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00:00This program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:38Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
00:45Being a salesman had its challenges, but the real challenge was making out the receipt.
00:52I knew one day it will catch up with me.
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01:46Sports in Trinidad and Tobago is facing its darkest hour.
01:51Many have actually lost hope.
01:54The fearless one, Andre Arrobatista saying it is not in his blood.
01:59So he is not giving up on you.
02:03You the people to stand by sports and to stand tall.
02:07It can only get better if we wanted to and work together.
02:13Not apart in sports in 2026.
02:16Answer that unless you want the blood of sports on your hands.
02:22It isn't in my blood.
02:24iSports with Andre Arrobatista.
02:27Thursday, 625 PM.
02:29It isn't in my blood.
02:31And Saturday, 615 PM on i95.5 FM.
02:44lUE
02:45Put all my make up
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02:54Remember the times I could only cherish
03:23Oh, oh, oh, I gotta do what I gotta do.
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03:37Human trafficking is a serious crime.
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03:42A message from the Counter-Trafficking Unit of the Ministry of National Security.
03:59Good evening, Trinidad and Tobago international audience, and of course, our brothers and sisters in Grenada.
04:05This is Beyond the Tape, and I am Whitney Husbands.
04:08Now, we get ready for the big day, which is tomorrow, the 17th, the end of the SOE.
04:13Many persons are excited for it.
04:15Other persons are still not aware that we are coming to the end of the SOE.
04:19But nonetheless, we just want to make sure that you know what it's taking place.
04:23Now, it's smack in the middle of the week, and it means only one thing.
04:26That means we get ready for Legally Speaking Wednesdays,
04:29and the gentleman who is always willing to guide us when it comes to the laws of the land of
04:33Trinidad and Tobago.
04:34He's our attorney at law, and also the director of policy and community support at the Ministry of Homeland Security.
04:41We have Mr. Ali here with us. Good evening to you, sir.
04:43Good evening to you, Whitney. How are you this afternoon?
04:45I'm good to know. I'm alive and well. Thank God for that.
04:47So, I am grateful to be here, because we see how the world is going.
04:53What a beautiful way to say it. Happy and grateful to be here.
04:56You're here, yes.
04:57As we speak, I'm sure if we traverse the world, many may not have had the opportunity to say that
05:01you're here.
05:02And we're still in street, street, TNT.
05:04Of course, most certainly.
05:05Yes.
05:05So, thank you very much for your introduction, your partnership this afternoon.
05:09Keep smiling, as always.
05:10Yes, I mean, you're here, you know.
05:11Yeah, of course.
05:11You're always excited to learn, because...
05:13Similarly here.
05:14Yes.
05:14You know, they say that the partnership, the ability that you may have to bring out great things,
05:20you know, you also ought to be commended for that as well.
05:22Because partnership is important.
05:24We work together, right?
05:25Yeah, of course, certainly.
05:26But thank you very much, as always.
05:27You know, Jackie, good evening to you and our technical team.
05:32The executive of the CCN TV6.
05:34Yes.
05:34You know, not very often that I specifically single them out, but to the executive of the CCN TV6,
05:38you know, I salute you this afternoon.
05:40Thank you very much for the partnership.
05:41The executive of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service, led by the Honorable Commissioner
05:44of Police, Deputy Commissioners, Benjamin, Martin, George, all senior officers.
05:50A short while ago, I had the opportunity to interact with some of these individuals in
05:54a very, very important engagement, you know, which will soon hit the public domain.
06:01All law enforcement brothers and sisters, including the private security industry, Whitney,
06:06I always, you know, recognize them for the work that they continue to do and, you know,
06:11you indicated something is coming to an end on the 17th.
06:13The 17th.
06:14It means that, you know, more need for commitment and dedication, you know, going back to a level
06:21of normalcy.
06:23And most importantly, you, our beloved citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, I, you know, I speak
06:28to you.
06:29I look forward to speaking with you.
06:30I look forward to hearing you.
06:31So, to Whitney, I hope that we are meeting you in a place of comfort.
06:36Yes.
06:36In light of what's happening in Trinidad and Tobago.
06:38And I look forward to hearing from you this afternoon.
06:41You know, we're in the middle of September already.
06:43Could you imagine that we are already closing on the second week of school?
06:46Yes.
06:46You know.
06:47Time is moving and the month, I mean, it's a month that persons dread, right?
06:50But I always say don't dread the month because that is the energy you're putting out.
06:54It's another month to do things better.
06:56That's right.
06:57And, you know, also, you know, this morning, during the morning period, I had the opportunity
07:02to engage a very important stakeholder group.
07:04And if they're listening to me, the educators, the principals, the leaders of all the schools,
07:10primary and secondary, in the Victoria Educational District and support personnel, it was indeed
07:15a very humbling but interesting engagement with that particular stakeholder group with me.
07:20And I was happy to be down there.
07:21And, you know, if you all are listening to me, thank you very much for receiving me and other members
07:25of my team.
07:27You know, with our very important engagement, looking at the National School Code of Conduct
07:312026, a very important document to be read in conjunction with other very important legal
07:38documents and policies to deal with the issues of indiscipline in our nation schools, very
07:43significant areas.
07:44But as always, it's a pleasure to be here.
07:46And let me hand back over neatly to you.
07:48Well, I know you wear the other hat as a horse as well, so, you know, you're able to operate
07:54in certain spaces.
07:56I try.
07:56Yeah, I try with me.
07:57I try.
07:58And I hope that, you know, I hope that the citizenry is, you know, you know, seeing my incremental
08:04improvement.
