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03:14Welcome to Beyond the Tape.
03:16I'm your host, Mark Basant.
03:17Welcome to our viewers across Trinidad and Tobago, our global viewers, and of course, our brothers and sisters in the Isle of Grenada.
03:24It's Friday, and of course, I'm wearing my colors because I know Trinidad and Tobago is playing a little later today against St. Kitts and Nevis in the Hesley Crawford Stadium.
03:35So I hope a lot of people will be going down there a little later this afternoon.
03:39And today with us is, from the Southland, Inspector Ramdeo Ronald Sukdeo, a legal officer, master court prosecutor for the Southern Division.
03:50Welcome, sir.
03:51I know it's your first time.
03:52Yes, it's.
03:53But I know you have a wealth of knowledge to bless us here with today.
03:57Yes, thank you very much, Mr. Mark.
04:00And good afternoon to the viewing public.
04:04Yes, so I know, you know, one of the major things that have transcended the media in the last 24 hours is, of course, school violence.
04:14It's a really horrific case of a female student being attacked by several other students.
04:20And, of course, the prime minister making the announcement at the post cabinet yesterday that expulsion and arrest for school violence going forward.
04:30In this particular case, the victim was severely injured, according to, I mean, she had a fractured nose, you know, blood clots to her eye, as well as a tooth that was kicked out from her.
04:46So, such extreme force, Inspector, and certainly it's very sobering because it's a concern for parents across Trinidad and Tobago when school violence raises ugly head in such a manner.
04:59Yes, of course, Mark, that is something, you know, when I look at that video, it's something of great concern to us and to everyone in Trinidad and Tobago to look at that violence in this, what is happening in these institutions.
05:18It is troubling.
05:48And perhaps in not too distant future, there will be charges preferred against these persons.
05:58And I know there's a process and I know you, as a man of the court and a prosecutor, would be able to kind of walk us through some of the things that obviously they will have to do before these persons are brought before the courts.
06:09So, yeah, an investigation is being conducted, Mark, and persons will be arrested and charged for these offenses, not because you are a student.
06:26Yes.
06:26It is the right to engage or you will be excused from the full brunt of the law with regards to this.
06:34So, being a student, you will not be excused, right?
06:39The law is for all and investigation will be held just like any other investigation in this matter.
06:47Yeah, I know that the Prime Minister was very firm yesterday at the post-cabinet, indicating going forward, we will treat every occurrence of assault or battery as an arrestable offense, also expellable offense, to put these persons before the courts.
07:07And I know that we have had a discussion here on this program many times about even those that are filming this atrocious act here.
07:17And they too, in some way, are also culpable.
07:22Well, it depends on the, you know, I would not see any investigation being done in respect to that.
07:28Yeah.
07:29But they were just merely there, you know, filming, not actually participating in the crime itself.
07:37So, we can, you know, more or less exclude that part.
07:41But it might be socially incorrect to, you know, be filming when something like that is happening.
07:47Yeah, obviously, and I know there will obviously be questions asked about, you know, the behavior.
07:53And I know that the Minister of Education, Dr. Michael Dowlath, and the Minister of Homeland Security, Mr. Roger Alexander,
08:02went to the Southeast Portospin School this afternoon.
08:06And they just recently issued a press release.
08:08And, of course, I had a very brief discussion with the Minister of Education just before the program.
08:13And what he was telling me was that they met with the staff members of the school because, you know, there's CXE and so on happening.
08:21So, there's not a lot of students at the school compound.
08:25And he said that they obviously are offering support systems for the teachers.
08:31And these teachers have always been a pillar of strength for these students.
08:36And one of the things that resonated with me, Inspector, was that he said that the teachers were a bit confuffled by this incident
08:46because there were no previous red flags by these particular students who were involved in the beating.
08:54And some of them apparently happened to also be athletes, school athletes.
08:59In the school, you know, you have that kind of, you know, people look up to athletes in a school.
09:04So, even the teachers who are a bit taken back by the behavior of some of these persons,
09:09they have not shown anything or any aggression before in any particular instance apparently, at least not on the school compound.
