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00:02:45 It is Wednesday, a very special good afternoon Trinidad and Tobago.
00:02:49 I'm Marlon Hopkinson, as always, welcome to another program of Beyond the Tape on TV6.
00:02:53 It's a beautiful day in Port of Spain, man.
00:02:57 A good day to take a walk in Port of Spain, you know.
00:02:59 And then head up Abercrombie Street.
00:03:02 And then head up to the savannah, you know.
00:03:05 And just take in the sights and sounds of this time of the year.
00:03:09 It's a beautiful time of the year, you know.
00:03:12 And listening to the pan music coming in from the distance.
00:03:16 And people in their feathers.
00:03:17 You see, you wouldn't understand that.
00:03:19 I've seen it now. And people in their feathers, boy.
00:03:23 Yeah.
00:03:24 Well, I don't have to imagine, you know. I will be right there.
00:03:27 I know. I will have to imagine.
00:03:29 Well, you can. You can. That is your job, to imagine.
00:03:32 Yeah. Let me ask you.
00:03:34 The senior superintendent of the IETF, Roger D. Alexander, he said,
00:03:37 "So what about police officers who like Carnival, boy?"
00:03:40 What do they go do? What do they do?
00:03:43 Some of them might be given the opportunity to maneuver for a short time.
00:03:49 Right.
00:03:51 So they are afforded that?
00:03:54 Let's say you're involved in a steel band.
00:03:57 Or you're involved in a mass band.
00:03:59 And you can make an argument, look.
00:04:02 No, no, no, no, no.
00:04:04 You make arrangements.
00:04:05 You have to make arrangements according to how your duty falls.
00:04:09 Okay.
00:04:10 So if you know that you're off, let's say you work Juvie morning
00:04:15 and you're off from 2 o'clock in the evening,
00:04:18 probably you can night-mask the place.
00:04:20 Right. Okay.
00:04:21 And come back the following day and work until stand-down as the case may be.
00:04:24 Okay.
00:04:25 It depends on how your duty falls.
00:04:26 We are not against people for doing that.
00:04:28 We are not trying to be unfortunate?
00:04:30 What we try to avoid, though, is persons leaving duty.
00:04:36 Because some persons might be on reserve.
00:04:38 Meaning that if something happens, we call them by name and number,
00:04:43 and we are ready to treat the situation.
00:04:46 Man, you see that work, or they could keep that.
00:04:48 Yeah, a special good afternoon to our friends in the U.S., in the U.K.,
00:04:51 in Canada, in South Africa, our friends in where again, boy?
00:04:56 The Middle East, not forgetting the men on the camel.
00:04:58 Yeah, a very special good afternoon to all of you.
00:05:00 Marlon, I have to approach Kitchener and tell him,
00:05:05 "Listen, that song that you're singing."
00:05:07 Mr. Vidal.
00:05:09 I have to find -- I wonder if I could find --
00:05:11 I had to call Kitchener's son and find out who is Mr. Vidal.
00:05:14 Yeah.
00:05:15 Yeah.
00:05:17 In this case, Marlon, let me tell you this.
00:05:19 We have no choice.
00:05:21 I wanted to put it in this song.
00:05:22 We have no choice but to work for Cardival.
00:05:24 Go ahead.
00:05:25 Yeah.
00:05:26 We have no choice.
00:05:27 We have no choice but to work in a pandemic.
00:05:30 Is -- all right, except for a few incidents that we would have seen over the years,
00:05:40 but is Carnival, the days of Carnival, a high crime period?
00:05:47 No.
00:05:50 Because even the criminals want to jump up, right?
00:05:52 Yeah, they probably want to flex.
00:05:54 But what I can tell you is this.
00:05:56 It doesn't change the day in question, how we perform our duty,
00:05:59 and are we monitoring persons.
00:06:01 Right.
00:06:02 And I will tell you this.
00:06:03 Our approach is a little different on that day because if we realize that you have intention to disrupt,
00:06:09 then we'll intercept you and disrupt your intentions as it relates to what you intend to disrupt.
00:06:16 Yeah.
00:06:17 Yeah.
00:06:18 I know that there are incidents.
00:06:19 I know that there are incidents.
00:06:21 Right?
00:06:23 And when you're drunk, go home.
00:06:26 Yeah.
00:06:27 Yeah.
00:06:28 I remember a few years ago on the pavement in St. James at 6 o'clock in the morning,
00:06:37 this gentleman, he has a big gold chain on his neck.
00:06:40 I'll never forget that.
00:06:42 And he's lying down on the pavement with his eyes closed.
00:06:45 Six o'clock in the morning, he's knocked out, and two police officers, they're standing over him, protecting him.
00:06:51 Yeah?
00:06:52 They were checking to see if he's up next.
00:06:55 I don't know.
00:06:56 Corporal Zahir Ali is here.
00:06:57 He's here.
00:06:58 Corporal, a very special good afternoon to you.
00:07:00 Welcome.
00:07:01 Let me reciprocate immediately a special good evening to you as well, Marlon, Senior Superintendent.
00:07:06 As usual, my family and beyond the tapes, it is not true that I am to be one of those out of the jurisdiction.
00:07:11 Marlon, let me begin this afternoon by joining the national community to express my deepest condolences
00:07:20 to the family and friends of Mr. Fahzal Karim, a former member of Parliament and Minister in the United National Congress Cabinet.
00:07:35 So, my deepest condolences to the family.
00:07:39 Also, this afternoon, Marlon, let me begin by identifying that over the last week,
00:07:48 I took the opportunity to listen and read several articles by various criminologists.
00:07:58 And on the last program we had, I advocated for the criminologists in the context of their role and functions to be able to assist and guide law enforcement.
00:08:09 In reading those articles, it has forced me to make a statement this afternoon.
00:08:16 All geared towards the best interests of Trinidad and Tobago, I've heard, and I would like to use this opportunity to dismiss if we are embracing that statement or that concept.
00:08:29 Now, that is coming from the criminologists, so let me just make that abundantly clear.
00:08:32 Generally speaking, there is a so-called saying or an appreciation for when there is economic or social issues.
00:08:41 We seem to put social and economic issues to maybe justify and defend persons committing criminal activities.
00:08:49 I wish to categorically state this afternoon that once the rule of law continues to exist, we should not entertain any person who hides behind that veil of economic and social issues to commit crime.
00:09:07 And I want to say that on the basis that many persons that I know, and I also include myself, that they would have passed through difficult times, but did not choose a life of crime.
00:09:21 They persevered and they sought help from the proper places, both from the private sector and both from the public sector.
