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00:00and this is what drives me crazy we made such a big deal about that dopey home run the 253rd home
00:06run and the yankee he's passing to my show across town and nobody says so and vera and nobody says
00:12a word and the mets basically putting statues up on alonzo and then three months later they're
00:17gonna let him walk because of finances oh come on we've got a special show for you today it's
00:23not special because joel sherman isn't here that's unfortunate he gets uh one week off a year and
00:28this is it uh i'm here john hayman and i will have on christopher mad dog russo we've had on before
00:34he's a big draw he is the funniest guy in broadcasting with total recall i love having
00:40him on i'm really looking forward to it uh chris russo of course famous for the mic and the mad
00:46dog show which is probably the greatest and best known sports talk show ever now he's doing mad
00:53dog radio named after him channel 82 3 to 6 and really looking forward to seeing christopher
01:00mad dog russo talking about the hall of fame talking about dude alonzo what the mets are gonna do that
01:06great world series the potential of a labor work stoppage and everything else coming back at you
01:12with christopher russo it is my distinct pleasure to welcome in my favorite my very favorite broadcaster
01:24i was on the mike and the mad dog show with him for i don't know about a decade or so uh he is the king
01:31of sports talk radio uh the mike and the mad dog show the most popular show of all time don't dispute
01:38that that is true you know that uh now certainly uh doing great uh doing great with mad dog sports
01:44radio channel 82 and that here is christopher mad dog russo how are you doing christopher johnny how
01:50are you big guy things good how's that daughter of yours playing tennis she's still playing what's
01:54going on with that he's okay we got to get her playing you uh yeah that'll be the key she's too good
02:00for me uh she's but playing you i think will be good because you i know you probably work at a country
02:05club and you're probably pretty good at this point i'm decent i did play the other day on a hard court
02:10indoors and i've had some arthritis of my left leg i didn't move as well as i would have liked and i
02:15play mike lupica's kid a lot christopher lupica who's good yeah he's a young kid he's like 37 38 years
02:21of age so i play with him a lot but i play as much as i possibly can not as much in the wintertime not as
02:26much as well you're very youthful so i get you're paying a 37 year old my daughter's 19 so good luck with
02:32that yes all right let's get to baseball because i think that's your favorite sport but you know
02:38every sport you have total recall on everything which amazes me you can tell me what happened we're
02:43about the same age yeah you can remember what happened in the 1971 world series i i have i have
02:48no recall of anything like that i remember reggie's home run in the all-star game that's a bit about it
02:53from 71 but let's start with the world series i mean it was a great world series since you've seen
02:59them all from my probably 1968 on where does this one rank well you know john you had three incredible
03:05games you know game three for 12 innings was a tremendous game one of the great games you're
03:11ever going to see you kind of fell apart after that a little bit because toronto had nobody in their
03:14lineup because they had pinched runs so much so that hurt a little bit the last five or six innings
03:19before the 12 innings you had out to third base at home plate yeah i mean it was really an
03:24thing kershaw getting a big out to get out of that one inning on the three two pitch game six
03:29was tremendous a lot of pressure on la the double play to end the game which is phenomenal betts is
03:35big two-run single and then game seven is you know here's the way i would look at it on november
03:41what was that date the first the second of november whatever the day it was at 12 o'clock at night
03:46game seven on november 2nd on a season that began on march 27th you did not know who was going to win
03:54the world series in game seven at midnight six months in you still did not know who was going to
04:01win the world series and again even off the rojas home run you figure the uh blue jays in the bottom
04:08of the ninth the player to play with ikf the kid makes the great catch and left and left center what a job
04:14by dave roberts then of course even guerrero gets on i mean in the bottom of the uh 11th inning to try
04:20to tie the game up dodgers don't score on the top of the 10th too i mean it really was incredibly
04:26drama filled reminded me a little bit of game six uh seven on six with the reds and the red sox in 75
04:34when perez down three nothing in game seven after they won game lost game six but in game seven he
04:40hit the big home run against bill lee reminded me a little bit about all the home runs the dodgers hit
04:45when they trailed in that game it's the buchette home run but it was one of those games where you
04:51went to bed at night not being able to sleep because you're thinking about all the plays
04:55a big home run for baseball great ratings um everybody at the water cooler i'm sure your water
05:02coolers at work my water coolers at sirius xm that game was discussed for a long period of time
05:08that game is saturday night and on monday at three o'clock i led with the baseball not the nfl
05:1436 hours later it was an all-timer it was an all-timer john couldn't tell you how much i enjoyed it
05:20i went to the first game thank god they had a little bit of everything i feel bad for the blue
05:25jays you know you got to feel bad for the blue feel bad for mattingly uh but it was really a
05:30tremendous it was a big home run for the sport they needed it they had a great postseason i think
05:35there was 53 possible postseason games and they had 46 they had a lot of game threes in
05:41the wild card they had a lot of game fives in the divisional they had a game seven in the nl champ
05:47and the america league championship series and then had a game seven in the world series
05:51so they almost maxed out with the amount of games that they could have in a postseason scenario
05:56they had 46 and they had a great game seven of the world series and they had a great game seven
06:00of the American League Championship Series.
06:02And they had a great five, game five of Seattle, Detroit.
06:06That was a great game, 14-50.
06:07Great game for Dodgers-Phillies.
06:10There was a lot of highlights in this year's postseason.
06:12No question.
06:13Yeah, you mentioned you feel bad for the Blue Jays.
06:15I was actually in that clubhouse.
06:17I went there first before I went on the field to greet the Dodgers.
06:20But I'd never seen a clubhouse that broken up.
06:23I mean, the Yankee World Series against the Diamondbacks 2001,
06:28that Yankee team had already won three straight.
06:31They were in shock.
06:33They were stunned, but they weren't, like, crying.
06:36And this one, and I get it.
06:37I mean, this was a rough one because, I mean,
06:40you mentioned how we didn't know who was going to win at midnight.