09:16So, it's kind of like a very challenging situation.
09:18It's a situation that just got out of control.
09:21Indeed.
09:22So, it's surprising to know that, you know, these students, nothing was, you know, against them previously.
09:30And this situation came out of this.
09:34Well, we definitely will have to look on and see what transpires in the coming weeks about this particular investigation.
09:41But I know that the students in question has been suspended until at least July 17th.
09:47Yes.
09:47And I think they will have other, as the police investigation goes on, they will decide what is going to happen next.
09:53Obviously, we don't want to see these young children who are involved in this incident just being thrown on the wayside.
10:01But we have to find a sense of, you know, counseling for them to understand their mindset.
10:07And I'm sure some of them are probably very sorry about what has happened now.
10:13Of course.
10:14And in retrospect, they were like, did we really have to do that?
10:18You know?
10:20Yes.
10:20All right.
10:22We're going to take a look now at our headlines.
10:24We're going to take a look now at our headlines.
10:54So those are some of the headlines within the past 24 hours.
11:00And, of course, the inspector traveling all the way from south, you know, and being a master prosecutor in the courts and so on.
11:07So I know that there are a lot of questions that the simple person or the citizenry would like to understand and answer.
11:15And I think one of the things is that a lot of times you see persons are detained or persons are arrested.
11:22And I think there's some difference there.
11:25And I know you will be able to bring clarity to the citizens.
11:27Yes.
11:29So, Mark, what we have, once an offense has been committed outside there, that person must be brought before a court.
11:40Right?
11:41So there are different ways in which a person can be brought before the court by means of a summons, arrest with a warrant, arrest without a warrant.
11:49So a summons will be issued where there is no difficulty in finding that person and bringing that person before the court.
11:57So a summons would effectively bring that person before the court.
12:01So a warrant of arrest, arrest warrant, this is where someone is actually evading the police.
12:13Right?
12:13So you commit an offense and any time the police go there, you jump through the back window and you go on about the business.
12:21Right?
12:21So any time the police come, they cannot find you.
12:23In that situation, you will have to obtain a warrant for that person's arrest.
12:32Okay?
12:32And then you have the other powers where you can arrest someone without a warrant.
12:39Right?
12:39So is it the procedure for...
12:41In that regard, sorry to cut your question, in that regard, is the second instance, is it fair to say then that the person has just been detained without warrant?
12:51Well, to detain somebody, you have to arrest them because a detention is restraining somebody from their free movement.
13:06Right?
13:06So the mere fact that you detain somebody and let's say, for example, I am at this office here and I want to leave.
13:15And the police come and say, no, you cannot leave.
13:18You actually detain that person.
13:20So that is what you call a constructive arrest.
13:22Okay.
13:23Right?
13:23So there is nothing to say that at detention, you have to arrest somebody and detain them.
13:29So there isn't any really marked difference between detained and arrested.
13:35Well, the arrest is actually the new process.
13:38Right.
13:38And when you arrest someone, you can detain them.
13:42Okay.
13:42All right?
13:42I hope that is clear enough for our viewers, of course, because I know there's always this little gray where people will attend.
13:50And that's why, you know, having you on this show would be able to give some kind of clarity.
13:55Some kind of clarity, yes.
13:56And in a sense, what is the responsibility of a police officer in effecting an arrest?
14:02Right.
14:02So the first thing when a police officer approaches a suspect is to identify yourself to that person.
14:12Right.
14:12So we do that by showing that person your identification card and badge.
14:17Even if, well, whether you're in plain clothes or in full uniform, right?
14:24More so if you're in plain clothes.
14:25Because you're in plain clothes and you're going out there.
14:29And I tell you you're under arrest without actually identifying myself.
14:34Yeah.
14:34Then you will have some problem.
14:36Right?
14:36So the first stage is, the first step is to identify yourself.
14:41Right?
14:42When you identify yourself, you tell the person what investigation you are doing and the inquiries, the purpose.
14:53So if you're going to arrest that person, you must tell them the purpose of that arrest.
