 years of experience across leadership, operations, customer success, and organizational transformation, Jennifer shares practical strategies CEOs, business owners, executives, HR leaders, and team managers can apply immediately to improve alignment, simplify operations, and scale without losing momentum.
This conversation goes deep into:
• Why fast-growing organizations often become internally misaligned
• The leadership communication failures damaging customer experience
• How silos quietly destroy collaboration and profitability
• Why listening is one of the highest leverage leadership skills
• The connection between trust, alignment, and execution
• How leaders accidentally create chaos while trying to grow
• Why involving frontline employees improves decision-making
• The danger of chasing “shiny object” solutions
• Metrics that actually matter versus metrics that create noise
• How to scale profitably without overwhelming teams
• Why mindset and internal beliefs shape leadership effectiveness
Jennifer also explains why “10X thinking” creates better strategic decisions than incremental growth thinking, and how simplifying processes often produces faster growth than adding more complexity.
If you are leading a growing company, struggling with internal communication, improving customer experience, scaling operations, building stronger teams, or trying to eliminate organizational friction, this episode delivers actionable leadership insights you can implement immediately.
Key Takeaways:
✔ Poor alignment is usually a leadership problem
✔ Customer experience problems often start internally
✔ Teams perform better when leaders create psychological safety
✔ Quick wins create momentum and trust
✔ Listening is one of the most underrated executive skills
✔ Scaling requires simplification, not additional complexity
✔ Leaders must stop waiting for permission to take action
⏱ Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Leadership and Customer Success
02:31 Listening as a Leadership Tool
05:18 Understanding Customer Needs
07:47 Internal Dynamics and Customer Experience
10:40 Breaking Down Silos for Better Collaboration
13:16 Navigating Difficult Situations
16:05 The Importance of Alignment in Organizations
18:39 Setting Ambitious Goals
21:28 Metrics that Matter
24:09 Creating Momentum in Ambiguity
26:40 The Power of Mindset
29:24 Conclusion and Key Takeaways
Jennifer Doty:
https://jenniferdoty.com
Connect With Workforce Alchemy:
https://workforcealchemy.com/
https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
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LifestyleTranscript
00:06welcome to the mason dukajek show and before we jump in this episode is brought to you by
00:12workforcealchemy.com helping leaders uncover hidden profit leaks inside their business operations
00:18jennifer dody is a customer success and leadership coach and author of just lead and find the right
00:27role her work sits at the intersection of leadership client success and practical growth
00:32welcome to the show thanks so much mason excited to be here so when you talk about cutting through
00:39organizational noise when you walk into a business that feels chaotic what are the first signs that
00:46tell you where the real problem usually is yeah so in all my experience i've had gosh you know i
00:54don't
00:54know 10 12 different lives over the course of of 30 years of a career um and so i've had
01:00a lot of
01:00different types of roles and what i've learned is that it's really smart to do a lot of listening
01:06when you first take on a new role when you first enter a new company enter a new position if
01:11you
01:12listen with your ears and don't speak as much you will learn a lot about an organization and that
01:19includes you know meeting with your partner you know leaders meeting with the associates on on their
01:25on your team i often say to my team members and also some of my partners like if you could
01:31wave a
01:32magic wand what would you like to be different around here what what do you wish would go away
01:37what do you wish would be easier and like through that conversation you tend to get nuggets of things
01:42that you can focus on and areas of opportunity you know i pride myself in saying that you know why
01:49i'm usually put into a role is to help my team do their job better and to just get blockers
01:55out of
01:55their way or people out of their way or obstacles out of their way right and so when you when
02:01you
02:01listen you you hear a lot of it that's solid consistent advice i've had a guest on oh maybe a
02:08month or
02:08two ago neil marshall he was a uh i guess president of health search partners and he told me the
02:14story
02:14of a ceo a new hospital system i think it was in lubbock texas i'm not positive but um he
02:20basically
02:20told his wife when he got the job hey take care of the house get us moved and he literally
02:25moved into
02:26the hospital i guess where i guess where the residents sleep in between shifts or whatever slept on those
02:31bunks and literally lived at the hospital like you said he listened he observed and he experienced the
02:36things that others didn't wouldn't have noticed sitting in an office and you know he would ask
02:42some of the people like hey what do you think about this here and they'd be like these beds are
02:46really
02:46uncomfortable he's like well that's something i can fix and he after asleep he agreed but he listened
02:52and he took action with things that were easy to do fast to do showed immediate improvement and
02:59responsiveness and his start at that company was excellent i mean how could it not be yeah it's easy
