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00:00This program is unsuitable for young children.
00:30Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
01:00This program is unsuitable for young children.
01:30This program is unsuitable for young children.
02:00Good evening Trinidad and Tobago and welcome to Beyond the Tape.
02:10It is Wednesday the 24th of July.
02:13My name is Whitney Husbands and we welcome you.
02:15What does it mean to have a speedy trial in Trinidad and Tobago?
02:18Do we have speedy trials in Trinidad and Tobago?
02:20Does the constitution permit that persons who are going before the court that there's a time frame?
02:27I'm not sure.
02:28I'm sure we could get those answers today because it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
02:32And where does the victims and also the perpetrators,
02:35where are they placed when it comes to the long trial that they may have to go through and the process?
02:41And does that really help us in the society of Trinidad and Tobago?
02:45This evening no stranger to the show of course.
02:47And on a Wednesday we always speak about everything legal.
02:51And we're going to touch on these matters this evening.
02:55We have Corporal Ali representing the TTPS, our attorney at law,
02:58attorney who is definitely here to assist not just with the TTPS but the citizens at large.
03:04Good evening to you and welcome.
03:06Good evening to you Whitney.
03:07Again it's a pleasure to join you on this platform.
03:10Good evening to Trinidad and Tobago, all our citizens and those persons who are also visiting
03:15or looking on from other jurisdictions, family and beyond the tape.
03:20Whitney, I see you started this afternoon very current in relation to the recent pronouncement
03:28by the courts of Trinidad and Tobago in relation to Speedy Trial.
03:31And I'm happy that you are very current in relation to those issues.
03:36But before we traverse this afternoon in relation to that issue and other issues,
03:40Whitney, I think it's important to open this afternoon by giving a small declaration in relation to the officer who was shot.
03:54I wish to indicate that at this time the last information I received that while the situation is still serious,
04:02he's in a stable condition.
04:05I also want to indicate to members of the public that the executive is doing all that is required to ensure that the officer
04:14received the necessary intervention, whether it be medical, whether it be social,
04:19and also with reference to looking after his relatives and families as well.
04:23So they are making arrangements to ensure that all is well with him.
04:26So I just wanted to report on behalf of the TTPS with reference to the status of the officer.
04:33On another note, Whitney, again, just today, and to show the importance of this show,
04:38I just had the opportunity to visit two corporate entities in my personal capacity.
04:44And, again, this particular show is finding itself, in my view now, in every corner.
04:51And it's important, and the reason I'm saying that is that the prime time, this particular Beyond the Tape,
04:58the viewership, I think it's important for us to maximize this opportunity to ensure that we reach,
05:03and reach not only reach citizens, but reach citizens in a focused and dynamic way.
05:08And, you know, also encourage them to also continue to make their contribution for the well-being of Trinidad and Tobago.
05:14And the expression, let me show it to you and Jackie, and Beyond the Tape,
05:19they have expressed very positive feedback with reference to Beyond the Tape.
05:26And, you know, I want to encourage you to continue to represent the people,
05:30because your name has also been mentioned, you know, in a positive way outside there.
05:37So I just wanted to share that on a positive note.
05:39And to Trinidad and Tobago, again, we are seeing that the criminal elements are unfortunate.
05:44To use this example, even law enforcement are not spared from when there is conflict between criminal gangs
05:51and the level of violence that we've seen in Trinidad and Tobago.
05:53But as we go on in the program, I want to identify maybe one or two offenses which is very serious
05:59that will capture in relation to where that particular officer would have found himself
06:05and the law that exists to be able to investigate and treat with matters like that.
06:10So I just share that as we go along.
06:11But, again, it's a pleasure to be here this afternoon.
06:14You know, persons seeing and hearing of the TTPS is dealing with this matter,
06:19with one of the members being injured in this way and in the line of duty,
06:24and how all the officers coming together and how we're trying to deal with the situation.
06:29But the conversation on the street is that why don't you all do the same for citizens who are in situations like this,
06:38if they are gunned down, if they are robbed,
06:40everybody is coming together, banding together to make sure we get some sort of justice.
06:44Some of the citizens don't feel that.
06:47They don't feel the same energy.
06:50Well, I want to respect your view and where you sit in terms of if that's the position of members of the public,
06:57we ought to respect that and we ought to do an introspection immediately.
07:00What I will say is that every crime and crime that is perpetrated against an individual or a person's property
07:09should always attract equal level of focus based on the resources that we have to deploy to those particular situations.
07:17But I also want to make mention of something to law enforcement and law enforcement in a general sense,
07:22that I want to make mention on this show, Whitney, that if as a society we do not treat ourselves as being a body,
07:28being one body, so for example, if the head hurts, the two should also feel the pain.
