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02:51Welcome to Beyond the Tape, I'm your host Mark Bussan.
03:04Of course, today is, legally speaking, Wednesdays, we are in the middle of the week, and we do
03:09have a lot to discuss on today's program.
03:13Of course, there was the sad news of a 16 year old girl losing her life yesterday morning
03:20in Wallerfield.
03:21Police are still not suiting about how she was shot, but she died a short while later
03:29at the Arima Health Facility.
03:32So clearly that's something that we're going to be just kind of talking about, as well
03:35as just a couple hours ago, there was the funeral for Enrique Guerra and his five year
03:43old daughter, Anika.
03:46They were shot and killed approximately a week and a day ago at his mini-mart in Pui
03:53Junction in Moruga, and his mother had quite a lot to say, as well as there were a number
04:00of other people there at the funeral that really poured their heart out.
04:06And I remember just briefly looking at it online, a gentleman speaking about the fact
04:12that the country, and by extension, we have lost our way, and there's this soulless kind
04:21of feeling.
04:22And we had the aunt of Mr. Guerra reaching out to the Trinidad Express yesterday, and
04:30in today's front page story, she's saying, protect our people.
04:36The aunt there, her name was Samday Beachon Johnson, speaking that they are afraid to
04:43return to Trinidad and Tobago, and it's something that I guess is shared with the perception
04:48that the murder rate is really astounding and very worrying, of course.
04:56And I want to welcome, at Inyat Law, our legal mind today, Sergeant Zahir Ali, Sergeant Ali,
05:03I mean, sorry, Corporal, I mean, this is a really sad thing that we have so many people
05:09in the diaspora abroad that, you know, look forward to coming home for various and various
05:16times of the year, not just carnival, but also coming at times to see family, or to
05:20celebrate a birthday, or even a wedding of some sort.
05:24And we have this woman pouring her heart out, actually writing a letter to the Prime Minister,
05:30saying what needs to be done to stymie this bloodletting in Trinidad and Tobago.
05:35Well, Mark, a pleasant good evening to you, and good evening to Jackie and family in Biondi
05:40Thiep, and, you know, beloved citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, and even persons who
05:43may be visiting on our shows.
05:47You have tabled some very sensitive matters this afternoon, and, you know, just quickly
05:53looking at our particular headlines on the Expresses that you just read, I will commit
06:00in the context where the citizens of this country, or persons who may have migrated
06:06and enjoying a life somewhere else, they have taken the opportunity to engage the highest
06:10officers in relation to what's happening in Trinidad and Tobago.
06:13And I want to urge Trinidad and Tobago to continue to do your part, whether it be speaking
06:20up, writing, you know, just from a philosophical, spiritual context.
06:29They say when there is injustice, and in this case when we are seeing the mayhem that
06:33we are seeing in terms of crimes and criminality and serious acts of violence, there are three
06:39things basically.
06:41If you can fix it with your hand, fix it with your hand.
06:45If you cannot fix it with your hand, speak up on it.
06:48Speak about it.
06:49And this is where Ms. Bechang basically took the opportunity to reduce her comments in
06:54writing to the Honorable Prime Minister.
06:56And last but not least, if you cannot fix it with your hand and you cannot speak up
06:59on it, then hate it in your heart.
07:03So I think it's important for us to exercise that, or those options that we have, because
07:08we live here together.
07:09And permit me, Mark, I think it's very timely, the way you have opened the show this afternoon.
07:14And I want to read, because it's the supreme law of the land I'm going to read here, conjuncted
07:18with what's happening.
07:19And I want to remind Trinidad and Tobago, every single one of us, and particularly institutions
07:25of the state, that continues to enjoy the authority under the Constitution, and knowing
07:29that we have independence 48 hours away.
07:33I think that when we look at independence, do we truly understand the authority to govern
07:38ourselves in terms of looking at peace, order, and good governance?
07:40And you know, sometimes we miss independence.
07:44It goes hand in hand with the Constitution, the supreme law of the land.
07:47And I just want to remind all of us, this is all the preamble to this Constitution.
07:51This is what it states.
07:53Whereas the people of Trinidad and Tobago have affirmed that the nation of Trinidad
07:56and Tobago is founded upon principles that acknowledge, one, the dignity of the human
08:02person.
08:03Why am I saying that, Mark?
08:04When we're speaking about the dignity of the human person, it means, therefore, that right
08:07to life, that right to enjoyment of one's property, we are seeing what we call home
08:12invasions, break-in, burglaries.
