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00:00:00This is a breakdown, like, if Casey Stengel and, you know, Tony La Russa had a love child,
00:00:06he ain't figuring it out if this is the group of players who have to figure it out.
00:00:10John, how about we talk Mets, Mets, and more Mets.
00:00:14Maybe I should do that 11 times as we're doing this.
00:00:17They have an 11-game losing streak.
00:00:19We're going to be joined by their former general manager and a guy who does their pre- and post
00:00:23-game show often now,
00:00:25and that's Jim Duquette.
00:00:26Yeah, the Mets are on a streak, and so are we.
00:00:28I think this is the second week in a row, at least, we've been talking about the Mets,
00:00:31and really there's no choice at this point because, really, it's shocking how bad they have been,
00:00:37and Jim Duquette's a good one.
00:00:38Thank you for getting him, and, you know, he was the GM the last time.
00:00:43They lost a whole bunch of games in a row.
00:00:45I think they lose 11 in a row in 2004.
00:00:49It's a long time ago, right?
00:00:51It's the last time they lost 11 in a row, and next game is key.
00:00:56If you're listening today on Tuesday, I can't lose 12 in a row because teams have lost 12 in a
00:01:02row.
00:01:03I've never made the playoffs.
00:01:03Not that I believe in that because, you know, times have changed.
00:01:07It's still possible, but obviously every game now is key for the Mets.
00:01:11Yeah, whatever it is, they're in a bad spot.
00:01:14We're going to talk all about that at the top of the show, John, myself.
00:01:19Then we're going to get Jim Duquette.
00:01:20We'll play hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and
00:01:24John Heyman.
00:01:29John, I almost don't know where to begin with the Mets.
00:01:33We are familiar with the last team that lost 11 in a row.
00:01:36That was the Mets.
00:01:37They were managed by Ard Howe in 2004.
00:01:39By the way, Ryan Weather's dad, David, was on that team.
00:01:42Two Hall of Famers, Tom Glavin and Mike Piazza, were on that team.
00:01:47And that team probably didn't have a lot of expectations.
00:01:49This one has a $380 million payroll, which means about another $120-ish in tax.
00:01:55So a half a billion all in and expectations, especially coming off a collapse.
00:02:00And so I almost wonder, John, if the place to start is, and you were in Chicago with the Mets
00:02:05and, of course, did excellent work.
00:02:06And you talked about Carlos Mendoza a lot, is his job in trouble and should it be in trouble?
00:02:14I think he better have a good homestand.
00:02:16The Mets better have a good homestand here.
00:02:19And to me, John, I'll just throw in my two cents very quickly.
00:02:23I'll add to it and let you jump in.
00:02:25This feels a lot more like his boss's fault than Carlos Mendoza's.
00:02:29You highlighted a lot of it in a column today where you pointed out the 11 things
00:02:34you thought kind of are going wrong right now.
00:02:37And a lot of that felt like David Stern's fingerprints and blueprint and not Carlos Mendoza.
00:02:42So, John, you were with the team.
00:02:44You think Mendoza's in trouble and you want to lay some blame somewhere.
00:02:50Yeah, I don't think he's in trouble today.
00:02:52I think he'll be at the park today as we do this.
00:02:55It's 11 in a row and depending on when people are listening to it.
00:02:59But, yeah, I mean, obviously it's not endless, you know, it's not unconditional.
00:03:05He's not going to keep it forever.
00:03:08But this is not his fault.
00:03:10And when I say that, you know, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have some part of the blame.
00:03:14Of course, you know, as he told me, I'm responsible.
00:03:18When I told him it's not your fault, he said, I'm responsible.
00:03:20Yeah, technically, officially, he is responsible.
00:03:24You know, in Chicago, they made a big deal out of the fact that they pitched to Nico Horner,
00:03:29who I think is the Cubs' best player.
00:03:32But, you know, either way, they were in trouble with a guy in third with one out.
00:03:36Yeah, I mean, you could quibble on that or you could question that.
00:03:39But that's not the reason they've lost 11 in a row and are outscored by 43 runs over 11 games.
00:03:44All of these moves, and admittedly, I liked some of them, they don't look good at this point, right?
00:03:53They don't look good.
00:03:55I know we're early in the season, and, you know, it's still possible to come back.
00:04:00And we know the 1951 Giants lost 11 in a row and came back and won the World Series.
00:04:05Of course, they did cheat to do so, as we've read in the Wall Street Journal, our sister paper.
00:04:13But, yeah, you're in trouble.
00:04:14If you're 7-15, you're in trouble, and these moves have not worked to this point.
00:04:19You know, John, just to put a finer point on what they're facing here in the short term,
00:04:24they play the next five series are against four teams.
00:04:28It's Minnesota, Colorado, Washington, Colorado again, and then the Angels.
00:04:33Right now, just as a sign, fan graphs, if you go to their projections,
00:04:37still picks the Mets to finish with a better record than those four teams.
00:04:40So that's what's ahead of them for the next 15 games.
00:04:44Nine of them are at Citi Field.
00:04:46You were just broke something exclusively that Juan Soto is going to be back for the Wednesday game from his
00:04:52calf injury.
00:04:53So they're getting their best player back.
00:04:55I mean, to me, this has to be at least a 10-5 period, if not better.
00:05:02Otherwise, you're in a real spin here.
00:05:05And I do think, John, that if this goes horribly, especially on the homestand before they go back out west,
00:05:13again, you point to â I was watching the game when Nico Horner was pitched to him.
00:05:18Like you mentioned, he's their best player.
00:05:19He's also their best contact guy.
00:05:20I think you've got to get to Michael Bush there to try to get a strikeout.
00:05:25But ultimately, you have the dying embers of Craig Kimbrell on the mound.
00:05:29You haven't scored any runs again.
00:05:31This is a breakdown like if Casey Stengel and, you know, Tony La Russa had a love child,
00:05:37he ain't figuring it out if this is the group of players who have to figure it out.
00:05:43Yeah, I mean, it didn't look â and I still caught 365.
00:05:46It depends how you count.
00:05:47And I still count the Dodgers as the top payroll.
00:05:50I'm not counting Otani as $2 million or whoever.
00:05:52They make the Dodgers less than the Mets.
00:05:54But in any case, they're one of the top two paid teams.
00:05:57It doesn't feel that way when you've got MJ Melendez batting fifth.
00:06:02You know, you've got Tommy Pham on the roster.
00:06:04You have Kimbrell out there in a key spot.
00:06:06And I love Kimbrell and Pham.
00:06:07They're two of my favorite guys I've ever covered.
00:06:09They're not in the middle of their fine careers at this point, right?
00:06:13It doesn't feel like they've got some great talent gap over other teams at this point,
00:06:20as the Dodgers do.
00:06:21You know, and obviously there have been some injuries, right?
00:06:24Soto has been out for this whole losing streak.
00:06:28Polanco is out for the last part of it.
00:06:30But the injuries are not going to be an excuse here when you've got this team
00:06:35that you spent $365 million for.
00:06:38Or, you know, as I said, these moves...
00:06:40I mean, John, they bemoaned losing Jared Young to injury.
00:06:44I mean, this is...
00:06:45You can't really be a $380 million, do you not,
00:06:48and complain to me that you lost Jared Young.
00:06:52Just, again, like I'll throw a...
00:06:54Well, I didn't hear that complaint, but that's not a good one.
00:06:56I'm going to go with you on that one.
00:06:58I mean, they've had a rotation of four first basemen.
00:07:01Obviously, they thought that Pete was a terrible first baseman.
00:07:03And I get it.
00:07:05It was an offensive player.
00:07:07He's actually defending okay in Baltimore.
00:07:10But, I mean, to me, Pete looks like a better first baseman
00:07:13than anybody we've seen so far.
00:07:15Now, I don't blame them.
00:07:16They're not a first baseman by trade.
00:07:18I know Viento started well at first.
00:07:21But, you know, I actually think Bichette's look pretty good at third
00:07:24from what I've seen.
00:07:25But first base has not been solved.
00:07:27They've got three guys playing out of position now.
00:07:30You know, I also don't think they put enough stock in reliability, right?
00:07:35Nimmo, at least the last few years, had played almost every game.
00:07:39Alonzo, nobody except for Matt Olsen plays as many games as he does.
00:07:44And they brought in Polanco, who's now on the IL.
