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00:00In this case, what happened to Natalina's sister, Manuela Orlandi?
00:04Good evening to Antonio Mancini, because he will help us on this journey,
00:10because we try to understand, together with you obviously we have to clarify,
00:16Who is this Marcello Neroni, member of the Magliana gang,
00:19who spoke and said defamatory things about John Paul II,
00:26but not only on the Pope, but also on Manuela and another girl.
00:31Since Antonio Mancini was part of the Magliana gang, he will be able to tell us.
00:36But first I wanted to say something to Natalina,
00:42that is, I think it's right that you family members, Peter in particular,
00:45bring everything there is, even if there are some defamatory things,
00:50everything you have received, because then there must be investigators,
00:54in this case there is the Vatican's promoter of justice, Diddi,
00:58so he brought this cassette, because everything obviously has to be on file.
01:04But not only the cassette, because he was there for eight hours talking to them,
01:07He also brought documentation, he brought everything he had collected over the years,
01:14the doubts, the news he had, everything,
01:19why don't they investigate, like we policemen do ourselves,
01:26but there must be someone else who checks everything carefully,
01:33there may have been some misunderstandings over the years,
01:38some things that haven't been clarified, why not clarify them all?
01:42In fact, we also hope that the commission of inquiry will make progress.
01:50So, no, no, but what I wanted to say,
01:52if you family members have in your hands a document, an audio, an interview, an anonymous letter,
01:58whatever comes to your mailbox,
02:02you rightly hand it over to the investigators,
02:05because you can't just show off and keep it to yourself.
02:08which are first examined, at least by us,
02:12in those that seem truly absurd to us,
02:15and then the rest.
02:18But Peter asked to be received many times,
02:21over the years, now how many years have passed.
02:23Now he had finally reached this moment,
02:28and he had been very happy to be able to go and carry everything,
02:32to free himself too of all the burdens he had,
02:36which he couldn't talk to anyone about.
02:38So, look, we'll let you hear this audio,
02:44It's a chat, it seems, more than an interview,
02:49it's a chat, and probably whoever was talking,
02:51Marcello Neroni, no...
02:54Can you hear me, Antonio?
02:55Because I always say,
02:56the gunshots...
02:57I'll make you a cup of tea.
02:58Well, it's the gunshots that have made you a little deaf, not your age.
03:01But then, I say this for those who don't know Antonio Mancini,
03:08but you all know it by now,
03:10usually the curriculum studied, I don't know, in Oxford,
03:13he took his master's degree here and there,
03:15instead I say you were in jail because you were a killer,
03:18then he collaborated with justice,
03:20which is different from being sorry,
03:22Anyway, you're someone who was in the Magliana gang.
03:27and you know everyone and you also know this Marcello Neroni.
03:30Now, what happens?
03:31That this Marcello Neroni starts to chatter
03:34and talks about it with Alessandro Ambrosini.
03:41Now, look, so as not to beep everywhere,
03:43because he really names a lot of names,
03:46but since the question that has been raised
03:48and which we want to talk about transparently,
03:51we are even talking about the Pope, the Holy Pope John Paul II,
03:55we have extracted this part of this chat for you.
04:22they called within the Vatican.
04:24When they needed something, who did they turn to?
04:28Well, De Peti also knew Marcello Neroni.
04:31No, no, no.
04:32No.
04:33De Peti knew each other.
04:34And here's the thing about the Calvis, all that on bikes.
04:36It's a whole different ball game.
04:38We do?
04:40It's a whole different ball game.
04:44That is, then, votive.
04:48We'll stop here for a moment, then we'll continue.
04:50Here is the most infamous thing,
04:52towards the Pope, but also towards your sister,
04:55because he's talking about Emanuela and another slut.
04:59And just hearing this word,
05:01dirty, let's say,
05:02for us who are in the business of getting fucked,
05:04pretty disgusting, huh?
05:05In short, it makes an impression.
05:06It already gives you an idea, but come on,
05:07but who's a chatterbox at the bar?
05:09I mean, by the way, Emanuela, but who's the other slut?
05:11We don't always know if it refers, I don't know,
05:14to Mirella Gregori.
05:15We don't know, in short.
05:17But I have to say it's impressive,
05:20this smearing a girl,
05:22say Emanuela is the other slut.
05:24And this makes us indignant.
05:27Antonio, I ask you,
05:28because all of us, at some point,
05:29we discovered that there is a Marcello Neroni,
05:31who is part of the Magliana gang
05:34and who knows how many things he would know,
05:36on what happened to Emanuela Orlandi
05:38and what was happening in the Vatican.
05:40But who is this Marcello Neroni?
05:42First of all I want to say
05:46that when I read these things on the internet
05:48of the Neros' warnings,
05:52the first thing that came to my mind was
05:53if this is the confessor of the Vedicists,
05:56I am Gianna Nannini.
05:57That said,
05:59I've known Neroni since the 60s,
06:01when Rome was not yet criminal,
06:04but only criminal.
06:06And he was the one who,
06:08since he had strong hands,
06:09he knew how to fight,
06:11that was it, as I define it,
06:12fabric softeners
06:14who went from the rioters
06:17to make them more malleable.
06:18That they didn't want to pay.
06:20That is, the rioters were those
06:22who didn't want to pay.
06:23Those who did not want to pay,
06:24those who did not give in to the authors.
06:26Fabric softeners,
06:26it's a particular term.
06:28Listen, Antonio,
06:29but did De Pedis trust this Neroni?
06:32That is, he was a person considered
06:35of thickness in the band and for De Pedis?
06:38So, I speak,
06:39but I usually always bring
06:41proof of what I say.
06:45You know I've been arrested
06:47when there was the famous
06:50Operation Colosseum.
06:52And among these arrests
06:54there was this Marcello Neroni.
06:57Marcello Neroni...
06:58I, since when I get arrested
07:00the sheets of documents
07:02I love studying them,
07:04because I who lived them
07:06I can spot some inconsistencies.
07:08Maybe better than a lawyer
07:09it could also be, I don't know,
07:11for the Masons,
07:11but I did it.
07:14And in those cards
07:16two things struck me.
07:18One was that this Marcello Neroni
07:21he spoke more than he guarded
07:23that his companions.
07:24And the second one
07:26is that Renatino,
07:27unlike what he claims today,
07:31he treated him like a flunky.
07:33Why is there
07:34Villandorme Talks Paper,
07:36an episode where
07:39Renato
07:39he sends it
07:41to...
07:42how do you say?
07:43To give advance notice
07:44of the arrival of a
07:46little dog,
07:47of a tangent,
07:48how do you say?
07:48Of extortion.
07:49Of extortion.
07:50He goes,
07:52it goes in the name of Renato,
07:53naturally,
07:54because if he went in his name,
07:55I do not know,
07:55something could be gleaned.
07:58This is scary,
07:59this trader,
08:01and says okay.
08:03When there was
08:04to go
08:04to establish
08:07the entity
08:08of the bribe,
08:09he didn't go there
08:10Nero,
08:11he went there
08:12De Pedi himself
08:13and after being
08:15reached an agreement,
08:16in the end,
08:17as they hugged each other
08:18the hand,
08:20he recommended
08:20to the guy,
08:21he imposed on him,
08:22not to say
08:23Nothing
08:24to Nero,
08:25to Nero
08:26of this happened...
