- 16 hours ago
What if real leadership influence has less to do with visibility and more to do with trust?
In this episode of Workforce Alchemy, Mason Duchatschek sits down with Shayna Rattler Davis to explore what executive influence really looks like in today’s business environment. This conversation is built for CEOs, business owners, founders, executives, HR leaders, and team leaders who want to strengthen leadership presence, build credibility, and create trust inside their organizations and in the marketplace.
Many leaders assume that being seen more automatically creates authority. Shayna challenges that idea and explains why authentic leadership, clear communication, and trust are the real drivers of influence. She unpacks the hidden gaps that weaken executive presence and shows why leadership identity is the foundation behind employer branding, talent acquisition, corporate culture, and long-term business growth.
If you are leading a company, growing a team, hiring talent, or shaping workplace culture, this episode will help you rethink how you show up, how you communicate, and how you build influence without compromising who you are.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why influence is built on trust, not visibility
• The hidden gaps that limit leadership impact
• How authenticity strengthens executive presence
• Why leadership identity shapes credibility and authority
• The role of HR in shaping narrative and attracting top talent
• How visual branding affects leadership credibility
• Why executive influence can erode quickly during crisis
• How to build a strong, resilient leadership presence
• The competitive advantage of embracing your unique perspective
• How to refine your influence without changing your personality
Why this episode matters:
In a business world where leaders are constantly being evaluated by employees, candidates, customers, and the market, influence affects growth, culture, hiring, retention, and reputation. This episode offers practical leadership insights for business owners and executives who want to lead with clarity, communicate with intention, and earn lasting trust.
Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, company culture, HR strategy, hiring, business growth, executive communication, and workforce performance.
Watch more Workforce Alchemy episodes here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg
Subscribe to the channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
Connect with Shayna Rattler Davis and Mason Duchatschek through the links below and follow Workforce Alchemy for more insights on leadership, talent, culture, and business strategy.
Connect With Workforce Alchemy
Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/
Mason: https://masonduchatschek.com/
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
🐦 X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
🎥 Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
In this episode of Workforce Alchemy, Mason Duchatschek sits down with Shayna Rattler Davis to explore what executive influence really looks like in today’s business environment. This conversation is built for CEOs, business owners, founders, executives, HR leaders, and team leaders who want to strengthen leadership presence, build credibility, and create trust inside their organizations and in the marketplace.
Many leaders assume that being seen more automatically creates authority. Shayna challenges that idea and explains why authentic leadership, clear communication, and trust are the real drivers of influence. She unpacks the hidden gaps that weaken executive presence and shows why leadership identity is the foundation behind employer branding, talent acquisition, corporate culture, and long-term business growth.
If you are leading a company, growing a team, hiring talent, or shaping workplace culture, this episode will help you rethink how you show up, how you communicate, and how you build influence without compromising who you are.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
• Why influence is built on trust, not visibility
• The hidden gaps that limit leadership impact
• How authenticity strengthens executive presence
• Why leadership identity shapes credibility and authority
• The role of HR in shaping narrative and attracting top talent
• How visual branding affects leadership credibility
• Why executive influence can erode quickly during crisis
• How to build a strong, resilient leadership presence
• The competitive advantage of embracing your unique perspective
• How to refine your influence without changing your personality
Why this episode matters:
In a business world where leaders are constantly being evaluated by employees, candidates, customers, and the market, influence affects growth, culture, hiring, retention, and reputation. This episode offers practical leadership insights for business owners and executives who want to lead with clarity, communicate with intention, and earn lasting trust.
Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, company culture, HR strategy, hiring, business growth, executive communication, and workforce performance.
Watch more Workforce Alchemy episodes here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg
Subscribe to the channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
Connect with Shayna Rattler Davis and Mason Duchatschek through the links below and follow Workforce Alchemy for more insights on leadership, talent, culture, and business strategy.