08:05You know, perhaps one day I'll be at your level.
08:07So, you know, I'm trying to get there.
08:09I'm telling you the same way.
08:10You never know.
08:11I could get into law the same way.
08:12I just don't know.
08:13Well, next thing you're already in the process.
08:16Next year you're already in the process and you're not seeing it.
08:17And you're not seeing it.
08:18That's right.
08:18Yeah.
08:19Well, we have a lot to dissect as per usual and we are always willing to open the show
08:25or the flow for our listeners as well to tune in and engage that things that we may
08:29not be able to bring to the forefront.
08:32We are going to do that moving forward.
08:34So, let's dive straight into it.
08:35So, there was a, this is sad news, by the way.
08:38A decomposing body of a woman was found inside a guard booth on the compound of previously
08:45used Panyard in San Fernando on Wednesday.
08:48Now, residents said the woman appeared to be in her 60s and had been residing in the
08:54guard booth.
08:55Now, this information was courtesy of a journalist right here from the Express and that is Suzanne
09:02Mohammed.
09:02And we had more information with regards to what transpired there, which we will definitely
09:07take a listen.
09:07But, Mr. Ali?
09:10Well, you know, when you hear a human body being discovered and in this case, you know,
09:17probably at an advanced state of decomposition, it's a touching feeling.
09:24Yes.
09:25And we do not know the true circumstances as yet, but at minimal, that person is connected
09:33to somebody.
09:34Yes.
09:34And somebody definitely will be in a position of grieving, you know, whether it's natural
09:39or unnatural.
09:41And, you know, I'll say condolences to the family.
09:43Yes, of course.
09:44And, you know, let's see what comes out of it in terms of whether in fact it's natural
09:49or whether it's unnatural and, you know, let due process take its course.
09:53But even from a victim and support context, if family is identified, you know, I know that
10:00the authorities will be looking to see how best they can make an intervention because
10:03that's a very important psychosocial well-being.
10:05Yes.
10:05You know, that has been in the public domain.
10:08So it's important to look at it in the context as well from that victim-centered approach.
10:12So, yes, unfortunate, but let's see what's happening.
10:15And a gentleman who's always willing to be here on a Monday with us, Captain Rambert, of
10:19course, you know, he is present and the team was there present to guide us and let us know
10:23exactly a little bit more information on updates.
10:26So let's take a listen.
10:27Yes.
10:32This morning, at around 9.25, we were passing in the San Fernando area five members from
10:39the Hunter Search and Rescue Team led by Captain Balan Rambert.
10:43And while passing in the San Fernando area, we picked up a false stench and we decided to
10:50stop and check it.
10:50And upon checking this false stench, at around 9.35, we discovered a female decomposing body
10:57inside of the abandoned guard building.
11:03Mr. Ali, I mean, this is a sad state to see anyone, any person, even if you, it's a family
11:10member or not, or if they have family members out there, to see the conditions in which they
11:14had to use a space for just resting their head and surviving and now they have passed.
11:22Whitney, permit me to say something.
11:25I paid a deeper attention to this.
11:27You say, let's take a deep dive.
11:29There's a deep dive program.
11:31And I'll say, let's take a deeper dive into this context.
11:35You already reported that, you know, a body was found in this particular area here.
11:40Yes.
11:40Now, I do not know the circumstances surrounding this structure.
11:43But it appears to me, looking at the video on citizens, you can probably get part of the
11:46discussion as well.
11:47Well, it appears to be a place that is not properly kept or unkept, if I should say that,
11:52right?
11:53And I will first, I want to salute the hunter rescue team for that keen powers of observation,
11:59or should I say smell, with the stench.
12:01With the stench.
12:02And then they were alerted to it and then they exercised their due diligence.
12:06But again, it goes to show in a community, and I'm going to look at it from a civilian context,
12:12and I'm going to look at it from a law enforcement context, how important it is to be checking these
12:17establishments, that is unoccupied or not properly kept, what appears to be a guard boot, I don't
12:23know whether that's occupied on a daily basis or not.
12:25I do not know whether there's an abandoned structure.
12:27But the point I want to make, and I made it some time ago, is that these areas must be
12:33checked on a daily basis.
12:34And if these areas are abandoned or unkept, the authorities that are responsible for checking
12:41these things, regional cooperation, both citizens and law enforcement who may be traversing
12:45in the area, it's important for us to report these issues and treat with these issues because
12:50what if it turned out that it's a situation where there are suspicious circumstances, and
12:55it created an opportunity for someone to dump a body, or we're hearing, quote unquote, it
13:00may be a female, we don't know whether when the autopsy is done, whether someone was raped
13:04and sexually assaulted in that particular area, right?
13:07So I want to make the point this afternoon in terms of when we are looking at the prevention
13:10of crime and criminality from an environmental context, from an infrastructural context, looking
13:15at other agencies.
13:17It is critically important for us to examine this, and I'm going back to close with reference
13:22to the hunter search and rescue indicating that they were alerted or they were attracted
13:30via stench.
13:31So let us pay attention to our environment, our surroundings. You can't be home in a simple
13:39context and haven't seen your neighbor for two days, who should be home, and you ain't
13:44inquiring. If that is a society that we live in, something's wrong. So we need to be, you
13:51know what, we are our brother's keeper and sister's keeper. This is also applicable in
13:55my view. Let us look at our infrastructure, look at our environment, and let us exercise
13:58due diligence. Perhaps if we are doing that, we may not have disturbed the hunter's rescue
14:02to be coming down San Fernando and be alerted to them.