08:14So the dignity of the human person is extremely important.
08:16Number two, there should be opportunity for the advancement on the basis of recognition
08:21on merit, ability, and integrity.
08:24This is for the institutions of the state.
08:26This is for the decision-makers to understand that if we want to enjoy maximum benefit of
08:32that, when we speak about independence and successful nations, I think that we need to
08:37have a look at merit, ability, and integrity in every aspect of our governance, you know,
08:41and in terms of every decision that we have to make.
08:44And finally, men and institutions remain free only when freedom is founded upon principles
08:50for moral and spiritual values, and most importantly here, the rule of law.
08:55So I thought it was important just to remind all of us, this is, I'm reading from the preamble
08:59to our constitution, Mark.
09:01This can easily be factored into everything that we are experiencing, all the concern
09:05that we are having in many different sphere.
09:07So just to repeat, the dignity of the human being, let's respect that.
09:12The advancement, and we are speaking about the institution of the state, ability, merit,
09:17integrity, and last but not least, that rule of law, that we can only say that men and
09:22institutions remain free only when we have respect for moral, spiritual, and the rule
09:27of law.
09:28And I may add a little bit of ethics in as well.
09:29So I just wanted to remind you that Alan Tobago in advance of independence, that we let that
09:33soak in.
09:34Let us do some reflection and see whether in fact, when we say, where are the people,
09:38whether we really understood what we are holding firm to.
09:42I mean, as you said, self-preservation is extremely important in life.
09:48And it's something to contemplate on and to partner on because how many people in Trinidad
09:53and Tobago, of course, can interlock those ideas or that ideology and really say to themselves
10:01that this is what they would like.
10:05This is what they would want to perceive and I guess kind of radiate outward.
10:11And we might have one more so than the other, but there must be a balance, of course, based
10:17on what you would have articulated here this afternoon.
10:21I mean, it's really sad that we have to come and speak about a young person losing their
10:28lives to gun violence or kids even or babies who probably in that entire situation are
10:38not uncorrupted, what's really happening.
10:40And in the blink of an eye, their lives or life is snuffed out.
10:45Yes.
10:46And, you know, just to add to that, Mark, where we are speaking about children, this
10:50is only not for money from a domestic situation.
10:53If we look at the international laws, we are speaking about the International Convention
10:56on the Rights of the Child.
10:57One of the rights of the child is also that right to life, that right to live, that right
11:02to develop, that right to education.
11:04So we have to be very, very sensitive to understand that when we are seeing our children
11:10that have been impacted by criminal activities, you know, we need to, as a society, we need
11:14to take a look.
11:15We need to take a look and see whether, in fact, we are really acting in the best interest
11:19of the child because we are seeing what's happening to our children.
11:22And then you are seeing that some months ago, you were seeing where brazen shootings within
11:27the vicinity of educational institutions.
11:30So that right to education that children are entitled to, that is also, whether directly
11:34or indirectly, affected by what we are seeing in terms of Trinidad and Tobago.
11:38So I thought it was important, where we are hours away, and, you know, this independence,
11:43we have fought for this, Mark.
11:45If you look at the history, you look into history, you will see what our forefathers,
11:48what the persons before us, the sacrifices that they made, and now that we have that
11:53level of independence, the question that we need to ask ourselves as a nation, are we
11:57truly enjoying the full benefit of what independence truly reflects?
12:03And the first group that has to answer that is the biggest institution, which is what?
12:09The citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
12:10Because before you could sit in an institution of the state, you are a citizen.
12:14You are a citizen.
12:15You represent a very sacred right as well, that right of the press to ensure that democracy
12:20is upheld.
12:21And when you speak about, this is you here with the rule of law.
12:26One of that speaks or can be extended to that section for rights that we enjoy.
12:31So, you know, I thought it was important, Mark, for us to signal our intention clearly
12:35this afternoon.
12:36And I hope that Trinidad and Tobago really take the time to appreciate where we are,
12:41where we should be, and what really our constitution, our supreme law is asking us to do.
12:46Thanks for that, you know, very deep insight into that perspective.
12:51And I think we need to go to our headlines now, but we will talk about this much more
12:56when we get back.
14:21We will be back right after this break.
14:24Stay with us.
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17:05Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
17:11Of course, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays, and we want to encourage callers.
17:15Don't forget to call us at 623-1711.