07:34This is a typical example to law enforcement and I'm not only talking about TTPS, but all the other agencies
07:40and even to an extent the public sector in general, that we have to understand that when you are seeing a high level of violence and criminality,
07:48really and truly, and when you're seeing the gangs, any way they get an opportunity to have conflict,
07:53no one basically is or are spared in relation, because you do not know where you will be when that conflict will unfold.
08:02So, looking at the situation in a critical way, yes, you are seeing when an officer is hurt,
08:08yes, you are seeing a coming together, a united front, and I want to agree with you that when a citizen also is hurt,
08:16or is inflicted with grievous bodily harm, or death as the case may be, or properties affected,
08:23I want to agree with you and I will advise that the same response should also be directed to when a citizen is involved.
08:30So, yes, I think that we have to have a balanced approach, but one thing I want to say with me is that I want to urge law enforcement
08:37and even the citizenry, that even if we are seeing that one of our own is inflicted with deadly force,
08:45or even if a citizen is inflicted with deadly force, I want to emphasize the need for us to continue to operate by the rule of law.
08:53And I want to make mention of that. Let us continue to operate within the rule of law and do not get carried away in relation to those situations.
09:02And there's a reason why I'm saying that. Because, yes, you can respond, but the same rule of law gives you the opportunity to respond.
09:09But follow the rule of law. Do not take the law into your own hands.
09:13Because you all preach that all the time to the citizens when you feel that justice is not served.
09:18And we know all the processes where we have to, if something happens, we make a report.
09:24And if the investigation leads to the perpetrator suspect, it will go before the court.
09:29That's correct.
09:30And then we know how that goes.
09:31That's correct.
09:32But where are we when it comes to bringing closure for our citizens and victims?
09:39That is, I think, the main question there, the closure part of it, which many people, I'm sure, could say they have never received.
09:46Well, Whitney, and I think you're hovering over a very important point.
09:51And I want to respond to it like this.
09:54You see that closure that you're speaking about?
09:57It's such an important element in relation to the primary mandate of the police service is to detect crime and other infraction of the law.
10:06So if there's a crime or infraction of the law, minimum to the capital, the victim of that crime will want to see closure.
10:15And the closure that they will be anticipating is a detection by a fair trial for all parties in the process.
10:23And in that context, I want to be able to indicate clearly this afternoon that let us remember that our mandate is about crime detection and infraction of the law.
10:36So, yes, on the one hand, you may want to have heightened visibility.
10:40You may want to have frequent exercises.
10:44But they must all lead towards crime detection and successful prosecution.
10:50That is when you have run the entire 22 yards.
10:54If we are just relying on visibility and the frequent exercises, but you are not that question to ask in terms of closure.
11:02You can only get closure when that arrest, charge, and a successful prosecution runs the 22 yards.
11:13And I think sometimes we miss that sometimes.
11:15And hence why we cannot be myopic in relation to how we are looking in our response to criminal activities.
11:21And I've been very critical.
11:23I'm speaking both from a law enforcement perspective.
11:25And I'm also speaking as an office of the court to ensure that the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago really get the level of service and response that they are required to get.
11:35And on the other side, the balance equation, to bring closure, we will also be requiring some of your assistance.
11:42When need be, to be able to bring closure.
11:45Case in point, if you have a role to play in criminal prosecution, play your role diligently.
11:51Let's take a look at what made today's headlines.
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13:43...major stories that made today's headlines.
13:45And we're seeing more of the gun violence taking place in the Port of Spain area in particular.
13:51And because of that, we lost innocent lives.
13:54Now, a video that you're going to see here that just came up, the streamer put it back up, where in Mangaroos, a community last evening, conducted a prayer vigil for peace and love.
14:04Because all of us, not just persons in the said community of Mangaroos, we are extremely fed up.
14:11And when there's innocent lives being taken, we have a problem.
14:41What do we want?
14:42Peace!
14:43What do we want?
14:44Peace!
14:45What do we want?
14:46Peace!
14:47What do we want?
14:48Peace!
14:49What do we want?
14:50Peace!
14:51What do we want?
14:52Peace!
14:53What do we want?
14:54Peace!
14:55What do we want?
14:56Peace!
14:57What do we want?
14:58Peace!
14:59What do we want?
15:00Peace!
15:01What do we want?
15:02Peace!
15:03What do we want?
15:04Peace!
15:05What do we want?
15:06Peace!
15:07What do we want?
15:08Peace!
15:09What do we want?
15:10Peace!