00:07:49Luis Robert, who they have to treat with kid gloves.
00:07:52He's got load management going, right?
00:07:54And, frankly, as much as I love Bichette,
00:07:57he's had some injuries in his career, too.
00:07:59I don't know whether that doesn't count in the analytics.
00:08:02I would certainly think it does.
00:08:03But, you know, that's, to me, one of the biggest errors in this.
00:08:08I mean, we said at the beginning, we liked the individual moves,
00:08:10that this could go either way.
00:08:12And, unfortunately, it's going the wrong way right now.
00:08:14Yeah, it's a mosaic, and the mosaic is falling apart.
00:08:17You know, it's a bunch of these tiles that just haven't been put together well.
00:08:22John, look, I do think their defense is better,
00:08:24but they played two games in the offseason.
00:08:26They were trying to get better on defense, and they were worried about 2029.
00:08:31Like, you've got to, again, a $380 million payroll.
00:08:34A lot of worry has to be about 2026.
00:08:36And right now, I mean, I guess, you know,
00:08:38you can't say the best thing about your team is,
00:08:41wow, you know, the two highest-profile guys who left,
00:08:44you know, Pete Alonso's having a bad April,
00:08:46and Edwin Diaz just went for surgery.
00:08:48Like, that can't be the good news for you,
00:08:50that, like, wow, you know, point to that.
00:08:52The piece that we'll put here, and, you know, John,
00:08:55you alluded to this in your column today.
00:08:57I've alluded to it a few times.
00:08:59You know, when we talk about the tough transition to New York,
00:09:02we invoke the name Ed Whitson all the time.
00:09:05And I'm not exactly sure.
00:09:07Like, it feels to me like if you're a big position player
00:09:09and you come to New York,
00:09:11the Yankees do much better with that than the Mets.
00:09:13I mean, the Mets' history is George Foster and Jason Bay
00:09:16and Carlos Baerger and Roberto Alomar and Mo Vaughn
00:09:19and watching Mike Piazza get booed
00:09:20for the first two months of his career.
00:09:23And Lindor and Beltran are probably both of them.
00:09:25Beltran is a Hall of Famer.
00:09:26Lindor might be.
00:09:27Their first years were disasters here.
00:09:30Like, we're watching Bichette.
00:09:31I watched Bichette on one leg,
00:09:34having not played for six weeks,
00:09:36be able to hit the ball last year,
00:09:37playing out of position at second base.
00:09:39He comes here like this is one of the best contact hitters
00:09:43of the last 10, 15 years.
00:09:44He can't hit.
00:09:45He's striking out at a high level.
00:09:47I don't know what's in the water in Flushing.
00:09:50Yeah, there is a transition period.
00:09:52And I talked to David Stearns about this in Chicago,
00:09:55and he acknowledged that he understands that.
00:09:57He is a New Yorker.
00:09:58He understands that.
00:09:59He just believes that eventually they'll get accustomed to it.
00:10:03But, you know, here it's taking,
00:10:05it's only taking 22 games,
00:10:07but it feels like a lot.
00:10:08And it's certainly put them behind the eight ball,
00:10:11to use the cliche.
00:10:12He feels like they'll get accustomed to it.
00:10:14The problem for me with Bichette is that he's got a one-year opt-out.
00:10:17You know, I mean, Beltran, as you mentioned,
00:10:21Beltran and Lindor did not have a good first year in New York,
00:10:24and they are both Hall of Fame players.
00:10:28And, you know, if Bichette doesn't have a great year,
00:10:30but he could still, even in a bad year,
00:10:33he might hit, you know, 20 homers and have 80 RBIs and hit 275,
00:10:38and he'll still be able to opt out.
00:10:40So he gives the Mets the bad year.
00:10:42Then he jumps to Philly, where the rumor was he really wanted to go to Philly.
00:10:47I mean, to me, he should have gone to Philly.
00:10:48If that was true, go to Philly.
00:10:50But he hasn't said that.
00:10:52He's embraced New York.
00:10:54He's been fine here.
00:10:56He took the booze well, but he is not hitting like he should be hitting.
00:11:02So, yeah, I mean, the moves are not adding up correctly at all.
00:11:06You know, their defense is better, but their hitting is much worse.
00:11:09They're one of the worst hitting teams in baseball,
00:11:11if not the worst hitting team in baseball to this point.
00:11:15I mean, I don't know.
00:11:16Is that kind of a small market thing where you can save money by getting good
00:11:19defenders instead of â because offense costs more?
00:11:22It seems to me like that's a small market idea.
00:11:24Yeah, let's go on defense and get these great defenders,
00:11:27and they're cheaper, and we'll win that way.
00:11:30I don't know.
00:11:31But right now their offense is abysmal.
00:11:33Yeah, they're averaging the second-fewest runs in the major leagues.
00:11:35Only the Royals, who are really atrocious,
00:11:38as we just saw over the weekend against the Yankees, are worse.
00:11:43And, John, just look.
00:11:44We could highlight one move that kind of had everything in one.
00:11:47And, like, again, this was a â a lot of this is David Stern's belief system
00:11:53in how to do things, right?
00:11:55He was really worried about having Nimmo for five years.
00:11:58So he turned Nimmo for five years into Simeon for three,
00:12:03feeling like shorter term and also better on defense
00:12:07and open an outfield spot for Carson Bench.
00:12:09You know, his belief system.
00:12:10You've got to keep opening it for young players.
00:12:12And the Mets internally believe Bench was a top-ten prospect in the sport
00:12:17who was ready to handle this.
00:12:20And whatever offense Simeon didn't give them,
00:12:23Bench would compensate to some degree.
00:12:26Well, Bench and Simeon have both been really good on defense.
00:12:31I mean, I don't see Simeon having lost anything on defense.
00:12:34But, man, he's lost a ton on offense.
00:12:36Bench is a pretty good defender, especially great arm.
00:12:39But he could go get it.
00:12:40He's got speed.
00:12:41But he isn't hitting it all.
00:12:43They've got to make a serious thought, like, with Soto coming back,
00:12:46is Bench the move to send him down
00:12:49and try to get him going in the minor leagues.
00:12:52Because, like, that move just has a lot.
00:12:54And, by the way, the guy who's, like, hitting the best on the Rangers is Nimmo,
00:12:58who's broken out great.
00:12:59And, by the way, like, doing what he always does,
00:13:01which is play every inning of every game with all the worries about his knees.
00:13:04And I know I wouldn't have wanted to be into him for another five years either.
00:13:08But the Mets have to win in 2026.
00:13:11And every move, John, they've already released a guy they bought in the offseason in Luis Garcia.
00:13:17Right?
00:13:18Their desperation moves, as you pointed out, of Pham and Kimbrel, anybody who's covered,
00:13:22especially Tommy Pham, loves covering Tommy Pham.
00:13:24But it's been a long time since these guys were really top-notch players.
00:13:30John, I'll ask you a question about myself that I don't know why I thought this.
00:13:35In spring training, I thought depth was going to be one of their strengths.
00:13:39I picked them to win the division.
00:13:40I thought their farm system was deeper, their depth was better,
00:13:44and Steve Cohen's pockets were deeper.
00:13:45And that would get them to the top of the division.
00:13:48Three and a half weeks into the season, they don't feel deep.
00:13:52Like, I don't know what's happening.
00:13:53Like, too many guys not played well.
00:13:55What do you see?
00:13:56Yeah, no, I agree.
00:13:57And I had them winning the division, so that's, I don't know if I have to take a mea culpa
00:14:01at this point, but since we are critiquing Stearns, I'll critique myself.
00:14:06That wasn't good.
00:14:07It doesn't feel like their rotation depth, which I wrote a whole column about how great
00:14:12it was toward the end of spring training.
00:14:14It doesn't feel that's great at this moment, right?
00:14:16I mean, Peterson's already, you know, backed up an opener in one game.
00:14:21Senga's got an 883 ERA, you know, and right now, so far, Scott and Tong, now it's in Syracuse.
00:14:30I'm sure it's freezing.
00:14:31It's probably not great.
00:14:32You know, we're not going to critique them too much at this point, but they're not.
00:14:36Tong doesn't have the zero ERA that he had last year in AAA.
00:14:40They're not off to a great start.
00:14:42So the depth all over doesn't look great.
00:14:45You know, it does look like it's the moves.
