- 29 minutes ago
ON RECORD SA UNANG HIRIT na pinag-usapan ang nangyaring konsultasyon ng impeachment court sa 'amici curiae' o friends of the court kahapon tungkol sa voting threshold.
Nakapanayam natin si Atty. Adonis Gabriel ng San Beda University College of Law para ipaliwanag at himayin ang mga puntong inilatag kahapon.
Panoorin ang video.
Nakapanayam natin si Atty. Adonis Gabriel ng San Beda University College of Law para ipaliwanag at himayin ang mga puntong inilatag kahapon.
Panoorin ang video.
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00:00Ang hinahanap ng lahat, prosecution at defense, katotohanan.
00:03At base sa katotohanan na yun, kailangan magdidesisyon ng ating mga senador
00:08kung ano ba yung karapat dapat na ipataw
00:11or kung ano ba ang kailangan nating ilatag na desisyon.
00:15This is not a numbers game.
00:17So, kailangan maintindihan ng ating mga manonood, Ivan,
00:21na yung mga amicus curing natin, hindi sila ang magdidesisyon.
00:25Kailangan nating ibalance yung mga standards of accountability
00:28at kailangan nating din ibalance yung rights ng impeachable officer.
00:34So, hindi ito black or white.
00:36Kailangan mabalansin natin yung magkabilang panig.
00:40On record.
00:41Sa unang hirin.
00:44Mga kasama po natin kay umaga,
00:46Attorney Adonis Gabriel, professor ng San Beda University College of Law.
00:50Professor, good morning.
00:51Magandang umaga, Ivan, at sa ating mga manonood.
00:54Attorney, we are on record now.
00:55So, very briefly, pakipaliwanag na po itong konsepto ng necessity
00:59at bakit kailangan ng Amici Curie sa impeachment trial
01:03at bakit sila ang mga napili.
01:05Ano ba itong Amici Curie?
01:06Yung Amici Curie, Ivan, or amicus curie,
01:09at ibig sabihin yan ay friends of court.
01:11Okay?
01:12Ang mga friends of court, silang tumutulong sa mga korte
01:15upang maintindihan yung mga technical na mga bagay.
01:19Sa naging pagdinig kahapon,
01:22ang tinukoy dito ay yung meaning ng two-thirds of all the members of the Senate.
01:27Okay.
01:27It's a technical term,
01:28kaya kinakailangan nila ng gabay
01:30at ng advice ng mga Amici Curie natin.
01:35At bakit sila napili?
01:37Ano ba ang credentials?
01:38How do they choose who becomes Amici Curie?
01:41Okay.
01:41Kung mapapansin natin iba,
01:43na yung mga piniling Amici Curie,
01:45yung mga dating chief justices ng ating kataas-taasang hukuman.
01:49So, ibig sabihin,
01:51alam nila kung paano pinapaliwanag ng Supreme,
01:54ng Korte Suprema natin,
01:56ang ating Constitution.
01:57Okay.
01:57So, sa tagal nila sa Korte Suprema,
02:00alam na nila kung ano ang espirito ng ating Constitution.
02:03Kumbaga, beyond question naman yung credibility at qualification.
02:07Tama, tama iba.
02:09Professor, please, walk us through the key takeaways.
02:11Alam natin, mahirap talaga dahil yung tinalakay,
02:14ang pakahaba.
02:16Pero yung key points sa mga posisyon nila,
02:18unahin natin dating chief justice David.
02:19Ang sabi niya,
02:20ang basis ng competition ng two-thirds
02:22bilang ng mga senador na kwalipikadong bumoto
02:26at hindi ang 24 na kasalukuyang membro.
02:29Your thoughts on this?
02:30Tama, Ivan.
02:31So, tinalakay ni chief justice David,
02:35yung espirito ng Constitution,
02:38bats sa kanyang pangunawa.
02:39Okay.
02:40So, ang palagay ni chief justice David,
02:43kailangan lamang dito na sumama sa pagbabotohan
02:46yung mga nakipag-cooperate doon sa discussion
02:52at hindi dapat isama yung mga senador na wala doon sa sesyon.
02:57So, kasi makikita rin natin sa ating Constitution, Ivan,
03:01yung right-to-do process.
03:02Okay.
03:02Kasama ng right-to-do process ay yung right to an impartial tribunal.
03:07So, ang impartial tribunal,
03:08ito yung husgado na dumidesisyon base sa ebidensya
03:12na inilatag sa kanya.