14:59After that, if an offense has been committed, you caution that person.
15:03And we'll go through the caution a little bit later.
15:06All right.
15:07Right?
15:07And you caution that person, the person now in your custody.
15:15Right?
15:16And you inform those persons of their constitutional rights and so on.
15:23All right?
15:26Searching of the person and then you take them to the court and then the process and then to the court.
15:33Okay.
15:33To the police station.
15:34Yes.
15:34All right.
15:35We're going to take a short break and we'll be back.
15:37Stay with us.
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18:46Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
19:00I'm your host, Mark Moss, and of course, joined today by Inspector Ramde Ronald Sukde, the legal officer, master court prosecutor for the Southern Division.
19:10And you were just walking us through the steps of when somebody is arrested and the procedure of, you know, when everything is finished or completed at the police station, you then take them to court.
19:23Yeah?
19:23Yes.
19:24So, Mark, I spoke of the caution, so I will go through it.
19:27So, when you look at the shows on U.S., in U.S., right?
19:35Yes.
19:36You would see when these officers effect on arrest, you would hear them saying, you have a right to remain silent, anything you say can be used against you in the court of law.
19:49So, they refer to it as the Miranda warning, in terms of that, we use the judges' rules.
19:55And it is really to tell the arrested person that you are not obliged to say anything unless you wish to do so.
20:04So, it's similar to the U.S. provision, right?
20:07But whatever you say in writing may be given in evidence.
20:11So, we actually use three, the major three questions.
20:17Well, the first one, judges' rule one.
20:19Right.
20:19And let me speak about the judges' rule a little bit.
20:22This is the procedure that we use during the course of our investigation, right?
20:28It's common law that we follow from the English legal system.
20:33So, judges' rule one gives the police the power to question anybody whom he has written in the course of belief has some sort of information concerning arrest.
20:49So, judges' rule two, where an offense has been committed and there's written in the course of the suspect that that person committed the offense,
20:59you caution them under judges' rule two.
21:01So, you continue investigation and anything after that caution, number two, anything that you interview that suspect, you take notes.
21:18If the suspect decides to give a statement, you must record those statements, right?
21:25And you record the time of those statements, who were present.
21:30When you have enough evidence to charge, you inform or you're informing the person that he will be charged or informing him that he will be charged,
21:44you will exercise judges' rule three.
21:47Okay.
21:48So, I mean, all the rules apply in this instance to a person when you arrest that person and they are charged?
21:56That's the standard rules.
21:59Those are the rules that we follow.
22:02Right.
22:02That, so I was, and I was explaining the procedure for effecting an arrest.
22:07When you caution that person, tell him of the offense, as the case may be, you also inform him of his constitutional rights and privileges.
22:20A right attorney, right, the legal representation, as the case may be, rights, rights to be fed, rights.
22:32There are several rights under the Police Service Act that we must inform the accused person.
22:40We search that person and we carry them to the station.
22:43You raise a point there about searching a person.
22:47And, of course, by extension, if you are on a compound, a search also has to be conducted on that particular compound.
22:56If you could walk us through in terms of, I know you would probably need a search warrant to obviously get onto a compound and search the compound.
23:04And does that search also constitute being a warrant that is encompassing as it deals with the person as well?
23:14So, for dwelling houses, right, if you are not allowed to go there by the person living there, you must obtain a search warrant or search that promises for whatever it be, legal drugs, finance.
23:26That extends, sorry, to also physically search in the person as well, or does that?
23:30Yes, yes.
23:30Okay.
23:31Yeah.
23:31All right.
23:32Go ahead.
23:35The different type of, different legislations would guide the police, right, so in terms of searches and obtaining the warrants and so on.
23:44Has there been any tricky situation that police officers have gotten themselves in as it pertains to the execution of a search warrant and, you know, that you can remember in the past?
23:58Yes.
23:59So, what happens, sometimes you get resistance, right?
24:03So, you go at a premises and you have dogs, right?
24:06Sometimes you might see four big pit bulls in a yard and you have to go and execute a warrant and the person inside that house, they decide, well, I'm not opening the door, right?