15:11What do we want?
15:12Peace!
15:13What do we want?
15:14Peace!
15:15What do we want?
15:16Peace!
15:17What do we want?
15:18Peace!
15:19What do we want?
15:20Peace!
15:21What do we want?
15:22Peace!
15:23What do we want?
15:24Peace!
15:25What do we want?
15:26Peace!
15:27What do we want?
15:28Peace!
15:29What do we want?
15:30Peace!
15:31What do we want?
15:32Peace!
15:33What do we want?
15:34Peace!
15:35What do we want?
15:36Peace!
15:37What do we want?
15:38Peace!
15:39What do we want?
15:40Peace!
15:41What do we want?
15:42Peace!
15:43What do we want?
15:44Peace!
15:45What do we want?
15:46Peace!
15:47What do we want?
15:48Peace!
15:49What do we want?
15:50Peace!
15:51What do we want?
15:52Peace!
15:53What do we want?
15:54Peace!
15:55What do we want?
15:56Peace!
15:57What do we want?
15:58Peace!
15:59What do we want?
16:00Peace!
16:01What do we want?
16:02Peace!
16:03What do we want?
16:04Peace!
16:05What do we want?
16:06Peace!
16:07What do we want?
16:08Peace!
16:09What do we want?
16:10Peace!
16:11What do we want?
16:12Peace!
16:13What do we want?
16:14Peace!
16:15What do we want?
16:16Peace!
16:17What do we want?
16:18Peace!
16:19What do we want?
16:20Peace!
16:21What do we want?
16:22Peace!
16:23What do we want?
16:24Peace!
16:25What do we want?
16:26Peace!
16:27What do we want?
16:28Peace!
16:29What do we want?
16:30Peace!
16:31What do we want?
16:32Peace!
16:33What do we want?
16:34Peace!
16:35What do we want?
16:36Peace!
16:37What do we want?
16:38Peace!
16:39What do we want?
16:40Peace!
16:41What do we want?
16:42Peace!
16:43What do we want?
16:44Peace!
16:45What do we want?
16:46Peace!
16:47What do we want?
16:48Peace!
16:49What do we want?
16:50Peace!
16:51What do we want?
16:52Peace!
16:53What do we want?
16:54Peace!
16:55What do we want?
16:56Peace!
16:57What do we want?
16:58Peace!
16:59What do we want?
17:00Peace!
17:01What do we want?
17:02Peace!
17:03What do we want?
17:04Peace!
17:05What do we want?
17:06Peace!
17:07What do we want?
17:08Peace!
17:09What do we want?
17:10Peace!
17:11What do we want?
17:12Peace!
17:13What do we want?
17:14Peace!
17:15What do we want?
17:16Peace!
17:17What do we want?
17:18Peace!
17:19What do we want?
17:20Peace!
17:21What do we want?
17:22Peace!
17:23What do we want?
17:24Peace!
17:25What do we want?
17:26Peace!
17:27What do we want?
17:28Peace!
17:29What do we want?
17:30Peace!
17:31What do we want?
17:32Peace!
17:33What do we want?
17:34Peace!
17:35What do we want?
17:36Peace!
17:37What do we want?
17:38Peace!
17:39What do we want?
17:40Peace!
17:41What do we want?
17:42Peace!
17:43What do we want?
17:44Peace!
17:45What do we want?
17:46Peace!
17:47What do we want?
17:48Peace!
17:49What do we want?
17:50Peace!
17:51What do we want?
17:52Peace!
17:53What do we want?
17:54Peace!
17:55What do we want?
17:56Peace!
17:57What do we want?
17:58Peace!
17:59What do we want?
18:00Peace!
18:01What do we want?
18:02Peace!
18:03What do we want?
18:04Peace!
18:05What do we want?
18:06Peace!
18:07What do we want?
18:08Peace!
18:09What do we want?
18:10Peace!
18:11What do we want?
18:12Peace!
18:13What do we want?
18:14Peace!
18:15What do we want?
18:16Peace!
18:17What do we want?
18:18Peace!
18:19What do we want?
18:20Peace!
18:21What do we want?
18:22Peace!
18:23What do we want?
18:24Peace!
18:25What do we want?
18:26Peace!
18:27What do we want?
18:28Peace!
18:29What do we want?
18:30Peace!
18:31What do we want?
18:32Peace!
18:33What do we want?
18:34Peace!
18:35What do we want?
18:36Peace!
18:37What do we want?
18:38Peace!
18:39What do we want?
18:40Peace!
18:41What do we want?
18:42Peace!
18:43What do we want?
18:44Peace!
18:45What do we want?
