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00:00All guests appear on the Wise Hard Right.
00:01We make it right called Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:03Let's get right to it.
00:04Tom Pellicero joins us, national reporter, insider, NFL Network.
00:08Tom, thanks for joining us this morning.
00:11How long was this in the works?
00:14Because we're trying to read some of the tea leaves here
00:16about the Miles Garrett trade, and it's like, well, okay,
00:18the Browns wanted to move and do the five-year plan thing.
00:22They wanted to bring that to the league table.
00:23And, like, Les Snead was the one who kind of took up for him.
00:26Like, yeah, I could see that being something that passes,
00:29and here they are, the Rams and Browns making a trade with Miles Garrett,
00:32and the Browns getting a pick, and Jared Verstbeck,
00:34and several other things.
00:38These conversations really, you know, go back to after the draft
00:41and the Rams, who have explored a lot of different things in terms of,
00:45I mean, they went down the road with A.J. Brown
00:47before they broke off those talks.
00:49They had pursued various pass rushers.
00:51They felt like this was a need for them.
00:55But, you know, when you're talking about Miles Garrett,
00:56that obviously supersedes any need.
00:58This is the best defensive player in the game.
01:01There's a price tag that comes with that.
01:04It really got going, I would say, about three or four days ago.
01:08Once Jared Verstbeck was part of the trade,
01:11and the Browns were not going to do it unless he was,
01:14you know, by Saturday morning, it became pretty clear
01:16that Miles Garrett was going to be a Ram.
01:19There's a variety of reasons that, you know,
01:22the deal could not be finalized until yesterday,
01:24including the cap ramifications.
01:25But for the Browns, honestly, I would say this,
01:28and I understand there's probably a lot of fans
01:30who saw the news yesterday, who are waking up today,
01:33hoping that that was all a bad dream,
01:35that Miles Garrett is no longer a Brown.
01:38For where Cleveland is,
01:40and I know that everybody's probably sick of hearing about five-year plans
01:43and things like that,
01:44but this is the reality.
01:45The Browns are not winning the Super Bowl this year
01:47because of Miles Garrett.
01:48Miles Garrett requested a trade last year.
01:51If he had had his way, he would have been somewhere else in 2025.
01:54And even when they did the contract extension with him,
01:57it's not like that suddenly solved all the issues
02:00that Miles Garrett himself had voiced publicly.
02:03So if you're in for another challenging year,
02:05you're starting over with a new coaching staff
02:08who's got a bit of a clean slate,
02:10and this year is going to be about, you know,
02:12seeing do you have a potential quarterback.
02:14You're rolling with Deshaun Watson and Shadur Sanders
02:17for the moment here, in all likelihood,
02:20you're probably drafting one in 2027,
02:23loading up with this type of a package,
02:26one, you know, a combination of a player and picks
02:29that the Browns didn't really think
02:31they were going to be able to get for Miles Garrett at age 30.
02:34As great as he is,
02:36as long as he has been, you know,
02:38one of the best players in the game
02:40and coming off the single season sack record,
02:42Jared Verse, who, if you traded him in isolation,
02:45would command a one and more.
02:47As a two-time Pro Bowl player
02:49who's under team control for the foreseeable future,
02:51plus next year's one,
02:53plus a second and third rounder,
02:54plus the cash and cap flexibility
02:56that moving on from Miles Garrett gives you,
02:59to me, and this is just my opinion,
03:01it makes a lot of sense for Cleveland.
03:04Time will tell what they do with those picks,
03:06but from a value perspective,
03:08I thought Andrew Barry made out very well here.
03:11Could they have got more
03:12if they would have traded him last year?
03:16It's hard to say because, you know,
03:18I mean, I'd have to go back and remember
03:20who all was in that trade market.
03:22I would just say, I mean,
03:23look at the other pass rusher deals
03:24that have gotten done.
03:26Micah Parsons went for two first-round picks
03:28to a Packers team
03:29that is probably not going to be drafted
03:32very often in the top 20.
03:33I would say Miles Garrett commanded more than that.
03:37Max Crosby, before he wasn't traded,
03:39was traded to the Ravens for two first-round picks.