24:19So, how are you going to bypass four big dogs to go and execute that suit warrant and that premises?
24:25So, these are some of the things that you might encounter.
24:29Sometimes you'll encounter resistance in terms that sometimes persons would cooperate.
24:35When the police go there and you identify yourself and you tell that person in that dwelling house, I have a search warrant to search your premises, they cooperate with the police.
24:47But then you might be, you might end up in a situation where someone would just refuse to open the door.
24:55So, there you would have to use force.
24:57Right.
24:57Yeah.
24:57Right?
24:58Yeah.
24:58How do you, in your recollection, of course, being a master in court and so on.
25:06A prosecutor.
25:07A prosecutor, sorry.
25:08My apologies.
25:09Can you recall, per se, an incident where a case involving something to do with a search or something might have fallen apart because they didn't follow proper procedure and how they would have executed the warrant?
25:25What happens here, Mark, the search, let's say the procedure to bring the person before the court, if that is illegal, it would not negate the offense per se.
25:44Right.
25:44So, if you have firearm and ammunition at a premises and the procedure, how you bring that person and that firearm before the court, if it is illegal, it would not negate the charge of possession of firearm and ammunition.
26:00Okay.
26:00That's interesting.
26:01Yes.
26:01How do you get around that?
26:03So, the thing is, and it's similar with arrest, arresting someone, if you have an unlawful arrest, right, and you bring that person before the court, but whilst you arrested that person for firearm and ammunition, you bring that person before the court, the substantive charge, firearm and ammunition, will still go on before the court because we can still prove that offense, right?
26:30But in terms of the search.
26:31Right, so the search is illegal, so that person, that arrested person, will have a civil redress in the civil court for an unlawful arrest.
26:42Okay.
26:43I understand the difference.
26:45And has there been, like, any particular, for instance, you talk about persons being searched, but if they're searched, their possession is searched without a search warrant and something illegal is found, how do you prompt her at the court?
27:01If your suspicion is that, if your suspicion is that, my suspicion as a police officer, that you have something illegal in your person, right, you don't need a search warrant for that.
27:15Okay.
27:15Right, so the general powers of the police under the criminal law act, the police service act, right, would give you that power, right, to search you without a warrant.
27:27Okay, and you don't really have to articulate anything to them in executing that search, whether you know, you know, reliable to search.
27:36No, you come back, you must tell the police, identify yourself, tell them of your suspicion and your observation as the case may be.
27:46You tell that person you believe that he may be in possession of firearm or illegal based on his action and stuff, and then you carry out your search.
27:54Okay, interesting.
27:56Have you, have you, I know you probably worked the courts for quite a while, and have you seen some pretty strong cases, you know, falling apart because of not proper procedures being done in this particular instance?
28:10We're talking about searches here.
28:11I don't want to be too broad in the questioning.
28:14Yes.
28:15But in your experience, and what could have been done better by the officers in respect to that matter or matters that would have fallen apart in the court?
28:24Well, as I said before, the search would not, the procedure would not negate the criminal charge.
28:32Okay.
28:32But, yes, the civil action can be instituted by the civil court, by the accused through his legal representative, as the case may be, through the civil courts.
28:45And some may argue that, you know, there are things that the police don't do properly when somebody is charged and brought before the courts.
28:54And we have seen that played out in the media and in the courts where matters are dismissed.
29:01I'm just talking in a very general sense here.
29:03And is there a need, perhaps, for police officers to be better educated or better equipped to understand exactly when there's a very complex matter or a search or apprehending someone so that you might have a very strong case in a particular instance.
29:24But then, sometimes, something that the police do along the way kind of causes the case to fall apart and it's dismissed.
29:33So, we have that and the encounter that is training, right, training of the police officers and training will start from the time you enter into the police service at the training academy and ongoing training in the various sections, divisions, as the case may be.
29:51So, training, training, training, training, training, that will improve the quality of the work that we get.
30:00And in terms of training, in terms of proper investigation, we will have better quality matters coming before the court.
30:08Well, I'm certainly hope that, you know, those that are listening out there, because a lot of people always seek clarity on matters like this.