03:04i find early on when you listen you can find to your point some quick wins right and so what
03:10i'm
03:10probably most proud of in my day job is i will have associates who come to me and they say
03:15you know how
03:16to get stuff done around here like you just get stuff done you move things forward and so it's really
03:21important i believe as a leader you know when you're looking to get people to all run the same way
03:28right and and sometimes be motivated when they don't feel like it right what are the things that
03:34you can do to do that and so when you can emulate i'm somebody who will roll up my sleeves
03:39and do the
03:40work with you if i need to it really it really does help but being a leader who can get
03:44stuff done
03:45you know whatever that looks like for you i think is also really important so i guess the answer to
03:50the question about first signs there would be people not listening i mean that that would be a dead
03:55giveaway in your experience where do companies most often misdiagnose friction in the customer
04:02value chain and what should leaders be looking at instead yeah i often find at many companies and
04:09many businesses that you get so wrapped up in what you're doing and you're so excited about your goals
04:16and your targets and your outcomes that you often don't sit back and think of it from the role
04:21of a customer right and what is most important to them what do they care about first and foremost
04:28because often a lot of the things that you're worried about the customer doesn't give a rats you know
04:34what about they just don't care it's not on their radar they want to either to have a better experience
04:41they want it to be easier they might want it to cost less like whatever the thing is that matters
04:47and i often talk about in the customer life cycle or a customer journey what are the moments that
04:53matter most right because it's not all of it it's certain parts of the journey and certain interactions
05:00with you as a company that matter right is it your customer service is it fixing problems quickly and
05:06efficiently for someone right what are those things that matter the most for them and then fine-tuning
05:13those things so you are the best at those things for the things that are within your wheelhouse
05:18so when a leadership team truly starts making decisions from the customer's point of view
05:23instead of their own internal priorities what happens well magic happens with the customer the customers
05:30are usually moving doing whatever they can to do more business with you to advocate for you to advocate
05:37for you with other people to be a referral we always talk about so so today i work at a
05:43company called
05:44three flow which is my nine to five part of my portfolio career and we have a platform a technology
05:50platform for group insurance carriers and brokers so think b2b right and so what we dream about is how
05:57are we the platform that carriers and brokers it's the only place they want to do business it's the only
06:04place they want to work because we make it so easy right and so those are the types of things
06:09that
06:09happen when you come at when you start making decisions and start having outcomes that are driven
06:15by the customer's point of view they flock to you which is what we have internally i mean obviously it's
06:23going to be a better customer experience if executed well but what happens internally i mean is that
06:26does that take a little bit of a learning curve or do people typically respond well to the shift from
06:32well i think and i believe and this is what i see to listen to what the customer sees and
06:37what the
06:37customer thinks and what customer believes i mean does that take discipline does that take constant
06:41reminders internally what's that look like it takes practice right and so when i spent 20 years of my
06:47career at metlife years ago one of the things we started doing from a customer mindset standpoint
06:53is we'd have an executive team meeting and we'd have an open share in the room and that share was
06:58for
06:58the customer to remind us visually and mentally that every topic we talked about what did that
07:05person who sat in that chair care about so it's a practice mason like people need to it's not something
07:11that comes naturally you know you might be in the finance department yeah it's not a natural thing
07:18yeah and the further you are away from the customer experience the harder it is right you know i did
07:24a blog
07:25post on this probably almost a year ago i went out to las vegas and i stayed at a very
07:30nice hotel and
07:32the experience was not and i'm not one to go online and bashing but it's not how i roll i
07:37want to
07:38contribute and try to help so i asked for the manager i said hey look i know people complain all
07:42the time
07:43but i'm not trying to bash you here i don't want you to get in trouble i know that your
07:46effort was there
07:47but there are systems in place and rules that you've put in place in this customer experience
07:51that make zero sense and are a terrible customer experience and they can be remedied easily and
07:57her response to me was i appreciate that yes but the best thing that you can do is actually go
08:03and
08:03write a bad review because the people that that make those decisions are above what happens here and
08:10they don't listen they don't stay at this hotel they don't pay attention to anything that we tell them
08:14unless they see it on a bad review that doesn't exist and i was just like wow like why don't
