00:00I'm Joe DeLeon, A-Z Sports NFL Draft Analyst, joining us right now.
00:04Joe, welcome back to the show.
00:06How are you guys doing? I appreciate you having me as always.
00:08Well, it's great to have you here.
00:09I think there's a Jordan Tyson conversation we have to have.
00:14It seems like there's some in the draft community that believe his stock is sliding in the draft.
00:20Is that how you're perceiving what's going on with Jordan Tyson right now?
00:24Well, the thing with Jordan Tyson is that I think this conversation is one that's been had and started to
00:31be had right after the end of the college football season.
00:34He was super banged up this year.
00:35His entire career is just riddled with injuries, injuries that took him off the field, like serious injuries.
00:42We're not talking about like an occasional hamstring pull and whatnot.
00:45I think that this narrative started to really bubble and gain momentum at the NFL combine.
00:51He doesn't test. He doesn't perform.
00:53He benches, a bunch of half reps, which was kind of funny that everybody was excited about the reps that
00:59he put up.
01:00But that's a completely separate point.
01:02Him not being really available for most of this pre-draft process to do on-field testing and drills, it
01:09feeds into it.
01:10Pretty simply, when we have a prospect who is talented, has either an injury history or a serious injury that
01:17impacted their availability in their career,
01:20being brought up as just a talking point by them not showing up for workouts,
01:25it's only going to increase the severity and the concern of that player.
01:29Jermon McCoy is another guy who chose not to participate at the combine despite being hurt and carrying his ACL
01:35over a year before the NFL combine.
01:37It's the same exact thing.
01:39If you're not going to go onto the field to quiet those concerns, it's only going to get worse for
01:44you.
01:44So I think the same thing here is just happening for Tyson, which has been happening over the past couple
01:48of months.
01:49I mean, he's comped out as a taller Stephon Diggs.
01:51Like, there's a lot of hype around him.
01:53But if the idea is that he's just never going to be able to be on the field or not
01:56healthy enough,
01:57like, is that enough of a red flag?
01:58Like, where do you have him if the Browns were to consider him at six and stack up the other
02:03wide receivers?
02:04In a pure vacuum, it's like I was just talking projection, how I like him, remove the injuries if he
02:10has a clean medical history.
02:12To me, he reminded me of Justin Jefferson.
02:14I see a kid who's super smooth, who can do everything right.
02:18He runs a full route tree, gets in and out of his breaks really quickly.
02:21He putts super cleanly.
02:23This is a guy who can be a primary target.
02:26But because of that injury stuff and him playing a position where, like, having lingering issues and injuries that affect
02:34mobility and whatnot,
02:36that, to me, is enough to drag him further down.
02:39Now, I do think that he's still worth being picked in the first round.
02:43Six overall, to me, just in general for any of these wide receivers, is still, like, really, really high.
02:48But I don't think it's in the Browns' best interest to take him, considering that they need somebody that they
02:54can rely on and that they can count on.
02:55At the end of the day, I know it's a super easy cliche, but availability is the best availability.
03:00And Tyson has not had consistent availability.
03:04A team that maybe doesn't need to worry about that risk as much, maybe they already have, like, a number
03:09one wide receiver
03:10and, you know, a solidified receiver room, a good quarterback.
03:13If he needed to get brought along slowly or he was dealing with injuries as a rookie or whatnot, that
03:18would probably be a better spot for him.
03:19But I think that the Browns need someone who has had a proven track record of being able to stay
03:24on the field.
03:26Joe, obviously, the big talk this week in the draft community sprung from Dan Orlovsky's Ty Simpson take.
03:33And that is then, big ad, about 100 more Ty Simpson takes.
03:37I'll ask you, what do you make of the Ty Simpson discourse this week?
03:40Man, I hate this time of year where, like, I feel like we're just going so over the top with
03:48these discussions on certain players.
03:50I really like Ty Simpson.
03:52I feel like I like Ty Simpson more than most people because you either think that Ty Simpson is a
03:59first-round pick
04:00or you think that it's too much of a risk to take a guy that hasn't played much and has
04:05a lean frame.
04:06And a lot of those people, which my co-host Ryan Roberts is one of them, that thinks he's not
04:12worth a first-round pick.
04:13And Orlovsky decided that he had to take this to a ridiculous step further by pushing this narrative
04:20that he is not only his favorite quarterback, better more than Mendoza,
04:25but he's also gotten feedback from NFL teams that he's the number one quarterback on their draft big board.
