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00:00So, this is an important page now and we're getting help from Antonio Mancini.
00:07Good evening Antonio Mancini.
00:08Good evening, good evening Federica.
00:10Our viewers know you, however, for those who might see you for the first time.
00:15Tell me if I speak loud enough because I'm deaf from being shot I can tell.
00:22Because after all, I have a former killer next to me, I don't know if I should stay calm or not.
00:29You're a defender even now.
00:32He then paid with years in prison, he is a former member of the Magliana gang.
00:40Ex because then the Magliana gang self-destructed, it no longer exists.
00:45And agree to talk to us.
00:47It's no longer the way we composed it.
00:50First with these batteries.
00:53Carminati etc. have modified it.
00:55They changed it, continued it, and then got arrested.
00:58Those who continue due to wear and tear, well, it's not that they have really gone, let's say.
01:02Destroyed.
01:03It's not destroyed.
01:04Not the mentality, not the way of reacting.
01:08Look, while you work, let's say, with the handicapped, there are those who still work, so to speak.
01:13going to commit robberies.
01:15Now what happens?
01:17Why did we call Antonio Mancini?
01:20Antonio Mancini knows the Magliana gang.
01:23In Rome it was said that not a leaf moves that the Magliana gang doesn't want.
01:29He was also called when Moro was kidnapped.
01:33In short, for everyone, when something happened, the so-called mysteries called you because
01:39you controlled the territory.
01:42So what I wanted to do with you is ask you a few things, for example about Renatino.
01:47De Pedis, did you know De Pedis?
01:49De Pedis's acquaintances began in the mid-1970s.
01:55Did you work together?
01:56When we also worked together, when we were young robbers and we hung out
02:01Night Club and true companion.
02:02So you confirm that he's a boss, that he's a...
02:05Yes, the character of the gang, of Riverlo, of the Magliana gang.
02:08For example, he was shooting, he was shooting and...
02:11Well, sometimes he didn't shoot because he was riding a motorbike.
02:15I understand.
02:16But I would shoot it for him.
02:17No, because I have often been sued because I have been told, you say it is a
02:23criminal, but he is not a criminal because he did not have time to go through the trials because
02:27He was killed first, that's worth saying.
02:30But let's go with Francesco Paolo del Re to some declarations that are declarations
02:35very strong, because there is a father who tells, his name is Sarnataro, that you knew
02:42in prison.
02:43The father is more or less my age.
02:45And the father tells what the son told.
02:49It's a very strong statement that is being taken up, that they were questioned by the police
02:58and we want you to hear it because it always brings us back there.
03:03We started from the phone call that arrived in the editorial office when we reopened
03:07the case of Emanuele Orlandi and takes us back to the Magliana gang.
03:22June 23, 1983, approximately 7:00 PM.
03:27What happens to Emanuele Orlandi when he leaves music school?
03:33Was it a sudden kidnapping or was it planned for a long time?
03:38The kidnapping was planned and was carried out on the very last day of school.
03:43by Emanuela.
03:44Here is the testimony of a friend of the girl.
03:47A few days before the disappearance, he told investigators, we were followed by two
03:52young people while we were going to a video game store.
03:57It was me, Emanuela and some other friends.
04:01A quiet morning walk we sometimes took.
04:06We turned around but it was a feeling shared by everyone.
04:11In the sense that we turned around and found two young people in front of us
04:16who were watching us from a safe distance.
04:18So much so that even Emanuela turned around and said
04:20but who knows what they wanted.
04:23What intrigued us was that the gaze was completely focused on us.
04:28So much so that I did to Emanuela.
04:30Emanuela, I think they're coming after you.
04:33At the time, Emanuela's friend drew an identikit of the two young men who were following them.
04:39There he is.
04:40It was only in 2008 that he was shown some photographs of various people.
04:45which revolved around the Magliana gang.
04:48And Emanuela's friend recognizes Marco Sarnataro in one of these photos.
04:53Who is Marco Sarnataro?
04:55And who ordered him to follow Emanuela Orlandi?
04:58Is the girl's friend confused after so many years?
05:02No, because his story is confirmed by none other than Marco Sarnataro's father.
05:11Marco Sarnataro's father is called Salvatore.
05:14He has a fruit stand on Viale Marconi.
05:17The son is dead and that's why the investigators are turning to him.
05:22And here is the shocking revelation.
05:25Salvatore Sarnataro was questioned by the prosecutor's office three times in 2008.
05:31I know nothing directly about the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi,
05:35but I feel a moral obligation to confirm my son's involvement in that affair.
05:40In particular, a few years ago my son told me that he had followed Emanuela Orlandi
05:45for a few days together with his accomplices.
05:49The first time Salvatore Sarnataro is interviewed by the police, he is scared.
05:54He says he wants to think before adding anything else because these are very serious matters.
05:59and says he is afraid of exposing himself to real danger.
06:04A few days later Marco Sarnataro's father was heard again
06:08and this time he tells everything he learned from his son.
06:12He told me that for several days both he and Ciletto and Gigetto
06:17they followed Emanuela Orlandi through the streets of Rome
06:20and this on the orders of Renato De Pedis, whom they called the president.
