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00:00How do the Browns get a quarterback?
00:02Like, in your mind, is it only draft one next year?
00:06I'm going to wait.
00:07Yeah.
00:07So be bad and draft one.
00:08That's what it is.
00:09I'm not trying to be bad.
00:11I just think they're not going to be good naturally.
00:13But it kind of sounds like, in your mind, it is be bad this year and get one,
00:17because how else would you get one?
00:18It doesn't kind of sound.
00:19I host a radio show with you.
00:21You always put me on the spot.
00:22There's no kind of sound.
00:23I either sound or I don't.
00:24You don't say the formula to get there, but we all know what it means.
00:28The formula is be bad, get one the next year.
00:31You don't want to say be bad because you don't want to turn away listeners.
00:34You don't want to tell them it's going to be a bad year.
00:36You don't want to say the word tank.
00:38But that's the only way to get the good quarterback next year.
00:40I won't say the word tank because I don't want them to tank.
00:42If one of their QBs ends up being okay.
00:45You just expect them to be bad this year.
00:46Of course I don't expect them to be very good.
00:48I don't expect them to be very good.
00:49So it's be bad this year, get the quarterback next year.
00:51That's not my plan is to be bad.
00:53My plan is to see what these guys have.
00:55I don't want to go further into any sort of silliness.
00:58Going down this primrose path desperately for all these other QBs.
01:03I don't know any other way to be more clear than what I'm being.
01:08I don't understand you.
01:09I don't understand anybody's question about it.
01:11I don't understand you at all right now.
01:13Because I think we're saying the same thing.
01:15You just don't want our listeners to hear the words come out of your mouth.
01:20If I meant what I said, I'd have said it.
01:23You are trying to put meaning into my words.
01:25That's the thing.
01:26I think that for 14 years people have had plenty of time to figure out what I mean and what
01:31I don't.
01:31And I could say it or I don't need to say it.
01:33I don't understand why you're trying to interpret things I didn't say.
01:36Because if you're saying no to every quarterback that gets brought up.
01:40I'm not saying no to every quarterback that gets brought up.
01:42But you have.
01:43I haven't heard you say yes to anybody.
01:44Because I can't be realistic about any of these guys and any of those other quarterbacks.
01:47But they're all considered upgrades over what we've had.
01:50Of course they are.
01:51So you admit that they're upgrades.
01:53But if you're saying no to all of them, then it's got to be the draft.
01:57And if it's got to be the draft, then the Browns have to be bad.
02:01No.
02:01Can I explain myself when we come back?
02:03Yes, please do.
02:03So what exactly do you want me to explain?
02:09I want to know why Ken Carman says no to any kind of quarterback.
02:16I don't say no to any kind of quarterback.
02:18I mean, yeah, fine.
02:18If you guys wanted to trade number six for Jalen Hurts, fine.
02:22I just, if you guys really wanted to.
02:24But I just don't think you're going to get the type of payout that you want.
02:28I think that there's a lot around his football team that.
02:31I think there's a lot of things around his football team that helps him out.
02:35I don't think he would obviously have that this year.
02:37I just don't see him to be one of those Herculean guys that I give up top-end draft picks
02:42for in the NFL.
02:44I have respect for Jalen Hurts, but I guess I don't want to do that.
02:48Well, obviously, I want to let the record show, like, you know, part of any of these things, and this
02:53would be more kind of, this would be more towards your argument.
02:58All right.
02:58Is that you got all the guys that are already in there, you're paying them.
03:02So that's a big part of it, too.
03:04I don't care about money, though.
03:05Hurts is going to be, what, 50-plus million a year, whatever.
03:09So that's also part of it, too.
03:11But I guess I would ask, how many quarterbacks existing, like, you would, right now, you would take Josh Allen,
03:18Patrick Mahomes.
03:19You would take them no matter what they were making, right?
03:22Burrow, you would take no matter what he was making, right?
03:24Justin Herbert, would you?
03:26Yeah.
03:27I would say yes, right?
03:28But when we do this exercise, it kind of only sounds like Jared Goff.
03:33Would you take Jared Goff?
03:37For number six?
03:38I just mean, I'm just saying, you would take them and all the money they make, and then whatever you'd
03:44have to trade for them.
03:45Like, these would all be the substantial moves.
03:48Basically, where you were with Watson at the time, Deshaun Watson.
03:54Probably not for Jared Goff.
03:56You would?
03:57Okay, because I think Goff has been a top-ten quarterback now almost his entire career.
04:02I don't know.
04:02He's been really good.
04:03I do think it matters.
