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00:00Parents strongly cautioned, this program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:45Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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02:04Because they deserve it.
02:05I am a woman, hear me roll.
02:07On International Women's Weekend, March 7th and 8th, we continue to celebrate those who are gone but not forgotten.
02:15Also, a special celebration appearance by the Calypso Monarch of the World, Terry Lyons.
02:23On Saturday 7th, March at Napa, 6 p.m.
02:27And Sunday 8th at Sapa, 5 p.m.
02:30As Trinbego receives a blessing.
02:33Past Women Champions to be celebrated.
02:35Singing Sandra, Singing Francine, and Denise Plummer.
02:39Also, funny, shadow, maestro, blacks, Rico, arrow.
02:45Your master of ceremonies.
02:48Sunny Blaine, tickets $300 and $250.
02:51$50 off by Monday, March 2nd, if stocks last.
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03:01Gone but not forgotten.
03:03Celebrating International Women's Weekend.
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03:20For the investigations that matter most to TNT, turn to the team you trust.
03:24The TV6 News.
03:26We do the work to uncover the facts, ask the important questions,
03:29and report on the issues that impact your community and the nation at large.
03:33This is more than just news.
03:35It's accountability.
03:36The undisputed number one program in Trinidad and Tobago.
03:39Delivering the hard-hitting investigations you rely on.
03:42The TV6 News.
03:44Revealing facts.
03:45Provoking opinions.
03:49One day I was out playing with my friend Kevin, and he was really moody.
03:54Kinda sad and angry at the same time.
03:57I asked him what was the matter.
03:59Someone in his family had been doing mean things to him.
04:02He said he had to keep it a secret.
04:05So I asked Kevin, is it a good secret or a bad secret?
04:09He said he didn't know.
04:11I explained good secrets are cool things like a surprise party or a gift for a special occasion.
04:18A bad secret is when someone hurts or harms you and tells you not to tell anyone.
04:24Sometimes they might give you little things to make sure you don't tell.
04:28That's another bad secret to keep.
04:30That's mean and controlling.
04:33Kevin said it definitely fell into the bad secret category.
04:37I felt this was something an adult should help with.
04:41Because as a child when someone hurts you, you can feel really alone and afraid.
04:46And the best people to help you are the ones you love and really, really trust.
04:52I asked him if there was any adult that he trusted.
04:55So we worked up a little plan for Kevin to talk to one of them.
04:59A while after that, I could see my friend was doing much better.
05:03Now we tell all our pals about good secrets and bad secrets so that we can all feel brave, safe
05:11and strong.
05:20What you can't see from this image is a man lying in a pool of blood in his living room.
05:26He was shot dead a short while ago as two bandits tried to rob him and his family.
05:32What you can't hear is his wife crying inconsolably.
05:36What you don't know is that his four-year-old daughter is standing looking at her father, confused, begging him
05:42to wake up.
05:43Can you imagine what this wife and child are going through and what they will have to go through?
05:48They try to process what has happened.
05:51How can we begin to help?
05:52We can start right here at the Victim and Witness Support Unit.
05:56From investigation to counseling, to helping families find justice, to helping families find peace.
06:05This unit gives victims and witnesses hope to cope.
06:09We are the Victim and Witness Support Unit, bridging the service gap between the victims, witnesses and the police.
06:16We are the Victim and Witness Support Unit.
06:48Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 in fines and lose your license permanently.
06:56No?
06:57Then don't drink and drive.
07:00A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
07:04So CTAs say that they're doing the ABC of parenting, so I say I have to get in that.
07:12You know anything with the ABCs, I like to get in that.
07:17I started with A for accountability.
07:21So you just mash up things from a side when you get vexed, and then you surprised when you get
07:27called into the school for your child doing the same thing?
07:33Recognize that as a parent, you are one of the biggest influences on your child's life.
07:39You have to acknowledge that your actions and choices can impact your child's development and growth.
07:46Take time to account for any consequences your actions may have on your child and always acknowledge that responsibility before
07:55saying or doing anything.
07:57Your actions speak louder than your words, but at the end of the day, do your best.
08:06Share if you found this useful and like and follow CTA's profile for more parenting tips as we go through
08:15the ABCs of parenting.
08:42This is my right to have an education.
08:46It is important for me to have an education, to eventually help mommy and daddy out of this poverty situation.
08:55Legal age of employment in TNT is 16 years old.
09:00Or maybe my parents forgot.
09:03Why else would they send me to sell butter nuts?
09:06Mentally, I got frustrated.
09:10Physically, I got weak and thin.
09:13What I wish is that children's education will not be sacrificed.
09:17Stop child labor, no.
09:19Report child labor to the Labor Inspectorate Unit at 299-0300, Option 3 or 285-5133, Option 4.
09:41Good evening, Trinidad and Tobago.
09:42And those of you who are locked on globally, we welcome you to Beyond the Tape.
09:45I'm your host, Whitney Husband.
09:47And today, we asked the question, and it's not just us.
09:51I believe in the Senate yesterday, the question was asked with regards to legislation concerning police-involved shootings and the
09:58footage and material that may show evidence of officers being involved in an altercation with anyone and the police involving
10:06a shooting incident.
10:07Where do we stand with that, and is it something that they have to hold very close to when it
10:13comes to investigation?
10:14We will discuss that and so much more today because today is Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
10:19And the man who helps us understand the law better in Trinidad and Tobago because he is so versed in
10:25understanding and giving it to us in layman terms.
10:27We have our tenured law, Mr. Ali, who is here with us.
10:31And of course, as I mentioned before, he also wears the head of Director of Policy and Community Support at
10:37the Ministry of Homeland Security.
10:39Mr. Ali, good evening to you, sir, and how are you?
10:41Well, you know, good evening to you as well, Whitney.
10:44Before I say anything this afternoon, you know, meeting you after the carnival period,
10:48I must let the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago know that I've seen a side of you that, you know,
10:55was very inspiring.
11:00And, you know, you stood out during that carnival period with reference to your other engagements.
11:06And, you know, one thing that I really appreciate and I salute you for is I saw that during the
11:10festive time,
11:11you were very vocal in terms of how you saluted the cultural icons in Trinidad and Tobago, and I respect
11:17that.
