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00:39Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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03:12Good evening Trinidad and Tobago and of course our international audience and our brothers and
03:17sisters in Grenada. This is Beyond the Tape. I'm your host Whitney Husband and it is smack in the
03:23middle of the weekend. I usually like to say someday so that means we're getting ready to
03:26slide into the weekend but before we do so so quickly we look forward to each and every Wednesday
03:31because it's legally speaking Wednesdays and the gentleman who is always willing even though
03:36now he has back-to-back days from deep diving now going into legally speaking he's now wearing that
03:41hat this evening no stranger and a favorite of ours to the show we have our attorney at law and
03:47director of policy and community in the Ministry of Homeland Security and I have to mention support
03:54as well. Mr Ali good evening to you Sue. Well thank you very much Whitney. Whitney I had the
03:58opportunity to see you actively present in the Queen's Park overall and I'm happy that you know
04:02you are inspiring you know the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago and those who may be visiting you know
04:08during this period of CPL but um you know it's always a pleasure to be here thank you for your
04:12warm welcome as always um you look well rested I must say that. You think so? Yeah you're looking you're
04:18looking you know in good shape you know mentally physically otherwise so yes you know I'm happy that
04:23yeah I'm happy that you know in the middle of the week you know you're showing that strength and
04:26perhaps like you know lean on some other strength yes yes yes but always you know um it's a pleasure
04:31to join you in this platform as I always a very important platform very important information and
04:36guidance to members of the public and vice versa to be able to receive their contributions their
04:40opinions their suggestions yes and you know let me join with you to you know salute our producer
04:46continue to endure to ensure that this program continues to you know fulfill its objective and you know I
04:53always will take the opportunity to also extend it to deep dive as well um to my law enforcement
04:58colleagues across the agencies and including the private security industry as well um I salute you
05:04as always for your commitment your dedication and your service to the people of Trinidad and Tobago um you
05:09know we celebrated independence and you know belated independence yes I was gonna say I saw you at the um
05:16toast with the commissioner yeah I had the opportunity to attend and you know it was a very humbling
05:21experience you know meeting on the high office holders um you know a very special feeling you
05:27know with independence we can see it on your face and the commissioner as well I told you I told
05:33you you
05:33and Jackie is uh you need to work with a special branch you know oh you look yeah I mean
05:37listen I will say
05:39this Mr Ali yes many persons um if given the opportunity I'm sure yes to be in places and positions
05:46where you
05:47you are representing Trinidad and Tobago and the citizens at large in your way shape and form and
05:53of course you're in a place where you're greeted with individuals where they are standing in you
05:59know in a position of service to the communities throughout the country yes and if we are able to
06:05do that if given the opportunity we'll be glad that everyone may have that access to the room so when
06:09you do
06:11well we have to we have to and when we know people that do you have to be a little
06:15bit boozy well I
06:16realize that's a strong statement you're making as well you know and it's how I view in that you know
06:20you're giving me some very strong advice to say Mr Ali keep putting Trinidad and Tobago at the forefront
06:25you know and I will continue to do that even us as citizens it's not just being in the spotlight
06:29or
06:29being in a certain room you know yes we have to show our character as Trinbegonians yes in any room
06:36or space
06:37that we in where persons are looking and may not be looking that is very important that we need to
06:42understand certainly and then when we give service to the country yes we have to do do it in a
06:47selfless
06:48manner and I agree with you in terms of you know we're always putting Trinidad and Tobago first and
06:52you know you know just to go back to that independence day was where as I said very special day
06:56and
06:56you know I really urge all office holders and by extension all of Trinidad and Tobago you know
07:01to really recognize you know how fortunate we are sometimes you know and to really you know play our
07:07role make our contribution and you know this will take me straight into you know recognizing the
07:10citizens of Trinidad and Tobago and I wish you a belated happy independence I know Republic Day is
07:15just a couple weeks away but let us understand what this means you know let us understand what
07:19this means in terms of the significance the opportunity to be independent that's a very serious matter
07:25and you know let us enjoy that a lot of places while some may not be enjoying that level of
07:31independence
07:32some who have independence are not really independent so it's something that we need to look at and
07:36you know when you look at independence my final point in terms of this introductory remark is that
07:40those rights and shrine rights that we enjoy this freedom of expression is so sacred there are other parts
07:46of the world you cannot express yourself any way that you could lock up that's the point you know so
07:50very sacred
07:51rights but you know it's always a pleasure I salute Trinidad and Tobago I took to Trinidad and Tobago so
07:55you know I take this water
07:56and be toasted Trinidad and Tobago may God bless us with many more happy independence um as we go
08:02forward so thank you very much can I salute you well I did it with ASP Russell well you know
08:07it might be
08:07what you got for me well you know I would want a little firm in terms of when you're saluting
08:12to
08:12ensure that we're uniform and you see it attorney at law because it's legally speaking wednesdays yeah so
08:17we're gonna dive straight in because we have a lot to discuss certainly and we're seeing that crime is