18:46Peace!
18:47What do we want?
18:48Peace!
18:49What do we want?
18:50Peace!
18:51What do we want?
18:52Peace!
18:53What do we want?
18:54Peace!
18:55What do we want?
18:56Peace!
18:57What do we want?
18:58Peace!
18:59What do we want?
19:00Peace!
19:01What do we want?
19:02Peace!
19:03What do we want?
19:04Peace!
19:05What do we want?
19:06Peace!
19:07What do we want?
19:08Peace!
19:09What do we want?
19:10Peace!
19:11What do we want?
19:12Peace!
19:13What do we want?
19:14Peace!
19:15What do we want?
19:16Peace!
19:17What do we want?
19:18Peace!
19:19What do we want?
19:20Peace!
19:21What do we want?
19:22Peace!
19:23What do we want?
19:24Peace!
19:25What do we want?
19:26Peace!
19:27What do we want?
19:28Peace!
19:29What do we want?
19:30Peace!
19:31What do we want?
19:32Peace!
19:33What do we want?
19:34Peace!
19:35What do we want?
19:36Peace!
19:37What do we want?
19:38Peace!
19:39What do we want?
19:40Peace!
19:41What do we want?
19:42Peace!
19:43What do we want?
19:44Peace!
19:45What do we want?
19:46Peace!
19:47What do we want?
19:48Peace!
19:49What do we want?
19:50Peace!
19:51What do we want?
19:52Peace!
19:53What do we want?
19:54Peace!
19:55What do we want?
19:56Peace!
19:59Peace!
20:14And we are back.
20:21It's LegallySpeaking Wednesday.
20:22Corporal Allie is here with us.
20:23side of Trinidad today and there was a robbery that took place in the Arima
20:27area and I want you all to take this in.
20:38Again it is just disturbing to see because you could go there to get items
20:43quickly for home like any one of us and this could happen.
20:53And it's always the same at this state I don't know if that is true even though
21:08you may say see some of the perpetrators within the stores or committing the
21:13crime they always have extra persons outside maybe guarding or it's not just
21:19two or three that you're seeing here. Well Whitney I'm happy that you're making
21:22mention of that because I mean that's a clear indication when we speak about if
21:25anybody wants to get an understanding of what organized crime is. That's a clear
21:30example of organized crime that the fact that three person have entered that
21:33establishment and what appears to be based on just an observation it appears
21:37that a vehicle on the outside seems to be just there to get a wake up. So
21:42again you've seen that level of organization if not and if investigated
21:46properly you may well find that that's a gang existing and a gang that is
21:50involved in in robberies and it may be the same individuals who may be what
21:54possessing firearms who may be involved in shooting. So again you've seen how the
21:58the criminal element is organized and it's important for us as I always say on
22:03this platform and even when I'm speaking to the TTPS that it's important for us
22:07to use intellect. Intellect when we are investigating these crimes and I mean let
22:12us understand if these persons are changing in terms of their modus operandi
22:15why it is that we are not moving with them. So it's important to see what's
22:21happening and again you know once a video is shown persons who are aware of
22:25the persons who may be responsible for this particular crime again utilize the
22:29opportunities that are available to you to ensure that there's a expeditious
22:33detection of this particular crime. I think persons in businesses regardless
22:38how big or how small should have trigger alarms. They need trigger alarms at this
22:42point now because the officers can't be everywhere and I'm just as you say using
22:47intellect and understanding for on the aspect of officer or TTPS when we're
22:54observing this but as a citizen we also have to use that as well. So finding ways
22:59to bring attention if something happens that a trigger alarm could be something
23:03that will alert something is wrong something is going on to get these
23:08persons out quickly. Well you see I mean I don't want to share strategy on this
23:12platform but these are things that it. Please don't you don't need to go too
23:18extreme but I'm just saying to the citizens. When I see these things I get passionate about
23:21these things because I know that you know that these things can be dealt with
23:25and it's important and I must signal it that Whitney there's a lot of terms that
23:32have been used with reference to policing and I wouldn't identify some of
23:37the terms but basic basic policing in relation to getting an understanding
23:44well okay if you investigate the look at the crime itself look at the look at the
23:49raw material in the crime and just by way of example what after that crime is
23:55committed what was taken. Money. No I'm not asking you to respond oh but I'm
23:59just showing that the level of analysis yes in terms like looking at what was
24:04taken that's one. Two when we speak about intelligence driven policing it's
24:09important to get an understanding well okay that if we see a robbery or if this
24:15is a store breaking or whatever you want to classify it it's important for us to
24:20start looking at these things in context so that we can now be able to deploy
24:25persons or even use reach a stage where there's reasonable grounds to believe or
24:29suspect that it may be a particular group from a particular area and start
24:33engaging them you never know who will be ready to tell you something. Remember
24:37sometimes we think that these criminal elements are hard. Whitney I have come
24:41across many of them and with the legal pressure placed on them most of them are
24:51ready to tell you a story the question is if you are not engaging them how you