06:42I mean, we all thought the Blue Jays were going to win all through it, right,
06:46with a Bichette home run, the lead of 4-1.
06:48Then it was 4-2.
06:49Then it was 4-3.
06:51Miguel Rojas up.
06:53What are they going to do with Otani?
06:55We're not even paying attention to that.
06:56But I've never seen a clubhouse that broken up, and I get it.
07:01So where do you rank that World Series?
07:03What are your top three World Series?
07:04Give me a ranking, and where do you see that Rojas home run?
07:07Where does that rank?
07:09That's right up there.
07:10Who is the go-to guy for you for the media after that Game 7
07:14in the Blue Jays locker room?
07:16Scherzer.
07:16It's Scherzer, and he's coming back.
07:19You know, he's great.
07:20He's sorted the game, so that made some sense.
07:22He wears it on his sleeve, you know,
07:23tell you exactly what he thinks.
07:25You know him.
07:26You've dealt with him.
07:27He was in New York for a while.
07:29You know, if he disagrees, he'll tell you.
07:32You know, he said he's coming back.
07:33He's 41.
07:34We believe him.
07:35He was fantastic.
07:36Mattingly was, you know, he was very disappointed,
07:39but very calm.
07:40He's a pro.
07:41But, you know, it was very broken up, and you can understand why.
07:46They thought they had it.
07:48Right.
07:48I mean, we're ranked with the 88 Dodgers and the 69 Mets for fantastic World Series upsets.
07:57But where does this series rank for you, and where does that Rojas home run rank?
08:01Well, if you look at the series, the Yankee Diamondbacks series was tremendous.
08:05The Brave Twins series in 91, I'm sure you covered that.
08:10That was tremendous.
08:12Now, the one thing, two things about that series, really one thing for both.
08:16Nobody won a road game.
08:18Everybody won the home games.
08:20Right.
08:20To me, when I talk about a series and any of the best of sevens, I want to see a road
08:25team win a game.
08:26And in this particular situation, the Dodgers won three of four in Toronto, and the Blue Jays
08:32won two of three at Dodger Stadium, which, to me, adds an element to it that I like a
08:37lot.
08:38The Game 7 Red Sox-Reds, that's an all-time classic, too.
08:42The one problem I have about that series, historically, and I remember it, you remember it, probably,
08:48two, I was seven, 16 years old, is the idea that the greatest game in that series, in
08:53Game 6, the losing team won.
08:57So the Fisk home run, to me, historically, is a little overrated because the Red Sox didn't
09:02win the World Series.
09:04Right.
09:05It'd be like the Dodgers making that great play to end Game 6, but then losing Game 7.
09:09You kind of forget about the great play they made, the double play at second base.
09:12So when you have a great game like that in the sixth game, you want to see the team that
09:18made the great play win the seventh game.
09:20And then you had Game 3, an all-time classic with Freeman's home run, and the Dodgers won
09:25that, too.
09:26So that's what I like about this World Series, is that the three gigantic moments in this
09:31World Series, plus Game 2 was a big Game 2, with Yamamoto won one top seven.
09:36So I like that aspect of it.
09:38Road team wins, and the big moments that were in this World Series, obviously, look at the
09:44Yankees' Diamondbacks.
09:45Jeter's homer, Tino's homer, Brocious's homer, but the Yankees lost the World Series.
09:52The big moments in this series, Rojas's homer, Hernandez's double play, Freeman's home run,
09:59Will Smith's home runs.
10:00The Dodgers won this series.
10:02So I like that aspect of it a lot.
10:04No, I didn't see it, you know, that 60 World Series.
10:09I've had a lot of people tell me, Ernie Acorsi was a huge Yankee fan, giant ring of honor,
10:14long-time general manager.
10:15I talk to him a lot, and he's a huge baseball fan.
10:19He thought this was the second best Game 7 he's ever seen.
10:22Now, he put the Game 7 Yankees-Pirates first, because that had a lot of back and forth.
10:29With the Mazurowski walk-off, the Giants, the Yankees' trail took the lead, Pirates' trail,
10:36bottom of the eighth, came back.
10:38The Yankees tied it in the ninth, and then the homerun by Mazurowski.
10:41He thought that game was the best game he's ever seen, and the Yankees lost, and he was
10:45a Yankee fan.
10:46So I didn't see it, nor did you, so it's hard to get a gauge there.
10:50But this has got to be, what, top three, top four World Series of all time, and I don't
10:56know if I've seen a better game in a Game 7.
11:00Now, I always thought there, John, that the Yankee-Red Sox game in 78, in Fenway, in my
11:08lifetime, that has always been one of the greatest, it capped the regular season, first to 100.
11:15It sort of symbolized the whole year, Red Sox the big lead, Red Sox the lead in the
11:21playoff game, Dan hits a home run, Yankees come back, take the lead, and then they got
11:25to withstand a Red Sox rally in the bottom of the ninth, eighth.
11:28Same kind of thing happened in the regular season, was symbolized in that game.
11:33So I always thought that was the best game ever, but this is a game that is historically
11:37going to rank top two or three that you and I have ever seen.
11:41You want to put it three, you want to put it two.
11:43It's Dina's choice on that, but it's top two or three games we've ever seen.
11:48And as far as the Rojas home run is concerned, I think the thing about it is the improbability
11:53of it.
11:54It's Miguel Rojas.
11:56I mean, I can, you know, we had Roger Davis, there have been a few like that, but.
12:02They have.
12:02Now, remember the Cubs, the Indians lost.
12:06So the Davis home run out of Chapman was incredible, an incredible moment, but the Indians lost that
12:12game.
12:13Right.
12:13You're right.
12:14Rojas won the game.
12:15He did.
12:16Essentially.
12:16So that's why I would put this one better.
12:18That's a good one.
12:19I hadn't thought of Roger Davis.
12:20I was in a ballpark for that.