08:22something that is not just happening in Trinidad and Tobago Mr Ali is something that we're seeing
08:26through all the islands and we are not new to seeing this but i'm sure the islands that are now
08:32being exposed to what sometimes they may be protecting from the eyes of others is what they
08:38are going to just like us and i mean this in particular
08:46now Mr Ali to our viewers discretion here it is very disturbing to watch on his side to see this
08:55is
08:57a man who is being gunned down in front of his son in broad daylight and this is in the
09:05bahamas
09:09we don't just have demons in Trinidad and Tobago we have them throughout the islands as well and around
09:19the world
09:19we sound alone Mr Ali yeah these are when you look at the number of persons that are involved and
09:24what
09:25appears to be very high powered weapons you know um we'll come back to the intention to kill very
09:29clear intention to kill in terms of the number of shots that were fired and you were indicating offset
09:33you know in terms of where it appeared that they were looking at you know the headshots yes um very
09:37serious matter very serious statement but the number of persons you see in that organization you
09:42see in that gang element and may say that um not only Trinidad and Tobago but you know the intelligence
09:48would have suggested that when we're looking at organized crime and gang crime you know it's
09:52across the caribbean yes um and it's important for every single caribbean country to recognize the
09:57importance of dealing with organized crime crime and criminality because some of these guns and ammunition
10:01who knows whether it may have been you know trafficked through Trinidad or whether at some point
10:06in time if it's not um seized by law enforcement can find its way into Trinidad and Tobago but very
10:11significant matters very serious matters and it's important for us in Trinidad and Tobago to look at
10:17these videos and learn from these videos or to let these videos inspire us to continue to dig deeper to
10:24rid
10:25the criminal elements of these high-powered rifles and also to arrest persons who may be similarly
10:29circumstance who incline to commit these times of crimes and may i say that in the past this is
10:35not new to Trinidad and Tobago we have seen some incident that resembles this yes you know so we
10:39have more capacity in Trinidad and Tobago for this sort of activities as well but like you said um every
10:45place in the globe is being challenged with crime and criminality and it's important for us to continue to
10:49do our part yes all right now in the case of traffic yes let's head into traffic because we understand
10:55we
10:55have some new toys i'd like to call it toys but it really is where persons are now able when
11:01it comes
11:02to um the lanes that confuses a lot of persons in the st joseph area the transport and civil aviation
11:08commission the reversible lane control system along the eastern main road between mount lambert and
11:13st joseph now the ministry of transport and civilization has officially commissioned the reversible lane
11:21control system along the eastern main road between mount lambert and st joseph marking a significant
11:28advancement in traffic management in trinidad and tobago the initiative forms part of the ministry's
11:34border effort to optimize existing and infrastructure and improve the efficiency and safety of the nation's
11:42transportation network and i believe this should work because it's needed miss ali it is needed so a job well
11:51done there well let me join you immediately and build on your your your commendation to the various
11:55agencies um that is or are responsible agency or agencies that are responsible for the installation of
12:02um these clear markings what i will want to urge you and i am also familiar with this particular area
12:08that there was definitely a need for clear marking yes and in in very important um for the motorists
12:15to be aware and also to pay attention to these signs to ensure that they are in compliance at all
12:20times but very significant development a very significant move and it also executes the duty of
12:25care that the state has for the motorists in trinidad and tobago so could you imagine you're moving
12:30along the roadway but you're not certain as to whether it's a do always and so forth but this now
12:35creates clear directions clear indications and i urge the citizenry to take note of the um the changes
12:43or the the markings that will guide you in relation to what the nation roads is concerned so thank you
12:48very much
12:48clear we're going to bring more clarity to you now with this video so please pay attention
13:00in a bustling country like ours traffic congestion can bring our daily lives to a standstill
13:06but what if there was a solution to ease this gridlock and keep traffic flowing smoothly
13:12introducing reversible lanes a game-changing solution for managing traffic flow during peak hours by
13:19dynamically changing the direction of certain lanes based on the time of day we can significantly
13:25reduce congestion and improve traffic efficiency with the electronic overhead indicators drivers will
13:32no longer be confused as to what lane is available to them at the present moment with easy visible clarity
13:39with reversible lanes we can maximize the use of existing road space reduce travel times and enhance
13:46safety for drivers and pedestrians alike so let's embrace innovation embrace efficiency and embrace
13:53reversible lanes to keep our motorways moving forward because when it comes to tackling traffic congestion
14:00every minute save makes a difference reversible lanes the key to unlocking seamless traffic flow in our city
14:11get in your lane
14:17that's right get in your lane the reversible lanes mr ali this something's definitely going to help us well i
14:23love
14:23the word innovation i love i love when we are thinking you know and looking at you know different ways
14:28of doing things and you know
14:29i look at a very simple term this is what they call adopting and i've spoken about crime adopting a
14:34fluid approach
14:35this is a fluid approach because it means that at any point in time the irreversible lane so that it
14:40may
14:40have been a lane that you go heading north but because of circumstances whether it be traffic
14:44congestion whether it be other um challenges you can also you can have a reverse correct and you know um