03:14So, kung hindi siya takilahok doon sa pagdinig,
03:17hindi niya madidesisyonan base sa ebidensya
03:20na inilatag sa pagdinig.
03:23Ito naman, dating chief justice Artemio Panganiban,
03:26sabi niya,
03:27hindi dapat tumigil sa abstract mathematics.
03:30In his words,
03:31we must look at the intent and purpose of the Constitution,
03:35the circumstances in which they operate
03:37and the goals they seek to achieve.
03:39Ano pong dapat maintindihan ng mga kababayan natin
03:41dito sa pahayag na ito?
03:42Okay.
03:43So, napaganda nung halimbawa ni justice Panganiban,
03:46na one small drop of water,
03:49pag pinatakan mo pa ng isang maliit na drop of water,
03:53nagiging isang malaking drop of water na yan.
03:56Okay.
03:56So, ang batas kasi, Ivan,
03:58hindi yan exact science.
03:59Hindi yan tulad ng mathematics na
04:02one plus one is two.
04:03So, sa kwan sa batas,
04:06talagang titignan mo kung ano yung espirito,
04:09hindi lamang sa letra ng Constitution,
04:11kung ano yung intensyon ng mga tao
04:14ng kanilang niratifay yung Constitution.
04:16At it also bears noting na
04:19dalawa ho sa amit si Kiri kahapon
04:22ay kasama sa framers.
04:23Sila ho yung kasama sa mga bubo,
04:25Chief Justice Dawide and Justice Ascuna.
04:29Ito naman,
04:30si dating Chief Justice Puno
04:32pointed out something sa language
04:34used in the Constitution.
04:35Sabi niya,
04:36a fraction and not a number.
04:38Two-thirds at hindi 16
04:40ang nakalagay sa Constitution.
04:41Kayo ba,
04:42as a professor,
04:43paano niyo ba tinuturo
04:44yung lenguahe ng Constitution
04:46o ng mga batas?
04:48Kayo mismo,
04:48anong basa niyo rito?
04:49Okay.
04:50May tanong kahapon yung mga
04:51senator judges natin
04:53kung perfecto ba
04:54yung Constitution.
04:55So,
04:56merong sinabi ang Supreme Court
04:58tungkol sa tanong na yan.
05:00Sabi ng Supreme Court,
05:01the Constitution,
05:02like any other human production,
05:04lacks perfection and perfectibility.
05:06Okay.
05:06Kasi ang mga gumawa ng Constitution,
05:08mga tao rin,
05:09may limitasyon.
05:11Kaya nga,
05:11sa mga pagkakataong ganito,
05:13yung mga gumawa ng Constitution,
05:16tinatanong yan,
05:17ano ba yung intent nyo
05:18nung pre-reparan ninyo
05:19yung Constitution.
05:21So, kaya,
05:23importante na malaman
05:25yung konteksto
05:25kung paano ba
05:27ginawa yung Constitution.
05:29Ito naman,
05:29finally,
05:30itong lone dissenting position
05:33ng mga damage security,
05:34Justice Haskuna.
05:35Mariin po kanyang posisyon eh.
05:37Ang sabi niya,
05:37all means all.
05:39At sinadjaraw yun,
05:40precisely,
05:41para pahirapan
05:42ng pag-convict
05:42ng dahil lang
05:43sa nakaraming bilang
05:44ng isang political majority.
05:46Halimbawa,
05:47anong basa nyo naman dito
05:48sa posisyon
05:49ni Justice Haskuna?
05:50Okay.
05:51So,
05:51mahalaga yung perspektibo
05:53ni Justice Haskuna
05:54Ivan dahil
05:55isa siya sa mga
05:56nagprepara
05:58noong
05:581987 Constitution.
06:01So,
06:01he participated
06:02in the drafting
06:03of the 1987 Constitution.
06:05So,
06:05alam niya
06:06yung konstekto
06:07noong Article 11
06:09ng Constitution.
06:10So,
06:11sa apat na maestrado natin,
06:13gumagamit sila
06:14ng mga schools of thought
06:15sa pag-interpret
06:16ng Constitution.
06:17So,
06:17sinabi ni Justice Puno,
06:20ano,
06:20andyan yung verbal ehis.
06:21Andyan din
06:22yung contextualize
06:23daw yung mga
06:24provisions
06:25ng ating Constitution
06:26and yung spirit
06:27ng Constitution.
