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00:00So, this evening we invited Pietro Orlandi to the studio, I told you before, because we did an investigation, a
00:05A complicated and important investigation, thanks to our Emma Giuliani who studied this part of the case.
00:13Pietro, of course both to you and to Natalina, well we've already said what it's about, but let's see together,
00:20because I have to say it's really complicated.
00:22What needs to be said is that all sorts of sleuthing has been done around your sister.
00:28So, we start from this cassette, this audio cassette, on July 17, 1983 this audio cassette was found
00:36where you hear moans, there is a young woman who is raped, tortured and Manuela Orlandi has disappeared from
00:46not much, so yes...
00:47July 17th, so less than a month.
00:50July 18th, so your sister is immediately thought of, your uncle is made to hear it, then probably your father,
00:57then at a certain point it is said, Natalina told me that she is also made to hear it, yes that
01:02he makes her feel it too, but he tells her look we found out that it's not her, because the teachers of
01:07music they tell us that Manuela is a contralto, now I don't want to say something silly.
01:11Yes, some of her friends at school said it was contralto, so it was a different key.
01:16Oh, Natalina, even the teachers say so, right? They say she's a contralto, so it wasn't her, but...
01:20Above all, they said, don't worry, because these are clips from a porn film. He's a mythomaniac...
01:25Exactly, you get this thing about clips from a porn movie, but the problem we posed ourselves, if
01:30These are clips from a porn movie, these porn movies, right?
01:35Which ones? Which ones are they? That is, these clips must appear, if we know that they are clips from a pornographic film, they must in
01:40somehow appear.
01:42Well, sure, that's a certain point.
01:43Which has nothing to do with Manuela, who at the time I didn't even want to listen to that so-called one.
01:46But then, it's not Manuela, let's pretend it's not Manuela, we don't know the porn film because the film
01:53porn has never come out, who could it be?
01:56There is, we wondered a young woman who is tortured in some way, whether spoiled at the same time or
02:03more or less, in short there is something.
02:06So, on July 17th the audio cassette arrives with this voice, a brief massacre.
02:37There is a young woman who is clearly not Emanuele Onrandi, Emanuele Onrandi.
02:42Emanuele Onrandi, who has disappeared, says she was beaten, and she tells the story in a courtroom. Let's hear it.
02:53And other abuse, besides the kicks that run through these fists?
03:01So, then when they came in to me, they started, well, first slapping me, kicking me and stuff like that, and then,
03:09okay, they said that in their opinion it wasn't enough, other things had to happen, right?
03:14And in fact, first of all, they undressed me and put me on a table saying that they were going to rape me.
03:28with a stick.
03:29Was there a table, too?
03:31Yes, there was a table.
03:32And he put it with?
03:33They placed me flat on my stomach at the table.
03:37Oh, I understand.
03:40And after a while of this, they took me off the table and started kicking me in the genitals.
04:00Yes.
04:03And then, like, they started squeezing my nipples and stuff like that.
04:09Oh, was she screaming?
04:13Yes.
04:15So, what we asked ourselves, Peter, is whether this young woman or other young women, no, who tell the same story
04:21dynamics had been recorded, right?
04:24It was always a voice of a person who comes, because what the investigators agree on is that all
04:31'At the beginning they say there is no fiction.
04:33Exact.
04:33So at the beginning we don't talk about films, no.
04:35The earthquake analysts said that there was no fiction.
04:38There is no pretense.
04:39So, you can clearly hear in the cassette that is released, it is found on July 17th, at a certain point this
04:48young woman who says, now let me sleep.
04:50Let's hear it.
05:09So, even the young woman who is speaking in the courtroom, in the court, must have said to a certain
05:15period, let me sleep, okay?
05:17Why she was brought a camp bed, this was also told in court.
05:24Look, the camp bed, the camp bed was brought to him at a certain point, compared to the time when they stopped
05:35the mistreatments.
05:36How long ago did this camp bed thing happen?
05:44Was it hours later or just after?
05:48No, it seems like a few hours have passed.
05:52So, you're all wondering, right?
