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00:00Well, I didn't even get a chance to ask you. I took the air out of the room.
00:02What do you want out of the Jared-verse this year?
00:06Say it with your chest right now. What do you need?
00:09Am I allowed to mention sacks or...
00:11Why not? I mentioned sacks. I said 10.
00:13Well, the analytics crowd laughs that sacks would ever be issued as an end-all.
00:17Oh, for the love of God. Now you're going to get me on another diatribe.
00:19Because they'll say it should be pass rush win rate.
00:23It should be pressures.
00:25Because over time, that stuff normalizes.
00:27Sacks are wildly volatile from year to year and don't really reflect.
00:32We're not big on the analytics crowd right now in Cleveland.
00:34That's true.
00:35You know what makes it really easy to tell people how good a guy is when he gets a bunch
00:39of sacks?
00:39It just makes our job easier.
00:41Ask Miles Simmons.
00:43For the love of God.
00:44I mean, how many guys out there...
00:46Miles, you're from here. Hello, Miles.
00:48Hello, Ken. Hello, Lima.
00:50Miles is on the Wiseheart Right. We Make It Right call Kyle Right hotline.
00:53Now, Miles is from Cleveland, Ohio.
00:55Miles knows this very, very, very well.
01:00If I'm making an argument for a defensive end, and he only has four and a half sacks,
01:06and we're on the radio, and I start going, well, pass rush win rate.
01:10Quarterback hurries.
01:11And I start yelling at callers about quarterback hurries and pass rush win rate.
01:15What does the guy, like a Bob and Parma, what does Bob and Parma think?
01:22You sound probably too much like Kenny Atkinson, right?
01:25Like, analytically, we're doing so well.
01:27And oh my gosh, wow.
01:29That's great when you turn on the result and you see the final score, which I'm pretty sure that's what
01:33sports is about, right?
01:34Yeah.
01:35We don't talk about Miles Garrett setting the pass rush win rate record.
01:40We talk about him setting the sack record.
01:41I mean, let's call it what it is.
01:42He did have that tackles for loss thing going that once Nathan Zagura kept the surprise stuff, I was like,
01:47holy cow.
01:48And Nathan had to tell us about it because nobody paid attention to it.
01:50Those are the numbers we should be tracking.
01:53Sorry, Miles.
01:54Right.
01:54Worked up.
01:55No.
01:55Hey, look, the thing is, when you look at Miles Garrett versus, let's say, Max Crosby,
02:01and this is an argument that I've had with people, like, Max Crosby is a very, very good pass rusher.
02:07I think we could say that he probably is an elite pass rusher.
02:10But one of the things about Max Crosby versus Miles Garrett is that Crosby's folks, the analytic crowd,
02:17slash, you know, whatever, they'll tell you, hey, he gets so many pressures.
02:21He does this.
02:22He does that.
02:22The pressures, the pressures, the pressures.
02:24Well, Patrick Mahomes can still hit Travis Kelsey for a 20-yard gain if he's under pressure.
02:30Patrick Mahomes cannot hit Travis Kelsey for a 20-yard gain if he's been sacked.
02:35So that's what I always go back to.
02:37Sacks in plays.
02:38Pressures do not.
02:39And so when you're looking at a guy like a Miles Garrett, right, and he sets a sack record,
02:44and he also has as many tackles for loss as he has, that means he is not just affecting plays,
02:49he is ending plays.
02:51That's what makes him one of the greatest pass rushers who has ever put on an NFL helmet in history,
02:57right?
02:57I mean, that just is what it is.
02:58Well, to add on to that, Miles, I think that's well said, but that's the thing that makes Miles so
03:04special is they have found all the analytics gurus over time that, you know, actually ending plays is kind of
03:11a, can't kind of be fluky from game to game, year to year.
03:14And Miles shows, no, I can actually bring quarterbacks down.
03:18That's the difference between me and everybody else.
03:21Yes, exactly.
03:22It's the difference between, like, Miles Garrett and, you know, Aaron Donald, since the team that he's now with, right,
03:28is Miles Garrett.
03:29Those guys are the elite of the elite because they do what they do, and they don't just affect plays,
03:35they make plays, right?
03:36And that's the difference between the all-time greats and some people who are very good to great in their
03:42era and at this time.