14:05That's correct.
14:05Anyone seeing someone coming out of a guard boot and you're seeing clothes in it, clearly
14:09the person is positioning themselves there because they have nowhere else to go. That's
14:14correct. And without inquiring. And even if you're afraid to inquire, you could use the
14:17TTPS to go and see if this person is okay or what is really happening. You just don't
14:22know. Check it out. And I want to say one more point. I'm not saying this is not done,
14:27because I'm aware that law enforcement, you know, due diligence check as well. But I just want
14:30to re-emphasize the point that in our patrols, our targeted patrols, and to ensure that we
14:36are effective in our patrol, do not only patrol and fail to check these little huts and establishments.
14:43It won't hurt you to come out and exit your vehicle. Whether it's night, with your torch,
14:49you know, check, make sure everything okay, only day. Or if you find this is an abandoned
14:53structure, alert the regional corporation to find out who is responsible for the upkeep.
14:58So you don't facilitate crime, whether before, during, after.
15:03All right. Now, the TTPS continues to look extremely hard, Mr. Ali, because you're seeing here
15:07from their media release, a Moruga man granted $200,000 bail after being charged with wounding
15:13with intent. So a Moruga man was granted bail with surety in the sum of $200,000 with surety
15:19after appearing before master at the Prince's Town Court on Monday, the 14th September, 2026.
15:26Charged with wounding with intent to inflict grievous bodily harm. Now, Jonah Thompson, also known
15:33as Sugarhead, was not called upon to enter a plea as part of his bail conditions. He is required to
15:40report and sign at the police station once per month. A sufficiency hearing is scheduled for April 12,
15:472027. Now, Thompson was charged following investigations into an incident which occurred
15:54along Penal Rock Road, Moruga on Tuesday 8, September 2026. Around 11.25 AM that day, the complainant was
16:03walking along Penal Rock Road with his neighbor when he was allegedly approached by Thompson, who was armed with a
16:10cutlass. An
16:11argument reportedly ensued between the two men, during which Thompson allegedly dealt the victim several
16:18blows about his body with the cutlass. The suspect was allegedly dealt a chop to his left hand, resulting in
16:26injuries to two fingers and the palm of his hand. Now, the investigation was conducted by
16:35P.C. Bridge Lal, accompanied by Corporal Gopal and officers from the St. Mary's Police Station and the Southern Division
16:44Task Force, resulting in the arrest of a male suspect the same day.
16:49Mr. Ali? Well, you know, thank you very much, Whitney, again, for reading the work of the
16:54Trinidad and Tobago Police Service. And, you know, every time there's a detection or there's a level of
16:59success, it ought to be complemented. We know policing is a very challenging task, it's a risky task, and, you
17:04know, we
17:04must commend these efforts. And, as I always said, most of these success is geared towards the citizenry making a
17:13contribution, whether directly or indirectly, or, you know, other forms of contribution from other law enforcement agencies.
17:18But, you know, I salute the work and ask the PTPS and all officers, you know, to come to persevere.
17:23And, you know, your commitment and dedication is extremely important for the safety and security of Trinidad and Tobago.
17:28Yes. I always emphasize that. Now, Mr. Ali, today might be the final day for this, the SOE update as
17:33of September 16, 2026. So, let's take a look.
17:39Number of operations, 13,412. Number of targets prior to offenders, 3,409. Searches conducted, 4,596. Traffic operations, 8
17:51,361. Total persons
17:54charged, 1,414. Firearms recovered. We're seeing an increase with the shotguns, giving us a total of 325. Ammunition recovered.
18:12We're seeing the 9mm, along with the 12 gauge, giving us a total of 6,478. And dangerous drugs seized.
18:21We're seeing an increase with the cannabis and cocaine.
18:23Mr. Ali? Well, I just want to go back to the point you made that we might be seeing this
18:28for the last time.
18:29Yes. Because the SOE is coming to an end. But let me say, you mightn't be seeing it in this
18:33format.
18:34No. But definitely, every single area that you have identified in terms of operations, arrests, seizure, that kind of thing,
18:41continues on a daily basis, whether in or out of the SOE.
18:44As a matter of fact, the table, in my respect, if you could continue to be able to continue to
18:48evaluate and measure the work of law enforcement, because every single day what could happen, every division can call in
18:54how many operations they did, how many arrests was made, how many firearms were seized.
18:58And on a daily basis, you could still have these figures out of the SOE.
19:02What this may have done, this may have induced a need to continue to closely supervise the work of the
19:08police service, and also for the police service to demonstrate the effort that they're exerting to ensure that there is
19:14safety and security.
19:14So we can look at it either way, Whitney.
19:16Yes. Well, I know that today there was a press conference that took place in regards to what may be
19:23happening outside of the SOE.
19:25But we will get, obviously, updates with that. But I just want to also touch on quickly where are the
19:31persons who were detained during the SOE?
19:34And we saw persons, I believe it's a total of 276.
19:38Yeah.
19:39They were released. And recently, we saw on Monday, 187 was released as well.
19:44They could take legal action if no one was charged.
19:47Most certainly, if a person believed that they were, their rights, and I'm using rights in a general context, whether
19:54it be right to liberty, right to freedom of movement, what have you, right to an attorney, what have you.
20:00If they believed that their rights were infringed during that period of time, in the way that we are configured
20:05in our legal framework, they would have access to the course of Trinidad and Tobago to review the authority's actions.
20:11So, I will say that, yes.