03:43Again, probably not top 20 picks.
03:45Miles Garrett commanded more than that.
03:48There have been other top pass rushers.
03:50Guys like Brian Burns.
03:51I'm not putting these guys,
03:53especially, you know,
03:54in the category of Miles Garrett.
03:56This is a one-of-one situation,
03:58but, you know, for everybody who said,
04:00you know, they got to get three first-round picks,
04:02I would argue they did.
04:04If you just look at,
04:05if you do the math on this trade,
04:07Jared Verse is going into year three.
04:10So you've got him,
04:11if you include, you know,
04:12option and franchise takes,
04:13you've got him under team control
04:14for the next four to five years.
04:16You're probably going to want to do an extension
04:18sooner than later with him,
04:19but he is a really, really good player
04:21who's going to fit with all the young guys
04:23that you brought in last year.
04:25They'd probably have the best draft class
04:26in the NFL in 2025.
04:28We'll see how this draft class works out.
04:30They've got additional capital,
04:3212 picks now in the top three rounds
04:33in the next three drafts.
04:36You know, to answer your question,
04:37it's just hard to say
04:38because they didn't frankly listen last year.
04:42You know, they just weren't willing
04:43to do it with Miles Garrett.
04:44They dug in,
04:45they weren't going to trade him.
04:47You'd have to, you know,
04:48go back and could they have brought it to a head
04:50and run a bidding war?
04:51Sure.
04:52I don't think that the compensation
04:53would have been, you know,
04:54certainly not far and away better
04:56than what they got here.
04:57It might've looked different.
04:58Even if it might've looked different,
05:00it would've looked different
05:00if you trade him before
05:02this past April's draft,
05:03just because you're talking about
05:04getting picks now.
05:06But I would, you know,
05:07argue for anybody saying
05:08you should have gotten
05:09three first round picks for him.
05:11You did.
05:11Just if you add up the value
05:13on this trade,
05:14I would say you got that.
05:15And oh, by the way,
05:16you already know effectively
05:17one of those first round picks
05:19is Jared Verse,
05:20who that's not a lottery ticket.
05:22That's not a draft dart throw.
05:23That's a guy you already know
05:25is a really, really good player,
05:26even though, you know,
05:27the odds of you finding
05:28the next Miles Garrett
05:29with any of this
05:30are pretty slim.
05:32Tom Pellicero joined us
05:33on the hotline,
05:34had a lot of this news yesterday.
05:36So what are people saying
05:36around the league?
05:37What are your contacts saying
05:38about what seems to be
05:40on its face,
05:41a very NBA-like,
05:43creative type of trade
05:44here for Andrew Barry?
05:47Well, I would say that
05:48I think that it makes sense
05:49from both sides,
05:50and that's the main thing
05:51that I've heard.
05:52People were, you know,
05:53I think shocked to a degree
05:55yesterday that it was real.
05:57Because, I mean,
05:57you guys know out there,
05:58there have been Miles Garrett
05:59trade rumors for like five years,
06:01you know,
06:01and you just kind of,
06:02you shrug at it and whatnot.
06:03When I heard that it was
06:05beginning to pick up,
06:06you know,
06:07I had the same instinctive reaction,
06:09but also knowing
06:10it did make sense
06:11if you were going to trade Miles,
06:13you'd do it right now
06:14because the value
06:15is not going to go up
06:16in future years
06:16for, you know,
06:17for a guy who's 30 years old.
06:19So for the Rams,
06:20this is totally on brand
06:22for them.
06:23They've gone sort of cyclical here
06:26where there was that initial,
06:27you know,
06:28bleep them picks phase
06:29of trading for,
06:30you know,
06:31the Jalen Ramseys
06:32and Matthew Staffords
06:33of the world.
06:33Then over the past two years,
06:35they swung the opposite
06:36and they had one of the youngest
06:37teams in the NFL
06:38and a ton of draft picks
06:39and they hit on guys
06:41like Jared Verse
06:42and Braden Fisk
06:43and Kobe Turner
06:44and they built this thing up.