00:14:48And you mentioned Nimmo and Simeon.
00:14:51I mean, you know, to say, well, we're only going to have Nimmo for five years versus Simeon.
00:14:55Well, Simeon's two years older than Nimmo, so it's pretty much a wash as far as I can tell,
00:15:00except for the fact that Simeon's making $25 million compared to Nimmo's $20 million.
00:15:06So I'm not sure how that behooved them at all, and they were anxious to do that move.
00:15:13And to me, Simeon, another terrific guy, and he's been, as you said, very good defensively,
00:15:20and their defense is better.
00:15:22But if your defense is 10% better and your offense is 40% worse, you're running at a deficit.
00:15:28And I think that's what we have generally seen so far.
00:15:31And again, it's these moves.
00:15:32And, you know, I really didn't get into, when you asked about Mendoza earlier, I mean, I agree.
00:15:38I think they're doing the right thing, giving him an opportunity here.
00:15:41Obviously, there is some point in which you're going to, you know, anybody's going to say,
00:15:46we're going to change.
00:15:47I hope that it's not tomorrow, the next day, or the day after that.
00:15:52But, you know, Joe Maddon was fired after 12.
00:15:55I mean, there's some point in which it's hard not to make a change.
00:16:00But I hope that isn't the case.
00:16:02I do think Mendoza is generally a good manager.
00:16:05He's terrific in the clubhouse.
00:16:07The players came rallying to his defense.
00:16:10We haven't always seen that.
00:16:12You know, Lindor said it's not on him.
00:16:14And I believe that he believes that.
00:16:16And I certainly believe it.
00:16:18The players have not played well.
00:16:19But that is, to me, the front office, not the manager.
00:16:24Yeah, there's a little, like, walking dead, though.
00:16:26The Mets in a daze.
00:16:27Like, they're not playing sharp.
00:16:28And I do put some of that on the manager.
00:16:30And I do think part of the problem, John, for Mendoza with the Mets and Joe Espada with
00:16:36the Astros is both of those teams collapsed last year.
00:16:39The Astros were up by seven games in mid-June.
00:16:41The Mets had the best record in baseball in mid-June.
00:16:44And both teams literally finished tied for the final wild card and missed out on a tiebreaker
00:16:49in both leagues.
00:16:50And I think those two guys, and probably Rob Thompson with the Phillies, are kind of,
00:16:55like, on the hot seat immediately.
00:16:56And I would say, right, Rob Thompson replaced Joe Girardi when they were eight games under
00:17:02.500 and rallied them to the World Series.
00:17:05Yeah, that's one of the all-time examples of the move really working, right?
00:17:08I mean, McKeon is the number one example where Jeff Torborg was managing them to Nowheresville.
00:17:13And they ended up winning the World Series under McKeon.
00:17:15But certainly Rob Thompson had that great first year.
00:17:19And, I mean, Mendoza had a great first year.
00:17:21Well, Bob, the point I was just not.
00:17:23You know, I think Houston's had a ton of injuries.
00:17:26So to me, I, you know, to me, that one's really not fair.
00:17:30In this case, I think the front office is to blame at this moment with the Mets.
00:17:35And David Stearns isn't getting fired.
00:17:37So that's, you know, that's not happening.
00:17:39You know, to me, if I had to pick one, I think, you know, at some point, the Phillies have
00:17:44kind of underachieved, certainly when it counts in October and, you know, otherwise in the
00:17:51last few years.
00:17:52And they have also spent a ton of money and seem to have the players that should be better
00:17:57than this.
00:17:58Yeah, well, the point I was going to make was Thompson.
00:18:01I've seen Thompson rally a team that was eight games under .500, 50 in the season.
00:18:04And Joe Espada's first season as the manager in Houston, they were 12-24 and they rallied
00:18:09and won the division, which is also the same year that Mendoza was a manager.
00:18:14And they were 11 under .500 at the beginning of June and they rallied to the NLCS.
00:18:18So the point I wanted to make was that it looks dire.
00:18:23And I'm not sure I believe in any of those three teams, notably the Mets, who we are around
00:18:28constantly.
00:18:29But there is a long season, so at least let's play the game of if this got better, why did
00:18:36it get better?
00:18:37And I think this is largely on four guys now.
00:18:44Like Lindor and Bichette have to be way better.
00:18:48They like just have to be like, I'm assuming Soto's going to come back and be Soto.
00:18:52I think Soto's one of those, you know, Ted Williams wake up in the middle of January and hit a
00:18:57line
00:18:57drive or at least take ball four outside someplace, right?
00:19:00So to make the lineup long in some way, Lindor and Bichette have to hit.
00:19:04I don't know what's going on with Lindor.
00:19:06Like he's like on 51st dates with Adam Sandler.
00:19:10He seems to forget how to play baseball every day now.
00:19:13I don't know what's going on there.
00:19:15I think there's some pressure on Freddie Peralta to join McLean and Holmes, especially McLean
00:19:21as like a real top of the rotation guy, like, and at least protect the bottom of that rotation
00:19:26by having three guys go around really well.
00:19:29And then like Devin Williams has got to close these games.
00:19:33Like when they, like when it's fragile, these are the important things.
00:19:36Don't tell me about the three you rattled off in like good times with a three run lead.
00:19:41You've got to close that a one nothing game the other day and you don't.
00:19:45And to me, like those are four high priced guys, big deals to bring them in and they've
00:19:53got to perform so that the Mets, who we thought were deep, at least get the stars at the top
00:19:59performing and make it easier for everyone else.
00:20:02Yeah.
00:20:03Well, I already covered Bichette and, you know, Lindor is the one that's really perplexing,
00:20:07right?
00:20:08I mean, he's been, other than that first year, which we referenced, he's been really good
00:20:11in New York.
00:20:12I, I'm not sure what's going on with him because we haven't seen these kinds of mental
00:20:16errors, certainly from a guy who's on his way to the hall of fame or anyone who's on
00:20:20his way to the hall of fame.
00:20:22It's forgot the number of outs, forgot the count here in Chicago.
00:20:26He's made an inordinate number of mental mistakes, which we never saw from him before.
00:20:33So I, I'm not sure what he's, what's going on with him, whether that captain thing is on
00:20:38his mind.
00:20:38I don't know.
00:20:39Uh, he may not even know, but, uh, certainly he's got to be better.
00:20:44Who's been as good as you'd expect them to be right now.
00:20:47Holmes lane and homes homes, McLean.
00:20:50I probably Alvarez has right.
00:20:52Uh, I mean, I don't expect them to be a very good defensive catcher and he hasn't been
00:20:56has been okay.
00:20:58Right.
00:20:59Like a little better than okay.
00:21:01Louis Robert jr.
00:21:02Has been, he's been okay.
00:21:04Yeah.
00:21:05You know, but it's like, we're talking about like, like top, like we thought the top of
00:21:09this lineup, you know, if you want to throw a Polanco in that the top four guys in the
00:21:13lineup, you and I had a discussion.
00:21:14If you remember about the length of lineups in New York and you were very strongly like
00:21:19the Mets aren't as good as the Yankees.
00:21:21And I was like, yeah, but I think they'll score a lot because the top four guys in their
00:21:26lineup will produce a lot of runs.
00:21:28Well, Soto was great until he got hurt.
00:21:30The other three guys have been bad and the Mets just can't be dancing with the Royals in
00:21:3529th and 30th and runs per game.
00:21:38And so I just like Lindor and Bichette are special players and they just not approach that.
00:21:44It's only a little about 12% of the season, whatever we are right now, but it's not going
00:21:50to work if these top level guys, because again, John, my mistake, my mistake was thinking
00:21:55that they were really deep and they might not be really deep.
00:22:00And if they're not really deep, that just puts a greater burden on these really top
00:22:04players.
00:22:05Right.
00:22:05Well, we got to expect that New York is going to be good at some point here, right?
00:22:08I mean, he has been good in New York for the last several years.
00:22:12And I think Bichette will start playing better.
00:22:15He has been, I thought, pretty good at third base.
00:22:17I mean, there aren't many positives.
00:22:20He looked pretty good at third base in Chicago.
00:22:22At least I was there for the three games.
00:22:24So yeah, I mean, they're going to be better.
00:22:28Yeah.
00:22:28For Mendoza's sake, it needs to be soon.
00:22:30You are right.
