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00:00and he is uh i'll call him the godfather of sports because i think he's a godfather of the nfl
00:04for
00:05sure uh when it comes to news and information pro football talk is the bible his book big shield is
00:10out he is mike florio hi mike how are you hello mike doing great how are you guys hello hello
00:15hello
00:16are you good being the godfather i think i say that based on the the genre of your books i
00:20kind
00:21of want you to be the godfather of football knowledge in this country how's that sound
00:24to the extent that the term godfather strikes fear in the hearts of people for no apparent
00:30reason i'll take it i love it i love it all right what do you think of the trade are
00:35the browns
00:36actually credible after this thing i'm just curious to hear your take on this well there's an old saying
00:44and it actually traces to a deceased supreme court justice named felix uh felix frankfurter and i'm
00:51probably going to butcher it but basically wisdom often never arrives at all it's better that it
00:56come late the browns should have done this a year ago there was no reason when miles garrett made his
01:03stand in february of 2025 to be traded he did the whole radio row production put out the statement
01:10and the browns as they often do decide that if there's a problem let's just throw money at it they
01:16did it with deshaun watson when they were the first team out in the dance contest that
01:21ultimately resulted in the browns making watson an offer he couldn't refuse godfather reverence
01:25and with garrett they threw 40 million per year at him in new money average but once they did
01:31the contract adjustment earlier this year that delayed the option bonus from the middle of march
01:37until a week before the start of the regular season that was the clue see
01:42we've learned time and again and there should be no doubt moving forward to not believe anything
01:46anyone associated with the team says words are just words words are not binding nothing that you say
01:54can be held against you it's what you do that matters so andrew barry could have said a thousand
02:02times we're never trading and he's a career brown whatever it may be it means jack diddly squat what
02:07matters is what ultimately happens and that delaying of the option bonus was the clue that a trade was
02:13in play some of the other circumstantial evidence garrett staying away from the offseason program
02:18giving up a million dollars hadn't met new coach todd munkin and then boom it gets done so doesn't
02:24surprise me june one was the day we kind of had an inkling that something could happen because we
02:30posted over the weekend a very vague hey other than other than antonio brown other than aj brown excuse me
02:35what veterans could be traded and we laid out the whole miles garrett possibility i didn't think it would
02:41move as quickly as it did but once june one rolls around you still have an offseason program that's going
02:47why not get it done and get the new player in the fold as quickly as possible like the patriots
02:52did yesterday
02:53with brown and like the brand did yesterday with with garrett so i think it's a win-win because the
02:58rams
02:59are going for it now and the browns are doing what they should have done last year they get a
03:04one a two and a three
03:05and they get something better than a first round pick in jared verse when you consider what a first round
03:10pick is
03:10the first round pick is an unscratched lottery ticket jared verse is a scratched lottery ticket that's a winner
03:17that's better than a first round pick now maybe an unused first round pick could become a hall of famer
03:23and maybe verse will become a hall of famer in his own right but it's better than getting two ones
03:27a two and a three
03:28it's a one two a three and a proven used first round pick two years into his career that's a
03:35win
03:35for the browns mike is this too easy to or too narrow in looking at this trade they replaced a
03:44a phenomenal
03:44defensive end with a really good defensive end so you're not going to kill your defense
03:48while collecting assets to go get your quarterback is this all quarterback here
03:55well i think it's team 23 facts last year defensive player of the year what did they do
04:00for the browns what did they do five wins it didn't do anything for the browns it meant nothing
04:06and the cynical side of me i haven't written this yet i mentioned it on pft live this morning
04:11a year ago they were still trying to get their stadium deal done now they're not they broke ground
04:16now i know there's still an issue with the financing and the unclaimed property fund and they're going to
04:21get they're going to get their taxpayer money somewhere they're going to find some pot that can
04:26be rated for whatever the contribution from ohio is going to be a year ago it wasn't done so there's
04:34always an element of that in the game of stadium politics so you don't want to pitch your fans off
