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00:00:33 Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
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00:00:53 [Music]
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00:01:28 And good afternoon.
00:01:37 You hear that Jackie?
00:01:38 You like the afternoon?
00:01:39 Good afternoon.
00:01:40 Or should I go back in my little voice?
00:01:42 Good afternoon, Trent and Tobago.
00:01:44 Welcome to Beyond the Tape on TV6.
00:01:47 It's your own Struling.
00:01:48 I'm a love voice.
00:01:49 However, not here really to do all this love thing today.
00:01:54 Let me say good afternoon to all the persons who called yesterday
00:01:58 and commend Beyond the Tape for the effort that we made yesterday
00:02:04 and the information that we brought to you.
00:02:06 It's something we do every day, Monday to Friday.
00:02:10 And today we have an average version.
00:02:12 However, we'll be here for the next hour.
00:02:14 One hour because we want persons to have the CPL.
00:02:18 Is it?
00:02:19 The CPL.
00:02:20 All right?
00:02:22 So after this is the news, right, Miss Jackie?
00:02:23 And then after the news, the CPL.
00:02:26 All right?
00:02:28 So once again, for those who have inquisitive minds,
00:02:31 could sit back, relax, and allow law enforcement to explain what is happening.
00:02:36 Feel free to call the numbers and ask any question that you want to
00:02:41 as it relates to law enforcement.
00:02:43 There are some things that we will be able to answer.
00:02:45 Some things have to remain close to our chest.
00:02:47 And some things we'll be able to share with you.
00:02:50 This evening, as every Wednesday evening,
00:02:54 no exception today, I have with me, co-hosting with me,
00:02:58 because you know, the media has always run out on law enforcement
00:03:03 and allow us to be alone because they cannot handle the strain,
00:03:07 the stress of members of the public asking questions that they cannot answer.
00:03:10 So they run off.
00:03:12 So Marlon Hopkinson ran off.
00:03:14 So you know what I did?
00:03:17 I brought my friend and colleague, Corporal Ali, with me this evening.
00:03:23 Good evening, Corporal Ali. Good afternoon.
00:03:25 Well, good evening to you, Senior Superintendent,
00:03:27 and good evening to family on Biondi Tape,
00:03:29 and most importantly, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
00:03:32 and persons who are listening and viewing in other parts of the world.
00:03:36 First, let me begin this afternoon, Senior Superintendent,
00:03:39 by sharing a commendation and acknowledging the resilience that you showed yesterday.
00:03:46 I think that, you know, single-handedly managing the program with the producer,
00:03:53 I think that ought to be identified and commended this afternoon.
00:03:57 I think that it was a job well done from the feedback I got from other persons
00:04:02 who were giving me feedback on the program yesterday.
00:04:05 So I want to just begin with that to share that commendation with you
00:04:08 for the resilience that you showed yesterday.
00:04:10 Really protecting and serving with professionalism, respect,
00:04:14 integrity, dignity, and excellence yesterday.
00:04:16 So I just want to say that to you and to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
00:04:20 and over the last couple of days into the weekend.
00:04:24 I know it has not been some of the best days in terms of reading the news,
00:04:28 looking at the state of affairs, and I want to again, Senior Superintendent,
00:04:32 this afternoon, remind all of us, and I say all of us,
00:04:35 that if we are not paying attention and paying attention in a way to restore
00:04:41 public order quickly, you will find that many different facets of our society
00:04:48 will be impacted detrimentally by the escalation in criminal activities.
00:04:54 And I just want to make an example.
00:04:56 On yesterday's program, I think it was that you show someone making some
00:05:01 statements as to the present state of affairs in Kelly, St. Helena,
00:05:05 where businesses are closing, and it seems to be a tongue that seems to have been abandoned.
00:05:10 True criminal element, and that is something that we need to stop.
00:05:13 I mean, it's not immediately and just to go back a few months when the school
00:05:18 system will have been affected is just an example to show that if we are not
00:05:22 taking control of crime quickly, you'll find that many different facets of society
00:05:26 will be affected.
00:05:27 So citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, all the law enforcement officials,
00:05:31 the three institutions of the state, the executive, the legislature,
00:05:34 and the judiciary.
00:05:36 This is our business.
00:05:38 This is our country, and let us find it within ourselves to quickly restore
00:05:43 public order in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:05:45 Does the situation not give us gas to go forward, to go harder, go longer,
00:05:52 when persons are so affected and know that they could be so affected by what is
00:05:58 happening? Doesn't that give law enforcement the extra drive,
00:06:01 someone to go forward and produce more than ever?
00:06:04 Excellent question, and I think that when you're seeing the level of lawlessness
00:06:11 and you have just, you know, I don't even want to reflect on the statistics,
00:06:14 but 13 murders in four days, which was reported in the media,
00:06:17 and based on the statistics, that in itself should really register with law
00:06:22 enforcement that we need to step up.