06:25A father who accuses his son.
06:27Salvatore Sarnataro's testimony therefore confirms point by point
06:32Emanuela's friend's recollection of stalking the girl.
06:36But let's continue with the story of Marco Sarnataro's father.
06:40The day Emanuela Orlandi disappeared.
06:43What's going on?
06:45My son told me that after stalking her for a few days
06:49they received orders from De Pedis to collect her.
06:52Marco told me that they had made her get into a BMW sedan in Piazza Risorgimento
06:57at a bus stop.
06:59The girl got into the car without any problems and without any kind of violence.
07:03We are in Rome, in Piazza Risorgimento.
07:04Risorgimento a few steps from the walls of the Vatican City State.
07:10Here you see behind me are the Vatican palaces, the dome of St. Peter's, the Vatican museums.
07:16It is right here in this square that according to Marco Sarnataro's story
07:20Emanuela Orlandi's kidnapping is said to have occurred.
07:24The order would have come directly from Enrico De Pedis.
07:28This square is important because it was always here, a few days before Emanuela's disappearance
07:34the girl was allegedly followed by two people
07:39one of which was recognized as Marco Sarnataro himself.
07:43Here are the boys who followed Emanuela together with a group of friends
07:48from Porta Sant'Anna which is in that direction, along the route that passes through this square
07:54until you reach Via Leggino Cesare which is on that side.
08:00Let's go back to Salvatore Sarnataro's story.
08:03According to the son, who was in Piazza Risorgimento at the time of Emanuela's kidnapping?
08:08There was certainly Marco and one between Giggetto and Ciletto
08:12but it could have been all three because Marco used the expression
08:16we got it.
08:18Then they took her to the Eur lake where Sergio was waiting for them
08:21who was De Pedis's driver and right-hand man.
08:25According to Marco's story, both the girl and the car
08:28were taken over by Sergio.
08:30And so it is here at the Eur lake that according to the story that Marco Sarnataro
08:34ago her father Salvatore would have been taken to Emanuela Orlandi.
08:38This is where the delivery of both the girl and the car would have taken place.
08:42to Sergio, Sergio Virtù, Enrico De Pedis' driver
08:46which Sabrina Minardi also talks about.
08:48Sergio Virtù is under investigation by the Rome prosecutor's office.
08:51and when he is heard he denies any responsibility
08:54and denies any involvement in the affair to Orlandi.
08:57But there is a wiretap
08:59in which he talks to the woman he was seeing at the time
09:02who is called Maria
09:03and in which Orlandi is spoken of
09:06because the woman asks him for information about the matter
09:09since he heard about Orlandi in the newspapers and on television.
09:13Sergio says they've been bothering him with this story for 20 years.
09:17he says he had some wild friendships in his youth
09:22he says what I did I only did it for the money
09:26and I'm not sorry.
09:27The investigation against Sergio was closed in 2015
09:31the other suspects were also archived
09:33but I did it for the money, he had said
09:36and he wouldn't be the only one
09:37Marco Sarnataro also receives compensation for what he did
09:41the father tells it
09:42For this kindness, my son received a Suzuki 1100 motorbike as a gift.
09:48A Suzuki motorcycle in exchange for a girl, Emanuela Orlandi
09:53But who are the others we're talking about?
09:55Ciletto and Gigetto
09:56They are two members of the Magliana gang
10:00under the authority of Giorgio Paradisi
10:02investigated and then archived for the Orlandi kidnapping
10:05Did Ciletto and Gigetto work for Paradisi?
10:08For the Paradisi, yes
10:10Did your son also work for Paradisi?
10:12Yes, exactly.
10:13So can we define them?
10:16Horses
10:17Horses, says Sarnataro, that is, runners
10:20people who follow orders
10:22But where do the orders come from?
10:25There is a precise hierarchical scale in the criminal organization
10:29Consider that Renatino, Giorgio and Ciletto
10:33the three degrees
10:34Renato was the president
10:35consider that Giorgio could have been one of the right-hand men
10:38and under Giorgio there was Ciletto
10:41and then in turn there was Gigetto and Marco
10:44But why would Emanuela have had to get into her kidnappers' BMW?
10:49without screaming and without being taken away by force?
10:52We have to go back to what she herself told her sister on the phone the day she disappeared
10:58Before entering the school a man stopped her.
11:02who had offered him a well-paying job for Avon
11:06and this man has never been identified
11:09It will just be a coincidence
11:11but precisely for the cosmetics company
11:13someone also worked near Ciletto
11:16Sarnataro always says it
11:18Ciletto's sister-in-law worked with Avon at the time
11:22Ciletto's sister-in-law was a hairdresser
11:25and promoted these products
11:26also in Viale Marconi and at the bar on Viale Marconi
11:29And here is Ciletto in Piazzale Clodio
11:31He was there for questioning
11:33I'm someone who saw it, can I ask a question?
11:35I have nothing to do with it, he tells us
11:36Did they question him about the kidnapping of Emanuele Orlandi?
11:38No
11:38Are you Ciletto?