08:20you come
08:20and stay in your hotel experience what it's like feel what it's like to be a customer because if
08:25they did they they wouldn't have accepted what i experienced and i'm not like a high maintenance at
08:29all i mean these are basic simple things that were just and i don't want to go on a long
08:33rant about it
08:34but they were basic trust me when i say simple easy fixes that anyone could do but that poor manager
08:39was not empowered i mean her heart was in the right place but she didn't have the if she had
08:44responsibility but she didn't have the authority commensurate with that responsibility and i i felt for
08:49so what is one example of maybe a bottleneck between teams and technology that may have
08:55looked small on the surface but had a major impact on customer experience and revenue you know i would
09:02say there in my experience well there's been a lot of opportunities but i find often it's the small
09:09things and often what i've seen especially most recently is are the teams talking to each other are the
09:15people who do the work working together collaborating to unblock what needs to be blocked right and so
09:21what i love to do is like just get me the people who do the work in a room let's
09:26not talk amongst the
09:27executives anymore about what we're going to do and then we're going to like you know push it down on
09:31organizations and i've done this recently with our team i'm like nope i'm going to meet with the team
09:35of the people who does the stuff and i'm going to get them together and explain what we need to
09:39do
09:40why we need to do it make it clear on what outcomes i'm looking for and then i'm going to
09:44help micromanage
09:45the process until they start doing it themselves and it's miraculous what happens right you got to
09:50kind of teach people what you expect out of them and then recognize and validate them when they start
09:56doing the behaviors that you need them to do so like recently we've been following up with carriers
10:03and brokers around like making sure we're doing the right things on the platform and we're unblocking
10:08things that get stuck at different parts in the policy journey right and i pulled i you know i went
10:14to my boss and i'm like listen i know all these people don't report to me but i don't care
10:17i'm like
10:18this is for the benefit of the good are you all good if i have this meeting once a week
10:22yep yep yep do
10:22whatever you want fine so i pulled all the the doers together who run the relationships and say okay
10:28this is like the safest place you can be what is it you need to solve and unblock what's stuck
10:35and
10:36you'd be amazed at when people feel comfortable and safe that they share i'm like and we've had
10:42some topsy-turvy conversations and i've had moments where i'm like if you guys don't tell me what's
10:47broken i can't fix it and you know i like to fix things right and so when they clam up
10:52and they're
10:52like oh i'm not gonna say anything because she's here and you know i'm like no no tell me what's
10:56wrong
10:57so i can make it better right and so when you can be vulnerable as a leader to say i'm
11:03in this with
11:04you and we're gonna solve for xyz whatever it is you'd be amazed at what happens i also think
11:10sometimes it's helpful when you're not the boss of the team i'm like i'm just switzerland i'm just
11:16here to make it better like you don't report to me i don't really care but i'm gonna tell you
11:20what i
11:20need you to do right and so i think sometimes like shifting that dynamic a little bit mason also helps
11:26too
11:26because you know on paper they don't have to do what i say but for the good of the nation
11:31we're all
11:32here trying to work towards the same outcome silos are real and i think back to a company that i
11:39did
11:39business with this would have been 20 years ago it was a printing company and the sales manager and
11:45the production manager they didn't like each other it was like it's almost like the cold war it's like
11:50you stay on your side let them mind your business leave me alone i'll mind my business and peaceful
11:55coexistence if you will and one time i guess in the lunchroom one of the sales reps was sitting with
12:00one of the guys in production looks like you're saying not the bosses just two guys in two different
12:04departments sitting there having lunch and the sales rep was complaining like man i wish we could
12:08do this certain type of printing because i'm sick of of referring all of this this type of work to
12:15competitor xyz down the street who had who can do this what i would have made in commissions this
12:20year alone on stuff we referred out i could go on a couple vacations like this is ridiculous i wish
12:26we
12:26had the ability to do that in the production workers like well we can do that he's like what
12:32what do you mean we can do that he's like yeah no problem all i could do is this that
12:35and the other
12:35thing and of course we can and what they learned was and that's just one rep referring so not only
12:41did
12:42that company not get that revenue but their competitors got stronger that's a double loss and why
12:49because you had two managers that wouldn't talk to get us two silos and what was the solution exactly
12:55what you said yeah so i know you've written people i just one more thought i often say to people
13:01what
13:01are you waiting for permission for you have my permission are you waiting for somebody to tell you
13:07yes you may if you see something it's like i tell my kids if you see something that needs to