14:50things can happen yeah so we have no issues it's a brilliant move and let's let's let's embrace it and
14:55as a critical well let's embrace it but let us be responsible how we enjoy it yes and um the
15:02transport
15:02transport and aviation website is available for you as well and there's social media where you could also
15:08go and see for yourself to just you know make sure you understand what is taking place because the worst
15:14thing to do is be confused on the nation's roads yeah certainly and that's why i believe in the public
15:18education as well as we go along with especially when you're testing things that may be new correct you
15:24know you need to get accustomed and understand what's happening but they need to be effectively
15:28and efficiently managed to ensure that there's success in the process well we have some sad news
15:33at this time where um some information received from the trinidad express along with captain rambarat as
15:40well nobody found and news now police are investigating the discovery of skeletal human remains in a deserted area of
15:48bellerone drive mission road freeport on tuesday night the remains were discovered around 8 pm after police
15:55received information from an anonymous source about a decomposing body in the area officers from the central
16:03division task force area south walked 20 feet along the southern side of the roadway and found the skeletal
16:10remains police said the remains were clad in an orange jersey pink bra and what appeared to be blue jeans
16:17the
16:18skull was found approximately 10 feet from the body police also found a rope approximately seven feet
16:24along with a noose hanging from a tree directly above the remains now her body was found four kilometers from
16:32her home police said attempts were made to conduct inquiries in the area but these proved
16:39fertile as the location was deserted well with me very unfortunate yes information but i i i want to say
16:48this here that with information that we received also from captain rambarat with the body being formed
16:54we were able to identify who the individual was and it was elizabeth davis and we just want to send
17:00condolences to the family and i'm sure when it comes to um finding out more information of what transpired
17:07here as much as captain ramarat could give us he will inform us on monday when he returns to the
17:13show again condolences to the family well let me join with you with condolences to the family as well and
17:17you
17:18know the hunters rescue team you know um i always look at them for the commitment and dedication to
17:22support law enforcement agencies but i'll extend it to indicate that any person who may have information or
17:27intelligence with reference to this particular incident yes um you know be expeditious in providing the information and
17:35intelligence in relation to these matters but to the family condolences um i hope you're receiving
17:41the necessary support um because these things are not easy things to digest you know i do not know the
17:46the um the disease slash victim but you know it's important that we look at it with a dual context
17:53in
17:53terms of looking at it from a looking to solve if in fact there was a crime and criminality that
17:58is
17:58concerned or if there's a need to intervene any family for any psychosocial support that they may require
18:04whether there may be children in any circumstances these are things that we need to look at because
18:07at the end of the day um you know trauma yes very very serious matter so you know unfortunate
18:13circumstance with me yeah now the cat and mouse game continues yes mr ali when it comes to the
18:19criminal elements and the ttps and according to the media release from the ttps police is firearm ammunition
18:25and ecstasy in dago martin officers of the western division gang and intelligence unit conducted an
18:33anti-crime exercise in the dago martin area on tuesday september 1st 2026 which resulted in the
18:40seizure of a firearm ammunition on a quantity of dangerous drugs during the search officers discovered
18:47a black metal and plastic object bearing the markings glock 19 gen 5 which resembled a firearm
18:55the serial number was reportedly filed off the object was fitted with a magazine containing nine
19:01rounds of nine millimeter ammunition in a separate search of a nearby area officers also discovered
19:08a clear plastic bar containing approximately 7.9 grams of transparent rock-like substance resembling ecstasy
19:17a handheld two-way radio transceiver was also seized further searches were conducted at a known drug
19:25block in the river sd8 basketball court also mr road coven road and toyah street partner village no
19:33further illegal items were discovered inquiries into the item seized are continuing so with me congratulations
19:42congratulations to the the western division gang and intelligence unit um for you know a successful
19:48operation in terms of the item that they have seized the only thing i'll add to that release
19:52yes is basically asking the citizenry of chenland tobago having read the facts or defined as the case may be
19:59anyone who who have information or intelligence or evidence that the persons who may have been in
20:05possession constructive possession otherwise in relation to these items provide the information it's it will
20:12be even more commanding that you're not only retrieving the items but i always talk about the human element
20:18who continues to be responsible for these items that are all over trinidad and tobago case in point
20:24let's go back to what happened in the foreign land if i am were they shooting themselves no there's a
20:29human
20:29element behind it those items that were found in the bush how they reach that fell from the sky no
20:33someone
20:34placed it there someone in constructive possession someone know where it is someone is is is having
20:39possession of it to commit criminal activities so that human element let us as a citizenry let us flush those
20:45human elements out of the system within the rule of law of course yes so that you know we can
20:50take
20:50back our streets our communities and by extension our homes in some instances all right it's time for us to
20:56take a look at what's making our soe update as of september 2nd 2026 number of operations 12