00:09:30 So I want to begin with that this afternoon, and especially where it's topical in terms of looking at the social intervention, that persons out there should not be hiding behind the veil that because of an economic and a social issue that may be in their particular community, that it gives them the opportunity to commit crime.
00:09:51 Can I intercept you?
00:09:52 Just let me just finish this one part, Senior Superintendent.
00:09:54 So that's one part. I want to dismiss that immediately.
00:09:58 Secondly, and I hope that the people in Trinidad and Tobago also join with me to dismiss that sort of thinking.
00:10:05 Secondly, we have heard the criminologists spoke both in terms of primary and secondary initiatives.
00:10:16 And a question that pops out is when we are speaking about using the term social intervention as a preventative measure, they say let us look at the matters or the issues that may be causing persons to get into crime.
00:10:31 My question to the general public and the professionals, when we're speaking about prevention, prevention must always be considered to be hinged on crime detection, prosecution, and conviction.
00:10:48 There's no better way to prevent crime than crime detection.
00:10:52 Because what you are saying in a sense that if we are detecting crime, prosecuting crime, and convicting persons, persons naturally should be inclined to do what? Not commit crimes.
00:11:01 So that is telling us a very, very, or making a very loud statement in terms of the best crime prevention is crime detection, prosecution, that's successful that is, and conviction.
00:11:11 That's my respectful view.
00:11:13 Last but not least, the criminologists have not answered for us and that's a question that the law enforcement will have to answer.
00:11:20 In terms of the timing of the primary or the secondary strategy, which one comes first?
00:11:26 So that's something that I just want to throw into the domain this afternoon, probably for discussions.
00:11:31 Senior Superintendent, I know you wanted to interject.
00:11:34 Yeah, because I want to agree with you because I want to ask them this.
00:11:39 How does the man with lots and lots and lots of money, why is he too participating in criminal activity?
00:11:48 And that's it.
00:11:49 The same man, the same man, they call on from time to time some big fish and some medium-sized fish and some fish of large magnitude and all of that.
00:11:57 But the persons with large sums of money, why are they? How does that statement really affect them?
00:12:04 I think that's a very interesting perspective as well, where you look at persons who may already have the means.
00:12:09 Now the question that I may want to ask there is that the means that that person have, have they benefited through legal means and now they are looking to go at the unlawful means?
00:12:22 Because you can well find that persons who continue to benefit from crime can be viewed as a person who have, but they continue to pursue illegal means because that's the way of obtaining their monies.
00:12:34 But persons who are legitimate and all of a sudden something hits them and they decide, well, listen, let me compromise a position.
00:12:41 I'm going in a kind of white collar.
00:12:42 So yes, very interesting perspective as well.
00:12:45 All geared towards that question that we are asking, that, oh, the statement that we should be dismissing with immediate effect.
00:12:53 All right. We do have a very interesting video for you. Let's go to that now.
00:12:56 It deals with the attempted assassination of the Bulgarian Prime Minister, Ahmed Dogan.
00:13:04 You saw it?
00:13:07 Do we have audio on it? No, no audio.
00:13:09 Wow. You saw that?
00:13:12 Now, to be honest, in my delivery, I spoke to this on more than one occasion.
00:13:21 One of the things I said, I know sometimes even in Trinidad and Tobago, because I have that experience, that the VIP, which is really the President or the Prime Minister in this case,
00:13:33 he often wants to show the people that he has a level of freeness and independence.
00:13:38 And I have no problem with that.
00:13:40 But Marlon Hopkins, just like what I said with respect to the judge that was attacked recently,
00:13:45 if someone was standing in the vicinity or even over the Prime Minister at the time, he might have been able to intercept this dude.
00:13:55 Luckily for him, the gun did not go off.
00:13:59 But if you are facing difference, look at him standing there.
00:14:04 If the officers were closer, standing even to his rear, and it's a listener, you see that?
00:14:12 He was gone, Mr. Hopkinson. He was gone.
00:14:18 And then the struggle continued right there.
00:14:23 I don't necessarily agree with your statement.
00:14:26 Your statement really is an argument why politicians in this country from time immemorial have behaved in a sort of aloof sort of way,
00:14:42 where they can't touch the normal person out there.
00:14:47 And I think politicians in general need to understand that it is the people who have elected them.
00:14:56 So if Bill Clinton could do it, Barack Obama could do it, and a number of other presidents have done that in the United States,
00:15:04 we can't do that in Trinidad and Tobago.
00:15:07 I have seen situations where the politician had the opportunity to really come down to the level of the people and shake their hands and have a discussion with them.
00:15:20 We have seen it done with Prince Charles when he was the prince. He's the king now.
00:15:25 We have seen it done with Prince William and Prince Harry and whoever.
00:15:29 But we in Trinidad and Tobago, it's people like all of you who just give them information and say, "Well, this one want to do this, and that one want to do this, and stay out of here, and stay out of there, and all kind of foolishness."
00:15:40 That's why when, especially on Independence Day, they pass and they watch you also.
00:15:46 Yeah, up and down.
00:15:48 Mr. Hopkinson, you have to understand this.
00:15:51 Dothishness in this place.
00:15:53 At every level, in terms of security, someone would not be pleased with you, you know, Mr. Hopkinson.
00:16:00 I don't understand that.
00:16:01 Yeah, but that is why I have security.
00:16:02 Whether for religious purposes or statements that you made against your party or something along those lines.
00:16:10 That's why you have a hundred police officers behind you.
00:16:13 You think, and there is the possibility that something could happen, of course, but there's the possibility too that nothing will happen.
00:16:22 Because you have so much security around.
00:16:24 So, what you prefer? You prefer to answer the possibility of something almost happen?
00:16:28 Well, my point is, keep on staying away from the people who have elected you.
00:16:32 Don't touch them.
00:16:33 But, however, you're staying away from me 364 days a year.
00:16:39 But a particular morning, yeah, you're asking me to come out early, have breakfast, come out early.
00:16:47 And then Maxi for me, I come out by the, what do you call it, wall you like to set up, because all you feel is that could deal with crime.
00:16:54 The community center.
00:16:55 Come out by the community center and before that, during the campaign, you're coming wrong and shaking hands.
00:17:01 So, you're afraid for your security then, but you're afraid for security on Independence Day, on Republic Day, all the other days.
00:17:10 Right? And Alexander and them making an argument for that.
00:17:14 Mr. Hopkinson, our duty is to enforce the law.
00:17:16 I had great optimism for you, you know.
00:17:19 I still have for myself.
00:17:20 I have great optimism.