06:29So,
06:29kung
06:29susumahin natin,
06:31Ivan,
06:32yung opinion
06:32ni
06:33Retard Justice
06:34Haskuna,
06:35ginamit nga
06:36yung tatlong
06:37schools of thought
06:37para maipaliwanag
06:39yung ibig sabihin
06:40ng
06:41Paragraph 6,
06:42Article 11,
06:43Section 3
06:44ng ating Constitution.
06:45Ano ba
06:46ang nakalagay
06:47sa Constitution?
06:48All its members
06:49verbal ehis.
06:51Ano ba yung
06:52spirito ng
06:53Constitution
06:53para bigyan
06:55ng diin
06:56na yung mga
06:57impeachable,
06:57most of the
06:58impeachable officers
06:59are elected officers
07:00and they cannot
07:01easily be removed
07:02from office
07:03because of
07:03changing
07:04party dynamics.
07:06And pangatlo,
07:08yung
07:09ibang provision
07:10ng Constitution,
07:11so,
07:11nirelate niya
07:12yung Section 3
07:13ng Article 11
07:14sa mga ibang
07:14provision ng Constitution
07:16para masuma
07:17kung ano ba talaga
07:18ang ibig sabihin
07:19ng provision na ito.
07:21All said,
07:22attorney,
07:22ang umiikot na
07:23reaction kahapon,
07:253-1.
07:26Uy, 3-1,
07:26panalo,
07:27yung lowering of
07:27threshold.
07:28Tama ba ang pagbasa
07:29ito sa mga
07:30naging diskusyon
07:30kahapon?
07:31May panalo,
07:32may talo ba
07:32dito kahapon?
07:34Hindi ganun yung
07:35sa hearing natin
07:36kahapon,
07:37Ivan,
07:37this is not
07:38a numbers game.
07:39Okay.
07:39So,
07:40kailangan
07:41maintindihan
07:41ng ating mga
07:42manonood,
07:42Ivan,
07:43na yung
07:43mga amicus
07:44curing natin,
07:45hindi sila
07:46ang magdidesisyon.
07:47So,
07:48pinunto ng ating
07:49mga amici curing kahapon
07:50na senado,
07:52kayo ang may puder,
07:54kayo ang inatasan
07:55ng Constitution
07:55na magdesisyon.
07:57Yung mga amici curing
07:58natin, Ivan,
07:59sila ay gagabay
08:00lamang
08:00sa ating mga
08:01center judges
08:02sa kanilang
08:03pagdidesisyon.
08:04So,
08:05hindi ito
08:06bilangan,
08:063-1,
08:07talo yung
08:08kabila,
08:08panalo yung
08:09kabila.
08:09So,
08:10kaya kailangan
08:11maintindihan
08:11ng ating mga
08:12manonood,
08:13ano ba yung
08:13sinabi
08:14ng bawat isa
08:15sa mga
08:15amicus curing
08:16natin,
08:17doon natin
08:18himayin,
08:18at kung ano
08:19yung mas
08:19katanggap-tanggap
08:20sa kanila,
08:21base sa kanilang
08:22pangunawa.
08:23Ultimately,
08:23nasa mga senador yun,
08:24kung paano nila
08:25tinimbang
08:25yung sinabi ng tatlo.
08:27Pero of course,
08:28you have the weight
08:28of three justices
08:29against one,
08:30possibly kaya
08:32masway sila
08:32one way or the other
08:33doon sa mga
08:35binahagi kahapon?
08:36Okay.
08:37Yun ang objective
08:38ng pagdalo
08:39ng ating
08:40mga amici curing
08:40Ivan,
08:41para masuri
08:43ng ating mga
08:44senador judges
08:44yung kanilang
08:45initial position.
08:46Kasi kung
08:47yung mga senador judges
08:48naman natin
08:49ay fixed na
08:50doon sa kanilang
08:51posisyon,
08:52naging baliwala
08:53yung pagdinig
08:54natin kahapon.
08:55So, magiging
08:56meaningful yung
08:57pagdalo ng
08:57ating mga amici curing
08:59kahapon
08:59kung yung mga
09:00senador judges
09:01natin,
09:02susuriin nila
09:03isa-isa
09:03lahat ng posisyon,
09:05hindi basis
09:06sa kung ilan
09:07yung nagsabi
09:07sa isang posisyon
09:09at kung ilan
09:10yung nagsabi
09:11sa kabilang posisyon.