30:16They want to be able to understand their rights if they're so confronted by a police officer.
30:23If a police officer comes to your home to execute a search warrant or wants to question you in relation to a particular matter,
30:30at least you've made that quite clear in terms of what is required of the law and, of course, what is also required of the citizenry.
30:40All right. We're going to take a short break and we'll be back. Stay with us.
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33:25Welcome back to Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Mark Bassan, joined today by Ramde Ronal,
33:45Sukdeo Legal Officer, Master Court Prosecutor for the Southern Division.
33:49The Vision, and we're going to go to our favorite segment, Voice of the People with Stellan Arima.
33:56Let's take a look.
33:56What are you doing?
34:26Hi, good day.
34:27Just wanted to find out, what is your biggest concern about crime?
34:30My biggest concern about crime is, well, for the police and them turning up these streets,
34:38like, they run regular patrols around the areas, where they know the most likely to have crimes and stuff,
34:45and I believe that everything will be better after they do the most necessary stuff that we have to do.
34:52Right. Compared to last year, do you feel crime is a growing or a lessening problem?
34:57Well, compared is a difficult thing to say, but judging by the differences, yeah,
35:04the crime lessen in such a way, but you get the youths and them are second chance and stuff,
35:10and we still do the same thing. So we just have to pray for the better and keep the country strong
35:16that the crime will lessen every year.
35:18How has crime affected your daily life?
35:21My crime affected me mostly by my going house, like, if I want to reach this, like,
35:26oh, now, if I want to take a course or something, I don't worry, I don't watch my back,
35:30I don't watch how much money in my pocket, you know, so my going house kind of affected me in my going house,
35:35and better in myself.
35:37Do you feel safe in your home?
35:39Well, yes, most of the times. All the time, no matter of fact,
35:43it's better to be home than to be on the streets in a gang or something like that, right?
35:47Have you changed the ways you do things to avoid potentially dangerous situations?
35:52Yes. Like, for instance, like, if my mother said no somewhere, my father said no somewhere,
35:57I come straight back home, I stop in the line, oh, God, I don't talk with nobody.
36:01You alter your times, like, when you go to certain things?
36:05Yes.
36:05What do you think is the root cause of the high crime rate our country has been experiencing?
36:11The root cause of the high crime rate is that
36:14idolates on the streets, misagreements, like a lack of education, and one might say,
36:21if people spend their time with their parents, young ones spend their time with their parents learning,
36:27there's a less crime, nobody will be arrogant, they'll have a better understand on the streets.
36:32Are some people naturally bad, or does their upbringing environment lead them to commit crimes?
36:38Yes. Bringing the, bringing the environment lead them to crime, because I mean,
36:43to say if you take your time to do something worthwhile is less, you will have to think about crime.
36:50Right. So you believe that the environment that they grew up in is a contributory factor to, if they get involved in crime?
36:56Yes. But there's an environment that you involve yourself in.
37:01So, Mark, the caller, I'm sorry, the person there that you interviewed, he spoke about the regular patrols, which I, from my experience,
37:13know for a fact that that will in itself reduce crime, right? It's a proactive approach, the mere visibility of these police officers patrolling is a deterrent to crime.
37:27One of the main things that we focus on in the TTPs, right? To ensure that that patrol goes out, right? So he also spoke about, you know, you want to feel safe, right?
37:43So he said, he spoke of, you know, when he's at home, he feels safe, but when he goes out, you know, it's not the same.
38:05Yes. And that, that is exactly what is happening here. Your home and your house, you would feel safe, right? To a certain extent.
38:12Because you know criminal elements can come to your home also.
38:16Exactly.
38:17But in that, as a citizen, you want to have your free movement. You understand?
38:25So you want to walk the street, as he said, he would just go straight, get what you have to get, come back.
38:31You want to feel safe. You want to sit down by the, you know, by the side of the road, lie more to the friends, right?
38:38So you want that level of security, you know, and safety.
38:42Yeah, certainly it's important because, as you said, sometimes now people don't even feel safe in their homes.
