Brand, Process and Execution: The Formula Behind Business Growth

Workforce Alchemy

What happens when your marketing is working, but your business is not ready to capitalize on the opportunity?  Michael Trkolta has spent more than 25 years across business operations, marketing, publishing, product development, print, and digital growth. As Managing Director of Network Media Group, he has helped businesses improve brand visibility, digital strategy, marketing execution, customer acquisition, and growth.  In this episode of The Workforce Alchemy Show, Michael joins Mason Duchatschek for a practical conversation about what actually makes marketing work.  One of the biggest lessons is simple:  Marketing cannot operate in a silo.  A company can spend heavily on advertising, create brand awareness, generate qualified leads, and get prospects through the door. If sales, customer service, follow-up, or internal processes fail after that, the marketing investment can still be wasted.  Michael explains why growing businesses need the right people in the right roles, clear processes across departments, measurable KPIs, and a strong understanding of the customers they are trying to reach.  Mason shares a story about a mobile home dealer who believed his radio advertising was not working. While discussing the problem, a prospect walked in, asked about a product, and was handed the keys by a salesperson who barely engaged with him.  The advertising had worked.  The execution had failed.  That leads to a bigger question:  How do you know which marketing channel deserves credit for a sale?  A customer might see a social post, hear a radio ad, encounter a Google ad, watch a YouTube video, recognize your brand somewhere else, and then finally contact you.  Michael explains why business owners should focus less on isolated activity and more on measurable commercial outcomes.  The conversation also explores why brand may become even more important in the age of AI.  As more consumers use artificial intelligence to research businesses and ask for recommendations, recognizable brands may have an advantage. If customers already know your name, trust your reputation, and associate your company with a specific outcome, they can look for you directly.  Mason and Michael discuss examples including Coca-Cola, Red Bull, Ironman, and Bondi Sands to explore why strong brands become more powerful than the product alone.  A major takeaway:  People do not just buy products. They buy stories, identities, experiences, and brands they connect with.  The discussion also covers how business owners should evaluate a marketing agency.  Ask:  • What results have you produced before? • What market are we actually trying to reach? • What KPIs will we measure? • What commercial outcome are we working toward? • How will results be tracked? • Are you willing to challenge us when our assumptions are wrong?  A strong agency should do more than create activity. It should connect marketing investment to meaningful business outcomes.

Transcript

00:05welcome to the mason duke check show and before we begin this episode is brought to you by

00:12workforcealchemy.com the place where business owners and executives go to uncover and address

00:18profit leaks hidden in their everyday operations today's guest is michael tricolta managing

00:24director of network media group and a digital specialist with more than 25 years of experience

00:31across business operations marketing product development print publishing and digital

00:38through network media group and its brands including web oracle amper brand and premium

00:44links michael has helped businesses think more clearly about digital growth brand visibility

00:51marketing execution and the operational systems that support scale michael welcome to the show

00:57we're really glad to have you well thank you very much mason it's great to be here and i hope

01:03you

01:03guys are enjoying the nice warm weather it's quite cool here over here in melbourne and i'm looking

01:07forward to speaking with you today well you have demonstrated huge commitment because i know it's

01:143 30 in the morning there in australia and it's about 2 30 in the afternoon here in central florida

01:20so i appreciate your commitment and i've been looking forward to us visiting the whole time so i i can't

01:26wait to dive into it thanks for for uh joining us today thank you very much i had a good

01:30early

01:31night so i got to bed quite early so i've got my eight hours sleep i'm ready to go so

01:36i know you've

01:37worked across print publishing digital marketing and business operations more than 25 years what patterns

01:44do you see when a company's marketing starts to become a true growth engine well there's a few

01:50things that that kind of happen that align you you have a really good foundation of very good people

01:56that start to start to accumulate in the business one of the things that i do see that break down

02:02and that are very quickly fixed is having all the aces in all the right places as sandra leon one

02:07of

02:08our marketing director would say and once you get the right people in all the right places things start to

02:13come together because they can pull a team together in a way that makes the the engine work

02:19and that foundationally is probably one of the most important things that you can do growing pains are

02:25always inevitable when every year in business and you know when when growth is there you know it's

02:31very capital and intensive and balancing that is a very difficult thing to be able to do looking for

02:36ways and opportunities to to grow is very important rather than the standard types of things that

02:42people would normally do um and it's not any one thing it's a it's an accumulation of a lot of

02:49different little things that other people aren't doing that's where you see the growth and and the

02:54ability to people cohesively come together but working as a team as well not in silos and not knowing what

03:01the other person's doing you should be having regular meetings on a regular basis those infant stages

03:06in inaugural stages of business they generally tend not to do that until the penny drops one day and

03:12then they come together and they think hang on this is what we really need to be doing and that's

03:16when

03:16it starts to take off for the longest time i didn't really understand the difference between sales and

03:21marketing as an early career professional and i was fortunate enough to meet a guy by the name of

03:25alan minster years ago and we ended up writing a book together in 1999 which makes me feel totally old

03:30now

03:30but he was the first person that really helped me understand the difference between sales and

03:35marketing he said mason marketing is like planting the crop in the springtime you kill the bugs you

03:39water the soil you fertilize it and give it time to grow he said sales is a harvest but so

03:45often

03:45people try to harvest where no crops been planted or worse they don't bother to follow up and someone

03:49else comes along and reaps rewards for your effort i'm not saying marketing is everything but it does rank up

03:54there with oxygen well it's it's important and i'm curious what should a ceo do when they are spending

04:05marketing or spending money on digital marketing but can't tell what if anything is working well there's

04:13there's that you you've got you have a great toolbox in terms of being able to identify where those

04:18opportunities are never ever take anything on face value look for ways first of all i really do like that

04:24analogy and i use that analogy in a similar kind of a way slightly different but it is very very

04:30true

04:31you've got it you've got to plant the seeds to to get the growth and build those relationships and and

04:37nurture them to to get to a point when people are ready they're ready to come but more importantly