Connect With Workforce Alchemy
Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/
Mason: https://masonduchatschek.com/
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
🐦 X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
🎥 Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
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LifestyleTranscript
00:05welcome to the mason dukacheck show this episode is brought to you by workforce alchemy
00:11helping leaders improve hiring engagement and retention while uncovering people-related
00:17profit leaks hidden in everyday operations my guest today is shana rattler davis and she's
00:23an executive advisor who helps leaders cultivate real influence not just visibility she's worked
00:30with organizations like ibm and l'oreal advised high growth innovators and built leadership
00:38platforms reaching tens of thousands of executives and founders shana is also the award-winning host
00:45of the influence economy podcast ranked in the top three percent globally her work focuses on
00:53how leaders project authority build connection and create loyalty that outlasts trends titles and
01:01noise influence isn't about being seen more it's about being trusted followed and listened to when
01:10decisions actually matter if you're a ceo or executive who wants your voice to carry weight not just
01:17attention this conversation's for you shana welcome to the show i'm happy to be here mason thank you for
01:22having me so your focus on executive influence not just leadership and when you look at the leaders
01:31that you work with what tells you immediately whether influence is present or if it's missing yeah well i
01:39first want to note before i answer that that the context of this entire conversation is when your
01:44leaders have to engage outside of the organization there's no shortage of information out there that can
01:49help you be a better leader internally but at the time of this recording all companies mason regardless
01:56of their size or their industry they're all facing three external issues or challenges or headwinds or
02:02have you want to call it i think everyone's in a war over talent trust gaps are widening and technology
02:08is
02:09disrupting everyone and so when your leaders are representing your brand outside of the organization whether
02:17that's they have to they're in hr and they're having to have a conversation with a potential hire maybe
02:21they're technical leaders and they have to have conversations with investors or customers or anytime
02:26they have to engage outside of the organization that's usually where i notice that there is a competency
02:32gap they're great at building the thing they're great at leading their teams internally but the moment that
02:38they have to engage externally is when the level of influence and the level of competency that they have in
02:44their role is usually not present and one of the very first indications that i see that they're not
02:51signaling influence in the best way is that they sound like what i call a corporate branded parrot
02:57meaning the only thing that they're able to do is just regurgitate the bullet points that quite frankly
03:03someone could find in the job description or can find on the website but there's not really any level of
03:08who the heck are you as the leader like what do you think how do you feel and that's the
03:13number one
03:14indication to me excuse me that there actually needs to be some work to make sure that the influence
03:20that they have outside of the organization is actually representing the company with trust and credibility
03:25so let me give you a different quote let me take a spin on that one of my favorite books
03:30and it's not a new book
03:31it's been around for a long time and it was called the clue train manifesto and what the authors were
03:38talking about is being authentic and real and they talked about how organizations massage their message
03:46to the point that it is professional and i'm using air quotes here for those that are listening and it
03:52is
03:52also forgettable because it just sounds like the old charlie brown peanuts cartoon where the kids are
03:59sitting there listening to the teacher going blah blah blah blah it just it doesn't click now it does
04:04sound professional and the content passes through compliance if it's an insurance agency or financial
04:09services type company but it's boring it's forgettable and it doesn't move the needle at all
04:14and the premise of the book was to be authentic to be real and to be human so what's your
04:21take on that
04:22balancing act between yeah i think it's between bullet points nowadays because people think that
04:29technology and artificial intelligence is the first thing that we should go to but i feel like this level
04:35of presence and influence that you and i are speaking of and they're talking about in that book that's the
04:41one thing that technology cannot replicate however we're leaning more towards technology we're leaning more
04:47towards the ai to help craft our messages and represent us instead of us as the human feeding
04:55our ideas to the machines and asking the machine to you know make it better or make it fit you
05:00know
05:00whatever it is that we're doing so i don't know when that book was written but it is even more
05:04relevant
05:05today than possibly it was when it was written but i totally agree if i had to guess i'd say
05:1010 or 15
05:10years it's been a while yeah but i have never forgotten it and it was it was it was a
05:17powerful
05:17book and it was an easy read too so for those listening again it's clue train manifesto i can't
05:22remember who the name of the author was but i remember the main points and i think about them
05:26daily when i'm talking to someone live or when i'm communicating in a written fashion so what was
05:32one early moment in your career that showed you that influence mattered more than expertise alone
05:36gosh i'm going to use a recent example and it wasn't me specifically but it was something that i
