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00:00the loudest group of angry fans are always the if george were in charge this would happen they'd
00:05have this free agent this guy would be fired and it misses the point that when he was at his
00:11worst
00:11like doing all of that the yankees were also at their worst i wonder where you come to peace like
00:16are the yankees better off with hal or george look at me i think in the modern game they're
00:21much better off with hal john this is an easy one this week our friend uh and colleague mike
00:27vaccaro has a book out the bosses of the bronx and he's going to join us on the show yeah
00:32this is
00:32great uh uh george steinbrenner we wrote about in the bosses of the bronx obviously with hal steinbrenner
00:38george steinbrenner one of the most fascinating characters in not only baseball history and
00:41sports history and in our history so i i can't wait to talk to mike about this and i give
00:47my credit
00:47unlike a lot of our other weeks he readily came on we didn't have to uh chichol anybody and chase
00:54anybody down uh mike was happy to come on because he's got a a book bosses of the bronx yeah
01:01uh
01:02john when you say our history i know you i could speak for you we we lost a lot of
01:06sleep uh tracking
01:07the doings of george steinbrenner and waiting or not waiting for phone calls to come from him
01:11uh back in the day when he was the owner and the biggest force in the sport uh so we're
01:17going to talk
01:17to mike about that uh john and i are going to talk about the world baseball classic uh some issues
01:23that have cropped up in the met and yankee uh rotations and we'll play hit and error in the end
01:27if you stick with us on the show with joel sherman john
01:35john uh you are in miami i am in tampa anybody who's watching this can see the difference you
01:41have a beautiful background i have curtains in a hotel room but it also means that you were at the
01:47semifinal game which i did watch on tv uh and it looks spectacular for the wbc and let me just
01:55give
01:55one big thumbs up for this wbc it has brought passion and interest to the sport at this time of
02:02year which
02:03was the idea of this it's gotten some worldwide renown i am fascinated if people in italy are watching
02:09uh baseball with the success of the the italian team uh john you you saw a real classic kind of
02:17game the the u.s got by two to one over the dominican holding the dominican to one run when
02:22you consider that lineup is spectacular uh polskins and a slate of relievers did that john as the guy
02:30who was there to tell us whatever it is you you it's going to stick with you the passion anything
02:35from the game uh go ahead yeah i mean wbc is an amazing hit around the globe i think it's
02:43just a
02:43great job i'm obviously the one in 2023 where i was there at the end as well with the drought
02:48striking
02:49out at otani that was in a great finish this has been a great tournament start to to almost finish
02:56we'll see if u.s completes the job they're in the finals now against italy or venezuela uh the passion
03:02is amazing i i know it's uh more out there on some of these other teams the dominican dancing around
03:09in venezuela you know italy with the espresso and the kisses on the cheeks uh they are obviously
03:16really into it uh you know um you know it's been a great it's been a great uh tournament and
03:24uh you
03:24know i'll say this for mark de rosa our colleague at mlb network he obviously uh didn't say the right
03:30thing on tv it didn't look good i still not convinced uh that he didn't know and he just
03:36likes to talk on tv and didn't even realize what he was saying or that he was just overconfident but
03:42maybe maybe he didn't know in any case uh he did a great job setting things up to make sure
03:47that
03:47skeins was there in the semi-final game against uh arguably the best team the most talented team
03:53uh he picked all the right relievers in the right order uh five of them did a fantastic job all
04:00scoreless um he put gunner henderson in the game i mean i think that was probably easy and obvious
04:06he's seven for nine lifetime against severino but uh you know give him a bouquet today he's been hit
04:13pretty hard over the last couple weeks uh uh i think he did a great job john can i can
04:19i give you
04:19and again i have not been at games you have been at games but just from a distance um a
04:25few things
04:25stand out to me please feel free jump in if you want it i almost feel bad that bobby witt
04:31jr plays
04:31baseball in a time of otani and judge because it gets overshadowed that he is one of the best all
04:38around baseball players i've ever seen uh like how great a player he is and i think it gets oh
04:43you
04:44know like otani and judge are ruthian right like they make it they they loom above the game and then
04:51you watch bobby witt play baseball and you realize it's hard to play baseball as a total player better
04:57than bobby witt yeah i mean we talk about five tool players i mean a five tool shortstop it's pretty
05:02good i mean defensively i don't think there's even an argument he's clearly the best defensive
05:08shortstop in baseball i remember going up the road here about i don't know 75 miles to a
05:14jupiter and watching a perfect game event when he was a high school player i couldn't even believe
05:19it i mean the guy was hitting the ball 500 feet as a high school player uh and i'm like
05:24wow and then
05:25i couldn't i then i couldn't believe that a team passed on him uh number one he was picked second
05:29uh and i i guess you know obviously rutschman being a switch hitting uh catcher uh was you know
05:36couldn't they couldn't resist but i mean this is an all-time talent but yes he is overshadowed not
05:42just because uh it's otani uh unicorn and judge uh you know babe ruth and coordinated and the
05:50greatest hitter we've seen in years uh but he's also playing in kansas city uh you know the other
05:56guys are playing in los angeles in new york it's certainly a disadvantage and now on this stage
06:00where we're we're all seeing exactly the the player that he is uh you know and another thing
06:06that stands out for me john is like look i hope nobody burns out uh because they amped it up
06:12at
06:12this time of year with 162 games in six months and maybe seven months ahead for some but again just
06:19thinking about bobby witt i have to assume this like helps vinnie pasquatina uh who has emerged as
06:26the voice and the star of that italian team he's playing under great pressure he had a three homer game
06:32like like i do think greg weissert and garrett whitlock the back the guys who get the ball to
06:38chapman for boston they both have stood out in this tournament and i've got to think it gives you reps
06:43to play big games you like like you don't have to guess about it like these are big people care
06:51about this the teams care about it the fans care about it the league cares about it and these guys
06:55have really stood out i think it speaks well for their teams moving forward again weissert and
07:01whitlock are throwing like heavy duty innings in march it would just scare me a little if i were
07:05boston but what would elate me is i feel like i could give those guys the ball in whatever spot
07:12and they're not going to blink i wonder if you think this helps kind of like big picture with some
07:17guys who might have not have known about handling a big moment yeah i i feel looking at these teams
07:23and i'm looking at my predictions i feel a little better about the red socks and the royals after seeing
07:27this i mean royals i mean michael garcia you see wit a pasquantino is is quite a player a caglione
07:34uh i mean they they've been all over this uh tournament uh red socks same thing will your
07:40abreu all the outfielders of masataka yoshida again starring for japan uh weissert uh long islander uh
07:48which i always uh mention a striking out judge ending another game with more than an inning pitch to
07:54uh fantastic job um so yeah i mean i i certainly feel a little bit better about the red socks
08:01and
08:01the royals those are the two teams that have really stood out here uh at the wbc and john just
08:08a last