24:56get that opportunity so intelligent driven policing are sometimes I feel
25:00that we really do not utilize that concept properly but intelligence
25:06gathering is not only waiting for the citizens to call you and tell you what I
25:08know X or no Y it calls for deep analysis of the crime itself so don't
25:13only tell me that okay there was 16 robberies in in Eastern Division and 17
25:18robberies in Northeastern Division no I want a little more tell me about the
25:21crime tell me about how many persons came are you seeing some consistency
25:25where four came in Northeastern four came same mode as Soprandi let us start
25:30looking at you know and this is when we may start to be able to cross those
25:34hurdles but for now just looking at maths and statistics sometimes I you
25:40know and I seen it in the public interest I think that we need to go a
25:43step further and I know that the executive are calling heavily on the
25:47intelligence agencies both within the TTPS and external to provide the
25:52intelligence but provide what intelligence meaning that what
25:56information that goes through our process so that not what something is
26:01happening with the information to bring it to intelligence to be able to say
26:04okay we can know direct police action on this location yeah we have a call on the
26:08line let's take that call hello good evening hello good evening yes we're
26:17you go ahead yes you know looking at that video just now everybody in thing
26:25on their head what is this hoodie everybody with hoodie you know it's
26:30really really sad people put up their hand you're gonna close any people don't
26:33bother both it's like if you're pleased and I find it take up a little while
26:37there so we should have something here so that alarm will go off you know
26:41because they really overdo it officer Ali happy to hear you you talk about you
26:46know the recuperation of your colleague because that is one of the first things
26:50I was going to ask but you have answer that because you know it's just
26:54something else you have a lot of organs in there that can really be damaged you
26:57know something but my problem is is that I don't need to do it remember I had
27:03spoken about these vests before because I have seen it before and I remember the
27:07person who wasn't on the tape that time I was I asked him whether he feel it
27:13will be a target because of these vests that not probably not working properly
27:18and he said he did not feel so but I hope they do something about that get
27:22proper bulletproof vests for the officers the old ones that we can let them
27:26that disappear because it's really tough because he he was on duty on either the
27:30second point is another officer look at another video and where I saw they
27:37continue to harass the police when police trying to do their job I remember
27:42the program this particular officer talking about customer service and you
27:46want to save the people well and all and they continue to harass the officers
27:50when they're doing the job because when this person he shot something I don't
27:55know what it was he didn't use a gun or anything and he shot something and the
28:01person move away somebody else went to him and they continue doing that but the
28:05person who was on the program we can say there's a charge for these things but to
28:09me nothing has been done they continue to prevent for you from doing the same
28:14the third point is you try to disappear now we have to pay money to persons who
28:22have been you know who have been in jail because of a drug boss and because of
28:27prison authorities fail to conduct sentence reviews or something like that
28:32you have to pay these people a set of money what is really happening what is
28:36really happening I don't know if you all saw but I saw in Al Jazeera where
28:42somebody called 999 the police went to her home because of something and
28:47something happened and she went she went to the kitchen to do something the
28:51officer shot her, the same officer who came to assist her, that officer shot her you could imagine how many people make a
28:58noise especially a white officer and a black person but I don't know if any of you saw that
29:03keep doing the correct work and all of you be safe be safe everybody because it
29:09continues to be they don't care anything they don't care about police they don't
29:12care anything they're doing their own thing because they know they could get
29:15away so all the best to all of you thank you very much all right I thought she was gonna say
29:19special good evening to Jackie but she didn't do that this evening she missed
29:23that one but I'm sure it's implied but again Whitney on a serious note again
29:32very salient point from the caller and the you know the three issues that she
29:39tabled again it comes back to that issue where in particular where the the
29:45citizens are if not obstructing resisting or threatening the officers
29:50I've called on several occasions publicly before the Joint Select
29:56Committee of Parliament recently that if we are not having deep enforcement of
30:00the legislation so we are calling for legislation that's one but if we are not
30:04having deep enforcement of the legislation so when you are seeing
30:07things that are happening why we are not enforcing the legislation and if the
30:10legislation cannot be enforced right there and then because of the
30:12circumstances why it is that we are not gathering sufficient information to be