04:39when you have yet to get your deal for your new stadium now they have the deal for the new
04:44stadium
04:45well the fans may not like it but we're doing what's best for the team and this is what's best
04:49for the
04:49team by the time the team is good enough to be a high level competitor we're going to be beyond
04:53the prime of miles garrett he's 30 they've got a younger guy who does what he does and who knows
04:59how good jared verse can be maybe getting traded by the rams is the thing that's going to be
05:04you know the kick in the ass for him to be even better than he's been
05:09um i thought it was interesting miles simmons on your site you know talking about how the rams first
05:14started this process back in 2022 um and i just thought it was interesting that andrew was like
05:20oh no this just kind of came about and you know i didn't really you know we were had no
05:25plans on i
05:26i just thought what he said today that you know when they decided to restructure the contract that
05:32to me meant you know business is open across the league but i i was interested to read on your
05:37site
05:37about the fact that you know they've been talking about this since 2022 well and it could be as simple
05:43as the rams call the browns and say is miles garrett available they say no and they hang up
05:47you know there are a handful of guys in the nfl that are truly untradeable not many patrick mahomes
05:54josh allen there aren't many guys miles garrett used to be in that category aaron donald and his
06:00prime was in that category so there are guys who are not tradable until they are tradable they get to
06:06a certain age they get to a certain status and we just get to a point where the team views
06:12the
06:13player as every player is ultimately viewed every player on every nfl team is a piece in a football
06:20machine that eventually is going to break or be replaced for a cheaper newer piece and the teams
06:27have no emotional attachment they can act like they do when things are going well but eventually
06:33every player in that machine is going to be yanked out and replaced with another player and the browns
06:39have been the epitome since the paul de podesta era began and i know he's gone now but i think
06:45the
06:45fumes of his mindset treating football like a mathematic equation and trying to bring baseball
06:52analytics to the gridiron the idea of clinging to miles garrett last year didn't make any sense
06:57didn't make analytics sense at some point it makes sense to move on from this player sell high
07:03and and build for a future without him especially when you consider everything they gave up to get
07:08to sean watson the contract that he got obscured the fact that they sacrificed so many young cheap
07:16players to get him and now this trade replenishes some of that with verse and with the picks that
07:24haven't been used now with verse it's going to get expensive he's going to be eligible for a contract
07:27after this year his two pro bowl appearances will make his fifth year option significantly higher than
07:33maybe it would have been but still they get verse this year and if they want to kick the can
07:37through
07:382027 they get him for two years at a very affordable rate mike florio joining us from pro football talk
07:45his book big shield out right now you can go get that one if you're looking at the browns right
07:50now
07:51with verse it at defensive end okay fine that i would think that their defense should still be pretty good
07:57you look at their quarterback situation right now mike does anybody grab your attention you like
08:03anybody there well i'm not a practice so i don't know how any of them are meshing with what todd
08:12munkin wants to do there are indications from time to time that deshaun watson's in the lead
08:18i know that you know shader sanders is the younger and cheaper version watson is still there i think in
08:24large
08:24part because his contract required him to be there but it's the closest thing he was ever going to get
08:29to a clean slate in cleveland with a new head coach and he's healthy and look i don't know can
08:37deshaun
08:37watson turn the clock back to 2020 that's six years now but when you consider how the lawsuits that were
08:47filed starting in march of 21 how that loomed over him i i think they did how could it not
08:54affect him
08:54i i mean how does it not change your outlook on everything and maybe now that that is completely
08:59in the rearview mirror he's gone through the injury the physical reality has been more of a focus than
09:05the off field the mental and emotional stress that comes from having all those lawsuits having that
09:09stigma we've gotten past it now and it really does give him a clean slate and an opportunity
09:15to show what he can do he was drafted the same year as patrick mahomes and you take patrick mahomes
09:20right now in a heartbeat and people had him i've still got the it's right here the nolan narocki
09:24draft guide 2017 here it is right here he had narocki had deshaun watson ahead of patrick mahomes so
