- 17 hours ago
John examines the forgotten "minor prophets" and reinforcing voices who helped build the larger prophetic movements that later fed into Latter Rain, Branhamism, IHOPKC, and the New Apostolic Reformation. Instead of focusing only on the headline figures, he traces the lesser-known supporters, interpreters, endorsers, and network-builders who made the major personalities believable, portable, and durable.
From Anna Schrader and Myrtle Beale to Lee Vayle and the wider Voice of Healing orbit, the discussion explores how second-tier prophetic voices validated leaders, translated their claims for ordinary audiences, and kept mythology alive between major revival events. The result is a deeper look at how movements spread, how abusive systems become sustainable, and why forgotten names may be more important than the stars on the platform.
00:00 Introduction
05:37 Why Minor Prophets Matter In IHOPKC And Latter Rain History
11:24 Supportive Dreams, Prophecies, And Movement Credibility
16:26 Anna Schrader, Ahab And Jezebel, And Political Prophecy
21:10 William Branham, Voice Of Healing, And The Rise Of Major Figures
28:25 Lee Vayle, Seven Letters, And The Power Of Reinforcement
36:43 Why This Is More Than Guilt By Association
42:06 How The Middle Tier Keeps The Mythology Alive
48:00 Abuse, Enabling Structures, And The Platforming Problem
51:48 Why The Echo Network Matters More Than The Famous Leader
55:36 Closing Thoughts
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
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From Anna Schrader and Myrtle Beale to Lee Vayle and the wider Voice of Healing orbit, the discussion explores how second-tier prophetic voices validated leaders, translated their claims for ordinary audiences, and kept mythology alive between major revival events. The result is a deeper look at how movements spread, how abusive systems become sustainable, and why forgotten names may be more important than the stars on the platform.
00:00 Introduction
05:37 Why Minor Prophets Matter In IHOPKC And Latter Rain History
11:24 Supportive Dreams, Prophecies, And Movement Credibility
16:26 Anna Schrader, Ahab And Jezebel, And Political Prophecy
21:10 William Branham, Voice Of Healing, And The Rise Of Major Figures
28:25 Lee Vayle, Seven Letters, And The Power Of Reinforcement
36:43 Why This Is More Than Guilt By Association
42:06 How The Middle Tier Keeps The Mythology Alive
48:00 Abuse, Enabling Structures, And The Platforming Problem
51:48 Why The Echo Network Matters More Than The Famous Leader
55:36 Closing Thoughts
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org, where history proves that truth, or at least their version of it,
00:46is truly stranger than fiction. Today I'm diving into the discussion about the minor prophets.
00:53And no, I know what you're thinking, not those minor prophets, not the biblical ones.
00:57But I want to talk about the minor prophets that nobody really thinks about, that are
01:03really behind the creation of the New Apostolic Reformation. We all know the big names. If you
01:08look at the NAR today, you've got the Mike Bickles, the Bill Johnsons. Go back in history,
01:13in the healing revivals, you've got the Branham's, the A.A. Allen's. But what about all of those
01:19little people? The people who were prophets in the five-fold ministry, but not the ones who created
01:26their own spin-off movements, some of which turned into destructive cults. It is actually one of the
01:34most important questions that nobody asks. Why are these little people forgotten? And what was their
01:42significance? Because you don't hear their names. In the Old Testament, you had the major prophets and
01:48the minor prophets. And I know that the healing revivals and large portions of Pentecostalism kind of
01:55spin this in the incorrect direction. A major prophet is somebody who has great importance,
02:01and a minor prophet was a lesser important prophet in that viewpoint. But in the Bible context,
02:09in the context of the canon, a major prophet means that this is a person who was a prophet of
02:16the Old
02:17Testament, and we have a large number of his prophecies. And then the minor prophets, we don't
02:23have very much. It doesn't mean that there's a ranking system of prophets. But in the Lateran movement,
02:31post-World War II healing revival, New Apostolic Reformation, there is a ranking system. There are
02:37major prophets, and there are minor prophets. The major prophets are remembered. The minor prophets
02:43are forgotten. That's really important to understand, because if you understand why that is,
02:50then you understand just how deceptive the whole thing is. And I came across this thought a long,
02:58long time ago. As I'm digging through these histories, and I'm learning what I came out of,
03:03I came out of Branhamism, and I'm trying to understand, well, how did this come to be?
03:08And I started realizing that there were names that I heard that nobody else had heard,
03:14because in our group, we listened to the recordings of William Branham from 1947 to 1965 over and over
03:23and over. I would hear it from the beginning of my life until the day that I left. We were
03:29listening
03:29to these recordings. So we were stuck in an era that is long forgotten. And many of these names that
03:37most of the world has no clue even existed, we heard because some of them were minor prophets.
03:44They were prophets who were long forgotten, and they weren't of great importance in the movement.
03:48What does this mean from a biblical standpoint? In the Bible, again, there was no ranking system. There
03:56was no hierarchy. And the prophecies themselves were all significant. It didn't matter if it was one of the
04:03minor prophets or a major prophets, because in the biblical system, the prophet is not the one doing
04:10the speaking. It is God using the human as a mouthpiece, and the mouthpiece speaks directly what
04:17God is saying. That's why there cannot be a single detail that is off. Otherwise, it didn't come from God.
04:24Because if you believe in an omnipotent, all knowing God, you can't miss details. That's not the same way
04:33with the Pentecostal prophets, the Lateran prophets, the New Apostolic Reformation prophets,
04:39charismatic prophets. In that succession, you can miss details as long as you get something right.
04:46If you get one detail right, God must have given you that detail. And God was wrong about all those
04:52other details. And so we'll change our history to match the big detail that we got right. And let's
04:58just forget about the problems with this prophecy. That's kind of how this worked.
05:02And so in this revision process, the major prophets, the one who we remember today,
05:10are remembered for their quote-unquote accurate prophecies that have been revised over time.
05:16And the minor prophets, those whose prophecies are not revised, they remain stagnant. They're not
05:24updated. They're not refreshed. They're not cleaned for accuracy. They're not removed. Whenever the
05:31prophecy fails, they don't remove it from a prophetic history. So these guys just kind of get forgotten.
05:37But yet they are one of the most important factors. Think about IHOPKC. IHOPKC, the face of the movement, is
05:47Mike Bickel,
05:48International House of Prayer in Kansas City is the acronym, if people aren't familiar. He is the face of that
05:54movement. And he is a large reason why the New Apostolic Reformation came to be. It was through all these
06:00networks of connecting people and faces.
06:03And it's a history we cover if you want to learn more. But think about that. He is the major
06:09prophet.
06:11Then you have the Kansas City Prophets, Kansas City Fellowship. People often ask me, why that? Why do we need,
06:21like Bob Jones, people who knew him, people who saw his prophecies, saw his appearance, the way that he acted.
06:28They're like scratching their head. Why do we need this guy? Mike Bickel is the face of the movement. Why
06:34in that succession was he so important?
06:36We have to understand he is one of the minor prophets. He did not start his own movement.
06:42There are huge flaws with many aspects of him. I won't go into this podcast.
06:48People are aware of those because his histories are not being revised and rewritten.