11:39No
11:40They contested the seizure against me
11:43The kidnapping, the alleged murder of Stalinardi
11:49But they didn't ask me any questions about the kidnapping.
11:52They just challenged me
11:55I have never seen this girl in my life.
11:59Nothing with nothing
12:00She says, did you recognize him?
12:02Couldn't he have recognized him?
12:03I don't know, they took a picture of him
12:04Also because I have been in the newspapers a thousand times
12:07It's not that I came out in the paper yesterday
12:09Unfortunately I was accused
12:11For yesterday I came out in the newspaper
12:13With the writing that Ciletto put on me
12:17She's not going to say that at all.
12:20I have nothing to do with it
12:22I don't know if the Magliana gang has anything to do with it.
12:24But as my deduction
12:26I think they would have used other people
12:30Which unfortunately one says
12:31How do you do it?
12:32I followed the story
12:33I made my own
12:35Like I think everyone
12:36My opinion
12:37And as a judgment I think that
12:39There was no reason
12:41At that time
12:42She is a cardinal
12:44Or anyone
12:45She would have put herself in the hands
12:47Of a criminal
12:49Let's say
12:49Of a crooked man
12:52That's how his life had turned out.
12:55In the hands of the Tepetis
12:56I don't think it is
12:57A normal thing
12:59What one does
13:00So she to the magistrate
13:01He said he doesn't know anything
13:03I don't know anything
13:03But it's the truth
13:04I feel sorry for the family
13:06I don't know anything
13:07I don't really know anything
13:09If I could have helped him
13:10I would help him
13:11But I didn't even need it.
13:12They sent for me
13:13Officially from the judgment
13:14I would have gone to talk to him
13:16But as with them
13:16I'm willing to go and talk
13:17Even if he has a family
13:18I have nothing to do with it
13:22Then they were investigated
13:24And they were archived
13:25It makes an impression
13:26This statement of Saint Nataro
13:28No
13:28Because he is a father
13:30Who says what the son said
13:32Somehow
13:33Impressive
13:34Impressive
13:34Why a father
13:35Why should it be muddied?
13:37His own son
13:38Are you kidding?
13:38No but then
13:39As far as I'm concerned
13:41I think I was
13:42One of the first
13:43If not the first to speak
13:44That the gray wolves
13:46They had nothing to do with it
13:47That was a question
13:48Of money
13:48Reband
13:49Etc
13:50De Petis
13:50So this is confirming
13:53This thing
13:53Attacking his son
13:55Attacking his son
13:56There would be no reason for it
13:57What are you joking?
13:58No
13:58That he was dead
14:00During that period
14:01Precisely
14:01Doubly
14:02Who were in prison together
14:04And the son
14:04He makes this confession to her
14:06You among other things
14:07You met him
14:07The father in prison
14:09You too
14:10At that time
14:11Because you made yourself
14:12This idea
14:13Which is one of the blackmails
14:15To the Pope
14:17For the fact
14:17That there had been
14:18Some money
14:19That not
14:19That they had been
14:20Went to show solidarity
14:22There were other countries
14:22Etc
14:23And that they didn't come back
14:24What was the money?
14:25Yours too
14:26Some robberies
14:28Let's say money
14:29Not exactly clean
14:30That disappear
14:32Somehow
14:32The mafia's money
14:33You say they were going
14:35In this bank
14:36That he had no control
14:38I don't know if
14:39I'll broaden the discussion.
14:42But just connect
14:43Four episodes
14:45Rose window
14:46Who shot him in Rosone?
14:49Danilo Abbruciati?
14:51The Ambrosian bank
14:52We are talking
14:52Rose window of the Ambrosian bench
14:54Precisely
14:54No no but
14:55You say
14:55The attack on the Pope
14:57Photographs of the Pope
14:58The Calvi murder
15:00And the kidnapping
15:00Of a Vatican town
15:02And of course
15:03Let's say
15:04It seems like fantasy politics
15:05It seems like a movie
15:06It seems, in short,
15:07But
15:07That
15:08But it was not understood
15:09Why Emanuele Orlandi
15:10She was taken
15:12There is
15:13That someone
15:15He said
15:15To De Pedis
15:18Let's take this girl
15:20The course
15:21To your driver
15:22Meaning what
15:23You these things
15:24You did them
15:24At the time
15:25You of the band
15:26From Magliana?
15:27No
15:27Meaning what
15:28If it was a question
15:29Of money
15:31It could have been
15:32Also do
15:33Meaning what
15:34It must be
15:34All tied together
15:35To the money
15:35That is, if one comes
15:36Take that girl
15:37For a reason of his own
15:38To do a favor
15:40Certain
15:41There are interests
15:41I to do it
15:42To one
15:42Just in case
15:43Who wanted to try
15:44With this girl
15:45No
15:45No
15:46But what?
15:46She
15:47In the sense
15:49Having orgies
15:51With the girl
15:52Hand
15:53But figure
15:54So you
15:54You motivate yourselves
15:55If there was
15:56No
15:56Because we were
15:57Of the pure
15:58Because we knew
15:59That certain things
16:00They couldn't be done
16:02At that time
16:02You
16:03I exclude this.