00:06:24 And we are in a position where the society, we should be pulling the society
00:06:31 behind us.
00:06:32 So we are the constitutional authority, as I always said.
00:06:35 Yes, there are other stakeholders who have their responsibility,
00:06:37 but if we are all watching each other or glancing at each other,
00:06:41 no one is stepping forward, then we all will be at the beginning of the race,
00:06:46 and no one is actually running the race.
00:06:48 So I think it's an important question, Senior Subedar,
00:06:50 I think that should encourage us to step out and lead the other arms of law
00:06:54 enforcement and the citizenry to really fight back lawfully,
00:06:58 to regain, according to your statements,
00:07:01 at least the streets of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:07:03 And that is what we need.
00:07:05 But let me, someone, you've been here for the greater part of nine,
00:07:12 almost 10 months already?
00:07:14 Yeah, just last week I recognized in my analysis that I was just about one year,
00:07:20 so 12 months.
00:07:21 Already?
00:07:22 Yes, Senior Subedar.
00:07:23 You've been here for a year?
00:07:24 Excellent.
00:07:25 Well, you know something, I was asked a question and I said,
00:07:30 "Today is a good day to ask you," because they wanted to know why Corporal
00:07:36 Alley is here representing the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service in a legal
00:07:42 capacity.
00:07:44 And I told them, I said, "Well, Mr. Alley is qualified and he has been called
00:07:50 to the bar, and he went to the bar."
00:07:54 And they said, "Well, what is Corporal Alley's qualifications?"
00:08:00 And I started off by saying this, and I represented you, though.
00:08:03 I said, "And tell me if I'm right.
00:08:06 Corporal Alley has a distinction in law.
00:08:11 Am I wrong or am I right?"
00:08:12 Just a qualified, have a master's in law with distinction from the
00:08:16 University of New West Indies.
00:08:17 Sorry, sir, sorry.
00:08:18 You have a master's in law with distinction.
00:08:21 All right, because persons want to know to what authority you could bring
00:08:25 someone here, Alexander, and have him represent the Trinidad and Tobago
00:08:28 Police Service.
00:08:29 So you heard it for yourself.
00:08:30 He has a master in law with distinction.
00:08:33 May I also say, Senior Superintendent, and also answer the persons who may be
00:08:36 asking you those questions, I am duly admitted to the bar, the legal bar I'm
00:08:41 speaking about, in the Trinidad and Tobago legal profession.
00:08:46 So I have audience before the High Court.
00:08:48 I have the authority to advise.
00:08:50 I have the authority to charge fees.
00:08:52 I am a duly appointed attorney at law and legal officer in ETTPS with the
00:08:56 jurisdiction to advise any office that may call upon my services.
00:09:04 Am I to start trembling here?
00:09:07 I wouldn't say the wrong thing, and I'm glad that you were able to bring
00:09:11 all that this evening because the public was asking, and I think today is
00:09:14 about the best day.
00:09:15 Now, we have a number of issues on the program today, but, Ms.
00:09:19 McKeel, I want to bring in very early that situation in South.
00:09:24 And let me say this.
00:09:26 For those who don't know, those who don't understand, those who don't read,
00:09:34 and sometimes what you read you cannot properly interpret, a domestic
00:09:40 violence situation -- I will let my legal officer bring it in here -- a
00:09:44 domestic violence situation will always be a challenge for someone who is
00:09:51 applying for a firearm, straight out of the bag, because it is within this
00:09:57 home or within this relationship this firearm is going to be circulating,
00:10:02 really, in the true sense of the word, in and out of the home, as the case
00:10:05 may be.
00:10:06 So if I know you have violent tendencies and you're applying for a
00:10:13 firearm, and then there are issues coming up, whether by video or
00:10:18 otherwise, I will be very hesitant to issue you with that.
00:10:23 And if, however, you already have one in your possession, then that takes
00:10:29 me to a different level.
00:10:30 What do you think, Kapolani?
00:10:32 I think that the area in relation to firearms, senior superintendent, we
00:10:37 have spoken on this program already, and I will begin by indicating that
00:10:42 when you are making an application for a firearm user's license, one of the
00:10:47 requirements is to ensure that your character and you are a person with
00:10:54 good habits and someone who upholds the rule of law and not involved in a
00:11:01 breach of the peace, as minimum.
00:11:03 So immediately in the investigation of an application for FUL, those are
00:11:08 very fundamental issues, and there are other issues to look at.
00:11:10 Importantly as well, if you are in a relationship, it's important for you
00:11:14 to be interviewing the spouse or the common law wife to ensure that that
00:11:18 person feels comfortable with you being issued with a firearm user's
00:11:22 license.
00:11:23 And I went as far to say that if, perchance, that the firearm was granted
00:11:27 to the individual and then subsequently the firearm, the person got married
00:11:31 or is in a common law relationship, when the time for paying license, it
00:11:34 doesn't stop the police officer from using a cautious step and still
00:11:39 interviewing the common law wife or the significant other to ensure that
00:11:45 that person continues to be of good character.