08:28How much was it?
08:29the figure.
08:31Yes,
08:32in simple words,
08:33what does this mean?
08:34That he
08:34De Mero,
08:35Nero,
08:36not only
08:36he didn't trust,
08:38he didn't respect him,
08:39he was not his friend,
08:40but it was nothing else
08:41which one to use
08:42as he used so much of it.
08:44A softness,
08:45it makes an impression.
08:45Look,
08:45this is what they are
08:46in judicial documents,
08:47huh?
08:47No, then,
08:48At that time,
08:48since the Colosseum operation
08:49naturally
08:50we have it,
08:51there is Francesco Paolo Del Rey,
08:53Maggiuliani
08:53who are in the editorial office,
08:55we can indeed
08:56look for
08:57this is what Mancini tells us,
08:59which surely
09:00the paper will be there,
09:01soon
09:03Surely
09:03they'll get it out of me.
09:05I would like to add
09:06just one thing,
09:07that saintly man
09:08by De Pedis
09:08as he would say
09:09Don Vergari.
09:10That saintly man
09:11by De Pedis
09:11as he would say
09:12Don Vergari.
09:13By the way,
09:14No,
09:14I,
09:15let's say,
09:16I was cited
09:17several times
09:18Why
09:18when I was saying
09:19who was a criminal
09:20which was part
09:21of the band
09:21of the Magliana
09:22I was challenged
09:23that he was innocent
09:24but why
09:25he had died before
09:26and he couldn't
09:27let's say
09:28participate
09:28to the trials,
09:29No?
09:29You with De Pedis
09:30you worked on it
09:32in quotation marks,
09:33No?
09:33the fact that
09:34the crimes,
09:35all crimes
09:36what could they do to us.
09:37Everyone,
09:37even if he was shooting
09:39Also,
09:39No?
09:40At the time.
09:40Together
09:40I'll name a name
09:42we killed
09:44Tonino Reccese,
09:46Tonino Reccese,
09:48now when I say
09:49kill
09:49it doesn't mean
09:50that someone who shoots
09:51since we were
09:52in three
09:52me and him
09:53we burned
09:53the most skilled
09:54to ride the motorbike
09:55it was him
09:56he shouldn't have shot
09:57but he had to drive
09:59anyway, anyway
10:00a commando
10:01beautiful and good
10:01then we
10:02we have established ourselves
10:03that Marcello Nero
10:05he says about it
10:08Pope Voitiva
10:09among other things
10:09there are those who are there
10:11and says
10:11but how
10:12my Pope
10:12No?
10:13Your Pope
10:13in short, there's one left
10:14even badly
10:14to hear these things
10:16then we
10:17let's move on
10:17we stayed
10:20hit
10:21then definitely
10:22there is something to give
10:22little credit
10:23let's say
10:24to what he says
10:25but we stayed
10:26hit
10:27from this
10:28appellation
10:29Emanuela
10:30and the other
10:30dirty girl
10:31that is, we talk
10:32of two sluts
10:33look
10:33we who take care of it
10:35of disappearances
10:36for many years
10:36In short
10:37it horrifies us
10:38that a family member
10:40I have to hear
10:41these things
10:42And
10:43let's continue
10:44with this audio
10:45who has
10:45of the discredit
10:48even together
10:49he brought them
10:49to bed
10:50he brought them
10:51I don't know
10:51he brought them
10:51within
10:52of the Vatican
10:53when it became
10:54one thing
10:54that by now
10:54had become
10:55a piece of crap
10:56the secretary
10:57of State
10:57he decided
10:58to intervene
10:59but not saying
11:00votive
11:01Then
11:01that I'm dying
11:01one and a half euros
11:02he turned to
11:03to whom
11:03to him
11:04being
11:05expert
11:06of the prison
11:07why does it do
11:07the chaplain
11:08reformatory
11:09and then to prison
11:10he turned to
11:10to the chaplains
11:11of the prison
11:12the chaplains
11:13of the prison
11:13one was Calabrian
11:14the other
11:14a smart guy
11:15they did
11:15other than calling
11:16De Petice
11:18and they told him
11:18it's happening
11:19This
11:20if you can lend a hand
11:21point
11:21and now
11:22it's all bullshit
11:23Enough
11:23finished
11:24end of speech
11:25that's about ceminar
11:25it's all bullshit
11:28it seems a bit
11:29the race
11:30say
11:30bullshit
11:30Excuse me
11:31the term
11:32in your opinion
11:32a
11:33of the thickness
11:34by Marcello Neroni
11:34could have known
11:35what was happening
11:36in the Vatican
11:37but absolutely
11:38No
11:38but now
11:39I can say
11:40my
11:41Now
11:42That
11:42you tell her
11:43the Pope
11:43you tell her
11:44in the evening
11:45he was going out
11:45by night
11:46he was going
11:47what do I know
11:47maybe he was going
11:48the GEO
11:48Then
11:49in the evening
11:513-4
11:52as this says
11:53was missing
11:54Alone
11:54cocaine
11:54era
11:55Dad
11:56Belushi
11:57for those who haven't seen
11:59the film
11:59Blue Brothers
12:00but anyway
12:01the viewers
12:02At that time
12:02but sorry
12:03I don't understand
12:04who is
12:05that he put on him
12:06immediately the hand
12:06in the mouth
12:07and I told him
12:07Oh
12:08you're getting bigger
12:09ninth
12:10but this is clear
12:12what however
12:13I care about it
12:14to clarify
12:15if there is
12:16the name
12:17of a person
12:18disappearance
12:18a family member
12:19he has a box
12:20an audio
12:21an interview
12:21an anonymous complaint
12:22an anonymous letter
12:24or clearly
12:24he has to give it
12:25to whom it is due
12:26occupy
12:27and this
12:28this however
12:29reopens
12:29a wound
12:30Why
12:31to me
12:32Natalina
12:33I'm doing some
12:33filth
12:34he gave me
12:34a nuisance
12:35terrible
12:36own
12:36yes yes but
12:37no one was shocked
12:38because they gave
12:39some filth
12:39to Emanuela
12:40another girl
12:41possibly
12:42this is it for me
12:43what bothers me the most
12:45and what a shame
12:46over the years
12:47No
12:47you are there
12:48a family
12:49always so many
12:50toads
12:51precisely
12:52we have
12:53a certain
12:54education
12:55yes but
12:56Nobody
12:57has he ever been scandalized
12:58When
12:58certain journalists
12:59they said
13:00that we were
13:00raised in the Vatican
13:01because we had to
13:02to please
13:03the internal prelates
13:04or that my father
13:06he was aware
13:07of everything
13:08and even worse things
13:11because they told us
13:11which was freedom
13:12of print
13:14At that time
13:14I
13:15what happened
13:17that Francis
13:17Paul of the King
13:17of course he went
13:18to look for it
13:19to Marcello Neroni
13:20because we wanted
13:21understand precisely
13:22we think
13:23that he didn't think
13:24to be registered
13:25why does it do so much
13:26many names
13:26Truly
13:27That
13:29that there is something for everyone
13:30and we went
13:32we went
13:33where he lives
13:34but
13:35he didn't answer
13:37to Francis
13:38Paul of the King
13:38and we imagine
13:39that he called
13:40the son
13:41why immediately
13:42it has arrived
13:42the son
13:44and let's see
13:44what happened
13:45the son of
13:46Marcello Neroni
13:52regarding the fact
13:53by Emanuele Orlandi
13:54to find
13:55the solution
13:55of the miato
13:56Excuse me
13:57At that time
13:58there is this
13:59for the direction
14:00we put it
14:01After
14:01This
14:01why Francesco
14:03Paul of the King
14:03he just arrived
14:04in the editorial office
14:05even a little bit
14:06out of breath
14:06with a microphone
14:07now you see it
14:09everything broken
14:09etc.