06:46Now,
06:47because you've got
06:47that young,
06:48cheap workforce,
06:48you can afford
06:49to swing back again
06:50and say,
06:51we're going to go
06:52and, you know,
06:52trade away
06:53some of those future picks
06:55to try to win
06:55right now
06:56with Matthew Stafford.
06:58You know,
06:58it certainly puts
06:58a different lens
06:59on the Ty Simpson pick
07:01now that they don't have
07:02a first round pick
07:02next year.
07:03Effectively,
07:04it goes back
07:04to what they were saying,
07:05which is they didn't think
07:06they were going to have
07:07a whole lot of opportunities
07:08to have a pick that high
07:09and get a guy
07:10they think can be
07:11the next franchise quarterback.
07:12But that was not,
07:13you know,
07:14to write the obituary
07:15for Matthew Stafford
07:16in L.A.
07:17It was to set themselves up
07:19with a guy
07:19who was going to need
07:20time to develop
07:20while also going
07:22all in on Stafford.
07:24Again,
07:24what I would tell you
07:24is that they were
07:25in a lot of different things
07:26and they always are
07:27in this offseason.
07:29Miles Garrett
07:30was not the only,
07:31you know,
07:32high-profile star player
07:33that they looked into.
07:35He was not the only
07:35high-profile pass rusher
07:36they looked into.
07:38They land him.
07:39It creates problems.
07:40I guarantee,
07:42particularly in places
07:43like San Francisco
07:43and Seattle,
07:44there was a recalibration
07:45yesterday of,
07:46you know,
07:47exactly,
07:47all right,
07:47we're going to have
07:48to deal with this guy
07:49a couple times a year.
07:50It's not a sea change.
07:52We're talking about
07:52a division that's got
07:53the defending Super Bowl champs
07:54as well as a team
07:55in the 49ers
07:56that made a run last year
07:57despite their entire roster
07:58being hurt.
07:59You know,
08:00so it makes sense
08:01for the Rams.
08:02They feel like
08:02they've got a window.
08:03They're capturing it
08:04in the Browns' minds,
08:06you know,
08:06and as people look at this,
08:08effectively,
08:08you're sending the message
08:09that we know
08:10our window is not 2026.
08:12Our window is 2027
08:14or probably 2028,
08:162029.
08:17I mean,
08:17go back again
08:17to that draft
08:18from last year.
08:19That's the group
08:20that you're building around,
08:22you know,
08:23that you hope
08:24for years to come
08:25are going to be able
08:25to take you there,
08:26being able to add,
08:27again,
08:27additional draft capital
08:29going into a 2027 draft
08:31that is regarded
08:31as very talented,
08:33very deep,
08:33and very good
08:35at the top
08:36of the quarterback class.
08:37We've all seen this before
08:38and sometimes
08:39those things don't play out.
08:40You know,
08:41guys go back to school,
08:42they get paid in NIL,
08:44they don't play well
08:45and their draft stocks,
08:47you know,
08:48dips as a result,
08:49but this group
08:50seems like it's really,
08:51really good.
08:52Maybe Shadour
08:52ends up being the guy,
08:53maybe against all odds,
08:54Deshaun Watson
08:55who's barely played football
08:56for the past five years
08:57comes out
08:58and plays lights out.
08:59Failing those scenarios,
09:00you're probably looking
09:02to draft the quarterback.
09:03Now,
09:04not only do you have
09:05two firsts in 2027,
09:07but you've also got
09:08those additional future picks
09:10that you also use
09:11as trade chips.
09:12If you don't have
09:13a top,
09:14you know,
09:14the number one pick
09:15or a top five pick
09:16and we'll see how good
09:17this team ends up being,
09:19you've at least got
09:19the capital to try
09:20to make a move
09:21and get up there
09:21in 2027.
09:22Tom Pellisaro
09:23with us on the hotline.
09:24So,
09:25obviously,
09:26the Browns chose
09:28or Jimmy Haslam chose
09:29Andrew Barry
09:30over Kevin Stefanski
09:31this offseason,
09:32but are you a little bit
09:33surprised that Jimmy,
09:35who's dealing with
09:37another superstar
09:38potentially winding out
09:39in another sport
09:40with Giannis,
09:40are you surprised
09:41he signed off
09:42on this
09:42given just
09:44how the rebuilds
09:46have gone over time
09:47here in Cleveland?