08:09observation and i know there's a difference between a very 10-day two-week tournament and 162 games plus
08:17but like great for the enthusiasm of the players like don't hide it uh the stayed game where don't
08:24show up me don't show up the umpire like like screw bad flips and all that but like what the
08:30players
08:31really care it makes the fans really care and it's okay to show that over 162 games also i get
08:39it
08:39you don't want to like carry on on april 9th or may 16th but the games do matter to the
08:46fans and
08:47show them show them that you care to this level i think it has great value to the overall sport
08:57and
08:57to your fan base for them to know that it really matters what's happening on the field yeah i mean
09:04kevin arrow with a home run the way he danced around the bases uh the excitement i was i think
09:08it was 90 for the dominican here and we're in the united states in miami by the way so uh
09:14it really
09:14was something i will say you know uh dominican uh venezuelan puerto rican teams uh have shown
09:21amazing enthusiasm energy i think that's great and i know i know the u.s team has looked at as
09:27business like i think they've been uh professional well behaved although i probably would uh give the
09:33fist bump or shake the hand if i if you're a seattle mariner teammate other than that i think
09:38they've been great but but i kind of get it from the u.s perspective uh it's a little bit
09:43in their
09:43personality maybe not to go crazy but uh look if you if you're in a tight game and you're playing
09:49a
09:50team that should be overmatched by a lot like mexico or even italy or uh canada uh and you you
09:57get a
09:58single it'd be a little unseemly to go nuts right i mean they were they they didn't play well to
10:03be
10:03acting like you you know you you've just scored a touchdown to win the super bowl or hit the home
10:07run to win the world series would be a little bit odd so i i kind of get their business
10:12-like approach
10:13uh they probably aren't quite the enthusiastic team that uh the dominican or the smaller countries are
10:20uh but uh i i i see nothing wrong with the way that they've handled it at all and when
10:27it came to
10:27the big moment uh they were there i mean they got help from italy let's not forget the fact that
10:31they
10:32they would have been out if uh mexico had won a low scoring game and they did get help but
10:37when
10:37the big moment came against a great team uh against arguably the greatest lineup ever uh they gave up
10:44one run uh pretty impressive performance and and again i i i give them credit it's not just de rosa
10:51but hill and all the other people who recruited this team we didn't have pictures like this on these
10:56previous teams right uh team usa finished sixth one year i think we finished eighth one year uh you
11:01know paul skeins and i know scuba was on there for one start but i mean no free agents uh
11:06ever going
11:07well peralta's not here right i mean he's a free agent right the the free agents it's not only the
11:13money it's the whole career that's ahead of them don't ever come they got scuba to come they got the
11:18best players they got uh logan webb uh their rotation is outstanding so i mean you know i think
11:25usa did a great job with the recruiting and and not enough is said about that because in previous years
11:29they had a lot of number three and four starters pitching for this team last observation john at
11:34least for me please please feel free to jump in wherever you want because again you're you're you're
11:38doing the hard work which is you're there is the game feels like it's in great shape like i think
11:43about the young players in this tournament roman anthony uh hits the deciding homer junior camanero
11:49in this gunner henderson by the way i just named three guys in the al east i mentioned bobby witt
11:54uh i i guess he's not a neophyte but like he's still a young player i i mean no one's
12:01going to ever
12:01be better than mariano rivera is my guess but holy cow mason miller just watching him pitch and
12:07thinking how would anybody score off of him and i i get the dr came incredibly close to doing it
12:12i just feel like i've watched a tournament where the other benefit is we've gotten to see you point
12:18out some guys didn't cause a free agency and stuff but but pretty much the best of the best have
12:23been
12:23there and so many of them are 25 26 or younger and at a time where i think we're so
12:29worried about
12:29labor and where that is heading it's like a great world series a great world baseball classic so many
12:35really terrific young players shining on this huge stage the game feeling a little national again and
12:43not just local john i i hope we don't screw it up yeah no no lockout please no silly no
12:50missed games
12:51but the thing that stands out about these young guys i to me skein's 23 seems like a full adult
12:56to
12:57me he doesn't seem like a kid and roman anthony same thing and i mean mark de rosa talked about
13:02it
13:02it's hard to believe that this guy's only 21 the way he uh acts uh and he's also played uh
13:08fantastically as well in big moments so uh yeah i mean the game is in a great spot wits only
13:1325 i mean
13:14what what a career he's got ahead of him uh i will agree with you nobody will be mariano rivera
13:19uh and
13:20miller did get a little lucky there at the end yeah yeah yeah it's a bad bad i don't see
13:24it from where
13:25i am but i i mean i see the internet and uh uh yeah he is uh amazing arm though
13:32right i mean the
13:33guy throws 100 203 miles an hour that was one of the i mean all the big trades that were
13:38made
13:38trade deadline that was the most interesting trade to give up the number three overall prospect and
13:43three more prospects leo de vries i'm talking about to get a reliever uh that says a lot about
13:49that reliever right yeah uh john i wonder if we could just quickly jump to the local teams i think
13:56one of the issues that's come up here as we approach about 10 days to maybe uh the beginning
14:01of the season is some pieces of the rotation both sean manier and i think louise heel have raised
14:09concerns about their place in the rotation and just about the quality i always try to temper hey do you
14:16know who hit 121 last spring training aaron judge like legitimately with one homer and then he went
14:23out and won his third mvp uh second consecutive so a little bit of this but i do think there
14:30are some
14:31worry because velocity is down for both guys uh the secondary stuff isn't playing for both and i do
14:37think both as a mid to back rotation guys have importance on this team uh john let's start because
14:44you were with the mets recently i'm with the yankees i'll take that over in a second but like
14:47to me i feel like the mets have this stack i really believe in peralta and mclean at the top
14:54and i really believe in holmes and peterson as really sturdy good pieces to have at the back end
14:59can senga and mania almost combine for 30 really good starts to help them get to you know and maybe
15:06work in tongue or christian scott like i do think mania is important and he signed for a couple of
15:11more
15:12years here what do you think yeah i think their overall rotation depth is good about as just about
15:17anybody i mean once the yankee yankees get all their pitchers back it'll be pretty darn good i
15:22would think red socks have great uh pitching at the top and depth uh but the mets rotation looks
15:29pretty healthy here but mania is the one question of course they're saying they're not worried about
15:33it which i'm sure they are worried about it but what are you going to say in spring training right
15:37uh i mean spring training isn't everything but when your velocity is down and you're throwing the
15:42way mania is at this point and you had the year that he had last year i think there are
15:47definite
15:47concerns about mania uh senga i think has gone the opposite way as bad as he was last year and
15:55he was
15:55worse than mania and we sent to the minors uh he's looked good so far good signs now it's very
16:02early
16:02not going to draw conclusions that he's solved and everything's fine uh but uh i'm with you those
16:08are the two key guys for me i think holmes will be fine uh peterson is solid i think uh
