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  • 3 years ago
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00:00:00 [Music]
00:00:17 [Silence]
00:00:27 [Music]
00:00:57 Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
00:01:00 [Music]
00:01:04 Excuse me, excuse me!
00:01:06 [Music]
00:01:09 Excuse me sir!
00:01:10 You dropped this!
00:01:11 Vialscraft food supplements for vitality and well-being.
00:01:15 You know Richard!
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00:01:29 Brushed with butter and garlic flavors and sprinkled with parmesan cheese.
00:01:33 It's simply irresistible.
00:01:34 Only at Little Caesar's.
00:01:35 Pizza, pizza.
00:01:36 Guinness presents Great Fat Weekend.
00:01:38 July 26th.
00:01:39 Welcome Wednesday.
00:01:40 July 27th.
00:01:41 Reggae Thursday.
00:01:42 July 28th.
00:01:43 Soca Globes.
00:01:44 July 29th.
00:01:45 Weave that.
00:01:46 July 30th.
00:01:47 Sunday Kala Lume.
00:01:48 July 31st.
00:01:49 Cool Down.
00:01:50 The Guinness Great Fat Weekend.
00:01:53 But there are difficult decisions to make.
00:01:57 If we don't make those decisions,
00:01:59 we are going to end up with somebody else making them for us.
00:02:03 So you have big plans for the year, eh?
00:02:11 A trip in July, birthday in November, and fet after fet this carnival.
00:02:17 But you know what the stop plans?
00:02:20 A $22,500 fine.
00:02:24 You know what else could really stop your plans?
00:02:28 Five years imprisonment and suspension on your license for three years.
00:02:33 Don't drink and drive.
00:02:37 [Glass shatters]
00:02:39 [Phone rings]
00:02:47 Hi.
00:02:55 And a very special good afternoon Trinidad and Tobago.
00:02:57 I'm Marlon Hopkinson.
00:02:58 As always, welcome to another program of Beyond the Tape on TV6.
00:03:02 Senior Superintendent Roger D. Alexander is here in his camo.
00:03:05 I hope that's legal.
00:03:07 Yes, so we have a very serious situation on Wrightson Road right now, eh?
00:03:11 Yeah.
00:03:12 In that one lane of the highway, I suspect it is the westbound lane.
00:03:18 A chunk of the Wrightson Road.
00:03:23 Is it oil spill?
00:03:25 It's covered, yeah, in oil.
00:03:27 I hope I have the lane right, eh?
00:03:29 Do I have the lane right?
00:03:31 It's the eastbound lane.
00:03:34 Is it eastbound lane?
00:03:35 Yeah, I think it's the eastbound lane.
00:03:37 Alright, well one of the lanes, right?
00:03:39 And they have had to turn one of the lanes on Wrightson Road into two.
00:03:45 Yeah?
00:03:46 I hope you have it right, eh?
00:03:48 You don't seem to know the lanes.
00:03:50 I'll check the video, but it's one of the lanes, yeah?
00:03:55 TDPS page has something, so we'll look for that
00:04:01 because that's very important information for you.
00:04:04 But Officer Zahir Ali is here with us this afternoon,
00:04:10 as he is here every Wednesday.
00:04:11 Officer, a special good afternoon to you.
00:04:14 Good afternoon to you, Mala, good afternoon, Senior Sup, good afternoon to our family.
00:04:19 Good evening to the citizens of Chattanooga.
00:04:27 Again, it's indeed a pleasure and privilege to be here,
00:04:31 to join you all again this afternoon, Mala and Senior Superintendent,
00:04:34 to continue to do the justice to this particular program.
00:04:39 Just to reflect, just over the weekend, I was in another interview on the radio station.
00:04:45 Your sister's station, Mr. Hopkinson?
00:04:50 Alright.
00:04:51 Very good, yeah.
00:04:52 He was 95, innit?
00:04:53 95.5.
00:04:54 Yeah, he was 95.
00:04:55 Yeah, and I must take this opportunity on television to acknowledge all the callers
00:05:00 and all the persons who contributed to that particular program.
00:05:03 We dealt specifically with the issue of dangerous drugs and the amendments,
00:05:08 and it was a very healthy discussion, a discussion that we had to a certain extent on this program as well.
00:05:13 So I want to say to those callers and their contributions,
00:05:16 thank you very much in the best interest of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:05:19 This afternoon, Mala--
00:05:20 Officer, before you move on,
00:05:22 let me just give some information on rights and road, as announced by the TDPS.
00:05:27 So the public is advised that there has been an oil spill on the eastbound lane of rights and road
00:05:32 in the vicinity of Anna Street, Woodbrook.
00:05:35 The police service and fire are on the scene.
00:05:37 Commuters are advised to seek alternative routes.
00:05:40 Persons heading east may avoid rights and road by turning left onto Hamilton Holder Street
00:05:46 or Petra Street, then proceeding onto Aria Peter Avenue or the Western Main Road.
00:05:52 So again, it's on the eastbound lane of rights and road in the vicinity of Anna Street.
00:05:57 Remember, before we go back to Kupolali, remember the other day I told you,
00:06:01 if rights and road was to get locked off, just like what is happening here, and we didn't cause that,
00:06:08 people will have to find alternative routes?
00:06:10 Of course.
00:06:11 And that is what I'm saying.
00:06:13 If we use what happened today, we look at it, and then we can treat it as if it did not arise.
00:06:21 And that's all we are saying in terms of what took place there,
00:06:25 why all these government officials are there, and all of that.
00:06:28 We can afford to do that.
00:06:29 We are a responsible nation.
00:06:31 We don't want things to happen when people are here.
00:06:34 We don't want things to happen when they're not here.
00:06:36 Thank you very much, Senior Sukh, for those assurances.
00:06:40 That statement was quite profound.
00:06:42 We believe every word that you would have said.
00:06:44 Believe every word?
00:06:46 Proceed.
00:06:47 Thank you, Marlon.
00:06:50 I hope that the persons who are using that particular roadway, as you mentioned,
00:06:54 I want to urge them to proceed with caution and to obey all the directions of the law enforcement agencies.
00:07:03 I had the opportunity to glimpse the program, Marlon and Senior Sukh, yesterday, if not yesterday, the day before.
00:07:11 And I saw there was a particular video that was played where police officers were engaging members of the public on their exercise.
00:07:22 And we saw responses from persons who were within the car.
00:07:27 And you all had a very interesting discussion.
00:07:29 And I thought it was important to bring that to the forefront this afternoon.
00:07:33 A piece of law that I want to identify for members of the public, that one, protects police officers in the execution of their duties.
00:07:42 And also, more importantly, for the general public to appreciate that the police, when they are executing their public functions,
00:07:49 I repeat, not executing their personal functions, their public functions, their functions that they have taken an oath to execute.
00:08:00 How the Parliament has gone as far to protect the police officers to ensure that the police officers are given the fair opportunity to police in the public interest.
00:08:10 So I thought it was important to identify that, Marlon, as we go along this afternoon.
00:08:14 That particular provision I'll identify as we go along, but it's an area that I think is very, very important,
00:08:20 especially now where we are calling for increased police efforts.
00:08:25 I heard Senior Superintendent yesterday, again, quite rightly called on the need for effective police engagement and for police to challenge persons lawfully.
00:08:38 If we are to take control, as he indicated yesterday, the streets of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:08:43 So I thought to complement that discussion yesterday.
00:08:45 I think it was important to identify this topic that we're going to discuss and just to balance it, Marlon and Senior Superintendent.
00:08:52 We have seen many times that situations end up in conflict and police is called upon to use force, whether it be deadly force or whether it be other forms of force.
00:09:08 We have seen situations escalate. So I think it's also important for the citizen to understand how this law operates and how it protects police officers in the execution of their duty.
00:09:18 So I just wanted to identify that in our introduction, Marlon.
00:09:21 Operation Blue Line Exercises, NET 7 firearms.
00:09:24 Seven firearms and quantities of ammunition and narcotics were seized by officers during ongoing Operation Blue Line Exercises, which were conducted across the country between Monday, 24th of July, 2023 and Tuesday, 25th of July, 2023.
00:09:41 In the Tobago Division, Joint Intelligence Patrols Unit, TTDF, arrested a 30-year-old suspect of Plymouth for possession of firearm.
00:09:52 In the Southwestern Division, one arrested, a penile man, for possession of a Beretta pistol loaded with a magazine containing eight rounds of ammunition.
00:10:05 Quantities of marijuana and cocaine were also seized.
00:10:09 In the Southwestern Division, a 38-year-old male suspect of penile was held with a quantity of cocaine in Point 14.