17:18Extensions 1992, 1993, and 1997.
17:25So corporally, just a couple hours ago, Enrique Guerra and his five-year-old daughter, Anika
17:34Oleta Rest, looking at the screen, we're seeing some images here of a motorbike procession
17:44as it goes through the streets of St. Mary's Village.
17:48I understand that the funeral is well attended.
17:51There were a couple hundred people there at the funeral, people very passionate about
17:59voicing their opinions about what has happened, remembering this son and, of course, his daughter,
18:10a granddaughter of Mrs. Guerra, who spoke at the funeral, a very passionate woman, and
18:20people were talking about, there were other people that spoke, there were a number of
18:23people that spoke, and as I said, what resonated to me in the little that I heard was this
18:29thing that we have lost ourselves, that we have become soulless.
18:35Well, Mark, just to respond, I mean, again, condolences to the family and, you know, while
18:42one may want to say that, okay, from a spiritual context, from a religious context, maybe this
18:46is the first stage of closure from a, you know, in treatment or treating with the deceased
18:51persons, we know that it's going to live for a very long time and, you know, just listen
18:55to the comments of the family in terms of they are seeking justice and they're looking
19:00for swift justice.
19:02I want to just reflect on something.
19:04You just made mention, and quite rightly, in terms of seeing, you used the word, if
19:08I recall correctly, a large turnout.
19:13Mark, when we're speaking about crime and criminality, you normally hear when we're
19:17referring to cases R versus this and R versus that in terms of the case, and one of the
19:21reasons for that is that crime, while it may be perpetrated against an individual, crime
19:26really is considered against the community, and what we've seen here in terms of the
19:30response from the community, it is indicative, it is evidence that crime is, has that level
19:39of impact, not only on an individual or a particular home, but a community.
19:44I should say, I'll go far to say that we have seen a societal response to this shooting
19:48as well.
19:49So, again, Trinidad and Tobago, when we look at the situation, this could have been us.
19:57This could have been our family, and I want to, again, because we are in an independence
20:01week, I want us to start thinking not selfish.
20:06Let us not be thinking selfish, where we believe that, okay, I am secure, you are secure, so
20:12we do not need to pay attention to what's happening around us.
20:15When you see a society that's experiencing this high level of violence, I've said it
20:20on the last occasion, you do not know where gangs will have their conflict, number one.
20:26You do not know who may be targeting you for benefits.
20:30You do not know who may want to instill that level of fear in a particular community.
20:35So, no one is spared, and we must understand that as a society, that the majority, just
20:40as the majority takes command of a country, the majority must take command of the right
20:47to safety and security of all our citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
20:51So, again, I didn't want to use the opportunity in terms of looking at that funeral, but I
20:58think it was important for us to use it as an opportunity to remind us that crime do
21:03not affect an individual, but it affects a community.
21:05And quite rightly, that analogy of colonialism, right, and that could also be used in the
21:13context of crime, where in Ernest Hemingway's Old Man and His Sea, that albatross that hung
21:20around his neck, which is hanging on us.
21:23We're trying to get rid of that albatross of crime, and of course, we had discussions
21:28just recently about colonialism and ridding ourselves of the ships, the Columbus, the
21:35ships that came here were allegedly discovered, this region and so on, and that albatross
21:42keeps weighing down your neck, you know, it's pulling down, and that is the same kind of
21:47feeling people are feeling when it comes to crime in this country.
21:52It's like, I can't go anywhere without feeling some kind of heavy feeling.
21:58And again, Mark, you are actually speaking on behalf of the public's interests here,
22:02and rightly so, where you sit, and if we look at that right to life, that right to life
22:12is very, very sacred, and if we see that right to life, or right to safety and security
22:17is threatened, what sort of response would you want to see from the citizens of Trinidad
22:22and Tobago, and more so, from the persons who are sitting in very important decision-making
22:27positions?
22:28So again, to go back to this headline, where Ms. Bey-Chan, yes, directly or closely associated
22:35with what transpired, but used the opportunity to engage the Honourable Prime Minister.
22:40So, as a nation, we cannot sit back.
22:43Yes, you know, we are seeing that it continues to be a great challenge, but we have to win
22:49this.
22:50And how do we win it?
22:51We need to stand up, and we need to stand up firm, and say that not only that enough
22:55is enough, we need to manifest our enough is enough into lawful actions to be able to
23:02treat with this particular situation.