16:14they're good
16:14at the top uh you know maybe not to match uh scoobal framber but uh certainly uh mclean peralta is
16:23among the top five number one two punches i think their pitching is in excellent shape i was there with
16:28christian scott he looked good uh they're saying good things about tong i think ultimately he's going
16:33to be a very good pitcher i'm not sure this is the year but uh overall feel very good about
16:38the
16:38mets mania big question mark at this point so tong was taken in the seventh round in 2022 so was
16:44cam
16:45schlittler uh was taken there i think the yankees feel kind of great about him right now uh going
16:51forward i think that their big picture vision john is freed cole and schlittler uh like being
16:59really almost like near ace level guys and that's obviously a huge jump for schlittler like from where
17:04he was uh but this guy i had lunch yesterday john with six scouts i think were at my table
17:10i think
17:10three of them were at his last start against toronto where in the first inning he threw 10 pitches nine
17:15strikes and struck out the side and one of them said you simply can't throw the ball better than he
17:20did
17:20for three plus innings that day so they feel good about him they feel good where cole's coming back
17:25they feel good where rodan's coming back it's max freed i think there's some questions about ryan
17:29weathers uh kind of working into this group and then the other one is louis heel just since since
17:35he hurt his lat last year it just doesn't look at all like the guy who won the al rookie
17:39of the year
17:40in 2024 uh aaron boone said he's in the road he's on the staff i think they've got four off
17:46days in
17:47the first 13 days of the season my suspicion is they'll go to a four-man rotation and some piggyback
17:52and hill will be it in it john my suspicion is hill has about three to four weeks until rodan
17:59comes
17:59back to prove that he is a good major league starter again he has an option left i know they
18:05don't want
18:05to use that option you always want to keep optionality but i think that's i think he's the guy under
18:12the
18:12most rest here he gave up three homers and three innings and seven runs against detroit on sunday
18:17he just has not looked good yeah i i think there's still some questions on weathers and i i declared
18:24him an incredible success uh after the 99.8 miles an hour and his first outing uh as a yankee
18:31which
18:32was a an all-time high for him and uh the numbers he was at number seven not a seventh
18:37rounder number
18:37seven overall pick by a guy who's pretty good at this uh aj preller uh several years ago uh you
18:44know
18:44i i i declared it a great trade right away we'll see i i think we gotta they got a
18:50couple questions
18:50there but uh looking at all the teams around the league you get cole coming back you've got rodan
18:55coming back uh you know you obviously schlittler amazing pick and give matt hide the credit there the
19:01scout there who came up with schlittler and uh with ben rice yeah uh and their pitching coach matt
19:09blake and a lot of other things uh this is the this is the guy who's the lowest paid uh
19:14should be the highest paid guy in the organization after judge probably it's uh really amazing
19:20i mean schlittler was at northeastern not exactly a baseball hotbed rice was at dartmouth
19:25it's certainly not a baseball hotbed and uh they are two of the best i don't know five or six
19:31players on that team uh but i i mean schlittler looks like i mean and he's got i mean he's
19:36got
19:36moxie too i mean he oh man good he's good i talked to him for a while yesterday he does
19:42not suffer for
19:43confidence and by the way either there's rice it's the one of the things they show it's interesting
19:47quiet a little quieter crisis like a renaissance man i mean i'm impressed that he could he knows he
19:52can speak spanish with the players i mean uh you know i took six years of it and i could
19:56say hola
19:57and and gracias and that's about it so i mean the guy's a fat fantastic fabulous uh guy i love
20:04them
20:04both they're they're not the same schlittler is a very confident guy i believe you i think rice is
20:10confident too but more of a quiet confidence than than schlittler and they're both great if you ask
20:15them the questions like like rice doesn't shy away from like if you ask rice like what kind of catcher
20:20could be it isn't exactly like he's saying well they should keep me at first base he thinks he'd be
20:24an all-star as a catcher so i think he's better as a catcher so i'm kind of with him
20:28on that i don't
20:29know i don't know if he's an all-star defensively but he was when we've seen him he's looked pretty
20:33decent as a catcher uh he looked like he needed a little work at first base still uh yeah to
20:38be
20:39honest but i mean as a hitter uh i mean it's huge because i mean obviously there's always worries about
20:45uh john carlo with the with the uh injuries uh you never know as brian catchman pointed out a few
20:51years ago and he now says he can't open a bag of chips i don't know maybe that's my issue
20:56i shouldn't
20:56open the bag of chips but uh he uh you know to have rice in there uh it feels like
21:01a sure thing i mean
21:02the the hard hit rate and the exit velocity i mean they ranked with soto and judge and the and
21:07the other
21:08great players in the league i think his stats he was a little unlucky last year he was very good
21:13but a
21:14little unlucky as well well the yankees gonna need all those guys right weather is hill uh schlittler
21:20rice etc because they're as always championship or bust the uh one who created that mantra was george
21:27steinbrenner uh it's been carried on by his son hal our friend and colleague mike picaro has written a
21:32book about that the bosses of the bronx and mike is going to join us next on the show
21:42john and i are obviously thrilled to be joined by our great colleague mike picaro who's not only the
21:48best uh general sports columnist in the country uh but is a proficient author and that includes his
21:55most recent one the bosses of the bronx i hope that's showing up okay tommy hogan right there uh mike
22:01was
22:02nice enough to send me an advance copy i was reading it on the plane on the way down mike
22:06i
22:06promised to also buy one and give it to a friend along the way here uh mike thank you so
22:11much for
22:12joining us on the show it's great seeing you guys i've you know no spring training for me this year
22:16so i've missed you guys nice seeing your smiling faces again so so i i wonder uh mike you've done
22:23this for a long time in our city uh and when you delve into a book like this which is
22:28about the the
22:29house of steinbrenner uh it's essentially about a lot mainly george but then the handoff to how
22:34and what it's meant for the last half century of baseball uh in general but specifically to the
22:40yankees tell me something you didn't know that the research and the interviews uh brought out
22:47you know to be i think it's ironic joel because you guys both covered him so you always knew there
22:53were a lot of sides to him um the thing that really emerged to me as i was doing this
22:58was that
22:58there really was you know two george's one who was the you know the trying to be a smart businessman
23:05guy with vision understanding the future anticipating it and that was the guy who was early as 1977 when
23:11he starts signing all these free agents understands it's not sustainable to do that you can't just go
23:16every year and buy the best the best guy you just can't do that you got to have a farm
23:21system and
23:21infrastructure and he really committed to that even as early as 77 78 at a time when i think
23:28history just looks at him as just you know buying every free agent in sight um but the funny thing
23:33was that the other guy inhabiting george's soul was the baseball fan and the maniacal baseball fan
23:39and the irrational baseball fan and the impetuous baseball fan and that guy overruled george too many
23:44times especially in the 80s and that was the real problem for him is that you know i think i
23:49think
23:50intellectually he understood you know at least i won't say that he was you know thinking 40 years ahead of