05:42noticed with my peers i was actually hired by a tech startup to help them get the startup off of
05:49the
05:49ground and they were building a product for wall street and when it got closer to time to them
05:56launching that organization the founder said to the cto and to the head of engineering you're going to
06:02have to start having conversations with these wall street executives and the investors about how what
06:08we're building is actually going to revolutionize their industry and none of this was my responsibility
06:14i was working on operations and marketing and you know i was hire number two so a little bit of
06:19everything you know that the organization needed but when i saw those two individuals who were if you're not
06:26watching the video i'm a black woman these individuals were from the middle east they were darker
06:31complected than i am but they turned ghostly white mason because they were like that's not what it is
06:37that they're trained to do that's not what it is that they're comfortable doing they knew how to build
06:41the product they knew how to lead their teams and they knew how to talk about the product and people
06:47that understood the nomenclature in which they knew how to describe it but it frightened them to think that
06:53they were going to have to start having conversations on industry panels that they were going to have to start
06:59talking to wall street executives not because they thought the executives were smarter than them
07:04it's just that had never been part of the job and nowadays it's very very common whether your startup
07:11or otherwise for your especially your core leaders even if they're in a role that's not traditionally
07:16forward-facing for them to find times that they are engaging externally whether it's on media whether
07:23it's on social media if it's in an interview um you know these conversations are happening and so
07:28when my employment with that organization came to an end and i went back to running my consulting firm
07:35that was my aha moment that it would probably be really good for me to focus on especially technical
07:41leaders or people who are not traditionally forward-facing because more often than somebody like in a
07:47marketing or a sales role that's where that competency gap is going to come and that was my aha moment
07:53to go
07:53oh wow it doesn't matter how brilliant you are how much your expertise is if it can't translate in every
08:01environment internal and external then it doesn't necessarily yield you the same the types of results
08:07that you're looking to get so along that same line if you're talking about people with maybe perhaps
08:12technical expertise and maybe the very smartest person in the room regarding that technical aspect of
08:17whatever it is that they're offering you help leaders cultivate authority and connection because
08:24i don't think those are mutually exclusive choices but it takes a conscious effort and i'm curious what
08:28your advice to folks would be who are who recognize that both are necessary yeah i would say the first
08:35thing
08:35is is don't jump straight to my leaders need communication and media training because they do but there's
08:41foundational work that has to happen first and that's where connection comes in that's where
08:46authority comes in and the trust and credibility and that foundational work is the very first step of
08:51asking yourself what is my leadership identity and what i mean when i say that is what is your unique
08:58point of view about either the industry that you're in or the product or service that your company is
09:04selling because now when you're having conversations in any of those arenas that we just mentioned you're not
09:11going to come across as the corporate branded parrot that has just memorized the bullet points that
09:16someone told you to say you actually have more depth and more human ability and more strategy to add to
09:24the conversation beyond just the technical and tactical pieces because what happens after you've given those
09:30three or four bullet points that you've memorized but now the conversation is lasting another 20-30 minutes
09:35not only do you not have anything else to say but when you're talking about the ability to be able
09:40to connect
09:40with the audience like let's just take hr for example because i know that there are hr executives that
09:45listen to your show if you're in a conversation especially somebody that is a high performing
09:51leader because they have options they're interviewing you as much as you're interviewing them for where it
09:57is that they are going to work next and if you're having a conversation with them and the only thing
10:02that
10:02you can talk about is the job description and the benefits and the values of the company
10:08but you can't say things like you know here's where it is that i see the industry is headed and
10:14you know
10:14these are some of the things that i personally believe are going to have to be in place if the
10:18industry is going to accomplish whatever it is that you all are talking about the person that you're
10:23hiring is going to go the leaders of this organization are actually someone that i can get behind this
10:29actually sounds like the type of culture that i would want to work with not just what it is that
10:35they are
10:36selling or the reason reason why they're in the in business and it's the same anytime a leader is engaging
10:42externally you need to be able to have more human connection beyond just the technical features benefits the
10:51basis of whatever it is that you're talking about i love what you're saying and i find it fascinating that
10:55you
10:55chose hr as an example because it's no secret that i've encouraged organizations to consider hr as the second
11:02sales force and literally utilize sales and marketing strategies to compete for talent with the same
11:08vigor intensity strategies and tactics they use to compete for the best customers so what you're saying
11:15about outreach from hr i think is is a home run and you're right on the money and i've i'm