11:17I think that, you know, you went beyond just having a good time partying.
11:22You actually spoke deeply in terms of and inspired the cultural icons.
11:27So I want to salute you this afternoon on behalf of the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
11:31It was a job well done, and I'm sure that you had the red, white, and black all over the
11:35globe.
11:35Of course, you represent. You always make me feel like a biter.
11:38No, you know, I believe in, you know, this is a holy month as well, and I believe in speaking
11:43the truth always, you know.
11:44And I also want to share it to your other co-hosts.
11:47You know, he's on another platform, but, you know, I want to recognize him as well, JW, as well.
11:53But this afternoon, Whitney, good evening to you again.
11:56Good evening to Jackie and our family on Beyond the Tape.
11:59And before I go forward as well, you know, sometimes they say in life that you must always be in
12:03a position to be able to adapt.
12:06And just moments ago, Whitney, you know, with the expertise, you know, I never had the opportunity to see Jackie
12:16move so swiftly, you know, to resolve an issue beyond the tape, you know.
12:23So, Jackie, thank you very much for what you have just done.
12:26And, you know, it's, you know, that happens sometimes, and it's important for you to respond and respond positively.
12:33So, thank you very much for that.
12:34To the citizens of Trinidad and to Bigos, always, it's a pleasure to share this platform, you know, to meet
12:39you in this forum.
12:41And my law enforcement colleagues in the various agencies and those who may be viewing and listening out to the
12:47jurisdiction.
12:48Whitney, I also want to take this opportunity.
12:49I know that we are in a spiritual time.
12:51Yes, we are.
12:52Ramadan, Lent.
12:53We know that the, that's correct, the Muslim community.
12:56And, you know what, I shouldn't dub it Muslim community and Christian community.
12:59I think that when you look at Trinidad and Tobago, we all, somewhere or the other, share in our religious
13:06beliefs, you know, and other matters.
13:08And, you know, I want to say to Trinidad and Tobago, let us continue to observe the period of worship
13:14and, you know, that God consciousness that we require.
13:17And, you know, God consciousness is not really limited to the church and the mosque.
13:21But even on a platform like this, I'm coming to be able to share perspectives that can guide and assist,
13:27you know, whether it be the old, the middle age, or even more children.
13:30So, as always, it's a pleasure to be here this afternoon.
13:32So, quickly, how was your carnival?
13:34Well, I know you are a very busy man and being a director and dealing with policies.
13:39Did you get time to engage in any of the festivities other than the one that you saw me in?
13:43But outside of that, how was it?
13:45Well, it was mixed.
13:47Okay.
13:47It was mixed.
13:48You know, I had very important responsibilities.
13:50On Tuesday, I was invited to accompany the Honorable Minister and all heads of national security on a walkthrough in
14:00Port of Spain and environs.
14:01And I really enjoyed the walk as well, you know, meeting persons.
14:04And Whitney, I must say that the many that came up to me, they also shared, you know, positive vibes
14:11where you are concerned as well.
14:12And to be on the tape, so I want to bring it to be on the tape with the response
14:16and the feedback from members of the public.
14:18But it was really, really inspiring, enjoyable.
14:20And, you know, I had the opportunity to go across the stage, not in a costume.
14:25Oh, oh, I was now going to say what and Jackie didn't get a picture or video.
14:29Yeah, it wasn't costume style, but it was in official capacity.
14:33Okay, understood.
14:34So, I got the opportunity to feel, you know, that essence, you know, that significance.
14:38Because when you hear a masquerader, one of the biggest things on Carnival is crossing that stage.
14:42Of course.
14:43You know, so I was happy to be there.
14:44But, you know, all in all, good experience.
14:46And I'm happy that the feedback coming out of Carnival as well, that it was a safe Carnival, generally speaking.
14:51And I hope that we can continue to build early o'clock for the next Carnival in every different context
14:57in terms of, you know,
14:58always looking for ways to improve, you know, our very important event of Carnival.
15:03Yes, most definitely.
15:04And, of course, I know many times persons really try to get in as quickly as possible.
15:08So, we will let you all know.
15:10Get ready to give us a call at 623-1711, extension 1996 and 1997, when it comes to us opening
15:17up the phone lines.
15:18Because, you know, when we have our turn here, many persons will have many questions that need to be answered.
15:23Now, could we dive in quickly here with regards to what I opened with the legislation, proposed legislation from the
15:32Honorable Minister of Homeland Security?
15:34And it's just a suggestion being made.
15:38Most certainly with me.
15:40For just really and truly the police involved shooting when it comes to footage.
15:44Most certainly.
15:44And I'm happy that you raised that as well.
15:47In the Senate yesterday, the Honorable Minister of Homeland Security was very clear with reference to when the question was
15:53posed and whether, in fact, there's any intention to bring legislation to regulate this particular area.
15:57He was very clear that there's not the intention to bring legislation to suppress.
16:03But, importantly here, and this is the important part, that he gave some very strong advice, especially where he sit
16:08as Minister of Homeland Security, with the line responsibility over the primary body, which is the Trinidad and Tobago Police
16:15Service, which has the mandate or the significant duty to detect crime and other infractions of the law.
16:21So, he was very, very on point with reference to advising that if persons are in possession of footage, that
16:29he advised that you bring it to the police in the first instance so that the police can have use
16:34of the video to progress any investigations.
16:38And that's an important element.
16:39And I'll just go a little bit step further.
16:41One of the important elements or the reason for bringing it to the police as well, Whitney, many may not
16:47know or may not take the opportunity to look at a particular video.
16:50When you're dealing with crime and criminality and you're looking at the integrity of an investigation, there may be things
16:54in that video which we call sometimes fine details.
16:58If you basically throw it out into the public domain, and I should say this in a loose manner or
17:05in a reckless manner, sometimes you may be doing an injustice or you may have the likelihood of prejudicing an
17:12inquiry, especially if you're looking at things like ID parades.
17:14You may be looking at, as I said before, fine details where if a witness has to come forward and
17:19give a statement who may have observed that particular crime.