14:10Now
14:10you will understand why
14:12if the direction
14:12he gives me a nod
14:13if it's ready
14:14if Michele Bonica
14:16he poured it on us
14:17as promptly
14:18we have it
14:22I apologize
14:23if I disturb
14:26my name is
14:27Francis Paul
14:28of the King
14:28I am a journalist
14:29no I'll explain it to him
14:31what's there
14:32no I wanted to ask
14:33if it's possible
14:34a help
14:34I realize
14:35that I'm coming
14:36I realize
14:37that I'm coming
14:37to disturb
14:38and I apologize
14:39I really
14:40I don't want to disturb her
14:41I apologize
14:41it's bothering me
14:42but
14:42because if it's a fucking thing of mine
14:43I had to come here
14:44I have to mind our own business
14:45what the fuck to do
14:46we would like
14:47if it's possible
14:49talk to his dad
14:50we wouldn't want to
14:50know nothing from anyone
14:52the father
14:52it does not matter
14:53since 93
14:54he had no problems
14:55with his father
14:55no but I
14:56I don't know him
14:57his father
14:57and not
14:58you won't even know him
14:59make them carabinieri
15:00no no no
15:01we don't want deaf people
15:02we don't want anything
15:02we don't just want trouble
15:03Can I tell you something?
15:04leave us alone
15:05don't start
15:06why I call the police
15:07No
15:08leave us to ourselves
15:09we don't know anything
15:10I'll tell you something
15:11and then I'm going away
15:12and it should be approached
15:13why I praise the dog
15:14no no for goodness sake
15:15I'll turn your dog on
15:16who is crazy about legs
15:17I just wanted to ask you
15:18if your mom wanted to tell us
15:19something about Emanuele Orlando
15:20he still understood you
15:21and we're going to fuck you
15:23out
15:23I didn't come here anymore
15:24Excuse me
15:25he got disturbed
15:25no no me
15:26that's how I was before
15:27I mean, I'm the same as I was before
15:29it's not that I'm doing them
15:29did he record?
15:31the microphone is on
15:32what did he record
15:32let me see
15:33he can't see anything on the microphone
15:34hand
15:35but don't do that
15:36I don't do that
15:37but who is going to believe that it is
15:38to come from the fucking cock to the fucking cock
15:39Nobody
15:41we're leaving
15:42look, don't do that
15:43we're not leaving anymore
15:45let's see what I say
15:46give it back to me please
15:51nice little setting, eh Antonio
15:53This
15:53At that time
15:54don't start
15:57they started it
15:58eh don't start
15:59it's the father who did it
16:01all these statements
16:02among other things on the two
16:03among other things the microphone
16:06that we will take into account
16:07to Francesco Paolo del Re
16:08Baghi Gregoretti
16:09naturally
16:10no I'm kidding
16:11that is, our Francesco Paolo del Re
16:13then he told him
16:14give me back the microphone
16:14because he threw it on the ground
16:16so you see it
16:16it's all broken
16:17and I think that attracted him
16:19In short
16:19but Francesco Paolo
16:21he's in the gym
16:21he is handsome and athletic
16:22this is what we say
16:23it's the environment
16:24among other things
16:24a strange thing
16:25because he says
16:26we don't want money
16:27but who asked him for the money?
16:28we don't pay anyone
16:30so we
16:30he says we don't want the money
16:31However, this fact surprised us
16:33and then
16:35I would like to make you understand this evening
16:37what has to happen
16:39a family
16:40on which never
16:41you have to throw away
16:42of the mud
16:44no Natalina
16:44Why
16:45because you are the victims
16:47you are really the real victims
16:48so what
16:49it always seems like we are the ones
16:50that we have to justify ourselves
16:51for anything
16:52Exactly
16:52you don't have to justify yourselves
16:54and above all
16:55there is no need to throw mud
16:56on no one obviously
16:57less than less
16:58on the Pope
17:00but anyway
17:00which he naturally had
17:01even Pope Francis
17:02then in short
17:03they all revolted
17:04for the words
17:05by Marcello Neroni
17:06At that time
17:06what's happening
17:08because we are coming
17:09to the Magliana gang
17:11why we come to you
17:12why is this famous one coming?
17:14phone call
17:15who speaks to us
17:16by De Pedis
17:16because then from there
17:17everything
17:18it begins
17:19arrives in the editorial office
17:21when we decide
17:22and I call Natalina
17:24and I ask her
17:24if he agrees
17:25and she
17:26that day
17:27he tells me
17:27I want to understand
17:28where are you going with this?
17:29precisely because
17:30they had heard so many things
17:31of mud
17:32you don't
17:32you told me
17:33Look
17:33let's try to understand
17:35where are we going
17:36and I said
17:36we try to make you open up
17:38this case
17:38the case is reopened
17:39with this phone call
17:44regarding the fact
17:45by Emanuele Orlandi
17:46to find the solution
17:47of the case
17:47go and see
17:48which is buried
17:49in the grip
17:49of the Basilica
17:50of Saint Polinare
17:51and of the favor
17:52that Renatino
17:53he made to Cardinal Poletti
17:54at the time
17:57Renatino Enrico De Pedis
17:58that in quotation marks
18:00he worked with Antonio Mancini
18:02and at the time
18:03he had a relationship
18:04with Minardi
18:05Sabrina Minardi
18:06the ex-wife
18:08by Bruno Giordani
18:09the ex-wife
18:10that he will not be happy
18:11to be cited
18:12in this case
18:13but
18:13she is a beautiful woman
18:15a beautiful one
18:16young woman
18:17and of course
18:18when it gets there
18:19this phone call
18:20us
18:20let's try to meet her
18:23And
18:24when we meet her
18:26it's completely different
18:27it's swollen
18:28you can see he had it
18:29a life
18:30which is not a normal life
18:32it's not a healthy life
18:33drugs were circulating
18:35in your environment
18:36No?
18:36And
18:37precisely
18:38let's consider
18:39that the band
18:39of the Magliana
18:40he controlled and dealt
18:41drugs in the capital
18:42Raffaella Notarial
18:44he asks her
18:44if he knows something
18:46Of
18:46Manuela
18:47Orlandi
18:49she has something to do with it
18:50with the kidnapping
18:51by Manuela Orlandi?