04:42where where what you look for in marketing is really outcomes what are the outcomes that are that

04:49are out there for you that you could actually capitalize on depending on the sector that you're in

04:53identify who your market is understand who your market is if you don't know who your market is

04:58yep your swimming lane is very wide you need to narrow it down to an area where you feel very

05:02comfortable and you need to understand that market space nurture that that that that particular space

05:09very very carefully and really understand what outcomes you should be getting out of that what

05:15are the kpis you should be hitting is the audience the right audience how do we approach them what do

05:21we

05:21need what tools do we need to be able to communicate with them these are the things that i tend

05:26to look

05:26for whenever i'm out there in the field looking for opportunities with my team we identify we have a we

05:33have a whip we sit down for a couple of hours and work out what the strategy is going to

05:38look like once

05:39we understand that strategy we then start to hone it dive deep into the weeds to identify exactly where

05:45those opportunities are who those people are that we need to talk to have a look at their background

05:51understand what field understand the field a little better and identify where their opportunities are

05:57and then we have those conversations with them moving forward obviously you've got inbound leads

06:03that come in through different types of activities but for the ones that are outreach you really need to be

06:07spot on because no one really gives you the time of day you get about a new york minute to

06:12be able to sort of

06:12pitch anything that's worthwhile now if you've if you've hit the mark and they recognize that you

06:17have you then have to prove that you can actually deliver that but they're always looking for a

06:22result and in today's market space you've got to be very pin sharp um and you've really got to be

06:27able

06:28to identify that opportunity for them and if they know it's a pain point they're going to talk to you

06:34well i think i'm gonna and i'm gonna ask you to expound on this in a bit when it comes

06:38to being able to be

06:39very precise about what's working what isn't because in the basic sense i think a lot of

06:43businesses particularly small ones maybe not so much the big ones so maybe they screw up some basic

06:48stuff and i will tell you a very it's an ulcer i actually wrote about my first book the one

06:52called

06:53sales utopia back in 1999 but it was a story of a friend of mine ran a radio station and

07:00sold radio

07:00advertising and there was a mobile home dealer in about seven miles south of their station that had been

07:08advertising with him for a long time and he stopped by one day to see the owner say hey how

07:12are things

07:12going and the owner's like i don't think we're going to advertise with you anymore he's like really

07:16why is it it doesn't work he's like well what tell me can you expound on that what do you

07:21mean he's

07:22like well our sales aren't any haven't gone up we didn't spend all this money in advertising

07:26meanwhile while my friend he was a general manager of the radio station it's not like i mean he he

07:31ran this

07:32ran the station so he only answered to the owner and he said well like i care about all the

07:37businesses in this community and if you're this isn't working for you i need to know why can you

07:42can you tell me a little bit more and literally while he's having this conversation with the owner

07:47they're in one of the mobile homes that they were using as an office a prospect walks in

07:53says hey uh you know i was wondering about this whatever model they had the salesman doesn't get up

08:01doesn't greet him doesn't say anything literally leans back in his chair grabs the keys off of the uh

08:07off of the wall chucks him at him says hey here you go check it out let me know if

08:11you have any

08:12questions and goes back to reading his magazine or whatever he was doing rookie mistake my buddy

08:18looked at the owner of the of the of the mobile home lot and said i know what your problem

08:23is

08:23and it's not advertising our job is to get someone who is qualified and interested

08:30to think of you when they're ready to buy and to walk in your door and i just watched that

08:34happen

08:35and i also watched what happened when our silo i.e marketing stopped and you're shifted to the sales

08:42silo and that guy reached back grab thing doesn't know their name doesn't have the phone number doesn't

08:47know how they heard about you doesn't know anything literally or what the prospect does or doesn't like

08:51about the thing literally threw him the keys and said he goes if if you're not going to make that

08:57effort he was very tactful because you're not going to make the effort to capitalize on the

09:01leads that do come through then you are wasting your money absolutely and and i i think you said

09:08a lot when you talked earlier about you mentioned the the silos like it's important for people to

09:15understand who's responsible for what and integrated how it works together anyway i i'm ranting this is

09:20your area expertise but that was a that was a hot spot for me when you mentioned that i was

09:24like oh yeah

09:25he's right yeah if there was just one piece of advice you could give to anybody listening with

09:32all of the knowledge and experience you have if there was just one piece of advice you'd give

09:35anybody listening what's the most important piece of advice you could give and why well it's not just

09:41the one piece it's there's just so many moving parts and and i'm just i want to talk to your

09:45point

09:46there in in terms of getting that prospect coming through now that could happen many times now

09:51understanding your processes processes are critical in anything that you do if i had to give you one

09:56piece of advice it would be solidify those processes right across the board understand what each

10:04department does and make sure they do it well test them regularly make sure you have you know a training

10:11manual and ask those questions test them on a on a regular basis add things there's always things that

10:17changing continuously but those processes those fundamental components and line items within

10:23those processes need to be adhered to because you know you you could be the radio is a long-tailed

10:30type of approach and it's it's more awareness and we we use radio we we we advertise through radio

10:36regularly and we we know what it does but that's one layer you know there's so many other layers that

10:42you can drill down that's more of a top of the funnel type thing but that top of the funnel

10:46type thing

10:46someone's driving around in their car they've heard okay well i i need a you know motorhome and

10:53okay but i just can't remember who that was and then eventually they might hear that again and

10:58remember who the name they show up on the lot and bang no one's there to help them now that's

11:05a process

11:05problem right there why are you sitting in your chair throwing me your keys you should be getting up

11:09out behind from your desk walking straight up greeting me offering me a cup of coffee and let me take

11:15you

11:15through the whole process now this is where my process starts i'll take you through the mode of

11:20home this is how it works what it is and talk to someone engagement is critical that's another line

11:26item in a process so understanding who your audience is knowing what the process is from start straight

11:33through to finishing the close is really the one piece of advice that i would probably suggest in this