12:21The whole world thought that, look at this, the Guardians are finally going to win a World
12:25Series and beat the Cubs who hadn't won them for a hundred years.
12:28But this Rojas home run was as good as you're ever going to see.
12:31And I tell you, I'm mad at Hoffman.
12:33Do you have the three, yeah, with Otani up next, throw a 3-2 fastball, 97, 98 miles
12:39an hour, let him hit it.
12:40Don't throw a slider there where if you leave it over the middle of the plate, he might hit
12:44the ball out of the ballpark.
12:45That pitch selection really bothered me by Hoffman in the top of the ninth.
12:50Yeah.
12:51I'm with you.
12:51Amazing recall on everything.
12:53A 60 World Series.
12:54No, I didn't see that.
12:55I'm with you right just before I was born, but looking at it, all routes by the Yankees
13:03three games, and then they lost four close games.
13:07So that's pretty spectacular.
13:08I'm with you.
13:0991 World Series to me until this one was the winner.
13:13For me, this one might be the winner.
13:15Baseball is doing great right now.
13:17What do you think about all this talk about in a year we're going to have a work stoppage
13:20now?
13:21Anyway, shouldn't we be celebrating baseball and not worrying about a work stoppage?
13:27100%.
13:27Listen, I think I have confidence in Manford.
13:33He's been in charge here since 95.
13:37They have never had a work.
13:39They have never lost games.
13:40They've had some stoppages, obviously, with lockouts and all.
13:43But they have never played less than 162.
13:46So you got to give him credit for that.
13:48Other than the pandemic, right.
13:50Other than the pandemic, right.
13:51I can't count the pandemic, right.
13:53Other than the strike.
13:54I mean, they may have started a little later than they could have.
13:56But other than that, he's never lost games.
14:00I don't think he wants to be the commissioner, you know, with a stellar career that he's had
14:05in labor law.
14:06I don't think he wants to go out.
14:08And he's going to go out in 29.
14:10I don't think he wants to go out a couple of years before he retires with a major work
14:15stoppage on his hands.
14:16So I think there'd be a lot of saddle, you know, there'd be a lot of, you know, saber
14:22rattling.
14:22I definitely think that's the case.
14:24I think next winter will be a mess.
14:27I think you and me, I'll be talking about it.
14:29You'll be writing about it.
14:30I think, you know, you'll probably miss summer spring training.
14:34You know, who knows when that deadline is probably be around March 10th, being over.
14:38They can't start on March 15th.
14:39But I think at the end of the day, I still believe that both sides realize, you know,
14:45we got something good going here.
14:46Let's figure out the competitive aspect of the sport and let's see if we can make this
14:50work.
14:51So I do think, I think it will be touch and go.
14:55And I understand the small market teams, the Dodgers winning all the time.
14:58I get that.
14:59You know, 79% of the teams in the last 30 years who have won a World Series are big
15:05market teams.
15:05And 80% of them will make the playoffs to big market teams.
15:09So I think they'd like to figure that out.
15:12But I don't know how you feel about it, John.
15:14I do think that at the end of the day, there will not be missed games in 2027.
15:20I hope not.
15:21I'm with you.
15:21I know Manfred hasn't lost any games in 30 years.
15:24So he's got a good record going in.
15:26So feel good about that.
15:28I think we should just cut to the chase and not just give up the idea of the cap.
15:33And then the union give up the idea of changing a free agency from six games, six years to
15:38five.
15:39And that's not going to happen.
15:40I mean, these certain things are non-starters.
15:43Let's just keep where we're going with what we have right now and move on from there.
15:47But it's not going to be as easy as I make it.
15:50It will be very difficult.
15:52I think it'll be harder than the one a few years ago when that was a major problem.
15:55This will be a harder one than that.
15:56So, but I have confidence.
15:59I do have confidence.
16:01Now, listen, you know, Tony Clark, who knows, his right-hand man there, who knows?
16:05They got this FBI investigation going on right now.
16:08Who knows how that works itself out?
16:10But at the end of the day, I do think that both sides want to play the 162.
16:16And I think you'll see a season being played.
16:18I really do.
16:18That's the way I feel about it.
16:20Well, I feel better about it now.
16:21Now we have an offseason being played.
16:23And what are your thoughts going into this offseason?
16:26We have no Otani.
16:28We have no Juan Soto.
16:30We're not going to have a record deal.
16:31But we have Kyle Tucker and people talking about a $500 million deal or $400 million deal.
16:37We have Pete Alonso out there as a free agent again, redoing it.
16:41Bregman.
16:42So we have some very good free agents.
16:45What are you expecting this winter?
16:48Well, you're the expert on that, much better than me with how you follow it.
16:52But I think the big story to me, you know, Tucker will go somewhere.
16:56Bichette, see what the Blue Jays do with him.
16:58Bellinger, of course, with the Mets.
17:00To me, I think the most interesting thing is...
17:03Bellinger, Yankees, or Mets.
17:05Yeah, Yankees and Mets, right.
17:05But I think the big thing to me is going to be what are the Tigers going to do with Scooble?
17:10You wrote a lot about it last week at the GM meetings.
17:12I read you every day.
17:14And I don't know.
17:15The Tigers are in a very tricky spot.
17:17They have been burned with big contracts.
17:19You know, they gave Zimmerman $100 million.
17:21He was a mess.
17:22They gave Prince Fielder $225 million.
17:25It was one of the worst contracts.
17:26He turned out to do nothing for them.
17:28So the Illich family has been somewhat smacked around with these three.
17:33And that's the way it goes.
17:33Sometimes you're going to get them right.
17:35Sometimes you're going to get them wrong.
17:36When they have splurged, at times they've gotten them wrong.
17:39He doesn't want to spend as much money.
17:41He knows he's in a division where he doesn't have to.
17:43And they can still win the division.
17:45But I think the Scooble thing, to me, is really interesting, John.
17:49They're never going to re-sign him.