21:041624 number of targets priority offenders 3231 searches conducted 4371 traffic operations
21:167,848 total persons arrested 5551 total persons charged 1314 firearms recovered we are seeing an increase
21:29with the pistols once again giving us a total of 306 ammunition recovered we're seeing an increase
21:35with the nine millimeter and that is a total of 6282 i showed us a contribution from indigo martin um
21:42seizure and dangerous drug sees we are seeing an increase with grams of cocaine along with ecstasy
21:50which again clearly is from that seizure that took place indigo martin but well you know i salute the
21:57partnership between city citizenry of trinand tobago and law enforcement for the statistics but i just
22:01want to be a little critical whitney you know i like to just engage you and probably a little bit
22:04and jackie as well so that dangerous drug sees yes and let's go to the ear of ecstasy let's
22:10conjunct it with what you would have read a short while ago did they retrieve any ecstasy in the
22:14operation in western division yes they did so i um probing you know your gut self i'm probing jackie
22:22i'm probing the persons who may be responsible for the statistics to determine whether in fact
22:28the 44 pills of ecstasy whether in fact accommodates this recent fine or whether that should be adjusted
22:35to ensure that we have some accuracy in relation to these statistics yes well it would be a mix so
22:41because they said it was transparent rock-like substance resembling ecstasy so i guess okay they
22:46could say that's why they could place it under pain yeah yeah yeah you know you like full details
22:50mr ali you know there's the site to prove you a little bit you know yeah i pay attention to
22:56your
22:56statistics and what you're reading you know so yes but but i must say excellent response as well yes
23:00the fact that it was opinionated it means that there may not have been a conclusive determination
23:04that is in fact ecstasy so they take a very balanced position is it substantial not i use it no
23:10no no
23:10yes since it's substantial it had be conclusive determination that is in fact that um because
23:15it resembles it resembles it resembles or it's your your formal opinion that it resembles the dangerous
23:21drug just to be clear all right time to look at our headlines
23:42and those are your stories making today's headlines remember you could give us a call at 623-1711
23:48extension 1996 or 1997 we'll be back
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26:00the mega hit comedy scandal in cedrus is back for one final night we thought we were done but you
26:06demanded it so we're having one final show of the record-breaking play at queen's hall on saturday the
26:1212th of september at 8 30 pm scandal in cedrus you know it's the number one comedy of 2026 tickets
26:18at 250 general and 300 reserve and are available at queen's hall and our usual outlet and on our
26:24website rsrrproductions.com it's our last performance don't miss it the tough truths the uncomfortable
26:34questions the conversations others avoid we turn to experts unafraid to go there investigating what's
26:41hidden exposing what's ignored tackling the issues that matter mental health poverty criminal justice
26:48from the courtroom to the classroom no topic is off limits no agenda no bias real stories real people real
27:15change
27:16and we are back and of course you're now joining us we have mr ali here with our attorney at
27:21law and
27:22director we have a caller on our caller good evening good evening good evening
27:29thank you sir thank you sir um um i have a recommendation in this morning in this morning i went
27:38to
27:38tiago airport for my grandson who i have seen for seven minutes
27:46what was a strange one minute of the first time
27:52a guy's call
27:55and he felt me wrong
27:59and when i saw what was going on my son was a watered scar
28:04so i was actually dead he took a car a rainy half-cadded into the park
28:10and i had fallen forward to the class citizen
28:15I was told to go out to take my feet, but at the beginning of the year, I took her
28:20to take action.
28:22So I called another officer, and he was going to follow me forward.
28:27So I told her that it was a really hard way.
28:30Apparently, the person who was in his head did not go out of the spring, but she was a threat
28:35of death.
28:37I was my son in T4, and asked him to do what to require.
28:44The side and the response, my national contribution to the state is that we have three partners
28:57who are doctors and have a skin and a man.
29:03Because in the 15th, I was about 15 years old.
29:08And from my 14 years, I was about to go back and take that back before the anniversary.
29:16So can you force the side of the highly-leveled country to upgrade that system for your capital
29:24international support in the day?
29:27And if you let that happen, you don't have adequate support to us.
29:34Thank you so much, Ms. Ali.
29:38Thank you very much, Kola.
29:39Kola, let me join with Whitney and the entire citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago.
29:42We now spoke about independence.
29:44And to you and your family, the contribution that your son made in that particular situation,
29:49I want to salute you this afternoon.
29:50As a matter of fact, I would like you to leave your number.
29:53I would like to call you directly and perhaps arrange for a meeting or discussion
29:57with the Honorable Minister of Homeland Security as well.
29:59I think those are significant things.
30:01Those are the things that we need to highlight.
30:03You know, that good Samaritan, that civic duty, that responsibility.
30:07You may not have been under legal duty, you, but you did in fact render aid.
30:11And perhaps your son may have been under legal duty.
30:13I do not know the full facts, but you ought to be saluted.
30:16And the call that you have made for that support system to be in the airport, it's a very strong
30:22call.
30:22Very strong.
30:23I think that if we look deeply, there may be persons who are trained, if not units, within the airport
30:29for Trinity.
30:30But I understand the point that you're making in terms of ensuring that there are vigilance
30:35and there's easy proximity or access or persons should be alert because, as you rightly indicated,
30:43the movement of persons from all parts of the world, I should say,
30:47or persons moving from Trinidad and Tobago on a smaller scale.