00:17:21 I still have for myself.
00:17:22 That optimism has just fallen and broken, you know.
00:17:25 As an advisor to national security interests, Mr. Hopkinson, let me tell you this.
00:17:32 All you always advising.
00:17:33 That way, we have 570 something murders last year and 600 something murders before.
00:17:39 All you always advising.
00:17:40 All you know, all you should have a bureau of advice.
00:17:44 Go ahead.
00:17:45 But, Mr. Hopkinson, let me tell you this.
00:17:47 I cannot stand by and see something happen like that and don't understand what needs to be put in place to prevent such a thing.
00:17:55 And it might not have nothing to do with the VIP, you know.
00:17:59 Here, it might have nothing to do with him really, you know.
00:18:01 But, I'm supposed to understand my role and responsibility.
00:18:05 That's why when a particular VIP told me to come and go with them to shop.
00:18:11 You remember that?
00:18:12 And I give me the two bags in my hands like this to walk out Excellent City Center.
00:18:17 I said, "I cannot do that, you know."
00:18:18 I said, "Because if somebody reach you, I will not be able to defend you with my hands occupied."
00:18:23 I wonder if the men in black still driving certain VIPs all down in the drain and all kind of thing, in the traffic and all kind of thing.
00:18:29 While they're traveling all 2 o'clock, 2 p.m. on Wrights Road and all through Woodbrook and so on.
00:18:35 Highly populated areas at that time where you could barely maneuver.
00:18:40 Where else can you go?
00:18:41 So, security at that time is not a main concern.
00:18:45 A highly populated area like that where there are hundreds of vehicles on the road.
00:18:50 Why we can advise?
00:18:51 And nobody is telling you all, "Yo, big man, you're not making sense."
00:18:54 Or, "Big woman, you're not making sense."
00:18:56 Why we can advise the VIP as to the options available?
00:19:01 I cannot instruct the VIP.
00:19:03 You feel me?
00:19:04 You see, Olio, as you would say, you would have said years ago, "Go."
00:19:08 There's a lot of fakery in the bakery in this place.
00:19:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:11 So, go ahead.
00:19:12 I don't want to make you more uncomfortable.
00:19:13 I won't be.
00:19:14 And you are in Corporal Alley.
00:19:15 So, go ahead.
00:19:16 Those are just my views.
00:19:17 No, but we wouldn't be misunderstanding.
00:19:19 But understand from where we sit, we will see things differently.
00:19:23 When I spoke to you about what happened with the judge, it is quite obvious.
00:19:27 We saw.
00:19:28 We saw.
00:19:29 We saw.
00:19:30 How can these things be prevented?
00:19:31 Malone, are we to wait until it actually happens then to say, "You know, we should have?"
00:19:36 Alexander.
00:19:37 Are we to do that?
00:19:38 I am at a stage now where I am looking for greater leadership.
00:19:43 Yes.
00:19:44 I want to let know.
00:19:45 Because at this time, I am leading myself.
00:19:48 And I have done very well leading myself.
00:19:51 But I want leadership.
00:19:53 Yeah.
00:19:54 Malone, but leadership sometimes comes with consequences.
00:19:56 There are some people who say, "I don't like Malone at all."
00:19:59 Well, they could say that.
00:20:00 If I get a chance, I bite him.
00:20:01 Yeah.
00:20:02 Well, you may have to do a little more because when you bite, you may not be able to leave.
00:20:09 All right.
00:20:10 We have another video for you.
00:20:12 We have two minutes to play with, right?
00:20:14 So, we have a video with audio of gunshots.
00:20:17 [Gunshot]
00:20:21 That's it.
00:20:22 Pursuers are saying that this is indeed -- they are claiming that it could be an area in the
00:20:32 Mover District.
00:20:33 That's what they are claiming.
00:20:34 But again, members of the public, if you live in these communities and you are hearing that,
00:20:39 we suggest that you make that also important call so we can be guided as to where to place
00:20:44 these patrols, yeah, and where to structure our level of operations.
00:20:49 That's all we ask at the time.
00:20:51 All right, gentlemen.
00:20:52 Let's remind persons of our numbers, yeah?
00:20:55 I promise to have behavior after this.
00:20:57 You saw some school children being robbed?
00:20:58 You saw it?
00:20:59 School children being robbed?
00:21:00 Yeah.
00:21:01 Let's give persons the numbers 63, 17, 11.
00:21:03 The extensions are 1992, 1993, 1996, and 1997.
00:21:08 We are going to a very short break, you know.
00:21:09 We're coming back.
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00:22:17 What you can see from this image is a man lying in a pool of blood in his living room.
00:22:22 He was shot dead a short while ago as two bandits tried to rob him and his family.
00:22:28 What you can't hear is his wife crying inconsolably.
00:22:32 What you don't know is that his 4-year-old daughter is standing looking at her father,
00:22:38 confused, begging him to wake up.
00:22:40 Can you imagine what this wife and child are going through and what they will have to go through?
00:22:45 They try to process what has happened.
00:22:48 How can we begin to help?
00:22:50 We can start right here at the Victim and Witness Support Unit.
00:22:53 From investigation to counseling, to helping families find justice, to helping families find peace.
00:23:01 This unit gives victims and witnesses hope to cope.
00:23:06 We are the Victim and Witness Support Unit, bridging the service gap between the victims, witnesses, and the police.
00:23:14 [Music]
00:23:20 [Music]
00:23:26 Give me 30 seconds.
00:23:28 And you see, sometimes I behave the way that I behave.
00:23:32 It is because I have lost patience.
00:23:35 And you see, sometimes persons in authority in Trinidad and Tobago,
00:23:41 they give the assurance that everything is above board.
00:23:46 And sometimes when things happen and there is an investigation,
00:23:52 then you realize how the system has totally broken down.
00:23:58 Right?
00:23:59 You see what has happened with this commission of inquiry into the death of the divers?
00:24:04 You saw and heard the information coming out there.
00:24:08 You remember the 1990 coup?
00:24:11 You remember how the system totally broke down there?
00:24:15 That's another commission of inquiry where we heard how the system that people told us that was working well, it failed.
00:24:23 And there are many instances in Trinidad and Tobago where the systems are failing and people are not being truthful.
00:24:31 Right?
00:24:32 And instead of them trying to develop the system and fix the system, they are coming and telling you,
00:24:38 "Well, no, no, no. We are this and we are that and we are first world standard and all of these foolishness."
00:24:43 Go ahead, sir.
00:24:44 Corporal Ali, let us ask Corporal Ali if the system is working.
00:24:48 Mary, no affiliation with anybody on the outside.