00:11:47 So I want to agree with you that it's a very serious issue, and firearm in
00:11:52 itself is deadly force, and once a person is displaying the propensity for
00:11:56 violence or to breach the peace, that ought to be considered very, very
00:12:00 seriously.
00:12:01 Now, members of the public are saying, and this is sometimes, you know,
00:12:05 some of them, to be honest, they think like sometimes chickens.
00:12:14 You put something out there and they pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, pick,
00:12:17 pick, and they pick until everybody is filled, and sometimes they don't
00:12:22 even know what they're eating.
00:12:23 And members of the public is doing this, they're saying, well, what
00:12:26 firearms have to do with what happened there?
00:12:29 Because they don't understand.
00:12:30 They don't understand what firearms have to do with what happened there and
00:12:33 the violence and all of that, and they don't understand what the
00:12:36 investigator must unearth at times in order to get the best person, to give
00:12:43 the best person.
00:12:44 The commissioner of police signing on an FUL must be granted to the best
00:12:48 person, the most qualified person, that person's of good character and all
00:12:52 of that.
00:12:53 So let's say this situation here, this man, this man is in possession of a
00:13:00 firearm.
00:13:01 We're just saying, members of the public, we didn't say that he is.
00:13:04 What is the responsibility now that we are seeing this?
00:13:08 What is the responsibility of law enforcement?
00:13:12 Well, without going too much into the video, because I know that may be,
00:13:17 that may just be probably part of the video, there may be other things to
00:13:19 consider.
00:13:20 But what I will say, I'm keeping to the minimum in terms of our standing
00:13:24 orders.
00:13:25 Our standing orders clearly identify that once there's a breach of the peace
00:13:30 or there's a propensity for violence, and this particular instance, if per
00:13:35 chance that person is the FUL holder, we should be thinking prevention
00:13:40 immediately.
00:13:41 Because your person already, by just virtue of the video, would have been
00:13:44 exhibiting some level of violence.
00:13:47 So in that context, law enforcement should be using a proactive approach
00:13:51 and ensuring that that firearm is secure so that there's no avenue for that
00:13:57 firearm to be used in any further acts of violence in relation to that
00:14:01 individual until the situation is properly investigated, properly
00:14:04 ventilated, until the chips fall where they're supposed to be.
00:14:07 All right.
00:14:08 Over here.
00:14:10 We are, Jackie, we're looking at, oh, it's 358, Miss Jackie.
00:14:15 Miss Jackie, number 54, you're guilty with a cause.
00:14:18 All right.
00:14:19 So in other words, what you're saying is that the police investigator must
00:14:24 go deep into the investigation and unearth a lot of things.
00:14:27 So this has nothing to do with anything.
00:14:30 This is something personal with law enforcement.
00:14:32 The policies remain the policies, the standing orders are the standing
00:14:35 orders, as the case may be.
00:14:37 And if somebody breached the peace, then we must take a particular direction
00:14:42 as it relates to the owner of a firearm or the applicant of a firearm.
00:14:46 And that's correct.
00:14:48 And I mean, when you're talking about matters that may be resembling
00:14:51 domestic violence, that is so important as well.
00:14:53 If you look at the firearms act, there's a relationship with persons who
00:14:56 may be charged in relation to offenses under the domestic violence act,
00:15:00 that there's a particular period that those persons have to wait before
00:15:03 they apply for consideration again.
00:15:05 So taking everything into consideration, and just using this as an example,
00:15:10 that the police officers who are called upon to investigate this matter
00:15:13 should investigate this matter thoroughly, which will include disarming
00:15:18 the individual if that individual is in fact in possession of an illegal
00:15:21 firearm, and that person who may be the holder of FUL, they should not
00:15:26 look at it as something that is punitive.
00:15:28 They should look at it as something that is actually protecting them
00:15:31 from actually using it in the heat of things that they may be involved in,
00:15:36 what, a murder.
00:15:37 So it's also to protect them and balance the interests between both
00:15:41 parties so that the matters can be dealt with properly, and there can be
00:15:44 a mutual resolution of the issues surrounding them after the completion
00:15:50 of the investigation.
00:15:51 All right.
00:15:52 Also, members of the public was asking, for instance, if the victim --
00:15:57 and this is a question I always had for you -- if a victim, whether the
00:16:04 person is a victim of robbery, rape, whatever, and this victim has a
00:16:10 responsibility and fails to carry out that responsibility, how is this
00:16:17 viewed by persons, legal persons with legal minds, or even law enforcement?
00:16:25 Well, Senior Sup, when you have a virtual complainant who may be a
00:16:28 victim of crime, while it's a voluntary process in terms of whether they
00:16:32 want to initiate criminal proceedings, what we want the victims to
00:16:36 understand and appreciate is that you bringing that matter to the police
00:16:41 for investigation promotes the administration of justice.
