00:00Nick Shook of NFL.com. What's up, Shooky?
00:03Boy, that was a lot of rights in that sponsorship there.
00:06Thanks for having me, guys. How are we doing?
00:07Well, we're doing pretty well here. Always great when you're on with us.
00:11Now, I know you're more of an NFL guy here, but the Brennan Sorsby stuff comes down.
00:16It looks like very likely he'll be playing in college football in 2026,
00:21which means he won't be going the NFL route of the supplemental draft this summer.
00:24A year from now, will one year's distance from the gambling saga that we've heard about all year long,
00:32is that going to be enough to help Brennan Sorsby reaffirm his NFL stock?
00:37You know, that's a great question and a good way to look at it,
00:41because we're all thinking about, like, can he, can he play?
00:44Does this mean that he's going to go to the NFL?
00:46Because I believe as soon as this first came down, he was ruled ineligible initially.
00:50Everybody was talking about, all right, so how high of a supplemental draft pick
00:54would you spend on him?
00:55Now that it appears he's going to be going back to college football,
00:57we're now thinking about his reputation at this point next year.
01:00The only thing that's going to really rebuild his stock,
01:02or at least get to where it should be, is play another year of college football,
01:06which means that this is the best possible outcome for him and his pro potential.
01:10Now, there's obviously a lot of layers to this.
01:12You know, what does it say about the NCAA's control over their own sport,
01:15which they continue to have less and less of?
01:17What does it say about the state of legalized sports gambling in this country
01:23and the impact it has, you know, across different leagues,
01:25across different segments of the population?
01:27And then, you know, what does this also say about, you know,
01:31the future of these athletes that play in this environment?
01:34And what, you know, what rules are, what rules matter and don't matter?
01:38But as it pertains to him specifically,
01:40I think this is the best possible outcome is to play another year of college football
01:43because that's what's going to matter most to his future.
01:45I mean, he had a 27-5 touchdown-to-interception ratio last year.
01:48He had a good junior season in Cincinnati,
01:51except for that season opener that lost to Nebraska,
01:53a very run-heavy, grinded-out game.
01:56But we're really only going to know the most about him
01:58and his potential in the NFL
01:59by watching him play one more season of college football.
02:00So a year from now, we might think,
02:03hey, it was a good thing that teams didn't spend
02:06a second-round supplemental draft pick on him,
02:08which I don't think they would have.
02:09I think the bidding would have started in the third round.
02:11Or we would be saying, damn, wish our team would have gotten him
02:16because now he's a first-round prospect.
02:17We won't know until after this season.
02:19When we go through the draft process, though,
02:21let's say he does light it up the way he's expected to.
02:23Do you feel like teams are going to turn around
02:25and say his decision-making just isn't good enough for us
02:27with these problems he's already put out there?
02:30Or is it going to be looked at as,
02:33well, it just is what it is, not a big deal.
02:35He can swing it.
02:36Yeah, that's what's interesting is because
02:39we're really kind of talking about,
02:41this is kind of a crazy discussion to have,
02:42but this is the world we live in.
02:43And which character red flags matter more and matter less
02:47on the long list and wide range of character red flags
02:50that come with a lot of prospects
02:52who have a variety of transgressions in college?
02:56I think that's a really funny way of looking at it.
02:58But it's also, I think, a great question to ask
03:00because of the way that his lawyers have kind of put it out.
03:04They framed this in the court of law
03:05and why they got the injunction that's going to allow them to play
03:08with the understanding they'll miss the first two games of the season,
03:10which is a deal that they had offered initially,
03:12which they're framing it as, hey, look, the NCAA,
03:16instead of supporting him in his well-being
03:19and helping him get treatment and help for gambling addiction,
03:22you punished him for his issue.
03:25And they kind of took the, I guess it's kind of a righteous approach
03:29in analyzing the whole thing.
03:31And that's what convinced the judge that, hey, you know what?
03:33You're right.
03:34They actually aren't looking out for his best interest
03:36as they claim to do,
03:37whereas the NCAA is all talking about the integrity of the sport.
03:41How do we view that a year from now?
03:43It's a phenomenal question because, you know,
03:45what's our precedent for this?
03:47Guys who, coming out of college,
03:49have a history of gambling problems coming to the pros.
03:51We really don't have one.
03:53We don't have a comparison for this.
03:54When you think about baseball,
03:55you think about in this town, Emmanuel Classe,
03:57you know, booted out of baseball for what he did, right?
04:00It's usually punitive, and it's a last straw measure
04:03where it's like, that's it.
04:04They're gone.
04:05They disappear.
04:05We've never had to think about somebody
04:07who's going to then make the jump to the pros
04:08with the history of this issue.
04:09I think this will not be the only case that happens,
04:11I'm sure of it, as we go forward.
04:14So I think it's going to be a great combination
04:15as this continues to adjust,
04:17as we continue to adjust on the fly
04:19with this whole new world of legalized gambling
04:20of how people look at it.