11:39particular instance and it applies right across the board then there's the communication component into the

11:43other parts of the department that process those processes need to be seamless for for that customer

11:50that's come through from start the moment they've entered that lot to the moment that they've left

11:55they've got to feel like they're the most important person on that on that lot and what does that a

12:02good

12:02process so it's what tips or suggestions do you have and i know it's it's a little bit messy but

12:11i i can think back to that particular mobile home dealer it might have been radio

12:19and if they would ask well why why are you here they might say oh i heard your radio ad

12:24but it might not have been the radio ad it might have been hey i saw a google ad pop

12:28come across my

12:29phone or i saw a facebook ad pop across my phone or i saw a youtube video that featured your

12:34company or

12:35someone shared a post on a social and i found out about you maybe i saw an ad in the

12:39newspaper

12:39and then while i was driving today then i heard the radio ad like oh i decided i'd come over

12:44so

12:44the radio ad might have been the final thing but all those other things did their job too

12:48what advice or guidance do you have for companies to help them identify

12:54the relative value of each of those elements in the total marketing picture

12:59well there's lots of things you can do depending on what the product is or the service that you're

13:04trying to pitch out in the space you should always have a marketing budget you can't survive without a

13:09marketing budget in today's market people are very savvy businesses are very savvy from medium small to

13:14medium type of enterprise through to enterprise and larger you know what they all do successfully the

13:19ones that are successful the ones that are out in front of you all the time

13:22mason they're the ones that are advertising now they do have various channels and they've probably

13:27got very large budgets comparatively but you should certainly be allocating a percentage of what you

13:34do to a marketing budget whether it be five to fourteen percent depending on the size of the

13:40business but put it in a place where you feel you're going to feel comfortable so that's going

13:44to come down to research for you you're not going to be able to compete on on an enterprise level

13:49if

13:49you're a small to medium type of business but you can do the research and your research would

13:54probably be just as good as theirs at any point and you can deal with your local community so there's

13:59your local market on a larger scale great if you've got the opportunity to be able to hit every channel

14:05up and and and and split test as you go along even better but to starters businesses small business to

14:13medium-sized business find your community find your people find your tribe and market to them and

14:19split test see what works no marketing is going to work overnight if it did everyone would be doing

14:24it and everyone would be retiring pretty quickly or selling up businesses and doing other things or

14:28moving over to florida for example but it's it's it's it's not a it shouldn't be a hit or miss

14:34thing

14:34it should be a very strategic process again i always drive process where you analyze the market space

14:44find out where those people are what the best channel is going to be and use the money that you

14:50can

14:50afford to put in it over a period of time work out what the lead time is going to be

14:54divide your mark

14:55money up along that timeline and let's say it's radio for example you know you're you're going to get

15:01the c-suite the business suite in the mornings so business people tend to leave for work anywhere

15:06between five o'clock and seven a.m they're the they're the head ponchos of the business and generally

15:12business owners the first people in through the door so they're listening to the radio on the way

15:16in so if you want to if you want to do radio that's probably the best time to do it

15:20you're not going to

15:20be doing it through 9 a.m through to 3 p.m why they're not they're not they're too busy

15:27to be listening

15:27to any type of radio but when they're getting home and if you're a medium or towards enterprise and

15:33it's a local area station you might be able to hit them up around the news time depending on their

15:39age

15:39demographic then you've also got the complexity of you know someone a little junior in their younger

15:46years who generally like to listen to things on demand now if they're listening to things on demand

15:51well you need to find other creative ways like spotify podcasts various other places to be able

15:57to advertise so know where your market's going to be research the company that you're going to do

16:02business with understand what market they have and what the market share is work out what your cost

16:09per conversion should be and then find the right fit for yourself to be able to do it so budget

16:16is

16:17critical and having your the right type of audience is critical and timing is critical depending on when

16:24they listen or read whatever it is that you or whatever type of platform that you are looking to

16:30advertising now's an interesting time to be having these conversations to me because i've been

16:35involved in conversations where people like i just think advertising for awareness is throwing money

16:41out the window like i spent x thousands of dollars to have a full page ad in the back of

16:46a magazine and

16:47we didn't get a single lead or a single phone call or whatever it may be but then again you

16:52think about

16:52the opposite of that side and people can't buy from a company can't buy a product they don't know

16:59exist from a company they've never heard of before and at some point in time they have to know who

17:03you

17:03are and i really think that now i remember back in the day when if i wanted if i had

17:09a business and i

17:10wanted to advertise it i would be found in the phone books in the yellow pages it'd be and it's

17:17alphabetical hey i'm going to name my business aaa automotive or whatever aaa dry cleaning because i'm

17:23going to come up first and i'm going to get more visibility by someone who's looking for dry

17:26clean because that's the way the system is structured to unite people who have products

17:31and service to offer with people who are looking for them then comes the internet with google and

17:35now it's like hey i need to find a way to be on the first page of the google results

17:41so now you've got a whole new ecosystem that's involved or been has evolved to where businesses

17:48are competing to get found or they're paying for advertising to discover when people search for

17:53those types of things and that to a large event i mean it's not it's not going away anytime soon

17:58but

17:58now you've got ai where people aren't just going saying hey i'm looking for a dry cleaner

18:04near in wichita dry cleaners or melbourne auto repair they're not looking for that they're going to ai

18:12and say this is what's broken with my car who around here is best to fix it and expect an

18:18ai to do

18:18all the analysis look at all the reviews pricing and make recommendations and i think that brands

18:27who are and this wasn't my idea i'm going to give credit alex harmosi was talking about how he believes

18:33that branding is so important right now because it is future-proofing your business against the shift

18:39of ai so if all of your large amount of prospects or potential customers are going online and they're

18:45typing into ai hey how do i get this and you're not the one or two recommended you're out of

18:51luck

18:51and who wants to get involved in that race trying to to to compete with every other company in the

18:58world that wants to sell product a to your market in your town and have ai recommend you i mean

