00:00Before we get to Stephen Jones, exclusively on the KNC Masterpiece yesterday, leading up to the NFL Draft.
00:06It is eight days away. Packed to the Draft, brought to you by Pluckers.
00:11We're going to have Brian Broaddus, Bobby Belt, Zach Wolchuk anchoring our coverage,
00:15along with the crew at DallasCowboys.com.
00:18I don't know what is wrong.
00:19You're just choked up from Peyton's letter to you.
00:21You got a cough drop over there?
00:22Yeah, I got one for you somewhere.
00:24Need a lozenger.
00:26Before we get to Stephen, I want to throw out this little note from Jordan Schultz, NFL Insider,
00:32that a lot of times goes on the G-Bag Nation.
00:34See what y'all make of this.
00:37There's a belief among teams at the top of the draft that the Cowboys are a team to watch in
00:43trade-up scenarios.
00:44Nothing new there.
00:45Several teams have said they believe Dallas is targeting a player.
00:49The Giants also covet.
00:52And getting ahead of them would be ideal if the price makes sense.
00:57Several teams in the top ten are interested in trading down.
01:00The issue they've run into and believe will persist is a lack of interest from teams in moving high 2027
01:07picks.
01:08Things will intensify this week, but that element could make trades more difficult than usual.
01:14So two new things in there from Jordan Schultz.
01:16One, the Cowboys may be trying to get ahead of the Giants for a player they covet.
01:23And two, teams hesitant to give up 2027 capital.
01:28I don't know what to make of the 2027.
01:30Like, is there...
01:30Like, I get it, like, in the NBA...
01:3227's considered...
01:32Better draft?
01:3327's considered to be full.
01:35That's why the Jets have shifted a lot of capital forward to then.
01:38Hmm.
01:39Oh.
01:40Okay, well, let's get to the Giants aspect.
01:43Because the player most commonly mocked...
01:45I don't have one.
01:46Don't have one?
01:47Okay.
01:47Here.
01:48It's an emergency.
01:49It's like a vitamin C overload.
01:51You feel like a million bucks.
01:52I feel fine.
01:53It's just some...
01:54Vitamin C overload.
01:56He may be running into the bathroom, too, though.
01:57To pee?
01:58Nope.
01:59Other one.
01:59Really?
02:00Vitamin C will do that, too.
02:01Never heard that.
02:02Who has been the player most commonly mocked to the Giants?
02:05Sonny Stiles.
02:07That would be the one that I would assume...
02:09I mean, if you're making a big show of things and saying, like, all right, there's a move
02:15to be made here to get ahead of them for the guy that they like, that would be the one
02:18that it would seem...
02:19That would seem to be who they're talking about, would be Sonny Stiles.
02:22So, after this, I went, and I'm just YouTube binge-watching players right now.
02:28Mm-hmm.
02:29I'm becoming an expert scout.
02:30Look at you.
02:31You're going to have a little...
02:32What's the composition notebook like Corey Majors came in here with yesterday?
02:35That was...
02:36I gotta say, I knew he had been watching.
02:38Him coming in here with his notebook that he was peeling out with all his little handwritten
02:42notes, I felt proud of him.
02:43And it was a graphing notebook.
02:44It wasn't even a college-ruled one.
02:46It had little...
02:47The boxes.
02:48Eep-boop.
02:50I told Bobby I had a hot take.
02:51It was driving him crazy in the commercial break, trying to guess who I was talking about.
02:57I'm talking about Sonny Stiles.
02:59And my hot take...
03:01Mm.
03:01Put it on the board.
03:03Yes.
03:03I was watching the highlights, and I was hoping for more.
03:08Oh, baby.
03:09I was watching about eight to ten minutes, and I was like, okay, okay, because we all saw
03:15up close the freak in Indianapolis, and all the combine numbers, and the size.
03:22Brand smooth.
03:22And the versatility.
03:24I was just looking for...
03:26There was a lack of, like, wow, explosive, oh-my-God moments from him.
03:30So I told myself there in the moment, if the Cowboys moved up for that, just based upon
03:37the ten minutes of highlight reels, I would be pretty furious.
03:41I'd be very, very upset if they moved up that much.
03:45If the player we're talking about is Stiles that the Giants are interested in.
03:49I was hoping to be wowed.
03:51I was hoping to be blown away.
03:52Okay.
03:52It made me go back to watch Fred Warner in college.
03:56I was like, okay, what do Fred Warner highlights look like?
03:58They look better than Stiles.
03:59I had a lot more fun watching Jacob Rodriguez than Sonny Stiles.
04:05That was just ten minutes of his YouTube clips.
04:08I'm being honest.
04:10I'm going to be the scout that drops down from space.
04:15I'm walking out of Artemis, and I'm just watching ten-minute YouTube highlight reels,
04:20and all my opinions will be based off that.
04:22Okay.
04:23I'm a ten-minute YouTuber.