17:22You know, if that person is seen beforehand, the video widely spread, they come in to give a statement.
17:28That's public knowledge.
17:29So, you know, there is a, like I always believe, that there must be a very careful balance.
17:35So, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago have the opportunity to video, as I said before, to videotape.
17:41The minister has advised, and I support the minister in terms of bringing the video to TTPS to progress an
17:45inquiry before you throw it into the public domain.
17:49That can cause or likely to cause prejudice to an ongoing inquiry.
17:53I would also like to take one further step, while it may have been directed to police issues with me.
17:59Yes, that is what, from what I read, it was directed to police issues with shooting incidents or any engagement
18:05with officers.
18:06Yes, yes, and I want to extend it, that when you are speaking about crime and criminality, I think that
18:11we need to take this position beyond police activities or police actions.
18:18Well, that's also what I'm going to ask, why are we stopping there, if that is the case, to make
18:22sure, to protect the evidence.
18:23That's correct.
18:24Now, being devil's advocate here, now, and persons will say, but the officers will have evidence for other matters and
18:31may have misplaced it or they can't find it or it was tampered.
18:35We're not saying that is the case, but you know, those were the questions that persons will ask.
18:40What would you say to them when it comes to this, because this is sensitive information that is now going
18:44to be placed in the hands of the TTPS?
18:46Brilliant, brilliant question, and if the advice is to give the police the footage, what I will advise you all
18:52to do is to keep a copy of it.
18:53Okay.
18:54So that if you give the police the footage, and as you indicated, if there, for some reason, there are
18:58suspicious circumstances and it's suppressed, then you, as a matter of fact, you have built a foundation to say, well,
19:04here is a secondary that I kept, and that can also be placed into the evidence or to force accountability
19:11and transparency.
19:12But the key is that if you have your primary body, Whitney, as the TTPS, and may I go a
19:19little bit further as well, because in the law books, we also have what?
19:22The police complaints authority.
19:24Authority, yes.
19:25Which also is an entity that has a legal duty to look at police misconduct, criminality that may be, the
19:34police may have, allegedly may have been involved in.
19:37So if you have evidence as well in that format, you can also give consideration to the police complaints authority.
19:42But I think the key here is that we want responsible behavior and responsible conduct, because what's the end game?
19:49In other words, you are aware of footage. You may have been fortunate to capture the footage, whether through your
19:55CCTV, privately, whether on the public road, you may have had the opportunity if the circumstances are proper to be
20:01able to record.
20:02Yes.
20:02But what's the end game? What's the outcome? The outcome is that you are looking to promote what? The justice.
20:08And if you are looking to promote justice, which entity in law is jurisdicted to take the matters forward?
20:15TTPS.
20:15Yes, police complaints authority. So it's not that you are suppressed from, you know, using your footage, but I'm saying
20:22to you that if you understand the integrity issues, the evidential issues, most persons will come into line and recognize,
20:31listen, it's important for me to go to the proper fountain to be able to deposit this.
20:35So I think it calls for education.
20:37And speaking of education, I don't just like to leave things hanging in the wilderness like that.
20:41And just a reference, what the express stated and the minister was saying is that he referred to the TTPS
20:49policy to review the private CCTV footage and investigations.
20:54He laid out that the footage can be acquired voluntarily.
20:58Yes.
20:58Consent given to access or by means of warrant where there is reluctance and non-cooperation.
21:04Just to be clear so persons understand, it's not just they're letting you know you have no choice.
21:09Yes.
21:09You could willingly hand it over or if they seriously need it and you refuse to, they could then take
21:14it to the law and then they will have a document showing with regards to a warrant being issued for
21:21persons to retrieve.
21:22But just and I'm happy that you're Wendy as well. Just to build on that a little bit.
21:25At minimum, we are governed and we are guided by what we call the judge's rules.
21:30It is not law, but it's judicial guidance that has been wrong for a long time.
21:34And there's a particular rule which we refer to as rule one, which squarely places on a police officer that
21:40he can speak to anybody, suspected or not, whom he believes useful information could be obtained when he's trying to
21:49discover by whom an offense has been committed.
21:51So that looking for useful information can also be CCTV footage.
21:57So the citizen has a duty to assist the police and if they have CCTV footage, they bring it to
22:02the police.
22:02And as you went to the second limb, if that is not being done voluntarily, and we know that there
22:07may be reasons, there may be reluctance for many different reasons.
22:09I'm not naive to that.
22:10The police also has the option to go before a judicial officer or a court of competent jurisdiction, make a
22:16claim seeking the permission of the court through a search warrant
22:19to go to the location or to go to the person to be able to obtain that CCTV footage, to
22:25be able to progress an inquiry.
22:26Now, a question was asked some time ago, Whitney, and I think it's important for me to address it.
22:31The executing the warrant, it's important, especially where the owner is not supporting the process.
22:36It's important for the execution of the search warrant for someone with technical skills and ability to accompany that officer
22:43to the location so that that officer who has the technical skills and ability,
22:48maybe somebody from the IT unit, the cybercrime unit, could really understand the specifics of the particular camera in terms
22:55of its rotation, the time that may be on it,
22:58so that what you're geared towards doing is protecting the integrity of the data.
23:03So it's not just that you just get a warrant, you go to a location, because if you do not
23:06know how you're handling it, you can just contaminate the CCTV footage.
23:09So there's some processes to be invoked, but I'm happy that you take us there.
23:13But I want to end it by indicating that it's an area that is ripe for public education.
23:19All right, so as we move forward right now, let's see what's making today's headlines.
23:38And those are your stories making today's headlines.
23:41We open up the phone lines and more when we come back after this break.
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24:57Folks, take a look at all these medical conditions.
25:01What does it have in common?
25:06This, ITIS.
25:07But what does ITIS really mean?
25:10The suffix itis denotes inflammation of a specified organ or tissue.
25:15ITIS really means inflammation.
25:18How do we combat chronic inflammation?
25:20Through lifestyle changes.
25:21Then and only then, you may grow you're getting enough mega three fatty acids.
25:25Always consult a qualified medical professional before starting any supplements.
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26:14You're worth it.