00:10:18 Officers went to Chin Kit Beach, where they conducted a search of a bushy area along the shoreline, where 13 rounds of ammunition were found in a bag.
00:10:32 In the Northeastern Division, Task Force officers seized one pistol, a magazine, and 12 rounds of ammunition.
00:10:39 Camouflage clothing was also seized at an abandoned concrete structure.
00:10:45 On Tuesday, Central Division, officers arrested five male suspects and seized one Glock pistol loaded with a magazine containing 10 rounds of ammunition.
00:10:58 In Mova, five suspects were arrested for various offenses, including common assault, occasioning actual bodily harm, and robbery.
00:11:06 One pistol loaded with a magazine containing 12 rounds of ammunition was found hidden under a sheet of galvanized.
00:11:13 Northeastern Division, Task Force officers seized a semi-automatic pistol loaded with a magazine containing seven rounds of ammunition from the Mova District.
00:11:23 Quantity of camouflage clothing was also seized.
00:11:27 In the Southern Division, two men, ages 26 and 24, of San Fernando were held for possession of a quantity of ammunition.
00:11:34 In the Northern Division, Task Force and La Jolla Police Station officers acting on information proceeded to a bushy area in La Jolla, where they found one Smith & Wesson revolver loaded with two rounds of ammunition.
00:11:49 A lot of work by the police over the past few days.
00:11:52 Say that again? What did you say?
00:11:54 This is just my personal view.
00:11:56 What did you say?
00:11:57 A lot of work by the police over the past few days.
00:11:59 I know that I can't get right in the media, but that's alright. Go ahead.
00:12:02 You're so unlike anyway.
00:12:04 A 56-year-old driver from Cuva was granted bail with a sum of $50,000 when he appeared before a Cuva magistrate.
00:12:10 He is charged for child cruelty.
00:12:14 Let's see what this entails.
00:12:16 The magistrate Alexander Prince also ordered that the accused shall not have possession, care, or control of the child without an order of the court pending the determination of the matter.
00:12:40 The gentleman is charged with cruelty to a child.
00:12:46 According to police, a 9-year-old boy informed his mother that he was home alone and a report was made to the Cuva Police Station.
00:12:53 The officers responded and upon arrival at the home, they met with the child who told them that from 4 a.m. that morning, his father left him home alone and went to work.
00:13:03 As a result, the child was conveyed to the Cuva Police Station and the Child Protection Unit was contacted.
00:13:10 Now, you see how simple this thing is.
00:13:13 So the gentleman, it is not that the gentleman went to line, or he went gallivanting, or drinking, or he went with another woman, or whatever.
00:13:26 The gentleman left a child, a 9-year-old boy, at home.
00:13:33 The man went to work.
00:13:35 So Mr. Gentleman thought that he was doing nothing wrong.
00:13:38 And all of a sudden now, he is charged for child cruelty.
00:13:46 So although you may be, my point is, although you are going to do something, to do your job, to attend to a serious matter, but even in that case, it is not right.
00:14:05 And that is my point.
00:14:06 And it could be seen as child cruelty.
00:14:09 I don't know the abandonment.
00:14:12 Well, this is what your TTPS has said, you know.
00:14:15 The Communications Unit, you know.
00:14:17 The Communications Unit, you know.
00:14:19 That will sing praises all the time, you know.
00:14:21 I was just wondering.
00:14:23 Obviously, you care to chime in on that?
00:14:25 I am very cautious when matters are before the court, but just speaking generally.
00:14:31 And I heard Senior Soup murmuring on your side in terms of distinguishing between cruelty and abandonment.
00:14:38 My respectful view would be, if you assume a responsibility for the child, or you are the child parent or guardian, you have a responsibility to ensure that that child is afforded the necessary care and protection.
00:14:52 So we could have an abandonment, but there may be no harm to the child.
00:14:56 But the abandonment still succeeds.
00:14:58 When you talk about cruelty, it appears to me, I am not seeing the evidence, but it appears to me if you are using cruelty, there may be some harm that a child may have suffered.
00:15:06 Yes. So that is in my view the distinction between the abandonment and the cruelty.
00:15:10 Could be some other thing.
00:15:12 We will call and find out.
00:15:14 You have a number for that?
00:15:16 Of course.
00:15:18 We are good here.
00:15:20 I hand it over to you.
00:15:22 You were going on a particular road this evening in terms of what you would have observed on the program and the exchange sometimes of what I just call unnecessary chatter between police officers and members of the public.
00:15:38 And then you said that you understand that there is a law that caters for police officers in the execution of their lawful duty.
00:15:48 You said this and I wanted to say this.
00:15:50 Whenever I put on this uniform or I am a plainclothes police officer and I am treating with a situation, there is nothing personal about that.
00:16:02 I am looking at the execution of my duties lawfully.
00:16:08 And that is how I see it.
00:16:10 Anybody who is doing anything other than that, because I sometimes hear a person say, "Well, Alexander, but all you come here because..."
00:16:18 It is a set of stories, stories of stories.
00:16:20 And sometimes when you listen to it, it comes from a particular angle.
00:16:24 Yesterday I indicated to Marlon, he has now a better understanding of who makes the noise.
00:16:28 Alright?
00:16:30 Good evening, Mr. Jackie.
00:16:32 But who makes the noise?
00:16:34 Alright?
00:16:36 So if you want to take us to the pieces.
00:16:38 So, Mr. Marlon, as I indicated before, this topic that we are about to discuss, and I hope that it will be a very active topic.
00:16:44 It is of benefit to members of the public and I want to begin with that.
00:16:48 And why I am saying this is of benefit to members of the public, Marlon, is that I do not want members of the public to not know and find themselves in a particular state of affairs that they are tracked in very steep penalty.
00:17:02 And then only recognizing how serious or how strict the law can be in relation to where police are executing their duties.
00:17:08 So, let me go immediately on the Miscellaneous Provisions Law Enforcement Act.
00:17:14 It is a recent legislation, if I said 2019, that came and identified clearly, and I am going to go through slowly, a person, and very broad, a person who assaults, threatens, resists, and the one that I will want to really hammer this afternoon, obstruct a police officer in the execution of his or her duties.
00:17:42 With the intention to impede or retaliate or intimidate the police officer in the execution of his or her duties.
00:17:52 Commits a very serious criminal offense, which can attract both summary and indictable sanctions.
00:17:59 And we are looking at sanctions in the area of 10 years to 15 years, and we are looking at $250,000 to $500,000 in relation to fines.
00:18:10 So, immediately members of the public, the Parliament has given this sort of a protection to the police.
00:18:17 I want to identify again the four main operative words.
00:18:22 Assault, threaten, resist, and obstruct.
00:18:28 And may I say as well, Senior Superintendent, that this particular offense has also been stretched to the immigration officers, prison officers, who are also called upon to perform their duties in their various ways.
00:18:43 It has also extended to persons, Senior Superintendent, to persons who may be called upon to assist the police.
00:18:51 And lastly, persons who may be inciting persons to assault, threaten, obstruct, and resist the police can also be captured under this particular legislation.
00:19:06 So, immediately, just for a pause, it is not something that we are speaking lightly.
00:19:11 It has clearly identified itself as an indictable matter as well, which brings the seriousness in relation to this sort of offense.
00:19:19 Before we move on, I want, because I always hear these terms all of the time, and I don't know that people have a full appreciation for these words.
00:19:32 So, when you speak about summary and you speak about indictable, explain it for us.
00:19:38 Thank you for asking that question, Manan.
00:19:39 So, what we have in the criminal justice system, we have the magistrate court will deal with summary matters, strictly summary matters, where the magistrate is basically the trial factor in law.
00:19:53 Yes.
00:19:54 And then you have the high court, which will treat with indictable matters, where, well, in the law that we have now, you have judge and jury, or sometimes you have a judge alone trial.
00:20:02 So, that's the difference in terms of summary and indictable.
00:20:06 What sort of matters could be seen or viewed as summary matters?
00:20:11 Okay.
00:20:12 So, matters that are basically attracting, where it requires initiating proceedings within six months, or sometimes you may have extension within 12 months.
00:20:22 So, you have limitation on certain particular offenses.
00:20:26 Additionally, you have things like obscene language under the Summary Offenses Act, where there may be a fine and a penalty that may be probably less than five years.
00:20:35 So, those are some of the offenses that will be attracted to the magistrate court.
00:20:38 Yes.
00:20:39 The high court is the one who really sustains the murder, the rape, the trafficking in persons, and that sort of thing.