00:22:31Now they've got Soto back tomorrow.
00:22:33At least that's the plan.
00:22:34And you've got twins who are average at best probably.
00:22:38And then you've got the Nats and the Rockies who are well below average, although the Nats
00:22:43have outplayed Mets to this point.
00:22:44You know, I don't often agree with fangrass, but I do think at this point, the odds are
00:22:49the Mets will have a better record than all three of them.
00:22:52But they need to start pretty soon.
00:22:55You know, I'm probably not as optimistic as you that the 10 and 5 is over the next 15
00:23:01is very likely.
00:23:02Well, I didn't say I'm predicting it.
00:23:04Over the last 11.
00:23:05So, you know, they need wins.
00:23:07They probably need to win one of the next few games, too, to make sure that we don't
00:23:12have to have a manager situation on our hands.
00:23:15And we shouldn't.
00:23:17I really, I'm hearing you what you said about they haven't been particularly alert.
00:23:23But I think by and large, I think Mendoza is a good manager.
00:23:27I think he's going to be good in the long run.
00:23:30And I think it would be a shame to lose him.
00:23:34Yeah, I agree with all that.
00:23:35And I just want to be clear.
00:23:35I didn't predict they go 10 and 5.
00:23:37I said, I think they need to go 10 and 5 to kind of work.
00:23:40Yeah, I think they'll, I think 9 and 6 is still a big improvement over 11.
00:23:44Well, 1 in 10 would be an improvement, John.
00:23:47Or 11 in the 11 before us.
00:23:49I think it's an improvement.
00:23:51But at that point, I think that at that point, they'll change managers.
00:23:54Yeah.
00:23:55If they double it up to 1 in 20, if they go 1 in 21, you're predicting that they'll probably
00:24:00That's my prediction.
00:24:00I'm going to go out on a limb if they ever want to.
00:24:02Do a different prediction, John, is do you think, like, over the net, by Memorial Day,
00:24:09do you think that they've kind of righted this and they're kind of at least near 500-ish
00:24:14and in play for something?
00:24:16Yeah, I think they could be near 500 by Memorial Day.
00:24:19And that might put them in play.
00:24:21The division isn't great, right?
00:24:23Atlanta's been the best team and they've got a lot of issues.
00:24:26I mean, they're lucky they're not in the NL Central.
00:24:27All those teams look a lot better than that right now.
00:24:30But it's six teams make the playoffs.
00:24:32I mean, if you're 500-ish, as we learned last year, if they could have gotten an 84th win,
00:24:37they would have made it.
00:24:38Yeah, I'm not counting them out.
00:24:39I don't think the season's over today at 7-15.
00:24:43And I know that it says that 11 in a row, there have only been three teams that have
00:24:47made it and 12 losses in a row, nobody's ever made it.
00:24:51I don't think that history means that much.
00:24:53I mean, now we have six teams making the playoffs, right?
00:24:58So, you know, and there aren't that many teams that lose 12 in a row.
00:25:02And I know I've seen stats that say if teams that have lost 11 in a row and fail to
00:25:07score
00:25:0720 runs in those 11 games, the best record was the St. Louis Browns, 65-74.
00:25:13That doesn't mean they're going to be 65-74.
00:25:16You know, they could be the one to do it.
00:25:18But they certainly have the talent, you get Soto back, you get Polanco back, you know,
00:25:24you may fix that rotation a little bit, maybe if you need to.
00:25:28I do think they should have depth, right?
00:25:30Scott and Tom should be candidates to come up and help at some point.
00:25:34So, yeah, I'm not counting them out at this point.
00:25:37But right now, it looks bad.
00:25:39And my three points are it looks bad, which everybody knows.
00:25:43It's not Mendoza's fault, at least largely.
00:25:45And the front office looks like it's taking the collar right now.
00:25:49And it's not good either, because the previous year, they signed Bontas, they gave Mania all
00:25:54that money, Winker.
00:25:56There were others that I'm not thinking of right now.
00:25:59So their contracts have not been great.
00:26:03Their decisions have not been great in the last two years.
00:26:05No, not good at all, John.
00:26:07And I'm with you.
00:26:08I throw away all that historic stuff.
00:26:09All that historic stuff, A, doesn't have six teams in each league making the playoffs.
00:26:13Because of that, it means that you're not going to give up in a way.
00:26:19And with Cohn's money and a farm system, these Mets aren't going to give up either.
00:26:25And I think, look, if I thought it was a 10% to 12% chance of an implosion when
00:26:30the season
00:26:30began, I'm certainly up over 30% now that this could go horribly wrong.
00:26:35It still means I'm over 50% that I think that they can right this.
00:26:39But I do think it's on those bigger guys.
00:26:44And if the Mets do anything else, for Stern's batting average to get a lot better, like Beau
00:26:48Pichette and David Stern's both need better batting averages right now for this to get
00:26:53better because it hasn't been good.
00:26:56Somebody who sat in that chair and is a friend of this show is Jim Duquette, who's on Sirius
00:27:02Radio and SNY now.
00:27:03He'll be joining us next on the show.
00:27:10One of the favorites of mine, of John, of this show is Jim Duquette, former general manager
00:27:17of the Mets, former general manager of the Orioles on Sirius XM Sunday to Friday, 10 a.m.
00:27:24to 1 p.m., doing Mets in pregame and postgame on SNY about 30 times a year.
00:27:31Jim, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
00:27:33How are we doing, guys?
00:27:34Thanks for having me.
00:27:36Jim, you seem like such an obvious person to have, and we'll get to it.
00:27:40I mean, you were the GM the last time the Mets lost 11 games in a row in 2004.
00:27:46And we'll certainly talk about the experience a little.
00:27:48But I almost wonder if there's a big question to be asked here.
00:27:51And that big question is, is there something about this franchise that makes it hard to
00:27:55get it right?
00:27:57Like a lot of different people spending a lot of money, bringing in a lot of star level
00:28:02players for a long time to try to create consistent excellence, have come and gone.
00:28:07And it's felt like something was on the right track until about two and a half months into
00:28:14last season.
00:28:15And then all of a sudden, it feels like same old Mets again.
00:28:18And I just wonder, is there some reason you work there for a long time?
00:28:23You cover it all the time now.
00:28:25Why can this organization not get it right?
00:28:28I know.
00:28:29It is unbelievable.
00:28:30And it's become, you know, it's like any time it starts to go south and you see it,
00:28:35whether it's injury, whether it's underperformance, whether it's not being able to handle New York,
00:28:40it's just, it's like this, it's so Mets, you know, it's almost become predictable, you know?
00:28:44And I wish I had an answer to it.
00:28:46You know, I think when I was there, you know, there was a lot of attention early before the
00:28:52Wolpons took over of the conflict between the two owners, between Doubleday and Wolpon.
00:28:57And then it was, a lot of blame was put on the Wolpons in general, right?
00:29:01And then, you know, maybe there was a stretch where, you know, there was, you know, the payroll,
00:29:06the kind of pressure that they were feeling because of what went on with Madoff,
00:29:10that maybe there was some effect there with the payroll.
00:29:13But then as, you know, you get into the ownership with the Cohen group,
00:29:16like there's no real common theme.
00:29:18You know, there's been a lot of turnover in the general managers over the last five or six years.
00:29:22Like there's been four different guys running their baseball operations department,
00:29:25which I would think, you know, that continuity, when you guys look around the game and in the league,
00:29:32you know, the good organizations have consistency in that front office year in and year out,
00:29:38not only in the front office, but usually with the manager too.
00:29:42So, you know, there's always more than one answer.
00:29:46I wish there was a common theme, but man, oh man, it's frustrating, you know, for all of us,
00:29:51when we watch this team, there's a good thing in New York when both the Mets
00:29:55and the Yankees are playing well.
00:29:57And when one of them's not, more specifically, when it's not been,
00:30:00it's been the Mets more times than not, it's not a lot of fun to enjoy the summer
00:30:06watching baseball that way.
00:30:08I like that analysis.
00:30:09I hadn't thought of it that way before you in that chair.
00:30:11You obviously had certainly the owners.
00:30:14There was a conflict, certainly with Doubleday and Wilpon and certainly Madoff.
00:30:19And I put it a little, you're very kind, you put it nicely.
00:30:21What went on with Madoff, he's the biggest crook in the history of the United States.