38:49You know, we have had that upsurge of home envisions over the last year.
38:54Yes.
38:55Which is a growing concern. Of course, the government has not really spoken to things to combat that.
39:02One of which, of course, we know quite well, stand your ground legislation to be introduced in parliament.
39:07In the coming weeks, I suppose, it's going to be rather interesting, of course.
39:11And from a legal perspective, I know you'll be looking on.
39:14Yes, yes.
39:15All right, we're going to take a short break and we'll be back. Stay with us.
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41:19This event features some icons of the craft with info on how to become one yourself.
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41:35It's all next on CCN TV6, Sunday at 7.30pm.
41:39Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
41:51I'm your host, Mark Besson.
41:53Joined today by Inspector Ramdeh Ronald Sukdeh, the legal officer, master court prosecutor of the Southern Division.
42:01Educating us, of course, in various legal terms and things that happen that people need to be familiar with.
42:09And I think one of the most common things we see quite a lot here in Trinidad and Tobago,
42:14and we've seen it on social media, a number of people have captured images or videos rather of persons resisting arrest.
42:22Yes.
42:23So, that is something of concern, Mark.
42:28So, I want to explain something.
42:31So, an offence might happen outside there.
42:35Let's say, for example, I'm using one of the simplest offence, obscene language.
42:40Yes.
42:41So, the maximum for obscene language is, the maximum sentence is $200 and enter imprisonment for one month.
42:49So, yes.
42:50Simple imprisonment?
42:51Simple, well.
42:52Oh, just imprisonment.
42:53Imprisonment, it is, yeah, up to the discretion of the magistrate.
42:57Okay.
42:58To say whether it's simple imprisonment or harley.
43:01Well, in this essence, it's not a master.
43:03Well, for summary offences, it will be dealt with in the magistrate court.
43:07Okay, yes.
43:08Yes, it's a summary offence.
43:09Before magistrate.
43:10So, this person outside on the street, cussing, the police detected the offence.
43:18You can safely go before the court and the maximum you will get is $200 over one month.
43:26Right?
43:27That's the maximum.
43:28Yes.
43:29But when you resist arrest.
43:30Now, prior, there was an amendment, the miscellaneous provisions, 2019 amendment to the police service
43:37act.
43:38Section 59 of the police service act, prior to the amendment, resisting arrest was a summary offence.
43:44Now, with the amendment, it becomes an indictable matter.
43:49Now, when I say an indictable matter, this matter must be, this complaint must be laid before a master of the High Court.
43:57And the prosecution now will determine whether that matter is to be sent down to the magistrate court to be dealt with summarily.
44:08Or, we're going to keep that and send it to the High Court before judge and a jury.
44:14But, prior, it was only a summary offence.
44:19So, prior to the amendment, the fine was $10,000 and to imprisonment for two years.
44:25Right.
44:26So, where you could have gone before the court and get your maximum, I'm using it to a maximum, of $200, you resist the police.
44:35And now, with the amendment, the indictable, if tried indictably, the fine is $500,000 and to imprisonment for 15 years.
44:47And if tried summarily, $250,000 and to imprisonment for 10 years.
44:55That's the maximum.
44:56Right.
44:57So, whereas, you could have just take the arrest.
45:01So, you're saying to me, just to be, you're saying to me, if somebody uses obscene language against a police officer,
45:10and then resists arrest for that somewhat simple charge.
45:15Simple charge.
45:16Yes.
45:17You could end up in jail for 10 or 15 years.
45:19Yes.
45:20And I'm just using it to be the maximum.
45:22Correct.
45:23That is, I mean, I know there will be left up to the discretion of the magistrate.
45:27Yes.
45:28It will be lying on a number of factors.
45:29Of course, if this is a repeat offender.
45:30Yes.
45:31You know, what's the behavior like, et cetera, et cetera.
45:34Yeah.
45:35Clean records and stuff.
45:36Yes.
45:37And I'm using this example to show.
45:40Right.
45:41And then sometime when you're resisting arrest, you might end up with obstruction and assaulting a police officer.