00:16:45 Secondly, it may not be the first time that that person may be intended to
00:16:50 commit such an act, or if you do not take the necessary steps to get law
00:16:54 enforcement involved, you may not have the opportunity to rehabilitate that
00:16:57 individual either, or the group of individuals.
00:17:00 So in other words, what you're saying is that you could have been victim
00:17:04 number 14 to him, 15, 16, 17, or 18, or 19 to him, because all the rest of
00:17:10 persons did exactly what you did and failed to report the individual.
00:17:14 I love the example that you're giving, that if we are going in the context
00:17:17 where someone commits a crime, nobody reports it, and they continue.
00:17:21 What are you doing with that criminal element?
00:17:23 That criminal element gets stronger, and may I say, Senior Sup, that I
00:17:28 was listening last week, and when you showed the St. Helena ICU, if persons
00:17:32 are not coming forward, what you will have?
00:17:34 You will have the situation not being dealt with.
00:17:36 You're not opening the avenue for law enforcement to get involved.
00:17:39 So the person feels comfortable to continue to prey on the victims.
00:17:45 Excellent.
00:17:46 Let us go to a short break, and when we come back, feel free again to call
00:17:50 623-1711, extension 1992, 1993, 1996, and 1997.
00:17:59 We go to a short break, and when we come back, we'll have more discussion
00:18:03 on what is presently taking place in China.
00:18:06 Let's take a break.
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00:19:24 All the Republic Ranks CTL Action is live and exclusive on CCN TV6.
00:19:30 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:19:40 Today, members of the public, earlier today, there was an incident at the
00:19:47 HDC compound on South Quay, Port of Spain.
00:19:54 Information that a man walked in on the inside with a cutlass and dealt a man
00:20:00 several chops.
00:20:04 About the body, there was a fracas on the inside as this man armed with
00:20:10 firearm, sorry, armed with his cutlass, entered the compound.
00:20:18 You saw the man armed with the cutlass?
00:20:20 He's inside of the HDC.
00:20:24 Bring him back again, Ms. Jackie, and let's go up and see the cutlass in his
00:20:28 hands, a tree line.
00:20:31 Wait for it.
00:20:35 You see that?
00:20:36 Yeah.
00:20:37 All right.
00:20:38 Members of the public, this took place in HDC.
00:20:41 Now, a number of questions must be asked, a number of questions, because I
00:20:47 have seen it before where persons enter that compound, and they are in fact
00:20:53 checked on entry.
00:20:57 There's a scanner together with security officers, and you know why this
00:21:03 disturbs me somewhat?
00:21:05 Because we have citizens on the inside.
00:21:13 We have persons holding certain type of office on the inside.
00:21:19 So when these things happen, we must take a different approach or look at the
00:21:24 approach that we are using now and change it somewhat to accommodate
00:21:28 situations like this.
00:21:30 Now, it's often these situations I often come on this program and I say, you
00:21:34 know what?
00:21:35 We have this tendency, Trinbagonians, that would never happen by us, and that
00:21:40 will never happen to me until we see after the incident, men ran off, jumped
00:21:47 into a vehicle, and sped off.
00:21:54 Officers from the interagency task force, the Port of Spain task force and
00:21:59 the government's came.
00:22:01 This was the end result.
00:22:03 A man jumped.
00:22:10 So, as you see, you need to restructure that security network there because I
00:22:17 am saying that was too easy.
00:22:20 If that was a firearm, the consequences might have been different.
00:22:26 So we need to find out what happened there.
00:22:29 It's either two things.
00:22:30 If persons are coming in from the rear undetected, well, then something is
00:22:34 wrong.
00:22:35 It makes no sense having security on the inside.
00:22:38 To the front door, if persons are coming through the back.
00:22:42 So we have to design something different in order to capture any person, any
00:22:49 person, any person entering that building, whether employee or not.
00:22:57 Corporal Ali, what do you think?
00:22:59 Well, Senior Superintendent, all I will say is that that particular situation
00:23:02 lends support to my introductory remarks.
00:23:05 That when or if we allow that decay in public order, persons will feel that
00:23:11 they can do anything.
00:23:13 So here you're seeing someone entering a public place, a place where members
00:23:18 of the public do business on a daily basis, and then when he enters the place
00:23:21 with an offensive weapon, actually inflicted some level of harm.
00:23:26 The medical will determine what is the degree of harm.
00:23:28 But it did, in fact, administer harm.
00:23:30 So the question is, again, it supports the fact that if we do not get a grip
00:23:34 quickly on this decay of public order, then every aspect of society will feel
00:23:43 the brunt of the lawlessness.
00:23:45 Are we coming down too hard on members of the public, or are members of the
00:23:51 public coming too hard on law enforcement?
00:23:53 Why I ask you that.
00:23:56 Where is the police?
00:23:57 Where was the police?
00:23:58 That is the question normally asked on a daily basis.
00:24:02 Where was the police?
