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00:00Joining us on Overtime, he is a writer for Pro Football Talk.
00:04You see him on screen sometimes, Pro Football Talk.
00:08He is Cleveland's own Miles Simmons.
00:11Miles, appreciate you joining me.
00:13Nick Pidote, in for Jake Volnick here on Overtime.
00:15Right on 2-3 The Fan, what's going on?
00:18Ah, not too much, Nick. How are you?
00:20I'm good, man. You know what?
00:22We're sitting here in Cleveland.
00:23We got the Cavs on the TV.
00:25We've got the Cleveland Guardians getting ready to get underway
00:28from the West Coast where you're at right now.
00:31So can't complain, but this Miles Garrett stuff is keeping us on our toes, man.
00:34I'll be honest.
00:36Yeah, you know, and it's interesting because when you signed Miles Garrett,
00:41when the Browns signed Miles Garrett, I should say, last year to the extension,
00:45it was kind of like, all right, well, I guess this means that this whole situation is over.
00:51And we, you know, the contract was so prohibitive that they were not going to be able
00:57to trade Miles Garrett without, you know, incurring some sort of exorbitant cap charge.
01:02And, you know, at this point, you know, the Browns have put out there via different,
01:07you know, insiders, whatever you want to call those folks that are reporters,
01:11that they don't really have any interest in trading Miles Garrett right now.
01:15And, you know, I mean, they shouldn't.
01:17You don't let blue chip players run out of the building.
01:20And, you know, for all that Jimmy Haslam has done wrong, at least he seems to know that,
01:28you know, and Miles Garrett is a walk-in Hall of Famer, right?
01:32We all know that.
01:33And the Browns are better with him than they are without him.
01:36But at the same time, I mean, it's understandable from a football strategic standpoint, right?
01:43If you're looking at it and you're saying, well, you know, what really have we won with Miles Garrett?
01:48What could we get for Miles Garrett to set us up for the future?
01:52I get that as, like, a football strategic thing.
01:55But the problem is, no matter what you do, you're never going to be able to get another Miles Garrett,
02:00right?
02:00You can have as many first-round draft picks as you want.
02:03It's not happening.
02:05It's the same thing I used to say, and I spent years covering the Rams, right?
02:08I used to say the same thing about Aaron Dahl, you know, especially after that 2016 season
02:14where the Rams were terrible, they had Goff, and you're like, well, what could you trade for Aaron Dahl?
02:17It doesn't matter because at a certain point, you just have blue-chip players,
02:23and blue-chip players are blue-chip guys, and you can't replicate that success.
02:27And so, you know, we don't know what the Browns are going to be.
02:30Are they going to be great this year?
02:32Probably not.
02:33But at whatever point you are, if Miles Garrett is still on your team,
02:38you're going to be better than if he's not there.
02:39And, you know, I just don't know that any time you can trade a blue-chip guy,
02:46I don't know that you really want to do it because you're never going to be able to replicate
02:49that production from one player.
02:51I'm with you there.
02:52I think people are kind of conflicted right now on what they should do.
02:56I think from a standpoint, though, of what they could do,
02:59the reason why they did this restructure for Miles Garrett's contract
03:04has to be to give them more flexibility, right?
03:08I was saying in the last segment, this kind of does feel like a
03:12where there's smoke, there's fire thing,
03:14even though we do have some Browns fans out there that are refuting
03:18that the Browns would even ever entertain trading Miles Garrett.
03:22Like, this was done so that they could do it at some point if they decide to, right?
03:29Yes.
03:29And, you know, you never say never.
03:32And, you know, that's part of the biggest truism in football.
03:37I mean, anything can happen.
03:38And so you don't know, you know, if the wheels are totally off the track
03:42and it's whatever the trade deadline is, they're around week seven, week eight, right?
03:47And, you know, the Browns haven't won a game yet.
03:50I hope that's not going to be the case, but who knows?
03:53And there's a contender.
03:54The Rams say, want to trade you two first-round picks for Miles Garrett.
03:59At that point, you at least have to have the conversation
04:01and maybe say, throw in another two, another three, another number one,
04:04and we probably have a deal because you guys want to go win a Super Bowl.