09:33watson was regarded now watson went two picks after mahomes but watson was regarded generally the better
09:39prospect than mahomes and he was not just rookie of the year candidate in 2017 there was some mvp buzz
09:45until he tore his acl in november so he can get back to the guy he was in 2020 they
09:50got enough
09:50pieces around them and they drafted well last year let's see how they drafted this year
09:54i think that that watson could be good enough to provide the right complement to the rest of the
10:01pieces they have and we'll see where it goes mike what does it say about andrew barry street credit
10:06trade like this well i think it's a big deal to get jared verse i think that's the thing that's
10:13been obscured in all of this when the tweet came out yesterday from the usual suspects that
10:18garrett had been traded i wasn't stunned when i saw jared verse i was stunned and it made me think
10:26all sorts of things i didn't know the whole story and of course the official story is
10:31the browns really wanted him and it was a deal breaker i just wonder what the rams really think
10:37of verse the rams know him better than anyone they've had him for the last two years i mean
10:42they don't think he's going to become miles garrett anytime soon they think 30 year old miles garrett
10:47is better right now than jared verse and they're willing to take miles garrett in a spot where he's
10:51never getting any better he's just going to begin to diminish over verse who is on the trajectory upward
10:57so i that that that i think is a is a coup for the browns assuming that verse is a
11:06guy who can
11:07blossom and continue to blossom but i think if the rams thought that they wouldn't have let verse go
11:12they would have come up with some other way to get miles garrett so i i think it i think
11:18it shows
11:18that the browns get it not trading garrett shows that they didn't get it and it was a mistake last
11:25year to not trading i think they did the right thing by acknowledging you know what as much as
11:30we'd like this guy to retire brown we have to do the right thing for the team it's time for
11:35this
11:35very expensive piece in the football machine to be removed and replaced with younger cheaper pieces
11:40you like the rams philosophy on the way they go about their business hey give us players not picks
11:46they have won a super bowl yes they have but but but it gets back to what i said earlier
11:51every unused draft pick is an unscratched lottery ticket go buy 7-eleven or whatever the equivalent
11:59is in your area you get that lottery ticket and when that silver metallic paint hasn't been touched
12:06the possibilities are endless once you take that quarter and scratch off the edge
12:11then you find out whether it's a winner so you know the idea that we're going to take proven talent
12:18and we're going to surround the proven talent with mid to low level draft picks that we're confident
12:25we're going to hit on and those guys are going to be even cheaper than our first and second round
12:28picks that's how the rams had built this team i mean they got pooping a cool in round five for
12:33crying
12:33out loud so yeah you have it can't just be we're only going to build our team with aging expensive
12:41veterans you need to be able to build around that team with draft picks where you hit and you develop
12:49it's not just draft it's draft and develop and you have the right culture and you build the right team
12:55so it's worked for the rams when you look at the last 10 years the only first round pick that
13:00they
13:00use that's still on the team is ty simpson the guy they just drafted with the 13th overall pick
13:05in late april and i i wonder if the rams accelerated their efforts to get garrett because of the blowback
13:13from not taking advantage of that 13th overall pick that's the aaron donald spot that's where
13:18they got donald in 2014 i mean that's a potential impact player that you can get it's going to help
13:22you close the gap with the seahawks ty simpson isn't going to help you do that i wonder how much
13:27of an extra impetus they got to try to go get miles garrett once and for all when you know
13:32they heard all
13:33the criticism and more importantly they heard that the 49ers and the seahawks were giddy that
13:39they didn't use the 13th pick on a guy that's going to make them better right now mike i thought
13:44it was
13:45interesting they used you in first as a day in new england to not talk about uh mike variable and
13:50they found another story how about aj brown and your thoughts on him going to the patriots
13:54well we knew this thing was coming for weeks it had gotten to the point where and i think the
13:59moment
14:00that the eagles traded up and drafted makai lemon in round one that's when i included there's a deal
14:06in place between the eagles and the patriots and i think the caveat was if the eagles get a better
14:11offer they're going to take it and the patriots were comfortable they weren't going to get a better