03:44It's kind of the thing with Jared Burst, who I've watched a lot of in the last couple of years
03:48living out in Los Angeles, that he is an ascending guy, right?
03:52He does have a lot of really good traits, but a lot of the time he just hasn't finished plays.
03:58It's why he has as many sacks as he has over the first couple, of course, excuse me, of the
04:03first years of his career, right?
04:06So that's your difference, where Jared Burst, if he can learn that to really finish plays, then, yeah, he could
04:14be one of those top guys.
04:15But when you're talking about the win rate and all this stuff, well, those things are good, but that means
04:20you're affecting plays.
04:21You're not necessarily making them all the time.
04:25Miles Simmons joining us here, writer for Pro Football Talk, one of the very best that we know.
04:31When it comes to some of the other things, well, first off, I mean, again, it's weird, you're a local
04:36guy, but you're national.
04:37How many wins did you think the Browns were going to get this year?
04:41Oh, like four to six.
04:43That was before the trade?
04:44That was before the trade?
04:46Yeah, yeah, before the trade.
04:47And I don't know that it's that drastically different after, let's call it three to five.
04:54No, I don't think that's being mean.
04:56I think it's just kind of being real with what the situation is.
05:00All right.
05:01So do you think there's that much of a drop-off from your original prediction to yourself with Jared Burst
05:08instead of Miles Garrett?
05:10Yes.
05:11You do?
05:11Okay.
05:12Yes.
05:13Look, I think it's, I think Miles Garrett is worth at least one win, probably more than that.
05:18That's why I would say, you know, you go from four to six, three to five, because look at the
05:23way that that guy has affected games.
05:25I mean, setting the sack record last year with the offense that we all watched last year for, you know,
05:3217 games, that's unbelievable.
05:34I mean, if he had the kind of season last year playing for the Browns, right, like if he had
05:40that kind of season with the Rams last year, you think that man wouldn't have had 30 sacks?
05:44I do.
05:45Because that's the kind of difference that it makes when you're playing with a lead in the second half and
05:51you have competent offense, right?
05:53It makes an entire difference.
05:55I mean, Aaron Donald, I could go back to this, had 20 sacks for the Rams one year, right?
06:00That's playing from the interior.
06:01And that's what happens when you are playing with a lead and you can ping yours back in the second
06:06half and go, and you have, and you make teams throw that way.
06:09So it's going to be really interesting to see, I think, like what Miles Garrett adds to that defense, right?
06:16Versus what Jared Burst can add, you're having, you're going to have a drop off.
06:20Like it just is because Jared Burst is not an all-time great pass rusher that was basically true when
06:25he walked in the door in the National Football League, right?
06:27Like that's just, it is what it is.
06:30Now, did you get enough for Miles Garrett?
06:33I don't know.
06:34I don't know that you'll ever say that.
06:35But the thing that, you know, I know that this is sometimes Brown's spin, but it's also kind of true.
06:41At least you have a guy in Jared Burst when he walks in the door that is a known commodity
06:46versus a first-round pick, right, that is a complete unknown.
06:50At some point, you want more known knowns than unknowns, right?
06:56Go ahead, Tom.
06:58Miles Simmons, join us right now on the hotline.
07:01So you're a lifelong, devoted Cleveland Browns fan growing up in this region of the country.
07:07And we're getting blowback from obviously some emotional fans who have lived through a lot of really traumatic sports events
07:15and trades have been a part of that history.
07:18Did the Browns have to trade Miles Garrett?
07:22I think that if they were going to trade Miles Garrett, this is probably the best offer that they were
07:27going to get because I don't know that there are any other circumstances where they would get back a former
07:33defensive rookie of the year and a guy who is ascending in year three of a potential five-year contract,
07:40right?
07:40And that's really what makes this different.
07:42And I know Barry said this yesterday, that the inclusion of Jared Burst is what really made this trade work.
07:48And to me, that's what makes sense.
07:50Because there are, I don't think, any other teams that can really offer you that.
07:54I mean, I know there's been reporting about the Eagles and not wanting to give up Jalen Carter.
07:59And from the Eagles' perspective, I get that, right?
08:02Like, we would love to have Miles Garrett, but not at the expense of giving up Jalen Carter.