09:48Is this something
09:49that Andrew Barry
09:50had to talk his owner
09:51into signing off on?
09:54I'm not surprised
09:55because the tenor
09:56of everyone's statements
09:58changed from last year
10:00to this year.
10:01Last year,
10:01it was,
10:01no,
10:01we are not trading
10:02Miles Garrett.
10:03Miles Garrett is a career Brown.
10:04He's got one uniform player
10:06headed to Canton.
10:07This offseason,
10:08it was,
10:09well,
10:09you know,
10:09he's still on the Browns.
10:10We don't really want
10:11to talk about this.
10:12Well,
10:12Miles Garrett is a Brown.
10:13It was just softer
10:15and you could tell
10:16that,
10:16you know,
10:17there was at least
10:18an opening here.
10:19It's not as if
10:19they intended to trade him.
10:20It was not a guarantee
10:21that they were going
10:22to trade him.
10:22Was Miles Garrett,
10:24you know,
10:24frustrated with,
10:25you know,
10:25just years of the ups
10:27and downs?
10:27Absolutely.
10:28Was he happy
10:29that Jim Schwartz
10:29walked out of the building?
10:31No.
10:32However,
10:33there was a situation
10:34where Miles Garrett
10:35could have come back
10:36and played for the Browns again.
10:38It just made sense.
10:39I see the organizational
10:40reset started last year
10:42with some of the moves
10:43that they made
10:44and,
10:44you know,
10:44stock in the cabinet
10:45in terms of the young players
10:47that they were able to add.
10:49If you were going
10:50to trade Miles,
10:51doing it now
10:52as opposed to in a year
10:53where,
10:53listen,
10:54he could go
10:54and have 30 sacks.
10:55We know Miles Garrett.
10:56You know,
10:56he could have another monster year
10:58and maybe it sustains there.
10:59But,
11:00you know,
11:00the modern history
11:01would say
11:01when you're 30 years old
11:03going on 31,
11:04you're not going
11:05to get better,
11:06right?
11:06You may stay on top
11:08for a while longer,
11:09but,
11:09you know,
11:10father time is undefeated.
11:11The decline is coming
11:12at some point.
11:13So,
11:14trading him
11:15at the absolute height
11:16of his powers
11:17was in the best interest
11:19of the Browns
11:19if they were able
11:20to get a fair level
11:22of compensation.
11:23You're right.
11:24Jimmy Haslam
11:25made a choice
11:26that I think was,
11:27frankly,
11:28best for Kevin Stefanski
11:29to go and get
11:30another opportunity.
11:30He gets a raise
11:32to go and coach
11:33the Falcons
11:34and get a fresh start
11:34there after being
11:36two-time coach
11:36of the year
11:37but also going
11:38through a lot
11:38of challenges
11:39in terms of
11:39the quarterback position
11:41and elsewhere
11:41with that roster.
11:43And,
11:43you know,
11:43Andrew Berry
11:44gets sort of a reset
11:45for himself
11:45to be able
11:46to take this thing
11:47into the next era
11:49of Browns football.
11:50They put together
11:51a good staff.
11:52You know,
11:52obviously it was
11:53a winding process
11:54to get there,
11:54but Todd Monken
11:55is a good,
11:56solid football coach.
11:58Mike Rutenberg
11:59is not a guy
11:59that, you know,
12:00a lot of people
12:00probably know
12:01a ton about,
12:02but Rudy is
12:03one of the highest
12:04energy assistant coaches
12:05in the entire league.
12:07He was going
12:08to be a coordinator
12:09eventually.
12:09He might be
12:10a head coach
12:11someday in the league.
12:13They put together
12:14the right group
12:14of people here
12:15just to try to change
12:17the energy
12:17in the building
12:18and sometimes
12:18you need that.
12:20They, you know,
12:20again,
12:20last year's draft class
12:22was a really,
12:23really good one.
12:23That's the group
12:24that you're building around.