16:04In a way
16:05More absolute
16:05So the problem
16:06It was the money
16:07Money and that's it
16:08At that time
16:08You were part of
16:09Of the band
16:10Of the Magliana
16:10You saw
16:11There is this exponent
16:12What I say
16:13You're a little girl
16:14He says no
16:15Then instead
16:15It was a ciletto
16:16But it makes perfect sense
16:17What he says
16:18He says but why
16:19Is there anyone?
16:20What had to be put
16:21In our hands
16:22No
16:23In the hands
16:23By De Pedis
16:24That he is a criminal
16:26He then says
16:26No one could have asked
16:28A favor
16:29To someone
16:30Of the band
16:31Of the Magliana
16:31Instead you move
16:33The axis and you say
16:34No it's the band
16:34Of the Magliana
16:35What he had
16:35Of interests
16:37Certain
16:38That side
16:40Of the band
16:40Of the Magliana
16:41That is the band
16:43Of the Magliana
16:43It's easy here
16:44Magliana Band
16:45Testaccio
16:46Meaning what
16:47The group
16:49By De Pedis
16:49He had those interests
16:52Not the group
16:53Magliana
16:54I
16:55Abbatino
16:56Tuscan
16:57And so on
16:58The group
16:59By De Pedis
16:59Why De Pedis
17:00You say it was
17:01However close
17:02At the Vatican
17:03But your money
17:07They went to that bank
17:08In the bank
17:09Of York
17:09That is, the money
17:10Some robberies
17:11Antonio
17:11This money
17:12They had been asked
17:15To give them
17:17At the bank
17:17Ambrosian
17:18By Calvi
17:18Which in turn
17:19He turned them around
17:20At the Vatican
17:21In that environment
17:23It is thought
17:23That everything
17:24It ends
17:25TO
17:26A little package
17:27On the shoulder
17:28No
17:28Meaning what
17:29Those
17:30They don't understand
17:31I'm a criminal
17:32Risk
17:32Of being killed
17:35I'll give you the money
17:36And you never give me back
17:37No
17:37You give them back to me
17:38So
17:38You have to give it back to him
17:40At that time
17:41Let's say
17:42The question
17:43Then Antonio Mancini
17:44He was honest
17:45He said I
17:45It's not that I know anything
17:46By Manuela Orlandi
17:48I wasn't told anything
17:49I can tell you
17:50What was
17:51Our
17:52World
17:53At that time
17:53What he does
17:54Quite an impression
17:55AND
17:56This report
17:57Between Don Vergari
17:58Who is the rector?
18:00Of the Basilica
18:00Of Saint Polinare
18:02From there it disappears
18:02Emanuela Orlandi
18:03Why had he done it?
18:04The last lesson
18:05Of the year
18:06Of flute
18:06About music
18:07At school
18:08Annexed
18:08At the Basilica
18:09The report
18:09Between Don Vergari
18:10And De Pedis
18:12What happens
18:12That he feels
18:14With his wife
18:14By De Pedis
18:15De Pedis
18:15He was buried
18:16In the Basilica
18:17Of Saint Polinare
18:17And they talk about dates
18:19Why the dates
18:20They are important
18:21So the wife
18:21By De Pedis
18:22He tells Don Vergari
18:24But look, you
18:24You met him after
18:26Who was kidnapped
18:28Emanuele Orlandi
18:29Tell it
18:30Why he has to be
18:31Questioned
18:32He was investigated
18:33And anyway there are
18:34These interceptions
18:35Interesting
18:36Between Don Vergari
18:37And the wife
18:38By De Pedis
18:40Don Vergari
18:42She has clear proof
18:43My husband
18:45He met him
18:45In '86
18:47In '86?
