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00:00So, I'm approaching the table because he's there, you all know him, there's no need to introduce him, Pietro Orlandi. Pietro,
00:05Thank you, stay here with us this evening, let's try to...
00:08Thanks for the invitation.
00:09No, but let's make it clear, you know, that after all, family members, this is your home.
00:16So, I have built a page, let's say, important, because it's been 40 years, among other things, without forgetting Mirella Gregori,
00:25No?
00:25No, because for her it's already... May 7th. Well, 40 is over, so a kiss to Antonietta.
00:30But I wanted to tell you this, there's been a lot of controversy. Before talking about John Paul II, about these words...
00:37what did you say and declare to her, right?
00:40Because sometimes, explanations are there and they're simpler, right? But I wanted to start from this one.
00:48letter that arrived at the Orlandi house.
00:51It's a nasty letter. Peter, you intercepted it, right? This letter that reached your mother.
00:56Yes, Federica took it.
00:58Ah, Federica took it, so your sister Federica, right? Because Federica took it, luckily, and therefore yours.
01:03Mom didn't see it.
01:04But this letter arrived, which we can see, a letter where they write, well, they write badly about you, huh?
01:11And then, well, this one... He's gotten used to it now...
01:14That I will have to answer to God for my wickedness.
01:16Yes, among other things I have to say that Pietro Orlandi now comes around every now and then, every now and then someone gives you a
01:22blow, because, well, I challenge anyone to put themselves in their shoes, right?
01:27To me too, sometimes, I say to myself, but Peter, what happened with the numbers, but I challenge anyone to put themselves
01:31in the role of a brother who has a sister who has been missing for 40 years, nothing is known, and,
01:37by the way, you became grandparents, I saw Natalina, right?
01:41With the little nephew, etc., and your mom is always there, she had left the key attached to the door in the same house
01:48of the sister, grandmother, so we must also put ourselves in the shoes of these relatives.
01:52Now, what's going on? There's something special, the envelope, in the envelope, in the envelope, that if we can show,
02:01here it is, you see, there is no stamp on the stamp, it says for Pietro Orlandi, but it is put in the
02:07Mom's mailbox, because Peter, you don't live in the Vatican,
02:11and there's no stamp, as if someone actually went there and put it in.
02:19Confirmed also by the Vatican post office, that this letter did not arrive, so it was necessarily delivered by hand by
02:25someone.
02:25By hand from someone. So, we don't want to be conspiracy theorists, so, inside the Vatican, if someone has to go to the pharmacy,
02:33can he fit in, right?
02:34To go, if it's a recipe.
02:35You have to go to the permit office.
02:37No, I mean, it could be someone who is inside the Vatican, or someone from outside who has entered.
02:40But since Peter, among other things, responds to the accusations, well, he can't wait to find his sister again, to
02:47to have some justice.
02:49Anyway, let's not send these letters, because I think there's something that needs to be said this evening.
02:53But above all, sorry, above all, because this was put in my mother's mailbox, and she didn't read it.
02:58Luckily he didn't read it.
02:59Because similar messages still arrive at my house, but the fact that it was put in the mailbox.
03:03We can say, let's leave Manuela Orlandi's mother alone, because, after all, this is important.
03:07So, tell her out loud, do whatever you want, but don't touch mommy.
03:11So, the more years pass, the more people need to hear what's going on.
03:20That Peter, as you all know, went to the Vatican promoter of justice and gave him a series of very many documents.
03:26Then we know you, so we also study document after document with you.
03:31And among them there is an audio.
03:33It's a chat between Ambrosini and Nerone, who is a member, I said a minor one, of the Magliana gang.
03:39But it's so true that no one knew him before this fact came out.
03:43However, not less or not less.
03:45What's going on?
03:46We said that in reality it was not Peter who inflamed John Paul II, but Nero.
03:53With this very ugly sentence that we hear again.
03:59He even took them to bed together.
04:01He brought them to bed, I don't know, he didn't bring them.
04:02Inside is the Vatican.
04:05Now, this is a very bad sentence.
04:07Certain.
04:08He is the one who smears the Pope.
04:12By the way, I have to say, Ambrosini did well to give you this cassette, to let Ditti listen to it.
04:16Look, I heard that audio for the first time in 2017 or 2018, which I didn't consider at the time.
04:22it's appropriate to carry it forward, to make it public, above all to defend Emanuela.
04:29Because the way Emanuela was presented in this audio is really bad, that thing bothered me.
04:33I thought it was appropriate to bring it to Diddi.
04:35To Diddi.
04:36Then inside the Vatican, as a promoter of Vatican justice.
04:38This audio was released to the public on December 9th, no one ever cared.
04:42When finally, after years, we asked for a meeting to be able to verbalize so many things,
04:49This call arrives and it seemed logical to me to bring this audio to Diddi.
04:54He listened to it in front of me, he listened to it without beeping, especially because it was about Emanuela.
04:59If Emanuela hadn't been mentioned in that audio, I wouldn't have cared about taking him to Diddi.
05:03As a family member, you did very well to bring everything to Diddi, who is taking care of your sister,
05:10that an investigation has been reopened, it is necessary of course, if you have been summoned,
05:14you could finally speak inside the Vatican, you could finally give all the material.
05:18So much so that he said that their interest is to listen to him and if they can't,
05:22he said we will ask Lovoi, who is the head of the Rome Prosecutor's Office, to summon him, listen to him and
05:27Then...
05:27To Neroni, okay.
05:28So, what happened? Last time I said a sentence, I cleared this word,
05:36the little bitch, in short, I heard that audio and I think it's me...
05:41In fact it's an ugly word he says, we're talking about a criminal anyway.
05:44We're talking about a criminal, yes, but he says Emanuela and the other one is a bit of a joke,
05:48well, this is something your sister said too,
05:51No one is shocked by the way my sister is mentioned, right?
05:55That hurts, right? Because...
05:57And I wanted to say that in this audio, because I heard it, there was this word,
06:01because in my opinion we shouldn't censor, no, we should make people understand what...
06:07Then the rest are all the names, etc., but it's clear that it's not like you can make yourself heard.
06:11All.
06:11Yes, but in fact I let God hear it without a beep.
06:13And sure, you made it heard without a beep.
06:15So, what's going on? Something special happened,
06:22in the sense that all our viewers then when they heard a part of that audio
06:26they told us this thing.
06:27So, at a certain point Neroni also talks about us, about those who saw him, right?
06:32With Ambrosini, who had this long chat with him.
06:38Let's hear what he says. Short sentence.
06:41But if you imagine me calling whoever saw it, or I call a
06:44to tell him the facts of the, but today, I said it, I'm here to...
06:48And you are good, do me this favor, they are friends, I make a fool of myself, it's been many years.
06:53Yes, no, but who came here? I mean, no, ma'am, it's not now, I don't care.
07:00Yes, no, but here for example...
07:01I don't have to call anyone, I don't have to appear, I don't want to appear.