20:13Yes. But like anything else, in terms of, for example, if you're looking at judicial review, you know, there must
20:18be a real prospect of a case succeeding so that it's not a situation where, because you were incarcerated, that
20:26you will have opportunity to review.
20:27You have to build that case to show the grounds in which you are looking to review.
20:31And then a court will look at it to grant leave if it's judicial review, and then perhaps at a
20:35later date, you have a full trial looking at the actions of the state.
20:37So, I will say, yes, it's always open for access to the courts in relation to looking at your legal
20:43rights and privileges that may have been breached.
20:45On the other hand, it's also important for law enforcement, these persons who were arrested over the period, even if
20:52they were not charged at the time that the SOE came to an end and they had to be released,
20:56it doesn't mean an investigation has ended.
20:57Does it stop? Okay. All right.
20:59Investigation can be unfolding. It's important for law enforcement to be given updates when pre-action letters are flowing, or
21:06even if it reaches a situation in the court, to be able to demonstrate, listen, that an arrest, investigations were
21:12being conducted, and the investigations were progressing, evidence were being gathered, and we are getting close to laying criminal charges.
21:20So, criminal investigations are a very sensitive matter. That's not something that you can, you know, I should say this,
21:26be reckless in how you're doing it, because you're looking at guarding sufficient evidence to be able to prosecute people
21:32successfully.
21:33You do not want to just go to court with a hint of evidence that really cannot stand up to
21:39the scrutiny.
21:39So, investigations are very complex, especially gang investigations, complex crimes, you know, it's very important.
21:47And then we know the challenges sometimes. Witnesses don't want to give statements, you're looking for witnesses, delay in forensic
21:53results.
21:55So, you know, these things sometimes delay a conclusion of an investigation for prosecution.
22:00So, you know, there's a lot of things to consider, but to answer your question, yes, persons who believe that
22:05their rights who are grieved can have access to the court to be able to test it.
22:09But what I will say to those persons, and this is not to advise you, but to ensure that we
22:14have a smooth process, seek legal advice.
22:18Seek legal advice. So, you'll know you're standing and you won't be wasting the time of court, wasting your own
22:23time and wasting your funding.
22:25All right, it's time for us to take a look at what's making today's headlines.
22:55We'll see you next time.
23:00And those are your stories making today's headlines. We'll take that break. We'll be back.
23:03We'll be back.
23:25And my hair shines, I shine.
23:29You're worth it.
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23:37Do enjoy, Stacey.
23:41You want some coffee?
23:44Can I have a drink?
23:50Perfect.
24:00Whatever you're here for, we're here for you.
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24:45The policy makers, the critics, the movers and shakers of our nation.
24:51We bring you the stories behind the soundbites and connect the dots to bring you the complete picture.
24:58Through hard-hitting discussions and intimate interviews, from the community to the corridors of power, we cover it over.
25:26And welcome back.
25:27It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
25:28Do you remember, you could give us a call at 623-1711, extension 1996 or 1997.
25:35Of course, we have our attorney at law and director with us, Mr. Ali, who is always here to guide
25:40us.
25:40So we have to the full night's caller.
25:41Good evening.
25:46Good evening.
25:47Hi.
25:49Good evening.
25:50Could you, ma'am, we need you to take off your television set or mute your volume first, please?
25:55I can't answer the talk, yes.
25:57You could go ahead.
25:58Hello?
25:59Yes.
26:00Good evening.
26:02Good evening.
26:02Hi, good evening.
26:03Yes, I'm fine, thank you.
26:06I made an observation with the school fight.
26:10The review that I don't know if most people noticed, but I'm very observant, that all the young men who
26:19were fighting and those who were looking on, each had a handkerchief of the same color in their pockets.
26:29It signifies that they all belonged to a gang.
26:34I don't know if people observed that, but they all had that navy blue spotted handkerchief in their pockets, hanging
26:43out, which are indication that they were all connected, possibly in a gap.
26:50So, I don't know if that plays any part of what took place or how we all deal with these
26:58young people.
27:00Interesting.
27:00Thank you, ma'am.
27:02Yes.
27:02Mr. Ali.
27:04Kuala, thank you very much for your submission.
27:07You know, you've made a very, very sensitive submission.
27:11And I say sensitive in the context where we can look at it in both contexts.
27:17Persons may have a preference, and let me look at the legal side of it.
27:23Persons may have a preference to display a particular color, bandana, handkerchief.
27:29Color coding.
27:30Color coding.
27:30Correct.
27:31In one context.
27:32Mm-hmm.
27:32But I'm happy that you qualify that subsequently.
27:35We say that there's a possibility that it may also signal that they may properly belong to a particular group,
27:42and you may have attributed a possible group that may be inclined for acts of criminality.
27:48So, in both contexts, we need to look at it.
27:50But we can only do that by a proper, diligent investigation and interviewing of the individuals, perhaps with a very
27:58direct question about the reason for having that particular handkerchief.
28:03Each one of those persons to be able to interview them.
28:06Or to look at these circumstances in depth, to look beyond the handkerchief and say, okay, do these persons, or
28:14are these persons formalized in other contexts?
28:16So, to look at it at one isolated context and say, okay, they all display in a particular color, handkerchief.
28:22No problem.
28:23While it may create suspicion, mere suspicion, I don't think it will reach the threshold of reasonable cause to believe
28:28or suspect that they may be having that level of formality.
28:31But I understand you, and I love where your thinking is going.
28:35And I will want to convey what you said to the principals and teachers in the education sector, and including
28:42the parents as well, to start to be alerted when children are exhibiting or they are patterning themselves in a
28:53way that you have just identified.