19:05that is

19:06such a talk about trying to take a needle through a i mean something small like good luck with that

19:14but harmosi made the point that if people know your brand and think of you when they're ready to buy

19:21that future proofs you against a ai searches and people will just go and look for you directly and

19:26they'll find out about you there and i think that that was brilliant insight on his part what's your

19:31take well i i has a place everything has its place and you're right you you know you if you

19:38want to

19:39be recognized you've got to have that brand awareness brand awareness is the single most critical

19:43thing that people trust like coca-cola i'm just pulling that out of the out of the out of the

19:49sky

19:49that's brand people trust they don't need to advertise do they think about it do they need

19:54to advertise i think that they have so much residual advertising that they could stop for the next 10

20:00years and it wouldn't probably affect their bottom line in some capacity they're moving along with the

20:05market they've come out with coke zero no caffeine they've literally landed every every touch point

20:12that really is an issue in today's society and they've hit it quite well they'll advertise for

20:17a short period of time put it out the shelf people recognize pick up the bottle and say i got

20:21it but

20:22the brand is what they're buying you can put coca-cola and there are copies of coca-cola on supermarket

20:29shelves that almost taste identical but which one do you go and pick up you pick up the coca-cola

20:34that

20:34you know or pepsi that you know or the dr peppers that you know these all have uncompeting

20:40brands it's it's a little like medical companies they have different you know they have the main

20:45brand and then they have shoot-offs of all these different ones but the brand is the bit the people

20:49buy you've got to build that brand the brand is the strongest thing you can do and residual advertising

20:55or that top level top of the funnel advertising is what builds trust association with with associations

21:03that you can team up with will help the brand as long as the audience is right and this is

21:09why you get

21:10sporting companies sorry airline companies this is on a higher level of course you know united

21:16airlines i think they sponsored the the local sorry the the us team for soccer and i think there's a

21:23couple of other ones that you can sort of easily put together but there you go you're finding an

21:27audience that's at a stadium that'll pick up a drink or will fly somewhere and that that that

21:33collaborative association definitely helps so you've got to get your brand out there there is a cost

21:39to be able to be recognized and it's it's sometimes underrated but once you are you're

21:46starting to get some momentum and that's when the the middle to the bottom of the funnel starts to work

21:52very well the more recognition you get at the top of the funnel i call that the brand component

21:57is where it starts to funnel down into conversions i'm drinking that kool-aid like i am all in on

22:05what

22:05you're saying i mean right i mean and alex harmosi is the one that inspired me to really get it

22:12i looked through my wardrobe in my in my closet and i have polo shirts and i have brooks brothers

22:20suits and i have nice braining clothes i have nike athletic wear i have adidas athletic wear it's

22:25comfortable it's functional it's great stuff but you know what mikey doesn't pay me adidas doesn't pay

22:32me brooks brothers don't pay me i went out i literally bought five zero fifty workforce alchemy

22:41shirts and if i go to a i'm in central florida if i go to tampa bay buccaneers game guess

22:48what i'm

22:49gonna rep the brand and i'm gonna interact with tens of thousands of others that would never see it

22:56before if i'm gonna have workforce alchemy sponsor podcasts i'm gonna have workforce alchemy put out

23:01though we actually do we have a magazine called workforce alchemy the magazine like this is a

23:07thing and it's why because i believe in what you're saying and i am going to do everything that i

23:15can

23:16everything that i can and those are easy wins i gotta wear clothes every day anyway might as well wear

23:21something that promotes my brand and puts money into my business versus something that promotes

23:26someone else's brand and someone else's business and that's a choice i can make every day well i made a

23:31real choice so i got all kinds of different colors so but my point is is that i believe in

23:36what you're

23:36saying so much that even on a small medium or large scale i'm all in on it i am exactly

23:41convinced what

23:42you're saying is right and that that's why i was really looking forward to having this conversation

23:46with you so in your opinion how do you approach deciding whether a business needs better strategy

23:53better creative better technology or simply better execution well it's foundational again it all it all

23:59comes back down to the foundation we always look at the foundation in terms of what people are doing

24:03we're working with a couple of companies at the moment who are that enterprise level medium to

24:08enterprise level that really they've been around for 30 odd years they've got great staff you know

24:15they've got great product but they've lost something along the way now you've got to bring your

24:20audience along with you and this talks back to the brand now if your brand is a great brand for

24:2720 odd

24:28years and then the last five years it's dropped off or the last 10 years it's dropped off there's a

24:32reason for that because the product's not bad there's nothing wrong with the product the product's been

24:37proved tried and tested and people love the product people are still buying the product but your p and l's

24:44and you and you and you and you're you know your margins are just flat lined it's just flat lining

24:49so

24:49there's a problem somewhere so we look at where that problem is we identified it and where it normally

24:55kind of sits is the brand has lost its way amongst a certain group of people and you know you

25:03it's like

25:04having a tv personality or a an actor and if you were to ask let's say a 15 year old

25:11today who is bruce

25:13willis what do you think the chances are of them remembering who bruce willis is it's funny

25:21very low i i remember when uh right before michael jackson passed away i asked my son i go hey

25:27and

25:28he was little it's like hey you know who michael jackson is he's like uh is that janet's brother

25:32he had no concept that there was some global superstar now obviously once michael jackson passed

25:38and then he would became aware of what a global superstar he was but he had no idea

25:43he wasn't even born yet when michael jackson was a worldwide phenomenon i agree like i get it

25:49yeah so bringing all of that together and understanding where that fix needs to be

25:54um and looking at it and then coming up with a strategy to bring that audience along now you know

26:00the advent of digital has certainly changed the landscape in that historically you know you you have

26:07boards on on larger companies you have the ceo then you have the cfo cmo and what tends to happen

26:14everything gets caught up in a little bit of red tape or a lot of red tape in in some

26:19cases where

26:21they're not really across all the machinations of all the everyday runnings of a business but they're

26:28really good at at giving you advice around your pnls around certain elements of marketing and then