00:24:04 But my answer to that is I cannot be at any location or locations at the same time.
00:24:11 Persons need to know that they, too, have responsibility, and they must do their job.
00:24:16 That whole idea of protection doesn't lie wholly and solely on us, you know,
00:24:23 because some institution would have designed systems and personnel to treat with that.
00:24:30 So then you should ask, did the police respond?
00:24:33 And I would say, quickly, what happens next?
00:24:37 The investigation will continue, and we will treat with the person when that time comes.
00:24:43 Yeah?
00:24:44 But probably the problem to many--
00:24:45 Can I just say something, First Senior Superintendent?
00:24:47 It's also important in that matter that while we understand that the police cannot be
00:24:51 everywhere, right, and while we recognize that there may be internal security at the
00:24:56 agency to preserve law and order, it's important to investigate that matter to ascertain
00:25:01 whether, in fact, that has been an ongoing matter with the alleged offender because it
00:25:07 may well reveal that that alleged offender have shown the tendency or the propensity
00:25:12 for violence previously, and maybe it was not properly investigated by the HDC or the
00:25:17 agency didn't bring it to the attention of the police, or vice versa.
00:25:20 Let me go to the extent where maybe the police did not see that there was eminent
00:25:25 violence on the part of that alleged offender.
00:25:28 So this is a perfect example now to start looking at these things to the depth to understand
00:25:32 whether, in fact, this could have been prevented based on the investigations.
00:25:35 All right, excellent.
00:25:37 And, Ms. Jackie, then we went to the beat them.
00:25:41 Now, again, you know, it's amazing how some persons would sit all day in front of their
00:25:47 Facebook or social media page or device and make some comments on things they just
00:25:55 barely know the facts about.
00:25:58 It's just amazing, you know, like I get a call to the, "Alexander, you saw that?
00:26:01 You saw that?
00:26:02 The man have one leg, and look the police moving the man.
00:26:04 The man could hardly walk," and all of that.
00:26:07 And let me share this with members of the public.
00:26:12 Law enforcement went into an area looking for a particular individual.
00:26:15 As soon as the individual saw law enforcement, he scratched out.
00:26:20 For those who doesn't know what that means, in the streets, he ran.
00:26:23 He dashed out.
00:26:26 All right?
00:26:28 While he's there, this individual started to tell law enforcement a lot of things, including
00:26:43 their parents, especially their mother's reproductive system.
00:26:51 They spoke to that.
00:26:53 So, the officers, in their wisdom, dealt with the first situation where they went looking
00:26:58 for the man who scratched out, and then, listening to what we say on this program time and time
00:27:04 again, they returned to deal with the individual who was making certain statements to inform
00:27:12 him that we are not or no longer tolerating that type of behavior.
00:27:19 Because you start with your mouth, and then start to pelt stones with your hands and all
00:27:23 these things, and we are not.
00:27:26 We are no longer accepting that behavior.
00:27:28 Whether your foot is broken, your mouth should have been hushed.
00:27:32 Your mouth should have had plaster bars instead of your feet.
00:27:35 Because it seems that your mouth and your intention, you're psyching up others to behave
00:27:41 in a particular way.
00:27:43 Bag him and put him in the vehicle and spit off, put him before the court for his mouth.
00:27:52 We have seen this over and over and over, and we saw the behavior of the police leaving
00:27:58 persons and waving to them, and they are saying all different type of things.
00:28:03 Nice man.
00:28:04 You see that?
00:28:06 Sometimes we have no choice.
00:28:09 Back up.
00:28:11 All you can take all the camera, all the blue phone and all kind of thing, all you can take
00:28:14 out and film all day.
00:28:16 And when all the time, press pause and press again.
00:28:21 All your behavior is to sicken them.
00:28:25 Always involve in law enforcement for the wrong things.
00:28:29 And when persons die in the Asian streets, all the police, all the take him up now, take
00:28:33 him up and carry him in the vehicle, put him in and drop him in the hospital and all these
00:28:36 type of things.
00:28:37 But when things go a different kind of way, this is your behavior.
00:28:42 The actions of the police, Corporal Allen.
00:28:45 Well, I said previously on this program, Senior Superintendent, once the police officers have
00:28:49 proper jurisdiction on a matter, and jurisdiction meaning that there's a breach of the peace
00:28:53 that requires the police to intervene.
00:28:57 Once persons are conducting themselves to hinder the police actions, whether it be by obstruction,
00:29:04 whether it be by threats to impede the police officer in the execution of his duties, I
00:29:08 have called candidly on police officers to use the law and use the protection that are
00:29:16 available to them.
00:29:17 And do not hesitate to use the law in protection of performing the public role and functions.
00:29:23 So I want to agree with you that once the police have jurisdiction on a matter, once
00:29:27 there is a breach of the peace and the police is invoked, once persons are inclined to obstruct,
00:29:33 hinder, threaten, there's very clear express laws and I'm calling the police officers to
00:29:39 deal with it so that members of the public will appreciate that the police is not doing
00:29:43 their individual duty.