18:48In 85-86
18:50In short
18:50Not in '83
18:52She knew him
18:53After it all happened
18:55I remember it perfectly
18:57Of a letter
18:58By Renatino from prison
18:59What he told me
19:00Of having known
19:01Don Piero
19:02To Regina Celi
19:03It was '86
19:04But he introduced us
19:05In prison
19:06No
19:07We met
19:08After his release from prison
19:10Oh yes
19:11Instead the parents
19:13I remember
19:14When he was
19:15Still inside
19:16Because so many times
19:17He sent him to ask
19:18If he needed it
19:19About something
19:20Then I passed by
19:21From prison
19:22I went down to the restaurant
19:23I remember
19:24I met
19:25With his father
19:26No
19:26This is after
19:28No Don Piero
19:29That's how things are
19:31When I met
19:32Enrico there
19:33That we met
19:34Almost every Saturday
19:36Some time
19:37Every now and again
19:38Enrico asked me
19:39To tell the parents
19:40Something
19:41To the brothers
19:42There
19:43So I
19:44When I went out
19:44From prison
19:45Queen Celi
19:46I was passing by the restaurant
19:48I was telling him
19:49What I had to say
19:50And I continued
19:51The road
19:52This in my opinion
19:53It's better not to say it
19:54Not at all
19:57Why then De Pedis' wife
19:59He says look don't say it
20:00That you carried
20:01The messages
20:03Between De Pedis
20:03Who is in prison
20:04And his family
20:05And his family
20:06That are outside
20:06It looks like what you do
20:08No
20:08Yes back and forth
20:10It's not nice
20:11For Don Vergari
20:12But this happened
20:15In short
20:15Because he says so
20:16There is indeed
20:17He says so
20:18He says no
20:18I brought the press releases
20:20At that time
20:20This is about me
20:22I have to make a correction
20:23What happened
20:24Then I don't know if he wants to call
20:25Filomena
20:26Claps
20:27We had heard
20:28Gildo Claps
20:29Last week
20:31We aired
20:32An interception
20:33Always between Don Vergari
20:35But with
20:35Monsignor Appignonesi
20:38Saying
20:39The then
20:39Bishop of Potenza
20:41He writes to us
20:42The current Bishop of Potenza
20:44Through your legal office
20:45Asking to specify
20:48That the interception
20:49From 2012
20:50When Appignonesi
20:52He is no longer Bishop of Potenza
20:53But it was canonical
20:54Of the patriarchal
20:56Vatican Basilica
20:57On that date
20:59The Bishop was
21:00Monsignor Superbo
21:01At that time
21:02According to the Bishop
21:03Ligorio
21:03What is he writing to us?
21:04What makes us do
21:05This rectification
21:07These omissions
21:08They allowed
21:09To trace
21:10A non-existent connection
21:11Between the disappearance
21:12By Emanuela
21:13And the murder
21:14By Elisa Claps
21:16Now
21:17We specify
21:18That
21:18Monsignor Appignonesi
21:20He was no longer Bishop of Potenza
21:22Let us remember
21:23That the same
21:23In 1993
21:24When it disappears
21:25Elisa Claps
21:27But
21:27He was a Bishop
21:28Of Power
21:30With sarcasm
21:31As he says,
21:32Monsignor Ligorio
21:33I simply said
21:34Who had called
21:36Appignanesi
21:37By competence
21:38In the sense
21:39That had disappeared
21:40There too
21:41A girl
21:42No
21:42And so on
21:43I was being sarcastic
21:45Didn't like it
21:46And so
21:46I apologize
21:47Then in front
21:48No
21:49In short
21:50A Bishop
21:51I absolutely do.
21:52I apologize
21:53The rectification
21:53So Appignanesi
21:55When it is intercepted
21:57With Don Vergari
21:58It has nothing to do with it
22:00With Power
22:02But it was Potenza
22:03When she disappeared
22:04Elisa Clapsa
22:05At that time
22:06What's going on?
22:07That the Vatican
22:08An internal investigation is opened
22:10De Pedis
22:12He is tied up
22:13At the Vatican
22:14Emanuele Orlandi
22:15She is a Vatican citizen
22:16And the author
22:18The rector
22:19Of the Basilica
22:19Of Saint Polinare
22:21This Don Vergari
22:22He is tied up
22:23To De Pedis
22:24And then there is also
22:24Marcinkus
22:25In all of this
22:26What is the boss?
22:27Of the IOR
22:29Chatted
22:29And about him too
22:31Dad speaks
22:32From Sarnataro
22:33By Marco Sarnataro
22:34Always Francesco Paolo Der Re
22:47The Vatican
22:48In this story
22:49How does he get in?
22:50Here's what it says
22:51Salvatore Sarnataro
22:53I have never had
22:54No personal relationship
22:56With environments
22:56O people of the Vatican
22:58I have never known any
22:59Monsignors
23:00Or Cardinal Marcinkus
23:01However I remember
23:02A detail
23:03Which was reported to me
23:04From my friend
23:04Giorgio Paradisi
23:05These once
23:07He told me about Marcinkus
23:08Telling me he was a priest
23:09Who liked little girls
23:11I remember exactly
23:12Who used the word
23:13Little girls
23:18But to connect
23:20The Vatican
23:20And the disappearance
23:21By Emanuela Orlandi
23:22There are more elements
23:24First of all
23:25The girl
23:26She is a citizen
23:27Of the Vatican State
23:28Since in there
23:29He lives with us
23:30To the family
23:31And then there is
23:32Enrico De Pedis
23:33Renatino
23:34The president said
23:35Rome in the heart of the city
23:36He was killed
23:37A man considered
23:38The boss
23:38Of the so-called
23:39Magliana Band
23:40Killed in an ambush
23:42On Pellegrino Street
23:43February 2nd
23:441990
23:45For him
23:46It is spent
23:47Don Vergari
23:49Your Most Reverend Eminence
23:50By desire
23:51By family wish
23:52De Pedis
23:52I dare to ask
23:53To this vicariate
23:55From Rome
23:55The clearance
23:57Because their relative
23:58Enrico De Pedis
23:59May he be buried
24:00In one of the mortuaries
24:02Site in the underground
24:04Of the basilica
24:05Of Saint Pollinare
24:06Monsignor Vergari
24:08He turns to the cardinal
24:09Ugo Poletti
24:10Vicar General
24:11Of His Holiness
24:12Cardinal Poletti
24:14It's the person
24:15What he tells us about
24:16In 2005
24:16The anonymous
24:17Who contacts
24:18Our answering machine
24:21Regarding the fact
24:22By Emanuele Orlandi
24:23To find
24:24The solution to the case
24:25Go and see
24:25Which is buried
24:26In the grippa
24:26Of the basilica
24:27Of Saint Pollinare
24:28And of the favor
24:29What a Renatino
24:30He made Cardinal Poletti
24:31At the time
24:33What is the favor?