13:11be done
13:12would you just do it like you don't need my permission to go do that right so you've written about
13:17leadership lessons that a boss cannot teach you what are some of the most important ones and how did
13:24you learn them the hard way yes so my my first book which is called just lead and it's about
13:29what
13:30what a boss never or a book never would teach you but experience will and i think some of the
13:37most
13:37important learnings that i've had is how to navigate difficult people and difficult situations and through a
13:45lot of self-development work on my own i've learned it usually has nothing to do with you why someone
13:52is having a hard day showing up in a way that's not really needing you where you are right and
13:59so
14:00what are the what are the opportunities and how can you refer reframe and or change your own tone
14:08your own approach to meet that person where they are and a lot of it helps when you come from
14:15a place
14:16of vulnerability and saying like hey you know mason that conversation didn't really feel great for me
14:22i don't know how it felt for you but i know we're both just trying to move xyz forward and
14:28like how can i
14:29how can i help you right or i always love the phrase i need your help right when you say
14:34i need your
14:35help to someone their defenses usually come down at least a little bit right and they're thinking
14:41people genuinely show up every day wanting to do the right thing wanting to win the day even that
14:47might not look that way to you that's really people roll out of bed and and really want to do
14:51well
14:52right and so often people will meet you more where you are when you phrase things that way and ask
14:58for
14:58people's help plus it elevates their status like if if i know everything i wouldn't be coming down
15:04talking to you like hey i could use your help you bring value that i recognize like that's a good
15:09point in companies chasing growth where do you think leaders most often create friction accidentally
15:15even while believing that they're doing the right things and that it's helping yeah sometimes i've found
15:21you know people are often looking for the next new thing to solve for the growth challenges or the
15:29profitability challenges and often when you step back and you look at what already is in your plan
15:36what you are already doing what you can do more with what you have the answers you need are right
15:42there right and so it will often create chaos in an in an organization when you sign up for the
15:48next
15:48new shiny toy the next new shiny process whatever that looks like right and i find when leaders can
15:55step back and say oh look at the 10 things that were already on our agenda can we do them
16:00better
16:00can we do them faster can we do them more efficiently the answers you need are often often right there
16:05so
16:05that kind of leads me into another angle here i had someone on the other day it was a hannah
16:12bauer
16:13was her name and i asked her i said if you there's only one piece of advice you would give
16:17what would
16:17it be and what's the most important thing and she said alignment it she didn't hesitate for a second
16:23and in your opinion when an organization has ambitious goals but weak alignment what conversations
16:28need to happen before new dashboards kpis or tech tools can actually help you know you need to really
16:34get honest with yourself as a leadership team we have this exercise that we do at three flow often
16:39where we had a coach who taught us how to invite frank into the room sometimes i'll call her francine
16:45but like how can you really be open and honest and say okay i'm gonna invite frank in the room
16:50and
16:50i'm just gonna say what i need to say and this might not come out with all the right words
16:53but i
16:54need i need to get the words out right and so when you can when you can step back and
16:59be honest and open
17:00with your thoughts with your feelings with your opinion you'd be amazed at how things can change
17:06the dynamic of where you are headed as a leadership team because poor alignment is usually the result of
17:13lack of communication or lack of trust so it's usually a leadership problem or it is a we haven't we're
17:20not
17:21on the same page because we don't know what what each other is is doing in my opinion i think
17:25those are
17:25the two biggest bottlenecks to alignment well i because her answer caught me off guard but it really
17:31made me think i'll go ahead and tell the story again for those who didn't see that episode but when
17:36i was
17:3616 i had a fast car and i was a responsible teenager by any stretch of the imagination i made
17:41good grades
17:42dash on our society fleet like i kept my nose clean i avoided trouble hung out with good people
17:47made good decisions but my vice was i had a very fast car at 16 and i loved to go
17:53fast and in my
17:56mind as a 16 year old being responsible that meant if i wanted to go fast i would go out
18:01in the middle
18:02of nowhere on a straight stretch because i knew i didn't want to jeopardize anyone else i didn't want
18:07to have to worry about people cars coming on or off so i went somewhere where there was no traffic
18:11it was straight so that i knew that i wasn't a professional race car driver even though i was
18:16going to be driving those guys means i didn't want to have to work out turning or anything like that
18:19it's like hey i want to go fast and i want to see those light posts go boom boom boom
18:26boom boom boom boom
