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00:00:00This program is unsuitable for young children.
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00:00:56Alien Romulus.
00:01:00They hunt.
00:01:05They breed.
00:01:09They kill.
00:01:14This August.
00:01:17Once they grab hold.
00:01:22They never let go.
00:01:25Alien Romulus.
00:01:52Alien Romulus.
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00:03:44Welcome to the rally, welcome Corporal.
00:03:46Good evening to you, Mark.
00:03:48It's indeed a pleasure to share this platform
00:03:50with you this afternoon, and before I proceed
00:03:52to make some kind comments in relation
00:03:54to where you are concerned, you know,
00:03:56good evening to Shredder and Tobago,
00:03:57good evening to Jackie and family on Beyond the Tip,
00:04:01and even persons who may be visiting,
00:04:03who have visited our shows, you know,
00:04:04good evening to you all.
00:04:06Mark, let me take this opportunity publicly.
00:04:08A few days ago, I was reading,
00:04:10had the privilege to read the print media,
00:04:12and I saw that you were the recipient of an award,
00:04:15a regional award, and I want to take this opportunity
00:04:17to congratulate you publicly.
00:04:21We have been looking on with your,
00:04:23and I think it was your investigative reporting,
00:04:25you know, I think it's very important,
00:04:27you know, from a media context in terms of ensuring
00:04:30that we uphold the democracy and ensure
00:04:31that there's full transparency and accountability,
00:04:33so I think it's important to identify a positive,
00:04:36you know, and especially where, I think it was,
00:04:37and you can correct me, it was a regional recognition
00:04:41in relation to that print and that investigative journalism,
00:04:43so I want to just congratulate you on behalf of the TTPS
00:04:47and by extension, the people of Trinidad and Tobago,
00:04:49but I know a lot is happening, Mark,
00:04:50and I know that I look forward to what you may have
00:04:53to pose to me this afternoon.
00:04:54I definitely, thanks a lot for your warm compliments,
00:04:59and as I said, I continue to fly that flag
00:05:01of investigative journalism,
00:05:03not just in Trinidad and Tobago,
00:05:04but of course, across the region,
00:05:07and it's kind of tough for us to stand here now
00:05:11and talk about, you know, this tragic event
00:05:13that unfolded last night, another tragic event,
00:05:18including a father and a young five-year-old girl
00:05:23who were killed by brazen gunmen last night in Moruga,
00:05:27and truly, it has now, the statistic grim as it is,
00:05:33we are now at exactly 400 homicides for the year.
00:05:38234 days have gone for the year, and we have 400 homicides.
00:05:45Keep that in mind when you think about 2022,
00:05:48where there were 605 homicides, and corporately,
00:05:53I know it's a very difficult thing to talk about.
00:05:56It's a lot of mothers out there, a lot of fathers out there
00:05:59that are obviously sympathizing with this family,
00:06:02an innocent young child
00:06:05shot in a heel of bullets with her father.
00:06:08Well, Mark, you have basically placed in my domain
00:06:13this afternoon of extension, the TTPS,
00:06:16a very unfortunate situation, and when you see a child,
00:06:20you don't know whether that child would have been destined
00:06:22to be the prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:06:24You don't know whether that child would have been
00:06:25the next surgeon, the next specialist
00:06:28in a medical fraternity,
00:06:30maybe the next commissioner of police,
00:06:31and that child basically have been caught into the mayhem
00:06:35and the violence that we have seen in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:06:37So first, I want to begin by expressing condolences,
00:06:40and I know that is very cheap to the family,
00:06:43especially where that child is concerned,
00:06:46and I don't want to say use the opportunity,
00:06:49but just looking at the raw facts of that matter,
00:06:51you have seen, based on the reporting, three persons.
00:06:56You see the caliber of ammunition being 5.56.
00:06:59That in itself should tell us, listen,
00:07:02that when you are speaking about criminality,
00:07:04there is no boundaries for criminalities.
00:07:06We are seeing, based on the report,
00:07:07that these persons were very persistent in a chase,
00:07:11and they didn't have any consideration for that minor
00:07:14who may have been in that particular facility.
00:07:16So I want to take this opportunity
00:07:17to call on law enforcement,
00:07:18and call on law enforcement with the expectation
00:07:22that there will be a thorough, there will be a diligent,
00:07:25and there will be aggressive response
00:07:27to bring justice to that particular child in particular,
00:07:30and those who may have been affected.
00:07:31And may I say as well, Mark,
00:07:33it's important for Trinidad and Tobago
00:07:35to recognize that, again, when you are speaking criminality,
00:07:38the Mark Vasant, and the Zaheer Ali, and the Jackie,
00:07:41and no one basically can say that they are spared
00:07:45when criminal gangs are having conflict.
00:07:48So I just want to call on the citizen as well,
00:07:50those who may have put in an information
00:07:53to be able to deal with that crime.
00:07:54I want to call on you all to provide the information
00:07:57expeditiously to the Homicide Bureau,
00:07:59or to any trusted officer that you may have,
00:08:01who will be able now to channel that
00:08:02into the course of the investigation.
00:08:03But again, very serious cause of concern, Mark.
00:08:06Definitely, and you know, the strange thing about it,
00:08:09Trinidad and Tobago, having spoken to a number
00:08:13of senior homicide investigators today
00:08:15about this particular incident,
00:08:18they couldn't find any motives just yet.
00:08:20But they're saying, based on their interactions
00:08:22with people in the community,
00:08:24the man was an upstanding man, businessman,
00:08:27he had no prior threats to his family or himself
00:08:32in regard to anything.
00:08:33So what then is the motive for it?
00:08:36I mean, a lot of people have been hurt,
00:08:39not just by this particular murder,
00:08:40but by numerous murders that have occurred for the year,
00:08:43and of course, during the last couple of years.
00:08:46I know, as I said, one murder is too much.
00:08:48That's correct.
00:08:49Too many in this country.
00:08:50Yes.
00:08:51You know, and that kind of feeling,
00:08:54I think one of his friends was just articulating
00:08:58to the media, is that,
00:09:02to those in authority really feel tangibly
00:09:07the hurt and the sense of despair
00:09:10that most citizens claim that they are feeling now.