17:51They're not going to pay him $330 million.
17:54You know, I could see the Dodgers doing it.
17:56I can see the Mets doing it.
17:58Do you trade him or not trade him?
18:00It's a very – they're not going to get a lot for him at the deadline.
18:03They're going to be in a pennant race anyway, so they can't trade him.
18:05Not division.
18:06They're going to be in a pennant race.
18:07Do you lose him for draft picks or do you see if you can move him now?
18:11You only can move him to a couple of teams because, you know,
18:13why would you give up a lot to get him if you don't have a chance to re-sign him?
18:17So, you know, that leaves the Dodgers, Mets, you know, those kind of teams.
18:21But I think that's a very interesting question.
18:23Free agents are going to be free agents.
18:25We'll find out.
18:25You know, Bregman, as you mentioned,
18:27we'll follow that as it goes along.
18:31But what the Tigers do, and it's a very tough call,
18:34and you wrote a lot about it.
18:35You've been on top of it.
18:36What the Tigers do with him is going to be – and I was down on him in game five
18:42against Seattle.
18:43You cannot take yourself out of that game after 98 pitches.
18:46It's game five.
18:48I know he's a free agent to be.
18:49He's pitching for his life and the team's life.
18:53He's got a lead in the game.
18:54He takes himself out.
18:56And Finnegan comes in and immediately gives up the tying run in the seventh inning.
19:00And the Tigers lose the game in the 14th inning.
19:02That, to me, if you're Scoobo, you've got to hand the board to your clothes in the ninth inning.
19:06That's me.
19:07That's old school.
19:09That's Koufax.
19:10That's me.
19:11I know Yamamoto's got his contract signed.
19:13So for him, if he pitches a lot, he knows he's going to get his 320 million, and Scoobo doesn't know that.
19:18So I do understand the economic of it, but to me, you have to pitch more than six innings of that kind of game.
19:26But I know he's great, and I know the Tigers have a very interesting call.
19:30So that's question number one for me, what's going to happen with Scoobo.
19:33You would have the answer to that a lot better than me.
19:35Go ahead.
19:35Well, it's interesting you brought up Koufax, and he's arguably the greatest pitcher of the last, I don't know, 75 years or whatever.
19:41You can make a case for Randy Johnson or Kershaw or some others, but let's not forget his career did end at age 20, right?
19:50And Scoobo is 28 at this point.
19:53It's kind of a repeat for A.J. Hinch, right?
19:56He was very careful with Cole as a free agent.
20:00You know, they were a playoff team.
20:02They almost won the World Series.
20:04Cole then became a free agent and left.
20:07And so we shall see.
20:09I think I'm with you.
20:12There's no chance they're going to be able to resign him, or very little chance.
20:15It's interesting you brought up the Tiger history.
20:17Miguel Cabrera is another one they gave big bucks to, not as a free agent.
20:21Yeah, that was a mistake.
20:22You know, they shouldn't have done that, right?
20:24Yeah, they wanted to keep him, but it ended up being too much.
20:26They did well with Maglio Ordonez and Pudge Rodriguez.
20:29It wasn't quite the same amount of money.
20:31What would you do?
20:32What would you do?
20:33I would have to trade him.
20:34You would trade him.
20:35Wow.
20:35Now, the problem with it is that fan base there is going to go crazy.
20:40You know, that's a big market, Detroit.
20:41It's supposed to be.
20:42And these are the Tigers.
20:43The English D, Ty Cobb, going back 150 years.
20:47This is a big franchise.
20:48You know, Tiger Stadium, you know that.
20:50They're one of the originals, this franchise.
20:54And, you know, to run them like to run the Pirates is a little rough.
20:58I've got a nice ballpark.
20:59It's a big city.
21:00The Lions are good.
21:01The Pistons are good.
21:02The Red Wings have won a million championships.
21:05Same family.
21:06You hate to see it.
21:07But if you're not going to sign them, and they're not going to, and you're going to get more value from them now than you're going to get them, they're not going to trade them at the deadline because they're going to be in a pent-a-race.
21:18Who's going to run away and hide in the American League Central?
21:21Nobody.
21:22What, the Twins are going to have a 10-game lead?
21:25So the Tigers are going to?
21:26No.
21:27So as a result, if you're going to, now, listen, you want to tell me that next year you're going to win a championship, and then you let him, and then he leaves?
21:33It puts you in a tricky spot.
21:35I think I would, it's a tough, listen, I'm not saying it's an easy decision.
21:40And I don't think they will.
21:41You would know better than me if they will or they won't.
21:43But I can, if they do, I can certainly understand it.
21:46I have some Tiger fans who call me in my little show there, and I've been surprised.
21:52A lot of them don't have a problem if the franchise trades them, which I'm surprised about.
21:57Well, I think they're going to investigate it, and ultimately I'll be surprised if they trade them.
22:01I'm not going to be shocked.
22:02We've seen big players traded before.
22:05He only has one year to go.
22:06As you mentioned, it is a tough and interesting call.
22:09Before we move on to the Hall of Fame, we're going to take a little break after this, but move on and talk about the Hall of Fame and a couple other things.
22:15You are a New Yorker, like myself, a Long Islander, Mets.
22:21Nobody saw this coming.
22:22I think last time you were on the show, you said that there was no way the Reds were going to beat them out.
22:28I felt the same.
22:30Nobody thought this could happen.
22:32It did happen.
22:33What do the Mets need to do?
22:35Certainly you've got Alonzo and Diaz who've opted out.
22:38What do you do with them, and what else do you do to ensure this does not happen again?
22:42Because this was 83 wins was a disaster for this team.
22:46Yeah, that's a very good question.
22:50I think they're going to keep Diaz.
22:52I can't see them letting – I know Diaz was quoted 50-50 a coin flip this week, but I think – I don't see Cohen letting Diaz go.
23:01And, you know, there's going to come a point where Cohen's going to have to step in with Alonzo.