18:52Lady
18:53I hope
18:53that she
18:54he's joking
18:55in asking me
18:56or maybe
18:57he's saying it
18:58in an ironic way
18:59this question
19:01Meaning what
19:02but
19:03absolutely
19:04No
19:05Meaning what
19:05I this girl
19:07with this band on my head
19:08I see it everywhere
19:09Why
19:10there are photos
19:11everywhere
19:12but
19:13are you joking?
19:14Meaning what
19:14this is one thing
19:15that I'm sorry
19:16that she made me
19:18this question
19:18Why
19:19Meaning what
19:20it's not that I'm
19:21exculpating
19:22I
19:22I'm just
19:24saying
19:25Meaning what
19:25from a fact I did
19:27he says
19:27you want to exonerate yourself
19:28I'm just
19:29saying
19:30and I will fight
19:31until the last
19:32with nails
19:33and with teeth
19:34how do you say
19:34For
19:35are you joking?
19:37but I have a daughter
19:3925 years old
19:41In short
19:41Meaning what
19:43absolutely
19:44No
19:45absolutely
19:46On the contrary
19:47I'm telling you the truth
19:48if I knew
19:49where is it
19:50what happened to him
19:51but it would be me
19:52the first
19:52to take it out
19:56absolutely
19:56No
19:57it would be me
19:57the first
19:58to take it out
19:59this tells us
20:00in the first public outing
20:01in the first outing
20:02that does it right
20:03with us
20:03of those who saw it
20:04but then
20:04Minardi
20:05he thinks again
20:06and says
20:07to the police
20:08De Pedis
20:09he handed it to me
20:12I arrived there
20:13at the Gianicolo Bar
20:14with a car
20:15then Renato
20:16Mr. De Pedis
20:17with whom in that period
20:19I was in a relationship
20:20he told me to take
20:21another car
20:22which was a BMW
20:23and to accompany
20:25Meaning what
20:25this girl arrived
20:27a little girl
20:28this girl is coming
20:29and he told me
20:30if I accompanied her
20:31up to below
20:32where is the gas station attendant
20:33of the Vatican
20:34that there would be
20:35a machine
20:36Vatican City license plate
20:37that he was waiting for
20:38this girl
20:39I accompanied her
20:40so I did
20:42during the journey
20:44I don't know how long
20:45it had passed
20:45from the kidnapping
20:46by Emanuela Orlandi
20:47I identified her
20:49like Emanuela Orlandi
20:52this too
20:53you had to hear
20:54over the years
20:55that is, certainty
20:56that was
20:56in this machine
20:57flow rate
20:58who knows where
20:58soon
20:59we'll see
21:00but
21:00let's take a short break
21:02and then we look for
21:03to understand
21:03where it is necessary
21:05arrive
21:22So Natalia
21:23among other things
21:23your father
21:24there is dead
21:24in the sense
21:25that had us
21:26edited by him
21:26of newspapers
21:28in hand
21:28intensive care
21:30he asked us
21:30why there must be
21:31of the broadcasts
21:32they had to go out
21:33some news
21:34he wanted to read
21:34and see the newspapers
21:35and he didn't know
21:36what happened next
21:38No
21:38At that time
21:38Minardi
21:39naturally
21:40us precisely
21:41having the contact
21:43with her
21:43Raffaella Notarial
21:45he asks her
21:46but
21:46De Pedis
21:47may have done
21:48something
21:49that is, to search
21:50to understand
21:51if
21:51Anyway
21:53Minardi
21:54knew something
21:54on De Pedis
21:55and Emanuele Orlandi
21:57let's see what
21:58he answers us
22:00Mrs. Minardi
22:01that he knows them
22:02Enrico De Pedis
22:04it has to do with the kidnapping
22:06by Emanuele Orlandi
22:07have you ever heard anything?
22:08on this fact
22:10listen
22:11I premised
22:12the fact that
22:13Henry
22:15Renato
22:15he was a person
22:17That
22:18when he was at home
22:19with
22:20with a woman
22:21or with his woman
22:23well, at that moment I
22:24I felt like I was
22:25his woman
22:27Why
22:27it was him who made me
22:28feel
22:29we were talking
22:32of everything
22:33we were joking
22:34we laughed
22:35but
22:36absolutely
22:37not at all
22:39that is me
22:39it's not that I don't know
22:40Not at all
22:42by Emanuele Orlandi
22:43I don't know anything
22:44of his life
22:46that is, of that
22:47that he did
22:48he didn't do it
22:49I don't know
22:49absolutely nothing
22:51that many
22:52some things
22:53which have been
22:53attributed
22:54to the band
22:54of the Magliana
22:55in part
22:56they are true
22:56in part
22:57invented
22:58then there is something
22:59that is not known
22:59In short
23:00I am trying to say
23:01there's a little bit
23:01of confusion
23:02environment
23:03to the band
23:03of the Magliana
23:06Here you are
23:06Today
23:08I told her
23:09of the kidnapping
23:10by Emanuele Orlandi
23:11I Renato
23:12I don't do it
23:13a man
23:14Like this
23:17I would say
23:18bad
23:19I would use a term
23:19simple
23:20but
23:20direct
23:22which can
23:24hit
23:25a little girl
23:26she can tell me
23:27answer
23:27At that time
23:29Nicitra
23:33evidently
23:34he had done it
23:35big
23:36bigger
23:37of ours
23:38prejudices
23:39no prejudices
23:40principles
23:42At that time
23:43death
23:44of the little one
23:44Dominic
23:45Nicitra
23:46opens another one
23:46very sad
23:47page
23:48then there are some
23:49we will talk
23:49but let's continue
23:50Sabrina Minardi
23:51he thinks again
23:52and says
23:53That
23:53she talks to us
23:55with
23:55Emanuele Orlandi
23:56which is inside
23:57the BMW
23:58and there are also
23:59many details
24:02the girl
24:03she was sitting
24:03behind
24:04in the car
24:04how could I
24:05I was looking at her
24:06I had seen
24:07that they had
24:08cut your hair
24:09in an obscene manner
24:10he had a cut
24:11everything even
24:12In short
24:12you could see it
24:13that had been done
24:14a home-made thing
24:15to the girl
24:16I told her
24:17but what's your name?
24:18she answered me
24:19Emanuela
24:20without a surname
24:21he told me
24:22Emanuela
24:22I repeat
24:23she wasn't lucid
24:25conscious
24:25but not shiny
24:26he spoke badly
24:28he spoke badly
24:29he dragged the words
24:30alright
24:30anyway I
24:31when I accompanied her
24:32there was a gentleman
24:33with all the appearances
24:34to be a priest
24:35she was wearing a long dress
24:37the hat
24:38with wide skirts
24:39got out of the black Mercedes
24:41and I let it go down
24:42the girl
24:42Good evening
24:43was she waiting for me?
24:45Yes
24:45Yes
24:46I really think so
24:47he looked at the girl
24:48he took the girl
24:50and got into his car
24:51then after me
24:53I
24:53after I realized
24:55which was
24:55when I came back up
24:57from Renato
24:57I told him
24:58Arena
24:58but wasn't that?