00:24:52 Mary had a relationship with John.
00:24:56 No particular John.
00:25:00 Things went off the easy and they would have separated for a while.
00:25:06 They have two children.
00:25:08 John seems to be an aggressive fellow who always making tricks.
00:25:14 And after a while, the lady went and get a protection order.
00:25:22 But John is finding his way ever so often at the lady's home, which was contrary to what the court would have ordered in terms of his behavior.
00:25:36 But yet he continued to do it time and time and time again.
00:25:40 And whenever Mary goes to the station or calls the police, she is told, "Well, he's still there? Are you coming?"
00:25:51 She is saying that sometimes they never come.
00:25:55 Or, when they arrive, he's already gone.
00:25:58 Is that protection order sufficient?
00:26:03 Is that protection order enough to really protect our citizens from other persons?
00:26:10 See, Nassu, before I address you with that fact pattern that you have given me,
00:26:19 I listened to my learned friend who represents a public interest and also has the freedom of press.
00:26:29 And it's important to identify the things that have been expressed and I wish to respond to some of the things.
00:26:41 So just permit me to respond to some of the things that he has indicated.
00:26:44 And especially so where there has been some discussions in the public domain with reference to utilization of the Anti-Terrorism Act.
00:26:58 And what you have shown on the video, just to use it as a format of discussion this afternoon, I don't know the legitimacy of it.
00:27:07 I'm not going to look at it in the context where there is any factual account here, but just as a discussion purpose.
00:27:14 When you are taking public office, there is always an inherent risk.
00:27:20 And especially so where, let's put it in the context of Trinidad and Tobago, that where it's a mixed society.
00:27:29 Different culture, different tradition, different thinking, and so forth.
00:27:33 So that is the first thing I want to identify.
00:27:35 Secondly, Marlon, you made mention in terms of when you are looking to hold or take office,
00:27:45 a person should always be cognizant of their character, repetition, and most importantly, their delivery to members of the public.
00:27:56 So while you may be entrusted with exclusive power and authority, and I put this in the TTPS as well,
00:28:03 because I heard a discussion between you and Marlon yesterday in terms of where we have authority.
00:28:08 You see that level of professionalism, that level of respect, that level of dignity, that level of integrity, and that level of excellence,
00:28:19 they are very important values for persons who are enjoying, and here's the word I'm using, enjoying public office.
00:28:27 So I could not have allowed Marlon's concern to pass by without identifying the importance that persons,
00:28:34 we are not only speaking from a political context because I was a prime minister, allegedly on a video,
00:28:39 but all public officials, or any person who is in a position of authority, must recognize those values that I just identified
00:28:48 in terms of when they're interacting and when they are treating the people.
00:28:51 So if we start there, you may have what? An early, you may have set the stage to probably avoid something like what may have occurred.
00:29:00 I don't know the facts there, but if you investigate that a little more, you may find that there may be some disgruntled personal group.
00:29:07 Could it have been addressed differently? Maybe it wasn't addressed so that someone felt what?
00:29:13 That I've reached a limit and decided now they're going to challenge the status quo.
00:29:17 And I don't want to go back into a sore point in the history of this country, but we would have seen something happen many years ago.
00:29:24 So I just want to say to persons that we need to be, and persons who are in authority, must understand that we are,
00:29:30 we are, the authority has been vested in us by the said people, and we must respect and understand what is our role and function.
00:29:38 Last but not least in terms of the video, I want to take a positive out of it.
00:29:42 You notice when the person was disarmed, if we go back to the video, if we have time, you will see where the officers didn't grab hold of the firearm.
00:29:52 They secured it and left it on the ground. Preservation of evidence.
00:29:58 If you look, you will see that when they disarmed him, the firearm fell to the ground, and they just, the video ended where they were just looking to secure,
00:30:05 without interacting with the firearm, looking at the preservation of evidence. See that?
00:30:11 If you compare that to other places or other videos that we have seen, people will be excited to grab hold of the firearm,
00:30:17 and then you start to interact with the firearm. So I want to, for the purposes of this afternoon, in terms of the law of evidence,
00:30:23 that we are preserving evidence in terms of integrity and integrity being applied in this particular context.
00:30:28 Let me move over to the status quo that you have given me now.
00:30:32 Let me say at the outset, in my reading over the week, it seems that Jamaica is moving fast ahead with reference to the issues surrounding even domestic violence.
00:30:44 I read in the newspaper where they are taking steps to strengthen their legislation.
00:30:50 Senior Superintendent Marlon, I heard Marlon basically went at length with the potency of a protection order in Trinidad and Tobago, and probably rightly so.
00:31:00 When I glimpsed the legislation, we are seeing a prevalence of domestic matters.
00:31:07 Senior Superintendent Marlon, it really disturbs me to indicate that we have treated protection order, which is supposed to be a method of protection,
00:31:17 on a tier system, that on a first breach, Marlon, you will have probably three months or probably a fine.
00:31:27 Then you go to a second tier, probably a 24 months and probably an additional fine.
00:31:33 And then you go to another tier where you may not have maybe a five-year making it an arrestable offense.
00:31:39 I'm sorry, arrestable offense, sorry, yes, correct, in terms of the five-year penalty.
00:31:44 Now, the point I want to make, Marlon, if a protection order, how much time does it take if someone is really aggrieved to commit an act of murder?
00:31:53 No.
00:31:54 One incident.
00:31:56 So if we recognize that, would we not be contemplating that a breach of a protection order should be so severe in law that the first breach can land you for a lengthy sentence?
00:32:11 I'm just agitating your level of thought this afternoon.
00:32:15 So while I am not dismissing the value of a protection order, we can probably say that look how we are babysitting the enforcement of the protection order.
00:32:25 So to respond to you, application for the protection order, they got the protection order, but the enforcement and the consequences that flow from it, in my view, is not threatening at all for the persons who may be inclined to say, you know what, let me test the system.
00:32:41 So that is the first point I want to make.
00:32:43 The second point I want to learn in terms of protection order, and I've spoken about it at length in relation to where conditions of bail.
00:32:52 How confident are we, senior superintendent, that a protection order, for example, let's say in a particular station, district, or a division, how many persons and law enforcement persons are aware of that issue of that protection order?
00:33:07 That's number one.
00:33:08 Number two, how many persons are entrusted to police those protection order?
00:33:13 For example, let's say the protection order was you have to stay 100 feet away from the individual.
00:33:18 Who's passing?
00:33:19 To check.
00:33:20 Who's monitoring?
00:33:22 And check in both contexts.