04:21But as it stands right now, I don't know
04:23because teams forgive a lot if you're really good.
04:28As bad as it is, teams forgive a lot
04:31if you're an exceptional football player,
04:33and it kind of goes on a sliding scale.
04:35And in the larger picture of issues and things,
04:39you know, mistakes that players have made,
04:41transgressions, whatever you might want to describe it as,
04:43this wouldn't really rise that highly
04:45if he plays really well and his stock becomes so strong
04:49that it's undeniable and that they'll be able to,
04:51you know, be willing to overlook those things.
04:52But that's another question that's going to be answered,
04:53I think, next spring as we're preparing for the draft.
04:56Nick, we got a quarterback battle of Bruin.
04:59Deshaun Watson had some momentum early.
05:02A lot of reports suggesting that maybe Shador
05:06has made a push for this thing here recently.
05:09Obviously, mandatory OTAs beginning this week for the Browns.
05:12You're not just an NFL.com guy or NFL writer.
05:15You're also a Cleveland's own.
05:17How invested are you in this quarterback battle?
05:20That's a great question because I think,
05:23I don't think it's going to be that much of a battle.
05:28You just mentioned what's going on in the last week or so,
05:30but just the way that the Browns have kind of approached this
05:32since the start of the spring,
05:33it just felt like they're going to put themselves in a position
05:35to where there's going to be no questioning really
05:38and Deshaun's going to be their guy until they take the field.
05:40Once they take the field, you know, all bets are off
05:43and we have to kind of evaluate their performances from there.
05:46But it just feels like this is going to be one of those things
05:48where they might present it as a competition.
05:50I don't know if it ends up really being a one-to-one competition
05:53that we've seen in years past.
05:55It just feels like they're kind of setting themselves up
05:57to give him the lead on the job
05:59and let him, you know, take over the reins
06:01and then go from there.
06:03I'm invested in it just because I'm fascinated to see
06:06if they can get anything out of either guy.
06:08I'm pretty sure Shador is going to be a long-term backup
06:13with pretty high upside as a backup,
06:15and that's a great place to be in the NFL.
06:16You can carve out a long career that way.
06:18Maybe he exceeds those expectations.
06:20I wouldn't, you know, put bank on that as of this point right now,
06:24and I don't really know if he's necessarily going to see
06:26the type of opportunities he needs to prove that this year
06:28unless the Deshaun thing goes poorly,
06:30which we've had four years of history that says it could go poorly
06:33save for that one second half in Baltimore
06:35and that one season in which he won the majority of the games
06:37before he suffered a season-ending injury.
06:40I'm actually most fascinated to see if there's anything left
06:42in the tank for Deshaun
06:44because they've gotten nothing out of this contract.
06:46This has been the worst contract, I think, in NFL history.
06:48It's the worst trade in NFL history.
06:50It would be fitting of the Browns
06:53to get just a little bit out of it in the last year
06:55and then walk themselves into a poorly timed extension
06:58or something like that.
06:59So that's really what fascinates me most.
07:01And I think that regardless,
07:03we're going to be talking quarterback, you know,
07:05we're going to be talking about the next quarterback
07:06at this time next year.
07:08Why is it you feel like it's not much of a competition?
07:12Just the way that they kind of approach this.
07:14In years past, Deshaun was so out of the picture
07:16with Stefanski at the helm
07:18that we kind of just acknowledged that he was on the roster
07:21and he wasn't in the mix.
07:22And I know a lot of that had to do with health,
07:23especially after the Achilles and re-injuring the Achilles,
07:25you know, having two surgeries on the Achilles
07:27and everything else.
07:28It just felt like it was a lost cause.
07:30And yet now, for some reason,
07:32they've shifted back toward,
07:33well, we'll leave the door open for it
07:34and give him a shot.
07:35And as we've progressed from, you know,
07:37Jimmy Haslam kind of changing his approach
07:39and his public stance on Deshaun
07:41at the owners' meetings, you know, months ago
07:44to where we are now,
07:45it just kind of seems to be continuing
07:46to head in that direction.
07:48And the hard part about right now is like,
07:50you know, you guys are,
07:51either you guys are out there
07:52or some of the fellow beat is out there
07:54watching these OTAs and everything else.
07:56And you have your highlight throw of the day,
07:58but they're in shorts and jerseys and helmets.
08:00Like, there's still really not that much
08:02to take from it overall.
08:04And so we can't really glean
08:06all that much information from it
08:07until we get to camp in the summer.
08:08It just feels like the way
08:10that they are approaching camp right now,
08:11Deshaun comes in as the leader
08:14and is probably just going to end up
08:16being QB1 unless something,
08:18you know, drastic and unexpected happens.
08:20All right.
08:21So we've had the Miles Garrett trade here.
08:24What to you is most important from that deal?
08:28Like, what has to work out
08:29from the Brown side of things
08:30for this to all look like a good deal?
08:34I think they have to,
08:35I mean, the number one on top of that list,
08:37besides, because you've got to prove
08:39a commodity in Jared Verse.