00:09:14Well, I think that's a very, very, not only sensitive,
00:09:17but I think it's a piercing question.
00:09:19And I think that that question,
00:09:20if it's placed into the mind and bosom
00:09:22of those who are in authority,
00:09:25even I will be interested to see what response
00:09:26that they will give to it.
00:09:27But what I can say, at least from where I sit, Mark,
00:09:30is definitely disturbing news.
00:09:31And just listening to you too,
00:09:35I'm seeing your expression as well.
00:09:37And you know, you,
00:09:39and I'm hoping that law enforcement are listening,
00:09:41you have basically presented us with a situation
00:09:43where it's calling for probing the community
00:09:46and the neighborhood to really get a victimology
00:09:48of really who that individual was,
00:09:50why the criminal element feels so deliberate
00:09:53to chase that man out of the public road,
00:09:55into his private dwelling.
00:09:57There must be something that is important
00:09:58that we need to know.
00:09:59So I think that hence why I made the call for the community
00:10:02to basically give us,
00:10:05if they are aware of what may be a possible motive,
00:10:07because next thing you know, Mark,
00:10:08it is really deeply embedded
00:10:09in gang and gang-related activities.
00:10:11We don't know whether there are other persons
00:10:13who may be on the list.
00:10:14So it's important for that societal approach
00:10:17and to basically move law enforcement
00:10:20to take the necessary action that they are required to take.
00:10:22I just want us to take a listen to Mr. Francis,
00:10:25well, a relative, sorry, a friend of the family,
00:10:28as well as a community activist
00:10:30and a former councilor of the area.
00:10:34This is heartless, what it is.
00:10:37Words can't describe what's going on here.
00:10:39I mean,
00:10:42any community night, you know,
00:10:43you're sure to get,
00:10:44we go to the last stop,
00:10:46you're sure to get something in.
00:10:49And when I heard last night, it was really,
00:10:52and then the baby boy, God, that was really heartless.
00:10:56I mean, sadly.
00:10:58You know, just last night,
00:11:00a friend and I were talking just before,
00:11:01we didn't know this was going to happen.
00:11:03I was about, we had American celebrations last night.
00:11:07We were talking about it,
00:11:08talking about the crime situation,
00:11:09and we're saying, you know,
00:11:12like people just doing that out of spite,
00:11:14just running into people's homes
00:11:15and taking what they want.
00:11:16You know, some time ago,
00:11:17they had a total policing when they shot down the country.
00:11:20Why they don't bring back that?
00:11:22I mean, how roadblocks,
00:11:23I can't remember the last time
00:11:24there was a roadblock on this road.
00:11:25Because the criminals, they're moving in vehicles.
00:11:27They're walking, they're flying,
00:11:29because they're walking in.
00:11:30So if there's a roadblock ever so often,
00:11:32we will, we will,
00:11:33I mean, we'll be comfortable with the inconvenience,
00:11:36because we're not stranded in a real estate.
00:11:40I think you should respond to that.
00:11:41Well, you know, Mark,
00:11:43what I always respect is that
00:11:44that is the expression coming from the ground.
00:11:46And not only the ground,
00:11:47but in close proximity to where that incident
00:11:49would have occurred.
00:11:50You know, you have, and again,
00:11:52the citizen have identified some gaps,
00:11:57but reference to,
00:11:58and if in fact there's any empirical data,
00:12:01he has indicated not seen any roadblock,
00:12:03not seen any exercise.
00:12:04And I think that when you are seeing things like that,
00:12:07it's important for the divisional commanders,
00:12:09the regional commanders,
00:12:10and by extension,
00:12:11the executive to really look and see
00:12:13whether in fact, that in fact,
00:12:15it's unfolding in that particular area.
00:12:17And if in fact it's happening,
00:12:19you need to review that immediately.
00:12:21I think that Trinidad and Tobago
00:12:22is looking for a quick response
00:12:23to that particular matter, Mark,
00:12:26but just to run across a little bit to the anti-gang.
00:12:29I know that you were very active with reference
00:12:34to looking at organized crime and gang
00:12:36in Trinidad and Tobago with these special reports.
00:12:37And I think that when you look at the long title
00:12:39of that anti-gang legislation
00:12:41that we have called for in Trinidad and Tobago,
00:12:43you know, why we have used it in certain aspects,
00:12:47it's interesting to see what the long title say.
00:12:50The long title is about discouraging
00:12:51and suppressing gang membership.
00:12:53How do you discourage and suppress gang membership?
00:12:56That's a very, very important question
00:12:58that we need to answer,
00:13:00both from a hard policing and from a soft policing.
00:13:03So again, I acknowledge and I receive firmly
00:13:07the statements of that particular citizen.
00:13:09We'll surely speak about that a little later
00:13:11in the program, but let's again,
00:13:13take a listen to other deeper things
00:13:16that Mr. Paul also added.
00:13:20You know, now we have to stay quiet.
00:13:22This thing frightening, this thing.
00:13:24The partner's son, you know, and grandchildren.
00:13:29Seems to have some technical difficulties there.
00:13:32But I think based on listening to the interview
00:13:35in totality, he did ask essentially,
00:13:41is the commissioner of police,
00:13:42and by extension, the minister of national security,
00:13:45really feeling what the average citizen is feeling?
00:13:51Are they?
00:13:52Are they even at all?
00:13:53Lip service is one thing,
00:13:55but being on the ground, seeing this happening
00:13:59over and over daily to the average person,
00:14:04how does that add up to those that sit up here?
00:14:08Well, Mark, I think that you are well-poised.
00:14:10You are well-poised and well-placed
00:14:12to perhaps point that question
00:14:14and perhaps to get the opportunity to see the response.
00:14:17So I think that, you know, I cannot say
00:14:19what may be in the minds and hearts
00:14:20of those particular leaders, you know,
00:14:23but I think that you are well-placed
00:14:24to represent the public interest in relation to that.
00:14:27Thanks a lot, Koppel, Zeyu, Ali,
00:14:29and of course, let's put our headlines now.
00:14:33You're welcome.
00:15:33So we're looking now at some of the headlines
00:15:37over the last 24 hours.
00:15:39And now we want to take a look at, you know,
00:15:42some of the images, of course, are very disturbing.
00:15:45A young woman lost her life yesterday.