04:08And, you know, we're not in a position to do that,
04:11but maybe if we get these picks, then it will help us get in a better position
04:15at some point in the future.
04:17So, yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with having flexibility.
04:20It doesn't mean that you are going to do something in the future,
04:23but to have the flexibility to be able to do something is not necessarily a bad thing.
04:28You mentioned the Los Angeles Rams there,
04:31and it's going to be fascinating to watch how they handle the Puka Nakua situation.
04:37Obviously, he's in a little bit of hot water off the field,
04:40and then on the field, it became more difficult for Los Angeles this week,
04:44just inherently because of Jackson Smith and Jigba's new contract.
04:48Is there a world that maybe Puka Nakua would be on the move, Miles,
04:53because the Browns do have a big need, a wide receiver?
04:57Don't hold your breath.
04:59Don't hold your breath for that one.
05:00You know, look, Puka Nakua is going to become the highest paid wide receiver
05:04in, you know, NFL history,
05:06and he is in a situation where he can't step on the field until that happens.
05:13And, you know, I mean, maybe he does show up to voluntary work.
05:16I wouldn't advise him to do that if I were his agent because he was a fifth-round pick.
05:21I mean, this is somebody that's going to be extraordinarily underpaid
05:24for his production going into year four.
05:27He is extension eligible.
05:28He will receive some sort of contract extension.
05:31It's just a matter of when.
05:33And traditionally, the Rams are a team that is taking care of those kinds of players
05:38more toward the end of the offseason program,
05:40maybe in July, beginning a training camp.
05:42So it might not happen right away, you know, as we get into April and May
05:47because, you know, there's stuff that you need to do.
05:50You've got things that you want, the changes you want to make to your offense
05:53and all kinds of stuff.
05:55So there's just stuff that you do the draft.
05:57And so you're not necessarily thinking about, okay,
05:59where are our players that we're going to extend?
06:01But, I mean, if I'm Puka Nakua's agent, despite what's going on off the field,
06:05and I think it was TMZ that reported earlier that the voluntary restraining order
06:09has been, excuse me, the person who put together the restraining order
06:15has voluntarily lifted it against him.
06:17So whatever that means.
06:20Yeah.
06:20I think that even with all that off the field stuff,
06:23Nakua has done enough on the field where, yeah, you're going to have to pay that guy.
06:28You're going to have to pay him a lot of money.
06:29It was smart of the Seahawks to get their ascension done with JSN before Puka Nakua.
06:35And I think the other aspect of this is you've got to look at George Pickens, right?
06:39I mean, he is somebody who is extension eligible,
06:41even though he is on the franchise tag right now.
06:45If they get a deal done before mid-July and before Puka Nakua,
06:49then whoever gets it done first, the price of the brick is going to go up for the other.
06:53Pro Football Talks' Miles Simmons joins me on the Make It Right Call Kyle Wright hotline right now.
07:00It's funny you mentioned George Pickens.
07:02I'll tie anybody back to the Browns here, Miles.
07:05He played for Munkin at Georgia, did he not?
07:08That could be another fun target.
07:11I mean, yeah, sure.
07:13I mean, it depends on how much you want to give up.
07:15And then who is your quarterback?
07:17And can Todd Munkin effectively soothe whatever weird stuff that George Pickens almost always seems to have going on?
07:27I think one of the reasons why he works in Dallas is because he's got a veteran quarterback in Dak
07:32Prescott
07:32who is used to everything that comes with being the Dallas Cowboys quarterback,
07:37including sometimes having to answer for your owner, Jerry Jones, right?
07:43I mean, there's a lot that goes on there.
07:45And so I think because of that, he probably understands how to massage egos a little bit better
07:52than maybe any of the other quarterbacks in the league.
07:55That's a very tall task for somebody.
07:57I mean, and I don't mean this in a negative for Shader Sanders.
08:00It's just he's a second-year quarterback, going to be learning a new offense,
08:04going to be competing ostensibly with Deshaun Watson.