04:04I think, well, in Cleveland, obviously, because now you've been bitten by the Watson thing, right?
04:10Did you ask me about?
04:10The three first picks are, they are a different boat to me than $230 million.
04:16Money's money, and that's fine.
04:18Yeah.
04:18Although we're kind of in purgatory with that and kicking it down the road, too.
04:22But the three first-round picks were detrimental.
04:25And I don't know that, man, even for, oh, maybe Mahomes, maybe Allen.
04:33I don't know if Jared Goff.
04:34Well, it's definitely Mahomes, definitely Allen.
04:35You can't do three first rounds for Jared Goff.
04:38You can't.
04:38Right.
04:39But six overall.
04:40Yeah, you'd give six overall.
04:42All of that is to say.
04:44Those are proven starters.
04:45Every time I hear you shoot down the idea of all these different quarterbacks, and you keep saying all of
04:51these quarterbacks are going to be a waste of our time, but you don't think this year is going to
04:56be a waste of our time.
04:57And I'm curious about how that is when we're expected to be one of the worst teams.
05:01I've heard that before, and that's why I'm surprised, because I've answered this before.
05:03I go, I don't think that those guys, I want, I just don't think, none of, excuse me, it's not
05:08that I don't think I know now, none of them are going to, none of them were going to consider
05:13us.
05:13None of them were going to come here.
05:15It just wasn't going to happen.
05:16Now, that's an easy card to play.
05:18All right?
05:18But let me get to it, is that I got a young guy who does have a following.
05:24I don't know how great he is, but we'll find out.
05:26I got another guy who is a pariah for a lot of Browns fans who don't want to play him.
05:30But I think maybe Todd Munkin, if Shador can't get this figured out with this new offense with Todd Munkin,
05:37that maybe they would have to press the nuclear option and maybe Deshaun Watson, because I can't, I can't have
05:42him lying to the players.
05:43So you got him, and I guess I got Dylan Gabriel, but everybody knows what I think of Dylan Gabriel.
05:48So I have those, and it's not about tanking.
05:50It's not about losing.
05:52It's just about having a reset and catching your breath as a franchise and not going deeper into Hawk or
05:58deeper into any sort of silliness to try to fix this position.
06:01I got what I believe is going to be a nice draft class out there.
06:04I might as well either see whether or not this kid has it or his backup can resurrect himself, which
06:09the odds are against both, before I go and I make such a strong investment there.
06:14I'm sorry.
06:15That's just how I feel.
06:16So it's about playing for the 2027 draft class.
06:18Yes.
06:18That's just what it is.
06:19Yes.
06:20That's not a, listen, that's not a terrible plan, but I don't think we can, we can either lie to
06:26ourselves or act like that it'd be preferable that this current machination of our quarterback room, like, oh, we're going
06:36to see, hey, if one of them ends up being really good, then we're fine.
06:40We all just know that that's not likely the case.
06:42That it's likely you're just playing for 2027 quarterback.
06:45Yeah.
06:46Yeah, that's all.
06:47That's it?
06:48Now I can get off, I can get off the stand now?
06:50Yeah.
06:50Is that a problem?
06:51Like, you won't use, well, you're not reacting and you're not calling me silly, so now I think you're walking
06:55me into some sort of trap.
06:56You won't use the term tank, but that's what it is.
06:58I don't know.
06:59That's what you're doing.
06:59If I wanted them to tank, I'd say I'd want them to tank.
07:01I don't want them to tank.
07:03I want to let the chips fall where they may.
07:05You just know they're going to be bad.
07:07So they're going to be bad.
07:08So 2027, you'll get a top five draft pick, and that means you're going to get one of the quarterbacks.
07:14Yeah.
07:15Okay.
07:15But I don't want them to lose on purpose.
07:17If they end up going out there and winning nine games this year with Shedore Sanders, I'm going to go,
07:20okay, let's put a little bit more around them.
07:22Let's see where this goes now.
07:23But I don't think that they're going to be that good naturally.
07:26So if they're not that good naturally, then either A, I'll draft the guy at the top, B, I'll give
07:31up assets to draft the guy at the top because I think they can get some talent.
07:35I know not a lot of people are excited about this draft class, but I think that they can get
07:38some talent, some depth, and help out their offense this year.
07:41Yes.
07:41What were you going to say?
07:42Well, there's talent in every draft class.
07:44What we've been talking all along is whether there are the elite prospects.
07:48Of course, obviously, we know how drafts work.
07:50Guys that weren't considered elite prospects can become Hall of Famers.
07:53That's the magic of the NFL draft.
07:55That's why fans get so excited every year.