05:54But who is this woman who speaks, who talks about the camp bed, that they tortured her, that they tied her to a
05:59table?
06:00Now we'll talk about it in a little while, we'll tell you who he is.
06:02But first I want to make it clear that the first degree, that is the first degree sentence of what happened,
06:11so there are defendants who are state officials, the first instance sentence is the
06:16July 15th, that is, exactly two days before the box was found.
06:23And this, I must say, is quite impressive.
06:26So, what's going on? Why is that woman talking about torture and saying I was screaming?
06:34But first with Francesco Paolo del Reima Giuliani we go to this mysterious cassette that we made listen to, thanks to Pietro,
06:42in 2016, which is a really mysterious box, because it hasn't been revealed yet.
06:49Who brought it, for example, that is, who left it there, who made it findable.
06:53The original has not yet been found.
06:55And besides, the original has not been found, so one might think that in the original there could also be some
07:01fragments, that in short someone thought well, it is better not to let her find it.
07:07The box.
07:16Emanuela Orlandi has been missing for 25 days and evening, in the headquarters of the ANSA news agency, which is located a few
07:24meters from the Quirinale, the phone rings.
07:27One of the editors answers and tells the story.
07:30A young man's voice, without dialectal inflections and imperfect Italian, told me that a cassette wrapped in a poster
07:37It had been left by him on the steps of Via della Dataria, on the left side.
07:41The box was found right here, on the steps of this staircase that leads up to the Quirinal.
07:46And a few steps away, in line with those flags, is the headquarters of the ANSA news agency.
07:52The journalist immediately runs to the place indicated by the anonymous operator, takes the cassette and brings it to the editorial office.
08:00He listens to her and what he hears is shocking.
08:17The ANSA journalist immediately notified the police headquarters.
08:20The tape then passes into the hands of Antonio Asciore, a young Digos agent.
08:26We were like, oh my God, what did they do to these girls? We were kind of shocked, you know,
08:32like that.
08:33Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, I don't feel bad, I don't feel bad.
08:41It's two in the morning, it's now July 18th.
08:44The police station called Emanuela's family and played the tape to her uncle, which was too much for the parents.
08:52Could it be her, he replies, especially because of the phrase, will you let me sleep now?
08:58Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
09:03There is never any talk of a pornographic film in these first hours.
09:07The cassette passes from hand to hand and reaches the secret services and the SISDE, on the same 18th July, writes
09:14a confidential note.
09:15These pages argue that this is...
09:19Repeated complaints of a young woman apparently subjected to torture.
09:23At first we thought they were torturing her, but between us we were...
09:31But what could it be? I mean, she... you know, she says the knife, the pliers, what are they doing?
09:39It was clear, you could only understand that she was saying blood, I'm hurting myself, that's enough, that's it.
09:47Blood? But what is it?
09:51That is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is.
09:54In the investigators' documents we read that there is no fiction.
09:57According to the SISDE agent who examined the recording, a young woman was actually being tortured.
10:03I believe this is an authentic recording and not artfully edited clips.
10:09There is not only the female voice in the recording.
10:12There are also the voices of several men.
10:15The intelligence expert notes...
10:18I think I've identified three or four other voices, in addition to the girl's.
10:22One of the voices had a distinct Roman accent.
10:28Today, only a few fragments remain of these male voices, which are thought to belong to the authors of the reports.
10:43At one point, this male voice gave a kind of scolding scream.
10:51like stop it, like shut up, like if you don't stop it he'll...
10:55I mean, like, he scared her with the...
10:58And then, in many passages, the girl, while she was complaining...
11:08I mean, it was a kind of torture-like moan that was increasing in intensity.
11:20The analyses by SISDE technicians continue and, in a report dated July 25, they write that...
11:27From listening to the tape, the impression was formed that the passive female subject
11:32was subjected to abuse, presumably of a sexual nature, by at least three people in a row.
11:38Then, however, the investigators say stop.
11:41According to their experts, it is not the voice of Emanuela Orlandi, but the work of a mislead.
11:48The moans are not cries of pain from someone being tortured, but the audio of a pornographic film.