45:48But this is what the end result of that.
45:51So, my advice to the people outside there, commit an offense, cooperate with the police.
45:58You don't want to fight up.
45:59You don't want to assault the police because you will end up with a serious charge.
46:03You talk about resisting arrest.
46:05So, just give us an idea, prior to the person being arrested, what's the procedure for effecting an arrest?
46:14Okay.
46:15So, the procedure for effecting an arrest, Mark, is the actual restraining of that person.
46:22And if necessary, and you have to actually hold that person and restrain that person.
46:27Now, sometimes you might be effecting an arrest and the person is willing to go with you.
46:32They cooperate.
46:33Yeah.
46:34So, the arrested person understands, hey, I committed an offense, the police told me that I'm under arrest, I will cooperate with the police.
46:47And then you would have the other set who will say, I ain't taking no lock-up.
46:50Right?
46:51So, from the time you tell them they're under arrest and you touch that person, they started to pull away.
46:56They started to pull away.
46:57Mm-hmm.
46:58And try to evade the police.
47:00That will constitute resisting arrest.
47:03Now, resisting arrest also be constituted as your verbal words saying, I ain't going no way.
47:09No, no.
47:10I ain't taking no lock-up.
47:11I ain't taking no lock-up.
47:12Oh, you mean you have to physically pull away.
47:13You have to physically pull away.
47:14I'm just asking for the public, of course, because I think we need clarity.
47:18So, by just saying, I ain't going no way, no.
47:20The police, when you pull on to that person and they start to pull away.
47:24They refuse to move from the position and go towards or move with the officers is a resisting arrest.
47:31It has to be more of a positive pull away to constitute the offense.
47:38Yes, yeah.
47:39Okay.
47:40That's interesting because I know everybody will have a different version of what they say the police claimed that I was resisting arrest.
47:48Yes.
47:49You know, sometimes there are people that would say, I wasn't resisting.
47:51Yes.
47:52I just didn't like the way they touched me.
47:54Yes.
47:55So, I know that's tricky.
47:56You just have to, you know, you have to surrender to the police then.
47:59You commit an offense, the police tell you you're under arrest, you need to surrender to the police.
48:03Now, this particular...
48:05Of course, and sorry to cut you across.
48:08Of course, if the police effect an unlawful arrest, you have your redress in a civil court.
48:14Alright.
48:15We have a caller on the line.
48:16Caller, good evening.
48:18Hello, good evening.
48:20Good evening, ma'am.
48:21Good evening.
48:22I just have a question for Infector City.
48:27Go ahead.
48:28I was just wondering, you know, in the age of social media and so forth, can a prison be arrested or if it's a charge or anything?
48:39The police arresting or locking somebody.
48:44Caller, I think your line is a little bit...
48:48You're coming on and off.
48:49I get a sense that you're talking about something that might have occurred on social media and what is the authority of the police.
48:57I'm not quite clear of the rest of the sentence.
49:00Alright, so it seems that, you know, the line was pretty bad.
49:06Yes.
49:07Caller, are you there?
49:08Are you able to hear me now?
49:11Yeah, go ahead.
49:12A little better, yes.
49:13You can start the question again.
49:15Right.
49:16So I was just wondering, you know, given the age of social media and everyone recording things on their phones, I was just wondering, can a person be arrested or is it a charge to videotape the police when they are locking up someone or if they are carrying out an arrest?
49:36Go ahead, Inspector.
49:38Very good question, Caller.
49:40And I must say, from my knowledge and understanding, Mark, there is nothing in the legislation to say that videotaping someone is an offence from my reading.
49:56However, if you are videotaping and you are actually obstructing the police in the execution of duty, of their duty, then you can be arrested.
50:05Right?
50:06So you are probably, the police effecting an arrest here and you way up in front and obstructing.
50:13Yeah, you must give them that personal space.
50:14Correct.
50:15Yeah, yeah.
50:16And actually obstructing, then you can be arrested for that.
50:19Alright, Caller, I hope that cleared up that question for you.
50:21We have another caller in the line.
50:23Caller, good evening.