00:30:25And certainly limited what they could spend.
00:30:28Let me ask you, I don't know if it's a simpler question, but a different question.
00:30:31Is this team playing its way out of it?
00:30:33Or what are their chances of actually making the playoffs at this point?
00:30:37They're 7-15.
00:30:39I mean, history will tell you there aren't that many teams that lose 11 in a row.
00:30:42Blah, blah, blah.
00:30:43I don't know how much that matters.
00:30:44But you've looked at these 22 games.
00:30:47Can this team turn it around?
00:30:49Yeah, I think that might be the most difficult question of all.
00:30:53Well, I mean, no, but honestly, I do think that, you know, we always felt this way.
00:30:58And I think over time when we've seen enough baseball in our careers where you can't win
00:31:02the, you know, the division in April, but you can lose it applies many times.
00:31:08And, you know, when you get to be, you know, this far under 500, it's just about winning
00:31:13today's game, winning the next game, trying to put a streak together.
00:31:15Like, you know, I'll go back to the Guardians just last year.
00:31:18You have to go through some of these historical, you know, moments to say, well, it can happen.
00:31:26But you, you know, like you're playing the odds a lot of times and it doesn't look good.
00:31:29I mean, the Guardians were, I think they were last year, 14 and a half under, or 14 and a
00:31:34half games back of the Tigers.
00:31:36They did have a 10 game losing streak.
00:31:38That happened at the end of June into July of last year.
00:31:41And then they were really at 500 at the end of August, and then they had an excellent
00:31:46September and Detroit had a collapse and they ended up winning 88 games, won the division
00:31:50by, I think, one game.
00:31:52So it has happened, but it doesn't, you know, happen very often.
00:31:57As you guys know, you lose 11 games, 10, 11 games in a row.
00:32:01I think it was three times that teams have won the division since 1969, something along
00:32:06those lines.
00:32:07It's never been the Mets.
00:32:08Mets have never lost this many games in April.
00:32:10So statistically, and the odds are not really good, but I keep coming back to, this is a
00:32:18talented team that hasn't gotten off on the right foot yet.
00:32:22And that's kind of where I look and tend to fall is there's so much time left that I feel
00:32:28like they can, they can come out of this, but man, it feels like they need to do it soon.
00:32:32You know, Jim, you sat in the, you sat in the side chair to Steve Phillips, you sat in
00:32:37the chair so you know what the decision-making process looked like in this, in this market.
00:32:42David Stearns came here rightfully with a great reputation and year one went pretty swimmingly
00:32:49as far as the secondary moves he made all working out.
00:32:52Now, is there firstly, secondly, thirdly, they're all not working out.
00:32:58Uh, and there's been a lot of them, uh, what, what do you, this is a pretty creative, pretty
00:33:05smart guy who suddenly has Steve Cohen's money, not Milwaukee money.
00:33:08Why, why is this going wrong?
00:33:10You know, to your point too, Joel, if you go back to the halfway point at the debt, well,
00:33:15that beyond that, the deadline last year.
00:33:17And if you look at the moves that, that were made, um, I think there was a combination of
00:33:23a number of them that didn't go well, right?
00:33:25Two relievers, a center fielder, those, neither one of those worked out.
00:33:29Rogers was a good fit.
00:33:31The others didn't work out very well.
00:33:33Uh, so I think that, you know, and, and I feel like, you know, they, and he, you know,
00:33:38David, because he's at the head of it, but they underestimated the need for a starting
00:33:42pitcher.
00:33:42He even said after the season was over that maybe there wasn't a sense of urgency there.
00:33:46And I would have to sit there with the ability of hindsight, but I even first guessed it
00:33:50like they needed a starting pitcher and maybe two last year.
00:33:53So there is a, I think maybe an error in the self-evaluation there.
00:33:57You know, I don't know how to quite assess it for this year yet.
00:34:01Other than I can't think of another team, you know, and I talked to a lot of GMs currently
00:34:06you guys do too.
00:34:08Uh, if you go back and try to think in your, in your mind of what, how many teams, when
00:34:14you missed a game, missed the post-season by a game and you had that much turnover in
00:34:18your roster, key players, guys who you knew could play in New York guys, and you bring
00:34:24in guys, you don't, you have no idea where they're going to handle it.
00:34:26How does that all gel?
00:34:27How does it gel when you have all these new positions that, you know, guys are trying
00:34:32to figure out and learn and does that impact your offense?
00:34:35Which I think it's to some degree, it has impacted their offense, learning these new defensive
00:34:39positions.
00:34:40So it's, and then you bring on a whole new coaching staff.
00:34:42I know when we had coaches, new coaches, it took a while to gain the confidence of the
00:34:49player.
00:34:50If they were struggling, that player wasn't going to the coach, you know, Hey, you don't
00:34:53know me that well.
00:34:54I'm going to figure it out on my own, on my own.
00:34:56Like there's so many different layers that are new to the team right now that, um, I don't
00:35:03know how to put a finger on what is gone wrong with it at the moment.
00:35:06I mean, the obvious, obvious answer is the offense, but you know, there's a lot there,
00:35:10um, that I think we still have to give a little bit of time, but again, you know, you feel
00:35:17like you're running out of time already.
00:35:18We're not even in May.
00:35:19You talked about the adjustment to New York, Joel, and I discussed it when we were alone
00:35:23on this podcast and obviously Lindor and Beltran and other big time players, even players
00:35:29on the way to the hall of fame as those two are, uh, really did have a problem adjusting
00:35:34to New York and obviously we have four new position players, uh, none of them off to
00:35:39a great start.
00:35:40I mean, I guess Robert's doing about what you'd expect, but generally the other three
00:35:43doing below, how big have you found that adjustment to be?
00:35:48Have you seen it from everybody and why does it seem to be bigger in Queens than it is in
00:35:52the Bronx?
00:35:52I mean, Bellinger got better.
00:35:54Soto got better.
00:35:55Uh, why doesn't anyone get better in Queens?
00:35:57It's a great, it's a great question.
00:35:59I, you know, I think with just speaking from what I know, you know, I, I think in New
00:36:04York, certainly, um, not everybody can handle it.
00:36:08Right.
00:36:08We've seen that there's countless, I've got a countless number of players that haven't
00:36:12been able to handle it.
00:36:13Usually, um, you know, with, with the Mets side of things, you know, you don't have that
00:36:18aura of the Yankees, that high expectation of getting the world series.
00:36:21You would think, you know, intuitively there'd be less pressure in Queens, but yet you still
00:36:27see, and I think part of that is, you know, not, not picking the right players over, over
00:36:31a period of time this year, I think it's way too early to make that assessment, but I think
00:36:35it is fair that we've seen, uh, players, you know, that come into New York and it's, it
00:36:40happened, it's happened there in, in, in, uh, Flushing where, you know, that, that, you
00:36:45know, again, it's fair to ask, are they, you know, the, you mentioned Lindor Beltran, Beltran
00:36:50had almost a full year.
00:36:51You go back to that 2005 season, you know, and, and we didn't have a great team that year,
00:36:57but at least we had spent some money.
00:36:58We were over 500 and on the rise, you know, Lindor had it in that first year and then
00:37:02he figured it out.
00:37:03But, um, you know, I think it's fair to look at it with Bichette, you would think he'd be
00:37:08able to handle it.
00:37:09Uh, you know, just his dad being in the game the way he is, he's been around the game this
00:37:14whole life.
00:37:15Uh, Polanco is a long time veteran.
00:37:17You would think he'd be able to handle it.
00:37:19So, you know, at least with those two guys, um, I, I, there, there should be better days
00:37:24and I shouldn't, we shouldn't be sitting here being worried about it yet.
00:37:28We still are.
00:37:28You know, Jim, I think the easiest thing in the world, uh, to do.
00:37:31And I think unfortunately in too many forums now, we just fire people, uh, like, uh, as
00:37:37if that will be some magic, uh, potion, uh, to do it as somebody who had to sit and decide
00:37:43whether to do it or not when things are going wrong in season, look, there's just not a lot
00:37:49of moves.
00:37:49You can't change your roster a lot.
00:37:51Uh, you're not going to fire yourself.
00:37:54You're hoping the owner doesn't fire you.
00:37:56Like, is there something to be said?
00:37:59Is it ever a defibrillator?