11:54My father is extremely distressed, for sure, because after listening to that audio, he tried to stay still, to be...
12:01But I could see that something was stirring inside him.
12:05The fact is that after a few days they call him, I don't know exactly if at the police station or at the prosecutor's office, I presume in
12:12preccint,
12:13and they tell him, don't worry, we had that audio cassette analyzed, Emanuela has absolutely nothing to do with it,
12:20It's not Emanuela's voice, we understood that they are just observations from a porn film.
12:25For many years Peter has not been able to hear the audio.
12:29When the investigation was reopened and then closed in 2016, he managed to get a copy of the recording.
12:36The door is open to those who have seen it, and this is where you all got to hear it.
12:59But do you think it could resemble Emanuela's voice?
13:03I said it unfortunately, there are some sentences that struck me as soon as I heard them.
13:08What was said at the time, please let me sleep, or there are some expressions.
13:14Natalina, Emanuela Orlandi's sister, doesn't recognize the voice. Pietro, however, does.
13:19The moment the audio becomes public knowledge, word spreads that it is a film.
13:25porn.
13:25But if it's a porn film, what's the title? Who are the actors? Who shot it?
13:31Does anyone recognize the movie? Do you recognize the actress's voice?
13:34How did they figure out they were clips from a porn movie? Which porn movie? I mean, you...
13:39searched for?
13:40We had two experts analyze the recording.
13:44Marco Giusti, a profound connoisseur of genre cinema, and Jessica Rizzo, one of the queens of Italian porn.
13:52Could this be a pornographic film, in your opinion?
13:54No, I don't think so. I don't feel like it's a pornographic film.
13:59A pornographic film and with this background noise it's difficult.
14:08Why don't you force me like this? Why? Why? Why? Oh my god, why? Oh my god, why? Oh my god, why? Oh my god, why? Oh my god, why? Oh my god, why?
14:19are you forcing me like this?
14:23They don't sound like cries of pleasure to me. There's someone who moans like that, ouch, ouch.
14:28There's something gloomy about it, not exciting. It didn't give me any real pleasure to listen to.
14:40For both Marco Giusti and Jessica Rizzo, the answer is the same.
14:45It's not the audio from a porn movie, because that wouldn't turn anyone on.
14:49In fact, it's not even a movie. It's not a function, it's reality.
14:54Therefore, what the first technicians who analyzed the cassette had also found at the time is true.
15:01In fact, the SISMI had written,
15:04It is excluded that such suffering could have been simulated by the girl herself, even under coercion,
15:10because it would have resulted in a much lower reliability.
15:15Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
15:21Not only curses. In the recording we have, the female voice at a certain point...
15:27he seems to beg to be able to sleep.
15:30God, that hurts, that hurts. God, let me sleep now.
15:35Sleep deprivation. This is a clear indication that someone who knows what they're doing is working.
15:43That's not all. The SISDE document states that the girl is unable to speak, as if she had the
15:49blocked mouth.
15:54Those who transcribe the audio, write, complain and repeat several times, enough, with their mouths half-covered.
16:11Then Peter, it's as if one were denying the other, right? Because the secret services say, there's no fiction here, right away,
16:17and then after a certain point the film comes out.
16:21Yes, but the SISME analyses were released in 2016, because at the time no one ever knew that the SISME
16:29he had said
16:30that that could be Emanuele's voice and that there was absolutely no pretence.
16:34That's the thing that always struck me.
16:36You saw it in 2016 when the investigation was closed and so I was able to get the documents.
16:42These disclosures are from 1983.
16:45I'm from '83.
16:46Because that cassette was immediately handed over to the SISME analysts for analysis.
16:53They said this, they said that there is no fiction, in fact for them it could have been Emanuele's voice
16:58I compared it to the one that made us feel at home.
17:01That they had made heard.
17:02So, let's go there now, shall we?
17:05No, we started these...
17:07Let's go back to this woman who told of abuse, of torture,
17:10he told it in a courtroom.
17:13She was not convicted of slander, by the way.
17:15So, the trial is carried out on state officials, police officials,
17:20who they would torture to get information.