25:00he said
25:01you recognized her
25:03it's better if you don't recognize her
25:04mind your own business
25:05and I told him
25:07in the midst of what trouble
25:08never missa?
25:09and he told me
25:10no hassle
25:13then it's quite the opposite
25:14of everything
25:15and this family
25:16had to
25:17feel this too
25:19Natalina
25:19you had to hear
25:20that they had cut
25:21the hair
25:22to your sister
25:22in an obscene way
25:24that I am
25:25which is important
25:26this thing
25:26they are special
25:28but what images
25:29you family members
25:30why us
25:30it took us a long time
25:31to take those pictures
25:33from tandem
25:33ours took her
25:35Vittoria Polato
25:36of your sister
25:38who participated
25:40he did it again
25:40without seeing
25:41concrete
25:42a flat image
25:44in this broadcast
25:45television
25:46if we can send
25:47the images are on air
25:48which practically
25:48you can see
25:49you can see
25:50Emanuele Orlandi
25:53With the Adi
25:54Applause
26:02Here it is
26:03it's her
26:04with this black hair
26:05a beautiful girl
26:07which then
26:07Natalina
26:08It is true
26:08we are used to it
26:09to see the flat
26:10in the sense
26:10with photographs
26:11with the stripe
26:12instead here
26:12we see it
26:13and we see it too
26:14standing
26:16with these of his
26:17beautiful
26:18hair
26:18blacks
26:19it seems
26:20a century ago
26:21At that time
26:22it's all cruel
26:23also feel
26:24that there is a girl
26:25which is in state
26:25confusing
26:26in a BMW
26:27that they cut off
26:28the hair
26:29in an obscene manner
26:30but maybe
26:30the cruelest thing
26:32of all
26:32it's the audio
26:33that they made us feel
26:34of a young woman
26:35who complains
26:36and they made it heard
26:37to your family
26:39to me first
26:40Right back at you
26:41No?
26:42that is, the first
26:43you heard it
26:43this box
26:44to know
26:46if it was
26:46the voice
26:47of your sister
26:48No
26:48they made me feel it
26:50and then there was
26:51Doctor Sica
26:53at the time
26:54and then
26:55he told me
26:55Don't worry
26:56we already have
26:57questioned
26:58his teachers
26:59of music
27:00and they said
27:01That
27:02it is not
27:03the tone
27:04by Emanuela
27:04it is not
27:06it's not his voice
27:08At that time
27:09but it was
27:10shocking
27:11the same
27:11regardless
27:12if it was Emanuela
27:14or not
27:14Why
27:15who sent
27:16this box
27:17he still has
27:18made to feel
27:19these complaints
27:20to family members
27:21who were waiting
27:22to know
27:22What
27:23had happened
27:25And
27:25let's go
27:31look
27:32as soon as
27:32as soon as it's over
27:34the recording
27:35Meaning what
27:36the audio
27:40type
27:40like when
27:41he arrives
27:42an earthquake
27:44and we go out
27:45you live
27:45from below
27:46the rubble
27:47we were looking at each other
27:47in the face
27:48like gods
27:48we looked at each other
27:50in the face
27:51type
27:52people
27:53wonders
27:54but what happened
27:55Why
27:55it was so
27:56so
28:00strong
28:00strong
28:02in quotation marks
28:03as
28:05torture
28:06that we are
28:07remained
28:07type
28:08oh my god
28:09what they did
28:10these girls
28:10remained a little while
28:11shocked
28:12Here you are
28:12like that
28:13we stayed
28:15shocked
28:15he says
28:16Antonio
28:16Asciore
28:16former
28:17agent
28:18from the
28:18Digos
28:18one of the
28:19first people
28:20to listen
28:21the famous
28:21tape
28:22of the street
28:22from the
28:22date
28:23the audio cassette
28:24made to be found
28:2525 days
28:26after the
28:27disappearance
28:27by Emanuela
28:28Orlandi
28:28from his
28:29alleged
28:30kidnappers
28:30here it is
28:31the recording
28:32a document
28:33chilling
28:41it's the voice
28:41by Emanuela
28:42or I am
28:43clips
28:43of a film
28:44pornographic
28:46and in reality
28:47it's a
28:48torture
28:48very cruel
28:49or it is about
28:50of yet another
28:51misdirection
28:52at the time
28:54I was in the police
28:55I was in Digos
28:56of Rome
28:56San Vitale Street
28:58Antonio
28:58Asciore
28:59he is 21 years old
29:00the uniform on your back
29:01and it's on duty
29:02it's there
29:03and wait
29:04ready to intervene
29:05in case
29:06it is necessary
29:07It's Sunday
29:08July 17th
29:09a day
29:10very hot
29:11which is almost
29:12to finish
29:12as soon as
29:14a few hours
29:14Before
29:14overlooking
29:15at the window
29:16of his
29:16summer residence
29:17of Castel Gandolfo
29:18Dad
29:19John
29:19Paul II
29:20pronounce
29:21yet another
29:22appeal
29:22for liberation
29:23by Emanuela Orlandi
29:24the third
29:25after that
29:26of July 3rd
29:27I would like to express
29:29the lively participation
29:31with whom I am close
29:33to the Orlandi family
29:34which is
29:36in affliction
29:37for the daughter
29:38Emanuela
29:3915 years old
29:42it all begins
29:43with a phone call
29:44that arrives
29:45at the headquarters
29:45of the news agency
29:47ANSA of Rome
29:47which is found
29:48on the way
29:49of the date
29:49a few dozen
29:50of meters
29:51from the staircase
29:51which brings
29:52at the Quirinal
29:52the editor
29:54who responds
29:55listened to
29:55by the investigators
29:56that same night
29:57declares
29:58around 10:35 PM
30:00a phone call came in
30:02on the direct line
30:02of the news
30:03and a voice
30:04of a young man
30:05without inflections
30:06dialectal
30:06and imperfect Italian
30:08he was referring to me
30:08that a cassette
30:09wrapped in a poster
30:11she had been to him
30:12left on the stairs
30:13on Tataria Street
30:14on the left side
30:15the ribbon
30:16it was at my place
30:17withdrawn
30:18and found wrapped
30:18in one piece
30:19of wall posters
30:20torn from a wall
30:21as needed
30:22and complete with case
30:24and nothing
30:25the non-commissioned officer
30:25from the window
30:26I was down
30:28in the courtyard
30:28my name is
30:29and he said
30:29go up a little
30:32I'm going up
30:33and he tells me
30:33get a car
30:34and go to Lanza
30:36they have to give you something
30:38it seems he didn't give me
30:39not even mentioned
30:39what was it about?
30:40Why
30:41I don't remember this
30:43anyway I went there
30:44a gentleman came out
30:45he gave me
30:45this little package
30:46I signed obviously
30:48and I brought it
30:49in the office
30:50and it was
30:50a find
30:52which concerned
30:53Emanuele Orlandi
30:54what does he do next?