08:08Is Deshaun Watson even the kind of person that you would want to have with George Pickens right now?
08:14I don't think so.
08:14So, yeah, I mean, even if the Cowboys were inclined to deal him, and I don't know that they really
08:20are,
08:21I think they might be more inclined to deal CeeDee Lamb.
08:24But, again, that's a situation where, man, oh, man, I don't know that the Browns should really be in that
08:30market
08:30of giving up assets for a receiver who's on an expensive contract.
08:35I think they'd be probably better off just going for somebody in the draft.
08:38Well, you mentioned the quarterback thing.
08:40Let's steer things there.
08:41As the Browns are telling everybody that will listen publicly that, you know,
08:45they're signed up to let Shador Sanders and Deshaun Watson compete for this starting quarterback job in 2026.
08:52The obvious caveat feels like if they draft a quarterback, maybe that guy gets added into the competition between Sanders
09:00and Watson.
09:01But they didn't aggressively pursue Malik Willis.
09:05They weren't really in the Kyler Murray stuff.
09:07What do you make of the current Shador Sanders versus Deshaun Watson battle?
09:11Because everybody's repeating here, Miles, that Deshaun Watson has a real chance to start for the Cleveland Browns.
09:17I know.
09:18Oh, boy.
09:21You know, okay, as you mentioned, you know, I grew up in Cleveland.
09:24I grew up a Browns fan.
09:25And, like, frankly, I can't take my fan glasses off when I say that I just don't want to see
09:30that.
09:31I don't.
09:32I think we've seen enough of Deshaun Watson and, you know, the Munkin and new offense coordinator both kind of
09:38peddled the line.
09:39Well, you know, we've seen Watson play at an elite level before.
09:43That was in freaking 2020, man, the last time we saw that.
09:47How much everything is different now than 2020?
09:502020 is basically a generation and a half ago when it comes to NFL players.
09:57Like, that, it's just, I'm sorry, I don't think it's going to happen.
10:01I think if that's the approach you're going to take, then you're better off basically just going all in on
10:07Schroeder Sanders and trying to see if he can really, truly be something.
10:11Right?
10:12If you don't pick up a quarterback in the draft, then that's the approach you should take, in my opinion.
10:17Because I like trying to pretend like Deshaun Watson's going to be something that, you know, he hasn't been since,
10:23again, 20 freaking 20.
10:24I'm just, I'm not interested in seeing that as somebody who grew up bleeding brown and orange and, you know,
10:32wearing Kelly Holcomb jerseys.
10:34It's so bizarre that, you know, there are people that still think there's anything still in there.
10:40And the Browns are an organization that pride themselves on data points.
10:44You know, we hear them talk so much about data points and analytics.
10:47And it's like, guys, there's years worth of data that shows you that this guy just can't play anymore.
10:54The outside stuff with Deshaun Watson, too, the way that he's perceived by the fans.
10:58From your national perspective, what future would he have with any franchise, let alone the Browns, after this season?
11:07I mean, I can't see him playing for any team in the National Football League unless, right, he does go
11:15out there and line it up and show that he can still play.
11:18I mean, I just don't see that there would be a market for services.
11:21Because why would you bring in that kind of PR hit for somebody who has played as poorly as he
11:27has since he's been with the Browns?
11:29I mean, the only good game he had was, what, 2023 in Baltimore in the second half.
11:35And you're like, oh, my gosh, maybe this really could be something.
11:38And then he goes out and, you know, it's just not been good at all.
11:43So I just I don't feel like there's much of a market for services.
11:46Because, again, why would you take the PR hit for a quarterback who's not good?
11:51It just it doesn't really make much sense.
11:54I mean, maybe he could go to one of these spring leagues and do something there.
11:58Maybe can't. I don't know.
11:59But it just doesn't seem to me that another team would want him because production equals tolerance, right?
12:07I mean, if guys are productive and they are good and they can help you win, then there's a market
12:15there.
12:15But once they have shown, especially at the quarterback position, that there's not anything there that you can really and
12:21truly work with, then it's pretty over.
12:24Having a tremendous talk with Pro Football Talks, Miles Simmons here on the Make It Right.