17:23Consider that this is a very difficult period for Italy, there is a war going on,
17:27there are the Red Brigades who kidnapped an American general,
17:30even General Dozzi, and you must free him at all costs.
17:35It seems like a novel, but there is even a character who is nicknamed,
17:39Professor De Tormentis.
17:41Then we discovered it in this book by Nicola Rao,
17:43we had shown it, which is called Blow to the Heart,
17:46which tells well of this professor De Tormentis,
17:49because he, Nicola Rao, the journalist, had spoken to us.
17:53He has a group, called Quelli dell'Ave Maria,
17:57and he would have taken responsibility for having people tortured
18:02to have information, that is, not the rule of law,
18:05of course torture shouldn't exist,
18:08and so we ask ourselves, but was there torture in Italy or not?
18:12Let's go to Enrico Triaca.
18:15He tells what he went through,
18:18his mouth wasn't closed, even more so, right?
18:21First we talked about this girl,
18:23that the earthquake and the system say had his mouth shut,
18:27and suffered what is called waterboarding,
18:30he says it, but they don't ask him,
18:31they don't believe him.
18:32He is a supporter of the EBR, he is arrested,
18:35we are in the period of the Moro kidnapping,
18:37and then taken away in a van,
18:39with a van to a safe place.
18:42Here is his story.
18:45When we arrived they made me get off,
18:49I went up the stairs,
18:52and they took me into a room.
18:55Here they stripped me,
18:58loaded onto a table,
19:00and tied at the four ends,
19:03with his head and shoulders off the table,
19:06and that's where the special treatment began.
19:10A policeman sits on his stomach,
19:13another one is holding my head,
19:16and blocks the nose,
19:18and another with water cinnamon.
19:23So what?
19:24And then nothing,
19:27you can't breathe,
19:28that is, the first time you try to breathe,
19:31but you can't do it,
19:34you only swallow water, so...
19:36That is, was there a sense of suffocation?
19:38Oh yes, because not only the meaning,
19:41there is also the body's own effect,
19:44which reacts with...
19:47There are some tears,
19:48attempts to get oxygen,
19:50so there are violent contractions.
19:54And there was always the policeman sitting on the belly,
19:58he said?
19:59Yes, yes.
20:00And did people still talk about the torments?
20:02Yes, yes, he kept asking questions,
20:05you know this, you know that,
20:08here he dies and here he remains.
20:10But what did she think?
20:12How is this going to end?
20:14What was he afraid of?
20:14Yes, you think you might not make it out alive,
20:20because you don't know how well the thing works,
20:24the true intentions they have,
20:26that is, you imagine everything.
20:45No, then at a certain point
20:51you even give up trying to breathe,
20:53because you know you can't do it,
20:58you just swallow water.
20:59She later reported,
21:00he tells me about this,
21:01did he report this fact?
21:03Yes, yes.
21:03I was questioned by Judge Achille Gallucci,
21:06who was the public prosecutor,
21:09and I reported to him that I had been tortured.
21:15He told me right away,
21:16he says look, we'll sue you for slander.
21:19In fact the next day,
21:20two days at most,
21:21I received an arrest warrant for slander.
21:24The arrest warrant?
21:26Yes.
21:28So you were convicted of slander?
21:32Triaca is not believed
21:34and they tell him look, you are slandering the State,
21:38but then there are those within the State who say
21:41no, I was there, I was present
21:43and this was done.
21:45He is a police commissioner,
21:47a former police commissioner in Genoa,
21:49who was in charge of Odzier's kidnapping
21:52and says that they are interrogating
21:55another supporter of the BR
21:57and his companion.
21:59And here too there is a young woman
22:01which is tied to a table.
22:03It's not the one we heard before,
22:04another one.
22:07Once he was laid out on this plank
22:11with the various ropes, ties, etc.,
22:15where he was laid,
22:18in this whole situation
22:19they moved, they shouted to each other
22:24around the person who however
22:26he was in a state of psychophysical subjection, let's say.
22:30Moreover, both the woman and the man
22:34they were also placed on this plank
22:36completely naked.