24:34What the anonymous person is talking about
24:35What role does Poletti have?
24:37In this story
24:38We don't know
24:39But for Monsignor Vergari
24:41The boss Enrico De Pedis
24:43He is a benefactor
24:45Here's what he writes
24:46It is certified
24:48That the lord
24:49Enrico De Pedis
24:49It was a great
24:50Benefactor
24:51Of the poor
24:52Who frequent
24:53The basilica
24:53And it helped
24:55Concretely
24:56To many initiatives
24:57Of good
24:57Which have been
24:58Sponsored
24:59In recent times
25:00Be of character
25:02Religious
25:03How social
25:03He gave details
25:05Contributions
25:06To help young people
25:07Taking an interest
25:08In particular
25:09For their training
25:11Christian
25:11And human
25:12Cardinal Poletti
25:14Reply to Vergari
25:15March 10th
25:16It is declared
25:17That aside
25:18Of the vicariate
25:19No objection
25:20At the burial
25:21In the basilica
25:21He says
25:22The authorization
25:23It is then granted
25:25And the boss
25:25Of the Magliana
25:26From that moment on
25:27Rest in the basilica
25:28Of Saint Pollinare
25:29Arousing
25:30A great indignation
25:31When we take out
25:32The news
25:33The burial
25:35Privileged
25:35Within
25:36Of the church
25:37It is not, however
25:38The only favor
25:39That Monsignor Vergari
25:40He asks for the family
25:41De Pedis
25:41Renatino
25:42He's still alive
25:43When October 6th
25:441989
25:46Vergari writes
25:47To the Prime Minister
25:49Giulio Andreotti
25:50To intercede
25:51In favor of the brother
25:52Marco De Pedis
25:53Who has a restaurant
25:55To leave behind
25:55The police
25:57He had done a check-up
25:58And he had detected
25:59That Marco De Pedis
26:00He had two workers
26:01Two Polish friends
26:03By Vergari
26:03That they had not been
26:05Put in order
26:06Vergari asks
26:07To Andreotti
26:08To have it erased
26:09The minutes
26:09Honorable
26:11I'm sending you a copy
26:12About the documentation
26:13Relating to the case
26:14About which I wrote to her
26:15Mr. De Pedis
26:17Good man
26:18To help me
26:19He welcomed
26:19The two Poles
26:20For the month of August
26:21In his restaurant
26:23On the evening of August 18th
26:25They intervened
26:26In the restaurant
26:27For a check-up
26:28Some police officers
26:29Drawing up a report
26:31Marco De Pedis
26:32The owner of the place
26:34He will have problems
26:35Because of this
26:36The practice
26:37It is at
26:37The police station
26:38From Trastevere
26:39On the manager's table
26:41It doesn't seem right to me
26:42To rage
26:43And to have
26:43Some sorrows
26:44To Marco De Pedis
26:46And here's what
26:47Andreotti responds
26:48October 9th
26:501989
26:50I assure you
26:52That I will take care of it
26:54Within the limits
26:54Of the possible
26:55The years go by
26:57Many
26:58It's December 9, 2005
27:00And here it is
27:02Another exchange
27:03Between the monsignor
27:04And Giulio Andreotti
27:05Still regarding
27:06Enrico De Pedis
27:07This time
27:08Afterwards
27:09To the clamor
27:09Media
27:10Aroused
27:11From the burial
27:11In Santa Polinare
27:12After the famous
27:13Phone call
27:14To those who have seen it
27:15Vergari writes like this
27:16After Andreotti
27:17He had looked for it
27:18Without finding it
27:48Most Illustrious
27:49That calms
27:50May it calm the curious
27:51I don't know if it was
27:53The case of putting
27:54On the internet
27:54This short communication
27:56And where
27:57Who could do it?
27:59Vergari then
28:00Write a note
28:02On his relationship
28:03With De Pedis
28:03Advised
28:04From his superiors
28:05And then send
28:06This note
28:06For information
28:07To Andreotti
28:08Asking for advice
28:10On one of his
28:10Possible disclosure
28:12He says he doesn't have
28:14More to add
28:15Compared to that
28:16What he wrote
28:17It's all there
28:18For him
28:18Starting
28:19From knowledge
28:20With Renatino
28:21Done
28:22When was it
28:23Priest
28:24Confessor
28:24In prison
28:25In the 70s
28:26Among the most beautiful
28:28Experiences
28:29Of my life
28:29Priestly
28:30In Rome
28:31It was very dear to me
28:32That of the visit
28:33To the prisons
28:34By Regina Celi
28:35For almost 25 years
28:37Every Saturday night
28:38Where could I take it?
