If you are a business owner, CEO, or executive struggling to stand out in crowded markets, this episode will fundamentally change how you think about marketing, sales, and authority.
In this episode of The Mason Duchatschek Show, Mason sits down with Maeve Ferguson, a leading expert in diagnostic assessments for leaders and executives. Together, they unpack why traditional marketing and sales approaches fail to create differentiation and how diagnostics flip the entire buyer journey in your favor.
Instead of leading with a pitch, Maeve explains how diagnostic assessments allow you to lead with value, uncover hidden problems prospects do not even know they have, and position yourself as the authority before the sales conversation ever begins.
You will discover how personalized diagnostics create deeper engagement, build trust faster, and eliminate generic messaging that silently erodes credibility. Maeve also shares practical strategies for implementing diagnostics in your marketing and sales process so you attract better clients, shorten sales cycles, and create long term relationships built on insight and relevance.
This conversation is essential viewing for CEOs and business leaders who want to:
• Differentiate in competitive markets
• Increase sales authority without sounding salesy
• Improve client engagement and conversion rates
• Replace generic messaging with precise positioning
• Attract the right clients while repelling the wrong ones
If you want to lead with value, create demand instead of chasing leads, and build trust before the pitch, this episode is a must watch.
👉 Subscribe to the Workforce Alchemy YouTube channel for more conversations on leadership, sales strategy, workforce optimization, and business growth
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
🎧 Watch the full podcast playlist here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg
🔗 Connect With Workforce Alchemy
Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
🐦 X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
🎥 Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
📼 Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/WorkforceAlchemy
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist
⏱ Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Diagnostic Assessments
01:55 The Power of Personalized Insights
07:45 Understanding True Prospect Problems
09:45 The Importance of Proper Positioning
15:39 Types of Diagnostic Assessments
20:16 Leading with Value in Sales Conversations
24:07 Discovering Your Superpower
24:55 The Importance of Positioning
26:34 Common Mistakes in Diagnostics
29:21 Creating Desire and Demand
34:26 Traffic Strategies for Success
37:44 Building Trust in Paid Traffic
41:20 Final Advice for Business Growth
#BusinessGrowth #LeadershipDevelopment #SalesStrategy #MarketingStrategy #AuthorityPositioning #ClientEngagement #CEOStrategy #Diagnostics
In this episode of The Mason Duchatschek Show, Mason sits down with Maeve Ferguson, a leading expert in diagnostic assessments for leaders and executives. Together, they unpack why traditional marketing and sales approaches fail to create differentiation and how diagnostics flip the entire buyer journey in your favor.
Instead of leading with a pitch, Maeve explains how diagnostic assessments allow you to lead with value, uncover hidden problems prospects do not even know they have, and position yourself as the authority before the sales conversation ever begins.
You will discover how personalized diagnostics create deeper engagement, build trust faster, and eliminate generic messaging that silently erodes credibility. Maeve also shares practical strategies for implementing diagnostics in your marketing and sales process so you attract better clients, shorten sales cycles, and create long term relationships built on insight and relevance.
This conversation is essential viewing for CEOs and business leaders who want to:
• Differentiate in competitive markets
• Increase sales authority without sounding salesy
• Improve client engagement and conversion rates
• Replace generic messaging with precise positioning
• Attract the right clients while repelling the wrong ones
If you want to lead with value, create demand instead of chasing leads, and build trust before the pitch, this episode is a must watch.
👉 Subscribe to the Workforce Alchemy YouTube channel for more conversations on leadership, sales strategy, workforce optimization, and business growth
https://www.youtube.com/@workforcealchemy
🎧 Watch the full podcast playlist here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaGSQcRH4ChwjjPLD9FN6r2IvuBp5PPbg
🔗 Connect With Workforce Alchemy
Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/
🐦 X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist
🎥 Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy
📼 Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/WorkforceAlchemy
📺 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist
⏱ Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Diagnostic Assessments
01:55 The Power of Personalized Insights
07:45 Understanding True Prospect Problems
09:45 The Importance of Proper Positioning
15:39 Types of Diagnostic Assessments
20:16 Leading with Value in Sales Conversations
24:07 Discovering Your Superpower
24:55 The Importance of Positioning
26:34 Common Mistakes in Diagnostics
29:21 Creating Desire and Demand
34:26 Traffic Strategies for Success
37:44 Building Trust in Paid Traffic
41:20 Final Advice for Business Growth
#BusinessGrowth #LeadershipDevelopment #SalesStrategy #MarketingStrategy #AuthorityPositioning #ClientEngagement #CEOStrategy #Diagnostics
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Mason Dukacek Show.
00:08This episode is brought to you by Workforce Alchemy,
00:11helping leaders improve hiring, engagement, and retention
00:14while uncovering people-related profit leaks
00:17hidden in everyday operations.
00:20Today's guest helps leaders stop competing for attention
00:23and start positioning themselves as the only logical choice.
00:27Mae Ferguson works with executives, founders, and experts
00:31to design diagnostic assessments that qualify prospects,
00:36pre-sell offers, and establish authority
00:38before a conversation ever happens.
00:41So instead of chasing leads or pitching harder,
00:45her approach reframes how buyers understand their problems
00:48and why a specific leader is uniquely equipped to solve them.
00:53Mae's work and insights have been featured in Forbes,
00:57ABC, CBS, and NBC.
01:00And she is known for helping leaders replace generic messaging
01:04with precision positioning that creates leverage, clarity, and momentum.
01:09This conversation is about diagnostics, it's about differentiation,
01:13and how leaders can shift from being one of many options
01:16to the obvious choice.
01:19Mae, welcome to the show.
01:20Thank you very much.
01:21I hope I can live up to that incredible introduction.
01:24So excited to be here, and just from our pre-chat,
01:27I am really looking forward to popping the hood
01:30and talking about topics that really address us both.
01:34I'm glad you're here.
01:36I have been looking forward to it.
01:37So you emphasize diagnostic business assessments
01:41as a cornerstone of authority.
01:43Can you explain what you mean by the term diagnostic assessments
01:49and explain why they're so powerful
01:52compared to traditional marketing or sales conversations?
01:55Yes, absolutely.
01:56So if you think about it,
01:58from a business structure point of view,
02:01all of your competitors are doing standard activities,
02:05the ordinary things.
02:06They might have the 1994 version of a PDF lead magnets
02:11to try to bring in prospects into their company.
02:13And the whole idea here with diagnostic assessments,
02:16and I'll get to the three versions of them in just a moment,
02:19but diagnostic assessments truly set you
02:23at a competitive advantage to any of the competitors
02:28who are just doing the normal kind of lead generation activities
02:32that everybody's doing run of the mill.
02:34And the reason for that is that you can really position
02:38either your authority, your expertise,
02:41or your company's way of doing things
02:43that showcases your methodology
02:46and how it is so different to what others do.
02:49And from the leads perspective,
02:52when we are on the receiving end
02:55of any kind of marketing material or marketing efforts,
02:58it is so easy to kind of get blinded
03:01blinded by so many people,
03:03especially now with AI
03:04and especially with all of the bots on LinkedIn,
03:07everybody's just getting hammered
03:09with the same thing every single day.
03:11Generic messages, things that like,
03:13oh, your profile caught my eye.
03:15No, it didn't.
03:16Okay, so people are becoming kind of blind
03:19to this generic approach in marketing.
03:23And the beauty of the diagnostic assessment
03:25is that A, it is completely personalized.
03:27So they're going to get a personalized result
03:30that is bespoke completely to them.
03:33No two are the same
03:35and it is personalized for your specific situation.
03:39So if you think about it,
03:40the level of intent that you have
03:42when you go through an opt-in for a PDF leak market,
03:46you basically barely have to even look at your phone these days
03:49and it's like auto-filling all of your information,
03:52probably setting up PDF to spam,
03:54which nobody ever opens it.
03:55So you then find it in your spam and you're like,
03:57who's this dude?
03:57I don't even remember.
03:59Whereas if you think of the level of intent
04:01or the diagnostic,
04:02somebody is spending between five and 20 minutes
04:06going through and answering specific questions
04:09about their personal private situation.
04:11The level of intent with that lead
04:13is completely different
04:15to somebody who clicked an Instagram ad
04:18whilst they were like eating popcorn
04:19and so forth on a Friday night.
04:21Okay, so completely different person.
04:23And so there's the level of intent piece.
04:25And then also from the business's perspective,
04:28you can position yourself as best in class
04:32because you have A, that diagnostic infrastructure.
04:36B, you are showcasing your offers
04:39and your solutions in a way
04:41that is personalized to the user
04:43that you can bet your bottom dollar
04:44that your competition are doing that.
04:46And not only that,
04:48you start to get incredible data and insights
04:50into what is actually happening in your market,
04:54but you can then feed back
04:55into top of funnel,
04:56copy, messaging, positioning,
04:59positioning you as the authority
05:00because you have the data
05:02of what's going on in your market
05:03because of the diagnostic.
05:06It's interesting because I think back,
05:08and this was probably 10 to 12 years ago,
05:10I ran into a guy who I've always felt
05:13is two to five years ahead of his time.
05:16Yeah.
05:17Mike Koenigs, he's out in California.
05:18And he used to always say,
05:20identify what the 10 most frequently asked questions
05:23are of your prospects
05:24and have those answers ready to go.
05:26And at the base level, you should have that.
05:29He said, next level for positioning yourself
05:32as the only logical choice.
05:35He goes, identify what the 10 should ask questions are.
05:39The questions that your prospects
05:41don't know they need to ask,
05:42but when they hear them coming from you,
05:45they know this person might know more than me here.
05:48I should listen.
05:49And what I enjoy about this conversation
05:51is I believe that your process
05:53and your systems are very good
05:55at getting those prospects to realize
05:59these are should ask questions.
06:01I didn't know that I should be analyzing this,
06:02or I didn't know that I should be analyzing that.
06:04And this is very relevant.
06:05There are levels to this,
06:07and I need to know more.
06:08Exactly.
06:09So again, it's a positioning piece.
06:10And I actually had a conversation
06:12with our agency director this morning about this,
06:15where the problem or the struggle
06:17that people come to a sales call with her
06:20and with the sales team
06:22is never actually the problem at all.
06:24That is what they think the problem is,
06:27but part of our process
06:28is the identification
06:29of what they are actually struggling with.
06:32And in relation to diagnostics,
06:34if you think about those,
06:35having those 10 questions
06:37that they're going to ask
06:38and what are the questions
06:39that they didn't even think to ask
06:41and how that positions you so cleverly
06:43on a sales call,
06:45imagine the infrastructure of a diagnostic
06:47handling all of that for you
06:49before you ever have a single conversation.
06:52And what really, really lights me up about this
06:55is that discovery,
06:56those awful discovery calls
06:58that your people are like 60 minutes
07:00and it's like,
07:00they tell you their life history
07:02and all of the things
07:03and all of the problems.
07:04And then they get to the end
07:06and they're like,
07:06yeah, I have no money to invest.
07:08The whole idea with post-diagnostic,
07:11it is not a sales call,
07:12it's how does this work?
07:13When can I start conversation?
07:15Because the person is so pre-qualified,
07:18they already have collapsed
07:21that whole process
07:22of getting to know you,
07:23your methodology,
07:24what you're all about,
07:25what you stand for,
07:27the level of intellect involved
07:29in crafting good questions
07:30that you've talked about
07:31happens inside the infrastructure,
07:33not in a discovery call.
07:36I liked what you said.
07:37Could you repeat that?
07:38How did you phrase that?
07:39You said people end up realizing
07:42they have problems
07:43that are different
07:44from what they thought they were.
07:45Yes.
07:46You said it better than me.
07:47So most people will think
07:49they have a sales problem.
07:51I see this a lot
07:52in the expert industry,
07:53which is where people think
07:57they go and they're like,
07:57oh, it's my program's a problem.
07:59And they go and change
08:00the whole program
08:01and they'll start changing curriculum
08:03or if they're a service provider,
08:04they'll change
08:05how they deliver their service.
08:06But that's not actually
08:08the problem at all.
08:09They are thinking
08:11because people aren't buying
08:12their thing
08:13that it's the problem
08:15with the thing
08:15that they're selling.
08:16And it is rarely that.
08:17It is probably
08:18either a positioning problem
08:20where they're not talking
08:21to a rich ditch,
08:22they're attracting
08:23struggle bus people
08:24from the language
08:25that they're using.
08:26This is a huge,
08:27this is a today shift
08:28for anybody listening.
08:29If you're bringing in people
08:31who cannot afford your stuff,
08:34that is a messaging
08:35and positioning
08:35type of funnel problem.
08:37Okay, so where our language
08:38or positioning
08:39is bringing in people
08:41from where we're digging
08:43into pain points
08:44and we're talking
08:44about struggle bus problems,
08:46that is going to bring
08:47in struggle bus people.
08:48When we shift that positioning,
08:50shift that the level
08:52and the caliber
08:52of the person
08:53that we're speaking to,
08:55then this is where,
08:56you know,
08:56for us, for example,
08:57we're able to sign
08:58multi-six-figure clients
08:59because of how we're positioning
09:02our services
09:02in the marketplace.
09:04A few years back,
09:05I had a, you know,
09:06a coaching program
09:08and courses
09:08and all of those things
09:09helping people
09:10to turn their intellectual
09:12property into digital courses.
09:14That brought in
09:15a newbie audience
09:16that didn't have the funds
09:17to invest in themselves.
09:19They were on the struggle bus.
09:20They didn't have
09:21money to invest
09:22and pay traffic strategies
09:23and all of those things.
09:25And it's just
09:25a positioning shift
09:27that goes from working
09:28with the lower end
09:29of your market,
09:30regardless of industry,
09:32right through to the
09:32absolute upper echelons
09:34and world,
09:35world-famous names.
09:36So many leaders
09:37jump straight
09:38to pitching their services.
09:41In your opinion,
09:42what goes wrong
09:42when diagnostics
09:43are missing
09:44from that process?
09:45So people are
09:47here to my,
09:47it's like,
09:48hey, nice to meet you.
09:49Do you want to marry me?
09:50And they're like,
09:51no,
09:52it's a bit soon.
09:52People want to
09:53go and have a coffee
09:54or go on a date
09:55or go for dinner
09:56or whatever it may be.
09:57Okay?
09:58And so what I see often
09:59is that,
10:01this actually happened
10:01me this morning
10:02on a pre-podcast
10:04intro call
10:06where it was literally,
10:08here's my thing,
10:09it's 997,
10:09do you want it?
10:10And I was like,
10:11whoa,
10:11back up, mister.
10:12Like,
10:13who are you?
10:13What are you?
10:14Why are you selling
10:15me your thing?
10:16I'm all set for,
10:17I have all of my advisors
10:18in place.
10:20That is an example
10:20of somebody who's like,
10:21here's my thing
10:22and whether it's a good fit
10:24or fee or not,
10:24I'm going to try
10:25and shove it
10:25down your throat.
10:26Okay?
10:27What we want to do
10:28instead is only
10:29make offers
10:30to A,
10:31people who couldn't
10:32afford to invest
10:33at the level
10:33that we need them
10:34to invest at
10:34and B,
10:36where we know
10:37we can solve
10:38their problem.
10:39And what's happening
10:40for most people
10:40is that they're trying
10:42to,
10:42what I always describe
10:43it as like
10:43square peg,
10:44round hole it.
10:45It's like,
10:46I'm with the square peg
10:47and I want to make a sale
10:48so I'm going to squeeze
10:49it into the round hole
10:50even if it's not
10:51a good fit.
10:51And most people
10:52are having to do that
10:53manually on discovery calls
10:55because they don't have
10:56infrastructure
10:57that does that for them.
10:58Whereas for us,
10:59for example,
11:00we have with our
11:01diagnostics
11:02and for all of our
11:03clients' diagnostics,
11:05we have routing systems
11:06in them
11:07and if people
11:08indicate that they're
11:09able to invest
11:10over X amount of dollars,
11:12you know,
11:12they're like over 50k,
11:13they get routed
11:14to a different offer
11:16than the people
11:17who say they can spend
11:18between 10 and 35k.
11:20If somebody indicates
11:21that they can invest
11:21zero dollars,
11:23I'm sure they're
11:23lovely people
11:24but, you know,
11:25we're not going to
11:26like use up
11:27internal team,
11:28resource time,
11:29all of those things
11:30chatting to these people
11:31so we reroute them
11:32to here's our podcast,
11:34here's our YouTube channel,
11:35go get some free value there
11:36but they don't even
11:38get to see our application.
11:40It's interesting you say that.
11:41I had a guest on the podcast
11:42a week or two ago
11:43and he was talking
11:45about a very similar
11:45concept to this
11:46and he said
11:47you treat everybody
11:49fairly
11:49but you don't
11:51treat them the same.
11:52Exactly.
11:52Because we can't,
11:53we can't,
11:53if somebody,
11:54you know,
11:54we're working with somebody
11:55at the moment
11:56that's a multi-six-figure
11:57engagement,
11:59somebody else is like
12:00coming into our world
12:01wanting to get
12:02the same level of value
12:03and saying that
12:04they're willing
12:05to invest zero dollars
12:06to build the infrastructure
12:08that we built for them,
12:10we're not going to give them
12:10the same level of attention.
12:12Okay,
12:12so the beauty of this is
12:14it reroutes
12:15all of those people
12:16to the correct offers.
12:18Again,
12:19if somebody is
12:20a 10k person
12:21and you try to sell them
12:23a multi-six-figure offer,
12:24that ain't going to work
12:25but just as importantly,
12:27if you have a 10k offer
12:29but you have somebody
12:30that wants
12:31a multi-year,
12:32multi-discipline
12:34engagement with you
12:35and you try to
12:35flog them your 10k thing,
12:37that's a mismatch too.
12:38So the whole idea is
12:39like high ticket
12:40and low ticket,
12:41we want to put
12:42the right message
12:43and the right offer
12:44in front of the right person
12:45at the right time
12:46and what the diagnostic does
12:48is it acts
12:49as that routing engine
12:51so that
12:52there is no mismatch
12:54between the offer
12:55and the position
12:56of that offer
12:57and what somebody
12:58is able to invest.
12:59And
12:59so we were talking
13:01off camera earlier
13:02about methods
13:03of the past
13:05and
13:06I
13:06have always believed
13:08in the value ladder
13:09that
13:09hey,
13:10maybe someone's
13:10at a free
13:11information offer,
13:12they don't have the money
13:13but they're willing to learn
13:14but you give them
13:15some kind of offer
13:16that they can try
13:18that allows them
13:19to elevate,
13:19improve their performance
13:20and they can take
13:22the additional revenue
13:23that you helped them generate
13:24that they wouldn't have
13:24generated otherwise
13:25to buy the next level
13:26and then
13:27you can provide them
13:28with an offer
13:29that helps them
13:29go to the next level
13:30and theoretically
13:31every level should
13:32provide value
13:34in excess
13:34of what they invested
13:35to the point that
13:36the products
13:38and services
13:39continue to pay
13:40for themselves
13:41but what you're
13:42talking about
13:42is a way
13:42to shortcut that
13:43and find out
13:44where they are
13:45on that value ladder
13:46and if someone's
13:47starting in the middle
13:48start them in the middle
13:48you don't have to
13:49wait and go through
13:50this process
13:51so a multi-sex figure
13:53type person
13:55they don't want
13:57your digital version
13:58of whatever
13:59they don't want
14:00a self-guided
14:01version of whatever
14:02they want
14:03personal
14:03private
14:04exclusive access
14:05to you
14:06your brain
14:06etc
14:07and this
14:08is one of my
14:09a big flaw
14:11that I see
14:11in the industry
14:12is
14:13and I used to have
14:14the essential model
14:15in place
14:15but where I see
14:18this going wrong
14:19for a lot of people
14:20is that
14:21the revenue
14:22I used to be an accountant
14:23so I'm big into
14:24numbers, metrics
14:25all of that kind of thing
14:26the numbers model
14:28is upside down
14:28because what ends up
14:29happening is
14:30when a very low
14:31volume of people
14:32are paying you
14:33a very low dollar amount
14:34super hard
14:35to get cash flow
14:36rolling
14:37to make the business
14:38profitable
14:38all of those things
14:39whereas
14:40you have
14:41a few big fish
14:42coming to your thing
14:43everything downstream
14:45becomes easier
14:46because you're not
14:47cash strapped
14:47you're not trying
14:48to bootstrap
14:48everything
14:49you're not
14:49you know
14:50you're not on
14:50that struggle bus
14:51so the whole idea
14:52is
14:53is that
14:53and this does not
14:54mean that if you're
14:55not brilliant at what
14:56you do
14:56you should go and
14:57flog a super high
14:58ticket offer
14:58I don't mean that
15:00I mean
15:00where you have
15:01the skill set
15:02the ability
15:03the team
15:04the backing
15:04all of those things
15:06to deliver
15:06really good
15:08size engagements
15:09again if you're
15:10you know
15:10if you're in a
15:11corporate or in
15:12that type of environment
15:13we could be talking
15:13multi-million dollar
15:14engagements
15:15obviously
15:15if you have
15:17that ability
15:18focus on those
15:19people
15:20via having a
15:21routing engine
15:22to put the right
15:22people
15:23and the right
15:23message and the right
15:24offer in front of
15:24the right people
15:25at the right time
15:26so that then
15:27the downstream
15:27activities
15:28and the lower
15:29ticket stuff
15:30becomes easier
15:31so can you
15:33maybe walk us
15:34through what a
15:35strong diagnostic
15:36actually does for
15:37the buyer psychology
15:38before any offer
15:39is even made
15:39yes brilliant
15:40what I do is like
15:41I'll back up a little
15:42bit first and then
15:44remind me if I forget
15:45to get to this
15:45so but there are
15:46there's three
15:47there's three types
15:48of diagnostic
15:48okay
15:48one end of the
15:50spectrum we have
15:51what is better known
15:52as the quiz
15:53funnel
15:53so my mentor
15:54Ryan Lebeck
15:55quiz funnels
15:56qualified lead generators
15:58that type of model
15:59works incredibly
16:01well
16:02in certain use cases
16:04so for example
16:05we have a client
16:06that's running like
16:07a million dollars
16:07a month in ads
16:08to a quiz funnel
16:09it's like
16:10eight questions
16:10this thing is
16:11generating a
16:12insane amount
16:13of leads
16:14okay
16:14primary purpose
16:15of that
16:16is putting people
16:17into buckets
16:18okay
16:18so they're either
16:19type A
16:19type B
16:19type C
16:20a little bit
16:21of segmentation
16:23low authority
16:24is what I would say
16:25so it's like
16:26it's quick
16:26it's fun
16:27it's easy
16:27it's intriguing
16:28it's like
16:28oh cool
16:28that's interesting
16:29they're now
16:30in your CRM
16:32as a lead
16:32okay
16:33so that's one version
16:34very very very far
16:36end of the spectrum
16:36is what we call
16:37multidimensional diagnostics
16:39so these are for
16:40example
16:41if you've ever been
16:41through Myers-Briggs
16:43so I'm an INTJ
16:44or Enneagram
16:45I'm a three
16:46with a four wing
16:47or Strength Finders
16:48or DISC
16:49or any of those
16:49really really
16:50amazing
16:52multidimensional
16:53diagnostic
16:54or the happiness
16:55scale from
16:55Dr. Arthur Briggs
16:56for example
16:57okay
16:57those are
16:58best suited
16:59where there is
17:01true intellectual
17:02property
17:02where it has been
17:04through rigorous
17:05statistical testing
17:06so reliability
17:07validity testing
17:08all of those things
17:09you know
17:10one of our clients
17:10he's a Harvard
17:11professor
17:12it's through
17:12that level
17:13of rigor
17:14and it is
17:14true positioning
17:16play
17:17in that
17:18these are normally
17:18paid diagnostics
17:19as well
17:20so people actually
17:20pay to take it
17:21to get their result
17:22to find out more
17:23about themselves
17:24that's at the
17:25other end
17:25of the spectrum
17:26and then
17:26for a lot
17:27of our clients
17:28they fall
17:29in what we call
17:30a score-based
17:31diagnostic
17:31now none of
17:33that blended
17:35together
17:35sorry a score-based
17:37diagnostic
17:37okay
17:38sorry my accent
17:40I always forget
17:40that other people
17:41don't have my accent
17:42so score-based
17:43diagnostic
17:43none of these
17:44three are the
17:45poor cousin
17:46of the other
17:46they're just
17:47different courses
17:48for different courses
17:49different use cases
17:50so the score-based
17:51diagnostic
17:52is superb
17:53if your
17:54framework
17:55or methodology
17:56or IP
17:57or even
17:58your services
17:59have between
18:01three and five
18:02main pillars
18:03that you help
18:04people with
18:05and the score-based
18:06diagnostic
18:07essentially
18:07it essentially
18:08works as a
18:10gap analysis
18:11tool
18:11where people
18:12will discover
18:13where they're doing
18:13really really well
18:14where they're really
18:15struggling
18:16and they'll
18:17essentially get a
18:18score as it
18:19relates to each
18:20of these different
18:20areas
18:20now what happens
18:22then from
18:22the user experience
18:24point of view
18:25they get so much
18:27value from this
18:28normally free
18:29diagnostic
18:29where they discover
18:31something about
18:31themselves
18:32it is so
18:33personalized to
18:34them
18:34it's like
18:35this is creepy
18:36are you inside
18:36of my head
18:37how do you know
18:38this is going on
18:38for me
18:39so it's not just
18:39some generic
18:40pdf thing
18:41okay
18:41it's completely
18:42personalized
18:43to where they
18:44are
18:44because it's
18:45based on their
18:46private bespoke
18:47results
18:48okay
18:48the copy
18:49that's my
18:50favorite piece
18:51the copy
18:51the messaging
18:53the positioning
18:53about your
18:54offer
18:55is tailored
18:56to exactly
18:57what they just
18:58told you
18:59exactly what
18:59they just
19:00discovered
19:00is their
19:00biggest
19:01gap
19:02okay
19:02so
19:03i had a
19:04mentor
19:05early in my
19:06career
19:06he said
19:06your whole
19:07job
19:07is to
19:08find
19:08your
19:08customer's
19:08itch
19:09and scratch
19:09it
19:10so
19:11that
19:11sounds
19:11like
19:12exactly
19:12what
19:12you're
19:13talking about
19:13here's the
19:14itch
19:14they have
19:15an aha
19:15moment
19:16they already
19:17know they can
19:17trust you
19:17they've spent
19:18a few minutes
19:19going through
19:19your diagnostic
19:20they're getting
19:21insight
19:22more value
19:22than other
19:23people who
19:23have sold
19:24themselves
19:24have ever
19:25given
19:25and hey
19:26presto
19:27the offer
19:28that you
19:28position in front
19:29of them
19:29matches their
19:30price point
19:31of what
19:31they're able
19:31to invest
19:32so the
19:32big elephant
19:34in the room
19:34is already
19:35gone
19:35and how
19:36we have
19:36positioned
19:37the offer
19:37in front
19:38of them
19:38directly
19:40correlates
19:40with their
19:41biggest struggle
19:42so it just
19:44becomes such
19:45a no-brainer
19:45decision
19:46to do the
19:47call to action
19:47and again
19:48depending on
19:49your business
19:49type
19:50business
19:50your industry
19:51your business
19:51model
19:52all of those
19:52things
19:53that could be
19:54to directly
19:54buy a product
19:55that could be
19:55to apply
19:56to work with
19:57you
19:57which is like
19:57what we have
19:58or book a call
19:59depending
20:00depending on
20:01what your
20:01sales mechanism
20:01is
20:02that can
20:03then be
20:03the call
20:03to action
20:04at the
20:04back end
20:04so how
20:06do diagnostic
20:08assessments
20:08pre-sell
20:09an offer
20:10without feeling
20:11salesy or
20:11manipulative
20:12because that's
20:13a big deal
20:14and I'm curious
20:15what your
20:15advice is
20:15in that
20:16so for me
20:18I am not
20:19really into
20:20mainstream
20:21marketing tactics
20:22so like the
20:23world in its
20:23mother now
20:24I can see
20:24through the
20:25scarcity
20:25and the
20:26you know
20:27urgency
20:28and it's like
20:29you're first
20:29on the list
20:30and if you
20:30don't say
20:30yes I've
20:31got a big
20:31list of
20:31people waiting
20:32for this
20:32spot
20:32you're like
20:33come on
20:34it's a
20:35time of
20:35recording
20:35it's now
20:362026
20:36we all
20:37know
20:37what's
20:38going on
20:39in the
20:39background
20:39we all
20:40know
20:40that it's
20:40probably
20:41a hot mess
20:41behind the
20:42scenes
20:42our markets
20:44are getting
20:44so much
20:45more sophisticated
20:46than they
20:47used to be
20:47so back
20:48in the days
20:492017
20:49where it
20:50was
20:50whack up a
20:51funnel
20:51and you'll
20:51be a
20:52millionaire
20:52by Friday
20:52it doesn't
20:53work like
20:54that anymore
20:54and I am
20:55truly a
20:55believer of
20:56meeting people
20:58and prospects
20:59meeting them
21:00equally
21:01instead of
21:02like I'm
21:03so important
21:03I'm here
21:04up here
21:05you're just
21:05down here
21:06and I'm
21:06going to
21:07come down
21:07and help
21:07you
21:08it's instead
21:08like let's
21:09join forces
21:10together
21:10let's do this
21:11together
21:12and get you
21:13what you want
21:14there's like a
21:14mutual respect
21:15there instead
21:16of these
21:16garish awful
21:18like marketing
21:19tactics
21:20where we
21:21we really
21:22lean into
21:22and like
21:23kneel on the
21:24pain that they
21:24are struggling
21:25with
21:25so to answer
21:26your question
21:26how I would
21:28lead that
21:28is let's
21:29lead with
21:29value
21:29let's give
21:30them something
21:31I'm big
21:32big big into
21:32tell them
21:34exactly what
21:34to do
21:35and then get
21:35paid to
21:36implement it
21:37because they
21:37either don't
21:38want to
21:38they don't
21:38know how
21:39they don't
21:39have capacity
21:40to
21:40so it's
21:40like amazing
21:41can you just
21:42do it for
21:42us
21:42and this is
21:43why we
21:43have completely
21:44done for you
21:45services
21:45so pop the
21:46hood
21:46give your
21:47best stuff
21:48show them
21:48the how
21:49don't
21:49don't
21:49gatekeep
21:50don't hide
21:50and again
21:51so that is
21:52going to
21:52dissolve
21:53that lack of
21:54trust
21:55because it's
21:55like this
21:56person is
21:56just like
21:57giving me
21:57so much
21:57value
21:58and then
21:59there's
21:59trust there
22:00it's
22:00personalized
22:01so it
22:02doesn't
22:02feel
22:02and again
22:03when we
22:04build
22:04funnels
22:04and you're
22:05in the
22:05scheme
22:05you understand
22:06what's going
22:07on in the
22:07background
22:08our user
22:09doesn't even
22:10know what a
22:10funnel is
22:11okay
22:11can you give
22:12me maybe
22:13an example
22:13of where
22:14a diagnostic
22:15completely
22:16reframed
22:16how prospect
22:17understood
22:17their own
22:18problem
22:18okay
22:20where
22:21you are
22:22I'll tell you
22:22an example
22:23actually of
22:23one we
22:24built
22:24and this
22:26was for
22:26a best-selling
22:27author called
22:28Jen Ken
22:29so big
22:30big big
22:30brand strategist
22:31in the
22:31states
22:31multi eight
22:32figure company
22:33and she
22:34wrote a
22:35book
22:35that was
22:36called
22:37this is
22:37actually my
22:37own
22:38personal
22:38I built
22:39the diagnostic
22:39my team
22:40built the
22:40diagnostic
22:40but this
22:41is a
22:41personal
22:42experience
22:42that I
22:42had
22:43so where
22:44we built
22:47the diagnostic
22:48it was
22:48super complex
22:49multi-dimensional
22:50about 900
22:52and something
22:53test cases
22:54to get this
22:55thing approved
22:56all the rest
22:57to get it
22:57built and
22:58live
22:58so I had
22:59been through
22:59this thing
23:00like hundreds
23:01upon hundreds
23:02upon hundreds
23:03of times
23:03but when it
23:04went live
23:05I then finally
23:05got to go
23:06through it
23:06for real
23:07for me
23:07without doing
23:08test cases
23:09and things like
23:09that
23:09and what
23:10actually
23:11happened
23:11me
23:12and I'm
23:12now paying
23:12her very
23:13very handsomely
23:14many many
23:15many tens
23:16of thousands
23:16of dollars
23:16per annum
23:17to work
23:17with her
23:18because I
23:19got such
23:20insight
23:21into who
23:22I am
23:23my
23:24so her
23:25just to give
23:25you some
23:26context
23:26her diagnostic
23:27everybody has
23:28visionizer in
23:29them
23:30strategizer in
23:31them and
23:32mobilizer in
23:32them but we
23:33all have
23:33different blends
23:34of the three
23:35okay so I
23:36went through
23:36this I
23:37want my
23:37superpower
23:38I was a
23:39super
23:39super high
23:40mobilizer so
23:41I am like
23:42an executor
23:43I'm hyper
23:44productive I
23:44am amazing
23:45at getting
23:45stuff done
23:46that was my
23:47highest score
23:47my secondary
23:49was strategizer
23:50so I'm very
23:51strategic in
23:51terms of how
23:52I think but
23:53my weakest
23:53area was this
23:54the blue sky
23:55thinking and
23:55the big vision
23:56and all of
23:56that type of
23:57thing and
23:57what I
23:58actually discovered
23:59as part of
23:59that was
24:00twofold not
24:01just that I
24:02want to hire
24:03in that
24:03visionizer piece
24:04that I am
24:05missing or
24:07lacking but
24:08also to
24:09actually lean
24:10into my
24:11superpower which
24:12is the
24:12mobilizer piece
24:13whereas before
24:13I was trying
24:14to hide that
24:15because I
24:15didn't realize
24:16it was so
24:17valuable to
24:18my potential
24:18clients because
24:19I took that
24:20diagnostic I
24:21now know
24:22because of how
24:23it was framed
24:23and the copy
24:24and the
24:24positioning and
24:25everything that
24:26is actually my
24:26superpower I
24:28have added
24:28multiple six
24:29figures to
24:30our company
24:31revenue because
24:33I learned that
24:34about myself and
24:34was able to
24:35lean into it
24:36in my
24:37marketing
24:37processes and
24:38my sales
24:38processes etc
24:39and then I
24:40not only have
24:41I added
24:42multiple
24:43hundreds of
24:44thousands to
24:45my revenue
24:45from that
24:46I also then
24:47went on to
24:47hire her
24:48because the
24:49no-legged
24:50trust was
24:50there I
24:51had the
24:51breakthrough
24:52and I was
24:53like I
24:53need more
24:54of that
24:54so for
24:56executives
24:57you'll
24:57stuck on
24:58competing on
24:59price or
25:00credentials how
25:01can diagnostics
25:02move them out
25:03of the comparison
25:04entirely
25:05just out of
25:06comparison
25:06entirely so
25:07it's you
25:08don't a
25:09don't ever
25:09compete in
25:10price but
25:10b it is
25:11simply a
25:12positioning play
25:13and what I
25:14mean by that
25:14is the
25:15multiple six
25:16figure client
25:16that I
25:17mentioned
25:17earlier who
25:18shall remain
25:18nameless just
25:19to protect
25:19all of that
25:20they are
25:21paying me to
25:22do a
25:23very very
25:24very similar
25:25project that
25:26I did a
25:27few years
25:28back with
25:28somebody who
25:29was at a
25:29completely
25:30different
25:31caliber of
25:32investment
25:33not even
25:3410k
25:34okay it
25:36is a
25:36positioning
25:37piece
25:38so who
25:39are we
25:40selling our
25:41services or
25:42offers or
25:42products whatever
25:43they may be
25:44who are we
25:44selling them
25:45to first
25:46of all forget
25:47about diagnostics
25:48but how are we
25:48positioning that in
25:49the marketplace to
25:50bring in what we
25:51call the rich
25:52niche so how are we
25:53bringing in that
25:53absolute upper
25:54echelons of that
25:55specific market
25:56who will pay
25:57well for the
25:58exact same
25:59service as
26:00somebody who's
26:00going to
26:01browbe you for
26:02every dollar and
26:02cent okay who
26:03wants to live
26:04that life
26:04not me
26:05okay then the
26:06diagnostic is
26:08there to see
26:09you and your
26:10sales team
26:11heartache and
26:12time of having
26:13really horrible
26:14conversations with
26:15wrong fit people
26:16it is there as a
26:17filtration mechanism
26:18on purpose
26:19spitting out
26:19everybody who's
26:20not a good fit
26:21either sending
26:22them on their
26:22merry way or
26:23giving them
26:23something at an
26:24investment price
26:25that suits what
26:26they can do and
26:27then it filters
26:27for you all of
26:28the people who
26:29can afford to
26:30invest at the
26:30level you want
26:31to be serving
26:32them at
26:34so what
26:35you're talking
26:36about positioning
26:37that just
26:37question what
26:39mistakes do
26:40leaders make when
26:41they try to build
26:42diagnostics on
26:43their own without
26:44a clear positioning
26:45strategy
26:46well if I had a
26:48dollar for every
26:49single time it's
26:50like oh yeah I
26:50had a quiz I
26:51tried that didn't
26:52work for me and
26:53then you look at
26:53it and it's some
26:54sort of type form
26:55and they have like
26:57six eyeballs on
26:58it no leads
26:59you're like oh
27:00my goodness this is
27:01not what we're
27:01talking about okay
27:02so what I often
27:04see and especially
27:04with AI so we
27:05build a lot of
27:06agentic AI for
27:07solutions for our
27:08clients we are
27:09big big big down
27:10that rabbit hole so
27:11I'm an avid fan but
27:13what most people are
27:13doing now is they're
27:14like go to chat
27:15tpt and I want to
27:16build a quiz funnel
27:17and what should my
27:18questions be and
27:18then they plug that
27:19in to some AI
27:21tool and think then
27:23that that's a
27:24diagnostic so that
27:25is a huge issue
27:27because back to
27:28your point I'm going
27:29to steal that for
27:29future recordings is
27:31the power of the
27:32diagnostic is asking
27:35the questions that
27:36make them realize I
27:38would never even have
27:39thought of it from
27:40that angle that's
27:42what we're actually
27:43doing in a
27:43diagnostic okay and
27:45that is the piece
27:46that has you know
27:47all of our skill and
27:49all of our experience
27:49and years and years
27:51and years of doing
27:52these seeing what
27:53works well seeing
27:53what doesn't work
27:54well all of that is
27:56what actually goes
27:57into crafting one
27:58that actually works
28:00versus the version
28:01that you know
28:02anybody could pack
28:03up a quiz funnel
28:03tonight on chat
28:04tpt easy peasy
28:05like no problem
28:06okay it doesn't
28:07mean that that's
28:08going to work for
28:09your business so
28:10that that's one
28:11piece the second
28:12piece that I see
28:13happening a lot is
28:14where people start
28:17with like what
28:17should my quiz be
28:18and they start top
28:19of funnel they start
28:20with their quiz
28:21book okay forget
28:22all of that we
28:23begin so we deliver
28:24this as a VIP day
28:25with our clients
28:26either virtually or
28:27in person and we
28:28begin with the end
28:29in mind so where
28:30are we sending
28:31people what are
28:32our offers what
28:33are our services
28:33what are our
28:34products depending
28:35on what type of
28:35industry you're in
28:36then we reverse
28:37out of that to
28:38decide what's
28:39our sales mechanism
28:40is it you know
28:41if we are selling
28:43a $47 widget well
28:45we're not going to
28:45have an application
28:46funnel for that
28:47obviously okay so
28:48very very specific
28:49what are the sales
28:50mechanisms for the
28:51different offer
28:52types at different
28:53levels if you only
28:55have one offer
28:56these still work
28:57really way you
28:58just position the
28:59offer differently
29:00depending on the
29:01results that the
29:01person gets then
29:03you're coming out of
29:04that and trying to
29:05decide okay what are
29:07our categories or
29:07subcategories what are
29:09the questions that we
29:09need to ask so that
29:11when people answer
29:12them in a certain
29:13way this result that
29:14we give them makes
29:15sense and creates
29:17that desire and
29:17demand to work with
29:18us to implement the
29:19solution
29:20it creates the
29:24desire and the
29:25demand to work
29:26with us
29:26exactly
29:27I have one
29:28and I mentioned
29:30off air that I
29:30wish I would have
29:31met you sooner
29:31because I have put
29:32together some
29:34questionnaire type
29:35quizzes so this was
29:36a fascinating topic
29:37for me and one of
29:38the questions and
29:39real make it very
29:40concise was to
29:42target for business
29:43owners what is
29:45your annual payroll
29:47and two what is the
29:49discretionary effort of
29:50your average employee
29:50as you talked about
29:53getting people to
29:54realize oh I never
29:55thought of it that
29:55way well if they see
29:57hey I've got a ten
29:58million dollars in
29:59payroll and my
30:00average employee is
30:02engaged at a sixty
30:03percent effort level
30:04I'm paying ten
30:06million but I'm
30:07getting six million
30:08dollars worth of
30:08work accomplished
30:09that's a four million
30:10dollar profit leak
30:11and oh by the way
30:12if you said what
30:13were the words you
30:14used it will
30:15encourage them or
30:16motivate them to do
30:17business with you
30:17the desire and the
30:19demand so
30:19so imagine you're a
30:21business owner and
30:22you just found out
30:23you've got a four
30:23million dollar profit
30:24leak and the other
30:25thing that you realize
30:25is gee I've got really
30:27smart people but if we
30:29already had the tools
30:30and the knowledge to
30:31prevent this four
30:32million dollar profit
30:33leak we would have
30:34done it already so now
30:36there's that aha moment
30:37like hey this is what
30:38this is costing me it's
30:40because of that which I
30:41didn't realize and oh by
30:42the way I don't have the
30:43people tools systems or
30:45technology in place to
30:46fix this problem
30:47otherwise it already
30:48would have been fixed
30:48yeah so your job of
30:53your results pages and
30:55your personal follow-up
30:56reports which are all
30:57automated is to speak to
30:59exactly here's what we've
31:01just this is costing you
31:02four million dollars
31:03here's the positioning of
31:04the offer and exactly what
31:05we do for you to solve
31:07for that how we position
31:08that matches the
31:09investment ability that
31:10they have just told us
31:11inside the diagnostic that
31:12they do so it's just like
31:14my word now I get it
31:17apply to work with me
31:18here and in our case
31:19it's hey would you or
31:21your staff like to know
31:23how to do this and would
31:24you like to know what
31:24tools are necessary if so
31:26then here's a free offer
31:28to get access to those and
31:29oh by the way if you want
31:30to cut a check for speed
31:31and get to the end result
31:33you want faster then you
31:35can work with us to do
31:36that and there's a
31:36different environment
31:37yeah but to take that to
31:38a different level the
31:39people you would make
31:40here the free resources
31:41those would be your
31:42unqualified track the
31:44people who already have
31:45indicated that we know
31:46that you know we're
31:46willing to drop a
31:47million dollars in this
31:48because it's going to
31:49solve for a four million
31:50dollar gap they're
31:51actually getting they're
31:52not getting that here's
31:53the free stuff message
31:54they're just like they're
31:55getting the messaging
31:56and the positioning as
31:56to we know you're this
31:57caliber of person here's
31:59the next step for you
32:00so how do diagnostics help
32:02uncover problems that
32:04clients didn't know they
32:06had but immediately
32:07recognize once revealed
32:08like I that's just one
32:10for me but do you have
32:10any other examples
32:11yes so every single
32:13score-based diagnostic
32:14is an example here
32:15so where you have to
32:16remember so when people
32:17are going through this
32:18as a it's hard for you
32:19because you've built
32:19these so you get what's
32:21happening at the back
32:22end other people normal
32:23people have not built
32:24these okay so they are
32:25going through it from a
32:27consumer perspective
32:28answering questions they
32:30have no idea of the
32:31computations and the
32:32score-based algorithms and
32:34all of those things that
32:35are happening on the back
32:35end but what happens is
32:37they get to their results
32:38and then you're like well
32:40here's your overall results
32:41here's the breakdown of
32:42that result and then
32:43within these four areas
32:45now let's pop the hood
32:46on these and show you
32:47exactly where you stand
32:48and because then they're
32:49getting an actual score
32:51for each of these subsets
32:53they then start to see
32:54and build a picture of
32:56exactly what's going on
32:57for them specifically
32:58and because it's
32:59personalized it's
33:00related to them and
33:01then they see the offer
33:02that solves for exactly
33:04what they've you've just
33:05discovered that they're
33:05struggling with it's like
33:07oh my goodness that this
33:08this is for me this is
33:09actually the soul
33:10mission that I need
33:11you keep talking about
33:12what's in this for me and
33:13that is not lost on me
33:15so what role does
33:16specificity play in
33:18diagnostics and why does
33:19generic language just
33:21kill your authority
33:21so to me it's me it's the
33:23level of personalization
33:24because like again back to
33:25the very opening
33:26conversation on this and
33:27those like awful
33:28messages we're all getting
33:30bombarded with day and
33:31daily it's like hey it's
33:34like these people can't be
33:35making anyone because like
33:37who answers these things
33:38okay when you have an
33:40experience that the result
33:43is personalized to you
33:45it's speaking to you by
33:46name so it's like hey
33:48Maeve you know here's where
33:49you are here's what's going
33:50on here's what we've
33:51discovered it is doing it
33:53in a respectful way not a
33:55gross bro marketer like
33:58you know kneel on your
33:59pain points type way people
34:00feel heard they feel
34:02understood and as one of
34:03our clients they said on a
34:05sales conversation they were
34:06like I feel so seen those
34:10are the words that they
34:11used before they hopped
34:12into a multi six-figure
34:13engagement so how do you
34:15get you hinted at this
34:17earlier but how do you get
34:18potential clients to
34:19participate in your
34:21processes and provide the
34:23data you need especially if
34:24it takes a little bit of
34:25effort on their part yeah so
34:27this is the this is the
34:28topic conversation and I
34:29always laugh about this one
34:30because we build diagnostic
34:32assessments for a living
34:33this is this is what we do
34:34and I will be the first
34:36person to say that having a
34:38diagnostic there is
34:40absolutely pointless if you
34:42don't have a traffic
34:42strategy you gotta run water
34:44through the pipes okay so you
34:46see this all the time people
34:47build assets and they don't
34:49actually have any there's
34:51nobody going through them okay
34:52so there's three main ways so
34:54we're obviously got the paid
34:54traffic strategy that I
34:55mentioned earlier and you
34:57don't have to spend a million
34:58dollars a month in ads that
34:59was just one of our clients
35:00even like 50 bucks a day in
35:02ads getting the right people
35:04we gotta run water through
35:06the pipe so that's one
35:07option the next option is
35:09what I call scalable organic
35:10it's actually my favorite and
35:12what scalable organic is is
35:14that instead of trying to get
35:16one person at a time to go
35:18through your thing I use
35:19scalable organic model which
35:21is podcast guesting which is
35:22what I'm doing right now as
35:24we're having this conversation
35:25where you're going to air this
35:27episode and you're going to
35:28have x number of thousands
35:30tens of thousands hundreds
35:31of thousands of listeners
35:32depending on the show who
35:34are then going to go on to go
35:36through your mechanism okay so
35:38that's another way I do a lot
35:40of guest master classes where I
35:42teach my subject matter
35:43expertise just like anybody
35:45else can in front of audiences
35:47where my ideal client is in
35:49the room they then go through
35:50the diagnostic okay same for I
35:52do a lot of keynote speaking so
35:54I'm speaking on stage and
35:55whether that's virtually or in
35:56person we have that
35:58infrastructure that asset that
36:00is used every single time I
36:02open my mouth every single
36:04post that is my team are
36:06putting out across social
36:07media so I write I write all
36:08of my own content by hand AI
36:11agents do repurpose in and
36:13then my team manage the
36:15process every single solitary
36:17touch point whether it's my
36:19LinkedIn my sub stack an email
36:20to my list everything is
36:22driving driving to the
36:23diagnostic and the whole idea
36:25is then as people are coming
36:26into our world we have them
36:29segmented from the get-go we're
36:30not there trying to figure out
36:32and have these discovery calls
36:34to see you know what level
36:35they're at and like oh no we
36:36don't work with people here you
36:37know at that stage anymore and
36:39all of that stuff it's the
36:40machine and the infrastructure
36:42sorts all of that for us but we
36:44have to have to have to have that
36:47traffic strategy otherwise it's
36:48just a really fancy thing sitting
36:50on the internet so it's like make
36:52your decisions around organic
36:54plays scalable organic plays and
36:56paid traffic plays and obviously
36:58you'll have it on your website
37:00too so you're like what are your
37:02current traffic strategies to get
37:03eyeballs on your stuff because we
37:05have to have water running through
37:07the pipes to be able to route the
37:09people to the right offer at the
37:10right time so I got a question for
37:12you because like Gary Vaynerchuk is
37:14famous for one of his quotes where
37:15he says marketers ruin everything and
37:17they have a good thing and everything
37:19the trust like I won't sign up for
37:21anything email we're using my
37:22real email address because I get
37:25pummeled with non-stop and even if I
37:27hit unsubscribe they don't care it's
37:30brute force like it happens so often
37:33it's like pathetic let's talk
37:35specifically about paid traffic what
37:37type of hooks are you able to put on
37:40an ad that would cut through that
37:43how do you overcome that built-in
37:47objection because marketers have abused
37:49trust so bad in the path that that a
37:52paid ad would actually work and get
37:54someone to say gee I think this makes
37:56sense to me I'll fill this thing out
37:58and take my chances you got to be
37:59doing something special to make that
38:01yeah work and I'm curious what tips
38:03or ideas you have for that so there
38:05are four thousand ways to answer this
38:08question but I give one example of a
38:12play that you can use here so three
38:15play campaigns are and awareness
38:17campaigns are super super super like
38:19literally pennies on the dollar to get
38:23eyes on you okay they're then watching
38:27a quick 15 minute or 15 seconds of a
38:31video clip of you connection no like and
38:34trust okay so that's one piece that's
38:36just an awareness campaign really really
38:38low ad spend what we can then do and
38:40this is this is where your diagnostic
38:43becomes the self-fulfilling flight
38:45wheel it's one of my favorite agents
38:47AI agents that we have built so
38:49essentially what you're doing in your
38:51very first round of paid traffic you're
38:53going to push paid traffic to your best
38:56performance organically okay so you've
38:59got a piece of content you know it's
39:00capturing people organically so you're
39:02like this is my winner for now we're
39:04going to run paid traffic to this we're
39:06then retargeting through play viewers of
39:09the awareness video they've seen your
39:10face they trust you they like you
39:12they're like she she might be my
39:13person he looks like actually he might
39:15actually be a decent guy okay so that
39:17piece is there we're then send in the
39:20invitation to take the diagnostic to
39:22those people who are a little bit little
39:24okay and then this is where it gets
39:26really cool so the more data the more
39:29people the more water you run through
39:30the pipes in the diagnostic don't forget
39:32at the back end you are getting insane
39:35amounts of data on your market what
39:37they're struggling with what they need
39:39what they want etc everybody is getting
39:42hyper segmented into different buckets
39:45depending on what they're struggling with
39:46the most the data then informs here's the
39:51angles that you want to speak to so this
39:53is where you'll start to see ads and
39:54you're like oh my word like that is
39:58literally what is going on for me okay and
40:01we're able to get that so accurate and so
40:03specific because the data that we get
40:06from all of the people who have gone
40:07through our assessment so far gives us
40:10that guidance we have AI agents both that
40:13do this all autonomously and they
40:15literally tell us what the feedback and
40:16top of funnel ad copy that then is just
40:20this just gets stronger and so as the
40:22diagnostic gets smarter and smarter and
40:23smarter and smarter more and more traffic
40:25through it the agent knows better and
40:28better and better here's what's working
40:29here's what's not here are the pieces of
40:31copy that attracted the people who only
40:34had five thousand dollars to spend here
40:37are the pieces of copy who attracted the
40:38multi six-figure buyer or whatever your
40:40equivalent is and then therefore feeds
40:43back to our marketing channel do more of
40:46this do less of this do more of this do
40:48less of this and it just becomes a
40:50self-optimizing flywheel over time where
40:52the diagnostic itself informs your marketing
40:56efforts that land with your people and
40:59then they go through this it's a
41:00personalized experience and they then
41:02go on I think our clients do to work
41:04with you for years to come interesting
41:06so I really appreciate your time I as
41:09I've learned a lot already and if there
41:11was only if you could only give one piece
41:13of advice of your most valuable advice to
41:16people that are tuning in today what
41:18would it be and why so it is the super
41:21quick fix this is not building a diagnostic
41:24as a as a project shift your who top of
41:28funnel there's so many people when you
41:31when you actually sit down and critique
41:33what you're putting out and you're like
41:36it's almost embarrassing you're like is
41:38it any wonder we were bringing through
41:39these types of people or is it any
41:41wonder we were bringing in people who
41:43had this objection and that objection
41:44that's exactly what we like we're
41:46speaking to and think so it's like look
41:48at your top of funnel messaging
41:51positioning copy and say think to
41:54yourself what type of person what type
41:57of buyer at what level are they going
42:00to bring are we bringing these people
42:01in if there's a mismatch between what
42:03we're trying to the value we're bringing
42:05to this world the price point of the
42:08investment that it is to work with us to
42:10bring that value to the world is there a
42:13mismatch between the who that is coming
42:16through that is a right now tweak that
42:19you then yes you can build the
42:21diagnostics and all of those fancy
42:23things in due course but that one
42:25single shift will change the entire
42:27trajectory of your company thank you
42:29for that so for people who want to know
42:31more about you your company and the work
42:33you do what's the best way for them to
42:34connect and so linkedin is our main
42:37platform okay so just connect with me on
42:39linkedin just shoot us a dm and let us
42:42know that you heard us on this show and
42:44we'll take the conversation from there and
42:46if you want to see an example of a
42:47diagnostic you can go to impact score
42:49assessment.com could you say that a
42:51little bit more slowly impact score
42:53assessment awesome thank you so much i
42:56appreciate your time i hope that those
42:58watching and listening today had as much
43:00fun and learned as much as i did i really
43:02appreciate your time may thank you thank
43:04you so much amazing conversation i really
43:06enjoyed it
43:06thank you so much
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