12:25Now you've got,
12:26you know,
12:26a bunch of extra capital
12:27to continue
12:28to build this thing
12:29out.
12:30If that's the vision,
12:31the vision is not just,
12:32hey, our goal
12:33is to have Miles Garrett
12:34retire in a Browns uniform.
12:35No, it's our goal
12:36is we're moving
12:37into a new stadium
12:38in Brook Park
12:39and we know
12:40the fans are ticked off
12:41and there's a lot
12:42of people
12:42with number 95 jerseys
12:43who are still
12:44going to wear those
12:44into the stadium
12:46this fall,
12:46but we need to settle
12:47the quarterback position.
12:48We need to build
12:49this thing the right way.
12:50We got to compete
12:51in the division
12:52with Joe Burrow
12:53and with Lamar Jackson
12:55and with the Steelers
12:56now building it
12:57with Mike McCarthy
12:58and whatever that looks like
12:59as they move forward here.
13:00If you don't do
13:01bold things,
13:02you are going to be
13:03stuck in similar patterns.
13:05No one has ever
13:06accused the Browns
13:07of not being bold.
13:08This is another
13:09bold stroke
13:10and we'll see
13:12how that works out
13:12not just in 2026
13:14but over years to come.
13:15Tom Pellicero
13:16joining us on the show.
13:17If Jim Schwartz
13:18were the head coach
13:18of the Browns,
13:19would Miles Garrett
13:20still be here?
13:22It's impossible to say
13:24because the Rams
13:26still would have come
13:27with this type
13:27of a trade offer.
13:29Dynamics would have
13:30been different.
13:30There's no doubt
13:31about it.
13:32But again,
13:33the goal is not
13:34let's make Miles Garrett
13:35happy.
13:36If you want to make
13:37him happy,
13:37you would have traded
13:38him a year ago.
13:38The goal is
13:39how do you win
13:40football games?
13:41How do you build
13:41this the right way
13:42for years to come?
13:44And again,
13:45we'll see.
13:46Todd Munkin
13:46has not been
13:47an NFL head coach
13:49before.
13:50He seems to have
13:51the right mentality
13:52for it.
13:52I kind of like
13:53the fact that he
13:54seems to have
13:54some truth serum
13:56to him where
13:56he'll just flat out
13:57tell you exactly
13:58what he's on his
13:59mind all the time.
14:01Whether it's about
14:02his own roster
14:03being ticked off
14:04about interceptions,
14:05what he thinks
14:06of Brennan Sorsby,
14:07all that stuff.
14:07I kind of enjoy it.
14:10Kevin Stefanski
14:11is a really good
14:11football coach
14:12but everybody knows
14:13Kevin was very,
14:14very cautious
14:14publicly.
14:15Andrew is pretty
14:16cautious publicly.
14:17Now all of a sudden
14:18you've got this
14:18bowl in the China shop
14:19every time he's got
14:20a microphone in front
14:21of his face.
14:21I find that fun.
14:23Schwartz would have
14:24been the same
14:25type of a thing
14:26where Jim was,
14:27we all know what
14:27Jim's personality is
14:29and he's hyper-aggressive.
14:30I do already have
14:31those thoughts going
14:31through my mind
14:32of, okay,
14:33so next year
14:34the Rams win
14:35the Super Bowl,
14:35Chris Shula,
14:36their D coordinator
14:37gets a head coaching
14:38job.
14:38Is Jim Schwartz
14:39the Rams defensive
14:40coordinator back
14:40with Miles Garrett
14:41in 2027 in L.A.?
14:43It's fun things
14:43to think about.
14:44These are five steps
14:45ahead at this point.
14:48It's a hypothetical.
14:50It's really hard
14:50to say.
14:51Would Miles Garrett
14:53have liked Jim Schwartz
14:54to stick around
14:55in one capacity
14:56or another?
14:56Absolutely.
14:57It didn't happen.
14:58That was just
14:59one more thing.
15:00Jim Schwartz
15:00was the coordinator
15:01last year
15:01when Miles Garrett
15:02wanted out.
15:03That would not
15:03have magically
15:04cured everything here.
15:05All right, Tom,
15:06two more quickly
15:07and we thank you
15:08for your time.