07:04Yes, he, he, I mean, listen to him, he gets confused because they talk to him about Giorgetti,
07:08Do you remember Giorgetti? Yes, yes, he's someone else, okay?
07:10I say it to those who have seen it, as if...
07:12No, but what I want to tell you, hearing these...
07:15Having heard the other sentences we had put last time,
07:17our viewers tell us, but it's not like he's the one who called the people who saw him
07:22to mention De Pedis and the tomb of Saint Polinare, but I'll explain why.
07:25Because it's funny, he says, and you think I'm going to call whoever saw it,
07:29as if to say, for goodness sake, I never called anyone who saw it.
07:32So, let's go back and see what they say.
07:33Then, you know, we work with our viewers,
07:36who pointed this out to us.
07:38Could it be that voice?
07:45Regarding the case of Emanuele Orlandi, to find the solution to the case,
07:48go and see that he is buried in the grippa of the Basilica of Santa Polinare
07:52and of the favor that Renatino did for Cardinal Poletti at the time.
07:57So, what did we do? We put the two voices, because in reality the head of the flying squad discovered who
08:03he had made that phone call,
08:04but that man always denied it.
08:05Anyway, we put the two entries.
08:07Who was the son.
08:08Exactly, he was the son of one of the Magliana gang who wanted to send us tanks, him too, in short.
08:13However, we compared these two voices with Michele Bonica.
08:19Let's hear them.
08:21But what if I start calling whoever saw him?
08:23Or call me one, tell her my business again.
08:26Regarding the case of Emanuele Orlandi, to find the solution to the case, go and see that he is buried in the grippa
08:31of the Basilica of Santa Polinare.
08:33De te si dono, do me this favor, they are friends, I make a fool of myself, it's been many years.
08:38Yes, no, but who came here? I mean, no, no, no.
08:41And of the favor that Renatino did for Cardinal Poletti at the time.
08:44And ask the bartender on Via Montebello, whose daughter was also with her, with the other Emanuele.
08:51So, we...
08:52It's difficult.
08:53Okay, but we would have asked him, no, him.
08:55But we were there, Francesco Paolo del Re, I must say, was treated badly by his son, he lost the microphone.
09:02Then Francesco Paolo del Re is brave, because he took it, he went, he knew that it was a situation that could
09:07be dangerous.
09:09But that happened.
09:10So we ask him from here.
09:12Because making a phone call isn't a crime; on the contrary, it's making a contribution.
09:17Even after we did the service and got to that phone call, then we talked about the case again.
09:22Emanuele Orlandi.
09:23No, it has finally become an open case again, whereas before nobody was talking about it.
09:27So if it happens to be him, he actually made a contribution, I mean, if we find out, it could be
09:32important.
09:34But from voice to voice instead we arrive at this voice which, I must say, gives you the shivers
09:39sister, he tells me, look, don't invite me on the show.
09:42The one on the cassette with these complaints, right?
09:44Your sister says, don't invite me on the show, I can't stand it anymore.
09:48But he's right, because look, it's a...
09:53It's really terrible audio.
09:57So, we still wanted to go back to that box, because you all wondered,
10:06there is a girl who is complaining, is she Emanuele Orlandi, or is it a porn film, a
10:12sado movie?
10:14It is not excluded.
10:14So, many of you have written to us, you have noticed some important things.
10:19Francesco Paolo del Re with Ima Giuliani.
10:33Good evening.
10:34I'm calling about the audio I heard last night regarding the Orlandi case.
10:38I'm calling about the Orlandi case.
10:41With this girl, what secret was there to hope for in order to be transported?
10:45They talk about the tape where the girl's moans can be heard.
10:49What was the reason why these criminals who took Emanuele Orlandi had to semi-citize her?
10:56For me it's not a porn tape, it's just a painful voice.
11:01Many of you have contacted us to express your views and solidarity with the family.
11:08I haven't been able to sleep since Wednesday thinking about those complaints.
11:17You have made some hypotheses about the cause of the screams and moans.
11:21You also offered us your interpretations of the recording.
11:25Speaking of the female voice, Maria from Berlin writes...
11:29When listening to the cassette excerpts, it is plausible that something was not understood.
11:33Because it seems to me that the female voice says with an Italian inflection
11:37which in German means go away, go away.
11:50A loyal viewer of ours named Axel tried to clean up the audio track
11:56and suggests an alternative interpretation of these words.
12:05The female voice doesn't say enough, let me sleep, but where will you let me sleep now?
12:11It seems he is asking a question to the ogre standing nearby.
12:14I'm sending you the audio that I cleaned up.
12:16Where will you let me sleep now?
12:19Where will you let me sleep now?
12:21Where will you let me sleep now?
12:22Another spectator calls us to tell us that, in her opinion, the female voice is not Roman,
12:29but he would have a Campanian accent.
12:31The girl's accent is from Campania.
12:34This girl doesn't seem Roman to me.
12:38There you can really feel that it is Campanian, not Roman.
12:41We hear a snippet of the recording again with the audio cleaned up by Axel.
12:46Where will you let me sleep now?
12:49Where will you let me sleep now?
12:51Where will you let me sleep now?
12:53Not only that.
12:54Always Axel, the spectator who helps us, writes to us again
12:57to also send us a more understandable version of men's voices.
13:02I'm sending you the audio cleaned up of the male voices you used in the last broadcast.
13:07The first voice says who this poor thing is.
13:10Yes, in this he does not want to exist.
13:13The second voice, I slowed it down a bit so you can hear what he's saying.
13:32It seems to us that the first words are
13:35Too close?
13:36Too close?
13:37Too close?
13:38Too close?
13:39Then it seems to us that one of the men says
13:42Yes, no, okay, I...
13:44And then a word that is difficult to understand.
13:47Yes, no, okay, I'll see.
13:49Yes, no, okay, I'll see.
13:50Yes, no, okay, I'll see.
13:52And then what you understand is
13:55So, ready?
13:56So, ready?
13:57So, ready?
13:58So, ready?
13:59Another viewer named Antonio
14:02interpret these sentences as things you would say during an audition.
14:06In the last audio you sent
14:09there is a voice with a Neapolitan accent
14:12what does he say?
14:13Are you ready?
14:15Get closer, that's fine.
14:18Too close?
14:19Okay, I'll see.
14:20So, ready?
14:22It kind of sounds like an audition tape to me.
14:27Too close?
14:28Okay, I'll see.
14:30So, ready?
14:32Yes, yes, no, okay, I'll see.
14:35So, ready?
14:37Yes, yes, no, okay, I'll see.
14:40So, ready?
14:44Look, in the meantime we always thank our viewers.
14:47why do they stand there with their instruments, right?
14:49But then, since even during the investigation,
14:51the substantial one that the Rome prosecutor's office made
14:54with Vittorio Rizzi, head of the flying squad,
14:57At one point there was talk of clips from pornographic films.
15:00So, what did Francesco Paolo del Re do?
15:02He went to Marco Giussi, who is a pillar of Retret,
15:05everyone knows him,
15:07and since he is also an expert in films in general,
15:10he asked him what he thinks about it.