30:56I'm going to the office
30:57I get out of the car
30:58I'm going up
30:59and I tell him
30:59to the non-commissioned officer
31:00I said
31:01here it is
31:02it is for you
31:02and then
31:04they called the official
31:05and he said
31:06yes yes
31:08listen to it
31:08and we listened to it
31:16Antonio at that moment
31:17he doesn't know he's there
31:18in front of
31:19to a recording
31:20that after 40 years
31:21one remains
31:22of the greatest
31:23questions
31:24of the Orlandi case
31:25and at the beginning
31:26the one who listens
31:27he doesn't even understand it well
31:28that why
31:30that why
31:31initially
31:32it wasn't clear enough
31:33what it was
31:34they sounded like voices
31:36not very understandable
31:38then it started
31:39to hear some complaints
31:41of a female voice
31:42I don't feel bad
31:45I don't feel bad
31:47a woman's voice
31:48that moans
31:49he complains
31:50and screams
31:50and says
31:51Enough
31:52but there's more to it than that
31:53Antonio Asciore
31:54listen clearly
31:56even the voices
31:56of some men
31:57and describes them to us
31:59I remember though
32:00that the male voices
32:01there were
32:01there were
32:03more than one voice
32:04two or three voices
32:05some with inflections
32:06of reality
32:07others that could not be done
32:09to understand
32:10someone said
32:11only monosyllables
32:13like shut up
32:14and someone instead
32:16he was screaming
32:18own
32:18to intimidate her
32:20ah some screams
32:21voices were screaming
32:22like I'll give you an example
32:24No
32:24the girl is
32:26he's complaining
32:27Of
32:28who is sick
32:29why are they doing it to him
32:30they're doing something to her
32:32but it wasn't clear
32:33What
32:33that she said
32:34Enough
32:35he said
32:35I can't take it anymore
32:36I can't take it anymore
32:37and then
32:38at a certain point
32:39this male voice
32:42he was giving type
32:43a scream
32:43Of
32:44of reproach
32:46type
32:46stop it
32:47like shut up
32:48type
32:48but if you don't stop
32:49it makes you
32:50type
32:50it scared her
32:51and then
32:56in many steps
32:58the girl
32:59while he was complaining
33:00there was a moan
33:04kind of like torture
33:06which increases
33:06of intensity
33:07like for example
33:09I pinch her
33:10then I squeeze more
33:12I squeeze harder
33:12and then she does
33:15increase the intensity
33:16of pain
33:16like that
33:24this person says
33:26this girl
33:26what are they doing to her
33:28oh my god
33:28what are they doing to her
33:29we were looking at each other
33:30in the face
33:31so it's not just one
33:32one of his impressions
33:33but also people
33:34who have listened
33:34they agreed on this thing
33:35in thinking that they were
33:36let's say some complaints
33:38of a person
33:38who was sick
33:39Right?
33:40I'll give you an example
33:41we are listening
33:42the box
33:43then when he hears
33:45the sentence
33:47or the lament
33:48what does he do
33:49let's say a little
33:50impression
33:51rather than
33:52watch
33:53on the device
33:54we were looking at each other
33:55in the eyes
33:55one with the other
33:56and we did
33:57of gestures
33:58of wonder
33:59he says
33:59Oh mama
34:00what's happening
34:01like that
34:03we stayed
34:04everyone
34:04everyone
34:06bad
34:07bad
34:07strange
34:08Meaning what
34:08we were holding
34:10a way
34:12that evening
34:13we were feeling bad
34:14In short
34:14I can't explain how
34:15but we were feeling bad
34:16initially
34:17we thought
34:18that they were there
34:21torturing
34:22but
34:23between us
34:24we were doing
34:24but what can it be
34:26Meaning what
34:26you know
34:28he says
34:28the knife
34:30the pliers
34:31what are they doing
34:32it was understood
34:33it was understood
34:34only that she
34:35he said
34:35the blood
34:36I'm hurting myself
34:38Enough
34:39Enough
34:39Here you are
34:42At that time
34:42if
34:43No
34:44but this box
34:45with the voices of Paschili
34:46there is no more
34:47then now
34:48we make it heard
34:49to the other side
34:49with the voices of Paschili
34:50but if a man
34:51which deals with
34:52of these cases
34:53he feels sick
34:54that is, he
34:55that we thank
34:56for this interview
34:57he says
34:57we felt bad
34:58we were looking at each other
34:59but you can imagine
35:00what is it
35:01for a family member
35:02have
35:04feel
35:04this box
35:05Why
35:06Truly
35:07it's a stylicide
35:08it's a thing
35:09among other things, precisely
35:10that lasts
35:10for 40 years
35:11that is, a family member
35:12he can go crazy
35:13with all this
35:14which is all
35:15the opposite of everything
35:16why are there complaints
35:17on one side
35:17on the other side
35:18of the box
35:19there is a claim
35:20for liberation
35:21by Ali Akcha
35:22murderer
35:23what he did
35:24the attack
35:24to the Pope
35:25a story
35:26that stinks
35:27of misdirection
35:28this one too
35:30but
35:31there are also
35:32of the voices
35:32of men
35:33And
35:34what was thought
35:35it is possible
35:36that they are
35:36of people
35:37That
35:39they were present
35:40to a recording
35:41of a film
35:42of a cassette
35:43why this box
35:44then in the end
35:45it was said
35:46it's probably part of
35:47of a film
35:49porn
35:49but
35:50it's a cassette
35:51that anyway
35:52this one too
35:53it ended
35:54in the hands
35:54of the investigators
35:55and family members
35:56by Emanuele Orlandi
35:57Francesco Paolo Derre
36:00Peter
36:00in 1983
36:02when she feels
36:03speak
36:04for the first time
36:05of the box
36:05of Via della Dataria?
36:07Well
36:07I hear talking
36:08on the evening of July 17, 83
36:10they went to my father
36:11my uncle
36:12and accompanied them
36:14my cousin
36:14in a I was gone
36:16they listened
36:17this box
36:17and when my father
36:18he came home
36:19I remember
36:19this sentence
36:20what does he say?
36:21be my father
36:21that my uncle
36:23hate
36:23but it felt
36:24he felt terrible
36:25and they were all there
36:26those voices of men
36:27but what were they saying?
36:28he was talking to my uncle
36:30of this
36:30but what were they saying?