26:45And we are back. It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays. We have 349s. Remember, you can give us a call at 623
26:50-1711, extension 1996 and 1997. We have a caller on the line. Caller, good evening.
26:57Good evening, Whitney. Good evening, sir.
26:59Good evening to the director.
27:02Good evening to you, sir.
27:03Sir, I am coming directly to you with some short ball in.
27:08Now, yesterday I had a discourse with one of your colleagues, and I wasn't too happy with his response.
27:16I believe he was in pivot, and he deflected away from answering the question.
27:20You, like him, similarly wear two hats.
27:24You are a CTBF officer, and now you are the director of police and strategy with Homeland Security.
27:33You brought into the discourse a term with respect to officers in the CTPS, command of their profession.
27:45You just used a term a while ago, malicious prosecution.
27:52Yesterday, I asked your colleague to give me a take on malicious prosecution with respect to officers, how the police
28:05service deal with it.
28:07And I brought it to your attention, several judgments have already been made against officers, senior and junior officers.
28:18Malicious prosecution, the court is the final arbitrator, and I don't believe the CTPS is handling those disciplinary matters.
28:26But more importantly, not only the judge, a former former H.E., who I have a question mark on his
28:33integrity, said he wants to bring legislation whereby malicious prosecution and errant officers stand debunked with respect to those issues.
28:51I want to find out from you, wearing your ministry hat, if you all have engaged the stakeholder with respect
29:03to that legislation, because I believe that would be a critical tool to cleanse the CTPS.
29:11I will listen over here.
29:14All right.
29:14Well, thank you very much, Kola.
29:16Yeah, thank you very much, Kola.
29:17Kola, I'm not aware in terms of the response yesterday, but, you know, I'll deal with it today in terms
29:22of your question.
29:23And I think that you have basically answered it for me as well, that it may call for a strong
29:27policy position.
29:28And in order to do that, perhaps you could leave your number as well with the producer.
29:34And I will take your inquiry to another level to see whether discussions could be held, to see what's the
29:42best response with reference to what you're speaking about.
29:44And it's always important to strike a balance with reference to these issues.
29:48They are very, very sensitive issues.
29:50But I understand the public interest as well.
29:52But you have basically hinted that there may be a need for a policy and who knows, maybe law reform.
29:57So thank you very much for your submission.
29:59All right, ladies and gentlemen, we take that short break.
30:01We'll be back.
30:04We'll be back.
30:06We'll be back.
30:26We'll be back.
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31:11Folks, take a look at all these medical conditions.
31:14What does it have in common?
31:18This.
31:20I-T-I-S.
31:21But what does I-T-I-S really mean?
31:24The suffix itis denotes inflammation of a specified organ or tissue.
31:29I-T-I-S really means inflammation.
31:31How do we combat chronic inflammation?
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32:48Welcome back.
32:49Trinidad and Tobago, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
32:51Now we continue to see the rogue elements continue to push the envelope
32:57when it comes to carrying out certain acts.
32:59Now we are going to head to the Brasso area where incident took place,
33:02Bandit's Blockade Road to Rob Bread Van.
33:06Police are investigating an aggravated robbery after a bakery sales representative
33:11was held up while conducting deliveries in the Brasso district on Monday night.
33:16Now one of the suspects armed with a firearm approached the van,
33:19pointed the weapon at the victim and announced a robbery.
33:22The assailant relieved him of an undisclosed sum of cash representing the day's sales.
33:29Mr. Ali, Lord, I just...
33:31Well, I'm happy that you said Lord, because from my recollection,
33:35this is a person who is, what, providing a service, right?
33:38Correct.
33:38And the service that the person is providing is what?
33:40Is food.
33:41And these are criminal elements or alleged criminal conduct
33:46with reference to the blocking the road to be able to rob someone
33:49who knows if someone may just be waiting on that bread for life.
33:54Yeah.
33:55So, you know, sometimes when you look at these things,
33:57and, you know, this is why I always ask the citizenry,
34:00you know, when we are looking at crime and criminality,
34:03to look at it in a very deep and with both lens,
34:07because of the impact and the significance of crime and criminality.
34:10And I'm new to say it, crime and criminality impacts every corner.
34:15Correct.
34:15Or every sector of Trinidad and Tobago.
34:18And that's why that should be sufficient motivation for us, Whitney,
34:21to understand that we cannot turn a blind eye.
34:25Because you may turn a blind eye because it's not affecting you now.
34:28But you don't know tomorrow it will affect you,
34:31and then you want society to respond.
34:32So we cannot be selfish as a society.
34:35And that's why when you look at crime from a critical context,
34:39you know why crime is considered when you hear case laws like R versus Green
34:44and R versus Sharp and R versus...
34:48It's unique, it's unique.
34:49And so forth.
34:50The reasons...
34:51Yeah, not only unique.
34:52The reason for that is that a crime is,
34:54while it may be perpetrated against an individual,
34:56like, for example, an assault,
34:58the nature of the activity or the conduct
35:01is viewed like if you have assaulted the entire society.
35:05So, basically, you have...
35:07You have affected, in those times,
35:13the general public are not an individual per se.
35:16And when you look at it a little deeper,
35:18when there's a crime and a matter is prosecuted,
35:21and in most cases, if there's a jury trial,
35:23who participates in the criminal justice system?
35:25The public is also involved in the process.
35:27So when you look at this thing in a very delicate and critical way,
35:31crime, in all its corners, all its facets,
35:35is directly related to where the public is concerned,
35:39whether you're in a criminal justice system
35:41or whether there's an assault,
35:42you have to consider it against you.
35:44Whether there's a rape, consider it against you.
35:46And that's the response that we require.
35:49So, just unfortunate,
35:51and I hope that those persons,
35:53whoever has intelligence or information
35:55with reference to that matter,
35:57and perhaps any other crime,
35:58I'll urge you all to bring it to law enforcement
36:02to be able to take the necessary action
36:04to be able to solve, prosecute, and convict those persons.
36:07All right.
36:07We have back to the phone lines at this time.
36:09We have a call on hold.
36:10Caller, good evening.
36:11Hi, good afternoon, panel.