00:20:45 It's a very serious crime.
00:20:46 Very serious.
00:20:47 We have 10 years and more over five years.
00:20:49 But may I say as well, there's also, as it stands, a hybrid perspective as well, where you have matters can be tried both summarily and from an indictable perspective.
00:20:58 Case in point, the one that I identified this afternoon.
00:21:00 You have a matter that can be tried both summarily or it can be tried indictably.
00:21:05 Obviously, parties will come into play there.
00:21:08 So, I'm happy that you asked that question, Marlon, for clarity.
00:21:10 All right.
00:21:11 Gentlemen, we do have a lot to deal with, right?
00:21:13 So, here's what.
00:21:14 Let's go to our break, but let's remind persons of our numbers.
00:21:16 Firstly, 623-1711.
00:21:19 The extensions are 1992, 1993, 1996, and 1997.
00:21:26 Let's take a break.
00:21:30 We are going to a break.
00:21:33 We're coming back.
00:21:35 Do you have a complaint about your cell phone, landline, or your phone?
00:21:40 Do you have a complaint about your cell phone, landline, or your phone?
00:21:45 Do you have a complaint about your cell phone, landline, or your phone?
00:21:50 Do you have a complaint about your cell phone, landline, cable or satellite television or internet service
00:21:59 which has not been resolved even after you've complained to your provider?
00:22:03 If so, then call TATT, the telecommunications authority of Trinidad and Tobago,
00:22:08 at our toll-free number 800-TATT.
00:22:11 That's 800-8288 and lodge your complaint.
00:22:15 TATT is authorized by law to investigate your complaint.
00:22:20 So, call us at 800-TATT.
00:22:22 That's 800-8288.
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00:23:25 [Music]
00:23:51 It's not a thrill when your speed can't kill.
00:23:55 [Music]
00:24:09 All right, everybody. So, welcome back.
00:24:11 So, Corporal Zaki Ali is here, attorney at law, and we also have the senior superintendent of the IATF, Roger D. Alexander.
00:24:20 So, let us dissect this section you just spoke of.
00:24:25 So, here I am. I stop Marlon.
00:24:29 Well, let's say I have a search warrant and I enter Marlon's home.
00:24:32 So, in the search warrant, and then Marlon's significant other, or significant others.
00:24:38 Catherine.
00:24:39 Catherine, yeah. And Catherine came out.
00:24:43 And she started to say, "What you come here for? We don't do nothing.
00:24:49 Why you go from here to yourself?"
00:24:53 By the way, see, all this are the dead.
00:24:56 I'm going along those lines.
00:24:58 And then pushing the officers, "Don't go inside there. That's my bedroom. I have my personal thing in my panty drawer."
00:25:04 And all of that.
00:25:06 That one slip.
00:25:08 Right. And we're going along those lines.
00:25:11 And during that time, she continued to make statements about law enforcement, the threats.
00:25:19 "If I catch you tomorrow, and when I catch you on the road, I'll have a gun in my hand. I'll sign for your gun." And all that kind of thing.
00:25:26 Could we challenge that along those lines that you're speaking about now?
00:25:30 Well, see, Niasse, I want to commend you this afternoon for the fact scenario that you have placed on the table.
00:25:36 And I don't know what it was purposely, but what you have done there, you have basically triggered the four operative words for me.
00:25:44 Right.
00:25:45 So you give a fact scenario that wasn't only inviting a discussion on one of the words.
00:25:49 So, for example, from my recollection, and probably Marla can support me, you spoke about actual contact.
00:25:54 Pushing.
00:25:55 Pushing the officer.
00:25:56 You spoke about threatening, "I'll catch you."
00:25:58 And, "Or it'll be not moving my firearms."
00:26:02 The third thing you talk about is the context where you're going through to conduct the search, and you're still being obstructed.
00:26:12 "You can't go here. You can't go here." You're obstructing me from the execution of my duties.
00:26:15 Correct. So, just by virtue of what you have explained and placed on the table, the obstruction part is the one that I want to hammer, because it's very clear in terms of the contact, in terms of the assault.
00:26:28 Now, just if I go to obstruction, people believe that assault must be contact.
00:26:34 And let me dismiss that immediately.
00:26:36 Right.
00:26:37 So, the assault that we're speaking about here can also be equivalent to where you're causing someone to apprehend the unlawful violence on this person.
00:26:46 So, just by mere words, the police officer is no different from a human being.
00:26:51 Can apprehend unlawful violence on this person just by the way that you're conducting yourself.
00:26:56 So, there could be verbal assault.
00:26:57 Beautiful. So, assault can be committed via words.
00:27:01 Yeah. Like you want to come and hit it too.
00:27:04 Providing it's an honest belief on the part of the person that there will be an application of unlawful violence on the person of another without any authority.
00:27:12 So, that's number one.
00:27:13 So, I wanted to distinguish between when we're thinking about assault, person believe if they don't make contact, they're cool.
00:27:19 It's both words and actions.
00:27:22 I just want to be very clear with that.
00:27:24 But in terms of the obstruction and the other limbs, Malan and Senior Soup, once it makes the officer's execution of his duty difficult.
00:27:32 Let me repeat that.
00:27:34 Once whatever is prevailing makes the performance of the officer's duty, public duty that is, difficult, you are starting to bother and you need to be careful.
00:27:48 So, what I want to advise members of the public is that and I'll advise the police in a short while, the balance equation.
00:27:56 That because of the severity of this offense, we ought to be very careful in terms of our actions, our words and persons who may be in our company.
00:28:05 And I'm linking it back to the video that I saw yesterday where I think it was a passenger who was the one who was very vociferous.
00:28:13 Yes.
00:28:14 I also want to say in that particular vicinity, the law was very clear that a person.
00:28:20 They never say the driver.
00:28:21 A person.
00:28:23 So, even if at the point in time that I was treating based on the road traffic exercise, requesting a driver's permit and insurance for inspection and keeping with the motor vehicle and road trafficker.
00:28:35 And I'm speaking to the driver.
00:28:37 It requires every other passenger in that vehicle to be to understand that their actions can bring them into this aspect of obstruction.
00:28:47 Now, let me balance it because I like to be balanced with the members of the public is concerned.
00:28:50 Senior soup.
00:28:51 It's also important for the police.
00:28:55 And I'm keeping with the spirit and intent of the constitution here.
00:28:58 That while you may have a rest or you may have temporary restraint in order to carry out your work, because at that point in time, for example, the person would have stopped the motor vehicle.
00:29:07 So we engage the police officer.
00:29:10 So you have a temporary restraint.
00:29:12 It's incumbent upon the police officers to clearly identify themselves and to inform the persons promptly the reasons for why the person, whether it be in the form of a motorist, a pedestrian or even the execution of a search warrant.
00:29:28 Why the police is present and why they engage in those persons.
00:29:32 You must not leave it to members of the public to be in suspense as to what is happening.
00:29:37 How am I of interest to you?
00:29:39 What is your role and functions here?
00:29:41 So that you have proper balance, because we cannot be speaking about a very serious offense and where due processes is prevailing that the persons are not clear as to what is happening.
00:29:52 So once they are clear and they know that the police come to execute their duties, their public functions for public safety and security, and they decides to behave in in the way that will bring them into obstruction.
00:30:05 Threatening, assaulting, resisting.
00:30:11 Those are very, very serious issues.
00:30:13 This is something we have discussed.
00:30:16 There's a charge dealing with annoying language.
00:30:22 Remember? And there's another one where someone can say something against a police officer and that can, well let's say, disrespect the police officer, anger the police, insult the...
00:30:37 Is it insulting language?
00:30:39 So you have insulting language and you have annoying language.
00:30:43 That's a charge too?
00:30:44 Yes, and I'm happy that you raised that, Marlon.
00:30:46 So here it is that the law actually identified where certain statements will trigger annoying language and insulting language.
00:30:56 But here it is in the law, they didn't define whether insulting or annoying because that would have lead immediately to what? A criminal offense.
00:31:04 So just by mere of your actions obstructing the police officer in the execution of his duties can bring you into a problem.
00:31:12 So it didn't lead to your statements, it's not classified as a criminal offense here.
00:31:18 It just has sufficient to obstruct the police in relation to the execution of his duties.
00:31:23 Excellent point, Marlon, in terms of that distinction.
00:31:25 Let me play devil's advocate here.
00:31:29 So I have a suitor and I came to Marlon's home.
00:31:33 Again, his wife, Miss Beulah.
00:31:36 I came, I executed the suitor and I said, "Listen, this is your name here, this is Marlon of Kinshawa, suitor and the suitor."