00:29:45 They're doing a duty for the protection in the public's interest and for the protection
00:29:50 of the public's interest and not their own interest.
00:29:53 Excellent.
00:29:54 I want you to take a look at this, Corporal Allen.
00:29:57 I've been talking about this for years and it continues.
00:30:03 Let us take a look at the video and then you will share my opinion on what I'm speaking
00:30:08 about.
00:30:09 Take a look at this.
00:30:10 This is Maloney.
00:30:11 [Video playing]
00:30:23 That's obscene.
00:30:24 That's the obscene.
00:30:25 I'm telling you to hear.
00:30:27 The obscene was tight.
00:30:29 [Video playing]
00:30:44 Members of the public, we have been seeing this all over the place.
00:30:48 Corporal Allen, whenever this happens, law-abiding citizens look at it and some of them traumatize
00:30:55 as a result of what they see because this is another situation where persons are armed
00:30:59 with firearms and exposing what they are about to do to who and what they could do.
00:31:07 Do we have enough legislation available to us to stifle this behavior from our citizens?
00:31:15 I think that's a great question and it's an excellent area to look into from a context
00:31:20 of legislative reform when persons are brandishing objects which appear to be firearms.
00:31:25 Now, when you look at particular videos like that, and I don't want to divulge too much
00:31:31 in relation to how the TTPS will deal with that, but there are areas that we can take
00:31:36 action in relation to dealing with that.
00:31:38 There have been matters or cases in the past that I've advised to take particular steps
00:31:43 in relation to investigate those matters, but like in anything else, there's always
00:31:47 room for law reform to be able to treat it, to prohibit those sort of conduct.
00:31:51 But while those conducts are prevailing, there are steps that law enforcement could take
00:31:55 in order to make a detection and prosecute those persons in relation to those issues.
00:32:00 If you were to recommend, we have a couple of minutes again, if you were to recommend
00:32:06 a penalty for that type of behavior, because let's just say we're looking at your child.
00:32:12 You're looking at it, "Hey, this one have a gun.
00:32:15 You're frightened, and you live not too far from us.
00:32:17 You're frightened.
00:32:18 You don't want to go to school.
00:32:19 You don't want to come outside."
00:32:20 What about granny who went through a whole year's comfortable, and now she's relaxing,
00:32:26 and she knows that this man, she has seen this man before?
00:32:29 When you put yourself out there like that, what do you think the penalty for such an
00:32:34 action should be because you're really traumatizing the public in a certain type of way?
00:32:38 Well, I love the stakeholders that you have identified that may be impacted by it.
00:32:41 You're looking at the old age.
00:32:42 You're looking at the youth.
00:32:43 I think that that is sufficient justification to apply a penalty that will deter those sort
00:32:51 of conduct.
00:32:52 I don't want to say a number of years or associated fine.
00:32:56 But it's the youth that's impacted on.
00:32:58 That's correct, because of the public interest in prohibiting those sort of conduct.
00:33:02 When you see those sort of conduct as well, Senior Superintendent, it's a clear indication
00:33:05 that it is promoting violence, and not only promoting violence.
00:33:09 I don't know if the individuals also appreciate that the persons that they are sending threats
00:33:13 to, it doesn't stop persons responding to them.
00:33:16 So, you can easily find that after a video like that, tomorrow you wake up and there's
00:33:20 a murder.
00:33:21 But it already happened for the week with Twinwood.
00:33:24 Twinwood have gone on social media and made some statements, some serious statements,
00:33:29 and next thing you know, he was shot dead.
00:33:31 And that's the point I'm making.
00:33:33 So, I don't know if persons really appreciate that when they publish a video, that they
00:33:37 see it as quote-unquote a pips.
00:33:39 But I don't know if they really understand that you are now provoking persons to breach
00:33:45 the peace by your conduct.
00:33:47 So, we can look at it in a very wide context.
00:33:50 One, pass particular laws to prohibit that, to deter that.
00:33:54 Yes, there are steps we can take to investigate that, and hopefully get necessary evidence
00:33:59 to prosecute persons.
00:34:00 But in the absence of that, persons have to be responsible to appreciate that when they
00:34:05 are conducting themselves, and I don't want to classify it with a seditious intention
00:34:09 or seditious act, but they are also provoking persons to breach the peace.
00:34:14 And a breach of the peace may be what?
00:34:16 A murder.
00:34:17 And you have just identified that there may have been a similar situation that resulted
00:34:21 in a murder recently.
00:34:22 So, looking at it in a 360, that should be a prohibited conduct, both from a self-correction
00:34:29 exercise and both from a law reform exercise.
00:34:32 Let's go to a short break, but let me just add to this and you'll answer after the break.
00:34:37 Do you see this type of behavior by our citizens, posing with guns and all these things and
00:34:41 firing off?