26:34filtering it down into the people that are on the ground but most times you'll find if you walk

26:40into an organization it's big small medium large whatever you'll find that people that are on the

26:47floor that are you know out in the field they have a better idea because they're dealing with people

26:53on a regular basis and if they're not converting in any way there's a reason for that that usually

26:59sits around middle to higher management now one of the biggest mistakes that i've seen made in the

27:05digital age is they haven't bought their audience along now you can take a fashion label for example

27:10and historically they've worked in a particular type of demographic but that demographic has grown

27:16old but still love their particular product but what they've forgotten to do because it's digital

27:22and they're not as savvy because of whatever reason they've forgotten how either to do it properly

27:30they haven't hired the right people and they've forgotten to bring that new customer profile into

27:36it that fits that demographic they've totally forgotten about it and they've just kept their eye

27:41on the people that they currently have what happens there in those cases the people that they have that

27:46come to them online start to drop off because there's opportunities elsewhere so they're

27:51scrambling trying to work out what the problems are when it's such an easy fix it's you need to

27:57market to this particular segment here and that's without diving too deep into the weeds bring them

28:02over bring them over find a way to communicate with that audience speaking to the same thing in terms of

28:08understanding what your budgets can be the same reasoning applies work out what you know what you can do to

28:15bring them along find out where they are talk to them and there's lots of different platforms that you can

28:20do

28:20that on but keep that momentum always keep your strategy fresh ready to go and keep updating and

28:28nothing stays fresh like a loaf of bread right i think um my gut and i could be wrong but

28:36my gut tells

28:38me that a lot of i don't care whether a small medium or even large type is they're overwhelmed and

28:42in the question i ask you about how do you approach deciding whether it's needs a better strategy better

28:48creative better technology or simple better execution the other one is longer duration sometimes they

28:53actually are doing something they give up too soon i'm not convinced that most of them are good at

28:59pinpointing what it is that's coming up short and it could just be one missing piece or one adjustment

29:05here or there that sets the whole thing in alignment and and i you're respecting from trying but i i

29:11think

29:11and i and i'm not saying that it's easy because it isn't but i really truly believe that a lot

29:16of these folks

29:16are they're doing the best they can but their best isn't enough because some of these are moving

29:20targets and what would have worked might work two months ago isn't going to work today but when it

29:24worked two weeks ago might not work today so it's it's a moving target there's lots of moving parts

29:29it's very very difficult to know and the ones that do know how to do it well i think they're

29:34killing it

29:35because of the fact that it's hard so when it so when it comes to companies that realize hey this

29:41might not might be this is beyond my ability when they can finally make like i don't have

29:47the ability to run all these different aspects of my business and stay on top of all of these moving

29:53parts and moving variables and shifting markets and keep up with this i might want to hire somebody

29:59professionally or profession outside group outside agency or whatever i don't want to oversimplify it but

30:06i will pay you a dollar every single time when i know that's going to generate me too

30:12and that's very hard for an agency to say well i can prove that i can generate for you two

30:16dollars

30:17worth of revenue for every dollar you invest in our services that's a whole different discussion but

30:20what are some how would i phrase this what are some questions that someone who is looking to

30:28hire an agency should ask and what are some good answers that would tell them that they're talking to

30:34someone who's likely to help them that's a fine question it's a very good question if you're

30:40looking at a digital agency and what are good answers what should they be asking and what kind

30:45of answers should they be listening for if whatever whatever you're looking for whether it's a digital

30:51agency you you've got to work out what your budgets are work out where your market is and then

30:56approach the right people you can't do everything you're right you can't do everything internally

31:00because you're so overwhelmed small businesses right through to medium type of enterprise they're

31:06always the shorter staff all the time budgets are tight and they need external help where they need

31:13external help is driving business through that front door that's all they need to be able to do

31:17now if you're looking for an external agency some of the questions you should be asking what type of

31:23work have you done in the past show me some examples of work that you've done

31:28most importantly one of the big ones for me is what's my return on kpi or kpis that you can

31:34provide right it's not rocket science now the amount of the amount of agencies that i see that

31:39you know and i'm not naming anyone but there are a lot of good agencies out there that there really

31:44are

31:45but you need to find them you've got to ask the right questions but what i want to know when

31:49i'm

31:50looking for a third party service is what's the demographic that you can bring in what would you suggest

31:56around my business that we can do to improve our bottom line but i want instant sales more than

32:03top of the funnel so there's all different types of marketing you can do but more importantly my

32:08burning question is always what's our kpi that we're going to look at over the next three to six

32:14months so you've got to be able to have the budget to sustain it for a period of time but

32:19the agency

32:19needs to come back and say to you here's a plan based around this logic this information that

32:26we've looked at this is these are the data points we believe this is where you should be investing

32:31but more importantly what they should be doing is creating a kpi chart not only for the client to be

32:38able to see but for themselves to be able to track and have everyone on the same page ask them

32:44how they

32:44work internally what are their touch points to make their process as smooth as possible to be able to

32:51deliver my outcomes the outcomes that i'm looking for so you should be that's something i was going

32:55to get at because it's real easy for for a agency to sit there and say oh look at all

33:01this impressive

33:02marketing activity that we have generated and we can prove that we generate it but what the business

33:07really needs is meaningful commercial outcomes absolutely 100 why would i invest one dollar

33:16if i'm not getting that second dollar back what's the point show me how you do it put some kpis

33:23in

33:24place nothing is a hundred percent proof but i can tell you you can mitigate a lot of that by

33:29coming up

33:30with a strategy that can impress someone and it talks back to that what you know that new york minute

33:36in

33:36terms of that opportunity understanding doing the research looking at all the moving parts within

33:42the business isolating what it is that they're trying to achieve working out where their market

33:47is and pitching to that particular market whether it be digital whether it be google ads whether it be

33:53meta whether it be whatever the case might be i want to see a kpi with an outcome and i

33:59want to make

34:00sure that you're within 10 of it so that is a critical component so i'm always happy to invest