00:31:43 And then he paused me.
00:31:46 So I asked the question, "I have no problem with that."
00:31:49 Before I look for the suitor, I would want my lawyer to be present.
00:31:55 Or I would want my neighbor to come across and witness what is happening here and all of that.
00:32:02 At what stage do we continue or do we have to wait and be so passive about this whole thing?
00:32:09 At what stage we can press on?
00:32:11 Well, see, that's again a brilliant question and you are taking me to stretch our discussion this afternoon.
00:32:16 So you are actually speaking to me about the protocol in terms of, in this context, execution of a search warrant.
00:32:21 Now let me just give an example.
00:32:23 If the information that you received and the complaint that you made to obtain the search warrant is one that results in firearms and ammunition,
00:32:31 the law has to be something that is fluid and sensible and applicable in a particular circumstance.
00:32:41 So in that particular situation, all that is required at that stage because of firearms and ammunition, there's already an inherent risk.
00:32:49 Not only to the police officers, members of the public, but even to persons in the household.
00:32:53 So in that particular context, you are not going to deny the rights, but the rights will be afforded at the appropriate time.
00:32:59 So once we are there and they have the opportunity, there is a search warrant that we need for you, we go in.
00:33:03 But there are also situations that you may not have the time because you have to secure.
00:33:08 And as soon as you bring the place under control, who is the owner of this house?
00:33:13 You go to them, show them the warrant because you have everything under control.
00:33:16 So it's a tactical approach, but I want to leave the point that the nature of the warrant will always dictate how the police conduct their activities.
00:33:27 In response, before we leave that premises, those persons ought to know, see, and the warrant ought to be read to them so that they are satisfied.
00:33:36 But officer is giving the impression that the police, based on the circumstances, that the police also have a discretion in the matter.
00:33:46 Right.
00:33:47 Also?
00:33:48 Yeah, while that's all, I like the discretion, but no, I have discretion.
00:33:51 But can I just say something?
00:33:52 You have a minute, but go ahead.
00:33:53 Can I just say something because Marlon projected something.
00:33:55 Why went to the search warrant for the firearms?
00:33:58 If you look at how the firearms act is voted, senior superintendent, well, Marlon, I don't know if you look at section 30 of that firearms act.
00:34:04 It talks about when you obtain a search warrant, you have the opportunity to plead and if need be, by force.
00:34:09 And if need be, by force.
00:34:11 So that in itself starts to explain that why would the justice of the peace and the majesty give you the authority that if need be, by force.
00:34:18 If they don't understand the seriousness involved.
00:34:20 The seriousness that you may have to use that force to get in in order to ensure that the items that you are looking for secure and not being used against you for the persons who are coming in.
00:34:32 So it's a very tactical situation, but I want to leave the point, Marlon, before we go to the break, that before the police officers leave that premises.
00:34:39 Yeah.
00:34:40 They ought to read that warrant, show that warrant so that there's a balance of justice.
00:34:44 They will be left in a comfortable state.
00:34:46 That's correct. That's the important point there.
00:34:48 Gentlemen, we're going to the break. We're coming back.
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00:36:00 [Music]
00:36:09 All right. So we're back with Corporal Zahir Ali, attorney at law, and we do have the senior superintendent of the IATF.
00:36:16 Let's take our first call. Good evening, caller.
00:36:18 Good evening, caller.
00:36:19 Good evening, Marlon. Good evening to the officers. Officer Ali, I want to address you this evening, please, if it's possible.
00:36:25 One, you see those two fellows next to you, they have a strange sense of humor.
00:36:30 So anytime you see that confused, you come up to them and just smile.
00:36:33 Just smile. Especially one on the other side.
00:36:37 [Laughter]
00:36:39 I got it.
00:36:40 Number two question, but Officer Ali, so Marlon, home has been searched, and he didn't use no unknowing language.
00:36:48 He didn't push the officer, but he used a lot of hand gestures.
00:36:52 You know, he point the finger like a gun. You know how those fellows do it on the street.
00:36:56 Would that be a violation as well, the hand gestures?
00:37:00 He didn't say anything, but a lot of hand gestures was involved.
00:37:03 Thank you. Have a good evening, everyone.
00:37:05 All right. Thank you, sir.
00:37:07 I have a question. I want to stay in the realm of once the officer's assessment is one that makes whatever action that you are exhibiting,
00:37:19 once it makes the officer's execution of his duty difficult, and that difficulty might even mean,
00:37:25 let's go, and I spoke about assault, about apprehending, that apprehension of the unlawful, immediate violence on the person.
00:37:34 So even if you're using hand gestures, while it may appear to be something that may be soft,
00:37:42 once the police officer's assessment at the point in time, and that will be weird at that particular point in time,
00:37:48 makes the execution, that's the key here, makes the execution of the police officer's duty difficult,
00:37:55 you are starting to border on the offense that we are speaking about.
00:37:59 So there was no contact, as he indicated, so I cannot go to assault.
00:38:03 However, could you imagine, Senior Su, that he's in your face and telling you that, hey, I will kill you.
00:38:10 So we ought to weigh the situation very careful in terms of that particular status quo that he gave this afternoon.
00:38:18 Thanks, Kola, for your...
00:38:19 Let's take a call. Let's take a call. Good evening, Kola.
00:38:21 Good evening, Alexander.
00:38:25 Hey, good to see your friend, Alexander.
00:38:26 Alexander.
00:38:27 Go ahead, sir.
00:38:28 That's your boy?
00:38:29 Right. I went to the FUL department the other day, and I told my promise to young lady there,
00:38:36 that I was going to call you and Mama Guy, and that department.
00:38:42 You get your?
00:38:43 Why are they playing hide and seek with the FUL department?
00:38:47 Because they don't want to give people fire. They're hiding the whole department.
00:38:51 The department moved four times in the last year. Four times.
00:38:58 All they're doing is hiding the whole department just not to give people the firearms.
00:39:03 Right?
00:39:04 But I understand they moved them in some untruthable place, and they have to move them there, in a different place now.
00:39:10 So I said, I'm going to call Mama Guy, the department, and you, especially,
00:39:15 because they don't want to give a few. They're playing hide and seek with the department.
00:39:20 Right?
00:39:21 But no, no, no. My problem with the department is that all they do is they have the courtesy to write back somebody
00:39:27 after five years, and they say, well, look, you didn't get through.
00:39:33 Oh, you got through. We're on fire. We haven't reached your number yet.
00:39:36 Some kind of feedback dropped off to the Dutton John public.
00:39:39 You actually, and Gary Griffin promised to deal with that situation at home.
00:39:44 There's been no coming, no feedback to the servicery that applies to FUL.
00:39:50 And he, his office came to an end, and a new regime started, and all this still happened.
00:39:55 There to the people who come and fight and request the, before the one of the formatters to get a feedback,
00:40:03 it has now already laid on the feedback.
00:40:06 So if you need feedback, you can't get feedback on that. Right?
00:40:10 But, but, but, would you, would you, would you appreciate the fact that way back before this last time here,
00:40:19 the applications of IAM was not as rigid in the past as it is now, and rightfully so because of crime and all that.
00:40:27 What she explained to me, what she explained to me, from what she explained to me,
00:40:32 I give kudos to the new policy, which is the, your, your, your inspection,
00:40:43 your investigation will not be done at your station district anymore, and it will be done by the FUL department.
00:40:51 From what she explained, that was where the bubble was being run.
00:40:56 We are getting, we have people who go up to the commissioner, who is managing handle.
00:41:01 So now it is all up to the FUL department and the investigators, the trained investigators in that department to vet the applicants.
00:41:11 So I feel comfortable that, that they may be clamping down on the possibility for bribery and corruption. Right?
00:41:19 But, it still doesn't mitigate the fact that no communication, I have to go there to find that out.
00:41:26 No communication, you're asking people for phone number, you're asking people for email, you're asking people all kinds of information,
00:41:31 but you're not getting a feedback as to what is your status when you apply.
00:41:36 And I'm talking about my application in 2015.
00:41:38 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
00:41:41 What I assure you, I know from the time the officers of that section settled down, now more than ever,
00:41:47 we probably could ask the communication department to bring someone here to help us address the situation,
00:41:53 because it continues to prolong and prolong, and it's about time the TTPS face members of the public and tell them what is in fact happening.
00:42:02 Yeah. Alright, let's take another call. Good evening, caller.
00:42:05 Good evening. Good evening, gentlemen.
00:42:07 Yes, sir.
00:42:09 Officer, Mr. Hopkinson, I traverse the nation's roads between point A and point B.