09:12Suriin nila
09:13isa-isa
09:13at kung ito ba
09:14ay talagang
09:16basis sa kanilang
09:17konsensya
09:18ay yung tamang
09:19posisyon.
09:20Speaking of
09:21sway,
09:21gusto ko i-raise
09:22yung punto
09:23ni Justice
09:23Panganiban.
09:24Basically,
09:25yung sinabi niya
09:25attorney,
09:26ano ba
09:26ang hinahanap
09:27ng mga mamamayan
09:27sa inyo?
09:28Hindi kayo mga
09:29hukom,
09:30huwag kayo magpaka-abugado,
09:32huwag magpakaligal
09:32at magkus,
09:33gawin ang trabaho
09:34bilang mamabatas
09:34at lagi isaalang-alang
09:36truth and fairness.
09:37Sa kabilang banda,
09:39babalansin ko ito
09:40sa pahayag naman
09:41ni Justice
09:42Saskuna
09:42na sadyang
09:43mas mataas daw
09:44ang standard
09:44sa pag-convict
09:45o pag-acquit
09:46sa isang impeachment court
09:48dahil maaaring
09:49mabaliwala
09:49ng mga mababatas
09:50ang boto
09:51ng nakararami
09:52o di kayo maging
09:52kasangkapan lang
09:54impeachment
09:54para patalsikin
09:55o pigilan yung
09:56isang kalaban
09:57sa politika.
09:57Your thoughts
09:58on these two
09:59ano ba,
10:00sabihin na nating
10:01advice
10:01ng dalawang
10:02mga dating
10:03maestrado.
10:03Sa ating gobyerno,
10:04ibang talaga
10:05merong balancing act
10:06dyan.
10:07Kailangan natin
10:08ibalance
10:09yung mga
10:10standards of
10:11accountability
10:11at kailangan natin
10:13din ibalance
10:13yung rights
10:14ng impeachable
10:16officer.
10:17So,
10:18hindi ito
10:18black or white.
10:19Kailangan
10:20mabalansin natin
10:21yung magkabilang
10:22panig.
10:23So,
10:23merong tinakda
10:24ang ating
10:25saligang batas
10:25ng mga
10:26standards
10:26kung paano
10:27natin
10:27i-account
10:28yung ating
10:28mga
10:29impeachable
10:30officers.
10:30Pero,
10:31yung mga
10:32impeachable
10:32officers din
10:33naman natin
10:33iban,
10:34may mga
10:34constitutional
10:35rights
10:35yan.
10:36Yes.
10:36Just like
10:37everyone else.
10:37Yes.
10:38Kung
10:39ipupush
10:40natin
10:40yung
10:40accountability
10:41to the
10:41extent
10:42na
10:42bababili
10:43yung
10:43constitutional
10:45rights
10:45ng ating
10:45mga
10:46impeachable
10:46officers,
10:47so,
10:47the
10:47constitution
10:48failed.
10:49Because the
10:49constitution
10:51ensures
10:51a proper
10:52balance
10:53between
10:53the
10:55standards
10:56of
10:56accountability
10:56and the
10:57constitutional
10:57rights
10:58of the
10:59public
10:59officers.
11:00So,
11:00hindi
11:01natin
11:01kailangang
11:01baliwalain
11:02yung mga
11:03constitutional
11:04rights
11:04ng ating
11:05mga
11:05impeachable
11:06officers
11:07just because
11:07we want
11:08them to
11:08be
11:09accountable.
11:10Pero,
11:11tama din
11:11naman
11:11siguro yung
11:12punto ni
11:12Justice
11:13Panganiban
11:13na gusto
11:15naming
11:15maintindihan,
11:16gusto
11:16namin,
11:17ang bottom
11:18line
11:18natin
11:18dito,
11:19mahanap
11:19ang
11:19katotohanan
11:20at
11:20maging
11:20patas
11:21sa lahat,
11:22sa
11:23bayanan
11:24at
11:24ganyan din
11:24siyempre
11:25sa
11:25akusado.
11:25Tama,
11:26Iban,
11:26ang
11:27hinahanap
11:27ng
11:27lahat,
11:28prosecution
11:28at
11:29defense,
11:29katotohanan.
11:30At
11:31base sa
11:31katotohanan
11:32na yon,
11:33kailangan
11:33magdidesisyon
11:34ng ating
11:34mga
11:34senador
11:35kung ano
11:36ba yung
11:36karapat
11:36dapat
11:37na
11:37ipataw
11:38o kung
11:39ano
11:39ba
11:40ang
11:40kailangan
11:40nating
11:41ilatag
11:41na
11:42desisyon.
11:42So,
11:43katotohanan
11:44base sa
11:44ebidensya
11:45at base
11:46sa
11:46ebidensya
11:46nito,
11:47kailangan
11:47nating
11:47ipataw
11:48ang
11:48justisya.
11:49What's
11:50next from
11:50here on
11:51turning?
11:51What can
11:52the public
11:52expect
11:53and what
11:53should
11:54the public
11:54watch out
11:55for?
11:55Okay,
11:56so,
11:56may
11:56nakaschedule
11:57iba,
11:58nagbabotohan
11:58yung
11:59ating
11:59mga
11:59senador
11:59judges
12:00on
12:00September
12:0023,
12:02kung
12:02kanila
12:02bang
12:03i-reverse
12:04o kanilang
12:05isusustain
12:06yung
12:06naunang
12:07desisyon
12:07ng ating
12:08presiding
12:09judge,
12:09si
12:10Senador
12:10Escudero.
12:11So,
12:12base
12:12doon
12:13sa
12:13dynamics
12:15kahapon
12:15iban,
12:16nakikita
12:17ko
12:17na
12:18magiging
12:20mataas
12:21yung
12:21possibility
12:22na
12:23ma-reverse
12:23yung
12:23desisyon
12:24ni
12:25presiding
12:26judge
12:26Escudero.
12:28Unang-una,
12:29nakita
12:30natin
12:30yung
12:32sentimiento
12:33ng ating
12:33mga
12:33tao.
12:34Nakita
12:35rin
12:35naman
12:35natin
12:35yung
12:36mga
12:36posisyon
12:37ng
12:37ating
12:38mga
12:38dating
12:38Supreme
12:39Court
12:39Justices.
12:40So,
12:40naipaliwanag
12:41nila.
12:42So,
12:42base
12:42dito,
12:43Ivan,
12:44in-expect
12:44ko
12:44na
12:45magkakaroon
12:46ng
12:47panibagong
12:47posisyon
12:48ang Senado
12:49bilang
12:49impeachment
12:50court.
12:50So,
12:51mismong
12:51ang
12:52presiding
12:52officer,
12:52sa tingin mo,
12:53magbabago
12:53ng posisyon?
12:54Okay.
12:55May kita
12:55mo yung
12:56statement
12:56ni
12:57Senator
12:58Chises
12:58Escudero
12:59kahapon
12:59Ivan.
13:00Sabi
13:01niya,
13:01kaya
13:02niya
13:02ginawa
13:02yung
13:02desisyon
13:03to push
13:03the issue
13:04to the
13:04Supreme
13:04Court.
13:05So,
13:06and
13:06sinabi
13:07niya,
13:07hindi
13:07ito
13:07katigasan
13:08ng
13:08ulo.
13:09So,
13:10parang
13:10sinasabi
13:10niya
13:10na
13:11ready
13:12siyang
13:12makinig.
13:13At
13:13sinabi
13:14niya
13:14na
13:14kung
13:14i-reconsider
13:16ko
13:16man
13:16yung
13:16position
13:17ko,
13:18base
13:18yun
13:19doon
13:19sa
13:19pangunawa
13:20niya
13:20sa
13:21Saligang
13:21Batas.
13:23Okay.
13:24So,
13:24mga kapuso,
13:25ito,
13:25bantayan natin
13:26na magiging boto.
13:27Ang sinabi
13:28kahapon ni
13:28presiding
13:29officer
13:30Escudero,
13:30tumalino kami.
13:31Sana po tumalino
13:32tayo pare-pareho
13:33dahil sa
13:34narinig
13:35natin kahapon.
13:36Attorney
13:36Adonis
13:36Gambiel
13:37ng Sanbeda
13:38University
13:38College of Law,
13:39sir.
13:39Thank you
13:40very much.
13:40Maraming salamat
13:41Ivan.
13:41Maraming salamat
13:42po.
13:42Ang mga
13:43issue
13:43pinag-uusapan,
13:44lilinawin
13:44at hihimayin
13:45natin yan
13:45on record
13:46sa unang
13:47hirit.
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