23:06And this is what drives me crazy.
23:08We made such a big deal about that dopey home run, the 253rd home run, and the Yankees, he's passing DiMaggio across town, and nobody says – and Bera, and nobody says a word.
23:20And the Mets basically putting statues up on Alonzo.
23:23And then three months later, they're going to let him walk because of finances?
23:26Oh, come on.
23:27I mean, if it was that big a deal to home run, to celebrate it the next day, well, then you've got to make them a lifetime Mets.
23:33So I think probably at the end of the day, both will come back.
23:36You know better than me, especially with the Alonzo one.
23:40But the Mets need a big pitcher.
23:42I mean, you know, I mean, they tried to get by for two years with the, you know, underachieving pitcher with the pitching coach and catch a little lightning in a bottle.
23:52It worked the first year with Minaya, Quintana.
23:56It didn't work last year.
23:57And I was down on the Mets for firing their whole coaching staff.
24:01That's weak.
24:02I mean, they fired every – I mean, they fired – you know, Glenn Sherlock takes a walk.
24:07I'm sure they wanted him out.
24:08Obviously, the pitching coach goes.
24:10I mean, the whole coaching staff departs.
24:12I mean, really?
24:13So we're going to make them the scapegoats here for the fact that they had Frankie Montas.
24:17They gave him $34 million.
24:19I don't think they're going to make that mistake again.
24:21They do have McLean there.
24:24The other kid – the other kid who's always hurt, they're going to have to hope for him.
24:30Minaya will come back.
24:32But they need a big pitcher.
24:33Where they get one, is there a free agent pitcher that we don't know – that I don't need to know about?
24:38Is there a big free agent pitcher?
24:40Well, there are several that are very good.
24:42Give me one.
24:43I don't know if there's anybody – I mean, Frambo Valdez is out there.
24:46Dylan Cease.
24:47There's Imai from Japan, who neither of us have ever really seen in person, but he's ranked up there with those two.
24:53You've got Andrew Suarez.
24:55You've got a list of a lot of number two-type starters, I think, more than any real –
25:00Yeah, I wouldn't go near Dylan Cease.
25:01I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.
25:03I would not – in a big game.
25:05I would not go near Dylan Cease.
25:09They need a big – and there's pressure on Stearns because he likes to run a team with a sort of a mid-market mentality,
25:16yet he's got an owner who's like George Steinbrenner.
25:18So the Mets are trying to split the baby in half, run the team economically properly,
25:24but they have an owner who wants to have another Rembrandt in his bathroom.
25:29So it makes it a very tricky line you've got to walk, whether you go economical and play it like the Boers play it,
25:38or you go all in and sign as many big players as you possibly can,
25:42and hopefully you hit on enough of them when you win some championships.
25:45It's a tricky call there.
25:46It really is.
25:46Yeah, I mean, this is – you're exactly right, but this isn't the Brewers.
25:51This is a big city.
25:52I think the fans are with the owner on this one, and particularly –
25:55I agree.
25:56I agree.
25:56Very disappointing season.
25:58I think that, you know, whether David Stearns wants to play long-term or not,
26:03I think that's kind of off the table at this point.
26:05And I'm with you on Diaz and Alonso.
26:08I don't see how they go.
26:10Sure, in free agency, anything can happen.
26:12I know he said 50-50.
26:14I think they're already willing to do an extra year.
26:17You know, publicly it's come out that he would like three extra years.
26:20I think they'll probably compromise and give him the two years extra, give him an $80 million for four, something like that.
26:26Alonso, it's going to be harder to know exactly where the money's going with him.
26:31I certainly will do better than he did last time.
26:34No qualifying offer.
26:35Had a much better overall season.
26:37He's now the all-time home run champion.
26:40I know it's not Babe Ruth, but he is for the Mets.
26:43So I think they started off very, very well.
26:47They're very productive, very positive meeting.
26:49I think that there's a good chance they put their best foot forward and do what they can to keep Alonso as well.
26:56Do you think the Mets call the Tigers and see if they can get Scoobo?
27:02I'm sure there's a lot of teams calling.
27:04The question is, are they going to pick up the phone?
27:06You know, I think Detroit's going to listen.
27:08You know, I think they're not afraid to listen and have it out there that, you know, they're listening.
27:14But ultimately, it's difficult because you're right about that division, right?
27:18They're the favorite going in.
27:20They've made the playoffs two years in a row.
27:23I'm going to be surprised if they try.
27:25I'm not going to be shocked.
27:26I'll be surprised if they do trade him.
27:28But that is the number one pitcher, right?
27:30These free agent pitchers are good.
27:32I think Cease, I get what you're saying, but he is the only pitcher who's struck out 200 batters five straight years.
27:39He's very durable.
27:40And I think teams appreciate that now, particularly.
27:43Here's what I want the people who want Cease on their team who are in the postseason.
27:47Go watch a couple games last year against the Dodgers.
27:50Start with game four, two games to one up against the Dodger bullpen.
27:54And he started that game and got lit up.
27:56He couldn't get out of the fourth or fifth inning against the Cubs in a scenario.
28:01Was that game three this year in Wrigley Field?
28:03I'd be careful.
28:04I would be careful.
28:05I just don't trust him in a big game.
28:07And if you're going to sign him, you want him in pitching in big games.
28:10I mean, I don't care what he does in June.
28:12I don't care if he no hits the Nationals.
28:13I'm not interested.
28:15I'm interested in what they do in September and October when the money's on the line.
28:19That's where Yamamoto showed me a lot.
28:21I don't care if Yamamoto wins eight games.
28:23Look what he did.
28:24I mean, look what Yamamoto did.
28:26The guy, the son of a gun.
28:27He pitched game two.
28:28He pitched game six.
28:29He pitched game seven.
28:30That's what the great, and he bounced back after game two against, game three against the Phillies.
28:35He pitched great against Milwaukee.