00:38:01And should Carl's Mendoza's job, he didn't put this roster together, but ultimately there
00:38:07isn't a lot of other things to do.
00:38:10If this continues, if you're looking for a way to see if there's shock treatment to get
00:38:14them back online, what, what do you think?
00:38:16Do you, do you think that works or is worth thinking about?
00:38:20I mean, I, I've seen, I would question it when it comes to coaches.
00:38:24I've done it fired.
00:38:27Well, the most, the infamous, you know, years when we fired Bobby V's hitting coach and pitching
00:38:32coach and all of that, the reaction out of that.
00:38:34I mean, it worked.
00:38:35We'll call it, we'll put it in quotations.
00:38:37I mean, we played a lot better.
00:38:38I don't think that was the reason why we turned things around and ended up going to the
00:38:42world series that year in 2000, but it, it ended up, you could sit there and say, oh
00:38:47yeah, it worked.
00:38:48But I think for the most part, if you're firing coaches and by the way, they are all brand
00:38:52new coaches.
00:38:53So what did they do good or bad for that?
00:38:56I'm talking manager though here.
00:38:58Right.
00:38:59So I'm just thinking, I'm just staying with the coaches because that's normally the way
00:39:02you do it.
00:39:02You can't do it with the coaches right now.
00:39:04It wouldn't be fair.
00:39:04So now you're talking about the manager and you know, the, the one that happened last
00:39:08year with the Orioles and Brandon Hyde, that was, that happened on May 17th.
00:39:13They were 14 games under.
00:39:15And they felt like they needed to make a change because he had no other choices.
00:39:18He had done the same thing that David Stearns did this year.
00:39:22The previous year, Mike Goliath fired all of his coaches, let them all go, kept the manager.
00:39:26And then middle of May, he's getting rid of the manager.
00:39:29Uh, I think right now there's, there's nothing that he has done or could do that would change
00:39:34where they are.
00:39:36But if this continues, I don't think you have a choice, you know, and I, I don't like calling
00:39:40for, uh, anyone's being fired, you know, whether it's general manager or manager, but
00:39:45to your point, like the GM, isn't going to, uh, fire himself.
00:39:49The owner might go and do it.
00:39:50But I think in, in the end, what you have to kind of hang your hat on is with the
00:39:54Mets
00:39:55in 2024, that, that year when they had, you know, JD Martinez and Jose Iglesias, they
00:40:02were, I think 12 under, I believe, or 13 under 11 was the worst of it.
00:40:0711 was worse.
00:40:08Okay.
00:40:08So that was, you know, that you've done it in your own organization.
00:40:11It happened on David Stearns watch.
00:40:13It was a, we're going to be patient for a little while longer and it worked out.
00:40:18So, you know, I, I don't know in the end if that's what they're going to do, but I think
00:40:22it'd be really, really hard to make a, a managerial move.
00:40:26Um, and if they did, what I think would be fascinating is do they go with the new guy
00:40:32in the bench coach or do they bring the guy that's down in the front office that had a
00:40:36chance to manage it, you know, before and Carlos Beltran and see what that looks like.
00:40:40I don't know the answer to that, but I think right now that, that is too soon to really
00:40:45make that call.
00:40:46Uh, you know, what struck me in the, in the off season was the, all the talk about run
00:40:51prevention and the defense is 10% better in my estimation.
00:40:55And the offense is about 40% worse.
00:40:57I didn't get it.
00:40:59I didn't go to Harvard like he did.
00:41:01I didn't understand why run prevention was more important than, than run production.
00:41:05I, to me, that's like a small market thing where you can get defenders for less money,
00:41:10uh, than, than offense.
00:41:12The big, big time bats cost more money.
00:41:14I I'm not sure.
00:41:15I'm just speculating on that.
00:41:16Um, what are you, what are your thoughts on that run prevention versus a run production?
00:41:21Cause they, they do look like a worse offense and, and Bichette's going to be better.
00:41:26And Lindor is better and they'll get Soto back.
00:41:29But, uh, right now they don't look like a, they're the second worst offensive team in
00:41:33baseball at this moment.
00:41:34That's pretty bad.
00:41:35Yeah, it is pretty bad.
00:41:37By the way, uh, you went to the Harvard of the Midwest, uh, Northwestern, but, um, thank
00:41:42you.
00:41:43Cause your daughter did.
00:41:43I know it's like my daughter, like, like your daughter, but no, I think with, um, I
00:41:49think it's a really good and fair analysis to sit there and say, okay, at what cost did
00:41:56they go down this road and work towards run prevention at the expense of, uh, run production.
00:42:03And, you know, there's no question when you look at last year's team, cause that's what
00:42:08you're kind of basic, what he was basing his decisions off of.
00:42:12They were below average in four, at least four different positions on the field to flip
00:42:17that over overnight is really hard to do, but I think there's somewhere along the line,
00:42:22there's, there's a balance, right.
00:42:23And part of that is an athleticism to your team, to your roster, which they didn't have
00:42:28either.
00:42:28So I think, I think that, you know, it's a fair critique going at and looking at it last
00:42:32year, but I also didn't think they had enough pitching starting pitching in particular, you
00:42:37know, and so, you know, somewhere along the line, there's a combination.
00:42:41And I think any of the good teams that we've watched in the post season, we've been doing
00:42:44it forever.
00:42:45And I've been in the post season the last 15 years.
00:42:48There's a balance on, on, on these teams that end up at the world series at the end,
00:42:52you got to have good offense.
00:42:53You got to have good starting pitching, good defense, generally good bullpen.
00:42:57Um, it's not always, uh, you know, the case with, with those teams, but for the most part,
00:43:02we're talking about, um, that's, that's how it has gone.
00:43:05And, you know, I think they went a little too far, um, on the, at least right now, anyway,
00:43:10on the run prevention without, uh, having enough of the, of the production.
00:43:16And, you know, that right now, if you look at the team, even if they start to hit the way
00:43:22you expect, they're devoid of power that around the game, there are a ton of teams that, you
00:43:29know, live in, not necessarily live and die on it, but can hit a two or three run home
00:43:35run and change things and score quickly.
00:43:38That's the way the sport has really turned over in the last dozen years or so.
00:43:42And I don't think the Mets really have anywhere near the power that some of the better teams
00:43:46that I've been watching have.
00:43:48Yeah.
00:43:48You know, some of the teams that are really struggling early this year, Jim, uh,
00:43:51the, the Mets, the Blue Jays and the Red Sox stand out as they don't hit the ball over
00:43:55the fence.
00:43:56Uh, the Mets and Red Sox in particular stand out to me as like teams that have spent a
00:44:00lot of money on payroll and somehow can't get the ball over the fence with any consistency
00:44:04whatsoever.
00:44:06Uh, Jim, just as somebody who again, uh, sits in that chair, uh, Soto's coming back.
00:44:13Um, Melendez is hit.
00:44:15You don't have a lot of right-hand hitters.
00:44:17We have fam.
00:44:17Um, I think Carson Bench has to be in play for being sent down here.
00:44:22Uh, when, when, uh, Soto returns, can you take us through like that decision?
00:44:27Like what's enough time to know, uh, Hey, he might be underwater.
00:44:33We got to get him out or we think he's a tough enough kid.
00:44:36He'll work through this.
00:44:37We believe in the town.
00:44:38Cause again, this is, if they pull the plug on that, they've already pulled the plug on
00:44:41Luis Garcia who cost them a buck 75, right?
00:44:45Uh, like, like how many of your off season plans are you out of already?
00:44:48It, but, and it isn't even May 1st, if that's the way they're spinning here.
00:44:52Right.
00:44:52Right.
00:44:53Well, and, and I think what's even, uh, additionally alarming is you didn't really
00:44:58have, you know, a Melendez has been kind of a, all right, break glass in an emergency
00:45:03type situation.
00:45:03So far it's looked pretty good.
00:45:05He's had trouble in his career with breaking balls.
00:45:07So we'll see when that, you know, when they start throwing breaking balls at him, but
00:45:10getting back to bench for a second, you know, what really, um, concerned me prior to spring
00:45:16training was I thought his swing looked a little long to me and during spring training, it looked
00:45:20really good.
00:45:21It looked like he was hitting the ball well the other way.
00:45:22He was using the whole field.
00:45:23He was a, a young hitter that was, was, I thought somebody that you can eventually he'll
00:45:29have power.
