- 9 hours ago
John and Daniel examine the historical and theological roots of Manifest Sons of God teaching, Jane Lead, bridal theology, mystical elitism, and the idea of a hidden "real" church within the visible church. The discussion connects early mystical language to modern charismatic and New Apostolic Reformation patterns, including secret knowledge, spiritual hierarchy, purity claims, and financial pressure inside ministry cultures.
The conversation also explores YWAM-adjacent concerns, the problem of unpaid religious labor, the difference between biblical mystery and Gnostic-style secrecy, and why ordinary Christian faithfulness is healthier than chasing elite spiritual status. John and Daniel contrast inflated claims of dominion, purity, and supernatural manifestation with the simpler Christian life of repentance, humility, work, stewardship, and daily dependence on Christ.
00:00 Introduction
02:09 Daniel Bright’s Background And YWAM Concerns
06:14 Jane Leade And The Roots Of Mystical Elitism
10:16 Secret Knowledge, Conspiracy Thinking, And Mystery Religion
16:25 Religious Language, “Manifested Sons,” And Spiritual Confusion
19:09 Bridal Theology And The Problem Of Purity
23:01 Romans 8, In-Groups, And The Carrot On The Stick
29:37 Sons Of God, Sons Of Man, And Misused Biblical Titles
38:07 Political Power, NAR Influence, And Movement Growth
44:10 Jane Leade, Anti-Catholic Politics, And The Glorious Revolution
49:13 Tolkien, Ordinary Faith, And Rejecting Spiritual Power
55:07 Healing Claims, Diabetes, And Life Without Secret Mysteries
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
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The conversation also explores YWAM-adjacent concerns, the problem of unpaid religious labor, the difference between biblical mystery and Gnostic-style secrecy, and why ordinary Christian faithfulness is healthier than chasing elite spiritual status. John and Daniel contrast inflated claims of dominion, purity, and supernatural manifestation with the simpler Christian life of repentance, humility, work, stewardship, and daily dependence on Christ.
00:00 Introduction
02:09 Daniel Bright’s Background And YWAM Concerns
06:14 Jane Leade And The Roots Of Mystical Elitism
10:16 Secret Knowledge, Conspiracy Thinking, And Mystery Religion
16:25 Religious Language, “Manifested Sons,” And Spiritual Confusion
19:09 Bridal Theology And The Problem Of Purity
23:01 Romans 8, In-Groups, And The Carrot On The Stick
29:37 Sons Of God, Sons Of Man, And Misused Biblical Titles
38:07 Political Power, NAR Influence, And Movement Growth
44:10 Jane Leade, Anti-Catholic Politics, And The Glorious Revolution
49:13 Tolkien, Ordinary Faith, And Rejecting Spiritual Power
55:07 Healing Claims, Diabetes, And Life Without Secret Mysteries
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org.
00:42And with me, I have my very special guest, Daniel Bright, nearly former ex-YWAMER.
00:48Daniel, that introduction makes me laugh.
00:51I actually just had a conversation earlier today with a former YWAMER, the real kind,
00:56not the nearly former YWAMER.
00:59And we were talking about some of the struggles that they had, and hopefully we'll be getting
01:04into that a lot more.
01:06But anyway, you have been nearly an ex-YWAMER, as we talked about last time, and you've been
01:12digging deeply into the manifested sons of God, the mystery church, all of this weird spiritual
01:19mess that they have today that they claim as a divinely inspired, I don't know, movement
01:25by God, and you're digging under the hood to some of the same things that I found when
01:29I began my research.
01:31So it's going to be fun to talk through it.
01:33I'll admit that it's been, gosh, that was 2014.
01:37I started looking at some of the names you've mentioned.
01:40Jacob Bohm.
01:41I've actually since learned it's pronounced Boh-may.
01:45Boh-may, yeah.
01:46Yeah, different names, but I came across these names when I could barely, I barely even knew
01:52how to research.
01:53Steve Montgomery and I talk about them quite a bit.
01:56Steve is pretty deep into it.
01:58So anyway, it'll be fun to hear your fresh new perspective, and we can talk about that.
02:03But first, remind people who you are and your connection to all of this research.
02:09Yeah, I live in Norway.
02:11I've been living here since 2016, and I work as a gardener for a local municipality.
02:16I go to a free Lutheran church in Norway, in Harmer Free Church, and it's a town about
02:25200, about 150 miles north of Oslo.
02:29It's not very big, it's 40,000 of us.
02:31There's four big churches and three bad churches, as they say.
02:34The churches we do go to, the churches we don't go to.
02:36The church is heavily affected by YWAM, and so it's about, I would say, 70% ex-YWAM.
02:44Not just, well, 70% of people there have been at YWAM.
02:47Not to say they're ex, they used to be in it, and they're still Christians.
02:51So the Norway's biggest YWAM base is within walking distance, if you can walk an hour and
02:56a half from our church, and the number two of the national YWAM team, she is a woman leader.
03:04She is at our church, and there's a lot of people who've been on staff.
03:11And as I mentioned to you just before, there was someone in my church who recognised me
03:16from our previous time I was on.
03:19She said, hey Daniel, I was watching you on YouTube.
03:22Yeah, I was talking about this church and a lot of the stuff that's been going on.
03:27So for 10 years, I've been, I don't want to use a negative word like surrounded, embraced
03:32by many YWAMers.
03:35And I've seen the, to reiterate what I said the last time, my objections are the economical,
03:45financial impact of YWAM and volunteerism.
03:49And just this past, just recently, we had someone preaching who was in YWAM for many
03:55years, and he was saying that he would get the bills for each month and, you know, rent
04:02and car and insurance, and he would lay his hand over it and pray that these would be paid.
04:07That's a level of trust, I think, is unbiblical and unchristian.
04:13Because Paul does say to us, each week, you do a bit of budgeting, what do you need to
04:16spend on food, what do you need to spend on all of this, on your insurances perhaps, and
04:21whatever you've got left, you give to the poor.
04:23Jesus, they don't worry about tomorrow, whatever it brings.
04:26But in a certain sense, your weekly and monthly budgeting, that's on you really.
04:31Basically, as a Christian, I, as a YWAM or not a YWAM, would pray for the coming year.
04:37I don't know what's going to happen in the next 12 months, but really the next four weeks
04:40will resolve my own financial planning.
04:43So you shouldn't be praying over the bills you need to pay before you end on your internet
04:48banking, whatever.
04:49That's down to you, and God has given you that sovereignty to really just work and get
04:54a job.
04:55So that's my relationship with YWAM.
04:57There's no large-scale scandals from the local base.