28:37That's what I want my pitchers.
28:38I'm going to pay him three million dollars.
28:40That's what they're getting paid for.
28:42The seven or eight postseason starts where I need him to go eight, nine innings to help me win a championship.
28:48That's what I need, and I don't trust Seas to do that.
28:51That's why I asked you back on the show, and that's why you're the one who draws the biggest audience.
28:58Don't give me that.
28:59That's an easy one now.
29:00The school ball thing is a tough call because you're right.
29:02They know with school ball, they got a good chance to be in October, and then all bets are off.
29:08They could win it.
29:09I'm just going to say, I was actually covering that series where he actually volunteered to pitch that game four on short rest.
29:17So I'm going to get, even though he got lit up and was facing a bullpen game by the Dodgers, and they lost seven to nothing, I was actually there, and he did volunteer.
29:26They should have told him, no, we'll give you regular rest, and you've still got game five.
29:30To me, I know we've seen guys do this before.
29:33Josh Beckett, it worked out.
29:35That short rest is not a great idea.
29:36But he also was bad earlier in that series in game one.
29:39He got lit up.
29:40Let's not forget that either.
29:41Fair enough.
29:42You're good.
29:43This is what I, I knew you were dangerous.
29:44It's that total recall that I don't know, even though I was at the series.
29:47No, you, you, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
29:50You got my, I just scream at the top of my lungs.
29:53You talk to me, people.
29:54You talk to these folks.
29:56I don't.
29:57You talk to them.
29:58Well, you don't miss a beat, and you don't forget a thing.
30:02It's amazing.
30:02All right.
30:03It's great.
30:04You've been amazing.
30:05We're going to bring you back in a few minutes here to talk about the Hall of Fame, which is
30:10a specialty of yours, and do a hit or an error.
30:13I'm interested to see how you go with that.
30:15Joel and I specialize in errors more than hits, but we'll see how you do.
30:19We'll be right back on the show with Mad Dog Russo and John Heyman.
30:24We're back with Mad Dog Russo, and we're going to talk about one of his specialties, the
30:33Hall of Fame.
30:34We've got two ballots now.
30:35We have the regular ballot where the guys wait five years or they're still on the ballot
30:39after not being voted in for a few years.
30:41We've got some good players on that, whether it be Beltran or Andrew Jones.
30:45The first-timers, not a huge number of real honest-to-goodness Hall of Fame candidates.
30:52We're going to start with the veterans ballot, which includes these eight guys, and I don't
30:57have total recall like Chris, so I'm going to read it.
31:00Mattingly, Murphy, Delgado, Kent, Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, and Valenzuela.
31:06I think everyone can vote for three.
31:09I'm not on the committee, but can you pick three out there you think should be in the
31:13Hall of Fame?
31:14Yeah, I would.
31:16I'm going to leave Bonds and Clemens out for the reasons that we know.
31:20I'm going to be consistent with that.
31:21I know they were great Hall of Famers prior to steroids, but I'm going to be consistent
31:25with that.
31:26And I don't think they have a chance to get in because I don't think the committee wants
31:30to do that and get involved in that kind of controversy.
31:33So I don't think they're going to get the votes.
31:36The one guy to me that I cannot understand is Kent.
31:38I've gone through this a thousand times.
31:40He hit 290 in his career.
31:42He's got 380 home runs, 70 home runs, whatever that number is.
31:46He's got the most home runs of any second baseman in the sport.
31:49He's got multiple.
31:50It's either seven or eight hundred RBI seasons.
31:55He won an MVP, which is something else that I distinguish.
31:59And I know the metrics and I know everybody who says, well, his defensive
32:03metrics, you're talking to me now.
32:05And I watched every game that he played for the Giants from 1997, which is the guts of
32:10his career, through 2002.
32:13So that's 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001.
32:17That is six years.
32:19I sat up here at three o'clock in the morning watching Giant games on DirecTV.
32:24I am telling you right now, I can't recall any games where I said, boy, his defense killed
32:30us in this game.
32:31Wow.
32:31He couldn't reach that ball.
32:32His range stinks.
32:34I don't recall it.
32:35I mean, the idea that somehow, well, they were, and I saw the games.
32:38They didn't.
32:39The people who say this, they didn't stay up at two o'clock in the morning watching Giant
32:42games on the West Coast.
32:44I did.
32:44You know, who flew out to San Francisco to see the games against the Marlins in the post
32:49season in 97, when he had two home runs in game three, and we got beat because Devon
32:54White hit a grand slam.
32:56Who went to San Francisco for the first two games of the World Series with the Angels.
33:01who went to, who saw the Mets series and saw him get the only hit against Bobby Jones in
33:07game four when we got one hit down two games to one.
33:10I was at all these games and watched them.
33:12So the idea that his defense could keep him out of the Hall of Fame is nonsense.
33:17He won an MVP legitimately.
33:19He deserved that over Bonds in 2000.
33:22He's a better player than Biggio.
33:24I know Biggio's got the 3,000 hits, but he's a better player than Biggio.
33:27I know he played a couple of positions.
33:30I understand.
33:31But to me, Kent's a Hall of Famer.
33:32Now, Mattingly to me, and I love Don.
33:35He's only had five great years, so I wouldn't put him in the Hall of Fame.
33:39Murphy, the years are not as consistent.
33:42I know he's got the two MVPs, and I love Dale Murphy.
33:45He's got six or seven Hall of Fame years.
33:48I like to see between eight and ten.
33:50So I wouldn't put him in.
33:53Clemens and Bonds, you mentioned.
33:55I got to look at Delgado a little more carefully.
33:59He's a prolific home run hitter.
34:01You know, he's a DH, if that bothers you.
34:05But, boy, he hit, what, 40 homers a year for seven or eight years there, John?
34:08You would know better than me.
34:09He might have right in front of you.
34:11He's a great home run hitter.
34:139.29 OPS in his career.