28:40A word of comfort
28:41And of hope
28:42The detained people
28:43Among the hundreds
28:45Of people
28:45Meet
28:46Of the most diverse
28:47Welfare states
28:48Enrico De Pedis
28:49He came like everyone else
28:51And out of prison
28:52We saw each other several times
28:54Normally
28:55In the church
28:56Of which I was rector
28:57Knowing my schedule
28:58And other times outside
28:59By chance
29:00So
29:02By admission
29:02By Monsignor Vergari
29:03De Pedis
29:04He went to visit him
29:05In the church
29:06Of which he was rector
29:07And that is
29:08In the basilica
29:09Of Saint Pollinare
29:10Right next door
29:11At the music school
29:12Attended by Emanuela
29:14Orlandi
29:14Enrico De Pedis
29:16He had had the opportunity
29:17To see Emanuela
29:18And then report it
29:19In Ciletto
29:19Gigetto
29:20And Marco Sarnataro
29:21That they would take care of
29:22Materially
29:23Of his kidnapping
29:52In 1990
29:54Now provisionally
29:55In the seminary premises
29:57There is the music school
29:58From Vittoria
29:59Directed by a nun
30:00It's the school
30:01From where she disappeared
30:02The young Emanuela
30:02Orlandi
30:05They have passed
30:06Just 22 days
30:08Since the disappearance
30:09Of the girl
30:09And not
30:10A word of pain
30:12Of concern
30:13Of condolences
30:14Or of proximity
30:15To the family
30:16Only the desire
30:17To evict
30:18The music school
30:20From the building
30:20To leave space
30:22To the young priests
30:23The reopening
30:25Of the Pollinare
30:26From the Holy Father
30:27It would be a great
30:28Act of love
30:29By John Paul II
30:30Second
30:30Towards young priests
30:32Who will come to Rome
30:33To study
30:34From all over the world
30:35On purpose
30:37Of seminarians
30:38In 2009
30:39It is intercepted
30:40A phone call
30:41Between Monsignor Vergari
30:43And a young Burmese
30:44An interview
30:45Between a rector
30:47And a seminarian
30:48But the first one
30:49He doesn't look like a rector
30:50And the second one
30:51It doesn't give the idea
30:53Of wanting to study
30:54Religion
30:58Eh
30:58I play
30:59Games?
31:00All right
31:01As long as it's played
31:02It means that things
31:03They're fine, right?
31:04If you play
31:05It means that things
31:06They're fine
31:06Because if one plays
31:07He's having fun
31:08When he's happy, right?
31:09I play with my penis, though
31:11Yes, that's fine.
31:12All right
31:13In short
31:14Here it is
31:15Then you find yourself happy
31:16How happy are you?
31:18Yes, happy
31:20If you want to come
31:21I'm standing there
31:21Understood?
31:22There's no problem, right?
31:24But I'm scared
31:24Afraid of whom?
31:25Some mice?
31:26Whose?
31:27I'm afraid of sleeping alone
31:28No, okay
31:29We're here, aren't we?
31:30We're all here, right?
31:31I can
31:32Can I sleep with you?
31:33Yes
31:34Sure, sure, sure
31:35No, I have a large room
31:37Two, three, four beds
31:39So you can sleep there, right?
31:41No, I want to sleep in the same bed
31:42Well, the same bed
31:44It's not possible, right?
31:45Why?
31:46Eh, because everyone
31:47He must stay in his bed
31:48Understood?
31:49In his bed
31:50But no, I'm scared
31:51Fear
31:51No, no, when you're a meter away from me
31:53How scary
31:54No, no, I'm scared
31:56Oh, tell me, do you study a lot?
31:59Are you studying or what do you do?
32:00I play
32:01Well, you play
32:02Okay, I say study, nothing?
32:05Faculty?
32:06No?
32:06No, no, I play, I play a lot
32:08Yes, okay, okay
32:10Every night
32:11Yes, okay, okay
32:13I play my penis, though
32:14I play my penis
32:15Yes, that's fine.
32:16Listen
32:17When one is alone, like this
32:19I play alone
32:20Yes, that's fine.
32:21And there is no one
32:22The garden nothing?
32:23The little vegetable garden nothing?
32:25No, there is no space
32:26Ah, there is no space
32:28I play, play, play like this
32:30All right
32:31Then you play
32:32I feel tired, very tired
32:34You have to work
32:35Do you remember when you, Giula
32:38What is the name of that country where we went?
32:40That you made the prophecy to me
32:42That you made the prophecy to me, right?
32:44You made your own little vegetable garden
32:46And you gave me the vegetables
32:47You gave me the zucchini
32:48You gave me eggplants
32:50Bananas
32:51Bananas
32:51Even no
32:52There are no bananas in Naples
32:54We don't have it in Italy, do we?
32:56Bananas, courgettes, aubergines
32:58All long
33:00All are long and round
33:01I play
33:02You don't play?
33:03All right, all right
33:05At that time
33:05Let's play
33:06See you next time, okay?