07:58But I would tell you that if you were to plot out the different ways that you would hope this
08:05goes, finishing in the middle next year, it would probably be worst case scenario because you didn't do things to
08:12make your team.
08:13You didn't go after some of the opportunities.
08:16Let's say you finish in the middle this year, but Malik Willis ends up being really good.
08:21Then you've lost that one.
08:23That would be one way that would be less preferable.
08:27Like finishing in the middle with Shador, but Malik Willis ends up being a top 10 quarterback.
08:32Well, then you lost because you didn't get in the draft next year.
08:35You didn't get the guy that was available at an all-time bargain basement rate, Malik Willis.
08:40And instead, Shador is just like the 17th best quarterback and you win nine games.
08:45That would be the worst case scenario of all these.
08:47Well, would it be the worst case scenario or are we just building around Shador after that and seeing where
08:52that goes?
08:52Because I don't think you can answer that question until 2027 and 2028.
08:56But if it takes you out of the mix of a top five draft pick the following year, that is
09:00a worse spot.
09:01Unless if he failed to take off after year two and he just was still like middling around, then yeah,
09:07that's where that thought is.
09:09Because then you'd come back with him, but he'd be like, what, competing or not?
09:12If you were like the 17th best quarterback.
09:15Well, if he won nine games as the 17th best quarterback with this team.
09:18With an elite defense.
09:19I would say, okay, but he still has a very bad offense.
09:22I would have to think that he would be doing some things that would do well where you go, okay,
09:26let's see what he does in year three.
09:28He did some things that were good last year, but if that takes you out of the mix of a
09:30top five quarterback.
09:32But there's risk to all this.
09:33That you just sat here and were like, yeah, that's what the Browns are doing.
09:36They're playing for a top five pick.
09:37There is risk to all this.
09:39I understand what they're going through and I understand the risk to this.
09:41I think that this is the less risky.
09:43That's why I'm going with this.
09:45I have a nice draft class coming up at 27.
09:48Todd McShay loves it.
09:48We'll play his audio coming up here in a little bit.
09:50But I just think like, hey, they've done everything they can at that quarterback position.
09:56Then they've tried to dig themselves out of it.
09:59I was, I'm not afraid to go after players.
10:04I'm not afraid of it.
10:06I just know what I don't want.
10:09I didn't want Deshaun Watson.
10:10That plays into this a little bit.
10:12And I think I've been vindicated here over the last four years about how much I didn't want him.
10:17And now I want to make the right decision at the position.
10:21And if I don't feel that the guy is the right position at the position, then I'm not going to
10:25advocate for him.
10:26So I got three guys that I have right now.
10:28I got a bunch of guys out there.
10:30I'm just going to stick with the three guys I have right now.
10:32That's what I'm going to do.
10:33A. Hefner says, do not let Ken Carman out of this.
10:36He said he wouldn't trade number 24 alone for Hurts.
10:38He's afraid of any quarterback outside of Shudor.
10:39I'm going to let him out of it.
10:41I think he has talked his way out of it.
10:42I'm going to let himself out of it.
10:43You can sit here and call me.
10:44I'm just trying to make a pragmatic excuse.
10:46Excuse me, a pragmatic reason.
10:48Just because you want an excuse to go out there and act like an idiot every single week and have
10:53hopes that aren't real, that's fine.
10:54Or because you just want to be entertained by somebody else, that's okay.
10:57I mean, I'm trying to have real conversations over here.
10:59So a quarterback that doesn't have a draft class, a team that's bringing back veterans going into this year because
11:05they want another run at it.
11:06They're going to go into the end of the season with either Tana McKee or Andy Dalton and nobody else.
11:11I mean, can we be real for a moment here?
11:13Can I step into reality?
11:15I mean, I know that a lot of us, what we do is semantics, but we can have some pie
11:18in the sky ideas.
11:19But let's call what it is.
11:20I can't just sit there and play tradie all day long.
11:23Hey, give us your great player for our garbage.
11:25That's stupid.
11:25No, that is, yes, I agree, that is stupid.
11:28I don't know who's on Twitter calling me afraid all you want.
11:31I'm trying to live in reality.
11:32They heard what I heard at the end of last week, which you said you would not trade Jalen Hurts.
11:37You would not trade the sixth overall pick for him.
11:39No, I guess I wouldn't.
11:40No.
11:41Well, now you wouldn't again.
11:42Okay, because you've kind of gone back and forth now.
11:44Okay.
11:45The official answer, I wouldn't.
11:48Okay, there you go.
11:49So that's another no.
11:50Fine.
11:52Do we have to check the transcript on this deposition?
11:55Well, no, now you've clarified.