34:06as long as there's some type of outcome everything that we've ever done in the past we've always

34:11looked at it in that capacity and it's always it needs to be process driven and i want to know

34:17the

34:17people i'm dealing with i don't want to be dealing with just anyone that's you know i'm speaking to as

34:22though they're buying lunch so i want i want to feel that they're invested in my business and they're

34:28absolutely you know committed to to an outcome they're prepared to go that extra mile and there are

34:35businesses that you know you can provide a brief to sorry agencies that you can provide a brief to

34:41they'll take that brief and that'll be it a good agency will come back to you and tell you and

34:45they'll push back if they feel that you're wrong they'll and they'll give you a reason why and then

34:49they'll give you the outcome on why they think that that's that's not the case in terms of what you

34:54provided so they should be able to push back and you should not be scared of that don't lean into

34:59agencies that push back on some of your ideas for the right reasons you're the business owner if

35:05you're the business owner you'll know what the right thing is and they'll provide the right logic so

35:10understanding what it is that they can provide you but making sure those kpis are justified along that

35:16timeline of that spend that you're actually investing it's there you're reminding me of a story

35:23from back in the day i was i went through college and i had an army rotc scholarship so joining

35:32the

35:32army as an officer and going through officer training to help pay for my college and when i

35:36got my degree and became an officer in the army i spent a lot of time with guys from the

35:40united states

35:41military academy at west point half of my officer basic class was comprised of west pointers west

35:45point graduates and i remember sitting we had a break in training one day and we were sitting around

35:51talking and i'm going to preface this comment but i think i think a lot of organizations make

35:55things overly complicated and they would be in a lot of cases we'd better off executing a simple plan

36:01very well than trying to do everything and hoping that something works and and i here's the story i'm

36:07going to share with you every i don't know if it's still the case but back then every west point

36:11graduate had to take boxing yeah as a class like like you'd have gym class or whatever everyone

36:19because a lot of people never been in a fight you schedule soldiers they want to say hey

36:23we're going to teach you how to fight and they makes sense and they has part of their training

36:28they taught them footwork they taught taught head movement they taught how to block how to move

36:33how to punch different punch combinations they taught them each of these people all the same thing

36:39and then they let them compete and there was one guy that these guys kept talking about

36:46that was terrible at all of it except for one thing he could hit harder than anybody and he

36:54knocked everybody out his footwork was terrible he didn't listen to his coaches he didn't do what

36:59his coaches said his head movement was terrible he didn't listen to his coaches his combinations

37:04were non-existent his coaches tried to teach him all these things but the way this guy looked at

37:08like everyone else is being taught the same stuff some of these people can execute this better than me

37:12he goes my strength is i can hit harder than anybody i'm just going to walk these people down

37:16and i'm going to hit them hard and i'm going to knock them out and he did it every single

37:19time

37:20to every single one now how does that apply to business well if you can find the one thing that

37:26you can knock everyone out on and you're not doing that because you're worried about all this other

37:30stuff that's working for all these other businesses that might be a mistake for you likewise though

37:35once you got that down not saying you can't learn some new things because you don't the market can

37:41adapt to you and you don't want to have all your eggs in one basket forever so you might want

37:45to

37:45start looking but start with the one thing that you can do better than everybody else and knock them

37:50out and expand and i knew where you were going with that because that is such a important part and

37:58this

37:58is where a lot of new businesses when they first kick off they do one thing well you know why

38:02because that's the idea that they originally planted in their in their head that they felt

38:08that could work and that they knew nothing else about business in a lot of cases but they knew that

38:15the idea was a good idea because no one else was doing it and you know they they had a

38:20lot of

38:20competition in the space but they knew there was a gap in the market and you know what they were

38:24very

38:25bullish about it and they made it work but over time as they grew growing pains obviously add more

38:30complexity and layers to to to what you do and you need to come up with more moves than a

38:36swiss

38:36watch at around that point so right so this is where the complexities start to come into play

38:42but you're right that that one move can get you it it breaks that glass ceiling for you and gives

38:49the

38:49opportunity but eventually you're going to have to learn how to duck dive move and and you know swing

38:57for the fences so that's that's the next level of business but you're right and i also think about

39:03one of my favorite examples is red bull you we talked about advertising earlier great campaign that

39:09if you're going to advertise at a baseball stadium like i grew up a st louis cardinals fan i grew

39:15up in

39:15missouri and i went to st louis cardinals baseball game from the time i was a little kid well it

39:20might

39:20not back in the day have been a big deal for red bull to have had a banner out in

39:25the left field

39:26wall for red bull but at a certain point in time executives red bull said everyone else is doing

39:30this coca-cola's out here pepsi's out here whatever and is this audience really our audience yeah we're

39:37getting millions of eyeballs but there are grandmas and grandpas that are going to cardinals baseball

39:42games they're probably not well not they're not they're not the ideal customer they're wasting

39:48dollars to advertise people who are not their ideal customer so what did they do now this was not a

39:54quick immediate thing but where everyone else is doing one thing they did the opposite because it

40:01wasn't a best practice they created their own sports their own events their own media channel i mean

40:05red bull rampage mountain bike competitions surfing competitions motocross and if they're going to

40:12be a motocross event guess what the people participating in that and watching adrenaline

40:16junkie type sports they're their ideal customer and guess what red bull's not paying major league

40:23baseball to have a little ad on the left field wall advertising the grandmas and grandpas they've got

40:28red bull on every single competitor's helmet they've got it on the broadcaster's microphone they've got it

40:33on the fencing that goes around the entire event so for a whole event you see nothing but red bull

40:38everywhere and is branded with those people now did that take vision did that take courage did that

40:43take guts did that take time yes but if you go to red bull's youtube channel right now and you

40:49see

40:49all of the channels they've got in the millions of subscribers and millions of views that now they

40:54get for free every time they put out a new event never mind how many times it gets shared and

40:59promoted

41:00and stuff by everyone else for free like those guys figured it out and i still think those guys were