33:07Next time we'll play together
33:10We will see each other
33:10We say goodbye
33:11When will it be?
33:12But never
33:14Why are you always so far away?
33:16So what?
33:16No, I'm playing
33:18All right
33:19So let's say goodnight
33:20What do you say, right?
33:21Milk came out
33:22All right
33:23The milk cream
33:23Yes, listen
33:25The head is shaking
33:26Let's say goodnight, shall we?
33:27Why is my head shaking?
33:28I don't know anything if your head is shaking
33:31It's not the flu you're sick with, is it?
33:33The head shakes for the banana
33:34Here you are
33:35Of the banana
33:36All right
33:37Little, little is coming out
33:41Antonio Mancini was also shocked
33:44Why do I have to say
33:45Oh well
33:46In short
33:47But it makes you understand what was happening
33:49Because then it's not that one says
33:50It will be private things
33:51In short
33:52You understand what's happening
33:53But with the seminarians
33:55In these interceptions
33:57So what?
33:59You know there was this
34:02The important opening of this internal investigation
34:06As always, there are conspiracy theories.
34:08But it must be said that in the Vatican
34:11There were some very tough internal struggles
34:13So what we want you to hear today
34:16It's Francesco Pazienza
34:17Who wrote a book
34:19Which was recently published
34:20Patience's version
34:22Because what does it tell?
34:24Tell something that is incredible
34:26Patience says
34:27Who is summoned to the Vatican
34:29And they ask him to find some letters
34:31Some documents
34:33Some photographs
34:33In short, something compromising
34:36President
34:36To get rid of
34:38Marcinkus
34:39Which is the head
34:40Dello Iorra
34:41And so on
34:42This is something that is incredible
34:43So our Francesca Carli
34:45She went there
34:46To ask
34:47But it's true
34:48That you went to the Vatican
34:49And they asked you
34:50To make this scandal
34:52To take out Marcinkus?
34:55In her book she writes
34:58Of having been summoned
35:00In the Vatican
35:02For a strange mission
35:05Search for documents
35:07Compromising
35:08Against Marcinkus
35:10In Roman
35:11They say
35:11To ruin
35:13Marcinkus
35:14They ask her
35:15To find
35:45Some cards
35:46System
35:47In a nutshell
35:48It was necessary to create
35:49A scandal
35:50The number 2
35:51From the Vatican
35:52He wanted to eliminate
35:53The number 3
35:53From the Vatican
35:54No
35:55He wasn't number 3
35:56He was the finance man
35:58From the Vatican
35:58Marcinkus
36:00Marcinkus
36:02Marcinkus
36:02They wanted to eliminate him
36:04The Secret Agent
36:05Patience
36:06Find that
36:06What was he looking for?
36:07It came into possession
36:09Of cards
36:10Dangerously
36:10Compromising
36:12For Monsignor
36:12Marcinkus
36:13Probably
36:14The same ones
36:15That the cardinal
36:16Casaroli
36:16Through Monsignor
36:17Sallet
36:18He was looking for
36:19After that in Switzerland
36:21I had succeeded
36:21To get your hands dirty
36:22On documents
36:23Compromising
36:23For Marcinkus
36:25That the faction
36:25Opposite him
36:26In the Vatican
36:27He was looking for
36:28I was in front
36:29With two possibilities
36:30Hand over the papers
36:31Burning
36:32To General Santovito
36:33Or
36:34Remove them from the market
36:35And have them delivered
36:36To the President
36:37Of the IOR
36:38Francesco Pazienza
36:39He tells us
36:40Who decided
36:40To deliver
36:41Those cards
36:42To Marcinkus
36:43But she
36:44This thing
36:44What does it tell?
36:45In his books
36:46Someone
36:47Did he ever deny it?
36:48Never anyone
36:49He denied it
36:51Just one sentence
36:52That I have read
36:53That he wrote
36:54In the book
36:54And not even sued
36:56So?
36:57Sued
36:57Let's not talk about it
36:58Not even
37:00At that time
37:01As you say
37:01Mancini
37:02We always talk
37:03Of money
37:03The money
37:04They were going
37:04In solidarity
37:05There was this axis
37:07Francesco Pazienza says
37:08Between Pope
37:09And precisely
37:11Monsignor Marcinkus
37:12The money was going away
37:13And then instead
37:14Your money
37:15They were not reported
37:17In short
37:17It seems like fantasy politics
37:18It seems like science fiction
37:20But
37:20We can invite you back
37:21Because you are
37:22As
37:23A well
37:24Of information
37:26AND
37:26Mancini
37:27Among other things
37:28Work with people with disabilities
37:29I said before
37:30I used a term
37:31Which is no longer used
37:32Truly
37:33He puts his face on it
37:35In the sense that
37:36In the first period
37:37Why it's worth it
37:38Why you say it's worth it
37:40Now he's going around
37:42In short, even with the students
37:43And he says that that
37:44What did they do?
37:45It wasn't good
37:46And he says it with conviction.
37:48Thank you
37:48Thank you Antonio Mancini
37:49Thank you all
37:49Thank you all
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