00:45:30And all of a sudden there's something flipped towards the end and beginning of the season
00:45:34where he became very pull conscious.
00:45:35He hit the home run on opening day.
00:45:37It was on a slider.
00:45:38So the question was, well, was, was that slider bat speed or was he too pull conscious?
00:45:44What, what's the evaluation?
00:45:45I don't know the answer to it, but I know what the results have been here so far.
00:45:49And, you know, it looked to me like, okay, they were willing to give him a little more,
00:45:54uh, runway.
00:45:55What now that Soto is out, but it wouldn't hurt to have a reset.
00:46:00We all know a ton of guys who have gone to the minor leagues for a period of time, gotten
00:46:04themselves back on track and then brought, been brought up and then they're, they're
00:46:07on their way.
00:46:08So I think there's gotta be more of an urgency on that to re-examine it.
00:46:13Um, and I also think they gotta re-examine how the rotation looks with the struggles in
00:46:18the fourth and fifth spot.
00:46:19There's only so much longer.
00:46:21You can afford to go down that road and continue to get these lack of results and think that
00:46:27it's going to change.
00:46:28So I think going back to what they said last year, I think there has to be more urgency
00:46:33this year so that they're not making the same mistakes.
00:46:36You mentioned the power issue and that brings up the obvious Pete Alonzo question.
00:46:42It never felt that the front office really loved Pete Alonzo.
00:46:46Uh, uh, Steve Cohn brought them back at 30 million, uh, previous year, uh, this is
00:46:53year.
00:46:53They never made an offer.
00:46:55Uh, perhaps they would have, if it had been a two or three year deal, they were never going
00:46:58to get to five years.
00:47:00Uh, right now we have kind of a rotation of first baseman.
00:47:03Maybe Polanco will handle the bulk of it once he comes back, but, uh, none of them have
00:47:07looked particularly great defensively either.
00:47:10Uh, did the Mets underrate the value and also the reliability, you know, Alon, uh, Nemo,
00:47:16uh, was playing almost every day.
00:47:19Uh, Pete plays every day and they brought in Robert and they brought in a Polanco and
00:47:24frankly, the shit too, who's had some injury history.
00:47:27Uh, should they have really, uh, put more value in the Pete's power and reliability to
00:47:34answer the question?
00:47:34I go back.
00:47:35I like to use examples and I go back to when we were facing off against the Braves in
00:47:40those in the nineties and they had all that success, right?
00:47:43John Scherholz, the hall of famer used to sit there and they, and I remember asking him
00:47:48after I left the Mets, they changed over the roster every year, about 10% of the time,
00:47:52but they kept their core group together, um, because they knew what they had there.
00:47:57And then they added some pieces.
00:47:58Some of them were supplemental, some of them were impact, but that's how they built their
00:48:02team for, you know, over a long period of time and had an incredible amount of success.
00:48:07I think if you could say the same thing about the Dodgers, right?
00:48:10They have put a lot of emphasis on chemistry, on makeup, on culture, what they did last
00:48:16year with an intranging over those pieces.
00:48:18And I think they underestimated, you know, in some ways, Pete and his ability to hit in
00:48:22New York and what he did there, but Nimmo and what he provided as well is you changed
00:48:28over your whole culture and even that, you know, right.
00:48:31So take out what we already talked about with the handling of New York piece, but there's
00:48:36a culture that over time, you know, it takes time to, to kind of get, uh, on the same wavelength
00:48:43and, and create that chemistry.
00:48:45Um, but you also have all this other struggles going on at the same time.
00:48:49And, and so, you know, I think that to me, uh, personally, and most, most of the GMs that
00:48:55I've spoken to about this a bit, I said they wouldn't have turned over the roster as much
00:48:59as they did, you know, and, and they had a ton of position players that they changed out.
00:49:03Like I, I always feel for Lindor because he takes the brunt of this and the, some of this
00:49:07is unmistakable, his, his overall mistakes in the field.
00:49:10But if you look around at third, second, first, right field, center field, and in a
00:49:17new position guy in left field, they're all new players.
00:49:19Like he, he has to get accustomed to all new players and he missed almost the entire part
00:49:24of spring training.
00:49:25So some of that too, was him being inserted into a whole new team that he wasn't even
00:49:30around because he was injured.
00:49:32So, you know, I think there's so much there, you know, that points to why they have struggled
00:49:37to this point, but also where to me, if, if it comes together, which hopefully it will,
00:49:42um, you know, I think there'll be better days ahead, but again, there's a lot of uncertainty
00:49:45with that.
00:49:46You know, Jim, uh, we mentioned at the top of the interview, you, you were with the last
00:49:50team, that team that lost 11 in a row, you know, for you with the general manager, just
00:49:54wonder for our listeners, what, what does it feel like when you just can't get a win?
00:49:59And what do you think this team is going through?
00:50:04And I mean, maybe more important, I'm sorry for a multi-part question is, do you think
00:50:07they have, you mentioned all the change, the fabric, the leadership culture, whatever it
00:50:13is to pull themselves out of this kind of quicksand when you, when you feel so bad every
00:50:17day?
00:50:17Yeah.
00:50:18Yeah.
00:50:18So, so I remember going through it and you felt like you're never going to win another
00:50:21game.
00:50:22That was, that was the initial mindset.
00:50:24And when you got to like six or seven games and it started going another game.
00:50:27And then, you know, as you get to games eight and nine, there were guys that hadn't struggled
00:50:32to that point, had been, hadn't been a part of the losing streak that then, you know, that
00:50:37was their time to have their one game where they weren't going to perform, you know, how
00:50:41they had previously.
00:50:42And of course that adds to the losing streak too.
00:50:45And then, you know, you add to that, you know, we had a bunch of injuries.
00:50:48We didn't have great leadership at that point.
00:50:50Like, and it was the, towards the end of the season.
00:50:52So you felt your season was basically the air was coming out of the balloon and you're
00:50:57done.
00:50:58Like, you know, at the deadline, we were trying to make a couple of trades.
00:51:01We thought there was a chance we could, we could make a little bit of a run.
00:51:05Not only did that fail, but it failed miserably.
00:51:08And so, you know, the, the, everything around that, I think we lost our final.
00:51:1230 or 42 games, but at the end of August, early September, we felt our season was leaving.
00:51:20I think the difference here is it's happened so soon, so early that it doesn't take a lot
00:51:27of games over 500 per month to get yourself back into this thing, preferably go on a five
00:51:33or six or seven game win streak and make a huge leap.
00:51:36But I think the key here is, is not getting too far ahead of yourself here in thinking
00:51:42that you're done.
00:51:43Your season is done before we got to may.
00:51:45And that to me is, is the, the silver lining in all of this, that they can absolutely come
00:51:50out of this.
00:51:51It's a talented enough group.
00:51:53They have enough starting pitching.
00:51:54I don't know if they do on their bullpen, but I think they'll have enough offense, but
00:51:59they have to figure some things out on that side of things.
00:52:02And, you know, right now they're not even hitting the fastball.
00:52:05They have the worst slug and OPS on a fastball in the sport.
00:52:09And I don't know if you could have sat there in looking at this team in the spring and ever
00:52:13predicted that.
00:52:14I want to ask you how important the chemistry is.
00:52:17People talk about last year that the chemistry wasn't great.
00:52:20Obviously something's amiss this year to this point.
00:52:23But, you know, you look back in history, the, the A's teams in the seventies, the Yankees
00:52:28teams in the late seventies, they fought with each other.
00:52:31These teams are, these Mets teams, despite what some people are speculating outside, they're
00:52:36not really fighting with each other.
00:52:37I don't see it.
00:52:37I'm in that clubhouse, but how important is chemistry and, and, and leadership in that
00:52:43clubhouse?
00:52:43Well, I think it, a lot of times it'll show itself or not when you go through streaks
00:52:50like this, when you're winning, that helps anything.
00:52:53But when you're not, you know, you're, you're always looking to your leaders, um, and looking
00:52:59for some sort of, of culture to kind of pull yourself out of this.
00:53:03And I'll go back to the 24 team, um, just because, you know, it's, it's so recent, but
00:53:10a big reason why they were able to come out of it was a change in the mindset from a
00:53:14leadership
00:53:15group that, you know, included Lindor in there and it included Nemo, who's not there,
00:53:20but also included a JD Martinez type of veteran guy or Iglesias that were guys that didn't
00:53:25necessarily play every day.