22:38It was also a form, I mean,
22:40precisely of stripping their personality.
22:43Treatment was started.
22:44Treatment was started
22:45and all this water, actually,
22:48salt water,
22:50he obviously simulated drowning at sea.
22:53Then Triaga was believed
22:55and the trial was reviewed,
22:58he had been sentenced,
22:58then the trial was reviewed
23:00and he was acquitted, right?
23:03For this accusation of his.
23:03Does he talk about it like this normally?
23:05Huh?
23:05Say moon.
23:05Does he talk about it like this normally?
23:07He talks about it like this...
23:08I heard the whole interview
23:10by Gianluoreto Carbone,
23:11which, you can imagine,
23:12it lasts almost two hours,
23:13it's very interesting,
23:14because he doesn't just talk about it normally.
23:16He says, we were present,
23:18Professor De Tormentis was there,
23:19my men didn't want to be there,
23:23because it didn't seem right to us,
23:24but then he tells us,
23:26It was a war, right?
23:27The orders had come from above,
23:29from above do what needs to be done
23:33to free General Dozier,
23:36who in fact then gets released, right?
23:38So, what makes an impression
23:40These are the dates, Peter.
23:41That's what made an impression on us, right?
23:43I was saying, this work we did,
23:45this investigation,
23:46thanks to Imma Giuliani,
23:47to my colleague Imma Giuliani,
23:48It's impressive because,
23:49the cassette arrives on July 17th
23:52with these screams, right?
23:55The first instance verdict will be issued on July 15th
24:00for these police officials,
24:02for these facts,
24:04among other things in the first instance
24:06they are condemned,
24:07The crime of torture doesn't exist in Italy, right?
24:10There was a fake shooting,
24:12in short, they are condemned for something else.
24:15Does this coincidence of dates make an impression on you?
24:19Yes, this definitely two days before,
24:22that is, understand what kind of message
24:23they wanted to send these people,
24:24because surely someone
24:26a message has been sent.
24:28For many years we have always thought
24:30obviously to the question of Emanuela,
24:31because it was linked to Emanuela's story,
24:33on the back of the box it asked
24:35the usual story of the exchange with Alia Cia.
24:36and I have to say,
24:38the voice,
24:40I may have also been influenced
24:42having heard it 33 years later,
24:45I mean, I still feel that little bit,
24:47then it could be the similar voice
24:49to many other girls,
24:50I hear Emanuela's voice
24:52in that sentence,
24:53but me more than anything else
24:54because I have always been impressed
24:56from the fact that that evening
24:58Mazzio wasn't the only one who went there,
24:59Mazzio is my father.
25:00Did your father go there too?
25:01Ah, because I had read
25:02that they had not made heard
25:04your parents
25:04so as not to give him this torment.
25:06My father had gone,
25:07I remember my father that
25:08says this tape,
25:10this audio more than ten minutes,
25:12screams of girls,
25:13men screaming,
25:15but I was impressed
25:16from a sentence
25:17who seemed just like Emanuela to me,
25:19it was this,
25:19please let me sleep.
25:21This, please.
25:23At that time,
25:24we hear it again,
25:25this short part.
25:27Then there is a man,
25:28a man's voice
25:29who says something very vulgar,
25:31there is a good part,
25:33in fact we put it
25:34in short, late hour
25:35even if our program
25:36it's not a program
25:37for children,
25:38but also anyway
25:38if ours disappears.
25:39And many other voices
25:40they are definitely cut
25:41because they said exactly
25:42which were many voices
25:43of people screaming.
25:44What you were saying
25:45which he also told us later
25:47the man who interviewed
25:49in Sciore,
25:49who interviewed
25:50Francis Palo del Re,
25:51which in reality
25:51the cassette is longer.
25:53Yes, yes,
25:53more than ten minutes.
25:54More than ten minutes,
25:55how much do we have instead?
25:56Three minutes?
25:56No, the one I brought here
25:57it was three minutes and something.
25:59Three minutes and something.
26:00Yes, I'm just
26:00the female voices.