11:22not in hr
11:23nor have i been trained to be an hr professional but i would be willing to bet at least one
11:28of my organs you
11:29can pick pick which one i give but i would be willing to bet at least one of my organs
11:33that this
11:35is not how hr people are trained they're they're not trained to think about how are you actually
11:42engaging with the person that you're talking to they're not thought you know they're not taught that
11:47let's just say you're at sherm the society of human resource management and you're one of the people
11:52that is on the panel or you're one of the speakers of one of the sessions you haven't really been
11:57thought how to think about what your narrative is as the leader and that's what's really going to
12:03connect the audience because if we're being honest mason there's very few new topics under the sun
12:08there's very few new angles that you're going to be able to bring to most of the topics that you
12:12might
12:13be talking about and so one of the only ways that you're going to be able to differentiate yourself
12:18and really stand out and really be memorable and really be able to drive whatever result you're
12:24looking to drive by the level of engagement is by that leadership identity and narrative that you're
12:30going to be able to create and that's who you are and what you stand for so what are some
12:35of the
12:35behaviors that quietly erode executive influence over time even among well-intentioned leaders
12:42i think we've talked about some of them they're not signaling anything that actually communicates the
12:48level of brilliance that they have but one of the things that sounds so simple but i see it all
12:53the
12:53time is my framework for what it is that we're talking about it's leadership identity which we've
12:59talked about at nauseam leadership branding and then leadership messaging everybody wants to just
13:03skip to the messaging piece but i just want to talk about the leadership branding for a moment
13:08and when i say leadership branding i want you to ask yourself let's just take linkedin let's keep
13:13it super simple and something that everybody understands when i look at your linkedin profile
13:18does your photo look like it was taken in a backyard barbecue does it does it look like there were
13:24actually other people in the photo that you've got you've tried to crop out but i can still see part
13:28of their shoulder touching your shoulder does your about section only read like a resume and there's
13:34no level of personality you know again you just sound like a robot it's obvious that a machine
13:40probably probably this leaders are not necessarily thinking about the visual cues that they are signaling
13:49to the market to make sure that it not only represents who they are as a leader but that it
13:55matches the
13:56branding of the organization that you work for because we're not talking about personal branding for the
14:01sake of you're going to go off and you're going to start your your own thing but even if you
14:06work for a
14:06brand you're still a brand inside of that brand and so there are elements that you should be thinking
14:12about of personal branding as the leader of that organization because it's not only going to make
14:18you more credible for the company that you represent but it's also going to put you in a better space
14:23where you're being seen as an authority in your space which can have implications beyond the company
14:29that you're working for so one of my favorite quotes from mike tyson he says everyone's got a plan
14:35until they get punched in the face and he's right and i know a lot of leaders figuratively get punched
14:40in the face when things go south at work media shows up etc and i know you've seen leaders during
14:47moments of growth pressure and transition how does executive influence become most visible
14:54or the most fragile during those moments i think the first thing that i wish companies would start to
15:00take this more seriously before the time comes we we put these types of things off we focus on these
15:07types of development when we've already been punched in the face because we don't think it's important
15:12so i wish that people would just listen to this show and say i don't want to wait until we
15:18get
15:18punched in the face because there's too much at risk companies nowadays cannot afford for their leadership
15:25to either be invisible altogether or when they are visible they can't afford for it to be uh to be
15:32upon a punch in the face and so i just wish that that companies would start sooner in recognizing that
15:39the world that we're in now perception and reputation is often built before they ever even have a
15:45conversation with you and so there's ways for us to actually make sure that we're demonstrating
15:50this level of influence where it matters most but unfortunately most of us don't wait until we're
15:58hit in the face to then try to figure out how we keep ourselves from getting hit in the face
16:02after
16:03we bandage ourselves up when we could just say how do i learn to block the blow before it comes
16:08so that
16:09i don't get hit in the face it's funny because you just said a few minutes ago and i'm gonna
16:13butcher
16:13your own quote just from a few minutes ago but you said something like nothing's really changed it's the
16:17same old stuff paraphrasing there yeah it reminds i think it was ben franklin said why is this a man
16:24who fixes his roof before it rains yeah that's exactly what you're talking about so that's exactly
16:29what i'm talking about you know what i find fascinating mason is you know i think i've established
16:35my own unique point of view that leadership identity matters first before we can start thinking about some
16:42of the other technical tactical things that you have to do in order to be able to demonstrate this level
16:47of influence but what i find fascinating is that identity and purpose is the number one question