28:55I think it's significant, and hence why I use the word a very sensitive submission, because, Whitney, that caller is
29:00thinking.
29:00Because if I take her legally into the anti-gang legislation, in the anti-gang legislation, if you're looking at
29:07evidence to build a case in terms of showing that the persons are organized, one of the areas I may
29:12look at is exactly what she's speaking about.
29:14But that can only come with diligent investigation, so that you will not be in suspicion, but you will have
29:21evidence to be able to prove that the fact that they are displaying that is evidence that they want to
29:26be noted as one common unit.
29:30Well, as I say, a gang.
29:31But I don't want to go gang here, because gang is two or more.
29:34No, not with them.
29:34Okay.
29:35Not with them, I'm just saying.
29:36Yes.
29:36If they have to affiliate.
29:37Correct.
29:37We see numbers in Trinidad.
29:39Correct.
29:39United States are really colors.
29:41That's right.
29:41We see it goes here, but they don't know if it is happening here.
29:44That's correct.
29:44That's going to us, right?
29:45That's correct.
29:45So we have another caller.
29:46Caller.
29:47Good evening.
29:50Hello?
29:51Yes, good evening.
29:52Hi, good evening to you, sir.
29:55With your partner, looking.
29:56Yes.
29:57We can't really suit it today.
29:59The first one.
30:01Looking well spot.
30:02Yes.
30:02So, Ms. Ali, now you really don't know the kind of movements.
30:09Have we recently released about $1 million in drugs?
30:13Now, the police service has saved a lot of youth's lives by getting rid of this amount
30:19of cocaine and TN.
30:21So, not saying that.
30:22The commander of the police, what other want the police to do again?
30:25The police is working to take a dog, take a bow, take a piss for all that cocaine that
30:31the youths didn't get to smoke and put on work because I'll be here in my car hundreds
30:36of people be able.
30:37They said they want to run and they want to, you know, marijuana, they want to cocaine because
30:41when the police should have to put still feet, they will still run, if you run and try
30:45to get out with cocaine, they have no feeling.
30:47So, $1 billion this government gets rid of and it's trying to make police all who are involved.
30:53So, I would like to see it get commended, some kind of certificate or something because
30:59TCPS has worked in.
31:00At last, they are working.
31:02I want to thank you, Mr. Ali, for the years.
31:05Have a best one, all right?
31:06Same to you, Sue.
31:07What was our favorite on the show?
31:09And, Kola, thanks for your kind submission and your submission and your strong call representing
31:14the citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago to commend the officers who are involved in that detection.
31:19And it's, in fact, a major detection.
31:21And you're right that if you really weigh the benefits, you may not really see the thorough
31:26benefits that can be derived from the seizure of that kind of narcotics.
31:31But you are right.
31:33And even looking at it, not only for my issue of crime, let's look at it from a public health
31:37issue.
31:39Cocaine destroys life.
31:40Dangerous drugs, destroying life, destroying homes.
31:43So, you are right and I endorse your call.
31:46I'm sure members of the executive of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service and the Defense
31:50Force.
31:51I'm sure that those hierarchy, both hierarchies listening, and I'm sure that they will look
31:57at the particular circumstances and see how best they can commend these officers with reference
32:02to this particular detection.
32:03However, as I always said, the journey now will start with reference to the detection.
32:09So, we have got any drugs out of the street or in the hands of police.
32:12The question now is to ensure that we successfully prosecute the human element.
32:17Whitney, drugs can't move on its own.
32:20You can't.
32:20Firearms cannot move on its own.
32:22No.
32:23Unless you're not a reporter.
32:24So, the human element is a critical, critical, critical point.
32:30And that's why that I don't want us to become complacent or satisfied that we have gotten
32:35the drugs off the street.
32:38And we allow the human element to continue because they are not going to stop.
32:42Exactly.
32:42If we are not dealing with them within the rule of law.
32:45All right.
32:45We have another call.
32:46Caller, good evening.
32:47Good evening.
32:49Good evening.
32:52And I want to refer to the school boys.
32:56Say sorry.
32:58They have jumped right into restorative justice, mediation, and all of these things.
33:04These things will be necessary.
33:06But I have a different view of it, you know, corporally.
33:09You know what?
33:10These individuals were involved in what?
33:12Violent, aggressive behavior.
33:15And there's a particular solution or intervention.
33:19Particularly, we call it responsibility.
33:22Right?
33:23They have to develop interventions as to the offending behavior.
33:27So, what the authorities who are looking at it, these youngsters, you know,
33:32they have to see the suspension.
33:34You know what?
33:34They must be a quorum with the aggression replacement training.
33:39They call it art.
33:41Right?
33:41It is based on the work that pirates I need you.
33:48And it takes to provide young people to social behavior.
33:53Very, very important.
33:54And the skills that we can use in anti-social situations.
33:59As well as skills to manage anger in person that leads to aggressive and violent actions.
34:05It consists of three components that you just give it to me.
34:09One is that it involves social skills training.
34:13There are the contagial components.
34:15And it teaches you their personal skills to deal with anger-provoking events.
34:20Then there's the anger control training.
34:23There is the effective component.
34:25And it teaches you their self-control, competencies, and, last but not least, moral reasoning.
34:42Like the cognitive component.
34:45They are taught the component designed to raise the young person's level of fairness, justice, and concern with the needs
34:52and rights of others.
34:54The community responsibility.
34:55So what I think is quite corporately is that these people who are involved in these kinds of intervention must
35:04understand socio-centric approach that focuses on responsibility towards others and communities.