36:13Good evening.
36:13Good evening, sir.
36:15I have two things I want to ask to explain.
36:18Number one, why it has taken so long
36:21for the recently passed out recruits
36:26to be given ID cards?
36:29The issue from my understanding
36:32is that whoever is printing a card,
36:37they don't have ribbons
36:38and they don't have ink.
36:41That is a big embarrassment.
36:43Number one.
36:45Number two,
36:48the punctuality problem,
36:50the police service of a population,
36:51in my opinion,
36:51a serious punctuality problem
36:54where officers who are supposed
36:56to be reporting a shift
36:58running late,
37:00while the officers who are supposed
37:01to come on shift,
37:02they have to wait on these guys.
37:04And these guys are not penalized in any way.
37:08I don't know
37:08if it's at the station level
37:12or the department level,
37:14but they have a problem
37:15with this punctuality.
37:16The police officers
37:18are not giving
37:19the amount of hours
37:21to work for the pay
37:22that they're getting.
37:23It starts from that.
37:25I'm not sure
37:26if it's the sergeant,
37:27the ASPD,
37:29the senior superman,
37:30not somebody.
37:31Somebody not doing the job.
37:32Somebody not doing the job.
37:33I am seriously concerned.
37:37Thanks a lot.
37:37All right.
37:38Thank you, Kola.
37:39Sally.
37:39Thank you, Kola.
37:40Kola, I'm concerned too.
37:42And I'll tell you
37:43why I'm concerned as well.
37:44I myself,
37:45during my tenure
37:49have experienced
37:49what you have spoken about
37:50on your second issue
37:52and what you have hinted to,
37:53and it can be very demotivating,
37:55and what you are hinting to,
37:57you are hinting perhaps
38:00there's a need to look at
38:01the management and supervision
38:02within the ranks
38:03of the police service
38:05because what you have spoken about
38:06just in brief,
38:07you will have,
38:08and you talk about officers
38:08who are relieving each other.
38:10You're going to have senior officers
38:11who are in charge of a shift,
38:12maybe a corporal,
38:13maybe a sergeant.
38:15So, if that is happening
38:16where someone is scheduled
38:18to come off work,
38:19let's say, at 8 p.m.,
38:22it is expected that
38:23at around 7 p.m.
38:24that the officers
38:25will start committing
38:26and preparing themselves
38:27physically, mentally,
38:28and otherwise
38:29to be able now
38:30to assume that responsibility
38:31unless there was
38:32something happening
38:32at 7 that run you
38:34past 8 o'clock
38:35which the exigencies
38:36of the police service
38:37will expect you to go forward
38:38and then other accommodation
38:39could be made.
38:40But you are right
38:41in terms of
38:41where if that is happening
38:43continuously
38:44because of the impact,
38:46the negative impact,
38:47the demotivation
38:47and probably no compensation
38:49and persons are getting away,
38:51I think that that requires
38:52an immediate
38:54need to look at
38:55the management
38:56and supervision
38:57with reference
38:57to that number two.
38:58This first point
38:59in relation to ID card,
39:00why I'm concerned with me,
39:01if in fact those persons
39:03have graduated
39:05from the police training college
39:06and I am certain
39:07that the commissioner
39:08of police
39:08and the executive
39:09will be listening
39:09and I will use
39:11this opportunity
39:11to respectfully call
39:13on them
39:13to intervene immediately
39:16because one of the
39:17fundamental things
39:18as police officers
39:19and especially
39:20in the climate
39:21that we are living in
39:21is proper identification
39:24and if there is an issue
39:25based on what the caller
39:26is saying,
39:27I'm acting on the information
39:28that he is bringing forward,
39:29that's a very significant matter
39:31and perhaps those officers
39:33that are not in possession
39:34of ID,
39:34I will advise
39:35the senior officers
39:37of the division
39:37or maybe the executive
39:39to be very careful
39:40in how you are allowing them
39:41to continue their activities
39:43because in the constitution,
39:45in the police service act,
39:47one of the fundamental things
39:48in approaching you
39:49is proper identification.
39:52So thank you very much,
39:53caller,
39:53for being so strong
39:54with your submissions
39:55this afternoon.
39:56All right,
39:56we have another caller.
39:57Caller, good evening.
39:59I bet you good evening
40:00to my two favorite presenters.
40:02Good evening to you, sir.
40:04Ms. Ali,
40:05I want you to clear something,
40:06please,
40:07and with the rest.
40:10Is hanging still
40:11on our law books,
40:13that is one,
40:15and the other one,
40:16what is the effect
40:18of Pat and Morgan
40:19on our hanging issues?
40:22I thank you,
40:23our listening office.
40:24All right,
40:24thank you so much.
40:25Beautiful.
40:25Whitney,
40:26you know,
40:26sometimes I wish
40:27I could have an entire program.
40:28So Jack,
40:28if you're listening,
40:29you know,
40:29perhaps,
40:30I can have a full discourse
40:32on this matter,
40:32but just to summarize it quickly.
40:34To answer the first question,
40:36within the law books
40:36of Trinidad and Tobago,
40:37the death penalty exists.
40:39Right.
40:40Secondly,
40:41because there's a
40:42Pratt and Morgan case,
40:43a Privy Council judgment.
40:44Pratt and Morgan,
40:45coming out from Jamaica,
40:46from my recollection,
40:47it went to the Privy Council.
40:48That is our highest apex court.
40:50They basically give
40:51some clear direction
40:52that once a matter,
40:53once a person is convicted,
40:55that,
40:55and you know,
40:56when a person is convicted,
40:57there will be options
40:58for an appeal.
40:59Correct.
40:59Whether in the court of appeal here,
41:01whether to the Privy Council,
41:02and then we have
41:03an additional layer
41:04in terms of going
41:05to the human rights body.
41:06The Privy Council
41:07is saying that
41:08all those steps
41:09must be exhausted
41:11within a five-year period.
41:12Otherwise,
41:13the conviction,
41:14if it goes
41:15and is not exhausted
41:17within five years,
41:18the death penalty
41:19can be viewed
41:19as being inhumane
41:20and degrading
41:21and, you know,
41:22and I can get more
41:23legalistic with it.