15:13And we also asked Jessica Rizzo,
15:15who produces porn films
15:16and which she also did as an actress in these porn films.
15:22Let's see, because it's interesting.
15:24God, how bad, how bad.
15:27God let me sleep now.
15:29My father is extremely distressed,
15:31for sure, because after listening to that audio
15:33he tried to be firm,
15:35but I could see that something was breaking out inside him.
15:40The fact is that after a few days they call him,
15:42I don't know exactly whether at the police station or at the prosecutor's office,
15:46I presume at the police station,
15:48and they tell him to calm down,
15:50we had that audio cassette analyzed,
15:53Emanuela has absolutely nothing to do with it,
15:55it's not Emanuela's voice,
15:56we understood that they are just clips from a porn movie.
15:59In the Orlandi household, the tape hasn't been talked about since then,
16:03why investigators tell parents
16:04that the recording is the work of mythomaniacs.
16:08The datary's street box
16:10does it really contain a recording of a pornographic film?
16:22How did they manage to understand in two or three days?
16:24that they were clips from a porn movie?
16:26Then which porn movie?
16:28So, did they look for it?
16:29We asked the opinion of two experts,
16:32Marco Giusti, film critic and television writer,
16:36among the inventors of programs such as Blob, Fuori Orario and Stracult,
16:40and expert in genre cinema,
16:42and Jessica Rizzo,
16:43one of the queens of Italian art,
16:46actress, producer and director.
16:48Mrs. Rizzo, it is the evening of July 17, 1983.
16:51and to the Ansa journalist
16:54this audio is found,
16:56which we now hear together.
16:59Why don't you force me?
17:02Why?
17:03Are you forcing me like this?
17:05Why?
17:07Hate.
17:08Oh God, why are you forcing me like this?
17:13To me they don't seem like cries of pleasure,
17:16there is one who complains like this,
17:18hello, hello.
17:19Or is it a sadomasochistic film,
17:21but honestly,
17:23maybe I made a lot of films,
17:26I made 250 films,
17:27I always went to recording studios,
17:30but they were more cries of pleasure,
17:33and then, that is,
17:35while playing you have fun,
17:38even some words escape,
17:40No?
17:40Even strong words,
17:43but yes,
17:43Meaning what,
17:45here it gives me something gloomy,
17:49not exciting,
17:51not exciting,
17:52for now.
17:53While she listened,
17:55I saw his face almost suffering,
17:57scented, right?
17:58Yes,
17:58because I didn't find anything exciting, right?
18:04Oh, yes, come on,
18:06Meaning what,
18:06come on,
18:08Then,
18:08one even speaks,
18:11while having sex, right?
18:14Let's hope,
18:14do this,
18:15do this other one,
18:17instead here,
18:19I feel alone,
18:21I don't know,
18:22he gave it to me,
18:25it didn't give me a sense of pleasure,
18:28listening to him,
18:29sincerely.
18:30In her opinion it could be
18:31recording a pornographic film?
18:36Unless a movie,
18:38I don't know,
18:38on sadomasochism,
18:40something like that.
18:46It could be a pornographic film,
18:48in your opinion?
18:49No,
18:49in my opinion no,
18:51I don't feel like it's a pornographic film.
18:54They said it was fake,
18:56Meaning what,
18:56I have a thesis that it's fake,
18:59however,
19:00frankly,
19:01it doesn't seem fake to me,
19:05also because it is not so clear,
19:07if you fake it,
19:08you make it somehow clear,
19:12but in reality it could be anything,
19:15because it is very vague,
19:17so I don't know how much...
19:20How did the parents take it?
19:22how is it true?
19:23The parents took it as true,
19:24at the time,
19:25and they recognized their daughter's voice.
19:28The father and uncle recognized
19:30Emanuela's voice.
19:32But then,
19:33after a few days,
19:34Pietro Orlandi tells us,
19:36Emanuela's brother,
19:37some pollutants have arrived
19:39the communication that actually
19:40he would have been caught in a pornographic film
19:42and not to worry.
19:45A pornographic film
19:49It's with this difficult background noise,
19:54that is, it seems so mixed up
19:57which seems true,
20:00that is, do it on purpose
20:01It seems frankly strange to me.
20:04it could be a horror,
20:06but not even,
20:07I repeat,
20:08the horrors,
20:10the porn,
20:12I am however,
20:13in '83,
20:15they are much clearer anyway.
20:21It seems like a done deal,
20:23made on the fly,
20:26somewhere,
20:27in a room,
20:30it would seem.
20:31Can you hear the noise of the machines?
20:32especially at the beginning,
20:34And that's what it is.
20:35Wouldn't there be a pornographic film?
20:37No,
20:38on paper no.
20:39One more thing,
20:40I wanted to point out to you,
20:41at the end,
20:42there is a rustling sound,
20:43that seems different,
20:44if we can hear it.
20:51this sound,
20:52in her opinion,
20:53what could it be?
20:54let me hear it again,
20:55let me hear it again.
21:05This just seems like the take away
21:07of a ribbon,
21:09of a tape recorder,
21:13which is a tape recorder,
21:15evidently.
21:18We should hear
21:19these great mixers of the time,
21:22who knew how to make them.
21:23God, that hurts,
21:25how bad,
21:26God let me sleep now.
21:30At that time,
21:31Marco Giussi's great mixers
21:33he's right,
21:33you have to hear
21:34who worked on it
21:35in '83,
21:36because then the tax collectors
21:37they have changed.
21:37You need to have a lot
21:37the original cassette.
21:39This original cassette
21:40we couldn't find.
21:41And then with all due respect
21:42for consultations,
21:43that you just heard,
21:44I trust
21:45of the SISMI analysts,
21:47that is, the SISMI analysts
21:48they analyzed
21:49this box,
21:49they said
21:50there is absolutely no
21:51fiction.
21:53So they ruled out
21:54the question
21:55pornographic films
21:56and they said
21:57there is a very high probability
21:58that that one,
21:59in some sentences,
22:00those that make sense,
22:02both the voice
22:02Emanuel.
22:03That's the way thing
22:04of this situation,
22:05that the SISMI analysts
22:07they say this thing,
22:08they summon my father
22:09and they tell him
22:09no, don't worry
22:10that has nothing to do with it.
22:11it's a spec of...
22:12Consider that box
22:13four days before
22:14had been left under
22:15to the colonnade,
22:16had been taken
22:16to make the Vaticans work.
22:18Yes, we said it
22:18last week.
22:20So I mean,
22:20there are situations
22:21that would go
22:23deepened in that sense.
22:25No, in the meantime find
22:25the original cassette,
22:27because one, for goodness sake,
22:28he doesn't want to do it
22:28the conspiracy theorist,
22:32which is felt more.
22:33The male voices.
22:34The male voices.
22:34My father I remember said
22:35there were many male voices
22:37what everyone was saying
22:37those men.
22:39So it means
22:39which were several male voices.
22:41But, I,
22:42that's what
22:43you really have to get down to it
22:44in Peter's shoes
22:45and of the entire Orlandi family.