23:55his time but he certainly saw that there was a certain amount of sustainability to what he was
23:59doing but it had to be augmented in other ways and he just never really allowed that to happen
24:04until he was forced to go away and basically gene michael was you know left to employ implement you know
24:11a lot of what george had always talked about in meetings and never actually did when the time came
24:16to building a team mike a fantastic job incredible i don't know how you do it write a column
24:22two columns every day sometimes and then write a i don't know 12 000 page book and thank you for
24:27sending me the copy unlike ken davidoff it did get here on on time and i hope unlike ken davidoff
24:32you
24:32don't keep sending me books i i they come every day in his books i have one book that's enough
24:37i
24:37appreciate it terrific you have a lot of rooms in your house john you need a lot of 101 all
24:42right
24:43it's good i'm enjoying it i you seem a little more positive about steinberg than you did in your
24:50columns did did you have uh uh from with with all your research uh do you now believe he belongs
24:58in
24:58the hall of fame and do you see him as more positive than negative obviously you mentioned a couple
25:03different georges there were certainly several sides to him and he was certainly ahead of his
25:08time in many ways but there was some negative side to him as well he was suspended rightly for a
25:13couple years he didn't treat employees always great uh but do you feel a little more positively
25:18about him now that you've done all this research and written this book beautiful book well john you
25:23just haven't got a negative part yet i don't think because because they're in there obviously that's
25:28the thing about george is that there are a lot of there are a lot of high highs and just
25:31some just
25:31profoundly low lows and i do try to explore all of that but the question about the hall of fame
25:36i will
25:37say you're right i mean i've done a 180 on that particular issue i mean uh for years i wrote
25:42and believed
25:43and fervently believed that a guy gets kicked out of baseball twice he probably shouldn't be allowed in the
25:47hall of fame um and i get that um i also know that over time i've changed my position a
25:52lot of a lot
25:53of times on a lot of players you know both with the votes that i have and just feeling subsequently
25:58after they leave the ballot whether they belong um p rose is a guy who's a great example i mean
26:03you
26:03know i think that what i've settled on with p rose is that you know at some point he probably
26:07deserves
26:08a plaque in the hall of fame but on that plaque you know you have to say he had 4
26:12000 so many hits
26:13and he did all of his accomplishments but you also have to put on there you know that he was
26:18suspended
26:18from baseball why he was suspended from baseball you remember that baseball hall of fame is a history
26:23museum and a place where we celebrate every ounce of baseball history all the good all the bad and
26:28look with george steinman at the end of the day i just and you know when i asked hal this
26:32question
26:32he wouldn't campaign for his father but he but he said this and he's right you know you can't possibly
26:37write an accurate history of baseball without including a lot of george steinman in there you
26:42know and you know for the good for the bad um his teams were wildly successful however you want to
26:47qualify how he was able to get that done uh i say you just you know use the resources that
26:53he had
26:54available to him and the rules of the game to uh to to for a lot of his successes but
26:59you know i think
26:59on his plaque also you have to have the good and the bad you know the yankees won
27:04seven championships under him um they you know became the most famous brand in the entire sport
27:11you know that interlocking ny logo is one of the great brands and logos in the world in any business
27:16and that was all under his watch but then you also put under his watch that he was suspended twice
27:21and the second time was supposed to be a permanent ban but you know for circumstances
27:25among his accusers i mean he was able to get his way back into the game so i mean i
27:30think a full
27:30accounting of his life is worthy of the fame part of hall of fame um and uh you know so
27:37to me i mean
27:38i i i don't know that that's ever going to happen i think that there's growing momentum i don't know
27:43if it's growing to the point where that'll happen in 2027 when he's next you know eligible to go in
27:49but uh i do think that at some point i think like i mean you see some of the people
27:53who are in the hall
27:54of fame who are owners and and and executives and he certainly belongs among that crowd um and i think
28:00that that will happen eventually will happen in our lifetime uh who knows it certainly didn't happen
28:05in george's lifetime and to his credit i asked him the question directly are you a hall of fame or
28:09he
28:09said no i'm not and whether he was just giving me a with it with it with it he just
28:15knew that was
28:15going to be a nice back page column for me for an earlier whatnot uh or he truly believed and
28:19that's
28:20what he said yeah you know i didn't agree with george often but i agreed with him there i have
28:24to
28:24me par is one par is one suspension what can i say you know i i agree if you go
28:30to the hall of fame
28:31it's a museum george steinbrenner's in the museum in a bunch of different places getting into the
28:35plaque room is one step too far for me and it does kind of lead to my other question which
28:39is
28:39a lot of people who didn't see the worst of george which included an entire decade plus where
28:46the team was a laughing stock and he was uh the most hated person in new york he was dolan
28:52before
28:52dolan on steroids uh uh in new york uh and you do have the dolan anecdote uh which is great
28:59in your
28:59book uh where dolan thinks somehow he's the champion of being hated um that uh uh there's a bunch of
29:08fans
29:09the loudest group of angry fans are always the if george were in charge this would happen they'd have
29:15this free agent this guy would be fired and it misses the point that when he was at his worst
29:20like
29:21doing all of that the yankees were also at their worst i wonder where you come to peace like are
29:25the yankees better off with hal or george look at me i think in the modern game they're much better
29:31off with hal i mean i really but i really believe that i mean you know george was was dealing
29:35with
29:36different economics and a whole different sphere of of what the game was back then i mean you know i've
29:41i've said this a lot and i say in the book a couple of different times you know he put
29:45together
29:45a team that was pretty famously called the best team money can buy in 1977 right that total payroll
29:50was three million dollars which is you know funny a funny number just in general but even if you
29:55translate that to 2026 dollars with the inflation calculator that's about 17 million dollars and
30:00you know garrett cole's gonna make that before he ever throws a pitch in anger this year
30:04um and so it's a whole different economic system in in those days you know when he would talk to
30:09his partners and saying they would they would yell at him because he could then add a dividend in a
30:13couple of years he'd laugh back and he'd say well that's the that's the cost of an expensive season
30:17ticket and they'd all laugh and go on and and and and life would go on merrily but you know
30:23house
30:23having different kind of conversations with his partners now when you know you're talking about
30:27maybe spending as much as three quarters of a billion dollars on one player those are just
30:31different economics and look for better or worse yes you know george went against some deep
30:36pocketed guys in his day you know when he went after catfish hunter he had to deal with ray crock
30:41who sold so many happy meals they get out he outbid the yankees by like two million dollars
30:45you know a couple years later when he was going after reggie jackson he was going after the
30:51the montreal expo has offered him two million dollars more than the yankees best offer because