41:24So,
41:24so the,
41:25so we,
41:26because during the week
41:27someone called on it.
41:29Yes.
41:29Yeah,
41:30and we mentioned it.
41:31Well,
41:31Whitney,
41:32if the closest person
41:34to me
41:34is educated,
41:35I think I've served
41:36my purpose
41:37and I hope that the caller
41:38is also educated
41:38and to the citizenry.
41:39What we need,
41:40though,
41:40and I want to endorse
41:42some time ago
41:43the former
41:44Attorney General
41:44of Trinidad and Tobago,
41:46Mr. Ramesh Lawrence Maraj.
41:48He advised
41:49the previous government
41:51that in order
41:51to have the full impact
41:53of the death penalty,
41:54what we need to do
41:55is to set up
41:56perhaps a committee
41:57to be able
41:58to manage convictions
41:59of murder
42:00at the first instance
42:01court
42:02to ensure
42:02that we are monitoring
42:04that five-year period
42:05to ensure
42:05that these persons
42:06are in fact
42:07getting the opportunity
42:08swiftly
42:08to exhaust
42:10maybe the Court of Appeal,
42:11the Privy Council,
42:12the Human Rights
42:15Commissions
42:15so that we can
42:16complete those things
42:17within five years
42:18to have access
42:19to the death penalty.
42:20In the absence
42:21of monitoring
42:22the progress,
42:22what we are really doing
42:24is that it's an artificial deco
42:27in our law books
42:28and hence why
42:29the citizenry
42:30and probably rightly so
42:31becomes anxious.
42:32They become disgruntled
42:33and sometimes
42:35because it's...
42:36It's bringing back
42:36when it is there.
42:37That's correct.
42:37Because it's not being enforced.
42:39Correct.
42:40You feel,
42:40well, okay,
42:41we don't have it
42:41but it is there
42:43and I hope that,
42:45Kola,
42:45your submission,
42:47Whitney,
42:48your learning
42:48and your excitement
42:49you are here
42:50how many days a week?
42:52For five days.
42:52If you could take it
42:53for the next two days,
42:54Thursday and Friday
42:56and continue championing it,
42:57perhaps the authorities
42:59may look at it
43:00and put up
43:00an administrative body
43:02or administrative team
43:03to be able to look
43:04at this particular process
43:05but great question.
43:06All right,
43:06we have another caller.
43:07Kola,
43:07good evening.
43:08Good evening to the panel.
43:10Good evening to you, ma'am.
43:11Good evening to you, ma'am.
43:12Yeah.
43:14Officer,
43:16in our business manner,
43:17I'm so happy to see
43:19that he has been found
43:20and he's alive.
43:22I'm truly thankful for that
43:23but a ransom was paid.
43:25Apart from the ransom,
43:26they had taken $4,000
43:28from them.
43:28So I hope officer
43:30that doesn't stay there
43:31if they have to continue
43:33getting,
43:33get these people
43:34and they should be dealt with
43:36because they're not supposed
43:37to do that as you know.
43:39The second point is,
43:40a four-way
43:41in an abandoned building,
43:42I tried to talk about
43:43abandoned buildings
43:44in this place
43:45because all sorts of
43:46wrong things go in.
43:47Abandoned building
43:48of somebody running
43:50from the police
43:51went into this
43:52abandoned building.
43:54Two officers
43:55went behind him
43:56and they,
43:57on the second floor
43:58and they're looking
43:59for him
43:59and he put himself
44:01on the outside
44:03hanging out
44:04for a good while
44:05and they're just,
44:06they're looking
44:06on the inside
44:07and nothing to tell
44:08one of them
44:09but look on the outside
44:09to see where he is
44:10because they couldn't find him.
44:11I mean,
44:11it looks so jokey.
44:12They're looking
44:13for him on the inside
44:14and somebody's
44:14taping that
44:15and my point
44:16is,
44:16you mean to say
44:17nobody could have
44:18called a police
44:19or somebody
44:19and said,
44:20look,
44:20he's on the outside
44:21and he seemed
44:22to be very strong
44:23because he stayed
44:23out there for a good
44:24while.
44:25I don't know
44:25if you all have seen it.
44:26He's holding on there
44:27on the outside
44:28of the building
44:29and the police
44:29on the inside.
44:30I don't know
44:30what to face
44:31here.
44:32Something has
44:33to be done
44:33about that.
44:34The third point
44:35is the police officers.
44:37I'm tired
44:38of hearing
44:38the police officers
44:39that complain
44:40from all times
44:42something about
44:43this,
44:44that,
44:44not only this
44:45time,
44:46previous times
44:47that they need
44:47some help.
44:48Who would really
44:49be able to help
44:50them because
44:50they want fire
44:51to protect themselves.
44:53I don't know
44:54what is the amendment
44:55of the fire
44:56to protect themselves
44:59and they complain
45:00about the health,
45:01they complain
45:02about payment
45:02and all sorts
45:03of things.
45:04So something
45:05really should be done
45:05because I'm tired
45:07of hearing them
45:07about this
45:08and they're always
45:09talking about this.
45:10It's so,
45:11so, so sad.
45:12But thank you
45:13very much
45:14and you all
45:14get home safely.
45:15But I hope
45:15they catch those
45:16people who
45:18abducted the
45:19penal businessmen
45:20and they deal
45:21with them
45:21because they
45:21should not get
45:22away.
45:23Thank you
45:23very, very much.
45:24Thank you,
45:25ma'am.
45:25Sally.
45:26Thank you
45:26very much,
45:26Kola.
45:27Let me take
45:28the first point
45:29that she made
45:29as an academic
45:30point.
45:32Notwithstanding
45:32that the person
45:33has been released,
45:34the investigation
45:36ought to continue
45:37with the hope
45:38and expectation
45:39that there's evidence
45:39to prosecute persons
45:40who may be
45:41responsible for the
45:42kidnapping.
45:42There's also
45:43the extension
45:44of the ransom
45:45based on the
45:45information that
45:46has been provided
45:47by the Kola.