00:33:23 I do not want an imbalance.
00:33:25 So check both who?
00:33:27 The person who is binded by the protection order and the person who is supposed to benefit with the issue of the protection order.
00:33:34 We need to be checking both parties.
00:33:36 And the third thing I want to indicate is that in protection order, or maybe consequential remedies, how many persons are pushing to monitor whether persons who are instructed or ordered by the court for counseling or any other sort of intervention, how many persons are really policing that to see whether these persons are really getting the intervention that they require?
00:33:59 Because we're looking at a rehabilitation to try and resolve the issue.
00:34:03 So I want to respond to that status quo with those three issues.
00:34:06 That there is, in fact, a need for protection order, but the vulnerable point is what the law affords.
00:34:17 But reference enforcement needs to be looked at immediately.
00:34:20 Gentlemen, we must go to a very short break.
00:34:22 We're coming back.
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00:36:19 So you have big plans for the year, eh?
00:36:22 A trip in July, birthday in November and fet after fet this carnival.
00:36:28 But you know what is stop plans?
00:36:31 A $22,500 fine.
00:36:35 You know what else could really stop your plans?
00:36:39 Five years imprisonment and suspension on your license for three years.
00:36:44 Don't drink and drive.
00:36:47 Greetings Saints!
00:36:55 We are from Pillars of Truth Evangelistic Outreach Ministries and we warmly welcome you to our television program, Turning Point.
00:37:03 We are a church in the heart of the community with a heart for the community.
00:37:07 Our host pastors, Apostle Dr. Rev. Dale DeVeans and his wife, Rev. Dawn DeVeans, warmly welcome you to join us every second and fourth Sunday, 6am, right here on TV6.
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00:37:33 I am a man of many wishes.
00:37:36 Alexander, here's what.
00:37:37 This is a very important topic, this protection order thing and I have a lot to say about it.
00:37:42 But however, we have a video for you.
00:37:45 Yeah?
00:37:46 And this happened in, well we don't know, but it happened in Trinidad.
00:37:52 Look at it everybody.
00:38:12 So the victim is still stumbling about the place, trying to keep on standing.
00:38:20 He has fallen on the ground and now he has...
00:38:23 There's an explosion tomorrow, Jackie.
00:38:25 Guns, Mr. Hopkinson, guns.
00:38:39 Let me also, at this time, while looking at this, let me also commend Senior Superintendent, Mr. Smith and his team from the Tunapuna Police Station.
00:38:49 Who only yesterday, who only yesterday would have engaged some men who came to do a robbery at a local machine.
00:39:00 Police engaged them and they crashed in the rightful place, which is really the police station.
00:39:08 The mouth of the police station.
00:39:10 The mouth of the police station.
00:39:11 They were detained, one man was injured.
00:39:13 As the case, that is excellent work.
00:39:16 And members of the public, let me assure you this.
00:39:18 That vehicle that you're watching there, that AD wagon, is bearing a false number plate.
00:39:22 That is excellent work done by officers.
00:39:27 It also indicates our intention, which is really to protect and serve.
00:39:34 And gives that trust and confidence back to law enforcement.
00:39:38 With persons who have doubts, even the menace in our society have doubts.
00:39:43 That would have changed the game.
00:39:45 But let me also say this.
00:39:51 Corporal Ali, give me your legal opinion on this.
00:39:56 In every situation we see the law talking about conviction, conviction, conviction.
00:40:03 So I can appear before you on nine times without conviction.
00:40:07 Nine occasions.
00:40:09 Does the law really benefit the victim of this crime?
00:40:16 Because here you are.
00:40:18 You are not convicted because of the system might be a little slow as the case would be.
00:40:22 But you appear before a court yesterday, the day before yesterday, the day before that, and the day before that.
00:40:28 And you continue to get bail.
00:40:30 Do you think the time has come for us to remove this conviction?
00:40:34 And look at how many times you appear on matters to make a decision?
00:40:42 That's a beautiful question.
00:40:45 And it's demonstrating that you are thinking out of the box.
00:40:49 I will answer you in the affirmative immediately.
00:40:52 I think that the time has come where we go on looking at the conviction.
00:40:59 Now we know that not to be legalistic, there's a presumption of innocence.
00:41:03 So that's hence why you're looking for conviction when someone is actually found liable in relation to a criminal act.
00:41:10 But if we are really looking at intelligent driven policing and proactive policing,
00:41:14 I would like to see things considered like, for example, reprehensible conduct and behavior,
00:41:19 which can lead us into the context of looking at independent matters.
00:41:22 So let's say, for example, let's go back to the issue of the protection order, which is topical.
00:41:26 Even if there's no breach of the protection order per se,
00:41:30 maybe there's some reprehensible conduct on the part of the individual that will suggest
00:41:35 that there's a likelihood that this man may breach the protection order.
00:41:39 So what we are doing really is basically looking at this thing in its entirety.
00:41:44 And if we have to make subtle amendments to be able to accommodate reprehensible conduct,
00:41:50 as opposed to convictions, then I think the law should go in that direction to send a very clear message
00:41:56 that we are serious about protecting victims or potential victims of domestic violence.
00:42:00 Isn't that the same concept Marlon has been talking about with respect to the certificate of character?
00:42:06 That certificate of character... Oh boy, oh boy, Alexander. Careful, careful.
00:42:10 That certificate of character seems to be one of the things that keeps dangling over the heads of law enforcement
00:42:19 because I am a known interrupter in the criminal world.
00:42:25 Right.
00:42:26 Never convicted. You can't point that at me because the act's character, certificate of character,
00:42:35 and then they're saying that there's no convictions on my part. Is that held against me?
00:42:46 I think that's an area that needs to be looked at as well very carefully.
00:42:50 I would not pronounce on a particular position in relation to it, but I think it's an area that we need to look at,
00:42:54 especially where I have factored into the discussion something called reprehensible conduct and behavior.
00:43:00 So even if we are seeing that maybe someone's record may not have a conviction per se,
00:43:05 maybe there is sufficient record in law enforcement and we must be able to protect the integrity of those records as well.
00:43:12 So if you are seeing reprehensible conduct, it may not have led to a charge.
00:43:16 It may not have led to a conviction, but it is recorded.
00:43:20 And I think that maybe our thought process should start considering reprehensible conduct in relation to when we are giving notice
00:43:27 so that persons will have what they call full and frank disclosure to make an informed decision.
00:43:32 That's just my respectful view, but it's an area that we need to look at in depth.
00:43:36 So Marlon, I'm concerned, I'd like to use him here.