30:55they were owned by the bronfen family which owns seagram so they were deep pocketed guys then
31:00but they were also deep pocketed guys they weren't the kind of corporation monoliths that you have now
31:05when you talk about the dodgers when you talk about the blue jays and just the one you know
31:09incredibly deep pocketed guy in his own city now uh in steve cohen he you know george didn't have to
31:14deal with that and you know george's george built his team in the 70s when linda linda de
31:19rolle was was asking for foul balls back so they could be cleaned off and used again
31:23you know that's who that's who his competition in new york was it's a lot different for how now
31:28i mean steinbrenner certainly i don't want to say invented uh free agency but certainly took advantage of it
31:33very wisely with the catfish hunter and reggie and all the other guys and certainly they led to the
31:38late 70s championships uh you you mentioned that uh you know he kind of had a uh revelation uh later
31:45and understood that uh building through the farm system was the way to go i know i've always kind
31:51of imagined that it was that suspension where he was out and uh gene michael and some others in the
31:57yankee organization uh now i'm not saying george was completely out i don't believe that uh you know he
32:03he wasn't in some contact but uh i gotta be another reason he shouldn't be in the hall of
32:07i gotta be real about this but i mean suspended do you think i mean obviously they they with the
32:15core
32:15four and all the great stuff that they did through the farm system uh they had a a second uh
32:20great hey
32:21day uh with steinbrenner as the owner uh do you give him that credit uh or some of that credit
32:27i mean
32:27i i've always just kind of felt it was gene michael and all the executives who did all that well
32:32i think that's
32:33part of what makes the story so tantalizing frankly because i mean you talk about the gene michael era
32:38but let's face it i mean you know basically george had two ears of prosperity and they were both built
32:43while he was gone you know the first time he was suspended it was gabe paul who you know was
32:48also
32:49you know dealing with a suspended owner uh but he was the guy who required chambliss and dick tedrow and
32:55mickey rivers and ed figueroa you know and on and on the you know the bones of that team um
33:01and george had to had to you know george obviously gave him his approvals and so forth
33:06when uh they acquired catfish hunter but you know this was gabe paul's team and that bothered george
33:12and you know gabe didn't last much longer after george returned but the same in the same exact instance
33:17years later when he was suspended the second time gene michael a guy who by the way gabe paul had
33:22cut
33:22once upon a time uh ironically enough uh but it allowed him basically to get a head start in his
33:28executive
33:28career earlier than he wanted but in george's absence your stick was able to do the same thing
33:33and look i i think i think we're all kidding ourselves if we say that um that george would
33:39have that all all five key elements if you want to throw in bernie bernie williams to the core four
33:43i don't lose any chance that all five of those elements would still be on the yankees by 1996
33:49if george had been in charge in 1991 or 92 okay i just don't believe that and and then you
33:54can take it
33:54a step further and say well maybe there was enough there where they could have won one of those titles
33:58they won i don't think they would have won as often as they did and i think that's fair and
34:04sure
34:04that's a black mark against him when it comes to to assessing his hall of fame candidacy um but the
34:10thing that i would just i guess the only counter i would have to that is that most of the
34:13executives
34:14who are in aren't in because their teams won or because of the success they had it was you know
34:19a
34:19lot of them are dubious characters tom yawkey's in there you know i mean you know bud selig is in
34:24there i like bud selig so do you guys i think but you know certainly he's a polarizing figure
34:28about his presence in the hall of fame given how he turned to blind diet of steroids and all of
34:32that
34:32so um yeah i mean i i i don't think i think that george gets the credit because he was
34:38the guy signing
34:39the checks you know and look he gets the credit because he built the yankees into something that was as
34:44meaningful as it's become um it's amazing i think it's always important to remember guys i mean you
34:50guys were kids like i was back in 1973 i mean there was one team in town and it wasn't
34:54the yankees
34:54you know the mets were out drawing the yankees by two and a half to one they had the good
34:58tv
34:59deals they had the good radio deals they were making money hands over fist uh the yankees were
35:03playing in a decrepit ballpark and they almost moved to new orleans of all places um think about
35:08that for a second the new orleans yankees they probably would have to change their nickname i think
35:12but you know and george george was responsible for for all of that um i i think it's silly to
35:18give him credit for everything and look i've and that's what i think i mean you know you guys i'm
35:21sure both in the stadium the day that uh that george was suspended and you you know you heard the
35:26chance you know i think i think we're all too young for the chance that he got when reggie came
35:30back and
35:30the stadium is filled with steinbrenner sucks cheers but um you know that's also part of who he was i
35:35mean like joe mentioned the thing that did dolan where he couldn't believe that steinbrenner said steinbrenner died
35:41a king what are you talking about and i told him about that night at yankee stadium where he was
35:45chanted out of the you know he chanted in derision and told him said well you know maybe maybe maybe
35:50they'll love me when i'm dead and that's kind of i mean the sad morbid truth is that you know
35:55as
35:55the the longer we go from the time of the boss the more the boss is a part of legacy
36:00and legend
36:00and not reality yeah and a great whitewash of the bad parts of his reputation good it's good when your
36:07team runs the network and can have whatever hagiography they want uh for their for the uh
36:13patriarch of the team uh look when when hal took over uh mike uh there was a sense that he
36:21didn't
36:21really he kind of did it out of obligation as much as anything else uh he was you know his
36:27brother hank
36:28didn't really you know and is now unfortunately has passed but like seemed erratic and maybe not able to
36:35handle this hal was clearly more stable tell us something you think you learned i usually don't
36:41like two-part questions i'll give you one anyway tell us something you learned about about hal and
36:46number one and number two do you think he actually loves this responsibility i'm going to cheat here
36:51because i'm going to kind of answer both questions with one answer which is that um i you know i
36:57too
36:57i i think wondered about that uh before i before i talked to him for for this project especially um
37:04you know he definitely has a sense of obligation he he understands the privilege it is to be a
37:11steinbrenner and to run the yankees and and and the responsibility and the obligation which is the word
37:15you use and that's that's all very true but i also wondered i mean is this something that burns to
37:20i
37:20i mean i you know i remember asking him the question directly i'm like you can basically
37:25sell this team and ensure you know guaranteed wealth for generations of steinbrenners to come
37:30does that ever tempt you and you know he laughed and said well you know if i i understand why
37:35you asked
37:35the question but you know what do the kids say you know tell me you don't know me without saying
37:39you
37:40don't know me and you know i think we all saw a glimpse of that when they beat the the
37:44guardians in
37:45the alcs a couple years ago uh you know he wasn't he wasn't like george was where he george loved
37:51going
37:51around the clubhouse in his in his youth and dunking billy martin with uh with swiss champagne and reggie
