- 2 days ago
ON RECORD SA UNANG HIRIT na pinag-usapan ang Day 7 ng impeachment trial ni Vice President Sara Duterte. Ipinaliwanag sa atin ni Prof. Froilan Calilung ng University of Sto. Tomas ang implikasyon ng pagpayag ng impeachment court sa pagpapa-subpoena sa bank records ni VP Sara at asawang Atty. Mans Carpio.
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00:00I think this is a big win for the prosecution.
00:02It works both ways.
00:04Hindi na nga ngahulugan na porket ito ay pinabuksan.
00:07Hindi na nga ngahulugan na meron na talagang deal.
00:15Maraming salamat sa summary, Susan.
00:17At sa pagpapatuloy nga po ng impeachment trial
00:19tila nagkakainitan na ang ibang mga senador.
00:23Nakakasunod pa kaya mga kapuso natin
00:25o nakakasunod pa kaya mga kapuso natin
00:27sa itinatakbo ng impeachment court.
00:30Maganda na rin po yung daloy ng impeachment.
00:34Mas okay na po kasi
00:35natuloy na po talaga yung impeachment.
00:39Bawawa naman yung ibang nadatagan na
00:41problema na nila na si
00:43subisyo na kaya na matapos na lang.
00:45Napaka-at-professional nila.
00:47Kumuha sila ng maraming patas na
00:49mas makapagpaayos
00:51sa mga bansak natin kaysa yung
00:53mga personal issues nila.
00:56Mapakita sa atin na
00:57maging transparent tayo pa ng
00:58mas pagkakaniwalaan tayo ng mga tao.
01:02Kung wala naman tinatago,
01:03mas hindi po saan.
01:08Yan ang ating pag-uusapan,
01:10lilinawin at hihimayin.
01:12On record sa unang hirin.
01:16At makakasama po natin muli ngayong umaga,
01:18Professor Froylan Calilong,
01:19political analyst mula sa University of Santo Tomas.
01:23Professor, welcome back.
01:24Good morning.
01:26Yes, good morning, Ivan.
01:27Good morning din po sa lahat ng ating mga tagasubaybay.
01:30Thank you for having me again.
01:31We are on record now, Professor.
01:33Pinakamalaking malita nga po
01:34sa impeachment trial kahapon
01:36ang pagpabor ng impeachment court
01:37sa pagsumpina sa peso-denominated bank
01:40at tax records si VP Sara
01:41at asawa niyang si Atty. Man Scarpio.
01:44Pati yung mga peso-denominated accounts
01:46ng 19 corporate entities
01:47na iniugnay kay VP Sara.
01:49Ano po magiging implication nito sa kaso?
01:52Pakipaliwanag nga po sa ating mga manonood,
01:54anong ibig sabihin nito?
01:55And is this what you would consider
01:56a win for the prosecution?
01:59Well, definitely, I think this is a big win
02:02for the prosecution.
02:04Primarily because this will really open the lid
02:07particularly doon sa second article
02:10nung ating impeachment
02:11which is, of course,
02:13patungkol doon sa tinatawag nating
02:15unexplained wealth.
02:17So, kinakailangan kasi nila talaga itong gawin
02:19para talaga ma-establish yung baseline.
02:22Kaya kung titignan natin,
02:23yes, the defense is actually arguing
02:25bakit daw kailangan pang isama yung 2007?
02:30Bakit hindi yung 2022 lang
02:32nung siya ay vice president?
02:33Pero palinaw ang naging posisyon dito
02:35ng prosecution
02:36that they really would want to establish
02:38yung baseline.
02:39So, kinakailangan makuha yung
02:40historical referencing
02:41para maipakita nga
02:43yung gradual increase
02:44ng kanilang wealth.
02:46And then, kung meron masasabi dito
02:48yung parang manifestation
02:50ng parang biglaang paglobo,
02:52maaaring ito yung titignan
02:54ng ating prosecution panel.