00:15:48Her boyfriend was driving this vehicle
00:15:51in the area of Kandi Village, if memory serves me right.
00:15:55And it is said that, you know,
00:15:59and it is said that he,
00:16:02when he purchased the vehicle yesterday,
00:16:05and some persons would have captured him
00:16:08actually driving the vehicle prior to the accident.
00:16:12And you'll get some of the images here.
00:16:16From just observation, the front of it showed,
00:16:19it seems that it had an intercooler.
00:16:21You know, it allows for greater velocity of these vehicles.
00:16:24Yes.
00:16:25Where the airflow is much larger, so you can...
00:16:28So he was actually really going at some breakneck speed, so to speak.
00:16:34I don't know if you can see it here.
00:16:38And that's on a major road.
00:16:42Maybe a minor road.
00:16:47Unfortunately, the young lady lost her life,
00:16:50and he is now in hospital.
00:16:52Well, Mark, you know, just looking at the video,
00:16:54and I know that it may be subject to some police focus
00:16:58or investigation of MSA, but again,
00:17:00you know, it's again a situation that we have to express condolences
00:17:04to the person who lost their life and their family,
00:17:06or families, as the case may be.
00:17:08But again, what do you say
00:17:11to persons who should be mature
00:17:13when they are obtaining a driver's license?
00:17:15Maybe it's a time, and we may have spoken about this,
00:17:18maybe we need to probably look and see, okay,
00:17:20is it that our process for obtaining driver's permit,
00:17:22is it just a simple process of a regulation, a driving test,
00:17:24and then, you know, you are given the permission to drive,
00:17:27or is it that we may have to go further now to say, okay,
00:17:31things like defensive driving, you know,
00:17:33more advice given to motorists,
00:17:35and even looking from a motor vehicle context,
00:17:39the specifics of that particular vehicle,
00:17:40the question is, are we in a position to say,
00:17:43and probably when the motor vehicle inspector inspects that vehicle,
00:17:47we'll see whether, in fact, it was roadworthy,
00:17:49or whether, in fact, any other defects that vehicle may have had,
00:17:53but just the fact that we are seeing on that particular road,
00:17:56I don't know what may have been the speed limit,
00:17:58but you are seeing a deliberate attempt or deliberate act.
00:18:01Clearly, that is the speed limit.
00:18:03That would have probably been twice the speed limit,
00:18:05because it looks like not a highway or even a major road.
00:18:09I would want to believe it at least 40 to 60.
00:18:14And that goes smack into dangerous driving,
00:18:16not even driving without due care and attention,
00:18:18dangerous driving where there is a foreseeability
00:18:20that if that vehicle should come into contact,
00:18:22or even if it lost control,
00:18:23you are foreseeing death or very serious injuries,
00:18:26and, you know, here is the result.
00:18:28So, again, Mark, I will call on the transport commissioner
00:18:30to probably have a look and see whether, in fact,
00:18:33that process of obtaining driver's permit,
00:18:35or maybe every so often that we, you know,
00:18:37bring persons back, you know, from a public awareness context,
00:18:40you know, just keep reminding them,
00:18:42but, you know, what can we say to persons
00:18:44who should be acting responsibly on the nation roads?
00:18:46Definitely.
00:18:47And we want to encourage callers to call us today
00:18:51and have your say, 623-1711,
00:18:55extensions 1992, 1993, and 1997.
00:19:00Of course, if you have any questions for Corporal Ali,
00:19:03he will be more than willing to answer them
00:19:04from the legal perspective.
00:19:06So, we'll take a short break, and we'll be right back.
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00:21:39Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
00:21:41I'm your host, Mark Bassan,
00:21:42joined by Corporal Ze Ali,
00:21:44here today on Legally Minded Wednesday, of course.
00:21:49And we'll just continue our discussion.
00:21:52Corporal Ali was speaking in reference to gangs,
00:21:55and it's quite interesting.
00:21:57We don't want to exhaust...
00:21:58It's not an exhaustive topic.
00:21:59Yes.
00:22:00Because there's so much that we can learn
00:22:02about gangs and their operations here in Trinidad and Tobago
00:22:06from a legal standpoint as well.
00:22:07Yes.
00:22:08And I want to ask, off the cuff,
00:22:11does the TTPS have these gangs marked?
00:22:15What I can say at this time, Mark,
00:22:16is that there is some intelligence
00:22:18that will assist in the identification of gangs
00:22:23and the modus operandi of some of the gangs
00:22:25that we are seeing in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:22:27So to answer you,
00:22:28yes, there is something that exists.
00:22:30But like in anything else,
00:22:31gangs are very dynamic.
00:22:33So you may have intelligence
00:22:34that may be identifying at this stage five gangs,
00:22:36just by way of reference.
00:22:37By the time you wake up tomorrow morning,
00:22:39you may realize there's a fraction,
00:22:40and you have a sixth gang.
00:22:41So yes, there's intelligence.
00:22:43Yes, we can identify certain organized syndicates.
00:22:46Yes, we have an understanding
00:22:48of the modus operandi for particular gangs.
00:22:50But there's still a lot of work to be done
00:22:52to really get us to the stage where we are making,
00:22:54and this is an important point,
00:22:55converting the intelligence to evidence
00:22:58to be able to prosecute persons.
00:23:00Are gangs using technology that you all are aware of
00:23:03and I know it's a very fundamental question to ask.
00:23:06Yes.
00:23:07And I'm not asking on behalf of myself.
00:23:08I might know the answer on other experts.
00:23:10Yes.
00:23:11But I think for the average citizen,
00:23:12they want to know.
00:23:14Well, definitely.
00:23:15When you have a world that is dominated by social media,
00:23:18Facebook, Instagram, and all the other sites,
00:23:22and we have seen in recent times
00:23:24where there was effective use
00:23:26or continually effective use of social media
00:23:28for simple communication between gangs.
00:23:31And communication in the context
00:23:32of when people can even stretch it to say,
00:23:34okay, is it that the use of these particular platforms
00:23:38is also geared towards the recruitment,
00:23:40making gangs look attractive to choose one over the other.
00:23:43And most importantly here,
00:23:45they are using these mediums to have what?
00:23:47They're conflicts.