04:24I'll have to go find, like, a handful of plays that'll show, because he's...
04:29First off, he's asked to do things.
04:32Like, he's new to the position.
04:34He had played safety up until two years ago, so there's still a little bit of him
04:38that you're talking about, like, oh, there's upside here.
04:41Like, it's not necessarily just, oh, he's a finished product.
04:43He's played linebacker his whole life.
04:45So some of it is just upside of the skills and what he's already done.
04:48But I think there are instances of when you watch him, especially, like,
04:51moving laterally and through traffic and going after, you know, run-blocking schemes
04:57and stuff like that, I think he's really, really good.
04:59I don't think he's as, like, impressive in coverage as I would expect
05:04maybe a former safety to me.
05:06Like, there's not moments...
05:07There are times when I watch Reese on tape where I think Reese looks more impressive
05:11covering people.
05:12Yes.
05:12And, like, so to me, it's...
05:14That's the one thing that I'm a little bit, like, leery of is, like,
05:18is he going to get exposed on some of the coverage stuff?
05:20But, I mean, he is a physical freak who has improved every year that he's played
05:26at the position and looks to be getting better.
05:29Still very young and is considered, like, a top-tier captain type.
05:32So I'll just put the final sentence on my hot take from last week, too,
05:36where I was like, why are we all of a sudden changing the linebacker pattern?
05:40And we're going to draft a linebacker like this.
05:43Not going to be an edge linebacker at five.
05:47My hot take is Sonny Stiles could be the dropper.
05:51He could be the one that possibly drops.
05:54Well, if he drops and he falls in your lap at 12.
05:57If he doesn't go to the Giants, like, if the Giants, for some reason,
06:00take somebody else, if, like, he gets past the Titans,
06:03gets past the Giants, who have been most connected to him,
06:05I don't know that there's, like, an obvious, like,
06:06oh, he's going to go their spot.
06:08So, I mean, it could be if they pass on him.
06:13You know, I haven't watched the highlight tapes or any of the tapes.
06:22We just found out Della Thiedemann was white.
06:25Yeah, I heard about that while we were out.
06:27Yeah, I did find out he was Caucasian.
06:30Yep, off the board.
06:32Off the board.
06:35But, so, let me ask you this, and just philosophically,
06:40if, and the type of player you would take at five
06:43is probably different than the type of player you would take at 12, right?
06:46If he, if you watched the highlight tapes
06:48and you weren't blown away by the highlights,
06:50but you were, you watched all this film and you were like,
06:53man, this guy never makes a mistake.
06:54He's basically Sean Lee.
06:55Right.
06:56Right, and I don't know what Sean Lee's highlight tapes
06:58would have looked like coming out of college.
06:59Right.
07:00Really strong.
07:01He was.
07:01Like, electric?
07:02Yeah, he was, he was, you saw all the mental processing stuff.
07:05It's just, he was, his big thing was injury concern.
07:08Am I, am I, you can say it.
07:09Am I crazy in saying that it, it, it, it.
07:11He feels like he should be.
07:12I'm not electric.
07:13Like, based upon his size and the measurables.
07:17And a lot of this is influenced by what you hear,
07:19what you think, and what you're supposed to think.
07:22I was looking for a LeVar Arrington play.
07:25I was looking for a, like, I see it from Bailey
07:28exploding to chase people down.
07:29You're looking for Roy Williams jumping over the deep.
07:31Yeah, I'm looking for, I'm looking for a freakish type play,
07:33and I just see a lot of solid, like, okay, he stopped the run here.
07:36Yeah, and, like, I mean, sometimes.
07:38Or ripping around the corner and, you know, strip sack.
07:41Yeah, and I would say that sometimes, like, when you're watching,
07:44like, high-level execution can look boring sometimes.
07:47Yeah.
07:47And then, so, I mean, that's, that can be part of it as well.
07:50But, no, I understand, I can get that if somebody is watching the highlights
07:53of Downs, if somebody's watching the highlights of Reese Styles, like,
07:57off of that defense, that they would be the least, like, juiced up about seeing Styles.
08:01I understand, like, the excitement factor.
08:04I also think it's just, again, a lot of projection,
08:07and that sometimes, like I said, high-level execution can look really boring at times.
08:11And to finish up the question I think you were going to, Choppy,
08:14if you're telling me that he's going to coordinate,
08:16I don't know the answer to this, Bobby,
08:18whether he is the Sean Lee-type quarterback for your defense.
08:21If you're telling me he's seeing things like Downs does and coordinating everything,
08:26okay, I'll take him at 12.
08:27Yeah, because if you were to go back and, you know.
08:29Sean Lee was awesome.
08:30He was awesome.
08:31If he was here in Dallas, he would be Dallas's green dot.
08:33But, okay, that's fine that he's the green dot,
08:36but is he going to be the green dot by default,
08:39or is he thought to be Mr. Chess out there, Chess over Checkers?