00:43:39 Now let me just say one more thing. The attorneys who may be practicing in a civil context may be pondering,
00:43:45 and I'm feeding them this, that if we are looking at reprehensible conduct, even from a context of, let's say,
00:43:50 they are thinking slander and defamation, that the police is now issuing to a third party something that may not be so,
00:43:58 not be in the best interest of the individual. And hence why I'm saying that if we are going on reprehensible conduct,
00:44:03 there's a responsibility and a duty to ensure that there's integrity in that reporting as well.
00:44:10 But I think that we, as it stands, you will want the protection of the law.
00:44:14 So just in case that you are now having in your periphery persons who may want to challenge your status quo at a defamation action,
00:44:21 you want to be able to match it so that when there's law that's saying that you can do it,
00:44:25 and probably under what circumstances, you have the necessary protection.
00:44:28 So let's go into the area of domestic violence and sexual offenses. Two very sensitive areas.
00:44:34 We can argue for those kinds of crimes. We are not only looking at conviction, but we're looking at what?
00:44:40 Reprehensible conduct, because those are two very vulnerable areas, just by way of discussion.
00:44:45 We have to go to our break?
00:44:49 We have one minute? All right, let me just put this on the table before we go.
00:44:54 Has this taken into consideration people who are mentally ill?
00:45:01 And I'm not talking about, let's say, people who are fully mentally ill,
00:45:08 but people who are having bouts of, let's say, a breakdown.
00:45:14 So sometimes you can see them behaving badly and cursing and getting on.
00:45:20 The police are not arresting them or charging them because they're thinking,
00:45:24 "All right, this person is mentally ill. We're just trying to calm him down."
00:45:28 But if that person comes to the police station and says to the police,
00:45:32 "Look, I want a certificate of good character." What are you going to say?
00:45:38 Good question. But let's answer it after the break.
00:45:41 Yeah, we're coming back, everybody.
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00:48:31 Gentlemen, our producer has kindly asked that we look at the video of the shooting last night in Arima.
00:48:39 This shooting occurred last night in the Arima just off the O'Meara Road where a man was shot.
00:48:47 In this vehicle there was a young child who managed to escape the gunman.
00:48:56 This man we understand is a Como Estas, a Spanish national as we understand.
00:49:09 We are still doing investigation as to on earth exactly the motive.
00:49:16 For anybody's information, you can feel free to call the nearest police station, 555-800-TIPS or call 999.
00:49:25 Or seek the number of the Homicide Bureau of Investigation, Region 2, with respect to this homicide.
00:49:35 Again, anybody's information, you can call the nearest police station.
00:49:39 Or if you want to remain anonymous, 555-800-TIPS or call the 999 police emergency line.
00:49:47 Or seek the number of the Homicide Bureau of Investigation, Region 2.
00:49:53 And give us any information that you may have with respect to that murder.
00:50:00 Go ahead now. Continue your point.
00:50:02 And this topic seems to be one that I know should engage the legal minds because it's questions police officers have to answer on a regular basis.
00:50:14 Even on this program, Posting Service Alexander, Protection Order, I am working.
00:50:18 The man could have taken a gun and who chopped who.
00:50:21 And what we could say now, sometimes to be honest with ourselves, we might stand here and support the law as it is.
00:50:31 But if we really want to be honest with ourselves, we should be able to see the loopholes and go towards it with the intentions of fixing it.
00:50:40 Let me just make a point Alexander.
00:50:43 A protection order is only effective against an individual who has fear for the law.
00:50:57 Who is willing to comply with the instructions of the law.
00:51:01 Has fear for the police, has fear for the law, has fear for the community, has fear for what people think of him or her.
00:51:08 A protection order will not work well if that person is fearless and is prepared to die for whatever cause he thinks he wants to die for.
00:51:20 And that's why we have seen, I don't have the data, but I can tell you that there have been instances over the years where this protection order, where in the past I have described it as just a piece of garbage and trash.
00:51:36 Because when the victim takes out this protection order against an individual, sometimes the perpetrator is calm all of the time.
00:51:47 But the time he gets this protection order, he gets angry and he feels that he has to act because he feels disrespected by it.
00:51:57 The only way I think the protection order can work is that there have to be checks and balances in place to protect the victim and also the perpetrator.
00:52:12 So if it is that an individual feels that they can make a false claim against an individual, well then that individual, the victim or the person who is playing victim, must face the full brunt of the law.
00:52:29 And for the perpetrator, when this protection order is taken out against you, there must be swift and strict action against that perpetrator and there must be a great level of protection for that victim too.
00:52:44 So we are balancing it off.
00:52:46 And I love the word you use in Malan in terms of balance. And I am happy that again you enforce the point of protection order must always be complemented with some attention to the perpetrator or the alleged perpetrator.
00:53:02 And the reason for that, that perspective that you share with us in terms of when someone wants to do something, Malan, the perpetrator must never feel that he is left out or she is left out of the equation.
00:53:15 Because there may be a situation where an early intervention can start to now unravel.
00:53:24 And let me just be as simple as possible.
00:53:27 Here is the protection order is issued. Could you imagine that the counsellor or the social worker is telling the perpetrator, he or she had to take this step to protect themselves and the children.
00:53:39 They didn't intend to go that step. But what you have done is you have caused them, you have scared them.
00:53:45 And perhaps if you didn't conduct yourself in the way that you did, this may not have been an eventuality.
00:53:51 So right there you are starting to what? Not have him look at the protection order like if the persons are against them per se, but understand where your actions is causing what? A response.
00:54:02 And this is where the counsellor and the social worker, those complements are just as important to be able to have the potency of the protection order.
00:54:12 So it cannot be something that you're looking at in an isolated way, Marlon. And I want to agree with you that it has to be a balanced approach in terms of dealing with perpetrator and the victim in these circumstances.
00:54:23 You know, sometimes we like to use the word reasonable. So the protection order is really for a reasonable man.
00:54:30 Yeah, exactly. A reasonable woman. Yeah, that's right.
00:54:33 If someone is irrational and unreasonable, then that cannot work.
00:54:37 But Marlon, let me respond to that. Even if we want to go on the basis that, okay, we're speaking about a reasonable man or reasonable woman as a case because it can be either gender.
00:54:45 In fact, the matter is that again, the intervention will be able to assist you, the counsellor, and there's a duty on the counsellor and the social worker.
00:54:54 If you are engaging someone for 60 contact hours, Marlon, who has basically got in a court order to engage the social worker, there's a responsibility on the social worker and the counsellor to report accurately.
00:55:06 So if you see that, hey, you see this individual, you see that reasonability you're talking about, there's no chance of coming back.