05:02It's just the far more pedestrian, sad stories of people who have given a lot to this organisation
05:09and they haven't got much to show for it by the time they're 35 and want the house to
05:14mortgage.
05:15That's my, I would say, biggest worry about anyone getting into YWAM.
05:20He's not going to be financially viable by the time you're 40.
05:23It's youth with a mission.
05:25And when you're in your mid-30s like me, it's not youth.
05:30It's time to get out.
05:32And I originally came across you following the Mike Pickled stuff, but then I realised it
05:37was on to YWAM.
05:38And I remember emailing you years ago saying, oh, you're going to get on to YWAM one day,
05:42and you have.
05:43But what I was listening to you talk to Jed Hartley about some of the scandals, and I'd
05:50still agree with you that I'm not so interested in researching it.
05:55That's kind of the John Collins 3.0.
05:58You know, maybe in 30 years time, someone like you is going to be researching all this.
06:02They'll probably know a lot more in three decades.
06:04There's a lot more things will come to light, people who publish books.
06:08So we can't give IHOPKC the same level of research in that sense.
06:12So that's why I'm really interested in Jane Leed with an E or sometimes without an E,
06:18depending on some searches.
06:20And she was a, I hesitate to say mystic.
06:25She was a, she was a poorly thought through Christian.
06:28Let's call it that.
06:29A mystic sounds a bit too complimentary.
06:32Yeah.
06:33He's the person who I wouldn't invite to my conference if I'm in one, put it that way.
06:39And Norwich back then is, it doesn't sound like a very big place.
06:42It was, it was the sort of second city of England at the time, the late 1690s.
06:46So this is about the same time as Salem Whips Trials.
06:48So I mean, that was the age of the buckled hats, old fashioned statement going on there.
06:54So she was, she didn't write stuff herself, but a lot of her followers wrote after it,
07:02wrote, so kind of ghost wrote a lot of what she said.
07:07And as I sort of said to you before, when we map some of the modern terms onto her,
07:13they can make a lot more sense, like her bridal theology,
07:16talking about preparing the bride and stuff like that.
07:21I'm trying to convince all the stuff that I've learned from you, really.
07:24Two or three years ago, you did Jane Leed with someone who's much more well read on it
07:29and more researched on converging apostasy.
07:33And when I was researching Jane Leed as well,
07:35it was very difficult to avoid actually just coming back to you anyway,
07:38because not many other people were looking into this.
07:41So for those uninitiated, Jane Leed, that was her, as I said,
07:45a mystic she was in the late 17th century.
07:48What I'm most interested in is taking out three points of her ideas,
07:54which I think are most important for us today in understanding the modern,
08:00Pentecostal, charismatic situation we're in,
08:05which is that a lot of it comes from her.
08:08There was, you'll have to hop in and correct the terms I'm using here,
08:12but she talked a lot about the visible and the invisible church.
08:15And we joked, I was a lot of researching which Star Trek references.
08:20It's section 31, which is a secret group within everyone else,
08:25who's then going to manifest and explode and be the real deal.
08:29And the weakness with that is when you have the secret group,
08:33which is, it quickly becomes not them.
08:37And I was thinking when you can call that group whatever you want.
08:41I think they call them the forerunners in IOP Katie and other people,
08:46they would call them the sociates or people who've maybe gone to Bible college
08:49for three years, someone who's got the right surname.
08:52So in every church, you've always got a group within it.
08:55And that's different from saying you've got the priesthood or people that are
08:58ordained, because in a church,
09:00you might vote for elders and you might appoint a pastor.
09:03That's a little bit different.
09:04But Jane Lee kind of was embryonic for the idea of within the church,
09:08you've got the core, the nuts, or you might be on the outside.
09:11You might even include people who aren't Christians.
09:14And from them will arise a real deal.
09:17They're the ones who are going to kick it into gear.
09:20And, you know, the group within the group is going to bring forth all of this
09:26stuff that's going to happen.
09:27And I just see that in a lot of Pentecostal charismatic churches and even
09:32Reformed, to a lesser extent, you've got the group within the group.
09:36And how does that turn out?
09:38And if we're saying, well, that's bad, well, what's the alternative?
09:42What is good theology in terms of what is the church?
09:45What's the group?
09:46And I take the Catholic, Roman Catholic or Lutheran position.
09:50You don't have a group within the church that's going to emerge and say,
09:54oh, these guys had it all along and we didn't realise.
09:56It's more the case that the true church, one with scandals galore,
10:04but there's not an invisible church that's going to emerge from it.
10:08The church as we see it is what it is, Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist,
10:12and, you know, Reformed, the one through the Catholic and Apostolic Church.
10:16But I believe there's no secret group coming up through it.
10:19I remember when I came across that, I was just completely dumbfounded that this
10:24problem had existed that long because what is being described is basically a cult.
10:31We have this group.
10:32We're a special group.
10:33We're not like the others of our Christian faith.
10:36We're this special elitist group.
10:38And I started going through, I went through all kinds of different pathways of research
10:42that led me into Gnosticism and Spiritualism and whatnot.
10:46But what I found was this.
10:49After I left the Branham religion, I got really deep into conspiracy theories,
10:54which a lot of people who leave cults do because they recognise that within a
10:59conspiracy theory, you have a group that literally has the secret knowledge,
11:04the special knowledge, and they're keeping it from everybody else.
11:07Why are they doing this?
11:07There must be something wrong, evil with this group.
11:10And then I got into history and I realised that that's not unique to the Christian faith.
11:16It's not even unique to faith in general.
11:19We had, during the spiritualist craze in the United States, you had all of the
11:23spiritualists who had all of their secrets.
11:26You had the Masons, had all of their secrets.
11:29And I thought Masonry was this purely evil form that only the evil people joined.
11:34And I found some really good people who were Masons.
11:37So then you've got this complex web of, well, now there's levels of knowledge within the groups.
11:42And then that led me to, well, what about all of the other fraternal orders?
11:46They're all structured the same way.
11:48And what I came to realise was I just kind of moved all of that out to the side.
11:55And I don't know if you've seen the show Little Rascals or there's some movies, Little
12:01Rascals and black and white TV shows.
12:03And I've mentioned this before.
12:05There's one episode where I think it's Spanky has a marble and he's keeping it.
12:11It's a secret marble.
12:11He's special because he's got the big one, right?
12:14And everybody's got the little tiny ones.
12:15And that's really what it's like.
12:17It's like a bunch of kids and they think they've got the better marble than the rest of
12:21them.
12:21They're really the same.
12:23They don't really have anything special.