00:23:48So from a technology, from a social media context,
00:23:52yes, they are making use of it.
00:23:54I may have to go as far to say
00:23:55that we have seen instances where there are radios,
00:23:59small radios that are using for that level of organization,
00:24:02that communication.
00:24:03So yes, they are in fact using technology
00:24:05to be able to facilitate their activities.
00:24:07But of course, without calling any gang names,
00:24:11I know that there has been in the past
00:24:13over the last couple of months
00:24:15a very intense battle between two particular gangs
00:24:20over social media.
00:24:23Well, Mark, it is public knowledge.
00:24:27And public knowledge to the extent
00:24:29that you are even seen in places
00:24:32where you should not be seen,
00:24:33even in the school system,
00:24:34just before the close of the school term,
00:24:36you are seeing children who are speaking
00:24:39and associating with,
00:24:40and I'll say it publicly here,
00:24:42because the reason why I'm saying it
00:24:43is I want to make a statement on this as well.
00:24:45You're seeing the six and the seven
00:24:48that are very, very active
00:24:50in relation to where that conflict is concerned.
00:24:52And I want to take this opportunity
00:24:53on this platform, Mark.
00:24:55As the school reopens, or about to reopen,
00:24:58parents and guardians,
00:25:00we'd like you all to assist us
00:25:02to be able to educate these young children
00:25:04that where gangs and organized crime
00:25:06is our concern.
00:25:08There's no coming back.
00:25:09And the statistics is very clear.
00:25:11And I hope in the new term
00:25:12that we'll have more opportunity
00:25:13to be able to engage the school system, Mark,
00:25:16to be able to at least prevent
00:25:18that recruitment drive
00:25:21that these gangs are engaging in.
00:25:22So I think it's a very serious matter
00:25:24and we are asking the public to assist us
00:25:26to be able to bring an end to this conflict.
00:25:29And even to the persons
00:25:30who may be associated with six and seven,
00:25:32it's never too late to make a turn,
00:25:34to search yourself,
00:25:35see whether, in fact,
00:25:36it's worth it to be involved in these activities.
00:25:38Okay, I just want to stick up in there.
00:25:40Apparently we have a call on the line.
00:25:41Caller, good afternoon.
00:25:43Good afternoon, Mark,
00:25:44and good afternoon, Corporal Ali.
00:25:46Good afternoon, sir.
00:25:47Good afternoon.
00:25:48Yeah, I have a simple question for Mr. Ali.
00:25:50Mr. Ali's videotapes,
00:25:52I am not sure if that could be evidenced in court,
00:25:55but if it is evidenced in court,
00:25:58I saw a gentleman on TV,
00:26:00two men, one with a revolver,
00:26:02hold up a gyro man,
00:26:04and the partner jumped the copter
00:26:07and take with all the gyro man money.
00:26:09That's him being in a gang.
00:26:11Once two men committing a crime,
00:26:13that is a gang.
00:26:14They could be charged under the gang law.
00:26:16Now, this man looks to the holy mercy.
00:26:18Mark, I plain as I see you on TV,
00:26:20that's how I see the man's face.
00:26:22Click, click, click, click, click.
00:26:23I see the man's face in the video.
00:26:25Yes, and behold,
00:26:26when you reach in front of the court,
00:26:28they charge this man $1,000.
00:26:30$1,000 for the armed robbery,
00:26:33and he just get back the gyro man,
00:26:35the money, take from him,
00:26:36no jail, no bond, nothing,
00:26:37and let this man walk.
00:26:38If you hold me now, Corporal Ali,
00:26:40trying to rip off my seatbelt,
00:26:42I have to pay $1,000 plus the merit point.
00:26:45I ain't rob nobody, you know.
00:26:47But I have to pay $1,000,
00:26:48and I have, again, three merit points.
00:26:50What is it?
00:26:51How is that to be fair to a law-abiding citizen,
00:26:54a hard-working, law-abiding citizen,
00:26:56to see this man, the robber man at hand?
00:26:58But if you see how that gyro man was shaking,
00:27:00I'm not laughing at the man,
00:27:01because I'd rather he shake it, too.
00:27:03But the man hold his hand up in the air,
00:27:04the two bands have gone,
00:27:05and he still have his hand up in the air, you know.
00:27:07Long after they're gone,
00:27:08he still have his two hands up in the air,
00:27:09and he shake it.
00:27:10He shake it.
00:27:11Have a blessed evening,
00:27:12and I wish you no fear.
00:27:14Well, thank you very much for the call, caller.
00:27:16Mark, let me just quickly dissect it.
00:27:18Do I have sufficient time to dissect it?
00:27:19Go ahead.
00:27:20Let me deal with the issue of,
00:27:21and the citizen, again,
00:27:22is calling on what they are seeing being handed down,
00:27:25if in fact it's reported correctly from the judiciary
00:27:27in terms of how they punish that particular crime.
00:27:29And I'm saying that in those circumstances,
00:27:31this is when the prosecution have to become alive.
00:27:34That if you are not satisfied with the sentence
00:27:36that is handed down in a particular case,
00:27:38there are certain options that are available
00:27:40to be able to appeal that sanction
00:27:42to ensure that that crime is punished properly.
00:27:44So that's the first thing I want to deal with,
00:27:46and I'm happy that the caller is bringing it to us.
00:27:48The second thing, I just want to make a distinction
00:27:50in terms of joint enterprise crimes
00:27:52and where we have now the anti-gang.
00:27:54In the anti-gang, you have two or more persons,
00:27:56whether formally or informally organized,
00:27:58who engages in a gang-related activity.
00:28:00Now, the point I want to make here is that
00:28:02formally or informally organized,
00:28:04so you're not getting a situation where that,
00:28:06and I don't want to use Mark.
00:28:07I don't want to use you and I.
00:28:08X and Y decide surreptitiously to say,
00:28:10okay, they're going to commit a crime.
00:28:12But when you look at them, it is maybe a first instance.
00:28:15There's no degree of involvement, no organization.
00:28:18But when you are seeing how they are organized
00:28:20in the way of example, where do they eat?
00:28:22Do they eat together?
00:28:24Do they possess similar symbols?
00:28:27Do they hang out or do they consume a particular drug?
00:28:31Do they possess a particular weapon?
