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00:00:47 Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
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00:02:30 [Music]
00:02:43 And a very special good afternoon Trinidad and Tobago and the rest of the world.
00:02:47 I'm Marlon Hopkins.
00:02:48 And as always, welcome to another program of Beyond the Tape on TV6.
00:02:52 With me is the Senior Superintendent of the ITF.
00:02:55 And also with us today, as he is here every Wednesday, we have attorney at law.
00:03:01 How did I have the gentleman name here? Officer Ali?
00:03:04 [Laughter]
00:03:06 Officer Ali is here with us.
00:03:08 Yeah, a very special good afternoon to all of you, you know.
00:03:11 And don't wonder why I'm waving this.
00:03:14 Tomorrow we are celebrating our 61st anniversary as an independent nation.
00:03:20 Yeah? You're not impressed. Apparently you're not impressed.
00:03:24 Because you see, Alexander, it is not enough to just wave this, you know.
00:03:29 Right? You have to live this.
00:03:31 Take me to the bases, my brother. Take me to the bases.
00:03:33 It is not that you're going to dress up tomorrow, get up early, and come down and go down to the Savannah.
00:03:38 And when you go there and you see it. And you feel patriotic for a moment.
00:03:41 And you wave and you're really, "Hey!" And then that's the end of it, you know.
00:03:45 That's it. That's it. Right?
00:03:47 This is about how we live too.
00:03:49 So a very special good afternoon to all of you.
00:03:51 In advance, happy Independence Day because we're not going to have a live show tomorrow.
00:03:57 So the next time we are going to see you is on Friday.
00:04:01 Fantastic Friday.
00:04:02 Officer Ali, say something good for us today.
00:04:04 Say something good, you know.
00:04:05 Good evening to you, Marlon. Good evening, Senior Sup.
00:04:06 Good evening to our family and beyond.
00:04:08 Citizen of Trinidad and Tobago and those who are viewing and listening, you know, out of the jurisdiction.
00:04:13 Marlon, let me share with that wave of the flag this afternoon.
00:04:19 And take this opportunity to join with you and Senior Sup, Alexander, and PB6 and the TTPS to wish Trinidad and Tobago a happy independence.
00:04:30 This afternoon, I intend to speak to the citizens in the context where, you know, let us hold on and appreciate exactly what independence really should mean to us.
00:04:38 And true independence, you know, when we look at the Constitution, apart from given or being afforded the authority to govern ourselves,
00:04:47 that Bill of Rights that we enjoy and which seems to be threatened by the criminal element,
00:04:53 I think it's important for us to hold strong to the red, white, and black.
00:04:58 And there are some things I would want to say as we go along in the program in terms of my wish or suggestions for the authorities that be,
00:05:05 for us to truly enjoy and really, you know, make use of what real true independence is all about.
00:05:12 So, Marlon, thanks for introducing me and Senior Sup.
00:05:15 Again, as usual, thanks for the opportunity to join you.
00:05:18 Sir.
00:05:19 Mr. Hopkinson, let me just say this.
00:05:22 It takes more than a man or a woman at any given time to acknowledge a country.
00:05:31 There must be no separation between the man or the woman.
00:05:35 Both of them must become us, we.
00:05:39 We as a people who would have seen and known what we went through and would have made decisions to change things or to become better.
00:05:49 If you look at the world today, I'm seeing some things happening in those African countries, you know.
00:05:54 Everywhere there are a number of issues.
00:05:57 A number of issues.
00:05:59 You know what we are doing here?
00:06:00 We are still holding strong to our beliefs, our values, and some of our morals.
00:06:07 We still hold strong to them.
00:06:09 And every day that we grow older, we should become wiser.
00:06:13 And as we get wiser, we become more pure in terms of how we do things and how we treat people and how we get together and how we advance.
00:06:23 Working together as a team, they say, "The teamwork makes the dream work."
00:06:28 The time has come for us to show that and not talk it.
00:06:32 Yeah?
00:06:33 So, when you raise this flag today, tomorrow, and for the rest of your life, if you are not thinking Trinbegonian, then put the flag down and raise whatever your feeling you need to raise.
00:06:45 Yeah?
00:06:46 Yesterday, I was preparing for an interview and I took the opportunity, and it was not the first time that I heard of it or I read it.
00:06:56 But I went into the first address, Independence Day address, from at that time, the first Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, Dr. Eric Williams.
00:07:09 And let me tell you something.
00:07:11 It was eye-opening for me because it was really not only about a speech about vision, but it also, it was like looking at a road map and telling you what to do and what not to do and the pros and cons and what I expect of you, what I expect this democracy to be.
00:07:34 And he spoke about a number of things, behavior, everything.
00:07:38 And I'm just saying, you know, sometimes we do have these nuggets of gold all over Trinidad and Tobago, and sometimes we are not aware of it.