45:47If in fact
45:48a ransom
45:48was paid
45:49based on the
45:50facts of the
45:50matter,
45:52there's kidnapping
45:53and then there's
45:53kidnapping for ransom.
45:54So again,
45:55the investigation
45:55ought to be
45:56conducted
45:57to determine
45:58who may be
45:59the recipient
46:00or enjoying
46:00the benefits
46:01of crime.
46:02Correct.
46:02And while you're
46:03looking at
46:04kidnapping
46:04and kidnapping
46:04for ransom,
46:05some time ago
46:06on this program,
46:07someone made
46:09the suggestion
46:10which I embraced
46:11in terms of
46:11looking at crime
46:12with both lens,
46:13the blue color
46:14aspect and the
46:15white color
46:15aspect.
46:15So this is a
46:16situation where
46:17anybody who benefits
46:18or receives
46:19property,
46:21which they know
46:21is derived from
46:22criminal conduct,
46:23in this case,
46:24kidnapping for ransom,
46:25creates the
46:26offense of
46:26money laundering.
46:28So I want to
46:28say that you
46:29may have
46:29persons who
46:30are doing
46:30the quote
46:31unquote snatching
46:32of the
46:32individual,
46:33the person
46:34who may be
46:34negotiating the
46:35ransom,
46:35but you may
46:36have someone
46:36who is very
46:37clean,
46:38who is enjoying
46:40the...
46:40Profits from
46:41the guilty
46:42money that's
46:43received.
46:44That's correct.
46:44So I think
46:45that I'm happy
46:46that the
46:46caller brought
46:47that.
46:47So it is
46:48very colorful
46:49with reference
46:50to very serious
46:50offenses.
46:51And I don't
46:51know how much
46:52time we have
46:52Whitney,
46:53but I want you
46:53just to remind
46:54me.
46:55I want to
46:55put a little
46:56bit of focus
46:57on a matter
46:58that you
46:59made a reference
47:00to yesterday.
47:00I think you
47:01read from the
47:02newspaper with
47:03Shem Alexander
47:04with reference
47:05to that conspiracy
47:06to traffic firearms
47:07to Trinidad and
47:07Tobago.
47:08I want to make
47:08some statements.
47:09All right,
47:09we will touch on
47:09that.
47:09Let's take a
47:10short break.
47:10We'll be back.
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50:22And welcome back.
50:23It's Legally
50:23Speaking Wednesdays.
50:24We'll be heading back
50:25to the phone line
50:25shortly.
50:26Mr. Ali, now you
50:27spoke of Shemweed,
50:28which is a name that
50:29is circulating because
50:30of the big bus that we
50:32mentioned this weekend.
50:33We showed the arms and
50:34ammunitions that were
50:37also seized.
50:38Now, the Trinidad and
50:40Tobago National pleaded
50:42guilty and was sentenced
50:43to over four years in a
50:44federal prison in the
50:45United States, so his
50:46rule in the multi-year
50:48firearms smuggling
50:49operations.
50:50Now, an x-ray scan and
50:51subsequent inspection
50:52revealed the bags
50:54contained approximately
50:5611 9mm pistols, 2.38
51:00caliber revolvers, also a
51:0312-gauge shotgun, multiple
51:06AR-15 parts and magazines
51:08and hundreds of wrongs of
51:09ammunition.
51:10Now, I know you wanted
51:11to mention this matter
51:13and how it's before the
51:15court and the sentence
51:16around, I mean, for all
51:18of that ammunition.
51:19Well, I could see the
51:20expression on your face
51:21already with the last
51:22question that you asked
51:22and I think it's
51:23important for me to
51:24revisit this.
51:25Without saying or getting
51:27into detail, now there's
51:28a finding, but I think
51:30it's important to make
51:31some points with what
51:31we're coming out of
51:32this.
51:33Let me begin with the
51:35area that you went to.
51:37This is a conspiracy to
51:39traffic firearms to
51:40Trinidad and Tobago.
51:41Correct.
51:42And it's my respectful
51:43view, if it did not
51:44happen, that a victim
51:46impact statement in terms
51:48of, and who are the
51:49victim or victims?
51:49I now spoke about when a
51:51crime is committed, it's
51:52not committed against
51:53Whitney.
51:53It's committed against
51:55Whitney, Jackie, Zaheer
51:57Ali, and every single
51:59citizen in Trinidad and
52:00Tobago.
52:01So the first point I
52:02like to bring across in
52:03terms of these sort of
52:03matters is that while the
52:05person may have been
52:06tried in the United
52:06States of America, these
52:08firearms were, or there
52:09was a conspiracy to
52:10traffic these firearms to
52:11Trinidad and Tobago, and
52:12we have seen the footage
52:13that it was found in
52:14Trinidad and Tobago.
52:15So I'm interested in
52:17what's the impact of nine
52:19rifles, nine pistols,
52:22assortment of ammunition.
52:23Those things are
52:24significant for me in
52:25terms of when we are
52:26looking at what should be
52:28a proportional penalty for
52:30the offense.
52:30So that's the first point
52:31I want to make.
52:31I also understand that if
52:33someone doesn't waste the
52:34court's time, like in this
52:35case, if there was a plea
52:37of guilty, that we have
52:38certain discounted
52:39sentence and so forth.
52:40So I understand that, but
52:41a victim impact statement
52:44should have been factored in
52:46in this matter.
52:47If it did, I'm okay.
52:50Secondly, this is a matter
52:52Whitney, when we speak
52:53about crime and
52:53criminality, these are guns
52:55that came through the
52:56legal ports.
52:57So again, we need to
52:59recognize that it's no
53:01longer coming through an
53:02illegal port.
53:03They are now compromising
53:05our systems.
53:07And this is where law
53:08enforcement, this society
53:09need to wake up because
53:10why we may be looking at a
53:12criminal element in
53:12hardcore?
53:13There are public officials
53:14who may be assisting and
53:16facilitating these
53:16activities.
53:17So that's number two that
53:18I want to bring when we
53:19are dealing with crime.
53:20And I'm saying this
53:21because we are not
53:23only on blue.
53:24We spoke about money
53:25laundering.
53:25We're looking at
53:26corruption, misbehavior in
53:28public office.