00:28:33Who is receiving instructions from who?
00:28:35That's correct.
00:28:36So when you sort of see organization,
00:28:38we are speaking anti-gang or we should be speaking anti-gang.
00:28:41When you are speaking, there's the one-off crime
00:28:43where there's a joint enterprise.
00:28:45I want us to make that distinction.
00:28:46But Kola, I acknowledge your concern
00:28:49and definitely we will be looking at
00:28:51those issues that you are raising.
00:28:53Thanks for that input, Corporal Ali.
00:28:55But we were talking about gangs and technology
00:28:57and I wanted to inquire from you,
00:29:00what is the TTPS's response to the gangs
00:29:02and the use of their technology?
00:29:04How have you all been able to counteract that?
00:29:07Well, Mark, I don't want to reveal
00:29:09the investigative strategy as a countermeasure.
00:29:12But what I can say to you is that
00:29:13there's a lot of strategic thinking,
00:29:16a lot of tactical thinking that has been looked at
00:29:20in relation to trying to detect, trying to disrupt
00:29:23and trying to probably, in some cases,
00:29:25even use it as evidence
00:29:26for the reference of some of our inquiry.
00:29:28But I would not go to the extent to say,
00:29:29okay, we are doing X or we are doing Y
00:29:31in order to protect the integrity of those inquiries.
00:29:33Well, of course, I just wanted to find out
00:29:36is the TTPS using gang intelligence techniques
00:29:40in the most effective way?
00:29:41Well, we are using the anti-gang legislation
00:29:45to a certain degree
00:29:46and there's always room for improvement.
00:29:48And the cases that have been placed before the court
00:29:50and even the investigations that have been done,
00:29:52we have seen areas that we need to improve on.
00:29:54And we are also engaging our international partners
00:29:57to see ways in which we can improve it.
00:29:59So we are not perfect, but we are in fact making use of it
00:30:02and the statistics will show in recent times,
00:30:04I'm sure that you would have been aware
00:30:05and the public that several persons from various gangs
00:30:08were charged and placed before the courts
00:30:10of Trinidad and Tobago.
00:30:11So we are using it,
00:30:12but there's always room for improvement.
00:30:13Of course.
00:30:14Great.
00:30:15I think we have another call on the line.
00:30:16Caller, good afternoon.
00:30:18Good afternoon.
00:30:19Good afternoon, ma'am.
00:30:21Good afternoon. Go ahead.
00:30:22Ma'am, first of all, I want to congratulate you
00:30:25for the acknowledgement you got recently,
00:30:27Officer Ali.
00:30:30Yes, ma'am.
00:30:31My first point,
00:30:33you know, we're always talking about the officers
00:30:35who wear their body cameras and whatever.
00:30:38And I saw where when they're doing an investigation,
00:30:41the PCS doing an investigation,
00:30:44what the person said was,
00:30:46he's yet to receive any footage from the police officers
00:30:49with body-worn cameras,
00:30:51and that can assist in his proofs until he's 37 feet away.
00:30:55But I also saw where the welfare officer said
00:30:59there was no legal obligation for the police
00:31:02to share video footage with the PCS.
00:31:04So I want to know what should we accept with that,
00:31:08because, you know, we're always talking about
00:31:10this body cam, this body cam, whatever.
00:31:12That's my first point.
00:31:13My second point is,
00:31:17I'm sure both of you, somebody heard it,
00:31:20a voice notice going around
00:31:23where somebody is threatening police.
00:31:25That person sounded worse than an extortionist.
00:31:28What he will do, police, and the guns they have,
00:31:31and they will set them up,
00:31:32and when the vehicles come, block them,
00:31:34and all sorts of things that person said,
00:31:37and what they'll do with their family and all that.
00:31:39I hope that some intelligence has been thinking,
00:31:42and the guest actors who are making all those threats,
00:31:44because the person was also saying about
00:31:46burning down government buildings and all that.
00:31:49So something has really run that person even worse
00:31:51than the extortionist.
00:31:52And my last point is,
00:31:54there was a prisoner who escaped.
00:31:56What is the latest about?
00:31:57Have they caught him or whatever else?
00:31:59Thank you very much.
00:32:00Have a blessed evening, all of you.
00:32:02Well, Mark, again, thank you, Kola.
00:32:04Three beautiful issues.
00:32:06And again, do we have time to dissect them, Mark?
00:32:08Go ahead.
00:32:09Okay, so let's look at it from a reverse order.
00:32:12With reference to the escapee,
00:32:15at this time, based on my last update,
00:32:17this person is still at large.
00:32:19And again, I'll have to use this platform
00:32:20to call on members of the public
00:32:22if they have intelligence information
00:32:24that may assist in bringing that person
00:32:26back into state prison.
00:32:28Feel free to exercise that option.
00:32:31You need to assist us as well.
00:32:33And I just want to remind citizens
00:32:34or persons who may be inclined
00:32:36to harbor those persons.
00:32:38Under the Criminal Law,
00:32:39if you are harboring a person
00:32:40where you are impeding that prosecution
00:32:42of that individual,
00:32:43you yourself can be contributing to criminal law.
00:32:45So that is the issue I want to deal with.
00:32:47The issue with reference to body cam, Mark,
00:32:50I want to say publicly that
00:32:51if the commissioner's instructions
00:32:53to where body cam is enshrined
00:32:55in a departmental order,
00:32:57then we, our discipline service
00:32:59and police officers,
00:33:00should be complying with the instructions.
00:33:02And if there is a non-compliance
00:33:04with the instruction,
00:33:05there must be compelling reasons
00:33:06for not complying with the instructions.
00:33:08I do not want to delve too deep into it.
00:33:10I know that certain deputy commissioners
00:33:12are making statements.
00:33:13They have made statements on it.
00:33:14I just want to say,
00:33:15once an instruction is given,
00:33:16when the cameras are available,
00:33:18it's our discipline service
00:33:20and we should be wearing the cameras.
00:33:21In relation to the powers of the PCA,
00:33:23from my respectful reading,
00:33:24I think that the director, Mr. West,
00:33:26is on point with reference to the PCA powers
00:33:30under that legislation.
00:33:31That legislation is very powerful.
00:33:34It's very wide.