08:06And you look at it that way, those two guys play two different positions, right?
08:10Yes, Carter really affects things from the interior, but if you are the Eagles, you can say, all right, well,
08:16we can still have that elite guy and then fill in on the outside.
08:20The fact that Garrett and Jared Burst effectively play the same position defensively, I think, makes it easier to have
08:29that kind of thing in the trade and in the deal.
08:31So, I mean, look, it seems pretty obvious that Miles Garrett was not happy about the direction of the Browns.
08:39I think we can understand why to a certain extent, right?
08:43Just based on all the things that have happened over the last couple of years.
08:47And so, if you are going to effectively sell high, this was the right opportunity to do it, I think.
08:53Miles Simmons joining us here, Pro Football Talk on the Wise Heart Right, We Make It Right, Call Kyle Right
08:58Hotline.
08:59Do you think that the quarterback for the Cleveland Browns' future is currently in the room?
09:05Okay, define future.
09:09The franchise guy, the real franchise guy.
09:13I mean, no.
09:15Okay.
09:15I just, because, look, Scherner Sanders, God love him, but, like, I was not particularly impressed with what he put
09:22on the field last year.
09:23Number four, I understand that we're going to have to watch that, probably, and I'm still not, like, ready for
09:29that.
09:29I don't want to see it, but I understand that that's probably the thing that we're going to see.
09:34The left-handed quarterback, I'm not sure why he isn't in Atlanta already, right?
09:38They seem to be cultivating those guys.
09:40So, I just, I don't know that there's anything to excite you right now in the Browns quarterback room, and
09:46we'll see what happens.
09:48But, yeah, I mean, that's part of, a big, big part of the reason why I think that this is
09:52a three-to-five win team,
09:54because from what we know and what we have seen on Sundays from the quarterbacks who are currently in the
10:02room and, you know,
10:03taking the rookie out of it, right, because I don't know that we're going to see someone who needs that
10:09much polish on the field at any point, you know,
10:12in, let's call it the first 15 weeks of the season.
10:15I just, maybe that's the guy, but I kind of doubt that, and it seems like the Browns are positioning
10:22themselves for 2027 to get a QB.
10:24We'll see if that's actually what happens.
10:26But, yeah, I don't, the top three guys that are in the room right now, that doesn't really excite me.
10:31Would it be exciting to enter the supplemental draft if a certain quarterback could be available?
10:38I don't know.
10:39I mean, and I'm not the guy who wants a lot of stories.
10:43Answer the question.
10:45I would say that if you're relying on somebody with a gambling issue to be your franchise quarterback,
10:53I would agree with Todd Munkin that there's a lot of risk there, right?
10:57Like, it just, it seems to me that even though what he, the rules that Soresby violated were NCAA rules,
11:05right,
11:05that you are taking a large chance that somebody will not backslide as your franchise quarterback.
11:12And this is going to be a bigger and bigger problem as, you know, folks who are of this generation
11:20that has grown up with a proliferation of sports betting, we're probably going to find more of this.
11:26And I'm not here to, like, poo-poo on sports betting because I think that we have personal responsibility,
11:32but also parent your kids.
11:34So, like, there's just a lot of layers to that.
11:36I don't think if I'm the Browns that that's the direction I would go in.
11:41So, is there anybody who's a leader in the clubhouse for you for next year already?
11:48I mean, I don't really want to say Arch Manning because I know that that's a popular name,
11:54but, like, when I've watched Arch Manning, it's not like I found him all that impressive.
11:58The thing that, like, really worries me about Arch Manning is your last name is Manning.
12:01And why do you have all these fundamental problems when you are, you know, dropping back to pass as a
12:08quarterback?
12:08That doesn't really make any sense to me.
12:10I think if your name is Manning, your fundamentals should totally be on point.
12:14And you just watch his footwork.
12:15It's sloppy.
12:16His arm angle and arm slot selection is just very odd.
12:20So, no.
12:22That, to me, is weird.
12:24So, do I have a leader in the clubhouse for 2027?
12:26No.
12:26At this point, I don't.
12:28All right.
12:29Miles, we thank you so much for the time.
12:31Well, no, it's fine.
12:32It's good.
12:33Sorry to end on that sour note, apparently.
12:36No, it's not sour.