30:50I think that is very important.
30:51But I salute you this afternoon.
30:53And may God continue to bless you and your family and that person whom have required that care.
30:57I do not know the state of that person, but I also wish you, if you have not already recovered,
31:02I wish you a quick recovery.
31:04And may God continue to bless all of us.
31:06Yes.
31:07Now, could we speak now on the youth and youth forum that took place last week, Thursday,
31:13before we dive into, for persons to see a little bit more at what happened there?
31:18Whitney, that was very emotional for me.
31:20Why is that?
31:21And I'll tell you why.
31:23Had I not had the right people around me as a young man, I may not have been on the
31:28platform
31:29and I want to be as blunt and straight as possible.
31:31And at the youth forum, when I got the opportunity to give some remarks
31:35in the presence of a very important cross-section of the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago,
31:39the Honourable Minister of Homeland, the Honourable Minister of Education,
31:42the Honourable Minister of Social Development,
31:44and the Minister, another Minister in the Ministry of Social Development,
31:49one of the things that I said, and, you know, evidence there,
31:52one of the things that I said, and also, you know, international agencies as well,
31:55part of the University of the West Indies and other persons there,
31:57one of the things that I highlighted at that forum is that my parents, at 11 years old,
32:04had they not exposed me to the right people, I may not have had a career in cricket,
32:09I may not have had an opportunity to attend a prestigious school,
32:12I may not have had the opportunity to think differently and be resilient in situations.
32:16So that's why it was very humbling for me and very emotional at that forum
32:23where the young people of this country who are asking to be heard was given an opportunity
32:27to come round a table, to speak to us, to express, to indicate, to be part of decision-making,
32:33to be part of policy reform, and to ensure that we have and build a strong foundation for the future.
32:39Whitney, we have spoken on this platform about prevention of crime and building our nation youth,
32:44and I know you are very powerful and very strong in that as well, and you have your role as
32:47well to play.
32:48And Jackie, thank you very much for highlighting some of these images,
32:52because I want the citizenry who's looking on to understand that if you have an opportunity,
32:56whether it be home, whether it be by your neighbour, whether in your community,
33:00and school is going to reopen soon, please play your role.
33:03These young people are looking for role models, they're looking for mentorship,
33:06and we need to support them and give them the opportunity to be heard.
33:09And, you know, to build on this, in a couple hours' time,
33:13there's going to be another initiative of high, high value that we are executing
33:18to build on this national forum, because it's not going to be a one-off national forum,
33:21but I want to see this manifest into serious law reform, policy reform, institutional reform.
33:28So I want to salute all the stakeholders that were involved, many stakeholders, both state and non-state actors,
33:33international agencies, the steering committee, a very powerful committee that we put together
33:38to be able to execute it, and, you know, I must give credit to the Honourable Minister of Homeland
33:42and all the ministers that join him.
33:44When you see government ministers, Whitney, responding and coming down,
33:49it is, in fact, inspiring as well, because they sit in very strategic positions.
33:53So if a decision has to be made, they are right, they are seen for themselves.
33:56And that's how we need to shape and move and cause change in Trinidad and Tobago.
33:59But thank you very much for the opportunity to showcase and share the work that has been done
34:05by both state, and I want to stress, and non-state actors. I want to stress that.
34:11All right. We need to take that break. When we come back, we'll continue with more after this.
35:44nasal congestion impacting energy levels and overall well-being the choice is clear a great
35:52morning starts with neomed sinus rinse now i can't imagine starting my day without it all natural
35:58sinus relief
36:31but who is this
36:58and welcome back to beyond the tape of course we have mr ali here with us as we continue the
37:05conversation now we have a call on but before we go to the question i had asked what i had
37:12please say for you which is very important let's take that call because i don't want to get in
37:15trouble okay caller good evening hi
37:23um
37:52when they finish duty what do they take home
37:57or they used to used to right used to in the past
38:04when these guys take them to a gun do they find some sort of a document taken
38:14up these guns would not be used for their personal services doing like pj and
38:23because there are officers who can't even work who have made personal security for
38:34big business implementation
38:49Thank you very much Kola, a very sensitive question and I want to you know
38:53respond to it in a very sensitive way as well. The term that you I think that you
38:59were endeavoring to use is what they call a keep and carry. Right. So you're
39:03performing your duty and then when your duty comes and then because of the
39:07circumstances in which you may be in and I don't want to say risk but I'm using
39:10circumstances which may be risk the area that you're working maybe I need to
39:14respond many different considerations the Commission of Police may give the
39:19permission for you to proceed because of the circumstances that you're in. The
39:23issue that you raise in terms of where and how do you treat with that fire in
39:27terms of from a private context that's a very strong position that you have placed
39:32on my shoulder and all I will say is that the Trinidad and Tobago police service
39:37should listen to your call and ensure that there's a very strong policy when
39:43the Commissioner exercises such a discretion that whether in writing
39:46expressly or otherwise that these officers should be certain that if you are using