00:33:35And basically,
00:33:36if body cams are captured
00:33:37under the police service framework,
00:33:39and in this context,
00:33:41there is recording where
00:33:42you didn't went to a river line.
00:33:44You went to execute official duty.
00:33:46Then any requests, in my view,
00:33:48will be with any spirit and intent
00:33:50of that particular legislation
00:33:51until I see otherwise.
00:33:53And I think there was a first point
00:33:56that she made with reference to the...
00:33:59I myself am trying to recall.
00:34:01Yeah.
00:34:02The audio that is circulating
00:34:05when the person is threatening police.
00:34:07I want to say to members of the public,
00:34:08we have advised the police cyber crime
00:34:10to have a look at that
00:34:11to see whether in fact it's still dated
00:34:13or whether in fact it's a current audio.
00:34:15But what I will say
00:34:16that those who may be in a position
00:34:17to recognize that voice,
00:34:19and I want to repeat,
00:34:20any person who may be in a position
00:34:22to recognize that voice,
00:34:23please let us have the information
00:34:26because let us go back
00:34:27to the first matter that you spoke about.
00:34:29If in fact that has any merit in it,
00:34:33you do not know
00:34:34where those persons may meet law enforcement
00:34:36and which law-abiding citizen
00:34:37will be in the middle
00:34:38between law enforcement
00:34:39and those individuals.
00:34:40So members of the public,
00:34:41let us be mature in our thinking
00:34:43and let us all try to promote
00:34:44our public safety and security
00:34:45that we all deserve to enjoy.
00:34:47Great.
00:34:48Good stuff there, Corporal.
00:34:49We have to take a short break
00:34:51but we will continue after this.
00:34:53Stay with us.
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00:38:01Welcome back to Beyond the Tape
00:38:03and of course I want to encourage all
00:38:06the people that are looking on
00:38:08to call us at 623-1711
00:38:10extensions 1992, 1993, and 1997.
00:38:15It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays
00:38:17and we're here with Corporal Ali
00:38:19and we were having a discussion
00:38:21of course about gangs
00:38:23and we were responding to
00:38:25that latest voice clip
00:38:27that the caller alluded to
00:38:29about extortion
00:38:31and
00:38:33they go hand in hand of course
00:38:34because some of these gangs
00:38:35are actually involved in extortion.
00:38:37Yes.
00:38:38We would agree.
00:38:39Is it that the police
00:38:41and other stakeholders sit regularly
00:38:43and share meaningful information
00:38:45or evidence
00:38:47to arrest gang members?
00:38:49Is that something,
00:38:50I know you will not always publicize it
00:38:52but is it something that has been done
00:38:53intrinsically?
00:38:55Well what I can say Mark
00:38:56is that the Deputy Commissioner
00:38:58Intelligence and Investigation
00:39:00and also to a certain extent
00:39:01the Deputy Commissioner Operations
00:39:03we have gang units
00:39:04that are in various regions
00:39:06and divisions.
00:39:07So from time to time
00:39:08these units will meet
00:39:09and have discussions
00:39:10in relation to trends
00:39:12reports that are unfolding
00:39:14and in order to come up with strategies
00:39:16to be able to respond
00:39:17to disrupt it.
00:39:18So yes there are
00:39:20we normally refer to them
00:39:21as gang comstats
00:39:22basically in summary.
00:39:23So yes there are discussions
00:39:24but like I said
00:39:26there's always room for improvement
00:39:28and I think that
00:39:30and I said this on this show many times
00:39:32that fluidity that is required
00:39:34so that let's say for example
00:39:35you have a struck gang comstat
00:39:37weekly.
00:39:38The question is
00:39:39let's say you had one today
00:39:40what if there's an upsurge tomorrow?
00:39:42Then it may require
00:39:43what one on Friday?
00:39:44Or one immediately tomorrow?
00:39:46So it's important for us
00:39:47to have that fluid
00:39:48dynamic approach
00:39:49in relation to where gangs are concerned
00:39:50because they are very unpredictable.
00:39:52Well you did talk about
00:39:53having data and so on
00:39:55is it that
00:39:56you will have an analyst
00:39:57in every station or division
00:39:59to assist investigators
00:40:00to analyse the information
00:40:02and if so why not?
00:40:03Or if you do
00:40:04what is the value of them?
00:40:08Beautiful question Mark
00:40:09and you know
00:40:10you're looking at the capacity
00:40:12and capability of the police service
00:40:13and I wish that we can
00:40:14I could have answered it
00:40:15and said that every station
00:40:16or every shift
00:40:17had a qualified analyst
00:40:19and when you're using the word analyst
00:40:21it's important to also recognise that
00:40:24you know the various ranks
00:40:25corporals, sergeants, inspectors
00:40:27ASP, superintendent and senior sups
00:40:29they must see themselves
00:40:30in the first instance
00:40:31as persons in a position
00:40:32to be able to
00:40:33have some level of analysis
00:40:34being done in relation
00:40:35to what's happening around them
00:40:36and then now you have
00:40:37the technocrats
00:40:38who will come in now
00:40:39to be able to share their expertise
00:40:40to determine okay
00:40:41where we may be most effective
00:40:42where the intelligence
00:40:43may be suggesting
00:40:44that there's operation
00:40:45so yes
00:40:46the specialist section
00:40:47enjoy that comfort
00:40:48in terms of
00:40:49that analytical skill
00:40:51and you know
00:40:52I hope that you know
00:40:53a day will come
00:40:54that every station
00:40:55will have that necessary expertise
00:40:56to be able to respond
00:40:57in the way we should.
00:40:58Great.
00:40:59I mean
00:41:00we see from time to time
00:41:01that there are
00:41:02a couple
00:41:03like repeat offenders
00:41:04would come out
00:41:05right
00:41:06and for the same
00:41:07they might be held
00:41:08later on
00:41:09maybe a week
00:41:10maybe a month
00:41:11down the road
00:41:12or six months down the road
00:41:13is it that
00:41:14repeat offenders
00:41:15my question
00:41:16has been monitored
00:41:17and if so
00:41:18why are they
00:41:19not being
00:41:20why are they
00:41:21not arrested
00:41:22or things put in place
00:41:23to prevent the commission
00:41:24of further crimes
00:41:25by these individuals?