00:55:13 That person already made up their mind that they're going to. So I'm just saying that even in the reporting, you must be carefully assessing the person to know whether you have a reasonable person who will appreciate and understand that they need to make an about turn.
00:55:27 Or whether this person's already made up their mind so that you will need to look at what? Maybe for the intervention, would it be what?
00:55:33 This person may have to migrate. I'm just saying. Right.
00:55:37 Worst case scenario, would it be that this person at all material times will have to be in the company of someone? Those sort of things.
00:55:43 Let me advocate for the careless minded and for those who sometimes think differently.
00:55:51 Does the protection order gives the person who it is made out against an opportunity to monitor the victim?
00:56:02 Why I say that? If I have to stay a hundred meters away from you, I probably want to know if you're there when I'm coming there.
00:56:14 If I am, let's say I have to come to TV six and I have some issues with Jackie, I have a protection order against Jackie.
00:56:21 I will have to know whether Jackie is here because then that would put me in close proximity to Jackie, which violates the order.
00:56:29 Are we using that to? Are we giving those persons ammunition to monitor the victim?
00:56:36 Well, I wouldn't want to use it as monitoring the victim if the condition is very clear that you that you mandated to stay a hundred feet away from the individual.
00:56:46 It is very clear. How can we know for sure that the person is not there?
00:56:50 No, but the question is, if you go to the area and the person is there, you have a responsibility.
00:56:55 Your condition and your is very clear. So it's not about wondering if someone is there.
00:56:59 So it doesn't curtail your freedom of movement or you're doing your business. But if you find yourself doing business, you go to the grocery, the individual is there.
00:57:07 Then you should be if you are if you are a reasonable person, what you'll be doing for your order, say, stay a hundred feet away from the individual.
00:57:16 You do the honorable thing. So. So, no, this is something that we have to do something that needs to be worked.
00:57:24 And hence why the counselor social worker intervention has to complement or must complement when a protection or is it so you'd be at all material time feeling the pulse of the perpetrator.
00:57:35 So I went to the Red House to get married and same time Jackie walks in the Red House to do some business.
00:57:42 Right. So let's look at something. What do you think a condition will impose a prohibition from going to the Red House?
00:57:50 So the conditions are the court also aware as to if it's a Red House, you have got security, you have certain arrangements.
00:57:57 So you may not prohibit yourself in any Red House. So but you may be looking at what the victim's home, the victim's workplace.
00:58:05 Those are things that may be so different. So based on the order in order to propose some understanding of it.
00:58:11 And order should be explained properly when it is you. And that was my next question. But we'll go to the. Please. Thank you.
00:58:23 Yo, it's wrong. And this year we want to have a safe carnival just like every other carnival.
00:58:29 So this year we're talking a smart carnival. We're talking safety measures against real threats.
00:58:35 We're going to play smart and move smart because it's all about rum, gal and money.
00:58:42 Not that no call way. No time for falling. We jamming all day.
00:58:49 Jamming on the roadway. If you see me in a Benz or a Bima.
00:58:56 Give us a call.
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01:01:27 Welcome back, everybody.
01:01:29 Some very sick.
01:01:30 Mr.
01:01:30 As I said before, I'm hoping that those with legal minds are listening.
01:01:35 You might hear us going on a particular direction.
01:01:38 It's not that we are against what law enforcement is doing.
01:01:40 We are trying to open up the grounds.
01:01:42 So these are the questions that many a time do with the law enforcement officers.
01:01:48 Why is conducting the duty?
01:01:50 Let's take a call.
01:01:51 Good evening, Carla.
01:01:53 Good evening.
01:01:55 Good evening to my three of the birds.
01:01:58 Good afternoon, sir.
01:01:59 I'm doing very, very good.
01:02:02 I want to do it up here.
01:02:04 In 2022, an order was given to respect the new arrangement for renewal of FUL.
01:02:18 It took a few months to start it.
01:02:23 And then we went into 2023, during the course of January, with the issue of two receipts.
01:02:31 For whatever reason, somebody published something in December about some new arrangement.
01:02:43 The issue was raised on this same program with more than one person.
01:02:49 And then we were told that we would get a release from the commissioner for the person in charge of the FUL section,
01:02:58 because they were not promised to bring that person on.
01:03:01 I'm asking two simple reasons.
01:03:04 If it is that the commissioner did relentlessly sell that circular, all you have to say is the circular is out,
01:03:12 but we are waiting to have things in place.
01:03:16 Last week Friday, when somebody called on the same issue,
01:03:21 my smallest brother there made a good excuse with respect to pepper spray.
01:03:29 "Mr. Alexander, I would like to see somebody attack you, and you brought a pepper spray."
01:03:35 We ran into the same pepper spray.
01:03:37 And he made a very much pepper spray, and I think that is the advice I should be giving to the commissioner.
01:03:43 All who have FUL should automatically be allowed to purchase pepper spray,
01:03:50 because you have everything already on offer.
01:03:53 There is nothing more you need.
01:03:55 I would let you know if you have it.
01:03:57 Ah, so you cannot call us if you have it?
01:04:00 What you're saying, Mr. Okenstein, and I read you between the lines,
01:04:04 you know, let us just deal with the pepper spray.
01:04:06 If you have a firearm, obtaining a pepper spray should not be an issue, because you have the ultimate weapon.
01:04:14 Maybe they should give you the option one time?
01:04:17 Yeah, maybe they should give you the option.
01:04:19 See what the busbred do?
01:04:21 What's your opinion on this?
01:04:23 Before you answer, what I would like to tell members of the public,
01:04:27 and I hope Ms. Archie is looking at this program,
01:04:30 we would like to have the ASP from the firearm section present on the program,
01:04:39 so he could go through the pieces in terms of how we intend to treat the FUL,
01:04:45 the new kind of applications, and what you are required to get from them directly.
01:04:51 We would prefer that, because I think it is important now more than ever.
01:04:55 Too much of questions are being asked,
01:04:57 and persons want to know why, why, why, and why is this and why that,
01:05:00 and we cannot answer those questions.
01:05:03 I prefer that the questions be answered by the firearm section of the Toronto Bailiwpolice Service.
01:05:12 All right, gentlemen, we must go to a very short break. We're coming back, everybody.
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01:08:10 Some of our leaders act like all the inform one and all.
01:08:12 Let's take a call. Good evening, caller.
01:08:14 Oh, God.
01:08:16 Caller, good evening.
01:08:17 Good evening.
01:08:18 Good evening to the panel.
01:08:20 Good evening, ma'am.