50:24Good evening, Mark.
50:25Good evening, sir.
50:26Good afternoon to you, Officer.
50:27Good evening, sir.
50:28Officer, the jail and the financing that you now talk about, the certain crime.
50:33I wonder if you'll let this pass on that to the judges and the magistrates.
50:36Because I remember Martin Joseph, when he was the Minister of National Security, they had a marathon meeting until 2 o'clock in the morning in Parliament.
50:46Passing laws, there is the limit, there is the amount of jail if you get with an unlikely firearm to 10 years.
50:53Now that's more than 20 years ago.
50:55And up to now, nobody never makes no 10 years for a firearm.
50:59People shooting behind the police and they're making jail.
51:02People holding them with guns over and over and over, they're making jail.
51:07Gary Griffith was complaining when they hold a man with six air rifles in the trunk.
51:12And two days after, the man outside in the road.
51:15Have a blessed weekend, my brother.
51:18All right, Kuala, thanks for your contribution.
51:20And Inspector will respond after this short break.
51:23Stay with us.
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53:53And yourєcker pulls the list after the latest période alongside your Final level.
53:55I've run the best in the diffuse grades with the…?
54:00No.
54:02It runs at an annualized end.
54:04Well, this is classic basic ngode.
54:05Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 dollars in new
54:10money from Asателей Grandrika.
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54:12Myению is highlylassmen.
54:13Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 in fines and lose your license permanently.
54:27No? Then don't drink and drive.
54:30A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
54:43Welcome back to Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Marcus, and of course, joined today by Inspector Ramdeh Ronald Sukteh.
54:51He's a legal officer and master court prosecutor for the Southern Division.
54:55And I know that the caller had asked you a question before the break, and you're free to respond.
55:02So, and the caller raised the issue of, you know, the maximum sentence.
55:09Now, yes, there are sentencing principles that the judges, masters, magistrates of the case may be, must follow.
55:18An example of that is, you know, if you have a clean record, your previous convictions, right?
55:26But the thing is, here the law, you increase the penalty in law for a particular purpose, right?
55:33So, yes, you know, sometimes we have decisions that, you know, are a little lesser.
55:42We, the police, have the power.
55:45We, the police, have the power to appeal those sentences also.
55:50And let us say for a firearm offense with the new amendment, Act No. 18 of 2019,
55:59someone can get up to 20 years on indictment, right?
56:04So, yes, it helps.
56:07And at the same time, the judiciary has their part to play also in ensuring that, you know,
56:16Yeah, I know a lot of times, you know, they tend to blame the police when an offender is released back into the public.
56:24But, of course, as you said, it is also left up to the discretion of the court.
56:28Of the court.
56:29Depending on the, I would say, the criminal history of that person, whether or not they are able to be granted bail or not,
56:38if they are a recurring offender or repeated offender, sorry.
56:42Of course, certain things have to be taken into consideration, yeah?
56:45Yes.
56:46Because the only control we have over that is to appeal the sentence.
56:51But once a sentence is passed by a magistrate or a judge or a master, as the case may be,
57:00we cannot contest that at that stage.
57:02The most we can do is appeal the sentence.
57:06Okay.
57:06We have about 30 seconds left before.
57:09Inspector, we want to thank you for coming and anything you want to say in part of it?
57:11You're welcome.
57:12And so, Mark, today is a special day for you.
57:17Indeed it is.
57:18So, I know, I didn't want to mention it before because we would have been getting a set of calls during the program.
57:26So, I'll mention it now, Mark.
57:28Today is Mark's birthday.
57:29Today, so, on behalf of the TTPS, my colleagues, my family, I want to wish you a happy birthday, many more to come, and do enjoy the rest of your day.
57:44Thanks a lot for that, Inspector.
57:45Thanks again for coming, of course.
57:47Remember, repeat tonight at 11.30.
57:51No repeat tomorrow.
57:53I'm hoping to get chocolate cake from my producer after the show.
57:56I don't know if I will, but remember, the TV6 news is up next.
58:00Stay with us, and I'll see you on Monday.
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