02:56Pero we need to understand also
02:58that itong victory naman ito
03:00is a victory in a sense
03:03dahil
03:04doon lamang sa sense na
03:06inayaan ng korte
03:08ng impeachment court
03:10or impeachment tribunal
03:11na buksan yung kanyang records
03:13particularly yung kanyang
03:15peso records.
03:16Pero hindi naman nangangahulugan ito
03:18na talagang masasabi natin
03:21na meron talagang
03:22na meron na talaga
03:23kaagad guilt.
03:25Mahalaga lang talaga
03:26pong makita ito.
03:27So, the defense can still
03:28try to come up
03:29with their own objections.
03:30They could even argue
03:33regarding the admissibility
03:34of this records deal.
03:36Or they may even go
03:37to the Supreme Court
03:38to actually contest
03:40this ruling
03:41of the Senate tribunal.
03:43Naging mainit nga po
03:44yung debate kahapon
03:45bago umabot nyo
03:46sa decision na yan
03:47lalo na doon
03:48sa usapin ng confidentiality.
03:50May magkasalungot na posisyon
03:51as expected.
03:53Sabi ng Depensa
03:53kalakip ng due process
03:55na ang bawat nasasakdal
03:56ay maprotektahan
03:57ng mga batas.
03:58Ang dagdag pa nila
03:59if we issue a subpina
04:00we are compelling officials
04:02to violate the law.
04:04E ang sabi naman ng prosecution
04:05kailangan daw makita
04:06ang big picture
04:07yung buong larawan
04:08ang kinita ng VP
04:09at ang subpina
04:10ang tayong paraan
04:11para makuha yung datos na yan.
04:12In the words of Council
04:13kung Chell Jokno
04:15confidentiality
04:16cannot trump
04:17accountability.
04:18Your take on these
04:19positions, Professor?
04:21Well, kasi kung titignan mo
04:23natin ni Van
04:23nakasaad naman talaga
04:25dito sa bank secrecy
04:26doon
04:26Article Republic Act 1405
04:29that the secrecy
04:31actually is not applicable
04:33especially in cases
04:34involving impeachment.
04:35So definitely
04:36mas nananay talaga rito
04:38yung accountability.
04:39And I think
04:40tama yung position
04:41dito ng prosecution.
04:43Yes,
04:44mayroon tayong tinitignan
04:45dito talaga
04:46na due process
04:47pero kinakailangan din
04:48natin sigurong
04:49analisahin
04:49na yung
04:50parte rin naman
04:51ng due process
04:52ay yung paglalatag
04:53ng mga tamong
04:54ebidensya.
04:55And I think
04:55primarily
04:56ito yung
04:57gusto talagang
04:58tukuyin dito
04:59ng ating
05:00prosecution.
05:02But I hope
05:03that
05:03hindi talaga siya
05:05yung tipong
05:06magiging
05:06fishing expedition
05:08na pumaga
05:09they will
05:09blow things
05:10out of proportion
05:11na pagkakalintulan
05:13nung nangyari
05:14doon sa
05:14kaso
05:15ng dating
05:16Chief Justice
05:17Renata Corona.
05:18And I hope
05:19that the defense
05:20will also try to
05:21pump up with
05:22good points
05:23regarding
05:24yung admissibility
05:25of this
05:26particular documents
05:27and kung
05:28anil lamang
05:29talaga rito
05:30yung pupwedeng
05:30tignan.
05:31And I think
05:31it's also
05:32a good thing
05:32that the
05:33Senate Tribunal
05:34particularly
05:35the presiding
05:36officer
05:36naggawa na siya
05:37ng ruling
05:38regarding this
05:39na in-exclude
05:40nga yung
05:41offshore accounts
05:42ng ating
05:42kalamang Pangulo
05:43ngayon din naman
05:44na yung pagbubukas
05:45ng kanyang
05:46AMLOC records
05:46will be done
05:47in private.
05:48And I think
05:48this is a good
05:49thing
05:50para kahit paano
05:51may pakita rin
05:52naman
05:52yung pagprotekta
05:54at yung pagkilala
05:55doon sa karapatan
05:55ng nasasakban.
05:56At saka
05:57sa pananaw po
05:57siguro
05:58ng ordinaryong tao
05:59the harder
05:59that the defense
06:00tries to prevent
06:01the exposure
06:04or yung paglalabas
06:05itong mga
06:06datos sa ito
06:07the stronger
06:08the suspicion
06:09becomes
06:09na baka may tinatago.
06:11Yes,
06:12tapa po yun.
06:13I agree with that.
06:14Kaya nga
06:14it really works
06:15both ways.
06:16Hindi na nga
06:16ngahulugan
06:17na porket ito
06:18ay pinapuksan
06:18hindi na nga
06:19ngahulugan
06:19na meron
06:19na talagang guilt.
06:21Maari pa nga
06:22itong magamit
06:23ng depensa
06:23para sabihin
06:24na talagang
06:25hindi naging
06:26disproportionate
06:27yung paglaki
06:28o paglago
06:29ng yaman
06:29ng ating
06:29kalwang
06:30Pangulo
06:30over the years
06:31kasi unang-una
06:32matagal din naman
06:33na panahon
06:33ang tinitignan
06:36natin dito.
06:37Pangalawa,
06:38she has
06:39the means
06:40to do so
06:41presumably
06:42because
06:42pareho silang
06:43mag-asawa
06:43ay
06:45abogado.
06:46So maari
06:47naman talaga
06:48na maipakita
06:48rin nila
06:49na meron
06:49talagang
06:50ganitong
06:50paglago
06:50ng kanilang
06:51yaman.
06:52Mahalaga rin
06:52siguro
06:53natignan
06:53natin
06:53yung
06:542007
06:54because
06:55I believe
06:55this is
06:55the year
06:56that they
06:56got
06:56married
06:57and
06:57yung principle
06:58of
06:58conjugality
06:59dito
06:59na talaga
06:59papasok.
07:00Professor,
07:01I need to
07:01digress a bit
07:02and ask
07:02what you
07:02think of
07:03the
07:03personalities
07:03making
07:04the
07:04arguments.
07:05On the
07:05one hand,
07:06you have
07:07Kongchel,
07:08very calm,
07:08very clinical,
07:09and then you
07:10have the
07:10Cayetano siblings,
07:11very passionate
07:12and animated.
07:13Kahapon po,
07:14si Senator Pia
07:14tried to
07:15exude
07:15a calmer
07:16demeanor
07:17and even
07:18quick to
07:19add na
07:19fair siya,
07:20wala siyang
07:20kinikilingan.
07:21Pero ito
07:22mga ganitong
07:22balitaktakan,
07:23gano'ng
07:24bakahalaga
07:24ang personalities
07:27trial like this?
07:28Yes,
07:29yes,
07:29I think
07:30very,
07:30very important
07:31because this
07:31really forms
07:32part of the
07:33sidelines
07:33sa nga
07:35pagdilig na ito.
07:36Yung personalities
07:37po kasi,
07:38especially those
07:38na involved
07:39dito,
07:40the legal
07:40counsel,
07:42senator
07:42judges,
07:43they really
07:43form a
07:44very,
07:45very integral
07:45part
07:46nito
07:46proceeding
07:46na ito.
07:47Kasi hindi
07:47lang naman tayo
07:48nakasentro
07:49doon sa
07:49mga legal
07:51terminologies
07:51or sa mga
07:52legal
07:52technicalities
07:53or sa mga
07:53legal arguments.
07:54Pero tinitignan
07:55na natin
07:55yung demeanor
07:56ng bawat isa
07:57because this
07:58is an important
07:59mechanism
07:59or an important
08:00way para
08:01makita natin
08:02ano ba yung
08:03positioning
08:03ng bawat isa.
08:04So para sa
08:05mga legal
08:06purists,
08:07siguro yung
08:08pagsasalita
08:09ni Shell
08:09I think
08:11it's a good
08:13thing for them
08:14dahil nga
08:14it's very
08:15composed
08:16at meron
08:16talaga siyang
08:17sinasabi
08:18na talagang
08:18technically
08:19aligned with
08:20legal
08:21precepts.
08:22Yun namang
08:22sa mga
08:23kayatanos,
08:23I think it
08:24appeals more
08:25to the
08:25viewing
08:25public
08:26because it's
08:27very emotional
08:27and very
08:28passionate.
08:29So both
08:30ways
08:30or both
08:31of them
08:31actually will
08:32capture a
08:33particular
08:33target
08:34audience
08:35and I think
08:36this is
08:36very important
08:37in this
08:38impeachment
08:38proceeding
08:39kasi alam
08:39naman natin
08:40that the
08:41public is
08:41not isolated
08:42from this
08:43particular
08:44proceeding
08:45at mahalaga
08:46rin naman
08:46yung public
08:46opinion
08:47na nabubuo
08:48natin
08:48along the
08:48line.
08:49Speaking of
08:50sidebars,
08:51Professor,
08:51marami na nga
08:52yung nangyayari
08:52sa impeachment
08:53trial.
08:54Marami rin
08:54ang nangyayari
08:55off the
08:56impeachment
08:56court,
08:57ika nga,
08:57with senators
08:58judges
08:59having their
09:00own sub
09:01battles,
09:02if I may use
09:02the word,
09:03among themselves.
09:04Pinakamainit
09:05nga dyan,
09:05yung palitan
09:05akusasyon
09:06ni Senador
09:06Cayetano,
09:07Senador
09:07Laxon,
09:08at Senador
09:08Tulfo.
09:09How is this
09:10affecting the
09:10trial at
09:11ano kaya
09:11implication
09:12nito na
09:12among the
09:13senator
09:13judges
09:13may ganyang
09:14friction?
09:16Well,
09:17may malaking
09:18epekto.
09:19Unang-una,
09:20syempre,
09:21I think
09:22itong klase
09:24na ganitong
09:24pagdinig,
09:25which is
09:25really a
09:26high-stakes
09:26trial
09:27proceeding,
09:28I think
09:29should be
09:29insulated
09:30from their
09:31personal
09:32differences
09:33primarily.
09:33Kasi I
09:34believe
09:34meron
09:35naman
09:35talagang
09:35proper
09:36venue
09:36and
09:36proper
09:37forum
09:37for
09:37that.
09:38And
09:38alam
09:39naman
09:39natin
09:40medyo
09:41limitado
09:41rin yung
09:41oras
09:42pagdating
09:42dito
09:43sa
09:43impeachment
09:44and I
09:44think
09:45hindi
09:45dapat
09:46siya
09:46nagagamit
09:47for
09:47settling
09:48of
09:48these
09:48personal
09:49differences
09:49or
09:50grandstanding.
09:50I
09:50think
09:51we
09:51really
09:51need
09:51to
09:51remain
09:52focused
09:52on
09:53what
09:53the
09:53impeachment
09:54is
09:54all
09:54about.
09:55I
09:55believe
09:55that
09:55there's
09:56really
09:56a
09:56proper
09:56venue
09:57for
09:57this.
09:57Pero
09:58kasi
09:58ang
09:58mahalaga
09:58din
09:59natin
09:59tignan
09:59dito
09:59dahil
10:01nakafocus
10:02dito
10:02yung
10:02sambayanan
10:03maaaring
10:04nagagamit
10:04ito
10:05ng parehong
10:05kampo
10:06para talaga
10:07ilatag
10:07yung
10:07kanilang
10:08mga
10:08opinion
10:08at
10:09yung
10:09kanilang
10:09mga
10:10pag-atake
10:10sa
10:10bawat
10:11isa
10:11in order
10:12for
10:12them
10:12to
10:12be
10:13able
10:13to
10:13score
10:14some
10:15kind
10:15of
10:15points
10:15in
10:16relation
10:17or
10:17within
10:18the
10:18purview
10:18of
10:18public
10:19perception.
10:20And I think
10:20to them
10:21ito
10:21nga yung
10:21ginagamit
10:22nilang
10:22avenue
10:23or
10:23paraan
10:25para
10:25ipakita
10:25ito.
10:26Although
10:26I believe
10:27it's not
10:28supposed
10:28to be
10:28the
10:28case.
10:30Prof,
10:30there is
10:31also
10:31this
10:32looming
10:32possibility.
10:33We
10:33don't
10:33know
10:33how
10:33likely
10:34pero
10:34a
10:34possibility
10:35nonetheless.
10:36Buhay
10:36yung
10:37posibilidad
10:37na
10:38magkakaroon
10:39pa
10:39ng
10:39Senator
10:40judges
10:40ang
10:40makakasuhan
10:41and
10:41technically
10:41posibleng
10:42maaresto.
10:43Senator
10:43Cayetano
10:44gustong
10:44ipakulong
10:45ni
10:45Senator
10:45Ping
10:45over
10:46ghost
10:46projects
10:47daw
10:47yung
10:47tagig.
10:48Senator
10:48Padilla
10:48may
10:49obstruction
10:49of
10:49justice
10:50na
10:50kinakaharap.
10:51How do
10:51you think
10:51would
10:52this
10:52scenario
10:52play out?
10:54Well,
10:56mahalaga
10:56nakimakita
10:57natin
10:57unang-una
10:58kung ano
10:58yung
10:59klase
10:59ng
10:59mga
10:59paso
11:00na
11:00isasampan.
11:01Kasi
11:01kung
11:01halimbawa
11:02simple
11:02obstruction
11:03of
11:03justice
11:03and
11:05if it
11:05will
11:05not
11:10immunity
11:10from
11:11suit
11:11na
11:13kinikilala
11:13ng
11:13ating
11:14saligang
11:14batas.
11:14Pero
11:15kung
11:15halimbawa
11:15magbibigat
11:16na
11:16kaso
11:16kagaya
11:17ng
11:17plunder
11:17maaaring
11:18mauwi
11:19ito
11:19sa
11:19pag-aresto
11:20kagaya
11:20na
11:20nangyari
11:21kaya
11:21Senator
11:21Dante
11:21Marcoleta
11:22gano'n
11:22kaya
11:23Senator
11:23Jim
11:23Guestrada.
11:24So
11:24we
11:24need
11:24to
11:24really
11:25look
11:25at
11:25the
11:25cases
11:25that
11:26are
11:26going
11:26to
11:26be
11:27filed.
11:27And
11:28I
11:28think
11:28it's
11:29also
11:29imperative
11:29na
11:30tignan
11:31natin
11:40doon
11:40sa
11:40SEA
11:40Games.
11:41And
11:42then
11:42at
11:42the
11:42same
11:42time
11:43ito
11:43nga
11:43mayroon
11:43na
11:44mga
11:44gustong
11:45palutangin
11:45sa
11:45Senator
11:46Pink
11:46Laxon.
11:47And
11:47nakikita
11:48natin
11:48dito
11:49na
11:50masigasig
11:50talaga
11:51and
11:51very
11:51aggressive
11:51yung
11:52nandito
11:53sa
11:53prosecution
11:53presumably
11:54because
11:55they
11:55know
11:55that
11:56the
11:56administration
11:57will
11:57actually
11:58back
11:58them
11:58up.
11:59And
11:59they
11:59know
11:59that
11:59Senator
12:00Alan
12:00Peter
12:00Quetano
12:01is
12:01very
12:01vocal
12:02in
12:02this
12:02impeachment
12:02trial.
12:03And
12:03so
12:10lay out
12:10I
12:10really
12:11hope
12:11that
12:12both
12:13camps
12:13will
12:14remain
12:15glued
12:16to what
12:16their
12:17purpose
12:17and
12:18their
12:18intent
12:18is
12:19why
12:19they
12:19are
12:19here
12:20in
12:20the
12:20first
12:20place
12:20in
12:21the
12:21impeachment
12:22trial.
12:22Siguro
12:22mahalaga
12:23na
12:23matapos
12:23muna
12:24ito
12:24before
12:24anything
12:25else.
12:25Nandito
12:26pa rin
12:26tayo
12:26sa
12:27phase
12:27ng
12:28trial
12:28na
12:28nakaka-alienate
12:29sa
12:30ordinary
12:30yung
12:30tao.
12:31Hindi
12:31maintindihan
12:32at
12:32ang hirit
12:33ni
12:33Senator
12:33Alan
12:34you
12:34cannot
12:34argue
12:34legal
12:35concepts
12:35with
12:35a
12:42magistrate
12:43but
12:44again
12:44what do
12:44you
12:44make
12:45out
12:45of
12:45this
12:46and
12:46should
12:47the
12:47impeachment
12:47court
12:48loosen
12:48up
12:48ika
12:48nga?
12:49Siguro
12:50exert
12:50more
12:50effort
12:51to
12:51get
12:52more
12:52people
12:52to
12:52understand
12:53what's
12:53going
12:54on?
12:55Yeah,
12:56I actually
12:56believe in
12:57that
12:57Ivan
12:58because
12:59I think
12:59it's
13:00imperative
13:00na
13:01malimanize
13:01natin
13:02kung
13:02ano
13:03ba
13:03talaga
13:03itong
13:04mga
13:04nagiging
13:05mga
13:06terminologies
13:07na
13:07ginagamit
13:08criticalities
13:09na inilalata
13:10dito
13:10sa ating
13:10impeachment
13:11court
13:11because
13:11remember
13:13like I said
13:13a while ago
13:14we cannot
13:15isolate
13:15the public
13:16we cannot
13:16ostracize
13:17them
13:18from this
13:18impeachment
13:19trial
13:19because
13:19this
13:21pertains
13:21to
13:21accountability
13:22which is
13:22of course
13:23very very
13:23much
13:24a hallmark
13:24of our
13:25democratic
13:25principles
13:26so
13:27kinakailangan
13:28an informed
13:29people
13:30and a
13:30knowledgeable
13:31public
13:32I think
13:33is better
13:34equipped
13:34to be
13:35able to
13:36give their
13:37opinions
13:37on matters
13:38so
13:38yes
13:39it's
13:40true
13:40hindi
13:40naman
13:40tayo
13:41lahat
13:42bihasa
13:43dito
13:43sa mga
13:44proseso
13:44na ito
13:45kaya
13:45kinakailangan
13:46po
13:46talaga
13:46natin
13:47ng
13:47mas
13:48malalim
13:48na
13:48pagpapaliwanan
13:49maaaring
13:49idaan
13:50ito
13:50through
13:50social
13:51media
13:51through
13:52media
13:52of course
13:53very
13:53very
13:53important
13:54po
13:54ang
13:54inyong
13:54ginagapan
13:55ng
13:55papel
13:55dito
13:56kung
13:56paano
13:56natin
13:57mas
13:57mailalata
13:58in a
13:59language
14:00in a
14:01demeanor
14:01na
14:01mas
14:01maintindihan
14:02ng
14:02ating
14:03mga
14:03kababayan
14:03and I think
14:04mas
14:05magiging
14:06holistic
14:07yung ating
14:08magiging
14:09batayan
14:10ng ating
14:10konkretong
14:11paninindigan
14:12bilang mamamayan
14:12kung
14:13nainawaan
14:14at naintindihan
14:14natin
14:15yung mga
14:15taga-anapan
14:16na nandito
14:17sa impeachment
14:18natin
14:18and
14:19with that
14:20professor
14:20magpapasalamat
14:21kama sa inyo
14:22for helping us
14:23help our
14:24viewers
14:24understand
14:25what's going on
14:26in this impeachment
14:27trial
14:27maraming salamat
14:28po sa inyo
14:28professor
14:28Froylan Kalilong
14:29sir
14:31Ang mga
14:33issue
14:33pinag-uusapan
14:34lilinawin
14:35at ihimayin
14:36natin
14:36on record
14:37sa unang
14:39hirin
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