16:53that almost every human being has however it's almost the last thing if at all that companies ever
17:00take responsibility for for for helping helping to develop but then you wonder why the leadership
17:05development that you are doing is not really translating it's not really landing the way that you
17:11want it to land you're not really seeing the kpis that are being met and it's because we are too
17:19unwilling to address the foundations that need to be addressed in order for because it's not that like
17:26the learning and development that you have in place most of the time is not needed it's just it's
17:31not being built on a solid foundation and so it's just sinking sinking sinking and then you wonder why
17:37things are not being built up because you're building it on sinking sand instead of concrete
17:42so how do you help leaders who because you talked a little bit about tactics how do you help leaders
17:47who are introverted or aren't naturally charismatic still develop a strong executive presence i tell them
17:55to take a deep breath and then after they let it out i go because you don't have to be
17:59like this is not
18:01about being performative this is not about being fake this is not about you becoming an influencer
18:06actually it's not about you changing anything about who you are it's just being more intentional
18:13about the signals that you're sending and i always ask them let's just start with can you answer the
18:18question of if i ask you what is your unique point of view about the industry that you're in or
18:23the
18:23product or service that your company sells can you answer that in 30 seconds or less so that anyone
18:29could understand it without referring to jargon that the in that is in the industry without referring
18:36to the company at all but just you as the leader can you answer that question clearly and and concisely
18:43and if the answer to that is no then that's where the work starts and if you don't know the
18:48answer
18:48to that ask one of your peers that are in meetings with you what it is that you seem to
18:54stand for what
18:55are the things that seem to fire you up whether it's because it aggravates the hell out of you
18:59or because it's just something you're really passionate about usually your unique point of
19:03view is in that and so then it's like no now you can just rest in your own personality you
19:09can rest in
19:09your own level of brilliance but you now have some seasoning if you will to be able to weave in
19:15and out
19:16the way that you're naturally thinking about talking but this is not about changing who you are
19:21it's just about you know refining the signals that you're sending out
19:25out of curiosity what percentage of them can answer that question quickly and competently
19:30maybe 10 maybe wow especially no i'm not even going to say especially no 10 at best i would be
19:42i
19:42would be shocked of 10 of leaders i wish they'd message you and i on linkedin and tell me if
19:48they
19:48knew what their unique point of view was before they heard this before they heard this this this
19:53conversation very very seldom because we don't have to think about that unless here's the time that
19:59that you actually have given some thought to this if you're into personal development or if you have
20:06like a business on the side and you're going to different entrepreneur type spaces very seldom have
20:13people that are just in corporate and aren't doing some of these other things on the outside very seldom
20:19have they ever even been challenged to think about that nor has it been necessary because the things
20:25that have mattered is what school did you go to and what companies have you worked for before so where's
20:31your education and where's your expertise and that's been enough for you to hang your shingle on
20:36no one's ever had to think about this but now when you look at the standpoint of everybody has a
20:43quality
20:43product or service everybody has smart leaders everybody's quick fast you know like there's very
20:49few differentiators between the product that is in the marketplace this is the one thing that can
20:56make your company and your leaders stand stand out so it's like if you don't want your competition
21:02poaching your top talent or poaching your customers you better start thinking about this stuff because
21:08many companies are because i'm making it my business to make sure that many companies are and this is a
21:13way
21:13that you can make sure and i say that jokingly but this is a way that you can make sure
21:18that your
21:19company is actually having a competitive advantage over all of the external junk that is being sent your
21:25way that you have absolutely no control of you know what i find is interesting when you start talking
21:30about competitive advantages and competition so many people think that they're just in competition with
21:35the particularly again because we were talking about hr earlier they think they're in competition with
21:41if other companies in their industry the business down the street that is in the same industry as
21:46them and they're not if it's for people they're competing with any of those people in the community
21:54who might want to work for their company or any other company not just inside their industry
21:58so it is it is limited thinking in my opinion and based on my experience for them to sit there
22:04and think
22:04well we're just worried about competing with xyz in our industry across town oh no no if you're
22:11competing for the best talent like you would for the best customers that there's a bunch of talent
22:15working for a whole bunch of other companies aren't even in your industry so the ability that you're
22:20talking about right now is incredibly valuable from my perspective and businesses should make it a
22:28great greater priority because it's a huge opportunity if you do it right and it's a huge
22:33missed opportunity if you don't bother and you just take what you can get what you said is the
22:39crux of why i get on my soapbox is that with all of the innovation and all of the things