18:27boom boom boom and i did i did but what i learned from that about alignment if i'm going 60
18:32miles an hour
18:34and i steer a little bit i can go into the next lane it's no big deal i can go
18:38back into the lane i'm
18:39supposed to be in it's no big deal at a slow speed it's easy to adjust and stay between the
18:44ditches
18:44but if i'm doing twice that i'm covering twice the distance in the same amount of time and where it
18:50might take me one second to move into the lane to the next lane at 60 miles an hour at
18:55120 i'm in the
18:57ditch and i think about organizations and how important alignment is and like oh if you're going
19:02slow this is no problem you can adapt and adjust along the way no problem if your goal is to
19:08really
19:09go fast and i'm not saying you got to go from 60 to 120 i'm just saying that if your
19:14goal is to go
19:14really fast alignment matters if you're not going straight you're covering a lot more ground in the
19:19same period of time you you you will try run your company into the ditch so i really that conversation
19:25with her made sense and i love what you're talking about but especially about the communication and not
19:29not knowing what's going on i think you're dead on that so you've spoken about helping people
19:34find the right new role how does that idea connect to leadership and performance inside an organization
19:41yeah so i my second book was called find the right now role because i firmly believe that the role
19:48you're in is just the role for right now it's not going to be the role you're in forever this
19:52is not
19:5320 30 years ago where people started in one role and stayed at a company for 30 40 years i
19:59mean there's
19:59still a couple of those people out there but it's not the norm anymore and i really believe in leading
20:05and coaching a team in an organization being transparent and open-minded especially in this
20:12day and age with how fast things are changing to help people think about their careers a little bit
20:18differently and i'm very candid with my team i'm like listen if i can help move you into the next
20:23role
20:24here at three flow awesome but if not i'm happy to help you move into the next role somewhere right
20:30because i mean listen all of these all the folks that i work with are you know are definitely in
20:36the
20:36earlier stages of their career i'm like we're not going to be here till we retire i go maybe a
20:41couple
20:41people will but like most of us will not right and how do i help set you up for success
20:47for the future
20:47how i how do i impart some of my experience and wisdom to help you get out of your own
20:53way right
20:54how do i help you learn new skills and develop new capabilities like how you're going to leverage ai
21:02in your next job right that's what's really important to me and how i lead a team and how i
21:10lead
21:10people across our organization like i want you to be a better human when you leave here right and that
21:16you have how are you always working on your resume right like i learned the hard way after 20 years
21:22what it was like to go look for a job after 20 years in organization when when i started there
21:27was
21:27no linkedin mason there wasn't such a thing back in 2003 and then out i come and like oh i
21:34gotta do it
21:34this way like i don't really have a great network right and so teaching people how to always be on
21:42the
21:42journey of i am in charge of my career and the trajectory of my career and it's not up to
21:49somebody else right you you really need to be in the driver's seat much more today than years and
21:55years ago and i know there are some companies in my opinion should be encouraging that just like what
22:00you're talking about where some of them are fearful like oh they'll leave it's like if someone's on a
22:04path of constant never-ending improvement they're becoming incrementally more valuable in the role that
22:09they're in yes but fear anyway you'll get me on a tangent there what's your approach for deciding
22:17which metrics matter most and how do you keep leaders from drowning in measurements that do not
22:22really drive better decisions i mean i'm not obviously metrics are important but what's your
22:27thoughts on that um and oh back in the day man i had it i had a notebook of metrics
22:32like i'll never
22:33forget like the the amount of metrics that were tracked back in my prior lives were ad nauseum right
22:40and so i think it really and now i have an amazing opportunity like every quarter every year we focus
22:46on
22:46well what's the goal we want to grow the business by this and at this level of profitability awesome
22:51okay what are the things we need to do to move that dial and we break it down into targets
22:57right
22:57and make sure that they are all associated with what's that going to equate to if i do this one
23:03thing what does it get me when i'm done when i when i hit it right and um and so
23:08making sure it's very
23:10tangible on how the goal the quarterly goal equates to the overall target and then most importantly helping
23:18associates see where they are in that picture right because the further away you get from the goal the more
23:24you're like what is it that i do all day and how does it impact that thing up there right
23:29and so
23:29making it real for associates so they can see where they are apart along that journey and how they are
23:36helping drive that impact i think is super super important right that reminds me of a of a story of
23:43a young hr exec not the only exact young hr manager that really wanted to make a name for herself
23:49and
