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ON RECORD SA UNANG HIRIT na pinag-usapan ang pagpapalit liderato ulit ng Senado kahapon. Ano ba ang epekto nito sa nangyayari ngayon sa bansa at sa nalalapait na impeachment trial ni VP Sara? Nakausap natin si UP College of Law Associate Dean at Assistant Professor Atty. Paolo Tamase para himayin ang issue na ‘yan.
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00:00Politika ang nagdedetermine ng majority sa Senado at hindi naman necessarily batas.
00:05Napakahalaga ng role ng mamamayan natin in the last month.
00:09Nakita po natin yung kapangyarihan ng mamamayan,
00:11even in napakataas na posisyon gaya ng Senado
00:15or napakakomplicated na mga bagay gaya ng pagawa ng batas.
00:26Pilipinas, gising na.
00:28Kahapon po, inihalal ang bagong liderato sa special session ng Senado
00:33na numpa bilang bagong Senate President si Senador Wyn Gatchalian,
00:37si Senador Tito Soto naman ang Senate President pro tempore
00:40at iminoto bilang bagong majority leader si Senador Migs Zubiri.
00:45Balik, minority leader naman si Senador Alan Peter Cayetano.
00:50Ang latest development na yan si Senado at ipag-uusapan, lilinawin at hihibayin.
00:55On record, sa unang hirin.
00:59At ngayong umaga, mga kapanayang po natin,
01:01Associate Dean and Assistant Professor ng UP College of Law,
01:04Attorney Paulo Tamase.
01:05Attorney, thank you for joining us again. Good morning.
01:08Good morning, ganibala sa inyo mga kalasok. Bye-bye.
01:11Attorney Tamase, we are on record now.
01:13Attorney, unahin natin yung diskusyon sa pagpapalitan ng liderato sa Senado,
01:17si Senador Wyn Gatchalian, anong pa, bigalang bagong Senate President.
01:22At Senate President pro tempore naman, si Senador Tito Soto.
01:26Yung ibang idiniklarang bago rin sa posisyon.
01:29So far, finally, Assemblance of Order in the Senate, this is a good thing, yes?
01:34Yes, definitely, no?
01:36Yung pagbabalik ng operations ng Senate, yung reconstitution ng committees,
01:40at yung pag-resolve kung anong mag-issue doon sa liderato nila ay isang magandang step,
01:46lalo na dahil papunta tayo, hindi lamang sa ikalawang sesyon ng Kongreso na magsisimara sa July,
01:51kundi doon sa impeachment na parating na rin.
01:53Ayan, before we go to the impeachment, Attorney,
01:56hindi rin kasi natin mayaalis yung fact na pang-ilang Senate President na itong si Senador Wyn
02:01in the last four years of the Marcos administration
02:04and happening at a crucial point when the Senate is going to be an impeachment court for the Vice President.
02:10Ano kaya efekto nito, Attorney?
02:12Yung ganitong still, apparently, deeply divided Senate
02:16and a seeming Senate leadership na napaka-unstable
02:19at marabang anong oras pwede magbago?
02:23Yung pagkakaroon ng hidwaan or differences sa Senado,
02:27hindi naman siya nababago sa ating kasaysayan.
02:30If we look at titignan natin yung mas mahabang kasaysayan natin at yung kasaysayan ng Senado,
02:35mayroon talagang tradisyon ng, hindi naman confrontational, but differences
02:40kasi bahagi din ng paggawa ng mabuting batas, ng pabuting policy
02:44ay yung pag-insure na naririnig yung ibang-ibang boses at views sa isang issue.
02:49So, hindi necessarily masama.
02:51I think ang hindi maganda na nangyayari in the last few months
02:55or the last few years sa Senado ay parang naiging personal
02:59masyado yung differences nila.
03:02Hindi na siya nakabatay doon sa differences in policy,
03:04pero parang may personal animosity.