06:54In fact, some of them are being erased. If you talk to some of the people who are in the
07:00know in IHOPKC who have escaped,
07:03they'll tell you that these prophetic histories continue to be revised.
07:08And why is this, John?
07:09Well, it comes back to the fact that there are major prophets in the movement, minor prophets.
07:15Now, in the latter rain movement, the interesting part of all of this,
07:19now that we start to see the fruits of the ministry,
07:22we start to see people who are prophets or apostles in the movement
07:27who have deep, deep theological, personal, sometimes criminal flaws.
07:35People who see this, they see the climax of what happened.
07:39They don't see the steps in between.
07:41And so they start investigating.
07:42Where did this come from?
07:44And they'll hear a phrase like,
07:46share an orphanage, for example.
07:48So you look at Sharon Orphanage, who was in that network?
07:50You have George Houghton, Earn Houghton, Percy Hunt, Herrick Holt.
07:55You've got this group of men who started the Sharon Orphanage.
07:58They weren't necessarily prophets per se,
08:01although one of them may have had a prophecy.
08:05But this was a tier that was backing the overall movement.
08:09So in the ranking system, if you think of it like a pyramid,
08:12at the top, you've got the people who are the faces of the movement.
08:16Then directly under this are the people who are supporting those faces.
08:20Let me explain this in a different way.
08:23Let's say that I decide I want to be famous.
08:27And I book a convention center downtown.
08:31I go downtown.
08:32I invite everybody, advertise, marketing, etc.
08:35And start preaching.
08:37I get people in the audience to get really emotional, excited,
08:41do all of the things that charismatics do.
08:43And then suddenly at the end of it, after I have toyed with their emotions
08:47and manipulated them to be open boxes that I can fill,
08:53I start to say, I had a prophecy.
08:57And you must change every single aspect of your life because my prophecy is true.
09:03Who's going to do it, right?
09:05Who's going to believe this?
09:06They would say, John, you're nuts.
09:08And many people would walk out of here, right?
09:10So it isn't just that a person can claim it.
09:15That makes them a self-proclaimed prophet.
09:19And if that were the case, every single prophet that we see in Charismania,
09:24New Apostolic Reformation, they would all be branded self-proclaimed prophets,
09:29it's not apostles and prophets with prophetic insight in a prophetic movement.
09:34That's not how it works.
09:36Now, in that same event, say that I brought five people with me.
09:41And the five people are on stage.
09:43I tell my prophecy.
09:44Everybody's scratching their heads thinking,
09:46I don't really want to change my life.
09:48And walk away from families and all of the many weird things that they ask you to do.
09:54But then suddenly, one of those five stands up and says,
09:58I'm a prophet too.
10:00And I had a prophecy very similar to what he just said.
10:03Let me tell you what it is.
10:05And then they start to say something that is so generic,
10:09so, I don't know, mystic, so symbolic that matches what I said in some form,
10:16maybe not as accurate,
10:18but just enough to make the person think about their prophecy.
10:23It may not be detailed.
10:25It may not even have any substance.
10:27But maybe there's that one element that sounds,
10:30yeah, that could sound like John's prophecy.
10:32I wonder if it is.
10:33And the people start scratching their heads thinking,
10:36well, maybe it is.
10:38And then the next person does it.
10:40Then the next person, next person.
10:41Before that meeting is over,
10:44there will be a percentage, not all,
10:46but there will be a large percentage of people in there
10:49that at least have the question planted,
10:52I wonder if John really is a prophet.
10:55He says he is.
10:56Those other people, their prophecies sound like it.
10:59I wonder.
11:00And so they go home,
11:02they start looking into it,
11:03and they think about it.
11:04They read the Bible.
11:05They start to see identifying markers of things that I said in my prophecy,
11:11purposefully,
11:12that matched some scripture that they read.
11:14And a subset of those people will suddenly say,
11:18oh, my gosh, John is a prophet.
11:20Let's abandon everything and join.
11:23And as weird as that sounds,
11:26that really is how this played out.
11:28You have so many people in the movement doing this.
11:31And it doesn't even necessarily have to be a prophecy.
11:35There are examples.
11:36We've talked about it in the Revival History series.
11:38There are people who aren't even recognized as a minor prophet who had a
11:45supportive dream.
11:47And the dreams,
11:49if you go back into the examples that we gave,
11:52they're supporting prophecies that did not come to pass.
11:55So you have to ask the question first,
11:57was it a dream from God?
11:59Because if the prophecy didn't come to pass,
12:01and the supportive dream was about that prophecy,
12:04well, I don't think that was from God.
12:06But the next question really becomes,
12:09did that person really have that dream?
12:11Or were they just trying to support and encourage the crowd to believe the
12:15prophet?
12:16I have come to the conclusion,
12:18and it is my opinion,
12:20that you have both.
12:21You have people who truly have something happen,
12:24whether it's of God or not,
12:26and they believe what happened to them,
12:30whether it's a vision or prophecy,
12:32a dream,
12:33et cetera.
12:33Those people in that category,
12:36they're not trying to deceive people.
12:38They just had something happen.
12:40And they don't,
12:41they don't really have the tools to determine,
12:44was that from God or was that just something that happened?
12:47On the other hand,
12:49we clearly have shown examples where people purposefully said things that
12:54weren't true of the spiritual nature to back or support something that the
13:00movement presented.
13:01And for me,
13:03when you combine those two categories,
13:05it really doesn't matter if one side is truly believing what they said and
13:11the other side is not.
13:12The end result is the same.
13:14The people will believe the stage act that is supposed to eventually become the
13:19major prophet.
13:20So this turns into this weird mess that you go through the names and I mentioned
13:26Percy Hunt,
13:27Holt,
13:27et cetera,
13:28because people are researching this.
13:30Those names are familiar until they did.
13:33They were long forgotten.
13:34Nobody,
13:35nobody heard the name George Warnock until now we start to investigate the
13:39manifested sons of God.
13:40Who is this guy?
13:41And they don't even realize that many of Warnock's ideas came from Branham and
13:45Branham ism as it was developing.
13:48So the true history is kind of loss.
13:52People like Myrtle Beal,
13:54that is a name in Latter Rain.
13:56If you're in a Latter Rain circle,
13:57you know this name because she is one of the supportive prophets.
14:01In fact,
14:01I think she rose up to become,
14:03you'd call her major preacher in the Latter Rain movement,
14:06I guess.
14:07Well,
14:08she had a prophetic voice that some of the details,
14:11many people have forgotten.
14:12She was apparently the one who laid hands on Jim Jones of Jonestown and said,
14:18God has given me the,
14:19the spirit of anointing to anoint you as this new leader of the movement.
14:24And he was joining into the Branham movement.
14:27Do we,
14:27we have evidence supporting this on the website.
14:31She laid hands on him and look what happened with Jonestown.
14:34You had so many people that died with this.
14:37Was that an anointing by God?
14:39No,
14:39but this is another person supporting the claim that Jones is vindicated as a true
14:46messenger or true minister in the fivefold ministry of Latter Rain.
14:51We have a person named Anna Schrader who Chino and I have mentioned a few times was the equivalent
14:57of Myrtle Beal with regards to Hobart Freeman.
15:01She was working directly with Christ for the nation's founder,
15:04Gordon Lindsay and others in the voice of healing movement.
15:09And she apparently told Hobart Freeman that he was anointed as this new minister right after
15:16William Branham died,
15:17which gets really odd when you think about it.
15:19Here we have Branham going off the scene,
15:22who is the leader of the movement.
15:24Now we have to find a new leader.
15:25Suddenly Hobart Freeman's elected and the rest is history.
15:29His,
15:29his called,
15:30there are a lot of people who died as well in his called,
15:33but not many people know the name Anna Schrader.
15:36I know it because Schrader was one of the ones who apparently are allegedly prophesied that
15:42William Branham would die after most of the movement had revolted.
15:47There was this period of time in history when many of the minor prophets and some of the
15:52major prophets all condemned Branham for his serpent seed doctrine,
15:57which was very racist and anti-Semitic.
16:00They rose up against him and they began to prophesy,
16:03this guy is out.
16:05And again,
16:06you have to question was that really from God or did they just want to save face whenever it was
16:11recognized that this was a racist that was backed by some of the more racist and more sinister
16:17parts of American history.
16:19But Anna Schrader is a name that most of you are not familiar with until we start bringing it up.
16:25But the problem is she was apparently a prophetess in the movement.
16:30So what does it mean to be a prophetess or a minor prophet in the movement?
16:34And I'm pulling up a prophecy that later was titled Jezebel and Ahab must be dethroned.
16:41And you can find this if you go online,
16:43you can find some of Anna Schrader's prophecies that were preserved.
16:47The problem for me is that a large number of them were not preserved.
16:52And why is that?
16:54For a movement that is teaching that these are Old Testament style prophets
16:58and the prophecies are given directly by God to the church to prepare them for the last days,
17:04would not you think that those prophecies to prepare you would be important?
17:09And apparently they're not by these minor prophets.
17:12So in this prophecy, Jezebel and Ahab must be dethroned.
17:17There are a few key things that you must understand about how all of this works.
17:22Number one, these prophecies are very, very vague.
17:26In the Bible, whenever it was prophesied about Jezebel and Ahab,
17:31it was literally about Jezebel and Ahab.
17:34So whenever they're talking about Jezebel and Ahab in this context,
17:38they're actually referring to a sitting president and his wife.
17:43However, by using the term Jezebel, the name Jezebel, the name Ahab,
17:49now you have made this prophecy vague enough that you can resurrect it and you can apply it to any
17:53prophet
17:54or any president that is sitting in office.
17:57All you have to do is say, we're against this president and we rise up against the Jezebel and Ahab
18:02that's sitting in office, right?
18:04In the years of JFK, which were very short, I should say months of JFK,
18:11he was the Ahab and Jacqueline Kennedy was the Jezebel by all of these people.
18:18William Branham had sermons about how he needed to go dethrone Jezebel and Ahab.
18:22So we don't have a date for when this prophecy from Anna Schrader was.
18:27However, there are enough voices that are speaking against Kennedy during that era
18:33that most likely this was a prophecy given about President Kennedy,
18:37which is probably why they don't talk about this prophecy very much.
18:41But as you can see, and I've got it up on the screen if you're watching the YouTube version of
18:46this,
18:47they're using biblical symbolism on purpose to target individuals in politics
18:54and try to make the connection in the people's minds between the evil characters of the Bible
19:00and people who are actually in office in an elected official position.
19:05This, for me, is another big problem of the movement.
19:08Number one, if it was by God, would not you think that God would just name the individuals that we're
19:14targeting?
19:14And that's not what happened here.
19:17Number two, Schrader said, you must meet them face to face and tell them,
19:22as Elijah told them, that God had answered by fire.
19:26He was God.
19:27Now, in the face of this movement, the foremost leader of the post-World War II healing revival
19:34was William Branham.
19:35And there were many, many people in the movement that believed that he was the return of the biblical Elijah.
19:41And Branham had prophecies about, quote-unquote, Jezebel and Ahab in office.
19:49So you had Branham who's saying this.
19:51He is the major prophet of the movement.
19:53You had the minor prophets that were supporting them with things like this.
19:58And you can see how all this would play out into the minds of the people.
20:02Suddenly, everybody is revolting against JFK and Jacqueline Kennedy because we have now multiple voices who are targeting them,
20:11saying that these are the people who God has appointed us to attack in our day.
20:17So how did all of this begin?
20:18That is really the most important question here, understanding how the movement began to deviate from the biblical definitions of
20:29apostles,
20:29prophets, evangelists, and teachers, and then began to separate into hierarchies of what we consider a major prophet of the
20:37movement
20:37and a minor prophet of the movement, creating these structures that aren't biblical, don't really exist in the Bible,
20:44and then began to proclaim that they are Old Testament-style prophets.
20:49When you understand that history, how it evolved, you begin to understand how people who were so-called major prophets
20:56in the movement
20:57could be given such authority and control over the people that phrases like touch not God's anointed would apply to
21:05people
21:05who really didn't have any anointing at all.
21:09Now, that is a history that, to really understand, you have to go back to Branham.
21:15Branham was, at one point in time, recognized in the newspapers, or I should say advertised in the newspapers,
21:22as America's voice of healing, and he began touring under that platform, that name,
21:28and for one reason or another, he got more famous than some of the other healers,
21:34and there were many that existed in that era.
21:37He began to become a little bit more famous, and eventually his advertisement turned into him writing a column in
21:45a PCI newsletter,
21:47PCI standing for Pentecostal Church Incorporated,
21:51and that column and that newsletter eventually was replaced by the Voice of Healing publication,
21:56and it was advertised as an inter-evangelical, in other words, there are many evangelists out there,
22:03many healers out there, an inter-evangelical publication of the Branham healing campaigns.
22:09So this initially began with him as the face of the movement,
22:13and what happened over time is that those inter-evangelicals, the other evangelists in the movement,
22:21began to have faces, but from its inception, Branham was supposed to be the face of the movement,
22:27and the others were supposed to be the lesser figures, or if you consider the fact that he was claiming
22:34to be prophet,
22:35he would be the prophet, and everyone else would have been a quote-unquote minor prophet in the movement.
22:41That was the initial structure, but it didn't take long before I think both he and I know Gordon Lindsay
22:49recognized
22:49that there's a lot of power in creating more than just one main figure.
22:54We need major figures in the movement, and yes, we still must have the minor figures,
22:59because I explained earlier how all of that worked.
23:02So within just a brief period of time, this inter-evangelical campaign that was publishing
23:09William Branham's ministry suddenly morphed into, now we're publishing many major figures,
23:16and the initial group was smaller, you know, there might have been 15, 20 different people,
23:22but if you read through the magazine, they're giving names and faces of others in the movement
23:28who are supporting the idea that we're involved in this healing revival.
23:32So essentially what happened is Branham comes out saying that we are in a healing revival,
23:38God has come down in our midst, we have the prophets, the angels,
23:41all of the many things that were part of the stage show, and we have others doing similar stage shows.
23:48Therefore, is not God in our presence?
23:51Just like I said before, I could come out and I could say God has given me a prophecy.
23:55Do you believe me?
23:56Well, I don't know if you do or not, but if I have people supporting me,
24:00now I've got a better chance of you believing me.
24:02Well, Branham and Lindsay were trying to make the argument,
24:05we have this move of God that is coming in the form of revival.
24:10It is a healing revival.
24:11We have a face.
24:13We have a man who's claiming it.
24:14Well, now we have these supportive figures who are also echoing what he is saying.
24:19So to summarize, in this type of environment,
24:23these big prophetic movements are never built by one major prophet.
24:28In other words, there isn't a single person who God is speaking through,
24:32and God is in control of not only the speaker, the prophet,
24:37but also the people to be receptive to this person.
24:41This type of strategy requires a second tier above that top tier.
24:46It's a second tier of prophetesses, conference speakers, writers, interpreters, endorsers, advertising, networks.
24:54There's an entire business element to this that is required for a major prophet to become that status in the
25:02movement.
25:02And if you don't have that structure, this never could have worked.
25:07So there was a business organization behind it, and it was churning out these ministries.
25:13And to the detriment of Christianity in America, Canada, and abroad,
25:18some of those ministries that were endorsed weren't very good ones,
25:21but yet they were required as that second tier so that we could have the top tier.
25:26And those top tiers became big names in the movement.
25:29Like I said, Branham, A.A. Allen, Oral Roberts.
25:32You had many different ministries which evolved into many different directions,
25:37such as the Prosperity Gospel Movement, the Word of Faith Movement, etc.
25:42All of those people came back to the central hub, the central business organization,
25:48and it was the central hub that created the ability to network all of this.
25:55When C. Peter Wagner coined the term New Apostolic Reformation,
26:02he admitted that he wasn't inventing something new.
26:05He was describing something that preexisted.
26:08And he went into details, and he told people about the middle tier.
26:12We have all of these networks, all of these people, conferences, working together in that middle tier.
26:19And in that middle tier, we're all a cohesive unit.
26:22I therefore declare this to be the New Apostolic Reformation.
26:27What was kind of missing from that, and I think forgotten to history,
26:32is the fact that that middle tier was built for a very specific purpose.
26:38To elevate these ministries of the major prophets,
26:40and that second tier was just describing an entire labyrinth of networks
26:45that were part of this healing revival movement,
26:48as well as other movements beyond the healing revival.
26:52So, in essence, everybody knows the major names,
26:55but these movements were not built by these individuals.
27:00It was that second tier that's most important to understand
27:04why their ministries began and how they could flourish.
27:07If you recognize the historical significance of this,
27:12you begin to ask the question,
27:14well, is that tier needed in a biblical ministry?
27:18If God is the one who's all-powerful and in control of everything,
27:22does God really need a business entity to make it work?
27:26Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,
27:30or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
27:35charismatic, and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation?
27:40You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
27:45william-branham.org.
27:47On the books page of the website,
27:49you can find the compiled research of John Collins,
27:52Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery,
27:55John McKinnon, and others,
27:57with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
28:01You can also find resources and documentation
28:04on various people and topics related to those movements.
28:08If you want to contribute to the cause,
28:10you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
28:14And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version
28:19that you're listening to or watching.
28:21On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,
28:23we want to thank you for your support.
28:26I've mentioned this on a few of the podcasts,
28:28but there is a little-known figure named Lee Vale
28:31who was very important to the establishment of what became Branhamism
28:37and eventually became the New Apostolic Reformation.
28:41Lee Vale is considered by some to be William Branham's publisher.
28:44But he wasn't just that.
28:47He was one of these reaffirming figures that I'm referring to.
28:51And again, some of the reaffirming figures were not just simply
28:57prophets or prophetesses.
28:59You had the five-fold ministry structure,
29:01which enabled in this type of environment
29:05the notion that a preacher who is not a prophet
29:09can speak under the anointing
29:11and therefore, by sheer definition of biblical prophecy,
29:14that is a prophet,
29:15which is why some of them claim
29:18that anything that they say might be a prophecy,
29:20which it gets really weird
29:22when you think of all of the implications of this.
29:25But all of that aside,
29:28Lee Vale is a name that many people just do not know.
29:31In the charismatic movement, he's unheard of.
29:33Latter Rain, he is long forgotten.
29:36But he was one of the figures who was supporting
29:38William Branham's themes that Branham would introduce.
29:43There was a letter that was withheld from the public
29:46until after Branham's death.
29:48Branham would send these audio letters,
29:50kind of like we would on our iPhones today
29:52when we send an audio text message.
29:55Branham would hit record
29:56and then record a reel-to-reel or whatever it was,
30:00send it to Lee Vale,
30:01and here's my note.
30:02And that's how he would do it.
30:04Well, we have a audio letter
30:07where William Branham is telling Lee Vale,
30:10I'm going to go say this thing,
30:13whatever it is,
30:14I want you to back it up,
30:16but I want you to begin
30:17laying the foundation for this.
30:19One of the things that we've mentioned
30:21and we detected,
30:22Branham came up with this weird, weird idea
30:26to separate his ministry
30:29from Billy Graham's ministry.
30:30He decided that he could use
30:33the biblical name Abraham
30:34and put emphasis on the ham part of Abraham
30:39because his name, Branham,
30:41had the same last three letters.
30:44And the difference between his last name
30:47and Graham or Graham,
30:50Billy Graham had six letters in his last name
30:54while William Branham had seven in his last name.
30:57Abraham has seven letters in it,
31:00so therefore Branham must be more biblical,
31:02more righteous than Billy Graham.
31:05It's a weird, weird thing
31:07that people today,
31:08if they knew that this was part
31:10of the latter range strategy,
31:11they would just shake their head,
31:13what were these people thinking?
31:16People who have actually seen the ancient Hebrew,
31:19they're aware that the word,
31:21the letters used for Abraham,
31:23it's only four letters in the Hebrew.
31:25So the argument of seven letters
31:27does not make any sense at all.
31:30But that was the argument.
31:31Branham ran with it.
31:33He told Lee Vail,
31:34now I'm going to spell out my name,
31:36A-B-R-A-H-A-M,
31:39and it would be really good for you,
31:41Dr. Vail.
31:42Dr. Vail was a nickname.
31:44He wasn't actually a doctor of divinity.
31:47It'd be really good for you, Dr. Vail,
31:48if you would emphasize the fact
31:52that I have seven letters in my last name
31:54and Abraham had seven letters in his.
31:57What's interesting about this is,
32:00this, fast forward to 19,
32:03when did I start beginning to,
32:05I began to start to understand
32:07Branhamism in the 80s.
32:09So 1980-ish,
32:11we're still thinking about the seven letters
32:14in the name of William Branham,
32:15who has been dead since 1965.
32:18So for us,
32:20this was an important prophecy,
32:21or I guess you would say anointed speaking.
32:24It wasn't really a prophecy.
32:26Fast forward to 2012 when we left,
32:29it wasn't until 2012
32:31that I began to realize
32:32this isn't important at all
32:34and has no relationship whatsoever
32:36to my walk with Jesus Christ
32:39when I began to leave this movement
32:41and start to enter Christian churches.
32:43Christian churches could care less
32:45if their pastor had seven names
32:47in the last name of his given name.
32:51So why this?
32:54Why would you have something
32:55so incredibly absurd?
32:58The only reason is
33:00because of the power
33:02of taking something you're saying
33:04as a major prophet,
33:06but not quite saying it,
33:09instead having it reaffirmed
33:11by the second tier.
33:12If the second tier can introduce
33:14the audience to this concept
33:16and say we have this concept
33:19that God is giving this unusual blessing
33:21of seven letters in someone's name,
33:24well, the audience will then
33:26make the connection
33:27whenever the major prophet
33:28says what the minor prophet,
33:30or in this case,
33:31the five-fold minister,
33:33is saying
33:34because it's an anointed saying by God.
33:38That's the thing to understand.
33:40The second tier
33:41are speaking things
33:43that are so absurd,
33:47yet at the same time
33:48so anointed
33:49that the audience
33:50must be receptive to take it.
33:53In other words,
33:54the audience had to be trained
33:56to shut off all critical thinking
33:58because nobody in their right mind
34:00is going to say
34:01that seven letters
34:02makes you more spiritual
34:03than Billy Graham.
34:04But that is exactly what happened.
34:07And it's all because
34:08of that second tier.
34:09It's very important to understand.
34:11A movement like this
34:13cannot survive
34:14unless you have
34:15that second tier
34:16of people
34:17who are echoing
34:18what the top tier is saying.
34:21And in fact,
34:22Bob Scott mentions this frequently
34:23that there are people
34:26in the movement
34:27who do nothing but echo.
34:29And Bob's always asking,
34:30why is this?
34:30Why would you just echo?
34:32Why not go find out for yourself?
34:33Well, when you understand
34:35the hierarchy of these tiers,
34:37you begin to understand
34:38that it is an indoctrinated,
34:40trained experience.
34:42It's not something
34:43that people just naturally do.
34:45You naturally won't do
34:46this kind of thing.
34:47So the minor profits
34:49are actually more important
34:50than the major profits
34:51because they become
34:53the distributors
34:54of the major message.
34:56Without the middle tier,
34:59that top tier's message
35:01is not that important.
35:02But because of that second tier,
35:04these become the distributors
35:06of the major message.
35:08The weird problem
35:09that exists with this,
35:10if you go down the lineup
35:11of names of people
35:12who did not become
35:14the major profits
35:15in the movement,
35:16there's some really weird
35:17and strange
35:18and unusual people.
35:19We've had many discussions
35:21on Bob Jones,
35:22and if you take
35:23the adultery,
35:26the predatorial things
35:28out of the picture
35:29and just look at the man
35:31and his message
35:32and his predictions
35:33and his prophecies
35:34and how weird
35:35all of that is,
35:37you really would never
35:38just go follow Bob Jones
35:40of IHOPKC.
35:41There's no way
35:42that you would do it.
35:43But he was a distributor
35:45of Mike Bickle's message.
35:47He was the one
35:48in that middle tier
35:48who is making
35:49Mike Bickle's themes
35:51become established.
35:53Then once they're established,
35:55he doesn't matter anymore.
35:57He has already laid
35:59all the groundwork.
36:00So another way to say it,
36:02this middle tier
36:03of individuals,
36:04this is the connective tissue
36:05between what is the revivals
36:08and the local church.
36:10They're the ones
36:11who are taking the concept
36:12in these conventions,
36:14these auditoriums
36:16back in the tent revivals
36:17from the tents.
36:18These are the people
36:20that would go
36:20to the local churches
36:21and help spread the message
36:24that we're affirming
36:26what our major prophet
36:27is saying.
36:27He's too busy
36:28to come see you,
36:29but we're going
36:30to affirm it.
36:31And what they're doing
36:32is they're laying
36:34the groundwork
36:35or the bridging
36:36between all
36:37of the apostolic networks
36:38that eventually form
36:40the New Apostolic Reformation.
36:41So if you're a person
36:43who is sympathetic
36:44to the New Apostolic Reformation
36:46or the charismatic movement
36:48in general,
36:49you're probably asking,
36:50okay, so John,
36:52what's so wrong with this?
36:53What does it mean
36:54if somebody is just simply
36:56backing somebody else
36:58and that the person
36:59that they're backing
37:00turns out to be wrong?
37:01We can't blame the people
37:04in the tier below
37:05because that's guilt
37:06by association.
37:08In fact,
37:09I get that challenge
37:10all the time.
37:11People will say,
37:12you can't do this, John,
37:14because this one person
37:15was preaching heresy
37:17or turned out to be
37:18a predator
37:19or whatever is the case.
37:21Because this other person
37:22is connected to them,
37:23you can't say
37:24that there's a problem here.
37:27All you can say
37:27is this is guilt
37:28by association
37:29and John,
37:30that's wrong.
37:31But you have to understand
37:33that's not the way
37:33this works
37:34in this type of movement.
37:37There's a bigger problem here
37:39that really can't be overlooked.
37:41So, in my opinion,
37:44here are some examples
37:46of why this is wrong.
37:47You have this middle tier
37:49of people,
37:50some of whom claim
37:52to be a prophet.
37:54Yet at the same time,
37:55we don't have
37:57many of their prophecies.
37:58My examples were limited
38:01to what we have
38:03with Anna Schrader
38:04just because I have
38:04one of her books.
38:05But think of all
38:07of the others.
38:08We do have people like,
38:10what's a good example,
38:11Bill Britton.
38:13Steve Montgomery and I,
38:14when we talk about
38:15converging a prophecy,
38:16we'll always go back
38:17to people like Bill Britton
38:19because we do have
38:20their works.
38:21The point is this,
38:23other than just
38:24a select few,
38:26we don't even have
38:27their prophecies.
38:28So, the biblical instruction
38:29for a prophet is
38:31to tell if it's a prophet
38:32by God,
38:33we need to evaluate
38:34and see did the thing
38:36that they said
38:37before the event happened
38:39happen correctly
38:42as they stated.
38:43If not,
38:44this is not a prophecy
38:45from God.
38:46It's that pure,
38:47plain, and simple.
38:49But the problem is
38:50the movement
38:50has by and large
38:52forgotten this middle tier.
38:54There are a few handfuls,
38:55yes,
38:56I've looked at them,
38:57some of them,
38:57like Sam Fife.
38:58I think he might be
38:59considered a middle tier prophet
39:01when he spun off
39:03into his own movement
39:04and so we do have
39:04some of his prophecies.
39:06That much is true.
39:08But,
39:08how about Anna Schrader?
39:10Where are you going to go
39:11and find all of her
39:12many prophecies?
39:13I found one book
39:14on Amazon.
39:15I can't find them all.
39:17These people
39:19validated
39:20the major prophet.
39:21So,
39:22if you're
39:23claiming the guilt
39:24by association card,
39:25it's more than just that
39:27because they're the ones
39:28who are re-emphasizing
39:30and making,
39:31they're echoing
39:32what the major prophet says.
39:35They're making it
39:36suddenly feel
39:37like a move of God
39:38and it's less like
39:40a lone,
39:41eccentric,
39:42heretic person.
39:44They're given credibility,
39:45I think,
39:46is the best way to say it.
39:47And that's really,
39:48for me,
39:49that's one of the strongest
39:49arguments against
39:50this type of thing.
39:52And,
39:53second,
39:54if you really
39:55go deep
39:56into what
39:57these prophecies are,
39:59because they're
40:00so very vague.
40:01I read through
40:02some of the Anna Schrader
40:03prophecies
40:04and you can do it too.
40:05You can buy her book
40:05on Amazon cheaply.
40:07I did.
40:08You can go through those
40:09and you see that
40:10they're very vague
40:11and they're always
40:12in this format.
40:14They're going to
40:15use Bible names
40:16instead of the real names,
40:17which means I can
40:19apply this prophecy
40:19to anybody
40:20and I can't really
40:21prove did it fail
40:23because they'll just say,
40:25well,
40:25that's not the Elijah.
40:26That's not the Ahab
40:28and Jezebel
40:29I was talking about.
40:30It's this new person.
40:31And then when that one fails,
40:32it's the person after that.
40:33You can just go down the line
40:35because it's not specific.
40:37The other thing
40:38that I noticed
40:39as I'm reading through,
40:40there's always an out.
40:42They,
40:43yay,
40:43I say unto you,
40:45Ahab and Jezebel,
40:46this,
40:46that,
40:46and the other,
40:47unless this,
40:49that,
40:49and the other.
40:49And so,
40:50how can you prove
40:51the prophecy failed?
40:52They'll just say,
40:53well,
40:54the unless part.
40:55You missed the unless part.
40:56And even though
40:57some of the details
40:58may be vague,
40:59some of them,
41:00even if they don't
41:01come to pass,
41:02there's no way
41:03to prove it.
41:04What they are instead doing,
41:06and this is the part
41:06that most people miss,
41:08they are the ones
41:10who are translating
41:11the message
41:11for the ordinary people.
41:14The major prophet
41:15gives the prophecy,
41:17gives the commission,
41:18gives the revelation,
41:19whatever it is.
41:21Well,
41:22it has to be broken down
41:23into bite-sized,
41:25understandable pieces.
41:26And this middle tier
41:27does this.
41:29Sometimes,
41:29they do it through prophecy
41:31because you can reaffirm
41:32the prophecy
41:33while breaking it down
41:34into tiny,
41:35bite-sized pieces.
41:37Especially if you give
41:38biblical names
41:39that people can go,
41:40oh,
41:40I recognize the name Elijah,
41:42I recognize the name Ahab
41:44and Jezebel.
41:45Let's go read the Bible
41:46and see what it says.
41:48Wow,
41:48that sounds exactly
41:49like that person
41:50who's in politics right now.
41:52And that's really
41:53how it works.
41:54They're translating
41:54the message,
41:55sometimes not even
41:56by translating it,
41:58but by inferring
41:59what the message is
42:01by pointing people
42:02to names
42:03that are used
42:04in Scripture.
42:05The other thing
42:06that they do
42:07is that,
42:09and this is really
42:10problematic for me,
42:12I've had huge conversations
42:13with Jed about this
42:15and Bob Scott,
42:17they keep the mythology
42:19alive
42:20between the major events.
42:22And the event
42:23might be a commission,
42:25the event might be
42:25a convention,
42:27the event might be
42:27a prophecy.
42:29Basically,
42:30this thing happens,
42:31it gets everybody
42:32up into the entertainment,
42:34the excitement,
42:35the euphoria.
42:37People are addicted
42:39to this high
42:40that they get
42:41with the leader.
42:42Well,
42:43whenever that stops,
42:45something has to keep
42:46the movement alive.
42:48And so,
42:49as revivalists,
42:51during the
42:51Lateran revival,
42:52they can't be everywhere.
42:53They'll go to a city,
42:54they'll hold a big convention,
42:56they'll pray for the sick,
42:57but then they'll go
42:58to the next city.
43:00They might go,
43:00maybe they're in Dallas
43:01this time,
43:02maybe they go to
43:03Los Angeles the next time.
43:04Well,
43:05what about all those
43:05people in Dallas?
43:06Now the euphoria is gone.
43:08The entertainment is gone.
43:10The,
43:10this emotional high
43:12that they get on is gone.
43:13How do you keep people
43:15in that state
43:16without them just
43:17saying,
43:18wait a minute,
43:19that didn't sit
43:21quite right.
43:22There's something
43:22quite wrong here.
43:24Well,
43:24the middle tier
43:25is what keeps
43:26everything alive.
43:27Now they've got
43:28more books
43:29they can read.
43:29They've got publications,
43:31pamphlets.
43:32The middle tier
43:33might record sermons.
43:35Today,
43:35they might record
43:36a YouTube video,
43:38Facebook,
43:39social media.
43:40This is the tier
43:42that keeps the momentum.
43:43In other words,
43:44if this is a vehicle,
43:46the,
43:46the revivalist,
43:48the apostle
43:49or prophet,
43:50they're the engine,
43:51but you have to have
43:52the wheels
43:52to keep the thing moving.
43:53And that's what
43:54the middle tier does.
43:56The other thing,
43:57which this is
43:59kind of funny
44:00when I realized it.
44:02I don't know,
44:03unless you have
44:04a specific example,
44:05I'm always going back
44:06to what I had
44:07in Branhamism,
44:08but there were things
44:09that were just so absurd
44:11that we believed.
44:12To embarrass myself,
44:14I was 37 years old
44:16believing that
44:17a man
44:18living in Indiana
44:19who claimed
44:20to have been born
44:21in Kentucky,
44:22who claimed
44:22to be a hillbilly,
44:24could speak
44:25a squirrel
44:25into existence
44:26for the sole purpose
44:27of shooting its head off
44:28with a shotgun.
44:29That was part
44:30of our mythology.
44:31That was Branhamism mythology.
44:34It's absurd.
44:36When I look back
44:37at this,
44:38had I just simply
44:40attended a meeting
44:41where he made
44:41this ridiculous claim
44:43and I'm just sitting
44:44in the audience
44:45and I hear him
44:45make the claim
44:46for the first time
44:47and I go back home,
44:48never hear it again,
44:50eventually I'm going
44:51to say,
44:52well,
44:52that was pretty stupid.
44:54But if you have
44:55this middle tier
44:56like my grandfather
44:58who was in that middle tier
44:59not as a prophet
45:00but as a five-fold minister,
45:02they're the ones
45:04who soften
45:04the absurd
45:06by spreading
45:07these claims
45:08and talking about them
45:09gradually
45:11by emphasizing them
45:13through
45:15relating passages
45:16of the Bible
45:17to what happened
45:18to the minister.
45:18they're the ones
45:20who numb
45:22the pain
45:22that you might
45:23otherwise get
45:24by hearing something
45:25that was just
45:25incredibly absurd.
45:28And out of all
45:29of the jobs
45:30that the middle tier
45:30has,
45:31I would say
45:31that is probably
45:32the biggest one.
45:34If you don't have
45:36that,
45:36if you don't have
45:37somebody to soften
45:38these weird claims,
45:39you can't really
45:40build a movement
45:41and make it stick.
45:43But because of
45:45them doing this
45:46and I picture
45:48also using
45:49my grandfather
45:49as an example,
45:50his home church
45:52was in Jeffersonville,
45:53Indiana
45:53once he took over
45:55pastorship
45:56of this church.
45:58But there were times
45:59that he would be called
46:00to other cities
46:01or he might
46:01travel
46:02and just visit
46:03on vacation
46:04another city.
46:05And what happens
46:06is the people there,
46:08they want to hear
46:08more too.
46:09This person
46:10is a middle tier.
46:11We want to hear
46:11more about what he says.
46:12What do you think
46:13the prophet meant
46:14when he said
46:15X, Y, and Z?
46:16Well, my grandfather
46:17was one of the people
46:18who would explain
46:19what he thought
46:20the prophet meant.
46:21And then after
46:22he would leave
46:23that town,
46:24you would watch
46:24the ministers
46:25debate on whether
46:26or not his perspective
46:28was correct
46:29or if he was full of it.
46:31And interestingly,
46:32because I went
46:33from church to church,
46:34I have actually heard
46:36sermons about
46:37when he was full of it.
46:39So there's some
46:40weirdness out there,
46:41but they are the ones
46:43that bridge the movements
46:45and the network together
46:46because of this.
46:48The people who have
46:49itching ears
46:50want to hear more
46:51and they can't
46:52directly access
46:53the central figure
46:55in many cases,
46:56so they go to
46:57that middle tier.
46:58And because of
47:00that middle tier,
47:02you can connect
47:03all of the dots
47:04that I have
47:05in my research.
47:05If not for that
47:07middle tier,
47:07I would have
47:07never known
47:08that International
47:10House of Prayer
47:11in Kansas City
47:12could be connected
47:13back to Branhamism
47:14or Latter Rain.
47:15I would have
47:16never known
47:17or guessed
47:17that Hobart Freeman
47:18in Indiana
47:19was connected
47:20to that same thing
47:21and that many
47:22of his people
47:23went to IHOP KC
47:25after his cult imploded.
47:28I mean,
47:28there's so many
47:29spider webs
47:30of connections
47:30and that's
47:31because that
47:32middle tier
47:32is bridging
47:33all of these
47:34movements together.
47:35In the computer world,
47:38they are the
47:39network cables
47:40that make your
47:41computer communicate
47:42across the internet
47:44to the computer
47:45in the remote server
47:46or the other
47:47individual who's
47:48sitting there
47:49typing you a chat
47:49message.
47:50They're that conduit
47:51basically.
47:53The other thing
47:54that they do
47:54and this is
47:57so sad
47:58when I think
47:59about it,
47:59they're the ones
48:01who made
48:01all of the abuse
48:03and the errors
48:05survive.
48:06People were abused
48:08emotionally,
48:09spiritually,
48:10sometimes physically
48:10or sexually
48:11and what happened
48:13because they're
48:14numbing
48:15the absurdity
48:17at the same time
48:18they're numbing
48:19the error
48:20and for me
48:22that's problematic.
48:23I look at my grandfather
48:24and I loved
48:25my grandfather.
48:26He was,
48:27I thought he was
48:28a good man
48:29and I still
48:30to some extent
48:31believe he was
48:32but he was caught
48:33up in this system
48:34where he was a key
48:36player in that
48:37middle tier
48:38making the problems
48:39survive
48:41and for me
48:42that's a problem
48:43that's something
48:44that needs to be
48:45corrected.
48:46When you're in a group
48:47that bad things
48:49can continue
48:50they will
48:51and you'll find
48:52people who will
48:52abuse that system.
48:54we see
48:55time after time
48:57these new leaders
48:58come
48:58and they rise up
48:59and some scandal
49:00breaks out
49:01and it hits the news
49:02people always look
49:04to the point
49:05of conduct
49:06the code of conduct
49:09that was happening
49:09with the leader
49:10himself
49:11because that's
49:12the star
49:13that's the
49:13that's the
49:15Moses prophet
49:16for the age
49:17or whatever
49:17but they never
49:18go back
49:18that one level.
49:19if you go back
49:21that one level
49:21you'll find
49:22why that was
49:23enabled
49:24how they got
49:25platformed
49:26what they did
49:27to platform
49:28themselves.
49:29An example of this
49:30is Todd Bentley.
49:31Todd Bentley
49:32there's many things
49:34that you can read
49:34on the internet
49:36about him
49:36you can watch
49:37some videos
49:38things that
49:39are pretty bad
49:40if they're true
49:40well
49:42whenever people
49:43see the bad
49:45they want to
49:45connect him
49:46to other people
49:47in the top tier
49:48so they'll watch
49:49a video
49:50and they'll say
49:50oh he was
49:51platformed by
49:52Bill Johnson
49:53or Mike Bickle
49:54or whoever it was
49:55they'll say
49:55these people
49:56are on stage
49:57together with
49:57these other people
49:58and they're
49:58supporting each
49:59other and
49:59therefore they
50:00can survive
50:01but that's
50:02technically not
50:03true
50:04the people
50:05who are at
50:05the top tier
50:06survive
50:06because of
50:07the tier
50:08under them
50:09you have
50:09people who
50:10are enabling
50:12that to
50:13continue
50:14and the
50:14problem is
50:15everyone in
50:16that tier
50:17knows how
50:18the system
50:18works
50:18so if
50:20you are
50:20in one
50:20corner
50:21and you
50:21are an
50:22NAR
50:22prophet
50:22and you're
50:23doing these
50:24things that
50:24are heretical
50:25or outright
50:26evil
50:27and you have
50:28a lower tier
50:29that's supporting
50:29you and
50:30numbing it
50:30down for
50:31the people
50:32you're already
50:33aware that
50:33the other guy
50:34on the other
50:34side of the
50:35country is
50:35doing the
50:35same thing
50:36so when you
50:37get on stage
50:38with them
50:38the funny
50:39part is
50:39some of
50:40these people
50:41know how
50:41bad the
50:42other person
50:43is
50:43but they
50:44can't say
50:45anything
50:45because they
50:46know that
50:47tier underneath
50:48is the one
50:49who is enabling
50:50the whole
50:51thing
50:51and if you
50:52expose that
50:53tier underneath
50:53you've exposed
50:54yourself
50:55that is a
50:56problem for
50:57me
50:57you basically
50:58you're victims
50:59of the
51:00system
51:00there may be
51:01people and
51:02there may be
51:02people I've
51:03mentioned on
51:03the podcast
51:04who are
51:04actually good
51:05people who
51:06are in
51:07leadership
51:07positions
51:08over
51:09movements
51:10that are
51:11very destructive
51:12they don't
51:13even realize
51:14that they're
51:14destructive
51:15but they
51:16bought into
51:16the system
51:17where they're
51:18in this
51:18upper tier
51:19I know
51:20I know
51:20good people
51:21who got
51:21into the
51:21five-fold
51:22ministry
51:23they did
51:24some things
51:25that harmed
51:25other people
51:26and they're
51:27not a
51:28the faces
51:29that I can
51:30put to this
51:30are not
51:31bad people
51:31they just
51:32got caught
51:32up in
51:33this bad
51:33system
51:34so for
51:35me
51:35correcting
51:36the system
51:37is the
51:38greatest
51:39importance
51:39if we
51:40could do
51:40anything
51:40to correct
51:41what we
51:42see today
51:42we need
51:43to examine
51:44the system
51:45and how
51:45it works
51:46this middle
51:46tier is
51:47part of
51:47that
51:47system
51:48so to
51:49sum
51:49all of
51:50this up
51:50the danger
51:51was never
51:52just the
51:53famous man
51:54who's on
51:54the platform
51:55the greater
51:56danger
51:57actually
51:57was this
51:58network
51:59of smaller
52:00voices
52:00that made
52:01him
52:01believable
52:02and portable
52:03untouchable
52:04presentable
52:05without that
52:06middle tier
52:07these people
52:08would have
52:08just
52:08their ministries
52:09would have
52:09failed
52:09there wasn't
52:11really enough
52:11substance
52:12for them
52:12to continue
52:14and some
52:14of the
52:15things that
52:15they claimed
52:15were just
52:16so absurd
52:16people would
52:17never have
52:18believed them
52:18I look at
52:19some of the
52:20and every group
52:21has this kind
52:22of thing
52:22but when
52:23you're in one
52:24of these
52:24destructive
52:24groups
52:25you think
52:26that your
52:26group was
52:27the greatest
52:27thing ever
52:28you had
52:28the special
52:29divine
52:29mysteries
52:30that nobody
52:31else had
52:32and when
52:33you come in
52:33contact with
52:34another group
52:34who had
52:35the same
52:36view for
52:36their
52:37perspective
52:38you think
52:39well my
52:40gosh how
52:40could they
52:41believe
52:41something so
52:42crazy
52:42and I
52:44did this
52:44while I
52:45was in
52:45Branhamism
52:45when I
52:46came out
52:47of Branhamism
52:47I suddenly
52:49realized my
52:50crazy wasn't
52:51any different
52:51than their
52:52crazy
52:52and the
52:53other group's
52:54crazy wasn't
52:55any different
52:55than their
52:56crazy or my
52:57crazy
52:57we're all
52:58the same
52:58crazy
52:59we need to
53:00walk away
53:00from this
53:00that's
53:01that's the
53:02that's the
53:03absurdity
53:04that exists
53:05and people
53:06don't just
53:07join into
53:08the absurd
53:09without some
53:10sort of a
53:10strategy behind
53:11getting them
53:12in it
53:12that's what
53:13the middle
53:14tier does
53:14for me
53:15so the
53:18point I'm
53:18trying to
53:19drive at
53:19here is
53:20everybody
53:20remembers the
53:21major
53:21prophets
53:22the faces
53:23of the
53:24movement
53:24that have
53:24the big
53:25names
53:25the ones
53:26that write
53:27the books
53:27and you can
53:28go buy
53:28the books
53:29and their
53:29ministries
53:30have a
53:30mythology
53:31behind it
53:32but the
53:32real engine
53:33underneath
53:34that
53:34is that
53:35second tier
53:36and that
53:37engine
53:37is the
53:38most important
53:38part of
53:39this whole
53:39thing
53:40they made
53:41the
53:42unbelievable
53:43believable
53:44they made
53:45the abuse
53:46sustainable
53:47and they
53:49made the
53:50they made
53:51the absolute
53:52absurd
53:52sound real
53:53without that
53:55middle tier
53:55none of that
53:56really exists
53:57so if you
53:59want to
53:59understand how
53:59these movements
54:00keep producing
54:01similar
54:02movements
54:03or reproducing
54:04themselves
54:05you have
54:06to stop
54:06watching just
54:07that man
54:07on the
54:08stage
54:08you have
54:08to watch
54:09okay
54:10here's a
54:10guy on
54:11the stage
54:11who are
54:12the voices
54:12who are
54:13supporting
54:13him
54:14maybe
54:15they're
54:15in another
54:15movement
54:16maybe
54:16they're
54:17helping
54:17him
54:17develop
54:18a
54:18movement
54:19maybe
54:19they're
54:20just
54:20common
54:20voices
54:21planted
54:21in the
54:21crowd
54:22who says
54:23I
54:23believe
54:24you
54:25without
54:25that
54:26second
54:26tier
54:27no matter
54:27how
54:27that tier
54:28is
54:28structured
54:28the voice
54:29on the
54:30stage
54:30is
54:30limited
54:31and so
54:32you'll
54:33never
54:33build
54:34you'll
54:35never
54:35build
54:35a movement
54:35by one
54:36single
54:36voice
54:37that movement
54:38has to be
54:39built
54:39by the
54:40echo
54:40so
54:42hopefully
54:42I've said
54:43something
54:43that makes
54:44sense
54:44I've kind of
54:45went all over
54:45the place
54:46there's
54:46there's so
54:47much to
54:48unpack here
54:48and we
54:49don't
54:49really
54:49from a
54:50research
54:50standpoint
54:51we don't
54:52have a
54:52lot of
54:53the
54:53minor
54:54prophets
54:54and minor
54:55voices
54:55works
54:56I
54:56actually
54:56tried
54:57to do
54:57a
54:57study
54:58on
54:58Anna
54:59Schrader
54:59I was
54:59going to
55:00present
55:00a lot
55:00of
55:00things
55:01I do
55:01have
55:01the
55:01book
55:02of
55:02prophecies
55:02but
55:03just
55:03going
55:04through
55:04voice
55:04of
55:04healing
55:04there's
55:05only
55:05one
55:05article
55:06that
55:06has
55:07her
55:07name
55:07on
55:07it
55:07that
55:07I
55:08could
55:08find
55:08and
55:09there's
55:10just
55:10not
55:10a
55:10lot
55:10out
55:11there
55:11yet
55:12she
55:12is
55:12the
55:12one
55:13whenever
55:13people
55:13say
55:14well
55:14Branham
55:15Branham
55:15went
55:16astray
55:16she's
55:17actually
55:17the
55:18one
55:18that
55:18they're
55:26that
55:26yes
55:26Branham
55:27went
55:27astray
55:27that
55:27that's
55:28really
55:28what
55:28they're
55:28talking
55:29about
55:29here
55:30so
55:31so
55:31much
55:31to
55:31unpack
55:32hopefully
55:32I've
55:33made
55:33sense
55:33and
55:34there's
55:34much
55:35more
55:35to
55:35tell
55:35for
55:35another
55:36day
55:36so
55:37if
55:37you've
55:37enjoyed
55:38our
55:38show
55:38and
55:38you
55:38want
55:38more
55:38information
55:39you can
55:39check
55:39us
55:39out
55:40on
55:40the
55:40web
55:40you can
55:41find
55:41us
55:41at
55:41william
55:42dash
55:42brannham
55:42dot org
55:43for more
55:44about
55:44the dark
55:44side
55:44of the
55:45new
55:45apostolic
55:45reformation
55:46you can
55:46read
55:47weaponize
55:47religion
55:48from
55:48christian
55:48identity
55:49to
55:49the
55:49nar
55:50available
55:51on
55:51amazon
55:51kindle
55:52and audible
56:17초밍
56:17кв
56:17m
56:21m
56:22m
56:23m
56:23m
56:23m
56:24m
56:25m
56:25m
56:26m
56:56We'll see you next time.
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