15:09Denzel Ward,
15:10is he next?
15:13It doesn't seem
15:14like that's the plan
15:15but certainly
15:15something's got to
15:16happen with Denzel Ward.
15:18Contract extension
15:19would certainly
15:20be a possibility.
15:21He's one of the
15:21top corners
15:22in the NFL.
15:23I don't think
15:23you want to go
15:24with a completely
15:24bare cabinet here
15:26but listen,
15:27the main thing
15:29you've got to
15:29understand is
15:29there's not many
15:31players in the NFL
15:32who there's not
15:32a price that
15:34they can't be had.
15:35You found that
15:35out yesterday
15:36with Miles Garrett.
15:37Price was Jared
15:38verse and three
15:39draft picks.
15:40Denzel Ward
15:41is certainly
15:41tradable but
15:43it doesn't seem
15:44like this is now
15:44all right,
15:45it's a complete
15:46we're going to
15:47trade every
15:47veteran asset
15:48that we have.
15:49Let's see.
15:50Circumstances
15:51change this time
15:52of year.
15:52Injuries happen.
15:53Teams have draft
15:54picks that don't
15:55pan out.
15:56They get more
15:57and more aggressive
15:58if you start to
15:58see we don't
16:00have the guys
16:01that we need
16:01at this position.
16:02We need a corner.
16:03Let's see.
16:04I don't think
16:04that it's
16:05happening today
16:05put it that way.
16:07I don't think
16:07that that's a
16:07priority for the
16:09Browns but
16:10certainly again
16:11you know there's
16:12not many players
16:13in the NFL
16:13who cannot be
16:14traded.
16:15You just traded
16:16Miles Garrett.
16:17Denzel Ward is
16:17certainly not
16:18untouchable but I
16:19don't get the
16:19sense you know
16:20that they're
16:21urgently just
16:21trying to
16:22shuttle him off
16:23here.
16:23Final one.
16:24Todd Munkin
16:25was pretty
16:26anti-Brennan
16:27Soresby yesterday.
16:28If he hits the
16:29supplemental draft
16:30are the
16:31Browns interested
16:32or are they
16:33just moving on
16:33with these
16:34quarterbacks and
16:34then on to
16:35possibly 2027?
16:38I don't know
16:39that Brennan
16:39Soresby is real
16:40interested in the
16:41Browns after those
16:43comments basically
16:44saying that it
16:45would be hard to
16:45go down that
16:46road with a guy
16:47who has had a
16:48gambling addiction
16:49and those types
16:49of things.
16:50Remember if he
16:51does declare and
16:52we'll get word
16:53sometime in the
16:54coming days on
16:55his eligibility.
16:56If he does go
16:56into the
16:57supplemental draft
16:57he can choose
16:58what teams he's
16:59going to visit,
17:00he can choose
17:01how he wants
17:02to navigate
17:02this process.
17:03If you're
17:04Brennan Soresby
17:05and his agent
17:06and you read
17:07those comments
17:07you're probably
17:08not going
17:09let's send
17:09the guy to
17:10Cleveland.
17:10It's a waste
17:11of time.
17:11Todd Munkin
17:12has already
17:12said where
17:13he stands
17:14on it.
17:14Obviously
17:14Andrew Berry
17:15has a say
17:16in this as
17:17well.
17:17With that
17:18coming draft
17:18class in
17:192027 and
17:20all the capital
17:20that they have
17:21I would
17:22certainly
17:22understand if
17:23they just
17:23say we don't
17:24need to add
17:25another quarterback
17:26to the room
17:26right now.
17:27Let's see what
17:28the guys we have
17:28in-house can do.
17:29and keep all
17:30our options
17:30on the table
17:31for 2027.
17:32Tom, you've
17:32been very
17:32gracious with
17:33your time.
17:34Thank you so
17:34much.
17:35We'll talk
17:35to you again
17:35soon.
17:37Yeah, you
17:38got it guys.
17:38Tom Pellicero,
17:39NFL Network.
17:41On the
17:41Wise Heart
17:41Right, We
17:42Make It Right
17:42Call Call
17:43Right Hotline.
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