00:42:17 I often see unmasked police vehicles, masked police vehicles, shoulderless in the shoulders of the nation's roads.
00:42:26 What is quite annoying, sir, and I hope that you will understand,
00:42:30 what is quite annoying is that the non-emergency persons of politics, tires, licensing officers,
00:42:37 three of them this evening in question, driving with great intent to head somewhere.
00:42:44 You know where that somewhere is? In the Backpack Riverside Plaza.
00:42:48 Cutting through traffic, sirens blazing as though they have a wounded individual or they're taking someone to the hospital.
00:42:55 Is there something that can be done in reference to curb the enthusiasm of some of these persons afforded the ability to use sirens and blue lights on vehicles?
00:43:05 Good evening, gentlemen. Enjoy your afternoon. I wait for your response.
00:43:09 Thank you very much, sir. We have to go to a break, but you have a minute.
00:43:11 Let me also share this with you, sir.
00:43:13 Would you understand if I told you that many a times, licensing officers worked alongside law enforcement.
00:43:20 Today, they were at the John John Towers area there.
00:43:25 And if information comes to law enforcement, and we have in our company the licensing officers who have that level of authority to check and understand if a vehicle is in fact interfered with, whatever, whatever,
00:43:39 then we will use them for that purpose. And that is exactly what happened today because I was not too far away when that was taking place.
00:43:45 They wouldn't just go into just the plaza. They went inside of the plaza up to the football field.
00:43:51 All right. So it wasn't just about going to the plaza. And that was the end of that.
00:43:55 So I understand. Sometimes it's command center calling or some civilian call and saying men doing this or men just drop a vehicle there and the police together with licensing officers will respond accordingly.
00:44:05 All right. We're coming back.
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00:46:06 A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
00:46:12 [Music]
00:46:21 All right, gentlemen. Here's what I want to put on the table.
00:46:24 Because judging from what you all have explained this afternoon into evening here,
00:46:30 I get the feeling that an individual can face several charges for obstruction, impeding police officers, assaulting police officers, threatening police officers, resisting arrest.
00:46:46 So it's a number of charges that one individual can face.
00:46:52 And before you even answer that, I want you to include, that also could be included, is whatever may be found on you.
00:47:00 Of course. Go ahead, sir.
00:47:02 Well, Marlon, I love your analysis in terms of how you broke down the provision.
00:47:07 It caused me to look closely into it where if you look at the conduct of an individual in any given situation,
00:47:13 and I want to go back to the situation that you gave earlier, Senior Sue,
00:47:16 you would have seen a contravention of at least three if not four of the operative words.
00:47:21 So could you imagine that you actually had contact with the officer, which brings about the assault.
00:47:27 And subsequently, you also conducted yourself that, whether it be orally or physically, that would have amounted to some form of obstruction.
00:47:42 You are seeing that it is really compounded.
00:47:45 So it will be a decision in terms of charging, whether we give you counts, because in the first instance,
00:47:52 you would have assaulted the officer to impede or to delay in the execution of his duties.
00:47:58 And moments later, by your words or your actions, you again obstructed the police officer.
00:48:03 So coming out of that situation, I think it's brilliant because you will have, in my view, if I were to advise in that matter,
00:48:09 I'll be looking at every count that led to the officer having a difficulty to execute his or her duty.
00:48:17 So I think another brilliant point, Malan, in terms of the counts coming out of that particular.
00:48:22 But don't leave it here. But don't leave it here.
00:48:24 Because let's say so I and it's coming off your point, but I want to boil it down a little more and really get into the heart of it.
00:48:37 Because it could be a situation. So I curse the police officer. I hit him a lash. I block. I block.
00:48:48 I'm blocking the police officers now. There's a tussle. So there's fighting, cursing, a lot of things happening.
00:48:55 So so so the question is, if the person verbally assaults you, that could be an assault.
00:49:06 It could also be annoying language. It could also be what's the next one?
00:49:12 Annoying language. So so so you could have one person being charged with more than one assault.
00:49:24 Well, in terms of the how this particular section is what is indicated before, it will lead to when the officer is executing his duties.
00:49:33 Yes. The actions upon that particular person will ignite this particular section.
00:49:38 But it doesn't negate all the contraventions of the criminal law.
00:49:42 And that will bring into a situation where, let's say, the criminal law, apart from this particular section, was in fact breached.
00:49:49 And you're going to now effect an arrest. What you have? The resistance. So in attempting to effect an arrest for a criminal breach, let's say you found out wrong ammunition.
00:49:58 I just say in my way of example, and you know, going to now effect an arrest, possession of ammunition without a license.
00:50:04 And you the faintest of, you know, the old man or they try to pull away from you.
00:50:11 That in itself leads to the fourth element, which is what? Resisting the police officer in the execution of his duties.
00:50:17 Because at that time he has the power to what? To detect crime and to effect an arrest. And in so doing, you resist it.
00:50:24 Let's go down the easier road. It's a bargain charges. Let's go down to the easier road.
00:50:28 So, Corporal Ali approached me. He had reasonable cause to suspect I might be tooting something in my possession.
00:50:34 And he came, he identified himself, told me what he think and he say that he wants to search me.
00:50:42 So as he put his hand, he say, "Yo, yo, yo, yo, yellow. Now, do not touch me. Do not touch me. Do not touch me.
00:50:51 Do not touch me. Do not touch me. I will search myself." So he going into his pocket like this, smiling up.
00:50:58 Are you going to stand there and allow that to happen at this time?
00:51:05 You move on him again and he push you away again. That's simple search.
00:51:10 Corporal Ali, how do we address that simple search? Or I don't want to be searched and his actions?
00:51:17 Well, Senior Asouk, the question I'll put to you and Marlon this afternoon to answer that question.
00:51:24 What is or what would amount to the execution of a police officer's duties?
00:51:29 And if in that particular situation, a police officer, one of his duties is to what?
00:51:34 Patrol the streets in order to what? Detect crime and other infraction of the law.
00:51:39 And that particular situation he's speaking about, sorry, is a situation where you are looking for what?
00:51:44 Persons with illegal firearms. So if you, and I love the way that you approach the individual,
00:51:50 proper identification of yourself and telling the individual about your reasonable suspicion.
00:51:56 So right there and then you would have basically announced what? That you are not on a personal context.
00:52:01 This have nothing to do with you. You are looking at public safety and security and you are executing your duties.
00:52:06 And this is the response from the individual. In my humble view, you are starting to border.
00:52:12 If not already in this particular section that we are speaking about.
00:52:16 Before I go on, there are persons that look at this program. Sometimes we show videos where we are searching homes, persons' houses.
00:52:23 And, you know, we have heard comments even from the people in the streets.
00:52:28 Alexander, even from my friend who just called a short while ago, Alexander,
00:52:32 or he didn't give the man a chance to see the warrant.
00:52:36 I have no problem with that when we run into a home.
00:52:40 The question is, Corporal Ali, what you are going to do if you enter a home with the same warrant that you have for firearms as information.
00:52:49 And as you enter, the big man block you by the door and say, "I want to see the warrant."
00:52:54 And you are doing all of that while someone is maneuvering on the inside.
00:52:58 Pops out of a room, realize the police is here. In a bid to escape, fire one to the lady police.
00:53:04 Fire shot. Boom shot to the lady police. And enter the room.
00:53:11 How are we to address that there and then under these circumstances?
00:53:15 Senior Superior, you have digressed into the issue of use of force.
00:53:19 So apart from the protocols that we are observing in terms of this particular section with obstruction and assaults and resisting and so forth,
00:53:26 you have gone to the context where this is not a shot to delay.
00:53:30 This is a shot with the intention to kill.
00:53:33 So I will squarely leave it in the context where the use of force policy will be definitely applicable under those circumstances
00:53:40 where the police officer's life is in immediate danger.
00:53:44 So there was use of such force as is reasonable under these circumstances.
00:53:48 So then after you do all this force you use, let's say you are among the room and you fire because this man already fired a shot at you.
00:53:55 And when the smoke is cleared, you realize that four children were shot on the bed together with the gentleman.
00:54:03 Four children of the household?
00:54:06 Yeah.
00:54:07 Right, so there's a principle or there's a concept in law that when that person fired that weapon and it being an illegal weapon,
00:54:13 they would have surrendered their protection of the criminal law.
00:54:16 So any casualties emerging from that where the police officers would have discharged their firearm
00:54:22 with consultation with the DPP can easily end up in the hands of that individual for those persons who would have died.
00:54:27 That does not say or give the police a license to operate recklessly.