22:47The absurd thing
22:47of this story
22:48which lasts 40 years
22:49it's that it's full
22:50of red herrings.
22:51That is, one thing is said
22:52and then there's the opposite
22:53of that thing.
22:54And you don't know then
22:54what is the red herring
22:55and what is the real thing.
22:56And so you don't know anymore
22:57what is the red herring
22:58and the real thing.
22:58Why do we have to say
22:59that on the other side
23:00of the box
23:01we are talking about the claim
23:02for Ali Ak-Cha.
23:03I mean, there's another side.
23:05Because at the time
23:06there was the request
23:07of the exchange
23:07with Ali Ak-Cha.
23:08Why was there this fact?
23:09that if then someone
23:10he wanted it back
23:12Ali Ak-Cha
23:13which then ultimately remains
23:14and he was a murderer.
23:15in that period
23:15that was the hypothesis.
23:17But what happens
23:18it's that it makes an impression
23:19we heard first
23:21that viewer
23:22what does he tell us?
23:22look what's there
23:23Geveg
23:24which is a word
23:26they are two German words
23:27it makes an impression
23:28the interview
23:29that we have done
23:30years ago
23:31our correspondent did it
23:33Rino Pellino
23:34Berlin correspondent
23:35to an agent
23:36of the Stasi
23:37this is a close collaborator
23:39of the head of the secret services
23:41of East Germany
23:43the Bonsack
23:44huh?
23:44Bonsack
23:45no, listen to it
23:46because maybe
23:47you don't remember it
23:47but we already aired it
23:49but to make you understand
23:49which is the complete opposite of everything
23:51it's full of red herrings
23:53this story
23:54you have to be very careful
23:55but Peter is right
23:56you have to understand
23:57what happened
23:59what does he say
24:00these people
24:00of the secret services
24:01we were going
24:02of fantasy
24:04that is, they are inserted
24:05they fit in
24:05in the kidnapping
24:07by Emanuele Orlandi
24:08and they mislead
24:12she was among the closest collaborators
24:14by Marcus Wolf
24:15the legendary head of the Stasi
24:17the secret services
24:19of East Germany
24:20how did he deal with
24:22with the Emanuele Orlandi case?
24:27we gave the assignment
24:29to our agents
24:30to discover
24:31what was behind it
24:32but then we decided
24:34to exploit the case
24:35for our operations
24:36so to speak we went up
24:38on the moving chariot
24:39and we developed
24:41a strategy
24:42threat-based
24:43red herrings
24:44provocations
24:45targeted in short
24:46to use
24:47this story
24:48for our purposes
24:52for example
24:53we exploited
24:54the Orlandi case
24:55to threaten
24:56Judge Martella
24:57which he had drawn up
24:58the relationship
24:58on Aksha
24:59and on the attack
25:00we wrote to him
25:02Dear Mr. Martella
25:03be careful
25:04we are respectable people
25:06not banned
25:07but if she insists
25:08to defame
25:09discredit
25:09our friends
25:10she can run
25:11serious dangers
25:12think about the Orlandi case
25:16who gave you
25:18the order
25:18to act
25:19in this direction
25:28there was no
25:29no order
25:30specific
25:31there was a request
25:32of the Bulgarians
25:33arrived from
25:33Politburo
25:34of the party
25:35Bulgarian communist
25:36and also one
25:37of the Russians
25:38the invitation to do
25:39everything possible
25:40to use
25:40all methods
25:41to push away
25:42from the east
25:43the suspicion
25:44to be
25:44the instigators
25:45of the attack
25:46to the Pope
25:47and we were
25:48a group of agents
25:49who worked
25:50in this sector
25:53he remembers
25:55who came
25:56in mind
25:56the idea
25:57to use
25:57the story
25:58to Orlandi
26:04we had meetings
26:06almost every week
26:07we were there
26:08we Germans
26:09the Bulgarians
26:10the Poles
26:10a kind of briefing
26:12in which it was done
26:13the point
26:13of the situation
26:14they gathered
26:15the ideas
26:16but as if we were
26:17sitting around
26:18at a table
26:18in front of a glass
26:19of beer
26:26everyone proposed
26:27we can do this
26:29we can do that
26:30there was no limit
26:31to the imagination
26:34look at Peter
26:35it makes an impression
26:36hear this gentleman
26:38with this face
26:39smiling
26:40speak
26:41he says we
26:41between a beer
26:42and the other
26:42Yes
26:43he also said it
26:43another
26:44their agent
26:44and it makes an impression
26:46because it's like it doesn't happen
26:47he was talking about a girl
26:48in the flesh
26:49I don't know if the direction
26:50can you send me
26:50this image
26:51that we have searched for
26:52for years
26:53Vittoria Polato looked for them
26:54of Tande
26:54but where can you see it?
26:55your sister
26:56this spray
26:56why us
26:57we are used to it
26:58to her with the band
27:01here it is
27:01what is in these pictures
27:04what is in these pictures
27:06in this broadcast
27:07of the RAI
27:07which is called Tandem
27:09she's a girl
27:10in the flesh
27:11which has disappeared
27:1240 years ago
27:13and now
27:14everyone's talking about it
27:15and one says something
27:16and one says
27:17the filthiness
27:17it's hard to separate
27:18the red herrings
27:19for personal interests
27:21like the Stasi did
27:22and red herrings
27:23to push away
27:24from the truth
27:25because it's another one
27:26type of diversion
27:27when you're too close
27:29the truth
27:29arrives at the diversion
27:30that pushes you away
27:31that was done
27:31for their own interests
27:32related to the issue
27:33of the attack
27:34Bulgaria
27:35and it was the period
27:37of the attack
27:37of the Pope
27:38but look
27:41that's all
27:42and it's the opposite
27:43of everything
27:44then immediately
27:44after this short break
27:45we're talking to you
27:46of London
27:47it is possible
27:48that Emanuela Orlandi
27:49was brought
27:51in London
27:52that they were made
27:53of the expenses
27:54for her
27:55and that someone
27:56in London
27:57knew
27:57of a girl
27:58taken away
27:59in a hurry
28:00from Italy
28:01to be hidden
28:02there
28:02and then reported
28:04in Italy
28:05when she died
28:06No?