00:41:26Mark
00:41:27I don't know
00:41:28whether you are
00:41:29in my mind
00:41:30I don't know
00:41:31whether you have any
00:41:32discussions
00:41:33in recent discussions
00:41:34but
00:41:35I think that question
00:41:36is timely
00:41:37and why it's timely
00:41:38let's look at it
00:41:39from a legislative context
00:41:40the parliament
00:41:41has now given us
00:41:42an amendment
00:41:43to the bailout
00:41:442024
00:41:45and in that particular
00:41:46amendment to the bailout
00:41:47it actually places
00:41:48what we call
00:41:49a reverse burden
00:41:50on persons
00:41:51who are charged
00:41:52to show
00:41:53either exceptional circumstances
00:41:54or sufficient cause
00:41:55as to why
00:41:56the bailout
00:41:57is not
00:41:58in effect
00:41:59and that
00:42:00is
00:42:01why
00:42:02it's not
00:42:03in effect
00:42:04it's not
00:42:05in effect
00:42:06it's not
00:42:07in effect
00:42:08it's not
00:42:09in effect
00:42:10it's not
00:42:11in effect
00:42:12it's not
00:42:13in effect
00:42:14it's not
00:42:15in effect
00:42:16it's not
00:42:17in effect
00:42:18it's not
00:42:19in effect
00:42:20it's not
00:42:21in effect
00:42:22it's not
00:42:23in effect
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00:42:25in effect
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00:42:27in effect
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00:42:29in effect
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00:42:31in effect
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00:42:33in effect
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00:42:35in effect
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00:42:37in effect
00:42:38it's not
00:42:39in effect
00:42:40it's not
00:42:41in effect
00:42:42it's not
00:42:43in effect
00:42:44it's not
00:42:45in effect
00:42:46it's not
00:42:47in effect
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00:42:49in effect
00:42:50it's not
00:42:51in effect
00:42:52it's not
00:42:53in effect
00:42:54it's not
00:42:55in effect
00:42:56it's not
00:42:57in effect
00:42:58it's not
00:42:59in effect
00:43:00it's not
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00:43:02it's not
00:43:03in effect
00:43:04it's not
00:43:05in effect
00:43:06it's not
00:43:07in effect
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00:43:09in effect
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00:43:11in effect
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00:43:13in effect
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00:43:15in effect
00:43:16it's not
00:43:17in effect
00:43:18it's not
00:43:19in effect
00:43:20it's not
00:43:21in effect
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00:43:23in effect
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00:43:25in effect
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00:43:27in effect
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00:43:29in effect
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00:43:31in effect
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00:43:33in effect
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00:43:35in effect
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00:43:37in effect
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00:43:39in effect
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00:43:41in effect
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00:43:43in effect
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00:43:45in effect
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00:43:47in effect
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00:43:49in effect
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00:43:51in effect
00:43:52it's not
00:43:53in effect
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00:43:55in effect
00:43:56it's not
00:43:57in effect
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00:43:59in effect
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00:44:01in effect
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00:44:03in effect
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00:44:05in effect
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00:44:07in effect
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00:44:09in effect
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00:44:11in effect
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00:44:13in effect
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00:44:15in effect
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00:44:17in effect
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00:44:20it's not
00:44:21in effect
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00:44:25in effect
00:44:26it's not
00:44:27in effect
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00:44:29in effect
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00:44:31in effect
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00:44:33in effect
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00:44:35in effect
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00:44:37in effect
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00:44:41in effect
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00:44:43in effect
00:44:44it's not
00:44:45in effect
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00:44:49in effect
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00:44:51in effect
00:44:52it's not
00:44:53in effect
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00:44:55in effect
00:44:56it's not
00:44:57in effect
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00:45:02it's not
00:45:03in effect
00:45:04it's not
00:45:05in effect
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00:45:10it's not
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00:45:12it's not
00:45:13in effect
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00:45:15in effect
00:45:16it's not
00:45:17in effect
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00:45:19in effect
00:45:20it's not
00:45:21in effect
00:45:22it's not
00:45:23in effect
00:45:24it's not
00:45:25in effect
00:45:26it's not
00:45:27in effect
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00:45:29in effect
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00:45:31in effect
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00:45:33in effect
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00:45:35in effect
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00:45:37in effect
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00:45:39in effect
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00:45:41in effect
00:45:42it's not
00:45:43in effect
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00:45:45in effect
00:45:46it's not
00:45:47in effect
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00:45:49in effect
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00:45:51in effect
00:45:52it's not
00:45:53in effect
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00:45:55in effect
00:45:56it's not
00:45:57in effect
00:45:58it's not
00:45:59in effect
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00:46:10it's not
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00:46:12it's not
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00:46:20it's not
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00:46:22it's not
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00:46:26it's not
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00:46:30it's not
00:46:31in effect
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00:46:33in effect
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00:46:35in effect
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00:46:37in effect
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00:46:40it's not
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00:46:43in effect
00:46:44it's not
00:46:45in effect
00:46:46it's not
00:46:47in effect
00:46:48it's not
00:46:49in effect
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00:46:51in effect
00:46:52it's not
00:46:53in effect
00:46:54it's not
00:46:55in effect
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00:46:57in effect
00:46:58it's not
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00:47:00it's not
00:47:01in effect
00:47:02it's not
00:47:03in effect
00:47:04it's not
00:47:05in effect
00:47:06it's not
00:47:07in effect
00:47:08it's not
00:47:09in effect
00:47:10it's not
00:47:11in effect
00:47:12it's not
00:47:13in effect
00:47:14it's not
00:47:15in effect
00:47:16it's not
00:47:17in effect
00:47:18it's not
00:47:19in effect
00:47:20it's not
00:47:21in effect
00:47:22it's not
00:47:23in effect
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00:47:25in effect
00:47:26it's not
00:47:27in effect
00:47:28it's not
00:47:29in effect
00:47:30it's not
00:47:31in effect
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00:47:33in effect
00:47:34it's not
00:47:35in effect
00:47:36it's not
00:47:37in effect
00:47:38it's not
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00:47:40it's not
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00:47:43in effect
00:47:44it's not
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00:47:47in effect
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00:47:49in effect
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00:47:51in effect
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00:47:53in effect
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00:47:55in effect
00:47:56it's not
00:47:57in effect
00:47:58it's not
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00:48:02it's not
00:48:03in effect
00:48:04it's not
00:48:05in effect
00:48:06it's not
00:48:07in effect
00:48:08it's not
00:48:09in effect
00:48:10it's not
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00:48:12it's not
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00:48:14it's not
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00:48:16it's not
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00:48:18it's not
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00:48:20it's not
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00:48:22it's not
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00:48:24it's not
00:48:25in effect
00:48:26it's not
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00:48:28it's not
00:48:29in effect
00:48:30it's not
00:48:31in effect
00:48:32it's not
00:48:33in effect
00:48:34it's not
00:48:35in effect
00:48:36it's not
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00:48:38it's not
00:48:39in effect
00:48:40it's not
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00:48:42it's not
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00:48:44it's not
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00:48:46it's not
00:48:47in effect
00:48:48it's not
00:48:49in effect
00:48:50it's not
00:48:51in effect
00:48:52it's not
00:48:53in effect
00:48:54it's not
00:48:55in effect
00:48:56it's not
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00:48:58it's not
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00:49:02it's not
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00:49:04it's not
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00:49:06it's not
00:49:07in effect
00:49:08it's not
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00:49:10it's not
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00:49:12it's not
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00:49:16it's not