00:53:27Um, but that mindset, the team meeting they had at the end of May was, you know what,
00:53:31everyone thinks we're out of it.
00:53:32Why don't we just play, play for ourselves?
00:53:35You know, if you had somebody in that room that would come up and say that, or out of the
00:53:38gate, I think that might help.
00:53:40The only problem is you got a bunch of new guys who are struggling that, that are veterans
00:53:45that normally would say that, and your star player, Lindor, uh, is struggling too.
00:53:50Um, and so, you know, and Soto's not with you.
00:53:53So, but somebody in that room has got to, I think, pull this together and not, not the
00:53:58manager personally.
00:53:59I think it's gotta be, it's gotta come from the players.
00:54:01Last question and $64,000 question, Jim, uh, do you think they're going to pull out of
00:54:06this?
00:54:08Boy, you know what, if you'd asked me a couple of days ago, I would have said, oh yeah, there's
00:54:13still plenty of time.
00:54:14And I still feel that way.
00:54:16I still feel like the fact that we're not even at the end of April, that they, they can
00:54:20do it.
00:54:20I think the team is, is talented enough to do it, but any of these teams recently that
00:54:27when they've gone through these types of changes, you've seen quicker decision-making and quick,
00:54:33quicker roster decisions.
00:54:34I'd like to see a couple of roster changes right out of the gate.
00:54:38Some of them we've already talked about in, in this, in this segment here that, that needs
00:54:43to be done sooner rather than later, you know, and maybe, maybe you wait for the, for this
00:54:48next 12 game stand against teams that are below 500, but I wouldn't wait.
00:54:55I think, I think, you know, with the off day you just had to, it would have been a great
00:54:58time to do that here over the next couple of days.
00:55:01Obviously getting Juan Soto back is going to be a huge difference too, but I think, I
00:55:05think there's got to be a couple of, of, of tweaks or changes to this roster, but I
00:55:08do think they can come out of this.
00:55:11They need to do it quickly though.
00:55:12You know, Jim, I, I, I think I would speak for John also is obviously we've known you for
00:55:18a long time and we really value the relationship.
00:55:21You, we, we did cover your team when you lost 11 in a row and you sang down the thing
00:55:25and
00:55:26not, not every person in a front office handles it with integrity and honesty and
00:55:30grace.
00:55:31And even two decades later, I could say thank you for doing that.
00:55:35And of course, thank you for joining us on the show.
00:55:37Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
00:55:38I always enjoy our conversations when I see you guys, it's not enough, but I enjoyed it.
00:55:44Thanks for having me on today.
00:55:45I appreciate it.
00:55:46All the best, Jim.
00:55:53John and I, of course, thank Jim Duquette for joining us on the show.
00:55:57John, hit or error?
00:55:58I'm going to give a hit.
00:55:59I'm going to give the hit to Mason Miller and the Padres.
00:56:02Mason Miller for being absolutely dominant with a zero ERA, 71% strikeout rate.
00:56:08He's worked his way into the Cy Young conversation already.
00:56:12You don't see that from relievers nowadays when we're all looking at war.
00:56:15I don't think a closer or reliever, any reliever has won a Cy Young in more than two decades.
00:56:21It's not going to be easy to do.
00:56:22Obviously, there's Christopher Sanchez, there's Yamamoto, there's Alcantara, there's Otani, possibly.
00:56:30A lot of good pitchers in the National League, but Miller may be the guy who wins it this year.
00:56:36And it's a great story.
00:56:37I mean, he was throwing 85 at Williamsburg University, and they discovered that he had diabetes.
00:56:45He got the right medicine.
00:56:46He's throwing 95, now he throws 103, and he is the best closer in baseball.
00:56:52You know, John, I wrote about this recently, and the idea of a Cy Young and maybe even an MVP.
00:56:57Relief pitch numbers are terrible this year, much worse than in recent years.
00:57:01And so he's doing something that he's doing it better than just about anyone ever for at least a three
00:57:08-week period.
00:57:09And he's doing it in an atmosphere where relief pitching isn't good and is helping to keep a Padre team
00:57:15that has a lot of holes.
00:57:17When they lead, they win.
00:57:19We talked about this earlier with the Mets, right?
00:57:21Is Devin Williams needed to come up big for them over the weekend and didn't.
00:57:26John, I'm going to give an error to the Philadelphia Phillies.
00:57:28It's easy.
00:57:29They're only 90 miles away, but because the Mets have been so bad, we might not have noticed.
00:57:34You know, the Phillies are 8 and 14.
00:57:36They actually have the worst run differential in the sport.
00:57:40They're actually minus 42.
00:57:41I think the Mets are minus 25.
00:57:44Hard to believe, right, that those are the two.
00:57:47But the Phillies are worse, and they're too old.
00:57:52They've got a lot of age on them, and maybe they'll rally to that.
00:57:56I did notice, you know, Kyle Schwarber set the record last year for left-on-left homers with 23.
00:58:02He has none this year in about 50 plate appearances, and they're hitting 172 against lefty pitching.
00:58:10Their third baseman has about a 15 OPS-plus Alex Bohm and is suing his parents for mishandling his finances.
00:58:19Adalus Garcia isn't working the way they hoped.
00:58:23They've got a lot.
00:58:24Their defense is by farâI'm a big defensive efficiency guy because I likeâthe ball got hit.
00:58:29Was it an out or not?
00:58:30They're not only 30th.
00:58:31They're 30th and, like, secretariat at the Belmont until 29th.
00:58:36And so there's a lotâlike, we asked a lot of questions during our show today, John, about if the Mets
00:58:42can revive.
00:58:43I think all the same questions could be asked about another team we thought would be there with Atlanta challenging
00:58:49for this division title, and that is the defending NLE's champion, the Phillies.
00:58:54They just look terrible.
00:58:55Yeah, and what's interesting is we've been talking about the Mets breaking up their team.
00:58:59The Phillies kept the whole gang together by re-signing Schwarber and then, of course, extending Sanchez.
00:59:05Sanchez has actually been great to this point, but nobody else hasâyou're right, we're barely noticing there.
00:59:11They've been remarkably terrible.
00:59:14And I don'tâdo they haveâdo they have Wheeler out?
00:59:17But they knew that going in.
00:59:18They just lost Duran, but they had had him until two days ago.
00:59:23They had been relatively healthy, and theyâI think they're going to get Wheeler back in about a week or so.
00:59:30And so they need their starting pitching to pitch a lot better with Wheeler, you know, get time on Walker
00:59:35out of the rotation.
00:59:35I wonder if he even keeps a roster spot.
00:59:38It's been pretty bad, and he's in the final year of a four-year contract.
00:59:41I wonder if they're going to have that divorce.
00:59:43But I've watched them a little on the package, and it justâyou know, I'm watching the lifeless Mets, and I'm
00:59:50like, oh, this looks familiar.
00:59:52I'm watching the lifeless Mets.
00:59:53But just another team would haveâdo you realize thisâit's the Mets, the Phillies, the Blue Jays, and the Red Sox
01:00:00are 2-4, 5-6 in payroll, and they all are massively underachieving.
01:00:05Yeah, you talk about the defense.
01:00:07Well, Johan Rojas wasâthey've had multiple drug suspensions in the last couple years, right?
01:00:13That doesn't help, not that he was going to be a starting player, but he at least is a good
01:00:17defender.
01:00:18I'm not sure why you need steroids to be a good defender, but, you know, I'm not an expert on
01:00:23that.
01:00:24It's really something to see them 7-under.
01:00:28And you brought up earlier, yeah, it's kind of like Houston, Philly, and the Mets.
01:00:32We've got to look at the managers now.
01:00:35Yeah, we like all those guys.
01:00:37They're all friends of the show.
01:00:39All former big-time Yankees.
01:00:41We're a little biased in wanting to keep them, I think.
01:00:43But we'll see.
01:00:46Hopefully, the ax does not befall them.
01:00:48Yeah, we got to know all those guys well as Yankee coaches along the way, right?
01:00:52A spot of Thompson and Mendoza were all Yankee coaches for a significant period of time.
01:00:59This was always a great effort by Tommy Hogan, jumping in to help us.
01:01:04Our producer is always the best.
01:01:05Helps us every week.
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