00:07:51 And I don't know, again, because I like to speak about the school and going back to the school, and pieces of information such as this and presentations such as these, they should be inculcated in the curriculum.
00:08:08 You know, it provides a foundation for all of us.
00:08:12 And Marlon, I'm happy that you went there.
00:08:14 Just a bill on that position that you have taken.
00:08:16 When we look at our watchwords, discipline, tolerance, and production.
00:08:20 You know, sometimes it's there, but, you know, like it's silent.
00:08:25 And when, while the honorable late Prime Minister and the then government, or the cabinet as the case may be, would have looked at those particular words to represent us in terms of what, or how we are supposed to behave and conduct ourselves.
00:08:43 That discipline was a light word, but discipline goes to the context of a polling, in my view, the rule of law.
00:08:49 Of course.
00:08:50 So it's important for us to revisit when that watchword was used, discipline.
00:08:54 And then the other important word there as well is tolerance in terms of when we look at a society that seems to be where gangs are competing at each other, or persons are conducting themselves in home invasion and so forth.
00:09:07 It's important for us to look at that word, tolerant, again.
00:09:10 And then the last one, which is very important in terms of productivity, and I'll go straight now to both the public sector and the private sector.
00:09:17 I know the private sector is making their contribution, and I sincerely say on my first comment from an independence perspective is calling on the public sector to really drill down as to what independence means and help and assist the government to really move Trinidad and Tobago in the way that we should be moving.
00:09:34 In fairness to the government and the executive as well, they will create policy, they will give us laws, but it comes down now to the agents of the state to really take that fight to Trinidad and Tobago.
00:09:44 And in this context, it will always be the issue of crime, which is our number one issue.
00:09:48 So I want to agree with you. Tolerance, discipline, and production.
00:09:51 Let us pay attention.
00:09:52 I heard the former acting prime minister and the head of the Congress of the People on the interview this morning.
00:09:59 Yes, Mr. Dukkaran.
00:10:00 Yes, he spoke about looking at the watchwords and wondering whether in fact one of those words should be transformed to the word unity.
00:10:06 So again, when you see suggestions like this coming, the question is, are we at a time where we should now be thinking about constitutional reform, looking for new watchwords to be able to influence new generation and developing with modern times?
00:10:20 So I want to agree with you, Malan.
00:10:21 We need to look at this with some deep perspective and really looking at the values of the people of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:10:29 How can you speak about the watchwords when long ago that was given to us every single day in school?
00:10:40 We remember speaking to that, you know.
00:10:43 But now, if those in authority do not respect that, the watchwords, then how can they pass it on?
00:10:49 How can they introduce it when they themselves know nothing of it because they don't live it?
00:10:55 So then we are at a stage where we must have issues.
00:10:59 Because if these watchwords were structured there, the guidelines for how we should operate, and they are not introduced to our young ones, then sad is the portion.
00:11:10 So whether you are red, yellow, blue, green, black, whatever color, but let me tell you something.
00:11:19 That Independence Day message, it is a beautiful message.
00:11:23 It is a beautiful document.
00:11:25 And if you have a child and that child has attained the age where that child can read and understand and so on, expose your child to that document.
00:11:33 Because let me tell you something, that document could be a life-changing document for that individual.
00:11:41 Believe me.
00:11:42 Here is what, we are here early today. We started at 4.40. We are going on till what time?
00:11:47 5.44. So we only have less than an hour now.
00:11:54 Alright, so let's get right into the program.
00:11:57 Okay. Alright.
00:12:02 You want that?
00:12:03 There was an incident, yeah?
00:12:04 Well, let us hold for that. Let's deal with some other things. We have some like robberies and so on.
00:12:08 Go ahead.
00:12:09 Let us deal with that first.
00:12:10 Go ahead.
00:12:11 Jump into it early. Alright.
00:12:15 Well, someone asked me to have a discussion about Caledonia.
00:12:19 Let me just say this. Caledonia, you, I spoke to you before and I will say this again.
00:12:26 I realize that you got somewhat of an ease in the murders with respect to what was happening there with the death of that guy who engaged law enforcement and he died.
00:12:40 It is not the end of Caledonia. You see, every time that we give you an option to treat with your situation, you run off on us. Caledonia.
00:12:50 When I said yesterday or the day before, I said persons are in Caledonia, moving in Caledonia.
00:12:57 Hey, you live in here? And as I say yes, you say, well, you are not living here again.
00:13:01 And moving out persons out of their homes? No, Mr. Hopkinson.
00:13:04 It is happening in Caledonia. You understand what I feel and all these areas where persons are coming out from the jail system and entering persons' home, have them living in fear.
00:13:16 Caledonia, do you intend to take that again?
00:13:19 You see, there's a history there. There's a history in Caledonia for years.
00:13:22 The same old, same old, same old thing.