26:01So in short
26:02something was cut,
26:03we should understand why
26:04and find the original.
26:06So, let's hear it again
26:08the clip with this man
26:09who says something very vulgar
26:11at the end of this clip.
26:39At that time,
26:40he says, I from this
26:41I would do it anyway
26:42and you understood
26:43if you heard correctly.
26:44You know the crazy thing
26:45as it was justified
26:46this sentence?
26:48It is written exactly
26:48in the documents at the time.
26:51The head of the mobile unit
26:52which justified
26:53masculine sentences
26:55he says, but no,
26:56that one for sure
26:57while they passed
26:58that audio
26:59on another cassette
27:00they are the voices
27:00some policemen
27:01That...
27:02Well, that's difficult
27:03that a policeman
27:04I say from this
27:05I would make it happen.
27:05Yes, but on top of that
27:06at the time
27:06the passage
27:07from one tape to another
27:08it wasn't done
27:09with the microphones.
27:10Well, but then
27:10in short, poor policemen
27:11let's cut this cross
27:12it would seem absurd to me.
27:14Yet this
27:14they wrote it
27:14as justification.
27:16At that time,
27:17let's go again
27:18to the story
27:18that impressed you
27:19of Commissioner Genova.
27:23AND...
27:23she is tortured
27:24another one too
27:25young woman
27:25stripped
27:27And...
27:27like that one
27:29that we have heard
27:30to the trial.
27:31It's something else now, isn't it?
27:33What was happening
27:34when they undressed
27:35these women?
27:36What does he say?
27:37the commissioner?
27:39In this...
27:41in these
27:42violence
27:43let's say physical
27:44it didn't work...
27:46Even in the background
27:46sexual
27:47on the woman?
27:48Let's say
27:48sexually oriented
27:49not in the sense...
27:51we can call them
27:52sexual violence,
27:53Yes,
27:54because practically
27:54it was semi...
27:56it came semi
27:56stripped naked,
27:57pilloried,
27:59transformed
28:00in a sort of
28:00of object
28:01on which it was possible
28:03they could have been done
28:04let's say
28:05a whole series
28:06of phraseologies
28:07I am trying to say
28:08vulgar
28:09I am trying to say
28:09also of
28:10on impulse
28:12Even touching it
28:14AND...
28:14partly yes,
28:15partly yes.
28:17Genoa also speaks
28:18of vulgar phrases,
28:19No?
28:19Like that one
28:20that we heard
28:21in the box.
28:22There are so many things,
28:23No?
28:23that match
28:24and then
28:25At that time
28:25you
28:26naturally
28:26you said several times
28:28this sentence,
28:29these few words
28:30let me sleep, okay?
28:31At that time,
28:32we feel
28:32another testimony,
28:33another young woman,
28:34we are always
28:35in the classroom
28:35of the court
28:36what does he say?
28:38I was
28:39beaten,
28:39tortured
28:40and they wouldn't leave me
28:41sleep.
28:42Let's hear it.
28:45They had me
28:46stripped,
28:47they had pulled me
28:48underwear down
28:49And
28:53they tore me away
28:54the pubic pears
28:56And
28:57they were twisting me
28:58the nipples,
28:59they gave me
28:59of the beatings
29:01on the stomach,
29:02on the abdomen
29:02and some
29:03slap
29:05And
29:06Then
29:07they had put me
29:08against a table
29:09and they had me
29:10threatened
29:11to rape me
29:12with a stick.
29:14I had
29:14the feeling
29:15of having done
29:16at least
29:17a 7-8 hour period
29:18on the chair
29:18after the abuse.
29:20Oh, I understand.
29:22Listen,
29:23during these
29:247 hours
29:24on the chair
29:25she was disturbed
29:27in the sense
29:28to avoid
29:29that she
29:29did he fall asleep?
29:30Yes,
29:32every time
29:33that my head was falling off
29:34because I was falling asleep
29:36they woke me up.
29:40Sure, you know,
29:41it makes an impression
29:42Why
29:43if on one hand
29:44I think
29:45in a certain way
29:46a sort
29:46of relief
29:47if that one
29:48it wasn't Emanuela
29:49but on the other hand
29:49I think that
29:50someone else
29:50he suffered.