30:16able to go back and respond to that situation so again caller deep
30:20enforcement whatever the situation deep enforcement and it will take me to this
30:26point immediately with you before we lose this point and going back to the
30:29police officer I want to say to Trinidad and Tobago and this is for you and the
30:33police officer but I speak to the police officer first the anti-gang legislation
30:39clearly spoke about where a law enforcement officer is concerned or an
30:44intelligence officer if gang members or gang leaders shoot at these law
30:51enforcement officers or intelligence officers or cause previous bodily harm
30:54to these officers it's a very serious offense under the legislation it's a 30
30:59year penalty to start with so it's a very serious offense when the gang
31:03leaders and gang members and gangs are exhibiting that violence towards law
31:07enforcement and similarly with reference to the civilians who may be supporting
31:12law enforcement whether it be through intelligence gathering whether it's
31:16through an investigation if you are receiving retaliatory action there's
31:20also a very serious offense under the anti-gang act right so I just wanted to
31:24share that with you this afternoon because they are very serious offenses
31:28that we must deal with yeah we have to take a break we'll be back after this
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33:25and we are back we have a call on the line so let's head back to the phone
33:28hello good evening hello good evening good evening yes I just calling to tell
33:40you all I enjoy your program I you know look at your program all the time and
33:43you all are doing a good job but what it is I want to make a point that something
33:49or do we could study I recruited now from 30 the new batch of police that's
33:56possible I think it is you know a bit on fear that they're doing the medical
34:02before the polygraph test because remember nobody ever the medical that
34:07could be this lump sum of money and you're going to pay this lump sum of
34:12money now and then you're going to do a polygraph test and then you feel if you
34:16feel this money just gonna remember people trying to make it now you know
34:22and they're fighting to get that money to do the medical so why don't they do
34:28the polygraph test first and then do the medical after so I don't know if this is
34:34something you could look into and to make it easier for you know the recruits
34:39who trying to get into this field okay thank you what are your thoughts yeah of
34:45course I mean as I said I always interested in the comments of the caller
34:48and I'll definitely advance that for maybe looking at review of the
34:52policy and see whether in fact it makes sense and probably to delve into the
34:57thinking as a medical followed by polygraph to see whether anything can be
35:01done but again this is the opportunity to express yourself who knows maybe that
35:06position may just be sufficient to inform a review of the policy yeah we
35:10have another call let's take that call hello good evening
35:13Good evening to Mr. Ali and to the call of your sister.
35:16Good evening to you sir.
35:18I just want to take a little extra time for you.
35:20If you could please do.
35:22Mr. Ali, would you eat a half plucked duck?
35:28And I know you can give me the answer but I don't even think you could.
35:32If you could what?
35:34If you could eat a half plucked duck.
35:37Half plucked duck.
35:39If you'll eat a half plucked duck.
35:41It's a common term in Canada.
35:43Very very common.
35:45A half plucked duck.
35:47Would you?
35:49Yeah.
35:51Yeah.
35:53I understand.
35:55I understand the caller.
35:57I think caller just so you know not to engage you publicly but I think that
36:00that question in itself I think that question in itself carries a response
36:05um yeah it carries a response and I think it fits in clearly as to
36:09our earlier comments both Whitney and myself in terms of where she called for
36:13for closure and if I if I if I link it to a half cook then
36:17if the analysis is done you have not gotten closure you haven't gotten the
36:21kind of duck that you would like to to digest.
36:24That's one.
36:26The other one is that
36:28we were advocating during the course of last year
36:31for the program to be extended to two hours
36:35for whatever reason they cut it down to one hour.
36:38They didn't add the extra half.
36:40In a way they cut it off.
36:42That's one issue. The other issue is that
36:44do you believe
36:46that you can solve a problem
36:48from the level of thinking that created the problem?
36:52I have been involved in Project Mindmind since 1985 to now.
36:56And we know a problem has to be
36:58dealt with differently.
37:00I was advocating the other day
37:02and making a suggestion
37:04to expect to
37:06start arming corporals
37:08so they can have a firearm with them at all times.
37:10And the
37:12gentleman responded by saying
37:14he quoted the act and all that.
37:16In other words, he was saying let us
37:18stay in the box and see if we can figure it out.
37:20We have to come out of the box to figure it out.
37:24Now with respect to
37:26another issue which is very
37:28burning.
37:30The reason why I asked about the half-cooked duck
37:32was with respect to
37:34if you deputize me
37:36to assist you
37:38because of a situation.
37:40You have
37:42the level of protection
37:44from the association
37:46who will give you a lawyer.
37:48You have
37:50the level of protection for your family.
37:54Why are you offering me
37:56the deputy a half-cooked duck?