23:04One case in point, and I'm going to speak for my TTPS directly now, that if as a society
23:09that we are serious that enough is enough and a right to life is important, then every
23:15individual who is aware of acts of criminality and has or have the information in their bosom,
23:20Mark, they should be using the proper conduit to bring that information to be able to detect
23:26and solve crime.
23:27And case in point, this particular murder that we are seeing, this double murder with
23:32the father and the daughter.
23:34So, if we are serious, let us manifest it into actions.
23:38And again, Mark, I want to use this opportunity to call on you and the media fraternity in
23:42Trinidad and Tobago to ensure that you will continue to support us, continue to put pressure
23:48so that we continue to enjoy and respect that Section 4 rights that we have as citizens
23:53of Trinidad and Tobago, and to ensure that there is full accountability and transparency.
23:57Sir, there's a lot we could talk about on this subject matter, but guess what?
24:02We're going to take a break and we'll be back.
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26:44Welcome back. It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays here on Beyond the Tape.
26:58Of course, we want to encourage our callers and viewers, that is, to call in at 623-1711,
27:05extensions 1992, 1993, and 1997.
27:10I'm sure Corporal Aliyah will be at your disposal to answer any question or questions that you may have.
27:17But in the meantime, of course, we just want to touch on that sad event involving the 16-year-old girl, Aliyah Santo,
27:25who apparently, it seems, was shot in very suspicious circumstances yesterday morning,
27:31hanging out with two friends in a room just at the back of her house in another structure,
27:37and claims that somebody came in, they heard the noise, she went out toward the front door,
27:44somebody shot her in her chest and ran off.
27:47Then there is another story that police are also looking into, of course,
27:54where it's alleged that there were other individuals in the room with her,
28:00and supposedly the firearm went off.
28:04Well, Mark, you have dissected this beautifully with reference to, if I should indicate,
28:10different perspectives being offered.
28:13What I will say is that it is subject to ongoing investigation,
28:17and hopefully through diligent inquiry it will be able to actually identify clearly with expert evidence,
28:24and otherwise to be able to determine exactly the cause of death.
28:27But what I want to say in this situation, and I want to remind every citizen of Trinidad and Tobago,
28:33that when there is a criminal investigation that is unfolding, and I'm not saying that is in this case,
28:38but because for public information and knowledge,
28:41that there is an offense of trying to pervert the course of an investigation,
28:45or obstruct the administration of justice.
28:48So I thought it was important to, early o'clock, where there is criminality or criminal investigation,
28:56if persons are finding themselves providing information or statements that is not, quote-unquote,
29:03in line with what transpired, they can be called in to answer other questions
29:09with either attempting to pervert the course of justice, perverting the course of justice,
29:13or obstructing the administration of justice.
29:15So I thought it was important for us to understand how sensitive, when we're speaking about criminal investigation.
29:22And just so that we know in a very general context, you know, there is always that issue of,
29:28if people are allegedly playing with an illegal firearm and it goes off,
29:35of course there is not an intent, or intentionally to wound somebody or even kill them,
29:41and someone says, what's the legal ramifications in terms of that, and how is it perceived,
29:46and what does, well, if it's established that it was accidental, what kind of charges are preferred against the individual?
29:53Well, Mark, under the Children's Act, because we've seen that there's a 16-year-old from the reporting,
29:58if in fact that's correct, after the birth certificate and everything is sourced,
30:04you are taking us immediately to the Children's Act.
30:07The Children's Act speaks squarely, or firmly I should say, with reference to where children are exposed to firearms,
30:13and in cases where even persons who that firearm may belong to,
30:17where a child or whoever may get possession of that firearm and inflict grievous bodily harm,
30:23and in this case death, under the Children's Act there are particular offenses that one can trigger in this particular status quo here.
30:29So it is very wide, very early.
30:34Only the line of inquiry and the evidence that is coming will be able to determine exactly
30:38whether you're taking you into a statutory context or whether you're going to take you into a common law context in terms of the offenses,
30:43because sometimes you could even see manslaughter charges if there was no intention to kill or intention to cause grievous bodily harm.
30:50You may see a level of recklessness, but where the 16-year-old is concerned,
30:53that also takes us into the Children's Act where children being exposed to a firearm,
30:57or firearm being placed in a status quo that a child or other persons can get possession of it and inflict harm on other persons.
31:05Thanks a lot.
31:06Now we want to extract your expertise here with the upcoming clip here involving police officers and an arrest of a gentleman.