37:56with champagne i mean he was a lot quieter but you could see just how happy he was how how
38:00he enjoyed
38:01watching the yankees win he wanted the yankees to get the attention the players to get the attention
38:05that is you know one place where he varies greatly from his father but i do believe he burns to
38:12win i believe it i believe it bothers him uh that he's got this streak now of of title free
38:17teams
38:17um but i think he also is able is able to look at it more rationally he understands the value
38:23of taking a swing and it's funny guys i mean you know a couple months ago our colleague dan martin
38:28called me up and he said he asked me he said have you ever actually heard brian cashman say the
38:32word
38:32crapshoot and i said honestly i haven't but i'm sure i'm sure we can find it out and so you
38:37know
38:37there's a million archival services to look it up and i literally looked up every story that
38:41that included brian cashman's name and crapshoot and honest to god he he's never he's never said
38:47that even though he's the one who's accused of saying it and the interesting thing is two things
38:52one i think the reason why he's so adamantly opposed to using it even if he doesn't realize
38:56it himself is that in his last days with the yankees joe tor used it a lot and and clearly
39:02used
39:03it as a crutch or an explanation and that kind of irritated brian i think in the moment and so
39:07he
39:08won't use it again but the but the really funny thing is that there's like 11 different examples
39:12of where howl says well as brian always says the playoffs are a crapshoot and so and so you know
39:18it's become it's become brian's uh keyword but i think that how understands that that's actually true
39:24i mean it it is a different world now um in terms of being able to to succeed in october
39:31you know i think
39:32one of the reasons why we tend to give uh the most recent dynasty so much glory and attention even
39:38in even you know when you line it up against the great dynasties of the yankees past is that so
39:44many
39:45of those teams had to win four games to win a championship and every one of those teams had to
39:49win at least 11 and you know it's it's not easy you know it's what it's what's why with the
39:55dodgers
39:55and you saw the dodge the dodgers everybody looks at the dodgers as being this unbeatable juggernaut
40:00and they were absolutely lucky as crazy to win the world series last year they should have lost game
40:04six and they should have lost game seven but they didn't now you can credit for that but you can
40:08see
40:08just how hard a task it is and you know which is why i mean i don't think you're ever
40:12going to see
40:12something like what the yankees put together in the late 90s um but yes i mean to bring it back
40:19to
40:19your original question that bothers hank hank wants to be the owner of a world series champion i don't think
40:25he's
40:25going to rest particularly easy until he does that he has a different way of showing it than his father
40:29you're never going to be able to tell you know from his poker face that he's as angry as he
40:35is when it
40:35comes to this and part of that is because it doesn't manifest itself in firings and i understand from a
40:41fan standpoint i suppose that you get frustrated seeing the same guys run it back year after year
40:45but those guys running it back year after year are winning 94 95 96 games every year you know ask
40:51the
40:52that's how easy that is ask the cubs and the white socks how easy that is oh that's the dodgers
40:56how
40:56easy it is i mean the dodgers have been pretty you know pretty uh impressive the last 15 years but
41:00they struggled before that they're the los angeles dodgers so it's not just as easy as hiring somebody
41:05giving them the logo giving them a bunch of money and saying win games now win championships now and i
41:09think howell understands that in a way his father even if he understand it intellectually would never
41:13have allowed it himself to be presented that way yeah i want to make one point on that hall of
41:18fame
41:19i i didn't realize tom yorkie's in the hall of fame that's my bad there uh my solution that would
41:24be to pull tom yorkie out of the hall of fame there's also that possibility we should we should
41:31extract the guy a year just moving on from that one guy one guy i like that i take oj
41:37simpson out of
41:38the hall of fame too anyway that's why i'm getting far afield of what i wanted to ask you uh
41:42you know
41:44obviously steinbrenner is a uh the most one of the most interesting characters in baseball history
41:49and the book and certainly his reign was longer and you know many more facets to him and i the
41:56book is
41:57you know i don't want to say 90 stein howell a george and 10 howell but it's uh you get
42:03a lot of
42:03howell in there still and i i appreciate that point of it because uh howell isn't discussed much and
42:09he does say in there that he loves his dad uh you know and but i want maybe i ask
42:14you to be able to
42:15do a little psychoanalyst analysis here because uh you know i believe you that he burns to win as
42:21well and has that in common with him but to me it seems like he's the opposite of of george
42:25in many
42:26many many ways he treats employees well uh by all appearances he befriends the star players uh he's not
42:34in the newspaper at all zero uh compared to a guy who loved to be in the pit i i
42:40mean is this a
42:41conscious effort or was there something that howell thought about and said uh you know i may love this
42:47guy but i i don't want to be anything like him i think he saw both what his father how
42:53his father
42:53behaved um toward employees when he was younger and also he understood that george had to answer for that
43:02and rightly so you know i mean i talk in the in the book about the rob butcher incident which
43:06we all
43:07know the the pr director who was basically fired for going home for christmas you know and and got
43:12back to do his responsibilities and was fired anyway and that became a brouhaha and you know it was it
43:16was terrible behavior by george and he and he was roasted for it and should have been and i think
43:21hell sees things like that as being just utterly preventable if you just act like a human being
43:25and i think yeah you know i i do think he's got more of a tendency uh to behave that
43:31way than his
43:31father did i mean there's one anecdote in the book that i that i really like and you know you
43:35know
43:35and i think it really shows you know a lot of the essence of what george is about you know
43:40when the
43:41crazy moment when when when he hired billy back you know a week after he fired him or five days
43:46after
43:46he fired him you know fueled by the way by the new york post because he saw on the new
43:50york post that
43:51the fans were asked you know who would you rather see go billy or george and uh you know billy
43:56billy george
43:57got 99 of the vote to go and uh jerry lisker who was a sports editor then you guys both
44:02know him
44:02you know demanded a recount because there's no way and he was told actually you're right it was 99.3
44:06and so it was you know and so when he when he brought reggie back you know they demanded of
44:12the pr guy at
44:12the time nicky marabito we got to talk to reggie i mean you can't you got to billy excuse me
44:16you know
44:17billy's coming back we have to ask about reggie i mean still it was unresolved and you know uh george
44:22didn't want to do it he finally relented and marabito took the writers out to the to the uh to
44:26to a restaurant in the bronx one day and billy was already two or three beers into it when he
44:30got there
44:31and he basically said that that reggie wasn't even as good a player as chicken stanley and he said it
44:36with a with a straight face and you know i think we guys both realized that there were a lot
44:39of reasons
44:39why billy probably felt that way but he felt that way and he said it and you know marabito could
44:43see
44:43himself dying a little bit because earlier steiner said okay do do the lunch but you know if anything bad
44:48comes out of this it's your ass and so you know marabito you know finally shuts the the meeting
44:54down goes back and tells george how it was and george was angry and he said well you know i