12:25But if they can brag that they have something special that the others don't have, the others
12:31want to get in, right?
12:32I started, once I made that connection, I started thinking back to all of the things that we
12:39had as our divine mysteries in the group we came out of.
12:42And none of them were really that special.
12:44In fact, a few of them were actually in the Bible.
12:47You could just read the Bible and get these secret mysteries.
12:50We didn't really have anything special, but we pretended that we did.
12:54And the things that we did have special, if people knew what they were, they really wouldn't
12:59want them.
13:00So when I came across what you're describing, all of these secret entity, and Jane Leed and
13:06her historical lineage is only one pathway of this.
13:09You can find it all the way back to the mystery cults of the ancient world.
13:13You have a group of people who are doing the same thing.
13:16We have something special.
13:17If you come in our group, you get the special thing.
13:19We're not like the rest.
13:21We're a little bit better.
13:22And in the end, it's just, it's a different marble.
13:25I think it contrasts with the true Christian idea of what the church is, which is instead
13:32of going to someone saying, I've got the true special marble, which is unique.
13:36You come along and say to them, look, all of the marbles you've got, they're all cracked.
13:41They're all broken.
13:41And actually, there's one true marble, which none of us have, but Jesus does.
13:47And that's why he's talking about the pearl, the pearl of great price, not the Mormon reference.
13:51He's talking about the pearl of great price, the man who sold everything in his field to
13:54buy, which is to say, it's not an ideal that we try and achieve.
13:58It's a standard that we can never reach.
14:00And it's only Jesus who has that one, that one true marble in that situation.
14:06My position on it being a mystery, then it needs to be revealed.
14:09That's why Paul says in somewhere, or one from, let's say, Peter, Paul, even he got confused himself.
14:15He said, did I say it or did Peter say it?
14:16He was saying that this is the mystery of the gospel, which is Christ revealed.
14:21So when people are telling you, you need new information or new light, which is quite, that's
14:28a grandparent of a Jehovah Witness terminology that they use.
14:33We've got new lights and provision from our organization, which is going to tell you the
14:36truth.
14:37It's the idea that there's, that Gnosticism in Greek means to know.
14:42And if you ever wondered, why do we spell it with a K?
14:45Because it did come from Greek first.
14:47And Gnosticism, like in Greek, we've dropped the G, so we've dropped the K.
14:52So Gnosticism just means knowledge.
14:54And it means you've got to know something extra.
14:58And for anyone who's played Dungeons and Dragons or a little bit familiar with Warcraft or anything
15:02like that, when you're a priest or a paladin, there's a difference between intelligence and
15:05wisdom.
15:07Intelligence is usually someone who knows a lot of things.
15:10And wisdom is like the guy says, yeah, but you don't put tomato in a fruit salad.
15:13You know, it's one thing to know stuff, it's another thing to have wisdom.
15:18That's why Solomon, Solomon asks for wisdom.
15:21And I think there are a few people called the wisdom cults.
15:25Didn't they end up with something to do with an angel called Emma?
15:28It's really bizarre.
15:29But the wisdom cults, at least they're a bit closer to the terminology the Bible uses.
15:34The Bible wants us to obtain wisdom.
15:37You can be a very wise person and not really know anything.
15:41But it's very common to know a lot of things, but not really know what to do with that information
15:45and become rather unwise.
15:48But you're right with the conspiracy theories that a lot of that was prevalent at the time.
15:57This guy, I mentioned earlier, Henry Dodwell, he reviewed Jane Lead at the time.
16:04And he reviewed some of the stuff she was going on about.
16:07He was a bit of an odd chap to pin down.
16:10He was born in Ireland.
16:12He was a free judge.
16:15He didn't take the oath of allegiance to William and Mary when they took the throne,
16:19which is a bit strange.
16:21He said that Jane Lead was writing and using a lot of terms in Latin,
16:28whereas the style of English she was using was still a lot of these and thows,
16:33which makes us think that Jane Lead was writing or was being written about in a very formal type of
16:40English.
16:40Everyone used thee and thou back then.
16:41But she was peppering her writing with incorrect Latin and she was throwing terms around
16:50which didn't really know what they were saying, like that meanness out there.
16:55I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.
16:58And that really made me think of the modern NAR, when you've got the New Apostolic Reformation.
17:05They're throwing out a lot of terms where they may be speaking in tongues and not knowing what they're saying.
17:10It's when you're peppering your language with words that sound really impressive,
17:16that are doing a lot of work for you, but either don't mean what you want it to,
17:21or you're just trying to hide behind using very high contested terms.
17:27So she wouldn't use the term manifest in the terms of God.
17:30When you're talking about manifesting something, it just means showing it.
17:34And I mentioned in the previous time we spoke that sometimes I was trying to translate a lot of the
17:39veranimism terms to people.
17:41When I tried translating manifested signs of God, it came up with,
17:46that word kind of translates into Norwegian as elected representative to God.
17:50I think the last thing God would want is elected representative talking about wasted social management
17:56and the speed limits within zoning laws.
18:00Because if you use a term like manifested signs of God, that's very Jane Lee thinking,
18:04which is to use an advanced term hidden behind Latin.
18:07But if you just said to people, manifested signs of God just means we're the ones who are going to
18:13be doing it.
18:15Then the kind of Latin, it all comes crashing down and you're just left with very urgent street English.
18:21And people say, oh, that doesn't make any sense at all.
18:23You mean we're the ones who are going to be implementing it.
18:25Yeah, and that implies that God is either too weak or that you,
18:32I couldn't pin down exactly where she was talking about that in those terms.
18:38Yeah, that idea of outsourcing the job to us just implies that God can't be bothered doing it.
18:45And that group of the invisible church that I mentioned earlier,
18:48that gets a bit worse because then the manifested signs of God have to have to bring about the kingdom
18:53by certain acts of, well, sabotage to bring about the end times.
18:59However, however much they need to be accelerated.
19:04Yeah, I can't remember what term she uses for the manifested signs of God.
19:08And likewise, I struggled to find where she comes up with the term the bride,
19:13preparing the bride for the church.
19:17Because today there's a guy out there a couple of years ago
19:20who pretended he'd come up with the translation of the new translation of the Bible.
19:25He couldn't read Aramaic or Greek,
19:27but he said he was going back to the original Aramaic, which he can't speak.
19:30There's something called the Passion Translation.
19:32And he said that the final word that Jesus uttered on the cross was bride.
19:38Where he got that from?
19:40Jesus says, it is finished.
19:41But he said, oh, but the word in Aramaic was bride.
19:43Don't know where he got that from.
19:44But the idea of bridal theology is biblical.
19:47It's from Revelation 21, where the new bride of Christ
19:50coming down from heaven from God, the new Jerusalem.
19:53That theme isn't really picked up on very much.
19:56In fact, just a couple of weeks,
19:58someone I was listening to you interviewed actually talked about that.
20:01He was interviewed for a position as a pastor,
20:03and he said, my job is to prepare the bride for the groom or something like that.
20:08Prepare Christ's bride for the coming of Christ.
20:12And so when he said that, that's going right back to 1690 to Jane Leed.
20:17He doesn't know that it came from her.
20:19I just don't think that sort of phrase would have originated from your average Methodist Lutheran church down the road,
20:25or Second Presbyterian, or just off Main Street.
20:28These kind of ideas aren't really going to come from people just reading Revelation 21.
20:32They're going to come from someone who went to IHOPKC, who learned stuff from Bob Jones,
20:38William Branham from Parham, da-da-da-da-da.
20:40Stuff that you probably think about in your sleep all the time.
20:43You know the family tree.
20:45That's where it's come from.
20:46And it all went back to Jane Leed, this idea of us being the bride.
20:50And it's just so strange that a concept which is present in the Bible can be misconstrued first by Jane
20:58Leed and then people later on.
20:59I just don't know what it is with about the bride.
21:01I think it might just be overly sexualizing the images, which is again sort of hashtag IHOPKC,
21:08which just means that you're keeping people pure for Christ.
21:12But as soon as you talk about wanting to keep someone pure for the groom,
21:17that issue of purity then becomes something that you're scared of losing,
21:23which is very important.
21:26And as I said before, to reiterate, I can't match up to the level of research.
21:30All I can think about is the concepts which you guys have brought up many years ago
21:34just really got me thinking that Jane Leed came up with the idea of bride.
21:39When you put that onto the church, you're saying that we need to stay pure,
21:43we need to be kept pure, whereas the Christian life for me is all about confessing each week
21:48that we've all sinned and all fallen short of the glory of God.
21:50So maybe that's the kind of bride that we need to come to.
21:54If you want to talk about the bride of Christ,
21:57but to focus on how Israel related to God in what he describes as his honeymoon period in the Sinai
22:03Desert.
22:04They created other gods, they were moaning, they say,
22:07we don't want this, we want a divorce, we want to go back to Egypt.
22:10That's the bride of Christ.
22:13That's what it's like being married to God.
22:16You want an instant divorce and he's like,
22:17why don't you just kill me all and just have a new marriage with Moses?
22:20It was a shocker of a honeymoon.
22:22And that's what God called later on in the Old Testament,
22:26his honeymoon period with Israel.
22:28Use that as a picture for the bride of Christ.
22:30And imperfect people who complain a lot,
22:33who certainly aren't worthy of it,
22:35rather than keeping the bride pure by a series of rules,
22:40which tend to hinder around donating a lot of money
22:43so that Kenneth Copeland can get a new private jet.
22:45I'm not really sure how that prepares the bride for Christ.
22:50But yeah, that concept of purity is ultimately not Christian.
22:55It's only Christ is pure.
22:56We can't be made pure and we can't remain pure.
22:58Well, it all fits together.
23:01And this is my opinion.
23:02I'm not a Bible scholar or I'm not an expert in Jane Leib by no means.
23:07But what the mystery cults did was they took something that was a little bit obscure
23:13that people couldn't understand and then said,
23:17we know what it is.
23:18We have the knowledge.
23:19We have the gnosis.
23:20And they would take passages.
23:22So Jane Leib, this manifested sons of God thing,
23:25and the only thing that I have found her say,
23:28and I can't remember where, which one of her documents,
23:31and it was probably ghostwritten,
23:33but she references, what is it, Romans 8, I think it is.
23:37Paul says,
23:38all of creation is groaning,
23:40waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God.
23:42It's actually a Bible phrase.
23:44It's not something unusual.
23:45And if you read it in the context of what Paul is saying,
23:48he's basically saying, look at this world.
23:51This is a mess.
23:52We're waiting for something else.
23:54There's not anything that's mysterious or special.
23:58He's just talking about the state of affairs as they are.
24:03However, because it's a little bit obscure,
24:05people want to read more into it than is actually said.
24:08So when you read through Jane Leib's documentation,
24:11she's trying to pack into it the idea that we're different than the other Christian.
24:17We're building a pure church.
24:19It's essentially, it's taking the church and it's flipping it upside down.
24:23Instead of the pastors teaching the people to become leaders themselves,
24:27leading by teaching people to lead,
24:30instead the pastors, the shepherds, the elders,
24:33all of the church members have something that's special that you don't have.
24:38And you can't get it as a member unless you,
24:40first you have to join us and then it's like the carrot on the stick.
24:43Join us, but then we're still not going to tell you what it is.
24:46We have it.
24:47You don't.
24:48It's essentially the same exact framework that NAR has.
24:51You join NAR.
24:52You believe you have the special thing,
24:55whatever version of the charismatic weirdness that you have.
24:59It's a special thing.
25:00So you join this one group or this other movement.
25:02Well, once you get in there,
25:04the leadership has something that still you don't have,
25:07and you'll never have because they're always one level higher.
25:10Well, that's what she's pushing is the idea that you have to become pure.
25:15We're the ones who are preparing you to be pure.
25:18And everybody in the audience is thinking,
25:20wait a minute, how do you do that?
25:21How do I get rid of my daily thoughts?
25:24Because I'm human.
25:25And I'm going to have human thoughts, human emotions.
25:28And, you know, just from a psychological standpoint,
25:32not many people take a step back to just think about how that would even work.
25:36Because as a human, I have human emotions.
25:39I get angry.
25:40I can't help it.
25:41I get angry.
25:42I get sad.
25:43I get mad.
25:44I get all of the flood of emotions, right?
25:47What if I'm in a room, I'm interacting with a person,
25:51and their emotion that they're feeling has a conflict with mine,
25:54and then the argument gets heated?
25:56Well, both of us have the potential to wander off into sinful language against each other, right?
26:02And neither one of us really meant to.
26:04We just had this psychological thing that happened.
26:07We had a conflict.
26:09Well, in the eyes of this movement, you have something that can keep you pure,
26:15keep your thoughts pure, keep you holy.
26:18Nobody on this earth can do this,
26:20because you're going to get into situations that are outside of your control.
26:25So you come to the movement, you think,
26:26oh, my gosh, they can do this for me.
26:29And you never stop to think that nobody can do this.
26:32There's no way possible for them to do this.
26:35And it's a carrot on the stick.
26:36They will never achieve what the leader has.
26:39Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,
26:43or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
26:48charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
26:53You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
26:57william-branham.org.
27:00On the books page of the website,
27:02you can find the compiled research of John Collins,
27:05Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
27:08John McKinnon, and others,
27:09with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
27:14You can also find resources and documentation
27:17on various people and topics related to those movements.
27:20If you want to contribute to the cause,
27:23you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
27:27And as always,
27:28be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.
27:33On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,
27:36we want to thank you for your support.
27:38There's a British book series that's 200 years old called Hornblower.
27:45Winston Churchill was a big fan of it.
27:47It was dramatized in the 1990s.
27:49In one of the episodes in that book,
27:53there's an entire crew who gets transferred onto a different ship
27:56by a captain who'd fought at Trafalgar.
27:59And, you know, he was really old and doddery,
28:02and he didn't have it together anymore.
28:04And he was being heavily medicated.
28:06But his entire crew,
28:07who hadn't been at the Battle of Trafalgar,
28:10but were younger than him,
28:11said,
28:11Oh, he's the best.
28:12He's the greatest guy.
28:13And they were really sucking up to him and brown-nosing him.
28:16And just having a go at the new guy saying,
28:18Well, you know,
28:20he's our captain.
28:20He's been at Trafalgar.
28:22These guys hadn't been.
28:23So what happens with these purity and bridal cults
28:26and these societies is that
28:28when everyone realizes they're falling short
28:30and they can't reach,
28:32you know,
28:32they can't achieve what leaders manage or the in-group,
28:35what they do is they start attacking these acolytes,
28:38if you call them that,
28:39the supporters.
28:40They'll start attacking people who don't support them,
28:42just like in any football club or any sports club.
28:44People who aren't even on the pitch support the team
28:47and talk about we, us.
28:48He's like,
28:48You're not even playing.
28:50You're not even on the pitch.
28:51You know,
28:52you're just watching.
28:53And so that purity group becomes worship of the people
28:56who know they can't be that.
28:59It's kind of like men worshiping elves,
29:00I suppose,
29:00in that sense.
29:01And it's not,
29:02and when you realize you can't achieve that,
29:05it's what Jesus talked about with the Pharisees.
29:08He said to his disciples,
29:09tongue in cheek,
29:09that your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees.
29:13Because the Pharisees just meant the people who were separated.
29:17They were trying to be even holier,
29:19and people were like,
29:19I can't even be as many as a Pharisee.
29:21So it ended up them slagging off other people,
29:24saying,
29:25well,
29:25you can't be as many as the Pharisees.
29:27The in-group doesn't necessarily even become an in-group.
29:29It's got an external group outside that of people saying,
29:32look at them,
29:33they're the manifested sons of God.
29:35And when he said that about that verse in Romans,
29:38there's another one from Psalms where God says,
29:43you are all sons of God.
29:45So you're all going to be gods one day.
29:48You're going to be sons of gods.
29:49I can't quite remember the term,
29:51but there's a tension.
29:56There is a tension throughout the Bible in terms of these titles.
30:00We may know that a lot of Christians would ask,
30:03is Jesus the son of God?
30:04We have to be aware that that's actually a political title.
30:08Caesar called himself the son of God,
30:10that the various pharaohs do as well.
30:12But no one called themselves the son of man.
30:14So it's quite interesting that whenever new cults start,
30:18they always want to give their followers a title which sounds more holy.
30:21So they're going to say,
30:22they're a manifested son of God.
30:24I'd be fascinated to hear of a cult that calls themselves the manifested sons of men,
30:29because they're maybe using a spiritual term about themselves.
30:34But Jesus actually uses a human term to describe his divinity,
30:37which is quite paradoxical when you think about it.
30:39The Bible does say that we will become gods with a small g,
30:43depending on your understanding of the lowercase English grammar.
30:46But that means we're not going to become Yahweh.
30:49But I suppose we're going to become what God intended us to be at creation,
30:52which is co-participated in his heavenly plan.
30:55And that's not going to happen in 2026 in Kansas or in London or in Norway.
31:01We're not going to be the manifested sons of God now.
31:05And better than sons of gods, we will be gods.
31:08And that's a belief I have because I don't understand it.
31:12I don't understand what Psalms is talking about when it says you will all become gods.
31:19I guess we'll all become some sort of supernatural being,
31:23whatever happens in the new heaven, the new earth.
31:25But whatever that plan is, it's not going to be brought about by someone saying,
31:30give me all of your money in your 20s so that I can own three houses and a plane.
31:34That's not how you manifest the sons of God through financial scams.
31:40That's not going to bring it about, no matter how hard you try in terms of pride or theology.
31:47And I also mentioned in some of the notes I sent to you,
31:52there was something that happened in Sweden about 20, 25 years ago,
31:59over a long period of time,
32:01which was someone in a Pentecostal church where she had been a youth leader in her mid-twenties
32:11and she ended up marrying one of the young men from a youth group.
32:15Warning signs already.
32:17She described herself as the bride of Christ.
32:21And in a rather sort of auto-type, auto-filled scandal,
32:27she ended up sleeping with a lot of people and got people to kill other people in this tiny church.
32:33It was tiny, it was like 50 people there.
32:36So I just got to stop in Sweden.
32:39And again, this idea of the bridal stuff,
32:43it narrows itself down quite quickly from we're the bride of Christ to I'm the bride of Christ
32:50and I'm the bride of Christ, therefore give me your money and or women or young men.
32:56And that's what it tends to look like.
32:58There's a non-Christian called Tom Hollands, not the Spider-Man actor,
33:01who wrote a really good book called Dominion a couple of years ago.
33:05And he said, he's still not a Christian, but I think he's going to become one soon.
33:09He said that the idea of Christianity did away with the idea of purity, in a sense,
33:17because as soon as you are pure and sinless, woe be to anyone who loses that salvation.
33:24You know, whenever I first began studying all of this,
33:28we had such loaded language around that phrase.
33:32You had the manifested sons of God, of course, because that was the phrase from Romans 8.
33:38But you also had the son of man language, the son of God language.
33:43And we had it in such a way that we didn't understand it and we thought it was more than
33:49it was,
33:49which is exactly how a mystery cult works.
33:52I'll never forget the shock whenever I was, what was I was watching?
33:56Narnia.
33:57I was watching Narnia.
33:58And they use the phrase son of Adam quite frequently.
34:02And I started scratching my head.
34:03Wait a minute, son of Adam.
34:04And I went and looked it up.
34:05And sure enough, and I don't know if it's all of the Bible passages,
34:09but in many where it's talking about son of man, it simply means human.
34:13It doesn't mean anything special.
34:15It means literally son of Adam.
34:16You are a descendant from Adam.
34:18And I started thinking about that.
34:20Good Lord.
34:21We had so many different things.
34:23Like, Branham would go on to this rant about how Jesus never came in the name son of man,
34:28son of God.
34:29He came in the name son of Adam because you will be the sons of God.
34:32And he tried to make it something that it wasn't.
34:36Like, Jesus was lesser.
34:37We will become greater.
34:39That's literally how he taught it.
34:41And it was just so wrong and so heretical.
34:44Whenever I heard, what is it, Aslan, the lion, when he says the sons of Adam,
34:49I started researching it and I started reading the passages differently.
34:54Because when you read it in that phrase, if you just replace it with the word human,
34:58now it reads so simply like, you as a human, you have access to this.
35:01You as a human, you will sin.
35:04You will fall.
35:04You as a human, you will do these other things.
35:07But it gives more power to the statement sons of God.
35:10Because what it is saying, essentially, is you were a human, you descended from Adam,
35:16but creation is groaning, waiting for you to become a son of God.
35:21In other words, instead of this lineage where you're a human, you're going to become a little bit more than
35:26a human.
35:27And it doesn't mean anything special.
35:29It just means, literally, God is adopting you as a son or a daughter of God.
35:32When I understood that, I was like, why in the heck did they complicate this so much?
35:38Why did they turn into this big secret mystery?
35:41And as you said earlier, Jesus was the mystery fulfilled.
35:45There shouldn't be any other mysteries.
35:47For anyone interested in a much more powerful realization about the son of man, son of God thing,
35:57I would recommend they look up a guy called Nabeel Qureshi, who for a very short period of time,
36:03he sadly died of cancer.
36:04He was a Muslim evangelist who had a conversion experience.
36:10He got converted to Christianity.
36:12For a very short period of time, he was a fantastic apologist.
36:16And he talked about this son of man, son of God thing, and really explained it to me.
36:23So why does Jesus always prefer the term son of man, the son of man?
36:27Because you're right, it does just mean a human, a son of man.
36:32And gradually through the, it happens during the Apocrypha, the Book of Enoch,
36:38where the son of man is a figure of divine, I guess, appearance,
36:44who slowly comes through proverbs as the idealized manifested human.
36:50So it's interesting that God turns on his head.
36:53He said, rather than us trying to achieve divinity,
36:55it's God managing to achieve humanity in a way that we couldn't do it.
37:00The old saying, you know, if you want to become like God, become a man.
37:06Because that's what Jesus managed.
37:10And Branham completely missed the point there by saying,
37:13ah, Jesus was only the son of man, he'd be the sons of God.
37:15Everyone was the son of God.
37:16Pharaoh was, Caesar was, Putin would have been.
37:20And when everyone tries to, when everyone puts upon themselves a divine title,
37:24they lose it very quickly.
37:26But there's very few people that would say, I am the regular guy.
37:31Who would call themselves that?
37:32I know it might be a phrase sometimes in the US you talk about,
37:35he's a true son of the South.
37:39But if he said, this person is the son of the South.
37:42Well, hang on a second now.
37:43He's like, there is one standard son of the South.
37:46This is who it is.
37:47I have no idea what that would be.
37:49But from a Christian context, the son of man embodies everything it is to be,
37:54everything it should be to be human, which is obedient to God, simply.
37:58That's what Jesus achieved.
38:02Why he doesn't like the term the son of God.
38:07When they do to him and say, are you the son of God, he says, it is as you say,
38:11because it was a political title.
38:13And that idea of it being a political title, you just knew it.
38:17That is very telling, because I know you've been talking more and more recently about how you think this whole
38:24thing, the NIR,
38:25it wasn't even a religious thing.
38:27It was some sort of political thing with the CIA involved and all of that.
38:31And I don't think that's a conspiracy.
38:34When you're talking about the oil stuff in Uganda, I can believe that oil exists.
38:40And it was very common, particularly in North and South America, for the Jesuit missionaries to be quite present on
38:48the slave plantations.
38:49And for people who are misusing God's message to achieve political and oily ideas, really.
38:59And so for the son of God, being a political title, fits very well with the modern manifested sons of
39:05God,
39:06pushing a political agenda, being much more concerned about all of that.
39:12I can't remember if it was mentioned recently.
39:16There's some bill going through in some places about that, some law that is about the statute of limitations.
39:24I haven't quite followed it.
39:26But the people who are against that are often really, some of them are religious groups and some of them
39:30are business groups.
39:31But there's some sort of shady links there.
39:36But I think this modern, charismatic Pentecostal movement has really allied itself with extreme forms of political stuff.
39:46I'm tiptoeing around talking about any political people in particular.
39:51But we do know that certain flags are waved to certain events in January a few years ago.
39:57And those flags were from the NAR.
39:59They are people wanting to manifest their sons of God in a way that means that we should support their
40:05business interests,
40:06at least, which is a very specific way of understanding Revelation 21, Romans 8.
40:12But it seems to go back to money.
40:15I can't quite remember if Jane Lee goes for that angle of wanting everyone to have political power.
40:22I'm not really sure she knew what sort of effects of everything she's saying would have.
40:27But later on in the 18th century, it goes on.
40:30It actually takes a, instead of it being political, it goes very unpolitical.
40:34Because she leads to the Quakers and the Christadelphian society as well, doesn't she?
40:39The Philadelphian, Christadelphian, I'll mix the terms up a bit.
40:43Christadelphian, she leads to them, doesn't she?
40:45What I've come to understand is that these groups, when they get involved with something that's a little bit bigger
40:54than just simply the group themselves,
40:56once it turns into a movement, you have people joining into the movement.
41:00And just by sheer orchestration of evolving and growing the movement,
41:08sometimes it's key to leverage individuals who are in places of power.
41:14I'll just say it like that.
41:15So it's not like she intended to grow into a political movement.
41:19In fact, I wouldn't say that she was even a political movement.
41:22But the things that she did and said through her doctrines played a role in context in some political events.
41:29Many of these groups will go back to anti-Catholic agendas.
41:33So you can find that that's something that's woven all throughout.
41:36And I'm not saying it's good or bad.
41:38But what I'm saying is that in that era, the Catholicism was linked to politics because of Rome.
41:45And so there was a political undertone.
41:48I'll just say it like that.
41:49I think with Jane Lead, there was more, if I remember correct.
41:53What was it?
41:54The Glorious Revolution or something like this.
41:56She had some things that were publicly involved with those contexts.
42:01But fast forward to the NAR today.
42:04It's the same kind of thing.
42:06You may have people who do have a political agenda, who are in positions of leadership,
42:12and they want the others to join in because it helps them with whatever is their political lobbying agendas.
42:20That's why whenever people start talking about any of the modern political issues in the United States,
42:27homosexuality, for example, if you mention that phrase, people just, it's so overloaded what they've been trained to believe with
42:35it.
42:35Whether you agree or disagree, you have a political siding with this because it's part of that political agenda.
42:42However, there are people who are in the same movement who have no political agenda,
42:47who are completely blindsided that there even exists a political agenda,
42:52and they would argue, no, I'm against politics.
42:55I don't want to be part of that political system.
42:58And yet they're part of that political system.
43:00So in the lineup of, you've seen the people behind the king president, which we won't mention his name.
43:07In that lineup, you'll probably see people who are NAR people who do have a political agenda.
43:12You might find some casual person who, by happenstance, got into the same position,
43:17who's a true believer of God, who has, he's there because he thinks that the movement is supporting something
43:24that furthers Christianity, not that it's furthering a political agenda.
43:28So you've got this weird mixture of people, and that's how a movement works.
43:33If a movement doesn't grow, it will never attract people who are in political spaces.
43:38As it grows, if it does attract somebody, well, think of the number of people that we can grow further
43:44if we appeal to that political space.
43:47So it's like the snowball going downhill.
43:49You really don't know what it's going to pick up,
43:51and you don't know if it's a good or bad thing that it's going to pick up.
43:54But sometimes it may pick up something that's bad that makes it strategic for the group to move forward.
44:01And so they'll pick it up, they'll adopt it, they'll move forward in that direction.
44:05And some of the directions may or may not be good, which is really the problem with all of this.
44:09You mentioned the Glorious Revolution, which I think maybe about two other people listening would have heard of before.
44:17And this is one of my speciality knowledges here, which is to do that there's a state in the U
44:24.S. called Maryland,
44:25which was named after Mary, who ascended to the throne in Great Britain and, to a lesser extent, Ireland in
44:3316-something.
44:35The Glorious Revolution in 1690 was when her husband, William, who came over from the Netherlands to keep up,
44:40because he was Protestant at that time.
44:44The previous king, Charles II, whose father, Charles I, he'd been beheaded because he was a very good king.
44:50Charles II was becoming Roman Catholic, and he was like, yeah, thumbs up for the Pope.
44:55And the people of England thought, no, we're not going for that.
44:58So they invited Mary to take the throne.
45:01It's a simplified history there.
45:03But that was what was going on.
45:04A Protestant king had been invited over to reign with Mary, who was a king and queen.
45:11He'd been invited over, and he defeated the Roman Catholic forces in Ireland.
45:19That's where they had the battle in 1690.
45:22And that was a big showdown.
45:23You know, the forces of Protestantism versus Catholicism, and the Protestants won.
45:27And that event is commemorated every 12th of July in Northern Ireland, where they burn Irish flags and effigies of
45:36the Pope in Rome.
45:38And that's, I didn't even think of that until now, that Jane Leed, or at least people in that movement,
45:45wanting to very easily say it's all about defeating the Pope, defeating Roman Catholicism.
45:50Whereas in mainland Europe, France was very nearly the biggest Protestant country in Europe.
45:57But through an era of geography, all of the Protestants were in the southwest of France.
46:02And they just kind of got squeezed out very easily by Spain and France.
46:07And that leads us to a very difficult thing to answer for people of that time.
46:13I mean, people then would have thought, God is supporting the Protestant courts.
46:17Well, not in France.
46:18It seems to have more to do with geographic convenience than actual God's manifested plan for the Protestant cause in
46:26mainland Europe.
46:27But I can certainly see now that Jane Leed would have, well, her writings and the people who want a
46:35political struggle would have been very anti-Catholic at that time.
46:40That was what was going on in Great Britain and Ireland, is other papists going to win.
46:47Is Great Britain and Ireland going to be oriented back towards Rome?
46:51Or will the Protestants win a military victory in those two islands?
46:56And it probably just had to do with geography.
46:59Catholic forces didn't have much of a navy.
47:01It seems a bit demeaning to God's plan for the Protestant cause.
47:06But sometimes things go well.
47:10Sometimes they don't.
47:11The Netherlands were very Protestant.
47:13And they go again and again by Spain.
47:16That was what was going on politically at the time.
47:18And the person who I mentioned earlier, Henry Dodwell, who didn't think much of a navy.
47:23Interestingly there, he was kicked out of the church because he didn't take the oath of allegiance to William and
47:29Mary.
47:30So he was not interested in political power.
47:33He would rather oppose the king and queen than get political power.
47:38That's an interesting quirk there.
47:40The person who I read who opposed to her was not interested in political power in that sense.
47:48Yeah, that's about as much I've got to say politically there.
47:52By one caveat, I am involved locally in politics in Norway.
47:57The things we talk about are don't turn left signs on the main thoroughfare in town to reduce traffic flow.
48:06Getting involved in politics.
48:08Politics comes from the Greek word polis, which means city.
48:13And Jeremiah called everyone to seek the welfare of the city in which you live.
48:17And you're not going to sit in council meetings and say, well, I'm against homosexuality.
48:21They say, great, not great, irrelevant.
48:24We're talking about roundabouts.
48:26We're talking about zoning laws.
48:27We're talking about which schools need to be shut.
48:30If you want to get involved in politics as a Christian and to genuinely help at a local level,
48:35you need to focus on traffic, schools, hospitals, where are we going to build the next road?
48:40That's all it means.
48:41Whereas Jane Lead putting up the manifested that politicians won't work.
48:49Jane Lead, that's not what she meant.
48:51She meant something for extremely high and convoluted.
48:53But it's made me realize within the Christian life, when you shoot, when you aim high and shoot high,
48:59you're often going to miss and try and train to be a manifested son of God.
49:04But when you go for a very low resolution attempt at being a Christian, you end up hitting home.
49:12Something I said when I was on previously, people seem to appreciate.
49:16So I always kind of round things off with the Lord of the Rings reference.
49:19And people say, why can't you mention the Bible?
49:21You know, it's so passe with the Bible.
49:23Let's talk about what things people understand these days.
49:26But I think it's because you said that there can be a lot of loaded language in the Bible.
49:30And if I talk about the Holy Spirit or even Pentecost, everyone's got their own association.
49:34No one's going to twist the words of Samwise Gamgee, you know, that's that's a fresh way of explaining it.
49:40So I don't think there's anyone unfamiliar with Lord of the Rings.
49:44But when Sam puts on the ring, let's put on the ring to escape being killed by the orcs.
49:50Sam has a vision of him with a flaming sword.
49:54Banners coming all around him, rallying to his courts to defeat Sauron because he's got the ring.
50:00He thinks, actually, I don't want to establish a kingdom where everyone's my slaves trying to make the world greener.
50:08I want my own small garden at which I can end with my own hands, which is a very powerful
50:17statement.
50:17Sam put on the ring, but he rejected the political power associated with it.
50:22He wanted a much smaller scale vision of prosperity and thriving.
50:28And I am still scanning diligently that Pentecostal charismatic N.A.R. leader who says, this is the year of
50:38mediocrity.
50:40This is the year of minimum wage jobs.
50:42You are going to be the manifested job seeker.
50:46You are going to mow the lawn outside and plant a few trees and do a bit of allotmenting and
50:53grow your own.
50:54And then you won't have enough money at the end of the month and you're going to have to buy
50:58some cornflakes.
50:59You know, just very kind of mundane ways of living as a Christian.
51:02And that is all part of God's plan to live very simply.
51:08So from Jane Leeds manifested, Sons of God and the forerunners from IHOPKC and the latter rain,
51:15I would just love to introduce terms to the Christian life of claiming the year of it was all right.
51:26You know, describing yourself as I am a steadily bumbling along Christian.
51:33And not the false sense of humility that says everyone tins a little bit, don't they?
51:38But actually just saying my vision of what I would like to achieve is, even for myself,
51:45it would be to get about seven hours sleep a night and maybe down to two cups of tea or
51:50coffee a day and eat a bit less sugar.
51:53I mean, you've got a great testimony there, sort of low-scale testimony of somebody who escaped from being pre
51:59-diabetic.
52:00And, you know, these are small victories that everyone should be like, yeah, that's pretty good.
52:05You know, go for that.
52:07That's going to affect a lot more people, your testimony of escaping being pre-diabetic,
52:12rather than saying, I grew a foot back or something or chewed out chicken bits and there's cancer coming out
52:20of my mouth.
52:21All of that's a lie.
52:22Whereas if you went to a healing ceremony and say, who is diabetic, who is going to put up their
52:27hands?
52:28These are the sort of things that need to be healed.
52:31That's where we need the manifested sons of God actually working.
52:35And for the final Lord of the Rings reference,
52:39Aragorn, when he comes into Minas Tirith, heals a lot of people.
52:43And because it was a prophecy that the hands of the king are the hands of the healer,
52:46I don't think it's Tolkien trying to insert any biblical references.
52:49It's just about saying to rule, it's to help and to heal.
52:53And that's what Tolkien is saying he wants his king to do,
52:58to be a doctor, to walk around and help people.
53:00Aragorn could have come into Minas Tirith and say,
53:02well, everyone needs to give me all of their money and wives,
53:05and I'm going to create a new city over there.
53:09Zion, Indiana?
53:11No, Zion, Illinois.
53:11There's a lot of weird stuff going on there with Parham, from what I remember.
53:15Wacko cult leaders always want to establish a new city somewhere.
53:19Whereas people want to, or be colonists and go to the new world.
53:24But the worst kind of cults, the most pedestrian churches,
53:29say to you, don't get a new job, stay what you're doing,
53:33stay living where you are.
53:34You don't need to change all that much more,
53:36because you can't really become that much better anyway,
53:40which is a radical idea for the Christian life.
53:43You can change, you can repent,
53:45but I don't think you're going to,
53:47I don't pray for people to become rich or get a bigger house or anything.
53:51But the utopia, which I would hope for,
53:57is, yeah, as Samuel Scamiji said,
53:59being a gardener, tending your own land or running your own IT business
54:02and, you know, getting something that's achievable
54:07rather than very confusing Latin terms.
54:12And I know some people you've been interviewing
54:16have talked about the issues of white colonialism going in as a Christian
54:20and reiterate my points around language there.
54:24We would frown at Latin terms,
54:27but we have to bear in mind that the majority of people
54:30aren't English speakers in the world.
54:32And English-speaking Christianity,
54:35through the power of the Anglican Church of England,
54:37and then the US later on,
54:38means that what we think of high convoluted Latin
54:43manifested, all these funny terms,
54:45predestination.
54:46Most people, normal English,
54:48is the Latin, if you get what I'm saying there,
54:51so that they would use very poorly translated terms
54:54into Norwegian or Swahili or Chinese
54:56and then think that they're saying something spiritual,
54:59whereas you and I would just say,
55:00well, that doesn't really make any sense, sorry.
55:03So that's my final hip shot on Jane Leed and her Latin music.
55:07So my final hip shot,
55:08we'll actually go back to the pre-diabetic thing.
55:10I was pre-diabetic.
55:12I did fasting.
55:13I lost 45 pounds, 45 days,
55:15and I warded it off for a period of time.
55:18I'm actually now fully diabetic,
55:20so it didn't last.
55:24But that's the point.
55:26When you're in one of these movements
55:27and something like that happens,
55:29you're devastated because the devil got you.
55:31And now I'm just like,
55:33you take one day at a time as a Christian,
55:36and kind of like you said,
55:37I just want to be the guy who eats cornflakes.
55:39I don't want to be the one who had this great miracle
55:42that didn't stick with me.
55:45You know what I mean?
55:45And that's the kind of life that we had to live.
55:47I remember people.
55:49I knew people that were diabetic
55:50when we were in the movement.
55:52And I remember them talking about
55:54those people who weren't in our group
55:56that had our secret,
55:57and they didn't have the same access to healing.
56:00And I'm looking around,
56:01scratching my head,
56:01thinking,
56:02he's diabetic.
56:03He's got lupus.
56:04She's got lupus.
56:05I'm going down all of these lines of people.
56:08They're all sick and afflicted, man,
56:10but they think they have something they don't have.
56:12And I no longer think this,
56:14and I have some things wrong.
56:16I have some things that are actually getting better.
56:18So for me,
56:19I take one day at a time.
56:20I don't have to live with a secret mystery.
56:23And this nonsense about this mystery cult
56:27that exists in today's world,
56:29I say you're happier without it.
56:30That's my final speech.
56:33So thank you so much for doing this.
56:35Thanks.
56:35Well, if you've enjoyed our show
56:36and you want more information,
56:37you can check us out on the web.
56:39You can find us at william-branham.org.
56:41For more about the dark side
56:43of the new apostolic reformation,
56:44you can read Weaponized Religion
56:46from Christian Identity to the NAR.
56:48Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
57:19Weaponized Religion
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