39:50the government property to in the context of a keep and carry and for the
39:56situation that they are weighing in other words in order to respond to official
39:59duty your risk factor and so forth really you shouldn't be in my respect of you
40:04engaging in a private context with the with the with the weapon but that has to
40:08be grounded you know in policy very clear instructions from the police
40:11Commissioner and issue downwards but I think it's a very healthy discussion to
40:16say that I can you know point a particular policy perhaps there's one but you have
40:21no you know I'm induced me I should if I should say that to be able to look into
40:26that direction and see whether in fact there's a policy if not and I can
40:29probably write if not to the Honorable Minister of Homeland or I directly to the
40:32Police Commissioner and the executive and probably ask a question because it's a
40:35very significant matter and when it becomes a significant matter with me yes
40:39is not you know there's a scene that all goes well ends well yes let if that
40:43person allegedly goes on performing a private function and that weapon is fired or
40:49that weapon is lost then you see the significance in terms of question being
40:53asked in terms of well what were you supposed to do without weapon where
40:56should you be without weapon what should you not be doing without weapon and
41:01many questions and only then it becomes an issue so persons out there let me use
41:06this opportunity that those who may be enjoying an opportunity or privilege or
41:10right to have a keep and carry which is government property and for very
41:14specific considerations please review your activities and ensure that you are
41:19within or running within the the the justification for why you have defined
41:24because that is basically what's the consideration risk your circumstances where
41:29you have to respond for example a person may go on duty but their line of duty
41:33requires that at any point in time you may have to call to move yeah so that you
41:36know it creates some level of convenience for you or you yourself may have an
41:39inherent risk based on your duties and responsibilities but you are
41:42thinking and that is where we need to raise the bar in terms of how we hold our law
41:47enforcement agents it's responsible especially with something we'll be
41:50calling if I am yes and they're looking to apply it in another context but
41:54significant matter all right we have another call on hold caller good evening
42:00good evening good evening good evening to you sir
42:14you
42:15you
42:16okay
42:17and
42:19you
42:20and
42:21yeah
42:23a
42:25yeah
42:25yeah
42:36I
42:38My question is, if you are on the screen, let's believe you.
42:44In the personal broadest view, HTHO, the most important thing that you have come to,
42:51let's believe you that one somebody ends up my own office.
42:57Is there any difference in that?
43:00Is there any difference in that?
43:01Is there any difference in that?
43:02Is there any difference in that?
43:05Is there any difference in that?
43:08Is there any difference in that?
43:18Well, thank you very much, Kola.
43:20And you know, Kola, this is how, as I always say when people ask about the,
43:24the grongs in which someone can use deadly force,
43:26I always take them to the, even before the home invasion law.
43:30There was a criminal law act that, and even the law of self-defense,
43:33talk about a person, and you all may not want to hear this term,
43:35but a person may use such force as reasonable in these circumstances
43:40if his life, or deadly force if his life is in danger or the life of somebody else.
43:45That is, you're weighing that in a particular state of affairs
43:48and every situation will have to be judged on its own merit.
43:51And using reasonable force, which may be deadly force,
43:54if you are met with deadly force, you can use that.
43:57But it's about circumstances at the point in time where, as I said,
44:00every situation will have to be weighed.
44:02And you know, the interesting thing is, sometimes we pose these questions
44:04like in this case to me.
44:07But when you use the force, the police will come and they will investigate the matter
44:10to see whether, in fact, it was justified.
44:13And sometimes if it's not, sometimes it's placed to a DPP,
44:15sometimes an inquest, sometimes even go to the court.
44:17So there are other persons who now will have to sit and look at these circumstances.
44:22But the key is that the law, the criminal law act, and also the self-defense
44:26are now in the home invasion, it spells out clearly on those who have not read the home invasion act.
44:31I will urge you to go have a look at the home invasion act, look at it in detail,
44:36and you will see exactly how it's answering your questions.
44:39And there's a particular area in that legislation that actually speaks to the things
44:44that the decision maker will have to consider, whether a court,
44:48or whether the DPP's office, or whether the police,
44:50things that they will have to consider in determining whether you were justified
44:53in these circumstances when you use deadly force.
44:56So my advice to you is let, be guided by the law, seek knowledge,
45:01and this is an area that I think is ripe.
45:04I had done one or two sessions with different agencies,
45:06but it's an area that we need to look into in terms of understanding that home invasion,
45:11understanding use of force, understanding the use of self-defense,
45:14because they are significant matters.
45:16But it's not something that you can just take a ruler,
45:18and you measure every circumstance and say, okay, this is the situation.
45:21Because as a lawyer, as a lawyer, I can look at circumstances
45:26and look at ways in which you can answer the law based on the factual scenario.
45:30But every situation must be judged on its merit.
45:33But when you say use reasonable force, if you are met with deadly force,
45:38you can return deadly force.
45:40That is reasonable.
45:41That is proportionality.
45:42If you are not met with deadly force, then if you use deadly force,
45:46a decision maker may find that you are using excessive force or unjustifiable force.