04:33I just, I find it hard to believe, first of all, but the ridiculousness of Orlovsky to state that there's
04:38no big games in his career
04:41when, for Fernando Mendoza, in a way of comparing him to Ty Simpson, is insane,
04:47considering the fact that Simpson struggled in some of the biggest matchups that Alabama had this year
04:52and for the fact that Mendoza had insane performances, great games in the National Championship,
04:58and the Big Ten Championship, his numbers are gaudy, and I'm sure that that's what Orlovsky was looking at.
05:04But the throws that he made in those games are far better than anything that Ty Simpson put on film.
05:08So this whole thing just feels like it becomes so visceral, like that we have to be so aggressive
05:16with how we're taking a side on this when I think that there's a spectrum for evaluating players
05:21that you can like Ty Simpson, but you don't have to jump to this conclusion of tearing down Mendoza
05:26in order to support your claim.
05:28All right, so then it sounds like, so you like, you do like Ty Simpson, though.
05:32Yeah.
05:33Should we be talking about him more as a serious option for the Browns at number six, or is it
05:37just strictly at 24?
05:39I feel like most realistically at 24, because at the end of the day, as good and as natural as
05:46he is as a quarterback,
05:48and why he can overcome some of those concerns and for, like, everything that he put on tape
05:54and his best performances, all that stuff that shows he can be a starting quarterback,
05:58for all that stuff, he still has some significant red flags as a prospect.
06:03The most important one is the limited playing time.
06:07The history of quarterbacks that have played as few games as he has, it's not good.
06:12It is a position that we all know, and it's been talked about a million times over.
06:15You need to be on the field, you need to learn, you need to be through, be able to experience
06:20as many different situations as possible
06:23to know how to respond to those situations.
06:26He does not have enough of a sample size to understand and know how he's going to develop.
06:31And I think that with all of that, you can't take a guy that early.
06:36Otherwise, you just end up doing the Mitch Stravinsky and the Anthony Richardson bit all over again.
06:41You get hyped up on what the potential can be, but because he's played so little,
06:45it's going to take a lot longer for said player to come along.
06:48So no, I don't think it's worth him going sixth overall.
06:50I think he'll be much smarter for him to either be 24th overall or for maybe the Browns to trade
06:55up somewhere in the team.
06:58Joe DeLeon, A to C Sports NFL draft analyst on the Make It Right Call Kyle Wright hotline.
07:04One of our favorite Cleveland kind of adjacent draft analyst guys is Bill Sparks.
07:11And he's got a Sparks scouting substack that we quoted earlier today where he looked at the six quarterbacks with
07:18six plus starts that were late rounds.
07:21So fourth round and on since 2016.
07:24And he averaged out their stats and kind of like put up of like, what good could this be what
07:29we expect for Shador?
07:31So if Shador in 2026 had this stat line, I want to get your take on how good or whatever
07:38you think the Browns would be.
07:3964% completion percentage, 19 touchdowns, 11 interceptions and 13 starts.
07:46If he did that in 2026, I mean, God, I mean, the completion percentage, I think he's carrying a lot
07:54of the weight there.
07:56You said 19 touchdowns and 11 interceptions is the projection there.
08:00Is that what you said?
08:01Are the average of quarterbacks who kind of fit the same criteria, Shador, not necessarily projection.
08:06Yeah, I mean, that's not that way.
08:09Shador theoretically started this year and that was what he put together.
08:12I understand it's not a direct projection for what he can do.
08:15That's not a quarterback that you should build around.
08:17That is a too many turnovers.
08:21It's not enough touchdown production to justify having 11 interceptions.
08:26I think that this kind of fits where, again, I know it's not directly tied, as you said, to what
08:30Shador could do this upcoming season.
08:32But it does feel like that is what Shador Sanders is capable of.
08:36We saw some of the tool limitations that he had this year and also the processing limitations where he made
08:44a lot of brutal mistakes and errors where he was forcing things that just were not there.
08:50I think that he would need to significantly outperform that.
08:54He would need to be a lot cleaner, especially than he was last year, in order to justify him sticking
08:58around for more years and for more in the long-term future.
09:03So I feel like if that was the type of season that he put out there, that would be quite
09:09disappointing.
09:09And I think it's time to turn the page.
09:11Yeah, I'm trying to see if there's a direct comp or someone from last year that kind of sits in
09:15that little numbers gap that we put him in.
09:19And C.J. Stroud is actually really close.
09:2064% completion percentage, just over 3,000 yards passing, 19 touchdowns, 8 interceptions.
09:26And then the convo with C.J. all last year was, he's not doing enough here.