00:54:32 They still are trained.
00:54:34 They still should be executing their duties, the discharging of the firearm within the use of force policy.
00:54:40 But if any circumstances, person meet their demise, if I should say that,
00:54:45 there's a principle or concept in law that the person who brought the attack on himself, leading to the other person being injured,
00:54:52 they will be attracted to the criminal liability for those individuals.
00:54:55 Let's go to a break. We're coming back.
00:54:57 [Music]
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00:55:47 [Music]
00:56:09 [Music]
00:56:14 Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 in fines and lose your license permanently.
00:56:22 No? Then don't drink and drive.
00:56:26 A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
00:56:30 [Music]
00:56:38 Alright, welcome back. So let me ask this question then.
00:56:40 Ask the people's question.
00:56:41 I get the impression by what you all are saying to us here,
00:56:46 that the police have been very lenient on people over the years.
00:56:53 Because we have seen at protests where people are engaged in all sorts of activities.
00:57:01 They're jostling the police.
00:57:03 I just call it media mischief.
00:57:06 They have the all-year wicked woman.
00:57:09 There was a recent video where a lady was actually cursing a police officer in the worst way.
00:57:19 I tell about his mother.
00:57:20 Yeah.
00:57:21 Your mother is an H.
00:57:22 So in circumstances such as these, I get the impression that the police are being very lenient
00:57:29 because they could make a number of arrests. That's one.
00:57:33 And the person's arrested, they can face a number of charges.
00:57:38 Well Marlon, I do not want to take the position that the police have been lenient.
00:57:45 Yes.
00:57:46 And I said this particular section, while there may have been obstruction before in the law books,
00:57:51 this particular section in 2019, I thought it was important for us to bring it alive this afternoon
00:57:56 so that if, perchance, police were lenient or did not know where their powers reside,
00:58:03 now they are clear as to where their powers reside.
00:58:05 And more importantly now from a citizen's perspective,
00:58:09 that if the citizen was not aware or were not aware of how their conduct
00:58:14 had bring them into very serious circumstances,
00:58:17 now they are very clear as to how the law is applicable to both the citizen
00:58:21 and the role and function of the police in applying this particular law.
00:58:24 So I don't want to take the approach that they were lenient.
00:58:26 Now that we have brought it alive, as I said before,
00:58:29 maybe on the next occasion we can start having some assessment to see whether in fact
00:58:34 this particular law is being used and in how frequent it is being used.
00:58:38 But the mechanisms are there for the police to take action.
00:58:40 That's correct.
00:58:41 It is.
00:58:42 And that's one of the things.
00:58:44 While we go along the same law, how has it catered for children behaving in the same manner?
00:58:50 Well, see, just as I began before, it was clearly stated, a person.
00:58:55 A person.
00:58:56 Yeah, a person.
00:58:57 So it means that the child who is considered a child is not exempted in any way.
00:59:02 Well, what I want to bring about here is that like in anything for criminality,
00:59:06 for having that criminal intent.
00:59:07 Yeah, we understand that part, yeah.
00:59:08 So once a child has the age of criminality or to attract criminality or to be criminally liable
00:59:14 or there's a presumption that a person understands or appreciates his or her conduct,
00:59:20 they will be brought into the equation because it's a person.
00:59:22 All right.
00:59:23 So we have to take a call.
00:59:25 Good evening, caller.
00:59:27 Caller, are you there?
00:59:30 Right.
00:59:31 Why are you waiting?
00:59:32 Because we see the school signs.
00:59:33 No, no, the caller is there.
00:59:34 The caller is there.
00:59:35 Caller.
00:59:36 Hello, good evening.
00:59:38 Good evening, Officer.
00:59:39 Yes.
00:59:40 My name is Anil Sehra, Officer.
00:59:43 Yes.
00:59:44 I just got in touch with a noise pollution on Horsan Street.
00:59:52 I was going up the path.
00:59:53 Two years, three or four times a week, a car come and make noise.
00:59:57 We reported to the police station.
01:00:01 The police station just come and off.
01:00:05 So it's a contemporary offense.
01:00:08 I don't know how to deal with this.
01:00:10 I will listen up here.
01:00:11 Thank you.
01:00:12 I'm going to write noise pollution at Horsan Street in Aruka.
01:00:15 Yeah.
01:00:16 And the police told him it's a ticket of offense.
01:00:19 I don't know.
01:00:20 But he's asking how do we deal with that.
01:00:22 Well, Marlon, on this particular program, and just last week, I referred to an article where this issue of noise pollution and in the context of public nuisance, I have spoken at length and breadth of this.
01:00:34 I'll give one very clear direction as to where the police power lies in relation to treating with this.
01:00:40 And I'll be very disappointed if police officers are still responding allegedly in this way to persons who are calling in without checking, without investigating and seeing where the chips fall.
01:00:52 I want to also identify that there's a particular group that has come to law enforcement and seen as who can support me with this, who is looking into the situation very seriously with law enforcement to try and invite the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago to start looking at more stricter laws to be able to deal with the situation, increase the penalties and so forth.
01:01:13 So it's not a situation that we have turned a blind eye to.
01:01:16 I know that there's a lot of discussion, but it hurts me when I hear that persons are calling in the police stations and they are getting this sort of response.
01:01:23 I do not know in fairness to the police officers whether it has reached them in terms of where the particular section could be invoked and the lines of inquiry that they ought to conduct to determine whether in fact the noise pollution impacts Section 70 of the Summary Offences Act for the public nuisance that we are speaking about.
01:01:43 So I'll answer it like that. I've spoken at length and breadth on this particular program and Thursday's Next Center on other occasions.
01:01:52 I want to deal with an issue that some police officers find confusing and members of the public seem to want to take advantage of it because they were probably advised by some legal person.
01:02:03 So I came to your home to investigate a matter and while I'm there you're obscene in language in place.
01:02:14 Why? All you set up, "Eek!" Police and them all over the house, "Eek!" people and all kind of thing and I live in peace.
01:02:22 I'm a law abiding "Eek!" citizen here and obscene language in the place, right?
01:02:26 So the officer continued to ask questions and things but he continued to behave like that and cursing and talking about the institution and then it went over from the institution.
01:02:38 All police officers went, "Eek!" and then it started to, "You, you, you, you, you, you want me to come here because of some 'Eek!'"
01:02:44 And, and, and, and, "Eek!" and boy, whew! It went all the way.
01:02:49 Now police officers, we understand that there is a place called a public place to which brings realness to the offense and then that is a private place.
01:03:06 How do we address that situation then? Is that still obscene language or has it moved from the realm of obscene probably to annoying or another language from which we have the power to address?
01:03:21 Excellent question again, Senior Superintendent.
01:03:24 And I wouldn't go to address it in the context of obscene language and insulting language and annoying language.
01:03:31 In the context, not that I'm ruling it out, but I wouldn't look at it in that context.
01:03:36 But I'm looking at it in the context where specifically what we're discussing this afternoon.
01:03:40 Whether that conduct cumulatively that you're highlighting, whether it makes the police execution of his duties difficult.
01:03:49 Because in the first instance, we must recognize that the police going to that particular private premises would have some jurisdiction.
01:03:55 They are going to deal with a report of crime, right?
01:03:58 They're going to deal with something that may be infecting the public's interests.
01:04:01 And whilst there, they are met with this cumulative conduct on the part of the individual.
01:04:06 So I would not want to look at it in a narrow way to say, okay, obscene language.
01:04:12 But what it is amounting to, if it makes the difficulty for the police officer to execute his duties, there where I would want to look at it from a private context.
01:04:24 However, last in this particular section, if you notice, this section, just like we spoke about a person.
01:04:31 So it didn't distinguish a child from an adult.
01:04:33 This section didn't speak about private and public either.
01:04:36 So it spoke about where the police officer is in execution of his duties.
01:04:42 That execution of his duties can be in a public context or it can be in a private context.
01:04:46 And we were speaking a while ago about the execution of the search warrants.
01:04:49 It's in a private, but the police came to do what?
01:04:51 A function that they are governed by what?
01:04:53 By law to execute that search warrant.
01:04:55 Good. Let's go to a break. We'll come back.
01:04:59 [Music]
01:05:23 [Music]
01:05:52 The title is up for grabs at the folk theater finals of the prime minister's best village trophy competition.
01:05:58 Enjoy the song, dance and drama as the best performers from districts across the country take to the stage, vying for the prize.
01:06:06 It's happening at Sapa every day from July 30th to August 3rd.
01:06:10 Admission is free and showtime is 6pm.