31:15Of course, we'll play the video to of course not identify the police officers or the gentleman.
31:23So let's just take a look.
31:26I have nothing to say.
31:27Watch them police.
31:29Right you, there is a lot of men to do, oppress people.
31:31Right you, there is a lot of men to do, oppress people.
31:34Watch them.
31:35We are arresting the man.
31:36Stop it.
31:37Watch them.
31:38I arrest you.
31:41I arrest you.
31:42You're resisting arrest.
31:45We are arresting the man for.
31:47Right you.
31:48We are arresting the man for.
31:49Right you.
31:50I have nothing.
31:51We are arresting the man for.
31:52You know that I have nothing.
31:53I have nothing.
31:54I have nothing.
31:55I have nothing.
31:56I have nothing.
31:57I have nothing.
31:58I have nothing.
31:59I have nothing.
32:00I have nothing.
32:01I have nothing.
32:02I have nothing.
32:03I have nothing.
32:04I have nothing.
32:05I have nothing.
32:06I have nothing.
32:07I have nothing.
32:08I have nothing.
32:09I have nothing.
32:10I have nothing.
32:11I have nothing.
32:12I have nothing.
32:13I have nothing.
32:14I have nothing.
32:15I have nothing.
32:16I have nothing.
32:17I have nothing.
32:18I have nothing.
32:19I have nothing.
32:20I have nothing.
32:21I have nothing.
32:22I have nothing.
32:23I have nothing.
32:24I have nothing.
32:25I have nothing.
32:26I have nothing.
32:27I have nothing.
32:28I have nothing.
32:29I have nothing.
32:30I have nothing.
32:31I have nothing.
32:32I have nothing.
32:33I have nothing.
32:34I have nothing.
32:35I have nothing.
32:36I have nothing.
32:37I have nothing.
32:38I have nothing.
32:39I have nothing.
32:40I have nothing.
32:41I have nothing.
32:42I have nothing.
32:43I have nothing.
32:44I have nothing.
32:45I have nothing.
32:46I have nothing.
32:47I have nothing.
32:48I have nothing.
32:49I have nothing.
32:50I have nothing.
32:51I have nothing.
32:52I have nothing.
32:53I have nothing.
32:54I have nothing.
32:55I have nothing.
32:56I have nothing.
32:57I have nothing.
32:58I have nothing.
32:59I have nothing.
33:00I have nothing.
33:01I have nothing.
33:02I have nothing.
33:03I have nothing.
33:04I have nothing.
33:05I have nothing.
33:06I have nothing.
33:07I have nothing.
33:08I have nothing.
33:09I have nothing.
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33:12I have nothing.
33:13I have nothing.
33:14I have nothing.
33:15I have nothing.
33:16I have nothing.
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33:19I have nothing.
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33:22I have nothing.
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33:34I have nothing.
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33:40I have nothing.
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33:46I have nothing.
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33:49I have nothing.
33:50I have nothing.
33:51I have nothing.
33:52I have nothing.
33:53I have nothing.
33:54I have nothing.
33:55I have nothing.
33:56I have nothing.
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33:58I have nothing.
33:59I have nothing.
34:00I have nothing.
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34:18I have nothing.
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35:00I have nothing.
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36:00I have nothing.
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36:50I have nothing.
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36:55I have nothing.
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37:00I have nothing.
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37:10I have nothing.
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37:14I have nothing.
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38:09I have nothing.
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38:33I have nothing.
38:34I have nothing.
38:35I have nothing.
38:36I have nothing.
38:37I have nothing.
38:38I have nothing.
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40:26Welcome back to Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Marc Besson.
40:29Of course, I want to encourage you guys to call at 623-1711 Extensions 1992, 1993, and 1997.
40:37Corporal Ali is willing to take all the questions.
40:40And you answered as well, Marc. I'm willing to take all, but I may seek your assistance to answer some.
40:45Well, actually, we have a caller online. Caller, good afternoon.
40:49Yes, I know. Sorry. Good afternoon. Are you hearing me?
40:53Yes, we are. Go ahead.
40:56Good evening, ma'am.
41:24Who is responsible for the laws and what can be done to deal with these people who are, you know, that's one point.
41:32The second point I'm going to make is why these persons are continuing being scammed.
41:37Scammed with false things that are getting on Facebook.
41:41How many times do you speak about that on this program and other programs?