36:31with male voices
36:32he says though
36:33Certain
36:33that sentence
36:34when he says
36:34let me sleep
36:35it seems to me
36:36Emanuela herself
36:36that
36:37the same
36:42my uncle used to say
36:43that's the sentence
36:44that remained in my mind
36:45It is true
36:46Emanuela's uncle
36:47Mario Meneguzzi
36:48he declares it immediately
36:51It's two in the morning
36:52It's now July 18th
36:54when Mario Meneguzzi
36:55he is summoned
36:56from Commissioner Cavaliere
36:57here's what you put
36:59on record
36:59immediately after having
37:00listened to the cassette
37:01with regard to
37:03the female voice
37:04although in conditions
37:05not normal
37:06I can say
37:07with a good dose
37:08of safety
37:08what is it about
37:09of my niece
37:10Emanuela Orlandi
37:12Indeed
37:12in the sentence
37:13Enough
37:14let me sleep
37:15I think I recognize her
37:16at least 90%
37:22and this is the sentence
37:26in which the family members
37:27they recognize the voice
37:28and the way of speaking
37:30by Emanuela
37:30there are a couple of sentences
37:32complete in meaning
37:33one of these
37:35let me sleep
37:36that I assure you
37:37as soon as I heard it
37:38I have not had
37:39no doubt
37:40for me that's Emanuela
37:41that sentence
37:42it's Emanuela
37:43my father had
37:44this memory
37:45he says oh god
37:46that voice
37:46sure it looked like Emanuela to me
37:47and it had passed
37:49less than a month
37:50from the disappearance
37:51by Emanuela
37:51so the memory
37:52it means
37:52it was vivid
37:53imprinted
37:54right in memory
37:57it's the morning
37:58of July 18th
37:59and around 10
38:01in the offices
38:02of the mobile squad
38:03it's already ready
38:03a transcription
38:04whole wheat
38:05of the message
38:06engraved
38:07on magnetic tape
38:08from unknown individuals
38:09that they would have seized
38:11the minor
38:12Emanuela Orlandi
38:13in the meantime
38:14the tape passes
38:15in the hands of the SISDE
38:16the service
38:17civil secrecy
38:18who writes
38:19a note
38:19Reserved
38:20talking about
38:21a recording
38:22in which they feel
38:23repeated complaints
38:24of a young woman
38:26likely
38:27subjected to torture
38:28from listening
38:29of the registration
38:30it is clear that
38:31it was done
38:32while the girl
38:33was subjected
38:34to painful stimulations
38:36of variable intensity
38:37and progressively
38:38growing
38:39electric shocks
38:48the SISDE agent
38:50is in charge
38:50to analyze
38:51the box
38:51Speaking of which
38:52of female laments
38:53he writes
38:54I think
38:55whether it is a question
38:56of a recording
38:57authentic
38:58and not of
38:58clips
38:59mounted
38:59artfully
39:00I had
39:01Anyway
39:02the impression
39:02that such
39:03registration
39:04it was
39:04obtained
39:05with the help of
39:05of sounds
39:06and noises
39:07pre-registered
39:08on others
39:08ribbons
39:09that they are
39:09states
39:10resentful
39:11in the moment
39:11in which
39:11he was coming
39:12registered
39:13the violence
39:13from the
39:13Orlandi
39:18the noises
39:18underlying
39:19In short
39:19at first
39:20I listen
39:20are considered
39:21a kind
39:22of column
39:22sound
39:23that comes
39:23transmitted
39:24in the place
39:25in which
39:25it happens
39:25the violence
39:27very likely
39:28the voice
39:29he identifies himself
39:30with that
39:30already heard
39:31on a tape
39:32previous
39:33she
39:34listen carefully
39:35This
39:38registration
39:38yes do it to me
39:39feel good
39:40but
39:40the reference
39:41it's on the voice
39:42made to listen
39:43from the American
39:43to his uncle
39:53Why
39:54the voice
39:54made to listen
39:55to his uncle
39:55on the phone
39:56and the voice
39:57of the box
39:57of the street
39:58of the date
39:58they could be
39:59of the same
40:00person
40:00in the relationship
40:02of the SISDE
40:03let's read
40:03the two voices
40:04have in common
40:05a tone
40:06a little nasal
40:06species
40:07as far as
40:08regard
40:08the letter
40:09TO
40:09it's the same
40:10person
40:11Therefore
40:11and this one
40:12person
40:12she's the fifteen year old
40:13Vatican city
40:16in the recording
40:17of the violence
40:18there is not only
40:19the female voice
40:20there are also
40:21the male voices
40:22this is the first one
40:28this is the second one
40:33this is the third one
40:40a fourth and a fifth voice instead
40:42we hear them on the other side of the tape
40:45let's listen to it together
40:58the male voices
41:01in our possession
41:02these are the only ones
41:03a few fragments
41:04barely perceptible
41:05Antonio Asciore
41:07the Digos agent
41:08who takes the box
41:09from Lanza
41:09but he remembers it
41:10many more
41:11something could be
41:13lost
41:15many pieces
41:16beyond the male voices
41:17that were no longer there
41:20many
41:20Surely
41:21there were also cuts
41:24on the complaints
41:25why the complaints
41:26that they feel now
41:28they feel
41:29which are complaints
41:30but I'm not
41:31serious
41:31serious
41:32let's say
41:32to hear
41:34like those
41:34that they felt
41:35the first time
41:36that is, she
41:37who listened again
41:38lately
41:38this audio
41:39he thinks he has listened
41:41a part
41:42of what he felt
41:43Exactly
41:44Yes
41:44that is, at the time
41:45there was more
41:45in her opinion
41:46yes more
41:47moreover
41:48as well as minutes
41:49Why
41:50it's much shorter
41:52a longer audio
41:52and even more
41:54shocking
41:54somehow
41:55it is absolutely
41:56very shocking
41:57the one now
42:00yes they feel
42:01in complaints
42:02but it doesn't shock
42:03in the prosecutor's office
42:04in the prosecutor's office
42:05there are only
42:06the CD
42:07I went
42:08to search
42:08this audio cassette
42:09there is no trace
42:10there is none
42:11audio cassette
42:12in the prosecutor's office
42:13then there are
42:13lots of CDs
42:16of many
42:17spills
42:17and this audio
42:18two minutes
42:19it's on a CD
42:20like that other one
42:21eight minutes
42:22it's on a CD
42:23there are several people
42:24there is one
42:25even three minutes
42:26about
42:28none of these
42:29it's the audio cassette
42:30original
42:32we track down
42:33an audio cassette
42:34within
42:35of the file
42:35of the third trial
42:36for the attack
42:37to the Pope
42:37but as you see
42:39this one too
42:39it's a copy
42:40the first sensation
42:41that I had
42:42it's someone
42:42he manipulated
42:43that audio cassette
42:44and it can happen to me
42:45that there were
42:46of male voices
42:46which were recognizable
42:48the first thought
42:49that was it
42:53what we're talking about
42:54it's not the only tape
42:56yes because
42:57before the cassette
42:58on the street of the dataria
42:59would have been left
43:00another tape
43:01the contents of which
43:03it has never been disclosed
43:04it would have been done
43:06to disappear from someone
43:07the box
43:08which was taken
43:09in Lanza
43:10July 17th
43:12it wasn't
43:13the only cassette
43:14Why
43:15a few days before
43:17was
43:19sent
43:20a cassette
43:21at the colonnade
43:22of St. Peter
43:23it was given
43:23always Lanza
43:25he communicated
43:26that there was a box
43:27Perhaps
43:28those who sent it
43:30believing
43:32that it wasn't
43:32never arrived
43:33at destination
43:34they sent it
43:35a second
43:36let's take a step back
43:37It's July 14th
43:39three days before
43:40of the discovery
43:41on the steps
43:42of the Quirinal
43:42the alleged kidnappers
43:44they say they left
43:45a package
43:46under the colonnade
43:47of St. Peter
43:48but this tape
43:50it was never released
43:51Why?