34:15So, I mean, he was knocked off the ballot.
34:17I'm not in favor of knocking anyone off the ballot,
34:19because we've knocked people off the ballot like Keith Hernandez.
34:21I mean, there's a long list.
34:23That's the Richie, Dick Allen, who are certainly worthy of more than one or two years of consideration.
34:30So I'm glad that he's on this, Delgado.
34:33Yeah, I mean, you convinced me on Kent.
34:36I didn't vote for him at the beginning.
34:38I've heard you discuss it.
34:39You are the expert on the Giants.
34:41I would put Kent in.
34:43I did always vote for Mattingly and Murphy.
34:45And, again, you know, people say, oh, the writers, they pick the guys they like.
34:49They won't vote for the guys they don't like.
34:51Look, Jeff Kent was a pain in the, you know what?
34:54I'm voting for him.
34:55I voted for Curt Schilling every year, but won that one year that he had that really bad tweet.
34:59I deferred that year, but otherwise felt that Schilling was a Hall of Famer.
35:04I kind of split the baby on Bonds and Clemens.
35:06I was convinced Bonds was a Hall of Famer before the steroids.
35:09I agree.
35:10Clemens is a little more borderline for me, but I think he probably was, but probably doesn't do it for me.
35:15So I did vote for Bonds.
35:17I am with you.
35:18I don't think they can put Bonds and Clemens in and reject these guys who only brought honor to the game,
35:23even if they weren't the players that Bonds and Clemens—
35:26What do you do with Sheffield?
35:27He's got 512 home runs, but he's got the steroid link.
35:30What do you do with him?
35:31He's got a steroid link.
35:32I mean, I'd much rather see Bonds or Clemens go in.
35:35They're all-time greats.
35:36To me, Sheffield did the steroids.
35:38I don't care what he says.
35:40He sent cash to Balco.
35:42You don't send cash to—I didn't send any cash to Victor Conte.
35:45Did you send it?
35:46You didn't send any cash to him, right?
35:47So, I mean, he's as guilty to me as Bonds or Clemens is.
35:50It just weren't as effective for him.
35:52So I'm not even sure.
35:53I mean, I think they do a good job.
35:55I like these names generally.
35:56I don't think Sheffield should be on this list.
35:59I would rather have seen a Johan Santana or somebody else or Dwight Evans,
36:03Lou Whitaker, somebody else who only brought honor to the game.
36:07I never voted—
36:08Who do you think they're going to put in?
36:10I think it's going to be Mattingly and Murphy who get in.
36:13I do.
36:13I think they're going to look at the character and all that.
36:16And Mattingly was a tremendous player for five, six years.
36:20And who doesn't like Donnie?
36:21And he's a great first baseman.
36:23But the back cost him.
36:24And to make a long story short, yeah, you see those two are going to get in,
36:28not Kent.
36:29Right, right.
36:31Yeah, I think that's probably right.
36:33I'm more of a peak guy.
36:34So I like Mattingly and Murphy.
36:36I get it.
36:36You're a little tougher.
36:37You're looking at the whole career.
36:39I understand.
36:40What do you think about Valenzuela?
36:42The last one I'm going to ask you about, it's an interesting one,
36:44because it is called the Hall of Fame.
36:46He had that amazing season that he dominated.
36:50And it was a great big game and a great big game pitcher.
36:55Absolutely.
36:56I mean, he's an interesting case.
36:58I wouldn't be opposed.
36:59I really wouldn't.
37:00And Dusty Baker told me a story once, and you'll like this one on Fernando.
37:04I did him on the 93 Giants about two years ago.
37:07He told me this is that the Dodgers players begged Lasorda in the playoff game
37:14against Houston to settle the division in 80.
37:16Remember, the Ashfields went to LA three-game lead.
37:19Dodgers swept them to tie at the end of the year.
37:22They had to play a playoff game to see who would play the Phillies.
37:24Joe Niquo pitched for Houston, and the Dodger players begged Lasorda
37:29to start Fernando, who had come up in September.
37:33Lasorda didn't do it.
37:34He started Dave Goltz instead, and Goltz got bombed.
37:38And that is why Dusty went to Solomon Torres in the last game of 93
37:44instead of Scott Sanderson,
37:46because he thought that Torres had that Fernando thing in him,
37:52and he started Solomon Torres, who got bombed and got knocked out in the third inning.
37:56But because Lasorda went Goltz instead of Fernando, and he should have gone Fernando,
38:01Dusty said, well, I said Fernando then.
38:03Let me go to the young pitcher now.
38:05So it didn't work for him, and it didn't work for Lasorda.
38:07And they both went the same thing.
38:08One went the veteran, and one went the young pitcher.
38:11So Fernando was a great big-game pitcher.
38:14You remember a game.
38:15It's one of the great games you've ever seen as far as guts are concerned.
38:19How about game three against the Yankees in the 81 World Series?
38:22When he won 5-4, when he won 5-4, what a performance that was.
38:26When he was – Dodgers were down 2-0.
38:28He got banged around, and he had the guts to throw about 160 pitches, whatever it was.
38:33It went nine innings.
38:35I love Fernando.
38:36I'm with you.
38:37I don't think he's a Hall of Famer.
38:39But if you voted for him, maybe he gets a little bump because of his passing.
38:44Who knows?
38:45If you vote for him, I wouldn't have a major – if he gets in, I wouldn't have a major problem with it.
38:50Yeah, I knew you'd be good on the Hall of Fame.
38:52You are tough.
38:53You're a tough grader, but you're fair with your criteria.
38:59So I appreciate that.
39:01And it's interesting.
39:01You don't think Kent's going to get in?
39:03I'm interested.
39:03That's interesting.
39:04Well, my guess would be Mattingly and Murphy.
39:06It seems to be some buzzer.
39:07I don't even know who's on the committee, so I don't know where the buzz is coming from.
39:11Well, it's 16 guys.
39:13You've got to get 12 votes.