44:59don't
44:59tell you if this is in the papers tomorrow then you're fired just you know so proceed accordingly
45:03with your day and of course you know marabito knows what's going to be in the papers the next day
45:07so he's like basically figuring out how to pack boxes and stuff and around midnight he gets a call from
45:11one of the writers who says see when we see we just went on strike and so the you know
45:17the the new
45:18york papers all went on strike you know a lot of people credit that for why the 78 yankees made
45:23the
45:23comeback they made because there was no turmoil to be reported every day and uh you know the uh the
45:30boss never saw the stories and so marabito kept his job until he left to rejoin his old friend billy
45:35in oakland but uh that's uh yeah that's a true story and look i mean that that's the kind of
45:40that's the kind of craziness that makes for a fun half a half a chapter in the book and you'll
45:44never
45:44get that in the in the in the future biography written about hal steinbretter you know and uh i say
45:50this with with with with some affection toward hal that's not a book i'll probably want to read
45:54because it's not terribly interesting and you know i think part of the thing about about george you
45:59know for better or worse what makes the book i think interesting is is is the foibles
46:04is the is the silliness is the craziness is the nuttiness is the is the bad behavior you know um
46:10as well as the other stuff i mean i i i try not to shortchange the bad i try not
46:14to shortchange the
46:15good and you know you hope that at the end of the day you get a balanced account the reggie
46:19billy
46:20george stuff in the book is fascinating and uh you know he kept bringing billy back knowing that that
46:25reggie uh couldn't stand him uh i mean you mentioned that he he said and he felt that stick chicken
46:32stanley was better what was the what exactly was his problem with reggie uh you know he obviously
46:38reggie wanted like to be in the papers he was out there as well i mean he couldn't actually believe
46:43that chicken stanley was better i mean reggie is rightly in the hall of fame he's one of the greatest
46:48clutch hitters of all time he won i don't want to say single-handedly but you know uh the 77
46:53world
46:54series the home runs uh i you know uh i mean did he was he running some analytics thing where
46:59he
47:00looked at some fielding i mean well how could he think this badly uh seriously of reggie and that
47:05that's not real is it well i i think what you when you when you ponder the two men uh
47:11there are some
47:11how do we put this delicately um there were some differences between the two of them and when you
47:16when you look at the player billy martin was and the player reggie jackson was uh you know there
47:21there there couldn't be a starker contrast and i think billy preferred to surround himself with
47:26players like him it's why he liked thurman munson so much thurman was a lot better player than billy
47:31martin ever was but you know he was a guy who got his uniform dirty and billy liked that he
47:34liked
47:34willie randolph you know those are the kind of guys that he was partial to and i say he liked
47:39willie
47:39randolph and that you would probably dismiss the fact that this is all done out of racism which i
47:43think had played a little bit of a part in it too uh but i just don't think that i
47:46don't think
47:47that reggie and billy were the kind of guys who would ever have a beer together they had nothing in
47:50common they didn't look at the game the same way they didn't approach the game the same way uh
47:55billy was all about you know grabbing that pop-up on his shoe drop shoe tops famously in the world
48:01series off that jackie robinson pop-up which saved the world series and reggie was about saving the
48:05world series by hitting balls into the bleachers um those are two different approaches you know
48:09i i don't i think both men were at fault i don't think billy gave reggie a fair shot at
48:14the start
48:15and i think reggie became just became bitter and impetuous you know when he wound up getting
48:19suspended in 78 which ultimately led to the ones that born liar the others convicted quote
48:23it was because you know billy put the bunt sign on so how terrible a bunter reggie was now think
48:28about that for a second you're asking reggie jackson to bunt i don't care that it's small
48:32ball 70s i mean you're asking reggie jackson to bunt that's absurd to begin with and reggie's you know
48:36understand way ticked off of that he tries to bunt he's terrible at it billy takes the bunt off and
48:41reggie says no i'm gonna bunt and he takes a pitch he's gonna once again and finally pops up and
48:46ends
48:46the game and he wants to suspend it and and you know to me as much as everybody wants to
48:50point to
48:51the to the uh to the encounter in fenway park which is the famous one that was captured by the
48:54tv
48:54cameras and that was bad i mean i don't minimize it i probably go on for 20 pages about it
48:59but
48:59it's really that that moment against uh al reboski of the royals when reggie just said no i'm gonna not
49:05do what you tell me to do and you can't you can't possibly imagine how fundamentally offensive that
49:11was to billy martin as a manager as a guy who believed that when he was a player that the
49:15manager was god and believed when he was the manager that the manager was god and so he wasn't
49:20going to stand for that and that's that that's ultimately what led to the most uh remarkable thing
49:25but you know the thing the funny thing about george and billy is that they couldn't come from more
49:28different backgrounds one's rich one's poor one has a demanding father one has no father and yet the
49:34thing that that both of them would admit occasionally was that they were almost identical in certain ways one
49:40uh they they both hated losing far more than they enjoyed winning uh not a healthy way to approach
49:46life but that's what probably explains a lot of billy's successes and they were both stubborn you
49:51know and you know stubborn and somewhere to the point where i guarantee you that that if he gave
49:56billy martin truth serum in 1983 and 85 and 88 you know he probably might not have taken those last
50:02three gigs with the yankees and just let it go as it was but he did because he always believed
50:06that
50:06nobody could do that job better than him and it didn't matter he had to put up with george or
50:09not
50:10and ultimately he wound up you know anyway you guys know this i mean he would have been
50:15certainly on the job for number six if he hadn't died on christmas day and who knows how many times
50:20after that he was still a relatively young man there were there were billy sevens and eights and nines
50:24in his future if things hadn't gone crazy with her now of course that was also around the time when
50:29george wound up getting bounced from baseball i don't think that billy was probably stick michael's
50:33cup of tea as a manager so maybe that would have finally eased itself out you know natural net in
50:38a natural
50:38way but uh you know you guys have heard buck showalter you know talk about what what a genius
50:43billy martin was right so maybe billy would have always been around somehow even if things had worked
50:47out differently you know uh vac you mentioned that uh billy and george weren't the kind of guy to have
50:53a beer together billy did try to have a beer with everyone else in america though but for the record
50:59and i'd be the beer for starters and then he would move on to the other to the strong stuff
51:03uh you know i i i do think one of the values of the book uh is in this age
51:10of social media
51:11where there is such instant analysis of everything try when you read mike's book and you should read
51:18mike's book to imagine how that would have been covered if there was social media if there was
51:24twitter in particular and when you say oh this is what you wish the yankees were today
51:31do you really uh because mike covers it all in this uh vac uh obviously uh there's no better
51:39teammate than mike vaccaro uh there's nothing i i've said it in a bunch of different forums i love