37:58I would like to know.
38:00Thank you.
38:04Whitney?
38:06Again,
38:08you see in the
38:10if it's correct to use the
38:12analysis of the
38:14citizen of this country
38:16trying their best
38:18to really explain
38:20how they feel
38:22with reference to the response.
38:24And it's important to listen to their concern
38:26and listen to how they feel.
38:28He's using that
38:30half-cooked duck.
38:32The analogy.
38:34It's a
38:36very, very strong statement that he's making.
38:38And if we apply that
38:40in every context,
38:42whether it be from an administrative,
38:44operational, investigative, you'll realize
38:46that
38:48we need, based on what
38:50the analysis he's using,
38:52we need to go further.
38:54We cannot just be
38:56stopping halfway.
38:58We need to go further and complete the process.
39:00Not the entire duck.
39:02I hope that law enforcement
39:04and all the agencies are listening
39:06to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
39:08I just want to say one more thing,
39:10respond to him in relation to one more thing.
39:12You remind me of a style of leadership
39:14that resembles
39:16adaptive leadership.
39:18When he spoke about the issue of the
39:20firearm.
39:22That adaptive leadership
39:24is a very, very serious
39:26principle in relation to
39:28just the mere word
39:30of adapting to circumstances.
39:32It means, therefore, that you, again,
39:34and I said it before, you may have had a plan,
39:36you may have had a roadmap to say,
39:38you are going for a spin.
39:40But you did not know that there were going to be heavy rainfall.
39:42So if you were going for a spin
39:44and you were going to take a particular route
39:46that is not conducive to use
39:48when rainfall is heavy, you may have to
39:50change your pathway.
39:52Or you may have to cancel your trip.
39:54Or you may have to revert to say,
39:56we will do a virtual, we cannot meet in person.
39:58The moral of the story is that it is important
40:00for us to be adaptive.
40:02I have used the word in the past meaning fluid.
40:04Again, we need to be very critical
40:06and this is without prejudice to anybody,
40:08but we need to be critical,
40:10we need to hold ourselves accountable
40:12in relation to what is happening
40:14to be able to respond.
40:16As I said before, we hear
40:19but again, being that adaptive policing
40:21or that adaptive leadership
40:23at all levels,
40:25it is very important.
40:27We have to take a break.
40:29We will be back.
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42:17And we are back.
42:19The lines are open
42:21and no persons are already calling.
42:23We have a caller on the line
42:25so let's head back to the phone lines quickly.
42:27Hello, good evening.
42:29Good afternoon to you, Ms. Hansman
42:31and good afternoon to you, Corporal Ali.
42:33So Corporal Ali,
42:35last week we have witnessed the situation
42:37in Citygate where a maxi driver
42:39refused to assist a police officer
42:41when called upon.
42:43Now my question to you this afternoon,
42:45in withholding evidence
42:47from the police
42:49which will allow the police to solve a crime
42:51and let me give two specific scenarios.
42:53A crime
42:55takes place in front of Ms. Hansman's
42:57business space or residence
42:59but she has the video footage.
43:01But that video footage
43:03will help the police to solve that crime
43:05and she refuses to hand it over
43:07by once saying she doesn't have it
43:09or she could be making an excuse
43:11and saying because of technical issues
43:13she doesn't have the video
43:15or in a case where a person
43:17will get like shot
43:19and they go to one of the medical institutions
43:21if the doctors have
43:23I think an obligation
43:25to inform the police when somebody
43:27come in with such an injury
43:29I've been interviewed when a person gets shot
43:31but I'm refusing also
43:33to give the police
43:35to tell the police exactly what has happened
43:37to me
43:39in terms of getting injured
43:41by getting shot
43:43What legal
43:45obligations open
43:47to the police
43:49officers who may be
43:51directly involved with that
43:53investigation? What legal obligations open to them?
43:55Thank you.
43:57Thank you Kolaf. Two beautiful
43:59questions. Let's see who the first
44:01one in reference to the CCTV that may be
44:03in the possession of a potential
44:05witness. The witness is reluctant.