09:30And are they even going to extend him out in Houston because he wasn't doing enough and the defense was
09:35so good and he was letting people down?
09:37Well, the thing with C.J. Stroud, though, is that we have context of, because he's been a multi-year
09:43starter,
09:44where we have context of him being a much better player in the stat line than he had last year.
09:51And I know that it's only a free interception difference, but to me, one, I think that 11 compared to
09:578 is enough of a separation
10:00to indicate differences in making mistakes as a quarterback.
10:06But you'd be continuing to build around C.J. Stroud because of what he showed early on as a rookie
10:12and at the very beginning of his career.
10:15But if we're going off of a really bad rookie season, theoretically, with Shador, and then if he followed it
10:21up with that 19 and 11 year,
10:24I feel like that that is enough of a sample size of two seasons that there's really not much more
10:28you can get out of him.
10:29Because if you have a bad season and you follow it up with a slight improvement, that's just not enough
10:35for me to get excited about.
10:37All right, Joe, do you expect the Browns to have a top three pick in 2027?
10:43I would imagine that with the way that the current roster looks, at the end of the day,
10:48as good as the defense could be in 2026 this upcoming year,
10:54and if they end up being better than last year and doing the same thing where they end up stealing
10:59a couple of games
11:00and grinding things out in close battles against some of their division opponents,
11:07I think that the fact that we're walking into this year likely without much of a solution at quarterback,
11:13and if that's Deshaun Watson, if it is Shador Sanders, if they do let Dylan Gabriel start a significant amount
11:18of time,
11:18if they go and trade for somebody, I feel like that limitation is ultimately going to lead to this Browns
11:25team picking in the top three.
11:26I think that especially with a lot of the teams that had really just abysmal bad rosters,
11:32were aggressive to a degree in free agency to improve a lot of the things around them.
11:37But I will say Browns will have competition for that top pick because the Jets' situation is just as messy,
11:43the Cardinals' situation is just as messy,
11:45and the Dolphins' roster is just terrible.
11:48It's absolutely, absolutely terrible.
11:50So it feels likely.
11:52It really does feel likely.
11:53And I think that even if they're not picking it in the top three,
11:56there's still going to be more options for them at quarterback in next year's class.
12:01How many games do you think Deshaun Watson plays next year?
12:04I mean, that's a great question.
12:06I feel like there's so much ambiguity on his health.
12:11I feel like there's really no clarity on if he actually is ready to go.
12:17I would feel like if he is healthy, he should start as many games as possible.
12:21I mean, let the guy be fodder.
12:22For how much you've paid for him to be here and how much it's derailed the team,
12:28if you need a stopgap quarterback and you've got your offensive line that's not very good,
12:34he should go out there and he should start as much as possible.
12:37If he's available and he is recovered, I don't think that you need to force putting out
12:42Shador Sanders or Dylan Gabriel.
12:44He should start more than half your games if he is able to make it through more than that.
12:48And if he starts a full season, he absolutely should.
12:51He needs to prove to some degree his worth of, again, having gotten that gigantic contract,
12:56the huge trade that completely derailed the Browns' progress that they were showing
13:01not that long ago.
13:02I think that the Browns need to try and get as much out of him.
13:04But is that proof worth maybe missing out on a top five pick next year and having to
13:10pay Deshaun again?
13:13Well, are you saying that having to pay Deshaun again, you're saying off of the assumption
13:17that he ends up performing well enough to justify him getting to come back the following season?
13:24Is that kind of what you're implying?
13:25I imagine if he plays a full season next year, if he stays healthy, he will have played well
13:31enough to stay on the field all year.
13:33Oh, I mean, if he ends up being as bad as he was the beginning of the year that he
13:39ended
13:39up suffering the Achilles injury, I would imagine that he would be the worst, be one
13:46of the worst quarterbacks probably in the NFL if he ended up performing that poorly.
13:49I would imagine that they would probably still be swinging and picking in the top five and
13:56picking pretty early.
13:57But I feel like just because he starts most of the year, maybe me saying he'd start the
14:01full season is the wrong wording.
14:03But if he starts most of the year, I don't know if that necessarily justifies trying to
14:07bring him back.
14:08And at the end of the day, though, it might not hurt if he does play decently enough to
14:14have a bridge to whatever young quarterback they end up taking in 2027.
14:18Hate everything about it, Joe.
14:20Joe, but we do appreciate you, buddy.
14:21We'll talk to you next week.
14:23All right.
14:24Thanks, guys.
14:24Joe DeLeon there on the Make It Right Call Kyrite Hotline.
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