51:45sitting next to you at ball games it's like i get my own talk show uh enjoyment sitting next to
51:50mike
51:50vaccaro he's a great writer a great author a great researcher which shows up in this book
51:58and uh he's our friend can i get the whole thing in there so i get your name also uh
52:02everyone uh
52:04who's a baseball fan especially a yankee fan uh the bosses of the bronx by our friend and colleague
52:09mike vaccaro vac thank you so much for joining us on the show guys thank you i'll leave you with
52:14this
52:14you talked about social media forget about what what the with the folks on what the masses on social
52:18media would be like can you imagine george with a with a iphone in his hand with with a twitter
52:23app
52:23open that would have been something that would be i can but that's for a different show well there
52:28are also exact reasons why you can because he inspired he inspired various others to do the
52:33same yes uh vac thank you so much for joining us on the show and great luck and success with
52:38the book
52:38thanks guys i really appreciate it good talking with you thanks mike
52:48john and i of course thank our great uh teammate vac mike vaccaro and his book the bosses of the
52:53bronx obviously again please uh go purchase the book it's uh it's a terrific read uh john hit or
52:59error i'm gonna give out another hit i don't know i've been very positive lately uh i'm gonna take a
53:04shot of espresso here for team italy uh to me it's a fantastic story i know we mentioned it earlier
53:10but
53:10i mean uh this looking at that roster that does not look like a roster that should be in the
53:15final
53:16four as vinnie pasquantino pointed out that's not a roster that should be able to compete with usa or
53:22venezuela or any of the teams here in japan uh puerto rico uh it's really an amazing story what
53:31they've done as we do this today they haven't lost the game yet uh i give them all the credit
53:37francisco
53:37cervelli we both covered a terrific guy or a posada i wonder if he felt in that dugout uh
53:43he's not that italian he's a little more puerto rican he was beating his team puerto rico uh but
53:49uh i'm giving them credit i i think an upstart story is great and this is one of the best
53:54upstart
53:55stories we've seen yeah i went to visit both cervelli and posada when italy was uh training in
54:00arizona just to go say hi uh to both of them i like both covering both of them i wanted
54:05to say hi
54:05italy is like the true march madness they're cinderella at this time of year in a tournament
54:10it's like a 16th seed keeps moving along here and it's it's hard to believe it's amazing and i will
54:16say it was funny to see posada in that on the bench working against puerto rico cervelli is venezuelan
54:22so uh you know he's gonna have to beat his his his country i don't know you you visited them
54:28how italian
54:29is posada i i missed that if he not much okay all right good uh but but i will say
54:34like part of this
54:35is to draw attention worldwide like if a couple of more kids play some baseball in italy uh and the
54:41sport grows in that part of europe where it's obviously not a big deal then this this has
54:45already been a fantastically successful world baseball classic it's even more because of the
54:51cinderella of it all of italy john might you have three players i think there are three guys on the
54:55team who are from italy yes yes uh uh and again now i'm gonna i'm gonna blank on both cervelli
55:01and
55:01posada mentioned a pitcher they think like aldegary aldegary yeah yeah yeah yeah um uh john i'm gonna
55:09do a hit also i look there's a lot of things to like about francisco lindor uh but it's also
55:15easy
55:15to miss because he you know he's so stylish and um you know like like speaks well like he's one
55:23of the
55:23toughest players in the major leagues like we've seen this guy play with broken fingers
55:27uh a broken toe uh a back where he could hardly straighten out two years ago and yet he played
55:33great down the stretch to help get the mets in the playoffs in 2024 and now way before we thought
55:40he
55:40was going to come back from this handmaid in his left hand february 11th he had surgery and he got
55:46back on the field on sunday and i just went look john these are his games played the last four
55:51years
55:51161 160 152 160 in the 2020 season he went 60 for 60 he played all 60 games in the
55:59covet season in
56:00other years 158 159 158 for cleveland uh francisco lindor is building a great hall of fame candidacy
56:09as a talented talented player and one of the ways he's doing it is with the least appreciated great
56:15skill in this sport which is durability the ability to get on the field so that you your talent can
56:22fully flourish we've covered a lot of guys john you and i over the years who had great talent and
56:27simply could not stay on the field you know like we could laugh right one of the first big players
56:32when we were both young beat writers danny's hardable like people were like oh danny really
56:36hit danny couldn't play like he'd never played he was hurt he was hurt all the time we saw nick
56:41johnson
56:41who was going to be a star but he wasn't he just couldn't play i give so much credit to
56:47lindor who
56:47was a middle infielder as opposed to an iron man like alonzo and i give alonzo a ton of credit
56:52he's
56:52playing first base to play the middle infield and have this sense of responsibility and durability
56:58to always be on the field i give a lot of credit to lindor and to his ability to come
57:04back yet again
57:04from an injury yeah i'm with you amazing when they had the injury injury was discovered right on the
57:10cusp of spring training along with and i'm not ripping them corbin carroll and jex and holiday
57:16same injury ham eight bone now we haven't we're not doctors and we don't have the mri anyway i don't
57:21know maybe there was something different about lindor i don't think so i think i think there's
57:25something different about about lindor in general the guy's a quick healer uh he said all along he
57:31thinks he's going to be able to make it for opening day uh the front office says he is and
57:35at this
57:36point now that he's in games he's going to make it for opening day uh it's amazing and i think
57:40carol
57:41and no no not blaming them in a holiday are i i don't think they are going to make it
57:46for opening
57:47day we shall see carol come back i thought maybe carol was back i don't know i i i don't
57:53i'm not sure
57:53uh i i think holiday isn't going to make it for opening holidays not you think you think carol
57:58might maybe he will but i'm with you i mean last year one thing about the met season last year
58:03that it's hard to believe was that they didn't they didn't get the playoffs with these three guys
58:08three of the toughest guys in the sport right alonzo who might be number one on in toughness
58:13uh obviously lindor right behind him and soto they never miss any games you know and and obviously you
58:19get hurt in baseball right you can hit with the ball you twist something you you know uh it just
58:26it's
58:27still amazing to me but i'm with you give lindor credit i mean he's way ahead of schedule and
58:32i mean i don't know that any schedule even applies to him or alonzo i remember when alonzo
58:36was supposed to be out eight weeks and he was back in two weeks yeah yeah yeah i i i
58:40love that
58:42we talk about tools all the time i and the five traditional tools of which durability is not one
58:47and i think it's probably the most important tool because nothing else matters unless you play
58:52and the guys who are able to get on the field over and over again i just give them
58:56a ton of credit our iron man the guy who never misses a show tommy hogan our producer again we
59:03always thank him for that apple spotify wherever you listen to a podcast please rate and review us
59:09it does help the show the new york post uh sports youtube page give a view you get to see
59:14john's
59:14beautiful background in miami my terrible background in a hotel room in tampa and we're getting close to
59:19the regular season we hope you continue to listen and watch the show with joel sherman and john hayman
59:26you
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