41:45All the best to all of you and be safe, everyone, including Ms. Jackie.
41:51Well, Marc, just to respond quickly to the caller.
41:53Caller, thank you, as always, for your piercing questions.
41:56Marc, that issue that we refer as home invasions, which is really offenses of housebreaking, burglary, and robbery,
42:05and, you know, maybe if there's issues of sexual assault while the events are unfolding.
42:12I want to use this opportunity again to make a strong call to the parliamentarians.
42:17If we are seeing the prevalence of a crime in terms of this quote-unquote home invasion,
42:22if you look at the law books right now in terms of the penalties for breaking, a housebreaking, a burglary, a robbery,
42:29you will see that if we are saying 12, 15 years, Marc, we are speaking a lot.
42:35We need to answer back using the rule of law, to answer back as a starting point,
42:41that persons should be contemplating that if two or more persons or even one person enter the castle of a family,
42:51they should be thinking extensive penalty.
42:54It should be like a, and quote-unquote, it should be in the capacity of 30 years plus,
43:00so that immediately you should be thinking that if I'm caught, if I'm prosecuted and convicted,
43:06maybe half my life will disappear.
43:09So I think that I want to use this opportunity to start with strong deterrent and let's look just up the islands, Marc.
43:16You've seen, I think if I recall correctly, in Grenada, they handed down some sanctions for firearm-related offences.
43:23Very, very, very, very serious.
43:26So I'm saying as a society, let us use the authority that we have under the constitution and our law-making powers.
43:35Peace, order, and good governance.
43:38Let us manifest ourselves in those areas.
43:40All right, we have another call. Caller, good afternoon.
43:43Good afternoon, Mr. Bassan and Corporal Ali.
43:47Corporal Ali, I acknowledge your preamble to our constitution,
43:53but what we are reaping now was a decision made on moral and spiritual values.
44:01The cumulative effect of that decision is what we're reaping now.
44:05The other issue is that we have to be honest and we have to have honest people with integrity in institutions,
44:14and I'm going directly to the TPPF.
44:17A lot of people have little or no confidence.
44:21I still have some residual confidence in the TPPF.
44:26Now, there are some metrics that the Commissioner of Police basically says she's going to achieve.
44:34As of now, she is a failure.
44:37She basically says she's going to reduce it by 5%.
44:42Now it's going to be 10% or it needs to be about 640 by my rough arithmetic.
44:50The fact that she gave that metric, I am saying if the leadership of the TPPF is honest and has integrity,
45:00they would have been part of identifying and giving that metric.
45:05If that metric is not realized, this is where I'm going.
45:11Will the leadership of the police with integrity and honesty leave office for another set of people to take it over?
45:20That is what I'm saying.
45:21You all and the TPPF have to lead by example.
45:25Honesty, integrity, leadership is needed in the TPPF.
45:29Not only in the TPPF, in a lot of areas, including the head of the state now.
45:36All right, Kola.
45:37I didn't want to be in your shoes because you're going to have to answer that.
45:40Well, I'll respond to him immediately.
45:42Mark, as I said, we're speaking law and there's a freedom of expression.
45:48Of course.
45:49If a citizen is taking the opportunity to express himself in the greater public's interest,
45:55I think that we have to receive him as well because he lives here.
45:57He's seen things and we need to pay attention and listen to these individuals.
46:02I want to respect his position.
46:05As a society, we need to respect each other.
46:07Just reflecting again, we see the word tolerance, discipline, and production.
46:11Let us extend it to what's happening.
46:14If we are not tolerant with each other, every little issue, you're going to end up in a conflict.
46:18Let us sit down and be mature in how we respond, how we listen to individuals.
46:23If, in fact, they are making sense, persons who have to make decisions or who have to respond to them
46:28should be responding to them appropriately.
46:30That's how I'll respond to the caller.
46:31Caller, thank you very much for being frank, respectful, and open.
46:37Most definitely.
46:38As you said, everybody's entitled to their opinion, of course.
46:42Some people feel more strongly than others when it comes to the actual leadership of the police service
46:49and how it's being led.
46:52Of course, everybody has their own opinion.
46:54I'll leave that as it is.
46:57We're going to take a short break.
46:58When we come back, we'll have more.
47:00Stay with us.
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49:11Welcome back to Beyond the Chip.
49:12I'm your host, Marc Bessard.
49:13Of course, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays, and I'm accompanied by Corporal Ali.