03:07And I think yung pagbabago ng liderato na ito,
03:11pagkakataon, and I think challenge for the new leadership
03:13to bring the Senate back together
03:15para i-ensure na bagaman mayroon silang differences,
03:18may natapatuloy pa rin yung kanilang trabaho
03:20at hindi yung naihingdahilan upang hindi gawin yung tungkulin nila sa ating saligang batas.
03:25Isa sa mga main stories kahapon, attorney,
03:27yung 13th senator sa majority, si Sen. Joel Villanueva.
03:31Ang sinasabi niya, ang soundbite niya, tramaho lang.
03:34Pero kung si dating SP kaya tanong tatanungin,
03:38buka nagkaroon daw ng arm twisting to make this happen.
03:41Anong your thoughts on this?
03:44Of course, naiintindihan natin yung sentiment
03:47ni Sen. President Alan Peter Kaya Tano
03:51na baka nagkaroon ng arm twisting.
03:54Una siguro, na kailangan alalahanin ay politika,
03:58ang nagdedetermine ng majority sa Senado
04:01at hindi naman necessarily batas.
04:03So normal, abahagi ng ating sistema sa saligang batas,
04:06yung liderato ng Senado,
04:08ang nagdedetermine nun ay politika,
04:10kung ano yung political preferences ng mga senador natin.
04:13At hindi masamang bagay yun.
04:14Siguro, ang maganda banta yan ay,
04:16kung nagkaroon nga talaga ng arm twisting,
04:19at kailangan sana mas specific,
04:22yung pagkakaroon ng political pressure,
04:25hindi naman siya binabawal,
04:26as long as hindi siya indigal.
04:27So makabubuti, if former Sen. President Kaya Tano
04:33is sincere dun sa allegations niya,
04:35nabigyan ng mas mabuting detalye,
04:37kung ano yung sinasabing arm twisting,
04:39at kung nagkaroon ba ng palitan,
04:41or anong transaction yung nangyari.
04:42Otherwise, parang mahirap naman na
04:45hindi isisi sa normal na politika lamang
04:48yung pagpapalit ng liderato.
04:50Yun nga, attorney,
04:51this allegation of arm twisting
04:52or wheeling and dealing with individual senators
04:55to create this new majority,
04:57at saka yung implication that Malacanang
04:59is the unseen hand,
05:00ika nga, in determining the Senate leadership.
05:03How should we look at this, attorney?
05:05Again, hindi per se masama,
05:07hindi necessarily masama
05:09na aligned yung interest ng
05:11executive department at ng legislative department.
05:15Sa ibang modern developed democracies,
05:19normal naman na may koordinasyon
05:20yung mga political branches na ito.
05:22Ipapatido ng Pangulo
05:24ay same sa partido nung namumbuno
05:26sa Senado at sa House,
05:27sa ibang sistema.
05:28At lalo na hindi ito bagay
05:30or bago sa ating sistema.
05:33So, hindi masama yung politika per se.
05:35Ang kailangan natin tignan
05:36ay nagkaroon ba ng illegal
05:38na gawain
05:39or hindi proper na transaction
05:42upang mangyari na itong
05:44ad-twisting nito.
05:45Ngunit, based doon
05:46sa mga statements
05:47ni Sen. Cayetano,
05:49hindi naman kasi
05:50nabibigyang detalye.
05:51So, mahirap din for us
05:52to speculate.
05:53Ito naman, attorney.
05:54Ano naman kaya
05:55ang impact nito
05:55sa calls for accountability,
05:58lalo't itong dalawang lumipat
05:59to create the new majority?
06:02Specifically,
06:02Sen. Escudero and Villanueva,
06:04pareho silang dawit
06:05sa flood control scandal.
06:07Para bang,
06:08ginagawa na bang
06:08bargaining chip
06:09itong paglipat
06:10sa majority
06:11in exchange
06:12for accountability?
06:14Kung unang-una
06:15kailangan natin
06:16alalahanin ay
06:17yung pagsasayas
06:18ng Senado,
06:18yung pagbabalik niya
06:19sa order,
06:20walang ibang
06:21magsisisi doon
06:22or maituturo
06:24ng dahilan
06:24kundi yung public pressure
06:26mismo sa Senado
06:27na bumalik sila
06:28sa trabaho.
06:29So, bahagi ng demokrasya,
06:31yung participation
06:32natin mamamayan,
06:33hindi lamang
06:33sa paghahalal
06:34ng ating mga pinuno,
06:35hindi doon
06:36sa pag-insure
06:37na ginagawa nila
06:38yung trabaho nila,
06:38yung pag-insist
06:39na ginagawa nila
06:40yung trabaho nila.
06:41So, on that note,
06:43kung mayroon mang
06:43daloong bargain
06:45na sinasabi mo,
06:46Ivan,
06:47yung mamamayan din
06:48na makapagbabantay niyan.
06:49So, yung public hearings
06:51ng ating Senado,
06:52yung Blue Ribbon committees,
06:53even yung investigations
06:54na ginagawa
06:55ng ombudsman,
06:56nakikita naman
06:57ng publiko
06:57at ng media yan.
06:58So, mahalagan
06:59na mag-matiag,
07:00nagkaroon ba
07:01ng parang
07:02software
07:03na treatment
07:05ukol doon
07:06sa mga senador
07:06na involved,
07:07meron ba
07:08mga pagtatago
07:09ng testigo,
07:10or kung wala naman kasi,
07:11then wala nang basehan
07:12yung allegasyon
07:13na nagkaroon nga
07:15ng trade
07:16upang magkaroon din
07:18ang bagong mayorya.
07:18Attorney, ito palang
07:20kapetisyon sa Korte Suprema
07:21ng nine senators
07:22ng Cayetano Black.
07:24After yesterday,
07:25ano na ba
07:25mangyayari dito?
07:26And did you find
07:27the timing curious
07:28para ang senador
07:29Cayetano knew
07:30of the changes
07:30that were going
07:31to happen
07:31but filed it anyway?
07:34So, may tatlo siguro
07:35na pwedeng mangyayari,
07:36mabilis lamang.
07:37Una ay pwedeng
07:38i-withdraw
07:39nila ni Senate President
07:40or Senator Cayetano
07:42yung petisyon
07:43na finail
07:44nilang nine senators.
07:46Hindi pa naman
07:46na umak-action,
07:47I think,
07:48yung Korte
07:48base doon
07:49sa mga nahihinta natin
07:50sa media press releases.
07:52Pangalawa ay
07:53pwedeng ito gawing
07:54move ng Korte.
07:55So, maglalabas siya
07:56ng resolution
07:56na sasabihin na
07:57hindi nila
07:58bidinigin yung petisyon
07:59dahil tapos na
08:00yung pinaglalaban
08:01ng petisyon na yun
08:02which is essentially
08:03an ethics court
08:04yung liderato ng Senado.
08:06Pero yung pangatwa
08:07kasing pwede na mangyari
08:08ay magde-decision pa rin
08:09yung Korte Suprema
08:10dahil namitin nilang
08:12basehan yung fact
08:13na madaming issues
08:14na na-raise doon
08:15sa petisyon
08:15na pwede kasing umulit
08:16ukol doon
08:17sa pag-unawa natin
08:18sa quorum,
08:19pag-unawa natin
08:20doon sa mga boto
08:21maging sa impeachment
08:22na naisama sa petisyon
08:24for some reason.
08:25Yung mga ganoong bagay
08:26pwede kasi siyang
08:28desisyon na ng Korte
08:28upang maiwasan
08:30yung dispute
08:31in the future.
08:32So, may exception
08:33doon sa mootness doctrine
08:34na sinasabi natin
08:35na capable of repetition
08:36at evading review.
08:38Yung own
08:38academic sentiment ko
08:40ay baka hindi magranda
08:42for the court
08:42to do that right now
08:43kasi hindi siya
08:44usually nang hihimasok
08:46doon sa mga
08:47political fights
08:48na tapos na.
08:49Otherwise,
08:49parang siya yung
08:50naglalatag
08:51yung patakara
08:51ng Senado.
08:52Nakita naman natin
08:53gumaganing yung sistema
08:54na hinahayaan
08:55lamang natin silang
08:56na i-resolve ba
08:57yung seri nila
08:58mga gusto.
08:59So, mabilis
09:00na nasagot doon
09:00sa pangalawang tanong
09:01curious ba yung timing.
09:03Sa totoo lang,
09:04hindi naman tayo
09:05sure kasi
09:06kahit pa paano,
09:08yung paghahandaan
09:09ng petition,
09:09I think one week
09:10lang naman yung tinagal.
09:11So, parang in the
09:12ordinary course,
09:13pwedeng nag-file lang
09:14talaga,
09:15but I think
09:16nung nag-file yung
09:17nine,
09:19doon sa,
09:20I think Tuesday lang
09:21may ikita na natin
09:23na mukhang nawala na
09:24yung mayorya.
09:25Kasi yung siya,
09:26definitely lower siya
09:27than 12.
09:28At the time,
09:29yung numbers
09:30nung side nila
09:31ni ngayon
09:32Senate President
09:32Gatselian,
09:33and definitely lower
09:34than the 13
09:35na yung number
09:35na nilalaban
09:36nung kampo nila
09:37ni Senator Cayetano.
09:38So, at the very least,
09:39it was a sign na
09:40mukhang patapos na
09:41yung dispute
09:42over the leadership.
09:44Pursu ko lang
09:44yung nabanggitin
09:45yung mga senaryo
09:46sa attorney.
09:47The Supreme Court
09:48may decide
09:50on the legal questions,
09:52but should they?
09:54So,
09:55one sense ko is
09:56they should not.
09:57In the first place,
09:59yung pagde-decide
10:00ng questions na moot,
10:01yung moot,
10:01ibig sabihin po noon,
10:03yung kahit mag-desisyon pa
10:04ko yung korte,
10:05wala na pong
10:05mabagbago underground.
10:07May bago na po tayong
10:08Senate President,
10:09may bago na po tayong
10:10mayorya,
10:10so moot na po yung
10:11kaso na iyon.
10:12Yung pagde-desisyon po
10:13ng korte
10:14ng mga kaso na moot
10:16ay exceptional.
10:17At exceptional po yun
10:19kasi isa po sa limitasyon
10:20ng kapangyarihan
10:21sa korte sa ating
10:22sanigang batas
10:23ay dapat mayroong
10:23actual case or controversy,
10:25may buhay na dispute
10:26na pwede pa niyang
10:27resolbahin.
10:28Otherwise,
10:28para siya nangyiging
10:29disorder ng ibang branches.
10:31So,
10:32pwede pa rin niya
10:33desisyon lang,
10:33pero yung exception
10:34kasi na iyon
10:35ay makitid.
10:36Kailangan mapakita talaga
10:38na paulit-ulit
10:38itong mangyayari.
10:39And hindi lamang
10:40itong leadership change,
10:42but yung other issues
10:43na involved.
10:44But I think pangalawa
10:45ay may prudence din tayo
10:47na tinatawag
10:47sa part ng court.
10:49At yun yung
10:49kapag tapos na yung
10:50away politika
10:51at hindi na niya
10:52kailangan pumasok,
10:53iiwasan na yun
10:54upang hindi siya mahilad
10:55doon sa political dispute.
10:56Daku tayo sa usaping
10:58impeachment attorney.
10:59Binago ng Senado
10:59ang kanilang impeachment
11:00rules para payagin
11:02yung pagtatalaga
11:02ng isang hiwalay
11:03na presiding officer.
11:05In your view as a lawyer,
11:06attorney,
11:07kailangan ba abogado
11:08mag-preside
11:08and what will
11:09Senator Cheese
11:10bring to the table
11:11as presiding officer?
11:13Definitely not.
11:14Hindi po kailangan
11:15na abogado
11:16mag-decide
11:16sa impeachment.
11:18In fact,
11:19yung proseso ko
11:19ay dinisenyo talaga
11:20upang maging
11:21understandable siya
11:23even to non-lawyers.
11:24Kasi pang-publico
11:25talaga yung proseso
11:26na magagalap.
11:28That said,
11:28yung nakaraan natin
11:29dalawang impeachment trial
11:31natulungan naman talaga
11:32by the fact
11:33na abogado
11:34yung nag-preside.
11:35So, sa kaso
11:36ni President Estrada
11:37noong 2001,
11:38si Chief Justice
11:39Hilaria Davide
11:40yung nag-preside.
11:42Yung last impeachment
11:44si Senator Juan Ponsendila
11:48yung nag-preside.
11:49So, itong
11:49the last two cases,
11:50makikita mo kasi
11:51yung ability
11:52ng isang
11:53presiding officer
11:54na ang pinakamahalagang
11:55trabaho niya
11:56ay mag-decide
11:57ng mga objections
11:57and procedural questions
12:01na hindi na kailangan
12:02ibato muna sa plenaryo.
12:03Parang yung preliminary
12:04ruling on that.
12:06So, nakakatulong
12:07kung may abogado
12:07kahit pa paano.
12:09And I think
12:09ang kailangan
12:10ni-emphasize lang
12:11ay sa saligang
12:11batas na ba natin,
12:12hindi sinasabi
12:13na ang Senate President
12:14ang nag-preside.
12:15Sinasabi lang
12:16na yung trial
12:16ay gagawin ng Senado.
12:18So, kung yung internal rules
12:19ng Senado mismo
12:20ay hahayaan
12:21na ibang Senador
12:22yung mag-preside,
12:23then yung pag-conduct
12:24ng impeachment trial
12:25according to those rules
12:26ay hindi naman
12:27irregular.
12:29Attorney,
12:30as I usually like
12:30to end our discussions,
12:32tulungan nga natin
12:33yung viewers
12:33to make sense
12:34of what is happening.
12:35What are the takeaways
12:36na dapat tingnan
12:37ng ating mga kababayan
12:38sa mga nangyayari
12:38sa Senado
12:39at ano mga dapat
12:40bantayan
12:41sa mga susunod
12:42na araw at linggo?
12:44So, again,
12:45napakahalaga
12:46ng role
12:46ng mamamayan natin
12:47in the last month.
12:49Maraming calls
12:50na yung Korte Suprema
12:51na yung pumasok
12:51or magkaroon
12:53ng ibang types
12:54of intervention
12:54sa Senado
12:55upang maayos
12:56yung usot sa liderato.
12:57Yung nag-work po
12:58in my view
12:59is yung clamor
13:00ng mamamayan
13:01na magbalik
13:01yung ating mga Senador
13:02sa kanilang trabaho
13:03at yun yung naging pressure
13:04para sa ating mga Senador
13:06na pupunta na sa koalisyon
13:07or mag-act
13:08like statesmen.
13:09So, nakita po natin
13:10yung kapangyarihan
13:11ng mamamayan
13:12even in
13:14napakataas
13:14na posisyon
13:15gaya ng Senado
13:16or napaka-complicated
13:18na mga bagay
13:18gaya ng pagawa ng batas.
13:20So, mahalaga po
13:21na itong parating
13:22yung impeachment
13:22at dito nga po
13:23sa pagsisimula
13:24naman ng second session
13:25ng Senado
13:25ay ipagpatuloy pa rin
13:26yung mamamayan
13:27doon sa
13:29pagtitiis
13:30doon sa mga nangyayaring
13:30gusto
13:31as well as doon
13:32sa pag-create
13:33ng public pressure
13:34para gawin ng Senador
13:35yung katilang tungkulin
13:36sa ilalim
13:37ng ating sanigang batas.
13:39Maraming salamat
13:40sa pagpapaliwanag
13:41as always
13:42Atty. Paolo Tomase, sir.
13:45Maraming salamat,
13:45Pag Magdalmaga.
13:46Ang mga issue
13:47pinag-uusapan
13:47hihimayin
13:48at lilinawin natin
13:49on record
13:50sa unang hirin.
13:52Maraming salamat,
13:53Gita.
13:54Maraming salamat,
13:55Pag Magdalmaga.
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