11:57You've had time to think about it.
11:58All right.
11:58I got people who want to get in on here.
12:00So do you just want people to talk me out of being afraid, quote unquote?
12:03What do you want them to do?
12:04I'm just trying to establish, are there any quarterbacks you'd rather have than Shador
12:07Sanders?
12:10I mean.
12:11Who had one of the worst seasons a rookie has had?
12:14Who's had enough starts to have them in the last 15 years?
12:17I will find out what happens in OTAs.
12:19And if Deshaun Watson's better in OTAs, I guess I'll go on the record and say I'd rather
12:23have Deshaun Watson than Shador Sanders then.
12:25But I got to see what they do in OTAs.
12:27But all these other ones, it didn't seem to be like everybody wanted.
12:31Well, look at what they did with Sam Dunn.
12:33I go, where, since when are we the Seahawks?
12:34Not, see, now I'm getting agitated.
12:36I'm sorry.
12:36We don't want that.
12:37A lawyer would step in and go, hey, relax.
12:39That's how that would go.
12:40Keep going.
12:41No, not a lawyer.
12:42A lawyer wouldn't encourage me to do that.
12:43Just do it.
12:45Good lawyer anyway.
12:46If you're Lionel Hutz or something over there.
12:48So if I back myself into a corner enough or, I mean, I'm going to take the call here in
12:52a second.
12:53There's a lot of people saying I'm right.
12:54Like we don't, and it's not just the Shadorians like, like guys, like I don't think it was
12:59right to take a guy and then do what they did with how they did it.
13:02I thought it was silly the way they conducted training camp.
13:06There were some people who thought it was the right thing.
13:08I thought that it could work out, but you had to be, you had to be more organized.
13:12You had to have more, more opportunities.
13:14There were a couple of more opportunities just because of injury, like when Kenny Pickett
13:17went down after he took off running on the one Saturday practice, and then he had his
13:21hamstring problem.
13:22That was it for Kenny.
13:23And then you had a Dylan Gabriel problem, and then that was it.
13:25And so you were able to open up a couple of more opportunities for Shador Sanders, but
13:29with the way things went, and I just look at it how it is, and I go, why am I
13:32going to
13:33get myself invested in one of these also rancid?
13:37If I don't feel it, I don't feel it.
13:39Like 2027 is a chance for me.
13:41Really, 2026 is a chance for me to get really excited and to find somebody in the 2027 draft
13:48class that I actually like instead of, instead of this.
13:53I mean, I don't want to be, I'm not afraid.
13:56I don't want to act afraid.
13:57I don't want to be afraid.
13:58I hate talking about being afraid.
13:59I hate warning people, quote unquote.
14:01I hate doing any of that stuff.
14:03There is nothing, listen, I want to say, I think most Browns fans are in, I think most
14:08Browns fans are doing this thing.
14:10They're walking the tightrope of juggling two opinions when they really think about
14:15one.
14:15They're like, well, if Shador is good, yeah, you would always say that.
14:18You'd say, you'd say that with whoever was playing.
14:21Even if Dylan Gabriel, be like, well, Dylan Gabriel has a great season.
14:25I don't see it.
14:25I don't think it's going to happen.
14:26But if he has a great season, well, yeah, just playing it out.
14:29You'd hope that any player you currently have would emerge and become a top 10 quarterback.
14:34But what people are really saying, I think, is that we're going to, we're going to throw
14:38our hat in the 2027 draft.
14:41Yeah.
14:42Rather than try for Malik Willis, Kyler Murray, well, you know, Anthony Richardson and the
14:48list goes on.
14:49What's the new one?
14:49Who's the Philadelphia backup?
14:51Tanner McKee.
14:51Yeah.
14:51Tanner McKee.
14:52Yeah.
14:52See, when you can't, we can barely name him.
14:54Yeah.
14:54I admit it.
14:55That's why I don't really like to do it.
14:57Cause do you trust Todd McShay?
15:01He was on our show.
15:02Do you trust him?
15:02I think he's got a good, uh, he's been doing this long enough.
15:05Now he talks to enough NFL people.
15:07I think he obviously has credibility when he talks about the 2027 draft class.
15:10It does.
15:11It makes me feel like, Hey, I'm on the right track here.
15:14Several teams and certainly two.
15:17And I think three are making moves because of next year's class.
15:19So factor that in.
15:20If these quarterbacks start dropping in this year's class, it's because it's fine.
15:24We like them.
15:24But what, if he's there in the fourth, I'll take them.
15:26But if I'm going to spend a resource on a quarterback and it's going to be in 2027, because
15:31there's too many of those guys, that's the mindset.