01:06:13 Tickets are available at the box office on show days.
01:06:16 So come out and support your community and the prime minister's best village trophy competition celebrating 60 years.
01:06:23 Thank you, members of the media.
01:06:25 This concludes our weekly press briefing.
01:06:29 As the Trinidad and Tobago police service continues to protect and serve with pride.
01:06:35 We are calling on all citizens of Trinidad and Tobago to get on board with us to ensure that everyone is able to live in a crime free society.
01:06:45 Are you on board?
01:06:49 This is my country and I am on board.
01:06:53 I am on board with the Trinidad and Tobago police service. Let us save the youth of the nation. Get on board.
01:07:01 Crime affects all of us. Children, communities and the country as a whole.
01:07:06 Supporting crime victims and working with the police service. I am on board.
01:07:12 This is my country and I am on board.
01:07:16 My name is Nikolai Blackmon and I am on board with the TTPS.
01:07:20 Vision on Mission is proud to partner with the TTPS because crime prevention is everybody's business.
01:07:28 We are the National Congress of Incorporated Spiritual Baptist Organizations of Trinidad and Tobago and we are on board with the TTPS in its fight against crime.
01:07:38 I'm a farmer. This is my country and I'm on board.
01:07:42 I'm Charles Jason Gordon, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Port-au-Prince. I am on board in the TTPS fight against crime.
01:07:51 We are all on board.
01:08:05 All right, welcome back. Let's take another call. Good evening caller.
01:08:09 Good afternoon, gentlemen. Yes, sir. Mr. Mahalan. Yes, sir. Senior Superintendent.
01:08:17 I have a concern. I always see people up in the police base when they're executing their duty.
01:08:23 I learned to drive a long, long time ago and they say I must park 30 feet from a corner.
01:08:27 Why can't we have some rules saying when police are executing their duties, you must stay at least X meters or 5 or 10 or whatever.
01:08:36 And once you cross that threshold, you're presenting yourself as a threat or obstruction or something like that.
01:08:42 I would like to see that in the new regulations, whatever you're making.
01:08:46 And the next thing is that when people stand up over the road and point a firearm at you,
01:08:58 the point of loading the firearm, is that considered an assault with a deadly weapon? That one is for Mr. Allen.
01:09:04 And Mahalan, what about Chattanooga Boy? If I'm not mistaken.
01:09:07 You're good. You're good.
01:09:08 Yeah. All right.
01:09:09 You're good. You're good.
01:09:10 Thank you very much.
01:09:11 It's difficult to get through because it seems like you're under new management.
01:09:17 Nobody lines.
01:09:18 Yeah, they're saying you're under new management in terms of this communication system.
01:09:21 Yeah.
01:09:22 So you're not getting through like before.
01:09:24 Where are we?
01:09:27 No, the question.
01:09:28 The question.
01:09:29 A person pointing a weapon at an individual from a distance.
01:09:33 Well, actually, you have two issues. One where he suggested that, you know, looking at distance.
01:09:39 So when police are in operation, they have it cordoned off.
01:09:43 That may be applicable in particular circumstances.
01:09:45 Yeah.
01:09:46 But it's something that we can consider. So I want to turn the call off for that.
01:09:49 And the issue in terms of someone across the road pointing a firearm at you.
01:09:54 And the caller described it, Senior Sup, as an assault with a weapon.
01:09:58 Or we know it as a common assault.
01:09:59 Common assault.
01:10:00 I will say in that context, once you are seeing something that's looking like a weapon pointed at you.
01:10:05 I'm looking at, in that particular instance, and you say across the road, we know the size of our road.
01:10:09 So I'm going on the basis of Trinidad.
01:10:11 That is where your life is in immediate danger.
01:10:14 So it wouldn't only be an assault with a weapon.
01:10:17 That may be bringing the use of force policy into context.
01:10:20 Yeah, I know.
01:10:21 So that's a very serious situation.
01:10:22 So I'm looking at it more than an offense in terms of looking to do a preservation of life.
01:10:27 Right, yeah.
01:10:28 All right. Take a call.
01:10:30 Good evening caller.
01:10:31 Yes, good afternoon gentlemen.
01:10:33 Sir.
01:10:34 One of the things I think will assist the police greatly.
01:10:41 Now, we hear very often people say, you know, when people in Trinidad hear they throw things on the ground, they throw paper on the ground.
01:10:50 Spit on the ground. When they go abroad, they don't do that at all.
01:10:53 The reason why they don't do that is because over there, if a police is spit on the ground, they're coming at you.
01:11:03 They throw a piece of paper on the ground and they're coming at you.
01:11:05 But right now, we have tint laws in Trinidad here.
01:11:10 And you're seeing vehicles tint all over the place.
01:11:14 What I think the police should do.
01:11:16 Now I'm saying that they don't do it to some extent.
01:11:18 This is not an attack.
01:11:19 This is just a suggestion.
01:11:21 Is that when police go in, you see, it must be only in a roadblock.
01:11:25 You see a vehicle with that tint?
01:11:27 Stop them.
01:11:29 You see somebody throw something at them?
01:11:31 Stop them. Deal with them.
01:11:33 That way people will get to respect the police and they will stay in the corner because they know they can't take that chance.
01:11:39 But people get in a way, all these little things.
01:11:42 I used to sit here in my yard and I used to see about four cars passing by.
01:11:45 There can't be nothing in them.
01:11:47 It's black here.
01:11:49 You can't see nothing.
01:11:51 I think that's what happens when you make people respect the police.
01:11:55 When you see people on the road and they see tint on it, stop them.
01:12:01 Challenge them.
01:12:03 And I think that's exactly what I told Mr. Alexander we're talking about.
01:12:08 We need to do that in a more serious way.
01:12:11 If they throw paper on the road, they spit on the road,
01:12:13 if they have a black paint, if they have a brake light,
01:12:17 stop them on the road.
01:12:19 Stop them. Don't wait for them to clear the roadblock.
01:12:21 Thank you, gentlemen.
01:12:23 Thank you.
01:12:25 What the caller is alluding to is that during the week,
01:12:27 especially from last Friday and Monday,
01:12:29 I spoke about enforcement of the laws of Toronto Vehicle to such an extent where we have a zero tolerance approach.
01:12:36 Take for instance, whether you smoke and you throw the butt on the ground.
01:12:41 As simple as that, we can start.
01:12:43 Because some people say low-hanging fruit, but then if they are the low-hanging fruit,
01:12:48 I often say the weight of the low-hanging fruit is what pulls the tree down.
01:12:52 So if we need to adjust that, we need to adjust it now.
01:12:57 A zero tolerance approach to enforcement,
01:13:00 because it seems like we have moved away from enforcing laws.
01:13:04 And that is why sometimes I hear in the public domain,
01:13:07 persons saying, "Well, you know, the police has laws to treat it up."
01:13:12 And sometimes I have to put my tail between my legs and say, "Yes, Mr. Hopkinson."
01:13:19 But you know, the police are between a rock and a hard place.
01:13:24 I do agree with you.
01:13:28 So even for the small infractions, action should be taken.
01:13:31 However, when you are asking the police that every week, every day,
01:13:38 you're calling on the citizenry, "Come and work with us. Come and work with us.
01:13:42 Come and work with us. Come and give us information."
01:13:45 And then you charge an individual, arrest or charge an individual for a small infraction.
01:13:53 That is tearing away literally at the relationship between members of the public and the police.
01:14:01 Let me say this.
01:14:03 Mr. Hopkinson, when the public realize that I asking for information is not just to treat with me,
01:14:10 but to treat with the situation that is confronting them,
01:14:14 then I cannot see there being an issue.
01:14:16 And if you're saying you're a law-abiding citizen, don't just say it.
01:14:21 Let me see it from your actions, Mr. Hopkinson.
01:14:23 Prove to us, the world, that you are in fact a law-abiding citizen.
01:14:27 Don't just tell me, and then as you're not looking, you bring the lights.
01:14:31 Mr. Hopkinson.
01:14:32 Mr. Ali.
01:14:35 I think you raise a matter that is ripe for argument and discussion.
01:14:43 Because it's a live issue, and we cannot sideline that particular issue.
01:14:47 But whilst we are calling on persons, if you see something, say something,
01:14:52 and we're looking for information from members of the public to treat with crime,
01:14:58 let's look at the preamble to the Constitution that governs all of us.
01:15:01 Respect for the rule of law.
01:15:04 Respect for the rule of law.
01:15:06 So what we would like to be seeing is that if we are calling you to give information,
01:15:12 it will be even so acceptable that the person who's giving information is a person
01:15:18 who is upholding the rule of law.