35:10It targets changing the physical thinking, the attitudes, and behavior of those young people.
35:17And it's a 10-week program.
35:20And you have to teach the five levels of foolishness and all the character qualities that are consistent with all
35:29the five levels of foolishness.
35:31We have to teach wisdom and discretion and enjoyment.
35:34Self-control, responsibility, sensitivity, humility, justice, deference, and the like, honor, obedience, loyalty, weakness, contentment, and go on and on.
35:46Because the character deficits are forth in this state.
35:49So it's art, not drawing, aggression, replacement, art, training.
35:55Alright, thank you so much.
35:57In quality, you have to get to these people.
35:59And let those professionals know, right, that they have particular interventions, that they have to teach them aggression, replacement, training.
36:11The restorative thinking and mediation, all that comes after.
36:14You have better to do those offending behavior deficits, those character deficits.
36:18Right?
36:18I'm sorry to be so long, but I'd like to share policies with you.
36:22Because you're involved in policy.
36:24And you have to take these policies, right?
36:26Yes, too, if you follow up with capital intervention.
36:29Alright.
36:30Thank you for letting me read.
36:32Yes, thank you so much, caller.
36:33Mr. Ali, we will respond to the caller after the break.
36:36Certainly. Thank you.
36:36We'll be back after this.
37:05We'll be back after this.
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38:43And we are back now, Mr. Allen.
38:45You can respond to the caller before the break.
38:47Caller, I always enjoy your discourse, and I always enjoy your submission.
38:50I feel your passion.
38:51I feel your passion when you're speaking about policy and looking at restorative justice and also looking at rehabilitation and
38:57reintegration.
38:58Very significant principles, and may I assure you that there's a multi-stakeholder, multi-disciplinary team that I've brought together
39:06under the Ministry of Homeland Policy and Community Support Office that is presently engaged in very deep dialogue to be
39:12able to promote what you're speaking about.
39:14So I want to thank you for, you know, endorsing how important it is to look at it in the
39:18angle that you're looking at it.
39:19And, you know, of course I saw the headlines as well in relation to the position allegedly adopted by the
39:26students that was allegedly involved in the fight.
39:30But I have a lot to say on that, but this is not the proper forum for me to speak
39:34in relation to that issue.
39:35Because there's a lot of issues in relation to that particular pronouncement.
39:38But what I will say, when we are dealing with children, children is a very sensitive matter.
39:45And there's an overarching principle in international law, in domestic law, that every action that you have to take must
39:54be grounded in the best interest of the child.
39:55Let me repeat that. And this is for every single person who will be connected to a child, whether it
40:01be a mother, a father, a family member, an educator, state agencies.
40:06Every action that one has to take in relation to a child, and our definition is under 18, must be
40:13in the best interest of the child.
40:15And that's a significant principle. Every court will be holding you firm in relation to that.
40:20And I don't mean to use this as an example, but if you are going through divorce proceedings, Whitney, and
40:25there's a child involved in the process, courts are very concerned what is the arrangement for that child.
40:31That connotates how important, notwithstanding that you are dealing with the separation of two individuals legally, where there's a child,
40:39the court is very cognizant to say,
40:41listen, tell me what's the arrangement for this child before I determine how I'm going to treat with other matters.
40:47And that promotes what I'm speaking about. And I think sometimes when we are making decisions, whether it be from
40:53an informal, formal family, what have you,
40:55we need to always be making the decision that is in the best interest of the child.
40:59And this morning, I could not have, I could not have done, promote that issue of the best interest of
41:07the child. Very, very significant.
41:09And I want that to stick with us. If there's one thing that we remember this afternoon, is that.
41:13Yes. Now, I want to touch on something that I saw this week.
41:17And I mean, you're here, it's legally speaking, Wednesdays.
41:19Yes.
41:19And this drew my attention here because we are, this is, this is something concerning.
41:25So court rejects state bid to tap prisoners' legal calls.
41:30And this is off of the heels of Justice Robin Muhammad in a judgment delivered last Friday,
41:35found that the amendments which removed legal professional privilege from most communications made by prisoners
41:43breach several constitutional rights, including the rights to retain and communicate with a lawyer
41:49and the right to a fair hearing. Now, the state cannot routinely intercept and record prisoners' communications
41:56with their lawyers, the high court has ruled. So it is also declared that key provisions of the law
42:03were unconstitutional, illegal, and null and void. With all of that being said, Mr. Ali.
42:10Yes.
42:11Yes. Lame on terms, the ground, explain.
42:14Well, you have taken me straight into the area of constitutional law.
42:17And, you know, you have basically put it, you know, accurately in public domain.
42:22And in simple terms, the constitution of the land provides a right to an attorney.
42:27And right to an attorney means access to an attorney.
42:30Yes.
42:30So if someone is, in this case, they are arrested, they are charged, they are in a prison setting,
42:36they still have access to an attorney, right to an attorney.
42:40This particular law, based on the judge's pronouncement, and I don't know whether impact,
42:43it may be subject to an appeal, but we go in based on the first instance ruling.
42:47The judge found that that particular statute infringed that right to access an attorney.
42:53And right, and access and right to an attorney for a person who is arrested.
42:57Yes.
42:57Who will need to speak to a lawyer for many different reasons.
43:00Whether it is in human conditions where he's been kept or she's been kept.
43:04Correct.
43:04Or whether it is a need to provide a piece of information to contest their defense.
43:07Or whether to give instructions in relation to their matter.