23:50one of the metrics that was i'm using air quotes for those who are listening and not watching one of
23:55the metrics was speed to hire like how fast can we get people because the people out in the company
24:01were like hey we need bodies we need them fast we you know we give me bodies yesterday i shut
24:07and
24:07the metric then became how fast can we do this and she accommodated those metrics cut a bunch of
24:13corners on pre-employment screening and pre-employment testing etc and oh they got bodies all right but they
24:19weren't the right fit for the job and they kept that's why they kept turning over yeah and when
24:24this young hr manager who cut corners because she thought speed was the metric that they should be
24:29paying attention to lost sight of well let me rephrase it she didn't lose sight of it she took that
24:34those statistics to her boss and thought she was going to get praised and the boss who had the wisdom
24:40saw a dumpster fire and said well the re why are these people turning over like this these are not
24:46the
24:46right fit we need quality speed's important but not at the expense of quality fit if we were doing
24:51this right the first time then you wouldn't have to replace this person the people in this position
24:56four times or five times in a year and so i and that's one particular case where metrics but that
25:02leader didn't really take the time to explain because everyone's so hustle and bustle and they
25:06were hurrying that that conversation that communication didn't take place it's like the the manager heard i'm
25:12going to be evaluated on my speed metrics this is a chance for me to make a statement and showcase
25:16my
25:17skills she cut corners quality suffered and it created more work and more expense and more hassles
25:24and headaches than doing it right the first time but that wasn't the directive she was given and i
25:29understood it can you think about maybe a time when a team was stuck in ambiguity what'd you do to
25:34create momentum and what can other executives learn from that example yeah often when you're unsure
25:39of what to do next it makes sense to step back and really talk about what's most important right and
25:47so one of the challenges my operations team had like last fall last summer was we needed to determine
25:54how we could be more scalable more you know how do we how do we scale how do we grow
26:00without on a from
26:02a profitable standpoint right and we we really stepped back and looked at all of our processes right which
26:08we thought were all very important and we were very tied to the level of the metrics that went along
26:15with those and how good those were right and so which was great but we really stepped back and said
26:21okay if
26:21we're going to do this more efficiently and more effectively how do we think outside of the box and so
26:26there
26:26was an amazing book that i read last summer called 10 times is better than two times right and it's
26:32the
26:32methodology of like thinking even bigger because when you think about two times growth mason there's
26:38a lot of options if i'm just going to double what i have well i could do it 40 different
26:43ways but if
26:44you're going to grow 10 times you got a lot fewer options to pick from if you're looking at the
26:50same
26:50time frame right and so i digested i summarized the book i used a little chat gpt i summarized it
26:56and sent
26:56it out to my team i'm like i know you're not gonna have time to read this whole thing but
26:59i want you to read
27:00four slides of the highlights and we went into that planning session that week and it really helped them
27:06think about well if we're gonna go big or go home we only have a couple options and that was
27:11when we made
27:11the decision to outsource 100 of our transactional work because we said in order if you're just gonna go
27:17here well i got 50 different ways i can get there but if you're gonna go here in the same
27:22time frame we
27:24don't have that many choices right and so it allowed us to collectively as a as a team
27:29rethink what options were possible right and so we really spent the time on saying is there any
27:36reason why we wouldn't outsource 100 of the transactional work go and everybody around the
27:42room talked and you know raised their concerns and i'm like okay well what if i said we're gonna put
27:47guardrails about accuracy fine i feel better about that what if i told you we're gonna give you guys the
27:53opportunity to sequence the workflows in the right way so we're not moving it all at once okay i feel
27:59better right and we got ourselves to a place where we made a really hard decision that impacted people
28:05and restructured the organization within four months but we felt good about it right and i'd say good
28:11enough about it right and that was huge that was huge for where we're headed we saved you know we
28:17not
28:17only saved money we were able to scale we now have the ability with vendors to turn up the dial
28:22or turn
28:22it down which can't do with with resources with full-time resources right so it makes us much more
28:28flexible there's there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said i think uh back to one of my
28:32favorite
28:32books was tim ferris's book four hour work week and what he talked about was the concept of setting
28:39unreasonable goals because there's less competition there yes same thought if i want to be the best xyz
28:47company in new york city well i'm competing with every other company that thinks that they can be the best