45:51So your circumstances must be weighed carefully.
45:55And again, I want to urge you, have a read of the Home Invasion Act,
46:00the Criminal Law Act, and the Common Law as it relates to self-defense.
46:02It's going to guide you properly.
46:04But I cannot stand here, as I always said.
46:05And those who stand here and try to give a conclusive pronouncement,
46:10just on mere facts, bare facts, there are so many things,
46:13and I'll engage you on something, just to make the point.
46:16When you indicate that someone may have stepped in on a particular circumstance,
46:19if I should engage you and say, well, okay, what, is it time of the day or the time of
46:23the night?
46:25That in the self will already signal that, okay, how important maybe the conditions are
46:30that may have caused you to form an honest belief that deadly force is scaring you.
46:35But perhaps if it was in the day time, you probably have the opportunity to see better.
46:40So I'm just using that as the opportunity where circumstances has to be assessed properly
46:45in relation to answering that question.
46:46I think they make it very easy, just tweak it, the human vision.
46:51If you're big too, touch my property, that's it.
46:54Say that again?
46:54If you're big too, touches someone's property, Mr. Ali.
47:01No, Whitney.
47:01No, you're not supposed to be there.
47:03I am, Mr. Ali, I had the same thing with ASP, right?
47:06I believe, now this is just opinion, we speak in law here, and we're going with black and white,
47:12and that is what we are guided by.
47:14In a moment of persons being at home, and you are seeing an individual or any visual,
47:20because you're still not, you're not sure, or somebody in the back of your house,
47:22at the side of your house, and you're just seeing this one individual,
47:25is entering your property, a stranger, and they may not have a weapon that you could see,
47:30maybe day or night as a reference, because you can't make out what it says.
47:33Even if in any day, you're not sure, no one is waiting to see what you're going to do next,
47:39or let me make sure I pull out the human vision, act to make sure I'm doing everything according to
47:44this.
47:44It's either your life or my life.
47:46They are coming to take persons' lives.
47:48So let me give you an example with something.
47:50When you go out and get your driver's permit, you learn your regulation and do your driving test from there,
47:55then you're entrusted with the vehicle on your road.
47:57So while I know that you're very emotional, and I cannot blame you for that,
48:00because I know how the citizens feel, but where we stand, if there's a four-corner document
48:06that governs how you should behave, what I want to say to you is that when you feel emotional and
48:11you use force,
48:12you see this four-corner document?
48:14Yes.
48:14In the first instance, the police are going to come at it because they're having time and say,
48:18let me see what's happening here.
48:19Right.
48:19They're going to interview you, and if you see if you're not in compliance here,
48:22you're going to find that all that emotion that you have, you have to be paying lawyers,
48:26you have to be befending yourself.
48:27But I understand that you'll be charged, but I'm saying that we are still governed by the rule of law,
48:33and look at the circumstances.
48:35Now, I do not want to stand here, Whitney.
48:37Before I get in trouble, hold on.
48:38No, but you're right.
48:39No, we're going to continue, but let us take that break,
48:41because when we come back, you can amend things in that black and white to make it easier.
48:45We'll be back.
48:46Okay.
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51:07And we are back now, Mr. Ali, quickly with what we were discussing
51:10because I know we have some callers and they are waiting patiently.
51:14Documentation.
51:16Legislation.
51:16The black and white that guides us.
51:18All I'm saying, simply make a footnote.
51:22Literal.
51:23If you're big too, and anything that a stranger's body part is on someone's property,
51:31you have all right to deal with them accordingly.
51:34Because you should not be there.
51:35Well, in that context, Whitney, as a citizen of this country, as a member of the media,
51:39I can accommodate you if you are advocating for legislative change
51:43to ensure that you have more teeth to be able to defend yourself.
51:46So I can entertain that.
51:46But as it stands now, my lady, we are governed by the rule of law
51:51and I will urge you and every single citizen,
51:54if there's one thing I don't want to do is misrepresent that law,
51:57read that law and be guided by law.
51:59And just I just want to bring it into context.
52:01Because I normally don't go to the law, but this afternoon you're forcing me to go to the law, right?
52:05Yes, because I say you also should put...
52:06In the way that I should go to the law.
52:07Yes.
52:07And I just want to read just three lines just to guide you the callers.
52:11And those who want to re-look at Section 6 of the Home Invasion, Self-Defense and Defense of Property
52:16Act,
52:18and I want to read where determining whether the defensive force use was reasonable in these circumstances,
52:23the court shall take into account the nature of the force or threat that you were facing,
52:27the extent to which the use of force was eminent,
52:30and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force,
52:34the occupant's role in the incident,
52:36and whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon or firearm or any explosive device.
52:41And it goes on and on.
52:42So why I'm just triggering this.
52:44Read this particular Section 6.2,
52:47and you will be educated as to the number of things that a court may have to consider
52:51when you use deadly force or you use reasonable force or defensive force.
52:55This is the things that the court will consider to determine whether you are justified.