28:07This
28:08In short
28:08the final things
28:10to do
28:10then immediately
28:11after this short break
28:15then there is one last letter
28:17that arrives
28:17we want to talk to you about
28:18among other things
28:20Peter
28:20rightly
28:21it is being studied
28:22all these cards
28:23he gave it to her
28:24to the promoter
28:25of Vatican justice
28:25then explain it to us well
28:27what happened
28:28and I believe
28:29that a family member
28:30as soon as he sees a letter
28:31where are there
28:32of the information
28:33right away
28:33hope is kindled
28:36this is natural
28:38so for this
28:39I was saying
28:39it's quite the opposite
28:40of everything
28:40you have to be careful
28:41to the poisoned meatballs
28:43but above all
28:43understand exactly why
28:44there are these meatballs
28:45poisoned
28:46and if there are any
28:46because they are
28:48to arrive
28:48to the truth
28:50then with Francesco
28:51Paul of the King
28:51this London
28:54where the girl
28:55would have been brought
28:56estate
28:56in a clinic
28:58for months
29:04Dear Eminence
29:06became aware
29:07of his stay
29:08for a few days
29:09here in London
29:09I feel obligated
29:11to invite her
29:11to visit me
29:12in the next few days
29:13to discuss
29:14personally
29:15of the situation
29:16by Emanuella Orlandi
29:17that I am aware of
29:19after years
29:20of epistolary exchanges
29:21I think it's right
29:22discuss in person
29:23of a situation
29:24of such importance
29:25let me know
29:27if he needs it
29:27of a personal translator
29:29or if he will be able
29:30to bring one with you
29:32I'm waiting
29:33of his response
29:34Best regards
29:35George Cantuar
29:42to write this letter
29:43it would have been
29:44George Carey
29:45Archbishop of Canterbury
29:46from 91 to 2002
29:48as you can see
29:49in the header
29:50the letter
29:51would have left
29:52from Ambeth Palace
29:53that is to say
29:54from the residence
29:55official
29:55of the archbishop
29:56This
29:57with regard to
29:58the sender
29:58and the recipient
30:00it is his eminence
30:01cardinal
30:02Ugo Poletti
30:03regarding the fact
30:05by Emanuella Orlandi
30:06go and see
30:06which is buried
30:07in the crypt
30:08of the basilica
30:09of Saint Polinare
30:09and of the favor
30:11that Renatino
30:11he did to Cardinal Poletti
30:12at the time
30:15Poletti
30:15in dress
30:16of vicar general
30:17of his holiness
30:18sign the authorization
30:19for the burial
30:20of the boss
30:21Enrico De Pedis
30:22in the crypt
30:23of the basilica
30:24of Saint Polinare
30:25next to the school
30:26of music
30:27frequented
30:28by Emanuella Orlandi
30:29in this letter
30:30the Archbishop of Canterbury
30:32he tells Poletti
30:33who have to speak
30:34in person
30:34taking advantage
30:35of the fact
30:36that the cardinal
30:37in those days
30:38it would be found
30:39in London
30:39the address
30:40to which Poletti
30:41would reside
30:42we read it
30:43in conclusion
30:43to the letter
30:45176
30:46Clapham Road
30:47at this address
30:49corresponds
30:50a structure
30:51belonging
30:51to the congregation
30:52Catholic nun
30:54of the fathers
30:54Scalabrinians
30:55with a star
30:56of youth
30:57where we have
30:58already met
30:59this address
31:01176
31:02Clapham Road
31:03it's very similar
31:04but not perfectly
31:06the same
31:06at 176
31:08Chapman Road
31:09or the place
31:10in London
31:11where the fifteen year old
31:12disappearance
31:12would have stayed
31:14since 1983
31:15to 1985
31:17according to the report
31:19summary
31:20of the expenses
31:21supported
31:21from the State
31:22Vatican City
31:23for the activities
31:24relative
31:25to the town
31:26Emanuela Orlandi
31:29it's a document
31:31that we have for you
31:31already shown
31:32dated 1998
31:34here it is
31:355 sheets
31:37typewritten writings
31:38they would have been
31:39compiled
31:39from the president
31:40of the administration
31:42of the heritage
31:43of the Apostolic See
31:44almost 500 million
31:47of lire
31:47would have been spent
31:49to host
31:50Emanuela Orlandi
31:51in some facilities
31:52religious
31:53in Rome
31:53and in Parma
31:54for then
31:55transfer it
31:56in London
31:56to support
31:57medical expenses
31:58at a clinic
31:59of the British capital
32:00and even
32:01those of a gynecologist
32:03until the last sentence
32:05from the content
32:05really sinister
32:06transfer
32:08at the State
32:08Vatican City
32:10with relative
32:11to get things done
32:11final practices
32:16so
32:16Emanuela
32:17it would have been
32:18Viva
32:18until 1997
32:19and the Vatican
32:21he would have hidden it
32:22and cared for
32:22on English soil
32:25in front of
32:26to crimes
32:26so serious
32:27and to the disappearance
32:28of a girl
32:2915 years old
32:29that everyone is looking for
32:30the Vatican
32:31would really have
32:32guarded
32:32a document
32:33so compromising
32:34in 2017
32:35the Holy See
32:36the bubble
32:37as false
32:38and ridiculous
32:39saddens
32:40says the Secretariat
32:41of State
32:42that with these
32:43false publications
32:44which among other things
32:45they damage the honor
32:45of the Holy See
32:46it gets worse again
32:48the immense pain
32:49of the family
32:50Orlandi
32:50to which
32:51the Secretariat
32:52of State
32:52reiterates
32:53his
32:53participant
32:54solidarity
32:55we have shown
32:57the document
32:58to Don Filippo Di Giacomo
32:59a journalist
33:00Vatican expert
33:01he explains to us
33:02that if this document
33:04had been
33:04actually
33:05product
33:06from the Roman Curia
33:07here he would have had
33:08the coat of arms
33:09here he would have had
33:10the date
33:11it would have been
33:12paginated
33:13starting from here
33:14he wouldn't have gone
33:15beyond
33:16this last line
33:17after which
33:18would have had
33:19a line
33:21where there were
33:22the owners
33:23and it never gets put
33:25state to quote
33:25Vatican
33:26this edition
33:27Anno Domini
33:28so unhooked
33:29month of March
33:30day 28
33:31the signature
33:32it always comes
33:32accompanied
33:33from the seal
33:34but then
33:35among other things
33:36would always put
33:37the cross in front
33:38and then
33:39would use
33:40card
33:40in the report
33:42of the expenses
33:42we find many numbers
33:43in lire
33:44because we are
33:45in 1998
33:46but look
33:48these two voices
33:49450,000 lire
33:51for a presumed
33:52investigative source
33:53at
33:54fashion atelier
33:54Fontana Sisters
33:55and 900,000 lire
33:57for a second
33:58transfer
33:59why they hit us
34:01after the point
34:03we find
34:03two zeros
34:04instead of three
34:05two zeros
34:07like those
34:08that we are
34:08get used to writing
34:09in the euro era
34:10but if they were lire
34:12one is missing
34:13the missing zero
34:15it's a simple
34:16typo
34:17or a slip
34:18of the writer
34:19In short
34:20it's a meatball
34:21poisoned
34:22Certainly
34:23it doesn't come out
34:23from no office
34:24connected
34:25up close
34:26or from afar
34:26with the state