15:33I think these quarterbacks are going to drop.
15:35I think they're going to go later than we expect because of, because of 2027, they'd
15:39rather just get a starter or a nickel corner or a number four receiver or a special teams,
15:45whatever it is, a rotational defensive lineman, then use a second, third round pick on a player
15:51on a quarterback this year when they, when they know next year that that same second
15:55or third round pick is going to get them a lot more value.
15:59That's the whole deal.
16:00That's what actual general managers in the NFL are talking about, because I've had these
16:03conversations with them over the course of the last month and a half.
16:07So I wanted to finish with that because I think it's important.
16:09And I've always said, I want transparency and that's the deal.
16:12And that, so when it starts to happen and they start to fall on the quarterbacks in this
16:16year's draft, when they're sitting there on night two and day three, that's the why behind it.
16:20I mean, it's easy to bring up that audio courtesy of McShay report.
16:23I mean, this, it's easy to bring up Arch Manning and just start the conversation and leave the
16:28conversation there.
16:29Cause I know that that's probably how the Browns are thinking.
16:31That's how ownership's thinking.
16:32That's how a lot of teams though, we're thinking about in the NFL, but there's, you know, there's
16:36the other possibilities of everybody else.
16:37You know, what is Dante Moore going to do to grow from last year to this year?
16:41He could be a very nice quarterback for somebody next year.
16:44CJ Carr at Notre Dame.
16:45People are excited about him.
16:46Jordan Maiava out at USC.
16:48People are excited about him.
16:49I mean, there's names out there.
16:51I want to see how the Norris sellers, I brought him up and all of a sudden his name has
16:55become
16:55mud to a lot of folks.
16:56It's like, Hey, bad offensive line play last year.
16:59A lot of injuries last year, a lot of problems with that offense last year.
17:02I want to see how he responds this season.
17:05And can he be somebody who you find?
17:08I don't know if he's around one prospect right now for the Cleveland Browns, where they
17:11might end up being, but I want to see what they could be.
17:14Because if I got Todd McShay saying that, it's like, why do I go and become more invested
17:20in any of these other guys?
17:22If I, if I just don't feel like it, because I think I'm just chasing something that isn't
17:26realistic.
17:26If I go in another direction with these guys, that's where I'm at on it.
17:30So that that's not exciting.
17:32And that makes me sound like I'm a great big killjoy in a wet blanket over it, but I can
17:36only tell you what the truth is.
17:38I don't mean to be mean spirited over it, but when we're, when we're discussing situations
17:42for a real football team that are completely unreal, yeah, I'm going to get annoyed by
17:48it.
17:48I'm going to get annoyed.
17:49So that's where I was at last week on it.
17:51And that's where I'll continue to be.
17:52As long as we continue to have these conversations, unless somebody emerges like I, fine.
17:57If we can get Ty Simpson on the show or on the station, I'd love to hear Ty Simpson.
18:01The first question I'd ask him is going, what, how can I trust you compared to the cavalcade
18:06of silliness that we've had?
18:08Not all silly, but mostly silly.
18:10The cavalcade of silliness that we've had over the last 26 years.
18:13How do I know that I, that you will put the end to that if we're going to really do
18:18this?
18:18Because everybody's telling me 2027 is going to be better than this year.
18:22How are you going to make everybody think that that's a silly thing in 10 years?
18:25That's what I want to know.
18:26Now, eventually, eventually with, with more and more weird scenarios kind of happening
18:32that how many games did Simpson start 15 college, 15, and we don't have any, do we have any
18:39examples or are they just so few and far between, or are there exactly zero examples of a guy
18:45just not starting many games in college and then being good right away in the NFL?
18:49It's just almost never happens.
18:50I can't even think of, I mean, if you go back at, well, I don't know if you go back
18:54and look
18:54at Brady, but Brady, didn't he have a year before he really had to take off and, and,
18:57and step in for Drew Brees or Drew Bledsoe?
18:59Yeah.
19:00Uh, he ended up starting, he had 15 games last year.
19:05This is Ty Simpson.
19:06So, and he's appeared in 31 games altogether, but I think he's only started 15 for his career.
19:11And how many, if, if Dante Moore would have come out, how many games did he had started?
19:15Well, now I got to look that up.
19:16But it was very few.
19:16It's kind of in the same boat.
19:18And that's what I'm saying.
19:18I do think there's a folder somewhere else.
19:21I do think there's going to be some examples of this and eventually a guy is going to break
19:25through and be good, but do you want to be the team to, are we the test case for something
19:30like that?
19:31Probably not.
19:32No.
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