44:07Let us first examine
44:09step across
44:11to the second issue
44:13where we look at that level
44:15of voluntariness
44:17with reference to the participation
44:19in supporting a criminal investigation
44:21and with the potential for a prosecution
44:23In the first instance, what I would advise
44:25is that if you are reluctant
44:27simply I'll advise the police
44:29officers to obtain a search warrant
44:31and search your place to be able to get
44:33possession of that footage because the public
44:35interest will require that we get
44:37possession of the footage to be able to detect that crime
44:39which may not only detect that crime
44:41but could probably detect crimes
44:43so the public interest will require for us to get
44:45possession of evidence and we can use a judicial
44:47instrument to execute at your location
44:49and take possession of the CCTV
44:51if you are not voluntarily giving
44:53a statement and providing
44:55the CCTV. And you will protect the persons
44:57who if they don't volunteer to hand
44:59it over and you have a warrant that
45:01they will have to hand it over that they protect them
45:03too, right? I like the word that you're using in terms of
45:05so that where they had the option to hand over
45:07and give a statement and explain
45:09the details of the camera
45:11and how it operates and so forth
45:13in the judicial instrument the police
45:15now have taken possession of it and they will examine it
45:17and they will provide the evidence accordingly
45:19The evidence act speaks about how do we use CCTV footage
45:21and that sort of thing. So that's in the first
45:23instance where the option is there and I've done that
45:25many times before. On the second
45:27issue with reference to where someone is shot
45:29that's a virtual complainant, that's a victim
45:31Now if the victim is hesitant
45:34to give evidence, where can we go?
45:36He himself or she or they
45:38might be denying justice
45:40for themselves because if they are not providing
45:42the information to say
45:44it's Tom or Jack, then how would the police
45:46know exactly who to pursue? So we may have
45:48a medical saying, okay, gunshot wounds
45:50but what is important here
45:52is that, and what I will always advise
45:54the police officers to do, is to try and examine
45:56the person to see what may be the
45:58reason for him not bringing
46:00the information forward because it can be a situation
46:02where he's in fear. That if I give the
46:04information that now my life
46:06if it was threatened before, could you imagine what's happening
46:08now? There are alternatives
46:10under the evidence act to be able to treat a person
46:12who may be in fear of bodily
46:14harm or even death as the case may be
46:16So I'll ask the officers to go a little bit
46:18deeper to ascertain why there's
46:20a reluctance and look at other
46:22angles to see whether in fact there may be other persons
46:24who may have been able to identify
46:26and help progress the matter.
46:28We have another call. Hello, good evening
46:30Hi, good evening Whitney
46:32Good evening sir. And good evening to Mr. Ali
46:34Good evening sir
46:36Mr. Ali, always representing
46:38the TTPS well
46:40especially at the lower rank
46:42and I'm hoping your elevation
46:44Miss Whitney, lovely hairstyle
46:46as per usual, I hope I get a smile
46:48out of you, sometimes the compliments seem
46:50to be passing, you know
46:52but nonetheless
46:54Mr. Ali, you hearing me good?
46:56I'm hearing you sir. I'm seeing that
46:58there was
47:00a recent broadcast
47:02social media post
47:04and officers' names
47:06and where they're attached
47:08was put in that
47:10thing relative to some shooting
47:12with a man who was killed
47:14by the police
47:16and I'm wondering, have you ever seen
47:18in any of the other forceful
47:20countries that the
47:22initial broadcast
47:24is sent out relative to
47:26the exact names
47:28I mean the officers where they're attached
47:30is probably something that they
47:32but the exact names of the officers
47:34have you ever seen that kind of thing
47:36and I'm thinking that we could be guided
47:38as to how we release
47:40some of these names
47:42of officers in the initial stages
47:44when an incident takes place
47:46when somebody lost their life
47:48Remember, these are persons
47:50who have
47:52some different reach
47:54and it may very well be
47:56putting the officers
47:58and some of their relatives
48:00at risk
48:02in the initial stages
48:04obviously when the investigation
48:06goes on and there's a charge or whatever
48:08then we could appreciate that
48:10they would release the names of the officers
48:12involved. I'm not too sure if you're with me
48:14still.
48:16Thank you.
48:18The other thing is
48:20quickly
48:22search warrant
48:24when officers go to execute search warrants
48:26I'm asking
48:28is there
48:30in terms of
48:32obstructing the police
48:34can the police be obstructed by words and by action
48:36and I'm studying
48:38if it is the search warrant
48:40if the police go there for Jason
48:42and Jason comes out and says
48:44we are not Jason here
48:46but the police break down the place and get Jason in there
48:48could the police not explore the avenue
48:50of resisting
48:52or obstructing the police
48:54in the execution
48:56in terms of the mother giving that false
48:58information
49:00I'm just asking all this stuff
49:02if you could assist with that
49:04The duck
49:06I know you might hear
49:08her pick duck and you don't know that you are
49:10a cute cricketer as well
49:12Mr. Ali
49:14it might be twofold in that way when you hear duck
49:16Out
49:19Thank you so much
49:21We will respond to his questions
49:23after the break
49:48Thank you so much
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