08:40And as long as he stays healthy,
08:41I think you guys are going to love him.
08:42I thought that was an excellent return
08:44on Miles Garrett,
08:45given all the circumstances surrounding it.
08:47As soon as I found out
08:48about the details of that trade,
08:49I was like, that's a hell of a haul
08:50for Andrew Barry.
08:51You know, getting Verse back
08:52in that deal is big time.
08:53I understand why they even considered it now
08:54because Verse,
08:55that's a top 10 edge Russia right now.
08:57He's 25 years old.
08:58He's cost controlled.
08:59He's got an incredibly high ceiling.
09:01There is no second Miles Garrett.
09:02You're not replacing a one for one,
09:04but you're getting a very good player in return,
09:05which is just uncommon of these trades.
09:07Usually you just get picks.
09:08But the next thing on that list
09:09is then using that first round pick wisely.
09:11Not only because it's the first pick
09:13you get out of this trade,
09:14but it's also the most valuable pick
09:15you get out of this trade.
09:16And that's why we go all the way back
09:17around to the quarterback situation.
09:18They've now given themselves the ammunition
09:20to move up in next year's draft
09:21if they want to,
09:21to get the quarterback that they want.
09:23And so how do you use that properly?
09:26You know, Andrew Barry
09:27had a good draft last year.
09:28I think he had a good draft this year.
09:29We'll still wait to see from the results.
09:30If he can nail a third draft in a row
09:33and a lot of that depends
09:34on how he uses that second,
09:35first round pick,
09:36then the Browns could be
09:37in a pretty good situation
09:38and the turnaround could actually
09:39become kind of conceivable.
09:41But that's what's most important
09:43is using that first round pick wisely.
09:44And then from, you know,
09:45the years on after that,
09:46you're just lucky to have
09:47an extra second and extra third.
09:48Would you trade Denzel Ward?
09:50No, not at this point.
09:53You know, age-wise,
09:54I think he's still an excellent corner.
09:55You cannot really overvalue
09:58good corners in this league.
09:59I would get the most out of him
10:01on his remaining contract
10:03as you lean on your defense
10:04yet again this year.
10:06And, you know,
10:07maybe when the time comes down the road,
10:08you think about it.
10:09But right now, no.
10:10I think that the Miles Garrett trade
10:11was a one-off.
10:12It was not a sign of a fire sale.
10:14I understand why it could be
10:15interpreted as such.
10:16But at this point, yes,
10:18I know that he's not
10:19on the earlier part of his 20s either.
10:20He's a little bit younger
10:21than Miles Garrett.
10:22I think he plays a key role
10:23in your remaining defense.
10:25And again, going back to Garrett,
10:26the only reason I would really
10:27ever even consider making that trade
10:28and I think why Andrew Barry did
10:29is because it included Jared Burst.
10:30You weren't creating a massive void
10:32on your defense
10:33by trading Miles Garrett
10:34in exchange for some draft capital.
10:36You were also getting
10:37an immediate replacement,
10:38which is why it makes it
10:39more palatable.
10:40There's no need to trade
10:41Denzel Ward for future capital
10:42when you're already
10:43starting to stockpile.
10:44And also because it's really hard
10:45to find a corner who plays
10:46as well as he does,
10:47consistently as he does,
10:48as long as he can stay
10:49on the field.
10:49All right, so it's mid-October.
10:53You're a one-win team
10:54and somebody's offering you
10:56a first-round pick in 2027
10:58for Denzel.
10:59Does your answer change?
11:02Yeah, first-round pick for 2027.
11:04At that point,
11:05then you're looking at three.
11:06I mean, you have to start considering
11:08how long is he under contract, right?
11:10You have him under contract
11:11for this season and next season,
11:12and then the void years
11:13start piling up.
11:14I guess at that point,
11:15you consider it.
11:16But this has never been
11:18about this year, though.
11:19And that's the thing is,
11:21it really comes down
11:22to his quality of play.
11:23If he starts to show signs
11:24that he's not playing
11:25at the level that he has
11:25over the last four years,
11:27then yeah, you consider it.
11:28And especially for a first-round pick.
11:30But I don't think it's dependent
11:30on the fact that you're not
11:31contending this year.
11:33It's more about, like,
11:34where do you see him
11:35in the next two to three years?
11:35Is he part of that plan
11:36and that timeline or not?
11:38Because if he's not,
11:39then you consider it.
11:39But as of right now,
11:40I don't think he pulled
11:41the trigger on it.
11:41You get to that point
11:42in that season,
11:42they give you something
11:43as strong as that,
11:44which would be an incredibly high price,
11:45I think, for him,
11:46especially in the middle
11:47of the season
11:47when you're essentially paying
11:48for a year-and-a-half rental.
11:50Yeah, then you would consider it.
11:51Shooky, great stuff, buddy.
11:53Appreciate you.
11:53Be good.
11:54Thanks for having me, guys.
11:56Nick Shook there, NFL.com.
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