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00:49:26it's not
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00:49:30it's not
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00:49:40it's not
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00:49:48it's not
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00:49:54it's not
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00:50:00it's not
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00:50:02it's not
00:50:03in effect
00:50:04it's not
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00:50:06it's not
00:50:07in effect
00:50:08it's not
00:50:09in effect
00:50:10it's not
00:50:11in effect
00:50:12it's not
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00:50:14it's not
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00:50:16it's not
00:50:17in effect
00:50:18it's not
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00:50:20it's not
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00:50:22it's not
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00:50:24it's not
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00:50:26it's not
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00:50:28it's not
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00:50:30it's not
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00:50:32it's not
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00:50:34it's not
00:50:35in effect
00:50:36it's not
00:50:37in effect
00:50:38it's not
00:50:39in effect
00:50:40it's not
00:50:41in effect
00:50:42it's not
00:50:43in effect
00:50:44it's not
00:50:45in effect
00:50:46it's not
00:50:47in effect
00:50:48it's not
00:50:49in effect
00:50:50it's not
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00:50:52it's not
00:50:53in effect
00:50:54it's not
00:50:55in effect
00:50:56it's not
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00:50:58it's not
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00:51:00it's not
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00:51:02it's not
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00:51:04it's not
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00:51:06it's not
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00:51:08it's not
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00:51:10it's not
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00:51:12it's not
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00:51:14it's not
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00:51:16it's not
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00:51:18it's not
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00:51:20it's not
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00:51:22it's not
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00:51:24it's not
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00:51:26it's not
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00:51:30it's not
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00:51:36it's not
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00:51:38it's not
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00:51:40it's not
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00:51:42it's not
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00:51:44it's not
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00:51:46it's not
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00:51:48it's not
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00:51:50it's not
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00:51:52it's not
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00:51:54it's not
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00:51:56it's not
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00:51:58it's not
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00:52:06it's not
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00:52:08it's not
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00:52:10it's not
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00:52:12it's not
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00:52:14it's not
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00:52:16it's not
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00:52:18it's not
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00:52:20it's not
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00:52:22it's not
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00:52:26it's not
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00:52:28it's not
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00:52:32it's not
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00:52:38it's not
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00:52:44it's not
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00:52:46it's not
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00:52:48it's not
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00:52:56it's not
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00:53:06it's not
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00:53:08it's not
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00:53:10it's not
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00:53:12it's not
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00:53:14it's not
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00:53:16it's not
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00:53:20it's not
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00:53:22it's not
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00:53:26it's not
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00:53:28it's not
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00:53:30it's not
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00:53:38it's not
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00:53:40it's not
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00:53:48it's not
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00:54:16it's not
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00:54:18it's not
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00:54:20it's not
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00:54:44it's not
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00:54:52it's not
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00:54:54it's not
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00:55:16it's not
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00:55:20it's not
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00:55:26it's not
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00:56:08it's not
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00:56:10it's not
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00:56:12it's not
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00:56:16it's not
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00:56:18it's not
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00:56:20it's not
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00:56:22it's not
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00:56:26it's not
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00:56:28it's not
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00:56:36it's not
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00:56:38it's not
00:56:39in effect
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00:57:07in effect
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00:57:09in effect
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00:57:11in effect
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00:57:15in effect
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00:57:19in effect
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00:57:25in effect
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00:57:27in effect
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00:57:37in effect
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00:57:41in effect
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00:57:43in effect
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00:57:45in effect
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00:57:47in effect
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00:57:49in effect
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00:57:51in effect
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00:57:53in effect
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00:57:59in effect
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00:58:01in effect
00:58:02it's not
00:58:03in effect
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00:58:05in effect
00:58:06it's not
00:58:07in effect
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00:58:09in effect
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00:58:11in effect
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00:58:13in effect
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00:58:15in effect
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00:58:17in effect
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00:58:25in effect
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00:58:27in effect
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00:58:31in effect
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01:01:55in effect
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01:02:51in effect
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01:02:53in effect
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01:02:55in effect
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01:02:57in effect
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01:02:59in effect
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01:03:05in effect
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01:03:09in effect
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01:03:11in effect
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01:03:13in effect
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01:03:15in effect
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01:03:17in effect
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01:03:19in effect
01:03:20it's not
01:03:21in effect
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01:03:23in effect
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01:03:25in effect
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01:03:27in effect
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01:03:31in effect
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01:03:33in effect
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01:03:35in effect
01:03:36it's not
01:03:37in effect
01:03:38it's not
01:03:39in effect
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01:03:41in effect
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01:03:43in effect
01:03:44it's not
01:03:45in effect
01:03:46it's not
01:03:47in effect
01:03:48it's not
01:03:49in effect
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01:03:51in effect
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01:03:53in effect
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01:03:55in effect
01:03:56it's not
01:03:57in effect
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01:03:59in effect
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01:04:05in effect
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01:04:07in effect
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01:04:09in effect
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