43:10Many different things.
43:12Family issues, you name it.
43:14Because the attorney is representing the person.
43:15Yes.
43:16Now there is something very significant here.
43:17It appears based on the judge's pronouncement that this particular law required a partial majority
43:24because it was actually interfering with constitutional rights, a right to an attorney.
43:30So if you have to now infringe on that right, the constitution creates particular special majorities
43:36to be able to intercept or to be able to interfere with a constitutional right.
43:41So the judge is saying that they have found those particular parts of the legislation unconstitutional.
43:47And it would need to be struck down.
43:49So that's a very significant development.
43:51But there's also one thing that he said.
43:54That albeit that the interception of the communication of an attorney speaking to an arrested person
44:02leads to an infringement of a right.
44:04But if that communication, and this is significant for those who are listening.
44:08So we already identified that the person has a right to an attorney.
44:10Correct.
44:11You are now passing a law to intercept that.
44:13The judge is saying that is unlawful.
44:15But if in the process of communicating, notwithstanding that it is unlawful to intercept the attorney
44:20and the accused, from my understanding legally, if you are advising the client,
44:26but your advice is geared towards promoting criminal conduct,
44:30then you cannot hide behind privilege.
44:32Because now you are promoting criminal conduct.
44:34So this is, and I'm happy that you read that, because this is a very significant piece of development,
44:39very heavily grounded in constitutional law.
44:41So that is, in a nutshell, what we have, and is now for the legislators,
44:46to the Office of the Attorney General, to look at this law again and see whether there is a need
44:51to make certain adjustments
44:53to ensure that they are in line with the constitutionality
44:55and to ensure that they follow the necessary requirements of the Constitution
44:59to be passing legislation like they pass it.
45:00And that is between attorney and client privilege, just to be clear.
45:04That's correct.
45:04Not auntie, mommy, no friend who call, and this is between the attorney and a legal lawful.
45:10That person who is arrested and charged has access or should have access to an attorney,
45:17right to an attorney, that right should not be disturbed.
45:19And if that right has been disturbed based on how that law,
45:22you have now a conflict with a statute passed by a simple majority interfering with a constitutional right,
45:28which is the issue, and hence why the judge indicated that he may not have gotten the special majority
45:33to pass that legislation.
45:34He has ruled it unconstitutional.
45:37And couple upon that, if in fact you are communicating with your client,
45:41but the communication is what gets towards promoting criminal conduct,
45:45that's a different story.
45:45The privileges has now been removed.
45:47All right, we will take more of that conversation and of course your calls when we come back.
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48:14and we are back of course Mr Ali we continue with the conversation and I know persons will
48:19want to chime in as well so remember you can give us a call at 623-1711 extension 1996 or
48:261997 and what
48:28you were speaking about before we went to the break is something very important and I hope
48:33the public understands and that is why you are here so we have a call on who will call a
48:37good
48:37evening hello good evening hi good evening yes loud and clear ma'am yes yes good evening good evening to
48:49you
48:50yes good officer I know you like to be a balanced person all right and I'm so aware those persons
48:57who
48:58went on the PDO they said they were had four months in hell and they spoke about the deplorable conditions
49:04of the thing does that give them a right to really um so because I mean they're not going to
49:10a hotel
49:10but at the same time the number of the things that they said that they went through that that give
49:15them one of the right you know for ready to have a lawsuit that is the first point the second
49:19point
49:20is concerning all the drugs that the police have bought that's a real cause you know why because
49:27you know why because women from the tender people certain person saw a boat they were just thrown fire
49:31and killed everybody so the drugs would have been disciplined and they would not have killed anybody
49:37so some of that didn't happen and the police were able to do their work you understand so that that
49:42is a thought and I want the police to continue doing it with despite what they have to try whatever
49:47it is good tomorrow supposed to be last day and after that they have to continue because it's
49:52continued to have all sorts of things happening so all the best to all of you and be safe all
49:58of you
49:59thank you very very much thank you so much ma'am miss Sally thank you very much um caller you
50:03know
50:03you have dubbed me of someone who always like to strike that balance and I think that balance is
50:07important if I don't have balance here I'll probably fall down you don't want you to fall at all
50:10similarly with these do have balance she'll fall down but you know I just been humorous with you
50:14this afternoon but thank you very much um you did in fact you know touch a point that Whitney had
50:19asked early on in terms of persons who you know who may have been incarcerated during the state of
50:24emergency and the emergency comes and then persons are released whether in fact they will have access
50:29to the court or they may have any right and I'm simply saying that if you are if they feel
50:34aggrieved having sought advice they believe that the circumstances surrounding their arrest and detention
50:38may have led to the breach of constitutional rights in other words apart from the conditions
50:43that they were being kept in if one look at the the execution of the PDU and they believe that
50:50they may not have had sufficient grounds in order to detain them to arrest and detain you know they can
50:55challenge um the authorities in looking at um wrongful arrests um imprisonment because mr alice's
51:02question doesn't mean you're criminal well and I want us to be very careful here the way that the
51:06emergency regulations and the power that was provided to the um to the honorable minister of
51:12homeland security where PDOs are concerned and I want to repeat this where the minister has belief