49:18Corporal Ali, I remember the first call-up, just briefly, was talking about these scams,
49:23and I remember before the show, we were actually talking about the countless times
49:27you've had to tell people about people on Facebook selling something,
49:32and come and meet me, X, please, or you're going to buy something.
49:37Come and meet me on Y, please, and we see that happen just recently again.
49:41Somebody left their home, went to a location.
49:44I mean, there must be certain things that people need to double and triple-check
49:49before they go to sell or buy something.
49:52Well, Marc, I like what you say about double and triple-check,
49:54and I will use double and triple-check to simply say,
49:57you as the potential purchaser or who is looking for an opportunity to contract
50:07must be exercising the level of due diligence,
50:11and the level of due diligence must also be exercised,
50:15considering the present status quo.
50:18So I cannot see how members of the public, and respectfully,
50:21I'm without prejudice to them,
50:23seen numerous reports where persons are basically induced,
50:28lured to be robbed and continue to blindly engage in transactions
50:35and getting themselves into difficulty.
50:38So due diligence and due diligence with what is the present status quo.
50:43So if you're seeing, and Marc, I may have to make this point as well,
50:48that some of the subject matter of this contract,
50:51let's say if it's a vehicle, maybe an electronic equipment and so forth,
50:56we also have to be vigilant to see whether, in fact,
51:00the value that has been associated with these items,
51:04whether, in fact, it is reasonable or whether it is a clear red flag
51:08that this couldn't be the price for this particular subject matter.
51:11Yeah, definitely. Well, we have a caller, so we'll take that call.
51:13Caller, good afternoon.
51:15Good afternoon. Mr. Ali?
51:17Good afternoon, sir.
51:18Good afternoon.
51:19Is there a law against people stealing office files
51:23and giving it to journalists for publication? Thank you.
51:29Caller, what I can tell you is that if we are speaking from a Trinidad
51:32and Tobago police service context and we are speaking about a file
51:35and a file that may be engaged in an investigation
51:38and there may be evidence in that file,
51:40what I'll say immediately is that under the police service regulations,
51:43that matters that come into a police officer's possession officially
51:47and that is disclosed without the necessary authority,
51:49that police officer could be called upon to answer very serious questions.
51:53And I make mention of an offense of obstructing and perverting,
51:58but I'll also add something additional here,
52:00that that can also amount to tipping off,
52:02that if you are disclosing official information,
52:05you can be called upon to answer very serious questions,
52:09whether from a criminal context or from a disciplinary context.
52:12But back to the issue, Mark, in terms of the online shopping
52:15and persons are getting into difficulty,
52:17due diligence and due diligence in the present status quo
52:21and also looking at the subject matter
52:23and see whether a price that is called for subject matter
52:26that may be attracting you,
52:28whether in fact that should be a red flag immediately
52:31or even, and I don't need to be,
52:33I don't want to be prejudicial to any location,
52:35but you are seeing particular areas,
52:38how in God's name you are seeing the statistics
52:42showing you that particular area is heightened with criminal activities,
52:45but you are still looking to engage a transaction in that particular area.
52:49I don't know, I guess people would into some kind of a sense of that,
52:56this is a good buy or is a good sell and I need the money
53:01or I need to buy that item because I'm getting it cheaper.
53:06So that allure, of course, is also one of those things
53:10that when we look at, it all depends on the individual, of course,
53:16because we know that everybody is not the same,
53:18but we want to encourage, we want to implore persons
53:22to please double and triple check things online.
53:27See, are these people really the people that they say that they are?
53:32Because a lot of people are posed as people
53:35and they say they are X, Y and Z and they are not.
53:37I mean, you look at the show Catfish and so on,
53:42just as a general example and you see that.
53:46So we have to be more cognizant as citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
53:51and how we transact business online.
53:54We know that's the forum now where a lot of people are going,
54:00pushing their business online, wanting to buy items,
54:04wanting to sell items.
54:05So you have to be mindful of that.
54:07So I just want people to be mindful of that.
54:10And I did not forget that lady, James, who watches regularly.
54:16Ms. Rahman, we want to thank you for looking at Beyond the Tape
54:19and, of course, all the other viewers.
54:21Remember, Beyond the Tape reruns tonight at 11.45pm.
54:29No show tomorrow, but we're back on Friday.
54:32So until then, remember, the TV6 News is up next
54:36and we thank you for your time.
54:38Thank you. Happy Independence.
54:49♪♪♪
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