22:47that are
22:48changing in the world around us it is a huge missed opportunity for us not to realize that we also
22:55have to
22:55lead differently like what makes us think that technology is going to evolve and change you know
23:04all of these different markers are going to evolve and change but we're not going to have to lead
23:09differently in the next era and it's really disheartening because i go to hr conferences i go to
23:16tech conferences i'm in a lot of these spaces where i look at i'm like i've sat here for two
23:22days and
23:22everyone has talked about how everything around us is changing but not one person in any session
23:29was talking about how we're going to have to lead differently in order to keep up with all of the
23:35changes that are happening around us and it's fascinating to me and i don't mean fascinating in a
23:42good way i understand i would i'm from the south and in the south when we say oh bless her
23:47heart oh that's
23:48not a good thing so what's something that leaders often underestimate about their own influence either
23:55positively or negatively yeah i think they underestimate that it's possible for you to still remain authentic
24:05to who you are without becoming someone different in order to be able to have more influence you're
24:13already having influence in different ways we're just not giving ourselves enough credit for how
24:20those levels of influence can translate into other environments that it's now going to be needed
24:27so it's like you're not starting from scratch it's just you know you've already built the house now we're
24:33just picking out the fixtures you know do you want the black knobs or do you want the gold knobs
24:38you've
24:39always had the black knobs but now it might be time for you to have gold knobs but guess what
24:43you've
24:44always had knobs and so i think sometimes people think that this is going to be a complete overhaul
24:49and very seldom have i ever worked with a company or i ever worked with a leader that we were
24:54doing a
24:54complete overhaul it's usually just a 15 degree shift from where you already are or taking one or two
25:03things and adding it to what it is that you're already doing because people always ask me like so are
25:08you
25:08saying that pr and comms and marketing like just goes out the window and it's like no this supports
25:15that you know this is a way for it to support that and so i think that's that's the biggest
25:19misconception
25:20is that you already have almost everything you need you just have to be more intentional about the
25:26signals you're sending that's great advice if there was only one piece of advice i know you've got a
25:30wide range of life experience and work experience but if there was only one piece of advice that you
25:37could give a business owner or executive listening today what would it be and why
25:43start looking at this now whether or not you think you need it or not because you don't want to
25:48be the
25:48person that is bandaging themselves up and trying to figure out how they don't get punched in the face
25:53the next time i've got you you can keep yourself from getting punched in the face now because it's
25:58coming like there are very seldom times that especially people that are senior leaders and higher in an
26:03organization are not going to be engaging externally even if it's just commenting on post i've seen so many
26:11executives open mouth insert foot just with a post that they have commented on that they're only commenting
26:19on their perspective of what it is that they know and they're not thinking about how it's perceived there
26:25was a major major fortune 100 company that was laying off thousands of people a few months ago maybe six
26:32months ago now and the vp of engineering commented and said this is great i am going to give him
26:38the
26:38benefit of the doubt that i don't think he thought it was great that thousands of people were losing
26:43their jobs since he sets sits on the engineering team he was probably looking at it from a standpoint of
26:50we're going to do this in order to accomplish that and it's going to be great for all of these
26:55different reasons but since he's not accustomed to thinking about how his comments are being perceived
27:02what if there was someone that was considering working for that organization that was the top
27:07talent that was the number one person that your organization knew they needed to move the needle
27:13and that person saw that response and they were like why would i want to go work for an organization
27:18that people at the head think it's great that thousands of people lost their jobs so again
27:22probably didn't mean it but he's used to talking however it is that they talk around the water
27:28cooler in the engineering department and he's never had to think about how his comments translate
27:33and what type of trust that could be eroding and what type of perception is being built about that
27:40organization just based off of the off of a simple comment so your leaders are going to have to
27:45engage externally at one point don't wait take it seriously now i've loved every minute of this
27:50conversation and i love doing this because i always learn so much from so many smart people and
27:55and i appreciate every minute you spent with me for people who want to learn more about you your
28:00company and the work you do what's the best way for them to connect yeah i would love for them
28:04to just
28:05follow me on linkedin that's my biggest request i could send you all kinds of free reports and all
28:10that jazz but i would love if you would just follow me on linkedin the actual linkedin handle i think
28:14is
28:14just my maiden name which is shana rattler but i'm my full name on linkedin is shana rattler davis
28:20thank you so much for coming on the show today it's been a pleasure and let's do it again sometime
28:24thank you for having me mason
28:27you
28:30you
28:35you
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