12:30Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
12:32On the quarterback conversation, boy, did Dan Orlovsky light the world on fire this week with the Ty Simpson stuff.
12:39Is there any way that you see a fit for the Browns with Ty Simpson?
12:44Yeah, potentially, yes.
12:45And part of it is the relationship that he has with Todd Munkin, you know, and the fact that Munkin's
12:52been in college and all of these different things.
12:54I think he has a good grasp on what he would want in a quarterback, especially having been just around
13:01football for as long as he has.
13:03So I can see that happening.
13:04I don't think that would happen at six, right?
13:08I mean, I don't see that.
13:09But I do think that, you know, maybe with the second first round pick later on, I think more likely
13:15in the second round if he happens to still be there.
13:17I mean, this is not, you know, a real elite class or crop of quarterbacks.
13:23I think we thought it was going to be better than it's ended up being.
13:26I mean, Garrett Nussmeyer has been talking about how he's been dealing with the abdominal injury.
13:31I mean, Drew Aller was not impressive as much as it pains me to say, you know, fellow Northeastern Ohio
13:36kid.
13:37He just was not very impressive in his last year at Penn State before the injury either.
13:43And those two guys, Nussmeyer and Aller, at one point had the best odds of being drafted at number one
13:50overall.
13:51That's like August of 2025 we're talking about.
13:54So, you know, now as we see the rest of this group, I mean, you've got those two.
13:58You've got Simpson Mendoza is obviously going number one overall.
14:02If you believe in one of those guys, take a flyer on him.
14:06But I would not overdraft, especially because the Browns have so many needs, you know, especially, you know, on offense.
14:13It's not like we're talking about a team that is one piece away, right?
14:19And so I think whether it is investing in Sanders this year or, yeah, you know, you go with a
14:26Tysons and you go with a Nussmeyer,
14:27you go with an Aller and see what they can do.
14:30I mean, fine.
14:31But I just – it's kind of six of one, half a dozen of another, right?
14:37You're still kind of in the same position of, okay, we have to train this guy up in this offense
14:41in order to see what he really can be.
14:43Crazy to think that the NFL draft here is just about a month away.
14:47Browns have these obvious holes at wide receiver, left tackle.
14:50You mentioned the quarterback question that still does exist for the Browns.
14:55Do you have a take on what they should address first with that sixth overall pick?
15:00And is there any world that they would take a defensive player at sixth,
15:04especially now that this Miles Garrett craziness is really heated up?
15:09I don't even know that it's just because of Miles Garrett.
15:11But, yes, I don't think that there's a problem with doubling down on some of your best traits, right?
15:19I mean, people say this in, like, business and business school.
15:23You know, you want to find the asymmetries and exploit them as much as you can.
15:27And if you can get somebody who you think is going to be a great defensive player and there's nobody
15:33on your board, you know,
15:36is your Andrew Barry that you think is going to affect offense in that kind of way, then I would
15:42say, yeah, there's nothing.
15:44I don't really have a problem with it because eventually it just becomes a team construction question.
15:49You know, how are you doing that?
15:51But, I mean, the issue is, right, you don't have a left tackle.
15:55You don't have a quality wide receiver who you know can get separation on third and seven and move the
16:03chains.
16:03And so, you know, you want somebody who can help Harold Fannin out, right,
16:08by also being the wide receiver who can get that done.
16:11And so it depends on who's available, right?
16:14We don't necessarily know who's going to be available.
16:16And when you're picking in the top 10, but not in the top three, it makes it that much more
16:20difficult to forecast.
16:21So I don't see a problem with drafting a defensive player.
16:25But, yes, if you can get a premium receiver or a premium offensive lineman, I think that's probably the way
16:31the Browns should go.
16:32He is Miles Simmons.
16:33You could check out all his tremendous work on Pro Football Talk.
16:37Follow him on X at Miles A. Simmons.
16:41Miles, appreciate your time.
16:43Ton of great stuff for us to unpack on the show.
16:45Thanks so much.
16:47Of course, Nick.
16:47Anytime.
16:48Take care, man.
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