28:53in new york city if i want to say i want to be the best in the united states then
28:57that's fewer
28:58because there's people that are only thinking about new york city aren't thinking about what's
29:02necessary to if i want to say hey i'm going to be the biggest in the world that is a
29:06very very small
29:07one that's the difference what you're talking about growing two x versus yes the there's and uh one of my
29:13favorite quotes his book tim said it's easier to go into the to a bar and walk out with the
29:19one
29:19perfect 10 than it is to compete with everyone else for the for the five eights that are there
29:24because everybody thinks everyone thinks the five eights are achievable and they don't even think
29:30about what's possible beyond there and there's less competition there so i love what you're saying
29:34about the 10x thinking versus the 2x thinking i that's very very valuable for anybody watching or
29:39listening if there was just i know you've got a ton of wisdom you've written multiple books and
29:43ton of wisdom and lots of life experience if there was just one piece of advice
29:47you could give to those who are listening today what's the most important piece of advice you could
29:52offer and why the most powerful thing i've learned is our biggest challenge is what happens
29:58between these two ears so if you can think about the beliefs that you believe to be true and
30:04really sit down and diagnose and dissect are they really true and what are the beliefs that you
30:11want to be true and how there's evidence of that already in your life right the noise that happens
30:18in our head is the one thing that holds more people back than anything else it's not your boss it's
30:25not
30:25your team it's not the industry it's not ai it's what's happening in your head and if you can quiet
30:31the
30:31noise and rewrite those beliefs anything that you want is possible and i am a witness and an example
30:38of that i have recreated my life i have recreated my identity i'm building a portfolio career if you
30:45told me at age 30 this is what i'd be doing i'd said you're nuts mason this is never possible
30:50nobody's going to allow me to do it well you know what i've allowed me to do it i gave
30:55myself permission
30:57i'm gonna pull i'm gonna pull your line from from from earlier in our conversation you don't have
31:02to ask for permission stop asking for permission you know the only person you have to ask permission
31:06of is yourself amen to that and that is hard to do i mean are you gonna ask yourself permission
31:12to earn
31:12more money are you gonna ask yourself permission to have a balanced life that you love and not
31:18a job that you're counting down the hours and the days until you can retire you're the only person you
31:23have to ask permission of so for people that want to know more about you your company your work
31:28your speaking engagements your books what are the best ways for them to learn more or to connect with
31:33you absolutely you can find you can find me on linkedin jennifer syrivel doty or you can also
31:38find me at jennifer doty dot com on my website either way you can contact me awesome you want
31:43to give highlights about your books yeah so you know just lead was my very first book it was part
31:51of my journey to get myself figure out how to get on linkedin right and so it's a culmination of
31:57all
31:57my linkedin posts because i had a recruiter back in the day when i started looking for a new role
32:01from metlife who said you liking things on linkedin this is not facebook that is not visibility you need
32:08to be a voice and i was like oh i mean i was panicking i was panicking at the time
32:13but i started
32:14to author what they never told me about being a leader and it's a culmination of all those things
32:20that i put together in a book i had a dear friend who called me after four months of me
32:23posting three
32:24times a week he goes put that in a book people will buy it i'm like really he's like yes
32:30he's like
32:30that's all the words of wisdom that anybody anybody could need so that was my first book in 2022
32:36and then in 2024 i got a lot more vulnerable and i wrote a book about my journey from the
32:42day i got
32:42the phone call that my role was being eliminated after years of doing it myself i got the call and
32:48i'm like oh okay now it's me here we go all the way through the first 30 days of my
32:53current role at
32:55free flow and all the things people don't tell you about that process how to leave a job gracefully
33:01with your head held high how to build a network from just about nothing on linkedin on how to make
33:09a job out of looking for a job without driving yourself stir crazy how to solve for benefits how
33:15to think about your taxes like all of the things how do you like make income in the meantime to
33:20stop
33:21the bleeding so you're not going into your savings or your severance right all of those things nobody
33:26tells you but that along the way i learned and so now it's very often when someone will call me
33:32and
33:32say i just got laid off i bought your book and i'm like well it'll help because there's a lot
33:37of things
33:37in there that you know people don't people don't know well i'm very thankful for the time and wisdom
33:43you shared it's been a pleasure having you and hopefully we get together again sometime soon and
33:48and talk about other aspects of the things that we have time to get into today but i really
33:52appreciate it it was a pleasure having you thank you thank you mason appreciate it
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