34:27of the city
34:27of the Vatican
34:28if it were true
34:29only 5%
34:30of that
34:31that this document
34:32tells
34:33the Roman Curia
34:34it shouldn't be
34:36reformed
34:37but it should be
34:38abolished
34:38I am convinced
34:40with experience
34:40that I have
34:41of ecclesial living
34:42that this
34:43it's a meatball
34:45poisoned
34:46it's not the first time
34:48that in this story
34:49we're talking about London
34:50we're going there
34:51already in 2011
34:52when a spy
34:53who calls himself
34:54lone wolf
34:55and says he is
34:56was a man
34:57of the secret services
34:58reveals that the girl
35:00it would be found
35:00in an asylum
35:01in England
35:02sedated for years
35:03but it's not like that
35:04they told us
35:05that there had been
35:05this person
35:06which had the name
35:07Orlandi
35:07but it didn't match
35:09at least the age
35:10he was an elderly person
35:12sorry Peter
35:13an older person
35:15then we went into more detail
35:18it had to be
35:18a person born
35:19in 28
35:20lone wolf
35:22he is under investigation
35:23and then sentenced
35:24he had made it all up
35:27a few years later
35:28in 2017
35:29we're talking about it again
35:31of London
35:31and in the document
35:32with the expenses
35:33they are cited
35:34some addresses
35:35where the girl
35:36would have been transferred
35:37in the English capital
35:39our colleague
35:40Andrea Gentile
35:41goes to a facility
35:42religious
35:43at Ellerdale Road
35:44cited in the dossier
35:45and speaks
35:46with a nun
36:03at a later time
36:06he also speaks
36:06with the mother superior
36:08of the convent
36:08who lives there
36:09since 1987
36:11she confirms
36:12to never have
36:13known
36:14nor hosted
36:14the town
36:15Vatican
36:16he says
36:17there has never been one here
36:18no Emanuela
36:19Orlandi
36:19it's news
36:20completely unfounded
36:23let's go back then
36:24where we started from
36:26from the last document
36:27which has been spread
36:28and that is the letter
36:30that the former archbishop
36:31of Canterbury
36:31Carey
36:32he would have written
36:33in 1993
36:34to Cardinal Poletti
36:36to talk
36:37of the situation
36:37by Emanuela Orlandi
36:39to check
36:40the reliability
36:41of this document
36:42we wrote
36:43directly
36:44to the former archbishop
36:46what time
36:46he became Lord
36:47Lord Carey
36:49he answers us
36:49his son
36:50which is his press office
36:52dear Francesco
36:53Thanks for your email
36:54I'll answer you
36:55on behalf of my father
36:56Lord Carey
36:57my father
36:58he doesn't know anything
36:59of events
36:59to which it refers
37:00has however
37:01saw a copy
37:02of the letter
37:02from a British journalist
37:04which he believes
37:04it's a fake
37:05we can confirm
37:07which is not a letter
37:08that he would have written
37:09it's in very bad English
37:10with the syntax
37:11tortured
37:12and not on letterhead
37:14of Lambert Palace
37:21Then Peter
37:22tea
37:22in case you say
37:23no but I to this letter
37:24I believe it
37:25there are strange things
37:26it's very easy
37:26now in the technological age
37:28to say something
37:29it's false
37:29or is it true
37:30no one will ever understand it
37:31I often watch
37:33to the contents
37:34more than the form
37:35both of the letter
37:35that of the five sheets
37:37why those five sheets
37:38meanwhile the Vatican
37:40he never answered me
37:40when he asked me
37:41How come
37:41it was inside a safe
37:43of the prefecture
37:44of economic affairs
37:44if it was a fake
37:45they never answered me
37:47if you read that letter carefully
37:49there are some
37:49within
37:50some sentences
37:51that is understood
37:52that have been written
37:53from an insider
37:54to the Vatican
37:54and any person
37:55inside the Vatican
37:56he knows that it is not written
37:57revered
37:58so much so that it is true
37:58that below speaking
37:59by Casaroli
38:00writes most reverend
38:02an account
38:03they are the official documents
38:05as you said
38:05if the stamp is missing
38:06an account is missing
38:07but two zeros
38:08instead of three
38:09but Peter
38:09I want to tell you this
38:10but precisely for these
38:11little things
38:12it is said
38:13it's false
38:14no but the problem
38:15is to understand
38:15if it is false
38:16but also the Vatican
38:18but who is it that puts
38:19a poisoned meatball
38:20inside precisely
38:21the prefecture etc.
38:22that is the problem
38:23is that if someone
38:25he got busy
38:26to write these things
38:27are found
38:28you have to find
38:29that someone
38:30if it is false
38:31because there are
38:31but it could be false
38:33but there are written
38:33within
38:34in your opinion
38:34There are
38:35like the repentant
38:36which can say a hundred things
38:37one is true
38:38and 99
38:38but the way they are written
38:40I studied it carefully
38:41the written sentences
38:42the mythomaniac
38:43he doesn't wake up
38:44to write those things
38:45but anyway
38:45Lord Carrey
38:46he told us
38:47look
38:47that me
38:48I don't know anything
38:48he said that the signature
38:49it's definitely his
38:50but I repeat
38:51Lord Carrey
38:52he would never have said
38:53ah yes this one
38:53I wrote it to Puletti
38:54no okay
38:55let's forget it
38:56but Peter
38:57oh come on
38:58you have to stay calm
38:59you know why
39:00because I
39:01and I always say it
39:02no I try to look at things
39:03and I say
39:05you have the right
39:06you family members
39:06to say what you want
39:07but it can be put
39:08that at 50%
39:09It's 50% true
39:10but there are some things
39:11which then are
39:12of the fakes
39:13but he told us
39:14that of the Stasi
39:15but why this
39:15you can say 100%
39:17which is false
39:18it can't be said
39:18Peter the problem
39:19you know what it is
39:20it's not the problem
39:20100%
39:21even if it's false
39:22at 50%
39:23you have to understand
39:24because there is a fake
39:25which is circulating in the Vatican
39:27because if there is a war
39:28inside the Vatican
39:29it's not like he can go there
39:30in the family
39:30no this one wasn't circulating
39:31in the Vatican
39:32this is
39:32this one here
39:33alright
39:33it's the letter
39:34that I don't know
39:34maybe it has arrived
39:35to Fittipaldi
39:36I do not know
39:36ninth
39:37it's been a long time
39:38it's been a long time
39:39it didn't arrive
39:40to Fittipaldi
39:41Excuse me
39:41he spoke
39:42with Diddi
39:43of this thing
39:44of this situation
39:47but there are
39:47of the documents
39:48that circulate
39:48there are some things
39:50which I repeat
39:52must be
39:53in-depth
39:54to understand
39:54how much can they be
39:55but that
39:57that they do to me
39:58to stretch out
39:59with a high percentage
40:01that Emanuela
40:02was taken there
40:03Peter
40:03you are convinced
40:04of this
40:05us
40:05I can't discard it
40:07a priori
40:07Understood
40:08we went
40:09in London with you
40:10he went there then
40:10to ours
40:11with Lupo Solidario
40:13etc.