51:18or information that a person is acting in a manner prejudicial to public safety or likely to act in a
51:25manner prejudicial to public safety he can issue the PDO so I'm just saying in the context that we need
51:31to
51:31look and see how the law how the constitutional emergency regulations was coached that the minister
51:36exercises hand of course on advice from the law enforcement agencies not a feeling or opinion it
51:41is from information intel that was received that's correct and they deemed by under the law likely to
51:47act in a manner prejudicial to public safety or acting in a manner prejudicial to public safety so
51:51those are the things that will have to be measured to see okay what information came to the hand or
51:57the
51:57knowledge of the minister that would have moved him to grant correct on a PDO and when you look under
52:03this information this information will be evaluated and if the uh detainee believe that this information
52:08when tested did not create sufficient grounds to move that way then you may have a court been called upon
52:14to look and see whether in fact there's any damages you know the breach of right to liberty movement and
52:18that sort of thing so to answer your question every circumstance it will have to be judged on its own
52:23to really determine whether in fact that person has
52:26um there were breaches and whether that person has a right or an access to the court to further ventilate
52:31the matter and see what
52:31regress that they can get before a court of law all right we have another call caller good evening
52:38hello good afternoon good afternoon good afternoon good evening to you sir direct I want to convey to you the
52:50success of those two drug hauls that recently was as a result of the national security apparatus I want to
52:59commend the police and the police guard
53:01that but in retrospect I am completely with another drug bust 21 years ago same time august september on another
53:14island monos island where this was close to
53:19and there was a
53:22and there was a semblance of a pattern that happened with that one and this one a go fast boat
53:29they were they weren't fishing they had lots of jobs high governmental fishers was implicated but not proven when the
53:39court had civil suit and it was thrown out
53:41but the consequence of that drug bust I think the commission of police was a fellow by the name of
53:50Trevor Paul and he said it might have been Mexican and Colombian drug cartel
53:58and if people could recall within two months or so after that happened there was some heinous crime committed
54:09the beheading of several people with headless body forms around the area Tsunedad, Lamantan, etc.
54:19I think even one was the nephew of a minister so I'm hoping that the police revisit that recreate the
54:28scenarios and anticipate what will happen
54:32because half a billion dollars somebody has to pay that somebody has to have come for that and that could
54:42be a situation that we all have to cringe
54:46and hope it will go south in the interest of 20,000 people
54:49I would go on and it's no fair
54:50Thank you so much Kola
54:52Mr. Ali
54:53I don't know how much you could delve in there
54:55Well I'll say thank you very much Kola and a very sensitive area that you have raised and if you
54:59are basing it on the historic facts
55:03I think that the law enforcement agencies should be well guided in terms of what you're bringing forward in terms
55:08of
55:08and you know looking at it from a common sense context
55:11Yes
55:12That's a very expensive detection
55:15and persons will have stakes in that detection
55:18So it is normal to think any way that you are thinking and I'm happy that you have brought that
55:24to law enforcement
55:24so that you know they will exercise the necessary due diligence to prevent further crime and criminality
55:30in this case
55:30here in your crime
55:32Thank you very much for being part of the discussion
55:33Alright, we have another call
55:35Kola, good evening
55:38Hello
55:39Yes, hello, good evening
55:40Hi, good evening to you sir
55:41You're the final call this evening
55:43You can go ahead
55:45Yes, hello
55:46Yes, you can go ahead
55:49Hello
55:49Yes, we are hearing you
55:50You can go ahead, ask your question
55:52Oh, right, okay, good
55:53Right
55:56Yes
55:57Sir
55:57Sir
55:58Yes
55:58You could go ahead, you could ask your question
56:00You could go ahead
56:02Yeah, I'm here waiting to hear one of them reply
56:06I turned my TV down and all that
56:08Yes, but we could go ahead, we're waiting on you
56:11Okay, alright
56:12Yes, hello, good evening folks
56:15Good evening to you
56:16Am I okay or not okay?
56:17Yes
56:18As okay as possible, alright
56:21Now, what I want to quickly talk about is
56:24What is happening in our society
56:26And what
56:28And what
56:28And there's
56:30There's
56:31Advice that I want to give
56:32To the
56:33The loyal police
56:34So that
56:34From he can take it
56:35Now
56:36It seems that our social fabric
56:39Has been fractured
56:41All I look at it
56:42From a research that
56:43Our social fabric
56:44Fractured
56:45Which is a bit dangerous
56:46Anything can happen from there
56:48Right
56:48But then
56:49The
56:50The police
56:51Post
56:52Now
56:53From what I know
56:54The soldiers have post
56:56The military have post
56:57The police have substations
56:59Right
56:59And if you have any substations
57:02The substations
57:03Should be able to handle
57:05The immediate community
57:07With substations
57:08Okay
57:09Which
57:11Alright, so
57:12We do have to apologize to you
57:14I know he was trying to make
57:16His point
57:16But we were trying to communicate
57:17We have a few seconds
57:19Before we end the show
57:21So Mr Ali
57:21You could respond
57:22And close off first
57:23Well, you know
57:25Let me say to the caller
57:26Hopefully you have the opportunity
57:27Tomorrow
57:27To call back
57:28And make your submissions
57:29But to turn it out in Tobago
57:31All the callers
57:32Thank you for your submission
57:33As always
57:34And Whitney
57:34Thank you very much
57:35For sharing this platform
57:36And continue to exercise
57:37Due diligence
57:38And ensure that
57:39You are safe and secure
57:40And you are
57:42Partnering with law enforcement
57:43Yes, thank you so much
57:44Mr Ali
57:44And of course we apologize
57:45To the caller
57:46Time is against us
57:47As we get ready for news
57:48Up next TNT at 7
57:49Alright
57:50So continue being our targets
57:52God bless you
57:53And have an enjoyable evening
57:55We're out
58:17Just ahead of the
58:18Thank you
58:18Thank you
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