14:14offer because nobody was giving up a first round pick for aj brown if aj brown didn't want to go
14:18play
14:19for that team even without a no trade clause for a high priced player where you're going to have to
14:25give up a first round pick to get him you better be damn sure he wants to play for you
14:29because you
14:29don't want to give up your first round pick for a headache so i think the patriots were confident
14:33that it was going to end the way it started deal for a 20 28 first round pick who knows
14:39when the
14:39fifth rounder got thrown on to close it out and the only leverage the eagles had was the fact that
14:45the patriots could get him yesterday slam the page to the next chapter and get aj brown there where
14:52there's still three weeks left in the offseason program to get his feet wet in the josh mcdaniel's
14:56offense so brown instantly becomes the number one receiver romeo doggs who they signed in free
15:01agency becomes number two beyond that the depth chart gets interesting where does mac hollins land
15:06you have pop douglas i think keshawn booty is going to be traded kyle williams needs to step up or
15:11he's
15:11going to be stepping off they have a an embarrassment of riches now at the depth chart at receiver and
15:17the
15:17reality is after the first three or four guys you better be playing special teams or you're not going
15:21to have a job you like the skill position talent the browns brought in in the draft and combine that
15:28with what todd munkin hopes to do and you brought in a couple of young wide receivers you're hoping
15:33quench on judkins coming back from injuries okay i i just wonder if it's enough to make this offense
15:39interesting mike draft and developed how do you develop the young receivers and i think that onus is
15:46on the offensive coaching staff you know bill belichick's reputation in new england for the 20
15:52plus years he was there is that he kept failing when it came to using higher round picks on receivers
15:58and i'd love to know what the real diagnosis is on why the guys they took in the early rounds
16:05of the
16:06draft at the receiver position never worked out is it because they were too impatient with guys that
16:11needed time to learn and grow was tom brady too impatient if a guy ran the wrong route did brady
16:17tell him to get the hell off the field and did the guy not get the quality reps necessary to
16:22fully
16:22flourish so it's going to come down to what they can do to develop guys like denzel boston and casey
16:28concepcion can they develop them are they going to be patient are the the players themselves going to
16:35grow into their roles there's a ceiling between every player who's drafted as it relates to what he did at
16:41the college level and the pro football hall of fame and no one knows despite all the stuff they do
16:46now
16:47pre-draft no one knows where that ceiling is the player doesn't know where the ceiling is until he's
16:53out there competing against the best of the best that have made it to the nfl that have competed in
16:58the nfl over the last 10 years how do you compete how do you compare to those guys and we
17:05find out with
17:05all of them not in off season not in training camp not in the pre-season we find out when
17:11it's time to
17:11go play games that count mike i got 30 seconds how's big shield doing well hey it's doing well you
17:18know
17:18we've got we and and the hollywood angle here and i've kind of dipped my toe in that water where
17:25i'm
17:26working with different producers on different projects i have it's amazing anything gets made it's
17:30amazing how many people have to jump through how many people have to say yes and it makes it even
17:34more
17:34amazing that crap gets made i don't know how you green light crap with so many chefs so many cooks
17:40so many opinions so many people who have to get on board with something but big shield is percolating
17:46as a potential tv series or a streaming series i guess it would be better suited for that so wow
17:50we're
17:50trying to we're trying to push that through you know it's a good tale and some of the some of
17:55the
17:55companies are concerned about how it would impact their relationship with the nfl and my argument is
18:00hey if you want a generation of kids who otherwise could become gambling addicts like
18:04brendan soresby you need to get through to them you need to show them what can happen if you put
18:11your hand in that fire and what better way to do it than with you know something fictional that rings
18:16true and that's what big shield does it shows the perils it shows the evils it shows the risks
18:20of getting yourself too close to to unsavory interest in this age of widespread legalized betting
18:26mike you know we always appreciate your time thank you so much good luck more with big shield and i
18:31can't wait to watch that on tv as well and of course you know we're always watching everywhere you go
18:34and
18:35we're checking out uh pro football talk every day thanks mike thank you michael thanks guys
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