40:14then for us
40:15certain things
40:15they are poisoned meatballs
40:17they are false
40:18Peter then knows us
40:19In short
40:19we love each other
40:21regardless
40:22from what we say
40:22but the problem
40:24the problem
40:26is that when you talk
40:27Emanuela Arlandi
40:28you have to stay
40:30very careful
40:30a bit like if
40:31it burned
40:32All
40:33At that time
40:33us now
40:34we'll tell you
40:35one thing
40:35what he told us
40:36Cosè's mother
40:37Garramon
40:38Maria Laura
40:39that he wanted to tell us
40:41because there were
40:42two meetings
40:43a
40:44known
40:45that of Capaldo
40:46when he said
40:47That
40:48he met
40:50with some people
40:51with Gianni
40:52the former commander
40:53of the gendarmine
40:53and his deputy
40:54Alexandrians
40:54because it was time
40:55of the problem
40:57of this tomb
40:58by De Pedis
40:59that needed to be solved
41:01this problem
41:01but there is another meeting
41:03instead of which
41:03he didn't know
41:05Nobody
41:05and this meeting
41:06he tells us about it
41:07Maria Laura
41:08Garramon
41:08it's the mother
41:10you all remember it
41:11what is it about
41:11that little boy
41:12who is killed
41:13in Ostia
41:14and to Cetti
41:15is being processed
41:16as if he had
41:17Like this
41:17manslaughter
41:18and had invested it
41:19but a little boy
41:20that from the Eura
41:21in Ostia
41:21he doesn't get it
41:22alone
41:22we hear
41:24I listened
41:26the statements
41:27of the prosecutor
41:30of the time
41:30Capaldo
41:32who said
41:33that he
41:35had
41:35a meeting
41:36in the Vatican
41:37in the year
41:382012
41:40I don't know
41:41if this is true
41:42or it's not true
41:43because I wasn't there
41:44but yes
41:46I stayed
41:47amazed
41:49Why
41:50the meeting
41:51who had
41:52Capaldo
41:53with the Vatican
41:54he was with me
41:55Maria Laura
41:56how it happened
41:57his meeting
41:58with the power of attorney
41:59of Rome
42:00it was her
42:01to ask
42:02to be received
42:03or has been summoned
42:05from the prosecutor's office
42:05of Rome?
42:06no it wasn't me
42:07to ask
42:10it was me
42:12and I was received
42:14very kindly
42:15they told me
42:16at that moment
42:17what they told me
42:18that could not be done
42:19absolutely nothing
42:22and I remember
42:23that I started
42:24almost like crying
42:25because I couldn't believe it
42:27that this
42:29was happening
42:30I don't remember
42:31if it were
42:32Simona Maisto
42:33or Capaldo
42:34one of the two
42:35he told me
42:36Lady
42:37don't worry
42:38why all that
42:39what she is doing
42:41for his son
42:41will help us
42:43very, very much
42:44to arrive
42:45to the truth
42:46by Emanuele Orlandi
42:47I stayed
42:49but I
42:51I didn't understand
42:53what was happening
42:56as they thought
42:58that the death of José
42:59could help them
43:00they make a request to her
43:02specification
43:03No?
43:03yes yes
43:03he asked me
43:05a meeting
43:06with Giancarlo Capaldo
43:08Giancarlo Capaldo
43:09and Simona Maisto
43:11both
43:12what do they ask her?
43:13to have a meeting
43:16with a person
43:18in the Vatican
43:18which was why
43:19I said
43:20that I had asked for
43:22help to the Vatican
43:23I wrote
43:24a letter
43:24to Pope Francis
43:25asking for help
43:27through a friend
43:29which brought about
43:29this letter
43:30and Pope Francis
43:32he answered me
43:32that he
43:33he wanted to help me
43:34in all that
43:35that I
43:36I needed
43:37and Capaldo
43:39and Simona Maisto
43:40they knew
43:41that I had
43:42a person
43:42who was helping me
43:43and then
43:45Pope Francis
43:45he had told her
43:46that yes
43:46to help me
43:47in all that
43:48that I
43:48I needed
43:49Giancarlo Capaldo
43:50and Simona Maisto
43:51they ask her
43:51Of
43:52to have a meeting
43:53to use
43:54his knowledge
43:55this knowledge of his
43:56that he had put on her
43:57on a motorbike
43:58for his son
43:59Right?
43:59for his daughter
44:00and they
44:01they decide
44:01to ask her
44:02to use them
44:04by Emanuele Orlanti
44:06Right?
44:07It is true
44:07It is true
44:08and I
44:10I spoke
44:11with Monsignor La Terza
44:14I say the name
44:14because there isn't
44:15nothing to hide
44:16and this is
44:17the absolute truth
44:20if it was possible
44:21have this meeting
44:22he told me
44:23yes
44:23I can tell you
44:25that there was
44:25a meeting
44:26between Simona Maisto
44:28Giancarlo Capaldo
44:30Monsignor Giuseppe La Terza
44:32and it was me
44:34to have this meeting
44:36in an apartment
44:37in the Prati district
44:39with a lunch
44:40which then
44:41it's a lunch
44:42that was not
44:43a lunch
44:43because half an hour later
44:44we're back
44:45they told me
44:47who wanted to talk
44:48Yes
44:48of my son
44:49when we arrived
44:50they started
44:51to speak
44:51by Emanuele Orlandi
44:53and Monsignor La Terza
44:53he looked at me
44:54and he told me
44:54let's go away
44:55me on these things
44:57I don't want to talk
44:58he said
44:59I came here
45:00to talk
45:01by José Carramone
45:05ah of Emanuele's things
45:06he didn't want to talk
45:07it doesn't make an impression
45:08I'm telling you
45:09it makes an impression
45:10he says no
45:11by Emanuele Orlandi
45:11we don't want to talk about it
45:12it's not the first
45:13and lunch ends
45:14then you
45:15go to the promoter
45:16of Vatican justice
45:17go out because you're also happy
45:19why do you say something
45:20but then what
45:22it happened
45:23then look
45:24me in these 40 years
45:26you've known me for a long time
45:27I have always been
45:28a fair person
45:29and honest
45:30now they want to let me pass
45:32someone wants to let me pass
45:34for an incorrect person
45:35and not honest
45:36why do I hear myself say
45:37after years
45:39I ask for a meeting
45:41to be summoned
45:42to be able to verbalize
45:43because I have important things
45:45that I wanted to verbalize
45:46I finally get called
45:47this investigation opens
45:48the Vatican after 40 years
45:49opens this investigation
45:50I am called
45:52I'm in there for eight hours
45:54happy to stay eight hours
45:55and in the end I also told him
45:56call me whenever you want
45:58day or night
45:58at any time
46:01I also bring a memorial just to be safe
46:03that I write all the things
46:05that I would have said verbally
46:06with photographs
46:07of whatsapps
46:07of all documents
46:09the names of 28 people
46:11so when they say
46:12you didn't give us the names
46:13you gave 28 names
46:15I gave
46:15there were 28 names
46:16of people who in my opinion
46:17Among these names there are also
46:20the names of people
46:21of the famous WhatsApps
46:22who talk about Emanuela
46:23of Emanuela's documents
46:24I give him this list
46:26the Didi in front of me
46:27he reads it aloud
46:29the meeting was videotaped
46:31then read aloud
46:32I hear myself being told
46:33the next day
46:34suddenly
46:35once and for all
46:36I repeat
46:37for 40 years
46:38I was a person
46:39correct and honest
46:40to say that we
46:42we refuse to move forward
46:43to collaborate
46:44why we refuse
46:45to name people
46:48I remained like this
46:49but they've gone crazy
46:50in here
46:50We need to clarify one thing.