01:15:20 So we would be excited by that.
01:15:22 But I get your point, Marlon, that there will be some person who's saying,
01:15:25 "Okay, you charge me for a defective fitting in my vehicle,
01:15:28 and you are asking me to give information."
01:15:30 We understand that could be a very, very engaging discussion,
01:15:37 but members of the public.
01:15:40 I remember you, if not yesterday, I think the day before,
01:15:44 you were talking about the zero tolerance approach,
01:15:46 and we even link it to a comparison to the United States,
01:15:49 where they were talking about a broken windows theory, right,
01:15:52 in terms of where they were looking at the simple, small things.
01:15:54 And I keep saying, and I think I said it on this program,
01:15:57 that if we are speaking about fluid strategies to deal with crime,
01:16:00 you may see a vehicle that may be derelict,
01:16:02 but be parked on the roadway or parked in a particular alley.
01:16:05 Do you know if that vehicle has been used for securing firearms?
01:16:09 Do you know if that vehicle is used for storing narcotics?
01:16:13 Do you know if that vehicle has been stored for offensive weapons and ski masks?
01:16:17 So, could you imagine that you now treat that particular vehicle
01:16:20 with your zero tolerance approach?
01:16:22 You move that vehicle, what you have just done to the criminal element,
01:16:25 you have now disturbed their pattern, their advantage that they may have.
01:16:31 So, just by way of example, so we need to look at it 360,
01:16:34 but I get your point, Marlon.
01:16:36 Alexander, don't play your supporting Mr. Ali's point, eh,
01:16:39 because you're the same person who stood here and said that
01:16:42 he doesn't know if the vehicle is derelict.
01:16:45 It's on the road for six years, but he doesn't know if it's derelict.
01:16:48 He wants to know if it has tires, if the tire is flat,
01:16:51 if the owner of the vehicle is sick, if he's dead, all kinds of things.
01:16:54 Wait, wait, wait, wait, without me saying a word, let me move away from the issue
01:16:58 and ask Mr. Ali what he thinks. Go ahead.
01:17:01 That particular issue, Senior Supan Marlon, in terms of vehicles parked on the roadway.
01:17:08 Yes. For six years.
01:17:11 Right, so the first instance, it's important to properly weigh
01:17:15 the information you're receiving from the person who's making the report.
01:17:18 Wait.
01:17:19 So, that's the first thing that you want to consider.
01:17:21 After you look at the information that that person is giving,
01:17:24 that person's information will do several things.
01:17:28 And the several things that it should do is indicate to law enforcement
01:17:33 that there may be a contravention of the law some way.
01:17:37 Whether it be under the Motor Vehicle and Road Traffic Act,
01:17:41 whether it be under the regional cooperation, municipal cooperation,
01:17:46 from a ministry of health, the public health inspectors.
01:17:49 So, weigh the information and then use the most effective approach
01:17:53 to be able to engage the person.
01:17:55 Now, why I will say, Marlon, lean on the side of the police engaging the vehicle
01:17:59 in the first instance, before public health inspectors and other persons.
01:18:04 I will look at it where, if there's an inherent risk.
01:18:07 So, I wouldn't want to send a public health inspector where he's going to interact
01:18:11 with a vehicle that may be derelict, based on information.
01:18:14 I'm still looking at the safety issues for the police to engage.
01:18:17 It is safe, we know the owner, and now we call in the health inspector
01:18:21 and say, "Okay, join us to be able to fulfill the objective."
01:18:24 Gentlemen, let's go to our break. We're coming back.
01:18:26 Are you okay?
01:18:44 Knock off. The Orials belong to us.
01:18:46 No, they belong to whoever finds them first.
01:18:48 Get the Orial Transformers Limited Edition and awaken the beast.
01:18:52 New specs, new vision at Seaview Optical.
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01:19:00 Single Vision transition lenses in frame just 999.
01:19:03 So much more offers in store, only at Seaview Optical.
01:19:06 Affordable, I care for everyone.
01:19:10 The Prime Minister's Best Village Trophy Competition has prided itself on creating the space for talent.
01:19:15 The addition of diverse segments including the Clean and Beautify,
01:19:19 Village Olympics, Queen Competition, and the non-competitive Junior Best Village
01:19:24 have led to citizens getting their starts and honing their crafts.
01:19:27 Many have gone on to do great things locally and internationally.
01:19:31 Cultural icons, Marshall Montano and Singing Sandra,
01:19:34 Calypsolean, Karen Ashey, Netballer Marcia Dimsoy,
01:19:38 Parang Queen Daisy Voze, and Sprinter Ian Morris are just a few
01:19:42 who have been part of the Best Village experience.
01:19:45 In giving citizens the avenue to pursue their dreams,
01:19:48 the Prime Minister's Best Village Trophy Competition has remained true to its mission of empowering our people.
01:19:54 As we celebrate our 60th anniversary, the number of opportunities created,
01:19:59 careers boosted, and lives changed through participation remains impactful.
01:20:05 [Music]
01:20:10 But there are difficult decisions to make.
01:20:15 If we don't make those decisions, we are going to end up with somebody else making them for us.
01:20:21 [Music]
01:20:26 [Car engine]
01:20:30 [Music]
01:20:35 [Car engine]
01:20:40 [Music]
01:20:45 [Music]
01:20:50 [Music]
01:20:55 [Music]
01:20:58 I rode safe because life is precious.
01:21:01 Plus, I can't afford to pay another speeding ticket.
01:21:06 [Music]
01:21:08 A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
01:21:12 [Music]
01:21:21 What you putting on in the morning Mr. Hopkinson? What you putting on in the morning?
01:21:24 What I always do.
01:21:26 What you suited look like because I understand that you have the Prime Minister of this nation before you tomorrow.
01:21:33 You're like a man of shape, but before you.
01:21:35 Well, I understand that the goodly gentleman is going to join us on the morning edition tomorrow.
01:21:39 True.
01:21:40 He's going to be there for the two hours tomorrow morning on morning edition.
01:21:45 So look out for Prime Minister Dr. Keith Rowley.
01:21:47 I hope you're smiling.
01:21:49 What?
01:21:50 I hope you're smiling.
01:21:51 [Laughter]
01:21:53 [Indistinct]
01:21:56 Yeah, I just want to emphasize Marlon and Senior Soup the importance of this particular topic this afternoon.
01:22:00 I thought it was relevant and especially where Senior Soup on behalf of the police service you have been calling for increased efforts, engagement to members of the public.
01:22:09 In relation to this fight against crime and I thought it was important to ensure that the members of the public aware as to the particular law that governs them.
01:22:17 To protect them and also for the police to understand where the power lies in relation to ensuring that there's public safety and security and to ensure that the police is not prevented from executing their duties.
01:22:28 And secondly, before I leave the citizens with the peace and blessings of the mighty God, I know that emancipation is around the corner.
01:22:36 And I want to take this opportunity Marlon and Senior Soup.
01:22:39 As citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, when we are experiencing emancipation or we are enjoying that particular day or the build up to that particular day we are after.
01:22:49 Or maybe every time that we have the opportunity, I want to say that those who had more than us, those who had more than all of us have left.
01:23:01 They have gone, they have returned to their Lord.
01:23:03 They have left the earth and one day we shall follow as well.
01:23:07 So when we are thinking about emancipation, if we can get that into our thoughts so that it starts to basically put us in the best position to be able to receive life and to respond to the society that we are presently.
01:23:19 So I just wanted to leave that message with citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
01:23:22 - One day I will be coming here in my dashiki.
01:23:25 - Well, I expect that.
01:23:26 - Yeah, I come here in my dashiki.
01:23:28 The police doesn't, service doesn't have a uniform to dashiki the place so I'll have to bring one myself.
01:23:33 All right?
01:23:34 - But I will have to use half.
01:23:35 - Yeah, yeah, you have to.
01:23:37 (laughing)
01:23:38 - But I will have to use half of the dashiki.
01:23:41 Welcome all of you again, it's always a pleasure to have you here.
01:23:43 Member of the family, you come here and enlighten us with information.
01:23:47 We hope to see you next week, God willing.
01:23:49 Once we're here.
01:23:51 The TV6 News is up next.
01:23:52 - Yeah.
01:23:53 See you at six o'clock in the morning, bright and early.
01:23:56 - Here in the PM.
01:23:57 (laughing)
01:23:59 - Bye bye everybody.
01:24:01 (upbeat music)
01:24:04 (upbeat music)
01:24:09 (upbeat music)
01:24:14 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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