29:53Let's take into account
29:54they told
29:56then there was
29:56a judgment
29:57etc.
29:58And
29:59they were
30:00condemned
30:01only for the false
30:02shooting
30:03they had taken
30:03a brigadier
30:04and they had told him
30:05we'll kill you
30:05but
30:08but of course
30:09it makes an impression
30:09This
30:10let me sleep
30:11Why
30:11we then have
30:12I thought of something
30:13it's not Emanuela
30:13it's not fiction
30:15you have to find
30:16but that girl
30:17it must be understood
30:17that little gas
30:18it must be understood
30:18who is
30:19Why
30:19then that girl
30:20whatever comes
30:21tortured
30:21because at the beginning
30:22the services say
30:23there is no fiction
30:24Exactly
30:25it's impossible
30:26that it is fiction
30:27then you have to find
30:28that girl
30:28at a certain point
30:29he says no
30:30then it's a porn movie
30:30and this fact
30:31of the porn film
30:32it closes you
30:33he closed
30:34that topic
30:34since '83
30:36until 2016
30:38there has never been one
30:38most talked about
30:39because it was a thing
30:40now passed
30:40but also after
30:41if you consider
30:42you took it out
30:43the box
30:44we talked about it
30:45but
30:45it's clear that
30:46but there is someone
30:47who put the stone above
30:48he said
30:48But look, it's a porn movie
30:50you can talk about it
30:50as far as I can see
30:51but it's a porn movie
30:51the box anyway
30:52I didn't even find it
30:53in the prosecutor's office
30:53anywhere
30:54because it was in the archives
30:55you the original
30:57you didn't find it
30:58never
30:59that would be very important
31:00because I repeat
31:01with technology
31:02today
31:03from that audio cassette
31:04can pull out
31:04so many things
31:05but this girl
31:06she's alive
31:07At that time
31:08us obviously
31:09we didn't name names
31:10No
31:11Certain
31:11Certain
31:11this girl
31:13which clearly
31:14she is a woman
31:15but we have done some
31:17feel three
31:17but Peter
31:18we made three heard
31:19that are alive
31:20but I ask
31:21but he was made to listen
31:22the audio cassette too
31:23No
31:24This
31:26what we did now
31:28it's an operation
31:29what we did now
31:30that no one has ever done
31:31in the sense
31:31Nobody
31:32we would like to get closer
31:33clearly these people
31:35and after so many years
31:36maybe they don't want to talk about it anymore
31:38because after all
31:38it was a dark time
31:40of our Republic
31:40which is an injustice though
31:42which remained
31:42injustice
31:43but it's an injustice
31:44which remained
31:45an injustice
31:45in large comparisons
31:46because the problem is
31:48that with your sister
31:50they were made
31:51a series of red herrings
31:52because they were needed
31:53some things
31:54from the services
31:55just in case
31:55of countries
31:57beings
31:57etc.
31:57so in the name
31:59of your sister
31:59it was done
32:00a bit of everything
32:00understand why
32:01what was it for?
32:02get that audio out
32:03tying it to the story
32:04by Emanuella
32:05that at that moment
32:05I had
32:07a listen
32:08worldwide
32:09we were only talking about that
32:10that is, to understand
32:11what was it for?