12:38You asked me a question.
12:39I got a question.
12:40I got a question.
12:41Okay.
12:42That's something Ken doesn't want to reflect on, and I think a lot of fans here don't.
12:47Miles Garrett in L.A.
12:50And also, like, leading the NFL in sacks and who knows, maybe chasing the record again.
12:54Maybe even being in the running for MVP.
12:57What does this move do for him and his stature?
13:01Oh, it only elevates it, right?
13:03I mean, we're – I think what's interesting is that there are people in Los Angeles who don't realize how
13:09good Miles Garrett is because I was getting texts from people I know out here that were like – and
13:15more casual football fans – that were like, well, why would the Rams do this?
13:19I mean, Jared Burst is really good.
13:21They gave up so much, and I was like, well, because you're getting back Miles bleeping Garrett.
13:25You know, Jared Burst, good, potentially great player, but Miles Garrett is all-time great already.
13:32And so the Rams are going to be on seven primetime games.
13:36They have a few more standalone games, I believe, or at least games that are in the 425 eastern window.
13:43So the entire country is going to wake up to just how good Miles Garrett is because he's going to
13:48be on TV all the time.
13:49If they didn't know how good Miles Garrett was, then –
13:52You're really getting those texts.
13:53That's probably all the ammo he ever needed to get the hell out of Cleveland because how could they not
13:57know?
13:58Does that or does that not, Miles – now I've got more questions.
14:00Does that or does that not answer why they're so obsessed with finding a quarterback?
14:04Because everybody knows about the Kansas City Chiefs because it might be because of Travis Kelsey now,
14:08but it wasn't because of Travis Kelsey before.
14:10It's because of Patrick Mahomes.
14:12Oh, yeah.
14:13No, it is because without the quarterback, what can you do, right?
14:18I mean, like, yeah, the Browns had a really good season in 2023,
14:22and Miles Garrett arguably could have been the MVP of the league that year because, I mean,
14:26look at what the Browns were putting out at quarterback,
14:28and then you'd get to the playoffs and, yeah, the quarterback problem,
14:31where is its ugly head?
14:32But if you have that guy who can pretty much get you to at least nine wins every single year
14:39–
14:39I mean, I guess maybe not if you're Cincinnati –
14:42then you can at least have a chance to be competitive.
14:46And that's where the defenders, like, actually make that much of a difference,
14:50if you have a competent offense.
14:51If you don't have a competent offense, everything you do defensively can be for naught.
14:56So, yeah, and I promise you, Ken, I did get those texts.
14:59Ten seconds.
15:00That's crazy.
15:01Ten seconds.
15:02Eliminate those people from your life.
15:04Ten seconds.
15:05I'm kidding.
15:06If Miles Garrett wins one Super Bowl with the Rams,
15:10does he go into the Hall of Fame as a Ram or a Cleveland Brown?
15:14Well, they don't do that.
15:15It's the Hall of Fame.
15:16It's just –
15:17Oh, come on.
15:18We always talk about – come on.
15:19Who pays for the party?
15:22The Browns do.
15:23The Browns do.
15:24But, I mean, it'd be similar with the Lions.
15:27Maybe.
15:28Miles.
15:28He would –
15:29Safford's more a Ram than a Lion.
15:31He don't want to –
15:31Yeah, he don't want to tell you bad news before we let him go.
15:34Do you think that was part of the negotiation?
15:36Who pays for the Hall of Fame week?
15:40I doubt it.
15:43Miles, thank you so much for the time, buddy.
15:44All the very best.
15:46All right.
15:47Same to you guys.
15:47Take care.
15:48Miles Simmons, Pro Football Talk, ProFootballTalk.com.
15:51What?
15:51Oh!
15:51We didn't even –
15:52But we didn't even talk to Miles about what his boss wrote about the tax implications
15:55of Miles Garrett going to California.
15:58He saw that.
15:59He saw that, too.
15:59Oh, yeah.
16:00Two and a half extra million.
16:02Wow.
16:02Hold the call.
16:02I got to go back to Ohio.
16:04If Jimmy Haslam pays for the entire weekend, the Hall of Fame weekend,
16:09and all of a sudden he's wearing Ram stuff, oh, boy.
16:12Oh, boy.
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