52:59So what the court is doing, they're going to now balance your actions
53:03with what the circumstances was to really determine.
53:05So for the law to go to this extent, Whitney, I want to urge the citizenry, I'm begging you all,
53:11it's very hard to be ignorant to the law, and you may be emotional in these circumstances.
53:17And in Whitney's case, I want to agree with you, my lady,
53:20that if we feel that the law is not sufficient to protect the homeowner,
53:24like in any lawful process, let us advocate and see if we can move our parliament,
53:29and according to Whitney, if your toe enters your property,
53:34give you the power to use deadly force in that circumstances,
53:37whatever the situation.
53:39Whitney, you will be a hell of a lawmaker.
53:42We have a call, a call, a good evening.
53:45Good.
53:49Good evening to you, sir.
53:51Sir, I respect you so much, so much for me to ask you to determine whether you are there.
53:57I know it's not, but this is all in Asia, no matter how it is.
54:02Do not tell me my daughter or my kids.
54:04My wife, I believe my daughter, I am here with you.
54:07I am not with God.
54:09Say what I have put here, I am not with God.
54:12Say what I am, what I am.
54:42All right, Mr. Ali.
54:44The frustration of the law-abiding citizens there.
54:47Well, thank you very much, Kola.
54:48And, Kola, again, I feel emotions because a man's castle, Whitney, is an important...
54:53That is where he has to ensure that he enjoys the best of comfort, right?
54:56And especially where he's speaking about family where, you know, persons are coming to his home and, you know, invading
55:01that privacy and, you know, coming into his castle.
55:03All I will say to you, like what the law said in simple terms,
55:07use the force that is reasonable in the circumstances that is facing you and your family.
55:14And if it's deadly force facing you, match it with deadly force.
55:19That's all I'm saying.
55:20But you weigh your circumstances.
55:22As a lawyer, I will look at us and I know how to write.
55:24I know what to say.
55:25I cannot do what I have to do here on public television.
55:28But apply the facts to the law.
55:30Apply the facts to the law.
55:31It's like I...
55:32And I don't need to state no more.
55:34It's like a rubber band.
55:35Apply the facts to the law.
55:36Apply the law to the facts.
55:38Read through the lines.
55:39No, yeah.
55:40I mean, you're basically saying in legal terms what ASP Russell was saying as well.
55:45And the circumstances, they may not be there, but you have to weigh your options in the moment.
55:49And in some cases, like previous scholars before, including the gentleman who called, said,
55:55Well, we will deal with it when that time comes, but you're not going with any of my family members
55:59or myself.
56:00And I mentioned that you can't blame them because persons are frustrated.
56:05We have seen elderly persons, even fathers, mothers, grandmothers taken away from us while they're at home.
56:12You took the items already.
56:14Oh gosh, leave.
56:15Yeah.
56:16But you see the point that I want to drive across with me is that while I know that we
56:19may be heightened in emotions, and rightly so,
56:22because I feel the pulse of the nation.
56:23I can be home as well and, you know, be met with home invasion, and I will want the best.
56:28But I'm just saying to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, take the time and educate yourself.
56:34And you know, a former commissioner once told me that knowledge is power.
56:38So if you want to be powerful in your home, in the back of your mind, you must have an
56:42understanding as to how this law operates.
56:45And once you understand how the law operates, like, oh, let's look at it like a vehicle.
56:48If you start to understand a vehicle, you'll get maximum from the vehicle.
56:51But if you don't understand the vehicle, you're not going to get maximum from the vehicle.
56:54So empower yourself, know the law so you can fit the law properly in a given state of affairs,
57:00and you won't be ignorant and then say, boy, you know, I didn't know, you know, no, I want you
57:04to be in the know.
57:05So that's why I'm advocating so passionately. I want you to be in the know.
57:08If I could have addressed 1.3 million people in a forum to be built for you to understand that,
57:15to fight those criminal elements, I will do it for you all.
57:17But I just want you all not to be misrepresenting the law.
57:20And then you'll find yourself on the other side and then say, look, look what's happening.
57:23Yes, we have a few seconds you could mention what is, that will be happening, I believe it's Friday.
57:28Yes, Friday, we have a very important execution with me at the Radisson Hotel in terms of looking at our
57:32nation youth.
57:33And there are two significant things that we are looking at.
57:36We are looking at an audio-video publication to be able to inspire and motivate our nation youth.
57:41And also, secondly, an announcement where I am going to make a dear address in relation to, again,
57:47further empowering the youths of Trinidad and Tobago.
57:50But as always, thank you for your support. I hope to see you there on Friday.
57:53Yeah, we have to, what time it begins?
57:55Between 1 and 3.
57:56Okay, so you have to make that at least a present, yeah.
57:58So, Mr. Ali, thank you so much for being here with us, as usual.
58:01And, of course, to give us the information and knowledge that is needed.
58:05If you'd like to thank Mr. Ali up next to get ready for news at 7.
58:08You all be safe, enjoy the rest of your evening, and God bless.
58:11We're out.
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58:32We're out.