39:14Is that what it is?
39:15Yes.
39:16Right.
39:16And, you know, I like the fact they have the committee.
39:21Parker got in, who I always voted for.
39:23McGriff got in, who I always voted for.
39:25Obviously, they have a couple.
39:27Bad ones – not bad, but, you know.
39:28Well, Howard Baines is the one.
39:30I don't – you know, you said it.
39:32But occasionally, somebody who's got a good personal relationship with somebody on the committee will get a bump.
39:39Well, Reinsdorf and Tony got Baines in.
39:42They were on the committee the year they got in, and I screamed about that at the winter meetings.
39:46I was on the MLB network, and they walked right by the high heat set, and they gave me the worst day of your looks.
39:51Because I screamed about Baines.
39:53But everybody knows that Baines is not what they wanted.
39:55They got him in.
39:56They took a little bit of a medicine from you.
39:59And you.
40:00You didn't like it either.
40:01You didn't like it either.
40:01Don't let me be the small guy.
40:03You didn't like it either.
40:04I didn't vote for Harold Baines.
40:05Then again, I didn't vote for Keith Hernandez, and I'm advocating for him now.
40:08But I didn't vote for Harold Baines.
40:10I think he's below the border, but he's a better kid.
40:12It's better than we give him credit for.
40:14I'll buy that.
40:15I'll buy that.
40:15He had 2,800 hits.
40:17You know, you and I didn't get 2,800.
40:19You got to give him some credit for that.
40:20So anyway, I enjoyed that Hall of Fame talk with Christopher Russo.
40:23We're going next to hit or error, a regular spot on the show with John Heyman, Joel Sherman, who's not here today, and Christopher Russo.
41:02Baseball should shut down after the winter meetings.
41:06But you need an offseason in all sports.
41:09Football, free agency is in March.
41:12You get ready for the draft, but at least you have three months.
41:15You got nothing going on.
41:16And then when training camp starts in August, everybody's all revved up with football.
41:20NBA, the finals, the NBA free agency is July 1st.
41:25They get these things done in three days, and then they go away for a couple of months, three months,
41:30until they open up camp in late September.
41:33Baseball needs to sign.
41:35When you're at the winter meetings in Orlando, breaking stories with all your little buddies there, Rosenthal and what have you,
41:42by the time that week ends, we should not hear anything about baseball until the first day of spring training and after the Super Bowl.
41:50Give the sport a couple of months to sort of go away.
41:55It whets everybody's appetite.
41:57Free agent decisions into spring training.
42:01Harper and Machado a few years ago.
42:03Waiting until late January to get these guys signed.
42:06And, you know, news, the dribs and the dribs and the, what's the word?
42:12The dribs?
42:13The dribs and the, whatever the word is with dribs.
42:16What's it?
42:17Dabs?
42:17Dabs.
42:18Yeah.
42:18The dribs and dabs of information.
42:21You know, you get a day, oh, he's going to go here.
42:22Then a week later, he's going to go there.
42:24And it's January 20th, and it's in the NFL playoffs.
42:27I don't want to hear about baseball right now.
42:30Let me hear about baseball when the football is over February 15th.
42:34Okay.
42:34We're having to go spring training.
42:36Season starts in four weeks.
42:37We know who's on what team.
42:39Everybody is signed.
42:40We're going to wait until, you know, the first day of spring training to see what free agent signs player.
42:44I think they're never going to do it.
42:46I understand that.
42:47This is Pollyanna.
42:48I get it.
42:49The union would never agree because they don't want a timeline.
42:51They think that puts the pressure on the player association to get these guys signed.
42:55At the end of the day, deadline helps the owners.
42:57I get it.
42:58But if you're looking at it from a fan's perspective, to close up shop of the sport two weeks before Christmas and to disappear for three months and, say, open up on February 20th, that would be good for the sport.
43:12That really would.
43:12That's the hit error for me.
43:14All right.
43:14Well, I mean, you summarized that perfectly.
43:16I'm going to give my hit.
43:17I'm going to go off the board here and give my hit to you for that because I'm with you 100%.
43:21You're right.
43:22It is never going to happen.
43:24The union will never go for it.
43:25You're right.
43:26The deadline would help the management side, but it would certainly help not only me, you know, the fans.
43:34You'll get a month off, Rich.
43:36You'll get the month of January off for Pollyanna.
43:38I'm with you.
43:39You get a hit.
43:40You get a hit for coming on this show, for going about 20 minutes over time after I told you it'd be 20 minutes and going on with me for 40 minutes.
43:47You get a hit for that.
43:48And I agree with you.
43:50I'd like to see that deadline.
43:52Like I said, it's never going to happen.
43:53And certainly I kind of agree that it would be an advantage to the management, so they're not going to agree to it.
43:59But anyway, that was a great suggestion.
44:04I love it.
44:04Very good.
44:05Thank you so much for coming.
44:06All right, Johnny.
44:06You keep it going.
44:07I'll read you all the time, pal.
44:08Keep it going.
44:08All right.
44:09I watch you all the time on Channel 82, 3 to 6.
44:13Is that right?
44:14That is correct.
44:15Yes, 82, 3 to 6.
44:16Be out here in a little bit.
44:17Looking forward to it.
44:18Sports talk.
44:19Still fun.
44:20Still fun.
44:21Well, you're the best.
44:22So thank you to Mad Dog.
44:23Thank you to Tommy Hogan, our great, great producer.
44:26Get the show on Apple.
44:28Get it on Spotify, a New York Post YouTube page.
44:32Read NewYorkPost.com or even pick up a newspaper like I do.
44:35I go out and I was in Las Vegas.
44:37It took me, you know, two miles on the strip to find a newspaper.
44:41But go ahead and do that if you can.
44:43We'll be back at you next week.
44:44Maybe Joel Sherman will even be back with me.
44:46And it's been my pleasure.
44:48And thanks again to Mad Dog.
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