32:13this passage
32:15It's an important question
32:16I repeat that
32:17two days later
32:17two days later
32:19the 19th
32:19why this audio
32:20it came out publicly
32:21the 18th
32:22and two days later
32:24the Vatican
32:25he granted
32:25that direct line
32:26with the Secretary of State
32:27because you could call
32:29to the Secretary of State
32:29it's just that it's not a normal thing
32:30a direct line
32:31with the Secretary of State
32:32At that time
32:33but we
32:34let's continue to make the roll call
32:35if anyone by chance
32:36has some inspections
32:37of a porn movie
32:37that he can do it
32:38let's say
32:39that can help us
32:39that is excluded
32:40we excluded it
32:42us since 2016
32:43that we exclude it
32:44Then
32:45I thank you
32:46you always say
32:47but I this cassette
32:48I brought it in 2016
32:49to anyone who saw it
32:49but that one there
32:51for us
32:51it is to be excluded
32:52unless
32:53that there is not
32:54proof to the contrary
32:54bring us the porn movie
32:56and we believe it
32:57because if not
32:57it's an important thing
32:59because it's a hypothesis
33:00which never came out
33:01up to now
33:01it has always been about
33:02of a few moments
33:02and understand
33:03but then I didn't find it
33:04in the cards
33:05Peter
33:05the strange thing
33:06this thing is the porn movie
33:07you told me
33:08that you were told
33:09to your father
33:09Yes
33:09they said it verbally
33:10Calm
33:10I was told that too
33:12but I'm in the cards
33:13Certain
33:14black and white
33:15I didn't see it
33:16Yes
33:16it was a story
33:17which was supposed to be closed there
33:18and no one was supposed to talk about it
33:19it should have been closed there
33:19this box
33:20this is what it does to us
33:21I hope
33:21you know there's an open investigation
33:22there is an open commission
33:24that I hope
33:24that they take into consideration
33:26this thing
33:27maybe
33:27then we then
33:28we continue to work
33:30you know it
33:30next to you family members
33:31and I want to tell you
33:34which among other things
33:35the transcriptions
33:36that have been made
33:37I'll let you hear this
33:38because then you
33:39you always help us
33:40I heard
33:41let me sleep
33:42but there is a transcript
33:43always services
33:44which instead
33:47it's the system
33:48in this case
33:49what does he say?
33:51which translates like this
33:52I had to give you
33:53that phone number
33:55this remained the doubt
33:56this too
33:57it remained
33:58then if we can
33:59make you feel
34:00the audio
34:01with
34:02with the various writings
34:04we did it
34:04with
34:05with both
34:06you should close your eyes
34:08to hear it
34:09because otherwise
34:09it's complicated
34:11but there is a transcript
34:12Always
34:13of the services
34:13what does he say?
34:14the girl doesn't say
34:16now let me sleep
34:17but he says
34:17I had to give you
34:18that phone number
34:19We see
34:36I do not know
34:38who translated it
34:39in this other way
34:40they translated it
34:41I feel
34:43I perceive
34:45let me sleep now
34:46then now
34:47In short
34:49I believe
34:50Peter
34:51but it's something that
34:52No
34:52so much
34:54congratulations on your work
34:54to whoever did it
34:56Why
34:56the team
34:57me but Giuliani
34:58in this case
34:58he's in the lead
34:59I said it
34:59because it allowed us
35:00to make this page
35:02which is complicated
35:02can also bring
35:03to another situation
35:05and at the same time
35:07let's say
35:08free history
35:09by Emanuela
35:09with the question
35:10of the audio cassette
35:11if it has nothing to do with it
35:12and only remains
35:13to understand
35:14of why they wanted
35:15tie these two things together
35:16at the time
35:17and to whom it was addressed
35:18that message
35:18but
35:19let's say
35:20I repeat it
35:21July 17th
35:22the box is found
35:23July 15th
35:23they are condemned
35:25some officials
35:26of the State
35:27for these
35:27then they were acquitted
35:28No?
35:29No
35:30actually
35:31Then
35:31over the years
35:33there was an amnesty
35:34but they were convicted
35:36for the shooting
35:38to Deleonardi
35:40now I would like to get the name wrong
35:42a fake execution
35:43OK
35:43they took this
35:45this character
35:46precisely
35:47contigo alle BR
35:48and they made him understand
35:50that they were shooting him
35:51Therefore
35:52Cesare Deleonardi
35:54and then Peter
35:55a complicated page
35:56it's difficult
35:57but that
35:57I think it doesn't end here
35:59In my opinion
36:00it needs to be explored further
36:01and it does good too
36:03bring things out again
36:04that happened
36:05because after all
36:05they make us think
36:07anyway thanks
36:09thanks to you
36:10that you are with us
36:11In short
36:11Always
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