00:34:43 Is that considered, if the laws was present here, some type of domestic terrorism?
00:34:49 But that's after the break.
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00:36:01 The reason I ask the question is because if someone like that, you just saw that individual
00:36:14 there, if you are waiting on the maxi stand, and that person enters the same maxi that
00:36:20 you're in, that you are in, chances are persons are going to run out because they are, in
00:36:26 fact, engaging what could turn out to be an explosive situation because of what he did
00:36:31 and the threats that he made via the social media.
00:36:33 So that's what I was looking at, that domestic situation in Trinidad and Tobago because you
00:36:39 are putting the citizens under so much pressure just by your mere existence because of what
00:36:43 you would have done on your social media.
00:36:45 I wouldn't go to consider it any extent of terrorism as yet, Senior Supreme.
00:36:51 If you look at the Anti-Terrorism Act, it will call for actions that actually intended
00:36:56 to compel a government to act in order to advance a political, ideological, and so forth.
00:37:02 So I would want to remain in the context where those activities will be heavily grounded
00:37:08 in the anti-gang legislation where it's more promoting that gang violence as opposed to
00:37:15 compelling a government.
00:37:16 But may I say as well is that we need to look at those activities very carefully because
00:37:22 what you can find is that persons may feel strong, may wake up a morning and feel okay
00:37:27 they have now have control over the streets, they have control over particular sectors
00:37:31 of society and decide now that they need more power.
00:37:33 And this is when now they may be now putting pressure on actually compelling a government
00:37:37 to act or not to act in particular instances.
00:37:39 Or do not consider the government at all.
00:37:41 That's correct.
00:37:42 So those are things that we need to keep a watchful eye on.
00:37:44 But for now, I'll ground it under the anti-gang legislation where it's about gang violence,
00:37:50 promoting gang violence, and really trying to stamp your authority for any given area
00:37:54 or areas that you may want to establish your command.
00:37:58 All right.
00:37:59 Where are we, Ms. Jackie?
00:38:00 All right.
00:38:03 But before we go to that question, before we go to that, this thing here.
00:38:06 This is the rehearsal.
00:38:08 We are getting ready for the rehearsal of the 61st Independence Day Parade.
00:38:15 Remember yesterday I mentioned to you that they were at the Nelson's Mandela Park and
00:38:23 the traffic situation around there would have been disturbed from 6 to 12 midday.
00:38:28 So they were preparing for the rehearsal.
00:38:32 The Chuantapego Police Service, Defense Force, the Prison Service, the Fire Services, the
00:38:37 Cadets, Scouts, and a whole list of persons involved in all of this.
00:38:45 It's a time when a nation should be proud of its achievements.
00:38:51 However, I hold the same feeling that I had when it was emancipation for this period here.
00:38:59 Proud to be a Trinbegonian, but under the present circumstances, the situation that
00:39:05 exists, it is difficult to feel that way in the true sense of the word because too much
00:39:11 persons are still accepting that behavior, that lawless behavior from our citizens while
00:39:22 others stand strong against it.
00:39:28 I think around this time, Senior Superintendent, it's a time that inspires me.
00:39:34 I hope that it will inspire the nation to recognize that whatever difficulty and challenges
00:39:39 that we are going through, we are facing, this is an opportunity where we must appreciate
00:39:43 that we enjoy some level of independence and something that we did in fact fought for over
00:39:50 the years.
00:39:51 So I think that this should be a reminder for us to understand that we have a country
00:39:54 to govern, we have a country to protect, and we all should find it within ourselves to
00:39:58 ensure that we really enjoy the full and true value of what it means to be an independent
00:40:03 nation.
00:40:04 Because when you look at persons wanting to live their life comfortably, want to come
00:40:11 out, want to enjoy everything, and there's a level of difficulty because of these gang
00:40:19 warfare, persons walking around with firearms, willy-nilly all over the nation, it makes
00:40:26 you wonder.
00:40:27 We should be in a position where we should be an adult in terms of the years that we
00:40:34 have.
00:40:35 Sixty-one years is a lot of time, but yet it seems that we are at the beginning of time
00:40:41 or the end of time because persons are just committing offenses against good citizens,
00:40:46 the warfare continues, relentless.
00:40:50 Persons are moving around with weapons of war.
00:40:53 We have seen persons intercepting vehicles and all of that on the nation's road.
00:40:57 To stand here and say that all is well, I'll be lying through my teeth.
00:41:04 Finding solutions is what we are at this time.
00:41:09 And Kupala Ali, let me tell you this, the whole idea behind we taking the streets, we
00:41:17 controlling crime, stands firm with my beliefs as a police officer, and it will not change.
00:41:23 Well, I want to agree with you, Senior Superintendent, that I have said on many programs before that
00:41:28 while we are seeing a prevalence of very serious criminal activities, if we do a careful study,
00:41:34 you realize that there are a few organized groups who are intended to continue to create
00:41:44 mayhem and public disorder.