41:05marketing geniuses and they had absolutely and i can't imagine what it would have been like to have

41:11been the ones presenting that to the executive team saying hey we know everyone else is doing this

41:15and these are all the best practices but we're not going to do any of that we're going to go

41:19this way yeah they were window right so they threw everything out the window not only did they get tv

41:27rights people paying them for tv rights no they don't have to pay for branding they've got their own

41:32branding every touch point within that event is literally owned by them how's that a loss that is

41:40genius it was and still is it works so can you share maybe a real world lesson from building or

41:49managing

41:49digital businesses that changed how you think about growth yeah i certainly i tapping on one just

41:54earlier is is is is is a company that we work with oh this is a different one actually where

42:00they came

42:01to us with a product that was in a brown bag and i looked at this was around the time

42:06here in australia

42:07when well we do you know what a sunbed is you guys know what a sunbed is where you close

42:13them and they

42:13have these lights and they're tan like yeah so they were made illegal because they they caused melanomas

42:23and australia is one of the highest places in in the world with melanomas you don't need to even go

42:28to a sunbed you just stand out in the sun we have a very thin ozone layer so the chap

42:33that owned the

42:35the actual tanning salon he came out and he said look my business is about to shut i bought this

42:41franchise they've given me a year to go they're only going to pay me out a very little amount and

42:45then

42:45i don't know what to do he was a 26 year old chap we looked at a brown bag literally

42:51came in with

42:52brown bag and we put an entire story around that brown goo that was tanning lotion so it was fake

43:00tanning lotion they went out and they basically tested it did everything they could to make it

43:06better than the next one we branded it up put it out um there's a company called bondi sands do

43:12you

43:12know i'm not sure whether you heard of bondi sands but anyway cutting a long story short they turned that

43:18into almost a billion dollar company by just going through the process understanding something

43:23different taking that similar analogy to red bull and saying you know they're not red bull's a drink

43:29at the end of the day you know they've come up with a way to give you wings to fly

43:33it's added caffeine

43:34i think it's taurine it as well that's all it is you know the story behind it right so you

43:40know what

43:41do you think of when you think of australia i think of kangaroos and what else do you think of

43:47the opera house right what's the other thing you think of gators or crocs crocs or gators one of

43:54those two yeah but what do you think of when you have what about fun water yeah what's the most

44:01famous

44:01beach in in australia you got me on that one i have not been okay well bondi so bondi sands

44:08opera

44:08house is their logo they put that together and marketed the whole thing put it out into every

44:14chemist now they buy on they sell online and they sell lots of it globally two young guys probably in

44:20their mid-30s now but within 13 years of you know close to a billion dollars over 500 million dollars

44:27that's not bad that's not bad but you know it's not about it's not about the product as much as

44:34it

44:34is about the story tell a great story and people will listen to a great story it doesn't matter

44:41where that story sits as long as that story sits in the place where people are ready to you know

44:47look

44:47and listen but you've got to capture their imagination you've got to be able to speak to

44:52them in their language and you've got to make a connection with what it is they're looking at the

44:57moment you do that you've got a coca-cola brand that'll just keep rolling out that's what they've

45:02done with it that is an incredibly valuable piece of advice and important observation i hope is not

45:09lost on the people that are watching or listening because i can't tell you how many brands and things

45:15that i'm aware of that i i actually take the time to learn the story like the iron man triathlon

45:20i mean

45:21that's one of the most popular athletic events in the world right now i've done a few of them so

45:25i'm all

45:26in on that too but that the story of how that started you got this naval officer sitting around

45:34a bar in hawaii with a bunch of his hardcore buddies and they're debating who's the best endurance

45:40athlete is it a someone is it a swimmer is it a cyclist is it a runner and they say

45:45well we don't

45:46know let's find out let's put together a race where you swim 2.4 miles which i guess was the

45:52distance

45:53around the bay or something like that yeah bike around the island which i guess was 112 miles and

45:57then let's run a marathon that's how they came up with things and whoever the guy that finishes first

46:02we'll call him the iron man that'll settle it we'll find out and now you've got millions of people

46:07all over the world that will pay a thousand bucks a piece just to sign up for that race they'll

46:13travel

46:13all across the world they'll spend a fortune buying bikes and gear and training and traveling and

46:18all this stuff to find out if they can do it too why because it's part of the story it's

46:24the brand

46:25it's it's an identity it's not like oh i'm a triathlete or i've done a triathlon it's like

46:30i'm an iron man it's not something i did it's who i am it's a brand that is aligned with

46:35people's

46:35identity because they've accomplished something that a lot of other people don't think it's even

46:39possible so i i completely i mean people get tattoos of an iron man on their leg i'm not one

46:49of them it's not my style but like people will permanently put permanent ink on their bodies

46:53to identify this brand with who they are as a human being because they've achieved something that

47:00had a story right absolutely and you know what it has to be walk down you know walk into a

47:07supermarket

47:08walk down any one aisle and tell me that you can't find about 12 different maybe 50 different

47:15types of chocolates they're all chocolate right chocolate is a base whatever flavor you add to it

47:20great that's all that's all good and well but what's the connection sometimes like you've got protein

47:26bars that are chocolate bars you have they're really becoming niche tell a story talk to a market

47:33segment and find that niche and speak to them in a way that they understand and it solves a problem

47:40for them whether it solves a problem or it scratches an itch that's your market but you've got to be

47:45able to tell a great story about your product you know what i think i'm so glad we're having this

47:51conversation because i you know in the spirit of authenticity i mean it's easy for me to sit here and

47:54talk and get expert advice and share opinions and things like that because i'm talking to brilliant

47:58people like i get to do that every day and i love it but i learn from the people that

48:04i speak

48:04to on these podcasts and i had a guest on back in maybe december or january luna battalia and we

48:11were

48:12talking about my brand my core business i have a company that provides skill attitude and personality

48:16based pre-employment tests to help companies hire the best people and avoid the worst i like that