53:28These are very, very
53:29serious matters.
53:30The third issue I want to
53:31come out of this, Whitney,
53:32is that in Trinidad and
53:34Tobago, we seem not to be
53:36excited about charging for
53:38conspiracies.
53:39Conspiracies, what they
53:40call in law an incoherent
53:41offense.
53:41So if we are not only
53:44looking for completion of
53:46an offense, then we will
53:48always see ourselves as
53:48what?
53:49Reacting.
53:49Correct.
53:50If we are looking at
53:50conspiracies, we are
53:51looking at preventing the
53:53crime before it happened.
53:53And that is where I think
53:55that we need to go on
53:56their proper systems to be
53:57able to achieve this
53:58objective in terms of
53:59conspiracy.
53:59So the United States, I
54:01salute them by looking at
54:02conspiracy in the way that
54:03they are looking at it.
54:04And the final point is
54:05that we have, Whitney,
54:07and I'm going to speak
54:08intimately here about this
54:09matter.
54:09Right.
54:10And I don't need to say
54:11much, right?
54:12In Trinidad and Tobago,
54:13there are competent people
54:15within the ranks of the
54:16police service.
54:16This matter, for those who
54:18may not have known, if the
54:20detection was made in
54:21Trinidad and Tobago, and I'm
54:22fully aware how that came
54:24about, it means that the
54:25law enforcement bodies in
54:27Trinidad and Tobago started
54:28that process.
54:29Yeah.
54:30And the process, it was
54:31detected, the ammunition
54:33was found, it was seized,
54:34it was processed, and then
54:35there was collaboration
54:36between the United States
54:37to be able to say, okay,
54:38where's the best place to be
54:39able to try these persons
54:40in quick time, and other
54:42related matters would have
54:43been considered.
54:44So I say that to say this,
54:45that there are competent
54:47persons within the Trinidad
54:48and Tobago police service
54:49rank and file, and I think
54:50that we just need to give
54:51them the opportunity to be
54:52able to have more like this
54:54with me, because this is
54:56what they call the typical
54:58transnational organized
54:59crime.
55:00And I just wanted to make
55:01those points on this
55:01matter.
55:02This is in no way targeting
55:06individuals, but looking
55:07at systematic matters,
55:09looking at ways in which,
55:10or things that we need to
55:11look at when we are
55:12critical about strategies
55:14and how we should be
55:15approaching crime,
55:15fighting in Trinidad and
55:16Tobago.
55:16Being proactive with crime.
55:18As you move forward,
55:19we have another caller.
55:19Caller, good evening.
55:20Hi, good evening, guys.
55:22Good evening, Corporal Ali,
55:23and also my husband.
55:24Good evening to you, sir.
55:25During the show.
55:26Yes, good evening.
55:27Hope and all as well.
55:28Corporal Ali, earlier in
55:29your conversation, you
55:31would have spoken about
55:31legislation footage, and
55:34the real reason for
55:35legislation footage, which
55:36is to ensure the safety
55:39and the comfort of all
55:40citizens.
55:42And I would agree that
55:43that is an absolutely
55:45necessary foundation for
55:47other citizens to operate,
55:50to go to school, go to
55:51work, and also have
55:52enjoyment and recreation
55:54all of life.
55:55So, yeah, I just want to
55:57give that support, kindly
55:58keep up the good work, and
55:59we look forward to a
56:01progressive society where
56:03the focus is more about
56:05working, enjoying, and,
56:07you know, just the better
56:08aspect.
56:09So, great work, and thank
56:10you very much.
56:11All right.
56:11Thank you so much,
56:12caller.
56:13That submission I've just
56:14placed in my heart,
56:18Whitney.
56:18And I want to thank you
56:19very much, Kola.
56:20And, you know, Whitney,
56:21it's an example that there
56:22are persons who are
56:23feeling the positive pulse
56:24out there.
56:25And, you know, Kola, I
56:27thank you as well on behalf
56:28of the Trinidad and
56:29Tobago Police Service, on
56:30behalf of the Ministry of
56:30Homeland, on behalf of
56:31Whitney, on behalf of
56:33Jackie, this particular
56:34organization, and the
56:35citizenry that, you know,
56:36you can find it within
56:37yourself that when there's
56:39good, we speak about good.
56:40Yes.
56:40When there's things to
56:41deal with and correctly
56:42deal with it.
56:43And that's how we should
56:43be as a society.
56:45Frank, open, but geared
56:46towards the best interests
56:47of all of us.
56:49All right.
56:49Quickly, we have a final
56:50call.
56:50Caller.
56:51Yes, good evening to the
56:53panel.
56:54Sometimes I go, I call, and
56:57you would get back to me
56:58with some information with
57:00respect to PCP TV, right?
57:04When you capture crime from
57:07your homes, right?
57:08I was asking if police
57:11would have to appear in
57:12court to give evidence in
57:15respect to that footage,
57:17should it be used by the
57:18police?
57:19All right.
57:20I think we just addressed
57:24that in three contexts where
57:26we looked at it from a
57:27consent point context where
57:28you are volunteering, so
57:29you are giving a statement.
57:30If you don't, we could use
57:31a search warrant, but
57:33someone with the technical
57:34capacity to be able to give
57:36the specifics of that CCTV
57:38in terms of how it rotates,
57:39what timing, and that sort
57:41of thing.
57:41And I indicated to you that
57:42there's also an area where
57:45under the evidence act, there
57:46may be very compelling
57:47reasons why a person don't
57:48want to give a statement.
57:49Maybe fear and maybe other
57:50issues where there are an
57:51application that could be
57:52made.
57:53So thanks for raising it, but
57:54perhaps I'll probably deal
57:55with it in more detail on
57:56another occasion as well.
57:57Next week, Wednesday, of
57:58course, we have Mr. Ali
57:59will be joining us.
58:00We'd like to thank you so
58:00much for being here with us.
58:01We get ready for news coming
58:03up next TNT.
58:03We'll be back same time, same
58:04place tomorrow.
58:06God bless and be safe.
58:07We're out.
58:35We'll see you next time.
58:37We'll see you then.
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