00:41:46 So we need to start within the rule of law, looking at fluid strategies to start targeting
00:41:53 these individuals in a way that they should be targeted, to bring some perspective, to
00:41:57 bring some law and order.
00:41:58 I don't want Trinidad and Tobago to throw their hands in the air thinking that we have
00:42:02 lost all.
00:42:03 There is a group of persons who are behaving like this, and what we need is that we need
00:42:07 to answer back.
00:42:08 We need to answer back as a society and not answer back as one institution.
00:42:12 We need to answer back as a society.
00:42:14 This is our country.
00:42:15 And you said something very important, and going back to independence, that having been
00:42:20 given that constitution, those constitutional rights that we enjoy, we cannot allow a group
00:42:26 of individuals to continue to affect that right to safety and security, that right to
00:42:31 freedom of movement, that right to enjoy freedom of expression, that right to enjoy right to
00:42:38 education.
00:42:39 All those rights are very sacred rights.
00:42:41 So we must not allow a group of individuals to be impacting those rights that are so sacred
00:42:47 to all of us in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:42:48 But it is not enough.
00:42:50 To me, it is not enough to say, you know what, I don't care, I am going.
00:42:54 No, we must put things in place and do something about it in order to give the people back
00:43:03 that feeling of safety and security.
00:43:05 Well, Senior Subba, I mean, this is a careful statement I am going to make, and I have been
00:43:10 calling on this particular program and other programs for the institutions of the state,
00:43:15 the legislature, the judiciary, and the parliament to play their role in conjunction with the
00:43:20 citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:43:22 But if the state institutions are not moving into action, we may have to respectfully ask
00:43:28 the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago to make their voices be heard within the rule of law
00:43:32 to ensure that the institutions of the state really listen and hear the cries of the nation.
00:43:37 So when we are calling for some example that I gave on the last occasion, if we want to
00:43:42 protect and prevent crime, and we want to control these criminal elements, and we have
00:43:46 to see what persons have been granted bail, then would we not expect that we move with
00:43:51 haste to look at the right to reasonable bail that is enshrined in the constitution, and
00:43:56 how would we be able to achieve that?
00:43:58 The parliament has to move into action.
00:44:00 We need support from both the government, the opposition, the independent senators,
00:44:04 and the citizens need to move those institutions into action, because we will be continuing
00:44:08 to see persons committing very serious crimes, making applications before the court, and
00:44:13 being granted bail, because there is a right to reasonable bail, and the judiciary will
00:44:17 have to act accordingly.
00:44:18 Now if you know, regulate, or you qualify that right to reasonable bail, you will be
00:44:22 giving what additional support to the judiciary to be able to treat what you see.
00:44:26 Excellent.
00:44:27 Let's take a short break.
00:44:28 When we come back, more conversation.
00:44:29 You're watching Beyond the Tape.
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00:45:49 [Music]
00:45:59 A 39-year-old unemployed man was held with a revolver and a quantity of ammunition in
00:46:07 Operation Blue Line exercises in the San Diego area.
00:46:11 Officers from the Eastern Division Task Force under the Senior Superintendent Mr. Khan and
00:46:16 other senior officers continued to conduct several operations in the area where this
00:46:21 man from North Oropuch Road was held with a revolver and six rounds of .38 ammunition.
00:46:33 Excellent work.
00:46:35 Look at it.
00:46:36 A Daniel Boone, we used to call him that, Daniel Boone, or Long Nose or some kind of
00:46:39 thing.
00:46:40 We haven't seen those in a while.
00:46:41 And let me just say this while we're here.
00:46:44 The police have stepped up their efforts in the Mayaro area because of what we are seeing
00:46:51 in the Mayaro area.
00:46:54 We understand that persons are walking the beaches day and night hoping that some package
00:47:00 will float up in their presence and they can take possession of it.
00:47:06 Police officers in the night, on the beaches, in the trees, in the sun, together with officers
00:47:13 of the Triantafego Defense Force, in the day and in the night, looking to see who comes
00:47:18 to Mayaro.
00:47:19 We understand that persons are pointing guns at each other in a bid to find out who have
00:47:25 package and who don't.
00:47:28 We understand that some cocaine, some cocaine would have floated up on the beach, which
00:47:35 is surrounding the Mayaro area.
00:47:38 Again, members of the public, remember, it's an offense to have it.
00:47:44 And if you have a package, that means that you have it in your possession for the purpose
00:47:49 of trafficking.
00:47:50 Be informed.
00:47:51 Good evening, caller.
00:47:52 Good afternoon, caller, sorry.
00:47:53 Good afternoon, Officer Alexander.
00:47:54 Good afternoon, Officer Ali.
00:47:55 How are you doing?
00:47:56 I have four points.
00:47:57 Good.
00:47:58 Good.
00:47:59 Officer Alexander, I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you can hear me.
00:48:00 I'm not sure if you can hear me.
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