48:21that's that's that's the blah blah blah blah corporate speak for what i have and what we do it

48:27doesn't really talk about that's a great thing no sorry to interrupt you motion that's a really

48:30important part of doing good business because you know the most important thing in business this is

48:37the back page stuff that people don't get to see up front which are the customers is the things that

48:42you do you know those things that you do out the back where you find the a team for that

48:48organization

48:48there is no organization that will succeed without the a team you don't have the aces to put in the

48:55right

48:55places correct that's correct and i didn't call in that so here's the thing though is i recognized

49:03from my conversation with her that i needed to go deeper that that is a product or service and it

49:08is

49:08a business but i'm not dealing with other businesses i'm dealing with people at other businesses and when

49:14i started thinking deeper brand wise and she got me to do this she said mason what do you really

49:19do

49:19and i said and we started talking about family businesses like in a lot of small and medium-sized

49:24town there's usually a couple big employers that everybody knows or a family name that's on the side

49:29of the building and a family business in a normal conversation if i'm talking to a business owner

49:35and we're talking about hiring honest reliable employees with the work ethic and basic skills

49:40and a good personality to work at their front desk saying oh we don't need that they're just someone

49:44that we pay minimum wage to they're on the front front lines really let's think about this if i

49:50come into your company and i deal with your front desk person and you just hire and hope and you

49:55just

49:55throw anybody out there and if they quit we'll just put someone else in there and i have a bad

49:59experience

50:00because that person isn't reliable they're not honest they're not hardworking they're not smart they

50:04don't have a good personality they don't treat me right i don't walk away saying what's the matter

50:08with this one person i say this business sucks this company because to me that one person is the

50:16company and they are the business and if and mr or miss business owner if your name is on the

50:20side of

50:20the building and people are walking away whether it's in person or on the phone or on the internet saying

50:26this company sucks because the person they dealt with there wasn't the right person then it's there's that

50:34old saying it's not just uh hey don't it's it's nothing personal it's just business like that's a

50:40good excuse to treat someone poorly because oh this isn't personal this is just business this is how

50:43business is this is what we have to do to make profit i go no no no no story-wise

50:47this is the exact

50:48opposite this is personal it's not just business it's personal when these people represent your mr or

50:56miss business owner when these people represent your name your legacy your reputation in a company

51:01this isn't just business it is personal and if you want to leave that to chance you go ahead

51:06but if you want to make sure that you get the best people and everyone else in your market gets

51:10the

51:10leftovers the ones that you don't need or don't want or then by all means this is how you do

51:16it and that

51:17gave me a different story and a different way of presenting my brand and what we do beyond any company

51:22that goes out there and says we offer pre-employment testing built by industrial psychologists that can help

51:27you find out what you're getting before you hire them or how to get more of your existing staff

51:31that's a way different conversation that's yes it's true and it's and that's what you do but it's not

51:36the impact of the work you do on a personal human level and there's there's not really that and that's

51:42why

51:42i started hitting on when you started hitting on on the story i'm like michael you are dead on with

51:50that and i was not gonna just let that slide yeah thank you i really appreciated that and i i

51:56feel just

51:56wanted to add to your point that that that first interaction it's like walking down a supermarket

52:01shelf or whether you're talking to someone that four seconds that first four seconds how easy is

52:07it to greet someone as they walk in through the front door meet you at reception and you're very

52:12polite to them that is just that's an icebreaker right there can i get you a cup of coffee would

52:19you

52:19like something can we offer you a drink of water whatever the case might be please take a seat in

52:23the

52:23boardroom they'll be right in anything you need we're right here won't take too long simple right

52:28some people make you just sit down don't ask you about anything and then they just keep talking on

52:32the phone playing on their phone or not even ignoring like like you're interrupting their day

52:37yes oh i'm sorry but you know you get it right so it's not it's a story again even a

52:43business that

52:44is new whether it's been around 50 100 200 years whatever the case might be that story needs to be

52:52at every touch point someone's got to have a story in term in terms of their brand every person

52:58in that organization is part of that brand and they need their own story they need their own processes

53:05so having them all lined up perfectly together to make that experience seamless for your client

53:12to make a decision makes it so much easier right it does why would you go to all that hard

53:19work

53:20and advertise put it all together only to find that you have that you know motorhome situation

53:27sorry look the radio did work but i can just see someone threw the key straight over it's like your

53:33marketing is giving sales the keys to the kingdom and sales just has to make sure they don't drop them

53:39absolutely and that's all it is it's it's not that complex it's just about good processes

53:47good human interaction and believing you've got to believe in your product there's no point doing

53:53anything that you do if you don't believe in what you're doing and if you can do better for someone

53:58then you have to believe you can do that and i feel that the businesses that succeed are really

54:05passionate about what they do and they have great staff that follow a great leader or a great

54:11organization into into the field knowing that they're going to get a strong outcome and they're

54:18getting something out of it as well you've got to feel like you're getting something out of it as

54:22you're going along so first of all thank you so much for sharing your time i know it's 3 30

54:27in the

54:27morning there in australia and you're a rock star for getting up and doing this with me i would have

54:32never got you're obviously a morning person because you're on your game then so i want to thank you for

54:37that and for those who are listening or watching and want to learn more or would like to maybe engage

54:41your company what are the best ways for them to get in touch with you or to connect with you

54:46or to

54:46learn more well you can hit me up on on on linkedin michael tricolta or you can easily email me

54:53this

54:53direct email michael at web oracle u-e-b-o-r-a-c-l-e dot com dot au and

55:01i will be in touch with no issue

55:03whatsoever so thank you very much mason i really appreciate it tom's a great conversation you're

55:08doing some great work out there and i genuinely feel that a lot of people will benefit from what

55:14you do and it's it's it's good to see people giving back right back at you appreciate it

55:20in your ever visiting central florida you sure look me up i'm buying i will thank you very much

55:26appreciate your time thanks have a good day

55:36you

55:40you

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended