Stop Saying “Sorry”: The Leadership Habit That Kills Credibility (With Dr. Liz DuBois Erskine)

Workforce Alchemy

What makes a leader lose credibility before they even realize it?  In this episode, Mason Duchatschek talks with Dr. Liz DuBois Erskine, a PhD conflict analyst and executive coach, about the small communication habits that can quietly weaken authority, trust, and executive presence.  Dr. Liz shares why over-apologizing can make leaders seem less confident, why trying too hard to prove you are smart can confuse people instead of persuading them, and how direct accountability can defuse criticism faster than defensiveness.  They also discuss what to do when you are interrupted or talked over, why unresolved workplace conflict creates anxiety across a team, and how leaders can stop tolerating situations where they are consistently undervalued.  This conversation is especially useful for business owners, CEOs, executives, HR leaders, sales managers, and team leaders who want to communicate with more authority, handle conflict more effectively, and build stronger workplace relationships.  In this episode, you’ll learn: • Why saying “I’m sorry” too often can weaken executive presence • How to replace unnecessary apologies with stronger language • Why accountability earns respect in high-pressure leadership moments • How leaders accidentally give away authority in conversations • What to say when someone interrupts or talks over you • Why avoiding conflict creates more anxiety, not less • How people pleasing can lead to burnout and underperformance • Why being undervalued often requires an internal shift before an external move  Guest: Dr. Liz DuBois Erskine Website: https://coachdrliz.com/ Email: drliz@drlizdebois.com  Connect With Workforce Alchemy Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/ X / Twitter: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist Rumble: https://rumble.com/user/WorkforceAlchemy Dailymotion: https://www.dailymotion.com/WorkforceAlchemy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist  Connect With Mason Website: https://masonduchatschek.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonduchatschek/  Topics covered: leadership communication, executive presence, workplace conflict, conflict resolution, people pleasing, burnout, leadership coaching, women in leadership, male-dominated workplaces, business leadership, CEO leadership, HR leadership, sales leadership, team leadership, employee engagement, retention, workforce strategy  #LeadershipCommunication #ExecutivePresence #WorkplaceConflict #LeadershipCoaching #BusinessLeadership #CEOLeadership #HRLeadership #TeamLeadership #WorkforceAlchemy

Transcript

00:05welcome to the mason duke attack show this episode is brought to you by workforce alchemy

00:11helping leaders improve hiring engagement and retention while uncovering people related profit

00:16leaks hidden in everyday operations today's guest is dr liz dubois erskine a phd conflict analyst

00:25and executive coach who helps high performers break patterns of people pleasing burnout and

00:31fear of judgment with a background that includes roles at disney and i heart radio she brings a

00:36direct no-nonsense approach to executive presence navigating male-dominated environments and

00:42redefining success beyond hustle culture so happy to have you here thanks for joining us thanks for

00:47having me so when you think about high pressure leadership environments what are the small

00:53behaviors that tend to separate people who are taken seriously from those who are not

00:57oh for me this always goes into like a really significant gender dichotomy because i see

01:02women do this much more so than men and it's such a an instant credibility sucker which is apologizing

01:10oh i'm sorry oh excuse me oh i'm so sorry i'm so sorry where women are apologizing for not much

01:17right

01:17like they they fumble the check card as they're like getting their morning latte or you know let

01:22me just get by this person on the metro platform oh my gosh i'm so sorry versus like excuse me

01:27and

01:28this comes into play in every single setting in life and of course when it comes into a work-like

01:34setting and you're a leader the consistent apologizing simply for existing versus saying

01:40excuse me or thank you for your patience right instantly oh i'm so sorry oh excuse me i'm so sorry

01:45i'm so

01:45sorry this consistent apologizing really undermines the kind of the premise that you're allowed to be

01:53somewhere and you're allowed to take up space right and so the big thing that i see happen in leadership

02:00roles where women do this is it undermines their credibility and they're very concerned with being

02:07seen as approachable and collaborative and this gets translated into i want to make sure that nobody else

02:15thinks i'm above them or better than them not above them in the sense of a hierarchy at work but

02:20that i'm that i'm a better person or that i think more highly of myself than i really should and

02:26the

02:26apologizing plays a role in communicating that where i just want to make sure that you don't think that i

02:33think too much of myself i'm so sorry if this came across in a way that made you uncomfortable whatever

02:39um that's a big one for me is that i'm so sorry and that's something that could apply to men

02:44too

02:45i mean that's an easy win that you've just given anybody listening is to handle things instead of

02:51like just like you said but not apologizing but just say well thank you or i appreciate you waiting

02:56for me versus oh i'm sorry that you had to wait like i love that so in meetings where ideas

03:01are

03:01challenged or ignored what have you seen people do in the moment that actually earns them respect versus

03:07losing the room i think taking accountability i have a client who is just a absolute genius at

03:13this he was in leadership in first responder capacity for decades he was well sought after

03:20respected leader in a first responder capacity just as high literally life or death high pressure

03:26situations actual life or death high pressure situations and his response to criticism if he's

03:32done something wrong is to instantly be like i was wrong i was wrong and it takes the

03:36the air out it takes the fight out of people they kind of almost don't know what to do with

03:41it and

03:42because of this client he doesn't know this my my household my personal household we've adopted this

03:47stance of if you do something wrong you just instantly say i was wrong and you were right and it

03:52was kind of

03:53started as a joke of like you get to be like i was right and you were wrong and it's

03:59still a little bit

03:59tongue-in-cheek but in my household and in my marriage we have a culture of my bad right that

04:05was on me and there's no defensiveness built into it it's just i did that and it's on my shoulders

04:12and

04:13i take accountability and responsibility for it let me let me know how to go from here in a way

04:19that

04:19like makes amends for that or you know makes it possible for us to move forward i think that brings

04:25huge credibility and respect to people because nobody's on the defense anymore so that's two

04:32questions and two easy wins we're on a roll so what are some of the most common ways that leaders

04:37unintentionally give up authority in conversations without realizing it i think trying to prove that

04:42you're smart undermines credibility and legitimacy you know really going into a conversation queued up

04:49to make sure that everybody knows you're the main character is a way that turns people off

04:55and i i see this actually i have a client who i'm helping her rewrite her contracts right now

05:00because they're they're not being received with oh hell yeah let's go move forward so she'll get this

05:05verbal yes and then she sends over the contract and there's a lot of like confusion about this doesn't

05:10match what we said even though if you really carefully read it it a hundred percent matches but she's

05:16added all sorts of language to kind of couch the thing that is really going to happen financially

05:23because she she wants to make sure everybody feels okay and comfortable and so she's using all of

05:29this language to prove that there's value to her work and making herself seem so smart and in the

05:35process it's making everyone confused well wait a second straight up like what is it that you bring

05:40to the table here and that happens in conversations all the time where people are very eager to have

05:46their value understood and they're eager to be seen as experts and they position themselves in a way

05:52that everybody's like what is this person even talking about right like i don't understand and

05:57they don't walk away with a clear i call it the with them factor what's in it for me they

06:02don't walk

06:03away with a clear understanding of what's in it for them to work with this person or to collaborate

06:08with this person in some way and so if you're walking in the door and you're worried about being

06:13proving yourself or being seen as intelligent versus giving a clear understanding to someone

06:18of why they should work with you or why they should go along with what your idea is or buy

06:22into your

06:23you know vision of the future whatever it is if you don't give them a clear what's in it for

06:28me

06:28versus here's why i'm smart you're not doing yourself any service and plus if people are trying

06:34to impress you with the here's why i'm smart people don't want to help them i mean at a certain

06:39point

06:39in time it's like well you're so smart what do you need me for and they'll just sit back and

06:42watch

06:42them flounder so when someone is interrupted or talked over repeatedly what response tends to

06:49escalate the situation what response tends to reset it oh that's such a hard one right i just think of

06:55the last presidential election um or they call it the debates right where kamala harris kept saying

07:01i'm still talking right i'm not i'm not done talking here that can be i think really abrasive and in

07:07that's in that situation it was meant to be abrasive right like she was she was doing that to

07:12highlight the fact that she was being talked over i think that there's ways to call attention to the

07:17fact that you're not being able to get your voice heard without being without confronting someone

07:23and putting them on the defense right i think in all communication the goal is to make sure that

07:28you're coming across in a way that somebody else doesn't feel like gotcha like put on the spot or

07:34called out you want to want to make people feel called in right so an invitation versus an accusation

07:41accusation is you're talking over me an invitation is i have something i'd really like to clarify

07:46can you hold off for just a second while i finish my thought and and we i can have like

07:51a debate with

07:52anybody about should you really have to do that and does that put women in a position of appeasing you

07:58know broader power structures and like i think that there's reasons why women get talked over

08:02still that are very power laden that reinforce social structures without men intending to do so

08:10but i don't think that there's a lot of value in playing like gotcha with people when you're being

08:17talked over so what happens over time when someone avoids unnecessary conflict at the leadership level

08:22what does that look like in real terms generally it looks like things fall apart and there's only

08:27so i think about it like a marriage right a relationship with your company is just the same

08:32as any other relationship right like it's a relationship a partnership that you're trying to

08:36make work and and make a living from right i for most people right they're not running a company

08:42because it's their passion and they don't do anything else for work right there's generally a profit

08:48motive involved even if it's just let me pay for the groceries i think when we sweep conflict under

08:54the rug whether it's in marriage whether it's in a company whether it's in a relationship with your

08:58children what ends up happening is people are keenly aware of the conflict and then become anxious about

09:04when it's all going to blow up so instead of having the the discomfort or the anxiety of addressing a

09:11conflict head-on you now have the discomfort of everyone's aware of the fact that something is very wrong

09:16and they're aware of the fact that it's unsustainable and so you have two two sources of kind of anxiety

09:22or discomfort one is the actual conflict and then two is the fact that people are tiptoeing around it

09:27and waiting for it to blow up and so i think anytime there's anytime you have an awareness of something

09:34that has the potential to cause a problem you should address the problem being quiet about it is

09:41generally not the right answer i had a conflict today i have a potential client that wants to work

09:46with me was made aware that they have a an unsavory background my husband encouraged me to do a deeper

09:52google search than i had done and this is probably not a person i want to work with and then

09:57i called my

09:57mentor and i said what would you do with this information i found this information do i bring it to

10:03the

10:03potential clients attention that this exists on the internet and he said no no you don't right because

10:09i'm avoiding a conflict in some senses right but i'm avoiding working with someone who has the

10:15potential to be a real conflict it's it's the lack of awareness that bites people in the butt and then

10:22it's the um unwillingness to deal with an awareness of it right so there's this kind of twofold there's

10:28the stuff you don't know that you don't know and then when you know that their conflict exists the

10:32stuff you know that you don't know that's when you take it head on and you say what's the best

10:36way for

10:36me to address this even if that looks like walking away which is the conflict that i was dealing with

10:42in a male in male dominated environments what patterns have you observed around how ideas are

10:47received depending upon how they are delivered but give me some more context because that's a pretty

10:52broad question well i mean it's because i've operated in in both male and female and or maybe you

10:59don't see a difference do you do you observe any differences in how ideas are are received whether

11:04someone's male or female i think it depends on the context right like it's so industry specific i think

11:10when you think about like banking and law firm legal field writ large you've got institutions that have

11:17been in place for hundreds of years that are governing how business is done and so even when you have

11:24a

11:24market or a an industry become more saturated like the legal industry being a really good example more

11:30women than men are graduating from law school at this point and yet we see in the upper echelons of

11:35legal practice right the most partners are still male if you're looking at more legacy firms in those

11:43circumstances i think you have to present your ideas in ways that are more devoid of emotion that don't

11:51give as much personal background that give people the bare facts and just the facts and when you're

11:57communicating in spaces that especially like the non-profit space is ubiquitous for her is uh just

12:02like i think of this as endemic in the non-profit space where you just like add lots of personal

12:07detail and lots of feeling and here's all the reasons why this idea is coming to coming to mind and

12:13why we

12:13should do it so i think it's it's really context specific you know what i'll give you a little bit

12:18i had

12:18an interview probably about a year ago with dr don barden and he wrote a book called here come the

12:22girls and i was

12:23fascinated and he talked about how women are taking over leadership and how they receive things

12:28differently where if it's a male responsible that when someone comes to him typically he already says

12:34well then just go do this or just go do that oh in reality of people he said a very

12:38high percentage i

12:39can't quote the percentage but it was very high percent of the time people already know what to do

12:42they don't need to be told what to do but females and females tend to be much more collaborative

12:47instead of just saying we'll go do this they'll just they are much more involving and collaborative

12:52and take advantage of the collective genius of the team around them and the team around them is

12:57typically more likely to contribute to that because of how it is received and i was just i was just

13:03curious how to take on that but i i found his book fascinating i found him fascinating i learned a

13:07lot

13:08from him so uh when someone realizes that they've been consistently undervalued in the room what's the

13:13most effective way to shift that perception without making a dramatic move or is a dramatic move

13:17necessary you know i it's like there's there's room around you the external and then there's the the

13:23temperature set within you like the internal what are the internal changes that you have to make and

13:28then are there external changes that you have to make right i'm thinking specifically i have a client

13:33that was she's in a male-dominated field and she was at a firm where she had uh 200 cases

13:40and the

13:41industry standard was 50 and she would ask for support ask for help ask for you know all sorts

13:47of different stuff saying like basically like hey gentlemen this is ridiculous help me out here what's

13:53going on like let's get this addressed and the the feedback that kept coming her way was you're

13:57doing a great job right it was not actually anything that would help her right she was being

14:04undervalued in the sense that they they weren't valuing her as a person right they were saying

14:09you're this little work cog and like go get it done and if you can't get it done that's because

14:13you suck not because the external environment right and so she did the work of leveling up

14:20internally and saying well what is it about me that led me to be in a situation where i think

14:26that this

14:26is acceptable behavior and that i'm not walking away from this situation when it's been made clear

14:31to me that they're not going to change it right and so she changed her internal kind of temperature

14:35set point of this is what i'm willing to tolerate this is what is acceptable in my eyes and she

14:41then

14:42left that job and ended up with a firm that had the industry standard that was appropriate from a

14:48caseload standpoint that she was being paid more that she got a bump in title all those sorts of good

14:53things and that external change right leaving the firm and going somewhere else where she was valued

14:59couldn't have happened without the internal change first which is how how is it that i'm in this

15:05situation what is it about my psyche was about my baggage that i'm bringing to the table that's led me

15:12to believe that this is the way that i'll allow people to treat me if there was just one piece

15:17of advice

15:17that you could give to anybody watching or listening today what would be the most important piece of

15:21advice you could give and why hire a coach my life changed when i hired a coach i was talking

15:27the same client we were reworking her her contract this morning said she was talking about the value

15:32of the product is eight hundred dollars a month but the price tag is six hundred i was like you

15:37know

15:37the freaking value of this product you don't know if this is like the thing that takes their company

15:42to a million dollars right my first coach she was ten thousand dollars for one month i would spend that

15:48money over a hundred times because at this point the value of that has been infinite right i have a

15:56company six and a half years later still because of her that's profitable right i have a paid off car

16:00i have a paid off house i have i got my husband using some of the like make a facebook

16:06group get

16:07people in it you'll find interesting people and then you'll network and like i met my husband in a

16:11facebook group that i had created you know like you don't know the value of working with a coach until

16:17you work with someone who's phenomenally talented and all of a sudden your whole life changes so

16:21i have a therapist i have a business mentor and those two people are invaluable to my company to

16:27my personal life but i also have a business coach and she's the one that really is the compass that

16:34helps me move forward in the right direction people want to know more about you and the work you do

16:38what

16:38are the best ways for them to connect easiest ways through my website which is just coach dr liz.com

16:43so coach spelled by coach d-r-l-i-z.com and you can shoot me an email just at

16:50dr liz at dr liz

16:51debois.com and i'm also on facebook just as biz dr liz if you're a lady or consider yourself such

16:58um i have a facebook group called ladies who lunch it's a referral network just for women we're

17:03starting the good old girls smoke-filled back rooms all that good stuff um so you can find us at

17:08ladies who lunch which is a facebook group it's been a pleasure having you thanks for joining us today

17:13thanks for having me

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