08:44So it gets overshadowed a little bit because Downs is Downs,
08:47and everybody talks about him the same way.
08:49But if Downs was not on there,
08:50I think people would generally talk about Sonny Styles
08:53as the smartest defender on the defense.
08:54Did Downs, was Downs there?
08:57I mean, I know the green, they don't do the green dots in college
08:59because they just decided they were going to use headsets last year.
09:02But was Downs the guy that was the one that was making every call on their defense?
09:07Yeah, they do a ton.
09:08Like, the two guys you see most coordinating things on the defense
09:12are Styles and Downs.
09:13Like, the guys you see getting everybody lined up and doing different things,
09:16they are usually the ones directing traffic.
09:18So yesterday we played Dane Brugler talking about the Cowboys
09:24maybe not minding taking an older player.
09:27And I was like, oh, Steven is on KNC today.
09:29And I texted the guys.
09:31I said, will you ask Steven that question?
09:34Because that threw my draft brain upside down.
09:38Because I'm like, no, I don't want the 25-year-old.
09:40I don't want Messador.
09:41I don't want the 25-year-old corner.
09:43They asked Steven, would you take an older player
09:46knowing there's a lower chance maybe of a second contract?
09:49Well, it's interesting you bring that up.
09:51I think that, you know, these players that are older,
09:54I think it's a two-edged sword.
09:56One is really good.
09:59Certainly you're seeing it with quarterbacks.
10:01We were just talking about offensive linemen,
10:05how important it is as well.
10:06But some of these guys coming out are 24, 25 years old.
10:11But the flip side of that is they have a tremendous amount of experience,
10:16which really helps them transition right into the professional game.
10:21You know, the more and more you look at these things,
10:24these players who only have started, you know, 12 games in college.
10:29You know, 24 is obviously a lot better.
10:32And 36 is better than that.
10:33And a four-year starter is better than that.
10:35But, you know, that really enables them to transition,
10:40usually at a faster rate.
10:42If they have the – right, you've still got to have the skill set
10:45and the things that come with being a professional football player.
10:50But that helps.
10:50Now, the downside of that is some of them are going to be then 28, 29,
10:5630 years old when they come up on their second contract.
10:59And he said, look, quarterback, offensive line, experience, thumbs up.
11:05We can get away with a lack of experience at the more athletic positions
11:08of corner, running back, wide receiver.
11:11So he didn't rule it out, but it brings up your great, you know,
11:15NIL question and point.
11:17But, like, in college, there's no real downside, I guess,
11:23to going after the older player because you're going to have the same years
11:26and same amount of eligibility.
11:28Right.
11:28In the pros, as Steven later told KNC,
11:32we could be done by the time of the second contract.
11:35Yeah, you never – I mean, in college,
11:36you never have to worry about them aging out of the position.
11:39Yeah.
11:40Right?
11:40You know, you have to worry about them aging into the position.
11:43Yeah.
11:43I mean, let's be fair.
11:44Like, if you're – we saw this with – you know,
11:46and even Arch, who red-shirted, he had struggles.
11:51Underwood at Michigan, super high-touted quarterback, he had struggles.
11:56Find me the quarterback, and you're going to see freshman quarterbacks this year
11:59in college football.
12:00They're going to struggle.
12:02And that's – they haven't even aged into the position yet.
12:04So, like, in the NFL, it changes things up a little bit.
12:07But if you're going to stick to – if you're going to say, look,
12:10we're not going to take a player who has a red-shirt year because of injury.
12:14McCoy.
12:15Right, because we have a window.
12:17Then, to me, if your window's that small, on the flip side,
12:22perhaps you take the approach, well, we're not not going to take an old guy
12:27because he might not be here in 10 years because our window is this.
12:31The fellows asked, Stephen, does Jermaud McCoy, Tennessee corner,
12:35qualify as the red-shirt player Jerry wants to avoid?
12:38Yeah, that's a work in progress.
12:39We're trying to, you know, do all the work that we need to do to, you know,
12:45to get our hands around what his status will be for – you know,
12:50we start with everything, what his status is for the mini camps,
12:53what his status is for the training camp,
12:56and then ultimately we'll be able to play part of the season, none of the season.
13:02You know, all those are levels that we put into an equation
13:06and decide where we might come down on that particular player.
13:12That does not sound like super positive to me.
13:16Now, Stephen is very, very careful with the way that he talks about things,
13:20especially if it's, you know, concealing plans before they go into, you know,
13:26something that they're trying to execute.
13:27But for him to not just say, yeah, we're comfortable with him.
13:32When the position seems to be from the McCoy side, like, hey, he's ready, he's healthy.
13:37For him to just be like, yeah, we're trying to get our hands around it.
13:40I think that speaks to what we've talked about
13:43and what we've told you we've heard about things,
13:45which is I think a lot of teams still have a lot of concerns about Jermaud McCoy's knee.
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