46:52this is important
46:53Peter names 28 names
46:5528 is not a small number
46:56there are 28 people
46:57to hear
46:57because somehow
46:58they might know
47:00something
47:01even just this
47:02In short
47:03could be
47:03knowledge of the facts
47:04and under every name
47:06I wrote the reasons
47:07the reasons
47:08it's not that you gave him
47:09some random names
47:10what happens now
47:11that from my friend Floris
47:14you at a certain point
47:15you said
47:16this sentence
47:17John Paul II
47:18why though
47:18he was going out
47:19no let's clarify everything
47:20no but you mean
47:21why I arrived
47:22to say that thing
47:22At that time
47:23I was seasoned
47:24I can say one thing
47:25you
47:26you actually
47:27say something
47:29No
47:29That
47:30you said
47:31I heard it in the Vatican
47:32but why
47:33I believe that everyone
47:34in the Vatican
47:34they read each other
47:35the book
47:36what is called
47:38A Life with Carol
47:41Right
47:41it's the first person
47:42who accused me
47:43of being a criminal
47:44that I offend the Pope
47:45in the sense
47:46then we want to clarify
47:47this fact
47:48Why
47:48it came out badly for you
47:49Perhaps
47:50they misunderstood
47:52but the problem
47:53of the Pope's outbursts
47:54in secret
47:54not everything
47:55the ending
47:55maybe it was my thought
47:57but the sentence was that
47:57OK
47:58so what happens
48:00that A Life with Carol
48:02he is the private secretary
48:04No
48:04Don Stanislaus
48:05now the cardinal
48:06Stanislaus Gieckis
48:07he is the private secretary
48:08by John Paul II
48:09so what happens
48:10that in this mouse
48:12that everyone in the Vatican
48:13they will have read
48:14at a certain point
48:14he writes that
48:15John Paul II
48:16he left the Vatican
48:18he was trying to get out
48:19in great secrecy
48:20because he wanted
48:20stay close to God
48:22vent
48:22go to the mountains
48:23etc.
48:24and he went out with two
48:25he doesn't say that though
48:27No
48:27Wait
48:28here it says
48:28next to him
48:29there were more than a hundred
48:31those shipments
48:32mostly in Abruzzo
48:33in the beginning
48:34nobody knew anything about it
48:35nor in the Vatican
48:36nor among journalists
48:37the first time
48:37it was almost an escape
48:38Peter
48:39but you have to keep quiet
48:41because otherwise you'll be in trouble for yourself
48:43At that time
48:43that's what I mean
48:45is that
48:45those words that Peter said
48:48they are written
48:49not from a book
48:50of a subversive
48:51but in the book
48:52of a person who was close
48:54because when the promoters of justice
48:56they say I don't want to name names
48:57and why don't you decide to read it to him?
48:59that book
48:59where are the two Poles
49:00I would like to remind you that
49:00the investigation is into the disappearance
49:02and on the kidnapping of Emanuela
49:04first
49:04it's not on the statements
49:05what does Pietro Orlandi do?
49:06or of the Pope's outbursts
49:08I talked about this thing
49:10because I was talking about it
49:11why I named names
49:12of these two
49:13Polish monsignors
49:14which were very
49:14instead of emptying
49:15and so they were people
49:16that could be heard
49:18and I told her calmly
49:19to him too
49:19also because
49:20it was known that John Paul II
49:21sometimes he went out in the evening
49:22secretly together with these two Poles
49:25and he asks for this name
49:26he asks for this name
49:26as if it were the fundamental thing
49:28but now we have discovered
49:29which in reality
49:29it's written in a book
49:31and he also explained in his book
49:33how did he manage to sneak out?
49:35he says so
49:35how did he manage to sneak out?
49:37together with two monsignors
49:38the problem is not to add that
49:41that is, the problem is
49:42these are facts
49:43that tells
49:44who was close to the Pope
49:45who made a book
49:46and he was not sued
49:47it's clear that
49:48if you then put it next to
49:50at the exit
49:51with Emanuela Orlandi
49:52can anyone understand
49:53that you are smearing the Pope
49:54it's not like that
49:55just 30 seconds
49:56just 30 seconds
49:57but you understand that this situation
49:59it was taken on purpose
50:01that sentence
50:01to create this situation
50:03no no but what Peter says
50:03this is it
50:04to take a step back
50:05no because I can say
50:05this thing
50:06I wanted to organize
50:07this thing made me sad
50:08I want to tell it
50:09because I
50:09I was organizing
50:10for the fortieth anniversary
50:11of Emanuela's disappearance
50:13as in 2012
50:14I would have liked to do
50:15this sit-in
50:16at the Capitol
50:17and then like in 2012
50:19go to the Angel
50:20with photography
50:21there was the former mayor Alemanno
50:23the Veltronis
50:24the Zingarettis
50:25I had asked the same thing
50:26to the municipality
50:27enthusiastic
50:28he had also given me an appointment
50:29to the mayor of Rome
50:30April 26th
50:31to meet us
50:32to organize this thing
50:33after the words
50:33this thing just blew up here
50:35they took a step back
50:36they told me
50:37not the municipality of Rome
50:38regarding the fortieth anniversary
50:39he decided to sit upstairs
50:41due to the jubilee of 2025
50:43and then they told me
50:45the reasons are
50:46that situation
50:47what happened with the Vatican
50:48so when I a few years ago
50:50a few months ago
50:51I said
50:52I finally realized
50:53that on the part of the institutions
50:54there is no more
50:54that psychological subservience
50:56towards the Vatican
50:57Unfortunately I'm realizing
50:58instead there is
50:59that psychological subservience
51:00there are those who take a step back
51:02there are deputies
51:03senators
51:04That
51:04Renzi
51:05and other people
51:06that say things
51:06but Peter
51:07what he says
51:08he says how I speak
51:09the doors are closing on me
51:11and that's not good
51:12because the sister
51:13remains missing
51:14the poisoned meatballs
51:15you have to understand
51:16who sends them
51:17who sends the journalists?
51:18and the lawyers
51:19there is bad faith in all of that
51:20what are they doing now
51:21the important thing is though
51:22always keep
51:23straight bar
51:25there is a missing girl
51:26and all of them together
51:27we have to help
51:28the family
51:29and I hope that
51:30that they remember
51:30really of this fact
51:31that the main goal
51:32is to arrive
51:33to the truth
51:34what happened
51:34so don't close the doors
51:36to Pietro Orlandi
51:37and great understanding
51:39for a family
51:40that you saw
51:41what did he have to go through?
51:43Peter thanks
51:44Thank you
51:45HI
51:45Thank you
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