00:13:26 New players in the game, but the same behavior.
00:13:29 And you sit there and you watch from a distance, do nothing. You're afraid.
00:13:36 But while you're so afraid, your community continues to reap the reward of death and gunshots over and over and over.
00:13:49 Caledonia, when last the people in Caledonia came out, I will give you one day, a Saturday evening, and say, let's talk.
00:13:57 Let's have a conversation. You can't come outside. You know why?
00:14:01 Because when the persons with the firearms were living and being among you, you were all right in it, you know.
00:14:10 But it's when the firearm turned a different direction now and coming back at you and your children, all hell broke loose.
00:14:17 So while you're talking about peace in Caledonia, if you want peace, you have to change your mindset and stop accepting what you consider now the norm,
00:14:28 which is persons must come in, gunshot must happen, persons must die, and that's it.
00:14:36 You have an option to treat with it.
00:14:39 The Northeastern Division police officers are on standby for your assistance.
00:14:43 Whenever the gunshots happen in Caledonia, there's a moment of silence.
00:14:48 Whenever the police officers do something in the area which is required, which is, when they dealt with it according to the use of force policy,
00:14:59 where persons were on social media talking all kind of gangster talk with firearms,
00:15:04 persons have pending matters for gun-related offenses and planning to kill another man the night before,
00:15:13 after they would have tried to execute the prison officer, everybody has things to say.
00:15:18 "Oh, well, you know, the man was running and..."
00:15:21 Listen, before I say anymore, some of you all are contributing to your community and the service provided to your community, you know, you, some of you all.
00:15:35 And I'm seeing that. And there's officers who are trying to encourage the persons to treat with it differently.
00:15:43 Yesterday, properly, I told them, I said, "In Komsomol, Kompi Komsom village, what? Village Komsom Street, is it? Village Komsom Street."
00:15:54 Police officers going to execute a situation, they take possession persons, eh?
00:16:01 When the police are leaving, they're firing shots at the police vehicle and mashing up some glass.
00:16:07 I told them that that person who would have done that should be uprooted in that area and moved.
00:16:15 Now, what is going to happen, Komsomol, when you, again, somebody in the village is shot,
00:16:22 I have seen police officers feeding siren, blazing, coming up the hill to go into the area there to pick up persons, to take them to the hospital.
00:16:32 Careful what you sow, that you shall reap, eh?
00:16:37 Because if it is that we are coming there to lend assistance to you when gunmen creep in on you,
00:16:42 and you're behaving so with law enforcement when they come to do legitimate duties, careful now.
00:16:49 Careful, the game change on you, because you would have changed the game.
00:16:55 I want to get Officer Ali's perspective on that incident where it is alleged that police trying to make an arrest in Mova and they were shot at.
00:17:06 Well, Marlon, that's a very serious issue.
00:17:09 If our police officers are going to execute a legitimate public function to either prevent crime or detect crime, and they've been shot at,
00:17:17 the only advice I can give the police here and publicly is to be proportional in terms of the force that you need to administer in order to, one, prevent and secure yourself and your officers,
00:17:30 and to be able to perform your function.
00:17:32 So that is my direct advice to them.
00:17:35 So if the criminal element is inclined to use deadly force to the police, my only advice is for the police to respond accordingly.
00:17:44 But in terms of what Senior Superintendent Alexander just said as well, I want members of the public to understand that when the persons are shooting at the police vehicle,
00:17:53 and there's damages to the police vehicle, I want the members of the public to view it as that's not the police vehicle, that is your vehicle.
00:18:00 That is your vehicle.
00:18:01 So look at it as not an act of contravention directed to the police, but it's a contravention against all of us, police and the citizenry.
00:18:12 And the second thing I want to indicate as well is that it was very disheartening in Malang to demonstrate that if we are, and I said it on the last program in your absence,
00:18:20 that if we are not deliberate in our attempts and fluid in our attempts to deal with crime, I saw just recently that even the public utilities,
00:18:29 when they need to go in to be able to deal with electricity issues and water issues, which are the important utilities for survival and existence,
00:18:39 that crime is now causing an issue, a hindrance in terms of the delivery of services.
00:18:45 So again, another example, we had the schools issue before, we see utilities now, Trinidad and Tobago, we are hours away from our 61st independence.
00:18:56 If we want something to hold on to, let us hold on as a nation and push back before there are other sectors of our society that continue to feel the decay
00:19:07 and the impact where crime is concerned, but I must also balance it, Senior Superintendent.
00:19:13 I cannot sit here knowing that the Commissioner of Police and the Executive is doing some very deep thinking as we speak,
00:19:19 and hopefully we will be able to see some adjustments being made and positive response in relation to those criminal elements.
00:19:26 So I have to just balance the equation with that to keep the strategies fluid.
00:19:30 Alright, gentlemen, we must go to a very short break. We are coming back.
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