43:53he explains it
43:53the American
43:54to the journalist
43:54of the Ansa
43:55when July 17th
43:56call to report
43:58the audio cassette
43:58on the street of the dataria
44:00the ribbon
44:01that we leave
44:01in St. Peter's Square
44:02he was taken
44:03by two officials
44:04of the Vatican
44:04and then
44:05the content
44:05it wasn't
44:06made known
44:07the box
44:08left below
44:09the colonnade
44:10it was really
44:11taken by officials
44:12Vatican?
44:13and in the archives
44:14of the city
44:14of the Vatican
44:15could be
44:16preserved
44:16still today?
44:20that one there
44:21it has never been
44:21remained public
44:22Meaning what
44:23the Vatican
44:24he never said
44:25Yes
44:25we also have
44:26we a box
44:29it's another mystery
44:31This
44:31because after all
44:32a cut box
44:33Meaning what
44:33among other things
44:34the cassettes were
44:35those of the past
44:35now it's there
44:36the ribbon
44:37registered
44:38on CD
44:38and a cassette
44:39That
44:40why not keep
44:40the original?
44:42why not keep
44:42the original?
44:43who saw it
44:43the box
44:44we have to do
44:45and then you have to understand
44:46even if this box
44:47it's among the things
44:47dusty
44:48that Didi
44:49Vatican promoter
44:50he said
44:50we found
44:51the one in Italy
44:52I say
44:52the one in Italy
44:54we went
44:55really
44:56in Maggiulians
44:56she went to look for
44:58in the files
44:59on the attack on the Pope
45:00because we thought
45:01maybe to stay there
45:02Peter searched everywhere
45:03we didn't succeed
45:04to see
45:05At that time
45:06Mancini
45:07he told us before
45:08one thing about
45:10Marcello Neroni
45:11which among other things
45:11if you want to contact us
45:12and say
45:14and say
45:15and talk to us
45:17but also the son
45:17in short without that
45:18throw us the microphone
45:19in the head
45:20he told us
45:21that De Pedis
45:22he didn't want him to know
45:24how much money
45:26he had asked
45:27for extortion
45:27we should
45:28be able
45:29to show you
45:30that actually
45:31what he says
45:32Mancini
45:33that's right
45:33here it is
45:35it's the operation
45:37Colosseum
45:37and De Pedis
45:39he says
45:39to this gentleman
45:40to which they have
45:42extorted
45:43In short
45:43evidently
45:43the money
45:44not to report
45:44to Neroni
45:45De Pedis
45:46he called him Cicero
45:47the sum
45:48of the lace
45:49agreed
45:51he says
45:52on the occasion
45:53he invited me
45:53not to say
45:54Nobody
45:54and not even
45:55that to Neroni
45:55who defended
45:56a Cicero
45:57for what amount
45:58the soldier
45:59so it means
46:01who didn't trust
46:02we didn't talk
46:03it was the fabric softener
46:04In short
46:05what you were saying
46:06softened
46:07who didn't want to
46:08because it was big
46:09Neroni
46:10he didn't know how to fight
46:12but I
46:12I'll tell you something
46:13how old
46:15they have passed
46:15from the fact
46:17of the operation
46:19Colosseum
46:20what was mine
46:21left an impression
46:22these are two episodes
46:23he who speaks
46:24more with the guards
46:25who with his companions
46:26is that Renatino
46:27so precise
46:29he says to this
46:30he doesn't let anyone know anything about it
46:31Why?
46:33At that time
46:33we invited
46:35Antonio Mancini
46:35because after all
46:37there in the band
46:38I say it
46:39because there is a relative
46:40he tells me
46:41he killed
46:41a relative of mine
46:42why did you invite him
46:43I say it
46:43why us
46:44Obviously
46:45we are looking for
46:46to take a path
46:47which is also
46:47very complicated
46:48I don't know the relative
46:49that you killed
46:50who is it who called us?
46:51they warned me
46:53from the editorial staff
46:54but
46:55that is for us
46:56you are anyway
46:56a historical memory
46:57of what you were
46:59No?
46:59And that you rightly
47:00you said
47:00then they make movies about it
47:01that we seemed
47:02that we were who knows what
47:03we were scoundrels
47:05what drug addicts
47:06that we are here too
47:06ate the money
47:07of drugs
47:08and that we have killed
47:09the boys
47:10why we delivered it to him
47:11No?
47:11the drug
47:12so in short
47:13this is important
47:14but then one thing
47:15because the agent
47:16then think
47:16that the things I do
47:17I do it
47:18for the money
47:19apart from you
47:20you know it
47:21when I ask for something
47:24wire transfer
47:25to the association
47:26Anfas Disability
47:28I don't know
47:29I
47:29because you work
47:30with disabilities
47:30you understood how
47:31these are important things
47:32what do you say this?
47:33because now he heard
47:34flash
47:3548 thousand euros
47:36okay, let's not expand now
47:37so much for those of us who saw it
47:39we don't pay anyone
47:40here we have to pay
47:41the red microphone
47:42but they think
47:42that we too
47:43for many years
47:45for many years
47:46they told us
47:47that's for sure
47:48we were carrying on the conversation
47:49by Emanuela
47:50why we took
47:51a lot of money
47:52this seems to me
47:53Truly
47:54we went on shows
47:56I want it to be said
47:57this thing
47:58because after
47:58I have
47:59Understood
48:00we Antonio Mancini
48:01we offered him
48:03the canteen
48:04Today I confess
48:05who sent me
48:06a photograph
48:07I wrote
48:0841
48:09why we sent it
48:10at the canteen
48:11this was
48:11his lunch
48:12but
48:12I would like to give
48:13the last word
48:14to Natalina
48:15Why
48:15well it was hard
48:17these days
48:18no Natalina
48:18let's say
48:19we then have
48:20we had raised our hand
48:21but we're still here
48:22because we are transparent
48:24but it was hard
48:24I usually don't let myself go
48:25never go
48:26you notice it
48:27look, we
48:27we played
48:28I am a veteran
48:30you can attack each other
48:31that one for me
48:32it was an opportunity
48:32ninth
48:33but it was hard
48:35No?
48:35yes it was hard
48:36because I was sorry
48:37a lot for Peter
48:38first thing
48:38because he really
48:39he's losing us
48:41almost health
48:41to stay
48:42he was so happy
48:44after he left
48:45from the interview
48:47with the promoters of justice
48:50in the Vatican
48:52because finally
48:53he had found
48:54this
48:55then unfortunately
48:57he committed
48:59this little one
49:00slip
49:02where are they
49:03all attached
49:05as if it were
49:06the worst criminal
49:07on the square
49:08of Rome
49:10and he had
49:11committed the thing
49:13it's not fair
49:14it's not fair
49:15Why
49:16as we say
49:17when we are
49:18in the association
49:19the familiar
49:20can say
49:20anything
49:21the familiar
49:23can say
49:23anything
49:24and it must be
49:25always justified
49:26they are the others
49:27that they have to find
49:27the solution
49:28to things
49:29At that time
49:30Natarina
49:30I thank you
49:31because after all
49:32I know
49:32it's a tough time
49:33for you
49:35really thank you
49:36why were you
49:37with us
49:37Antonio thank you
49:38to you
49:38we won't give you a penny
49:39you know it
49:40I know
49:41and then
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