01:08:21 Good evening.
01:08:22 Officer Ali, see this protection order story.
01:08:27 It seems to be very debatable because so many things happen.
01:08:31 So somebody gets a protection order, living in the same house and have to stay there,
01:08:37 or let's say it's not in the same house but in the same environment because they have to get how many feet to tell where.
01:08:45 Can a protection order be put in that place where the person has to stay or plot?
01:08:50 Because at one time I saw something that happened.
01:08:53 Somebody went to a place to have food and this person came in and saw the person there and was wondering,
01:09:00 "Can I stay here or do I have to leave?" because, you know, that's the first one.
01:09:05 The second point is, I don't know if you all remember, you see this thing with the people who are in charge,
01:09:12 prime ministers and judges or whatever, and people just coming up to them.
01:09:16 I remember once, I think it was in India or something, somebody came up to somebody with a floral arrangement
01:09:21 and had something in it to show the person a floral arrangement.
01:09:25 And you know, we in Trinidad, we like to be copycat, so we don't know what we'll be saying.
01:09:30 So while you want them to be free, when we're up under them, something has to be done about it.
01:09:36 My last point, the third point is, did we learn anything from the attempted coup?
01:09:42 Because whatever had taken place and whatever had been said, have we learned anything from that?
01:09:48 I'm wondering, and I'm so happy that the child, you know, nothing was wrong with the child, but it's sad, sad, sad.
01:09:54 Thank you very much. All of you be safe.
01:09:58 Thank you.
01:09:59 Let me respond immediately, Senior Superintendent. To both callers, let me acknowledge both callers.
01:10:04 Let me just respond to the first caller, Senior Superintendent Marlon, please.
01:10:06 Yes, yes.
01:10:07 Senior Superintendent, I think you responded appropriately.
01:10:10 Yeah.
01:10:11 That the best person or persons or group of persons to respond to, let's go to the fountain.
01:10:17 So the Firearm section, who will have more information, including information as to what may have been the thinking.
01:10:23 I'm happy that you went there in terms, and I hope that should be done quickly because callers are becoming agitated, and I think we need to have some clarity on that matter.
01:10:30 So let me just acknowledge the first caller.
01:10:32 And the second caller, I just want to look at the issue in terms of the protection order.
01:10:35 Just to, and let me use Marlon's word, just to balance it a little bit.
01:10:39 So let's say, for example, you talk about the Eaton Place.
01:10:42 When the protection order has been issued, what you may have in contemplation is, okay, the judicial officer is saying that you are to stay 100 meters away from the victim.
01:10:51 However, if you should go to a location, and you're addressing both parties now, both the perpetrator and the victim.
01:11:02 If one would either go to a location and see the other, you should make it or place an obligation on the individual to say, listen, leave the establishment.
01:11:11 So it's not, because you may go to a location, and who's coming to the location, Sinesu?
01:11:15 Who's going to come to the location?
01:11:16 The aggressor or the perpetrator is already there.
01:11:19 He's already what, patronizing whatever food place.
01:11:22 So if the victim comes, what the victim should do?
01:11:24 Should be ordered to leave.
01:11:26 So not to say that you are favoring one over the other.
01:11:28 So the protection order has to be very calculated so that there is what?
01:11:32 There's equal treatment while at the same time you're trying to protect and avoid any breach of the peace.
01:11:37 So I just want to respond to that.
01:11:39 She spoke about the 1990 coup.
01:11:42 I just want to respond that from my information, there was a commission of inquiry.
01:11:46 Yes.
01:11:47 And perhaps, probably we should probably look and see if there's a record, read and see what may be, probably some of the things that may have been identified.
01:11:54 And see how the best that can put us in a better position.
01:11:58 So that's my initial response to her.
01:12:01 100 feet adequate.
01:12:06 100 feet adequate for the protection of an individual with distances concerned.
01:12:14 All right. Hold on to that thought for a little while.
01:12:16 Let's take a caller. Good evening, caller.
01:12:19 Good afternoon, my friend.
01:12:21 Yes.
01:12:22 I'm Superintendent Dan.
01:12:23 Superintendent Dan, I've been around a long time hearing about these programs and them.
01:12:28 You know, protective in that sense.
01:12:32 The record that I have, that people who are getting restraining order if I am 100 meters away.
01:12:40 This thing is not successful at all.
01:12:43 Government has to spend a lot of money on that to secure proper homes.
01:12:48 Because Canada is a small place.
01:12:50 You ever go to Lavontee, Albuquerque, Lavontee, when you come along, you come along with somebody stepping up.
01:12:55 These houses are very, very close.
01:12:57 And it is in the same proximity.
01:13:00 Well, then, restraining order, right in Lavontee, South-West Lavontee, within the area.
01:13:05 How are you doing a restraining order there?
01:13:07 And this person, sometimes they've been close by.
01:13:10 It may not be husband and wife who are listening for the restraining order.
01:13:15 It might be somebody in a close proximity that's interfering with someone.
01:13:19 I want you to do it to an arm.
01:13:21 Corporal, I want you to do the other thing.
01:13:23 You see this Trinidad?
01:13:24 There are some things here unfinished.
01:13:26 And I don't believe it's finished now, you know.
01:13:29 Maybe in the next 50 years.
01:13:31 Because as I always say, I'll never forget, we've got to change a lot of rules in Trinidad.
01:13:37 Got to change a lot of rules.
01:13:39 We're still in this colonial time with the old-time laws.
01:13:43 It's raising AI and everything.
01:13:47 Now things are swift.
01:13:48 The police want more equipment, better things, tactical things.
01:13:52 And to interrogate in a much wiser way and everything.
01:13:57 So, I really, again, what you all say every day, I am supporting it, too.
01:14:02 We're trying, but we're moving fast.
01:14:05 But we ain't going nowhere.
01:14:07 Thank you.
01:14:08 All right, the 100 feet question.
01:14:10 Yeah, the 100 feet question, because I am in possession of a firearm.
01:14:17 100 feet, is it enough for the protection of a victim in this matter?
01:14:22 Well, let me begin by this, Senior Superintendent.
01:14:25 I don't know if it would be safe to say this.
01:14:27 But I've never seen any human being placed in a position that they can, their thought process can consider everything.
01:14:42 Let me start there.
01:14:44 And what we are speaking about is an option.
01:14:46 Protection order is an option.
01:14:47 There may be other remedies.
01:14:49 We are speaking protection order.
01:14:50 So, I want to begin there.
01:14:51 So, of course, not everything that you can foresee.
01:14:53 But in the context of the firearm, if the facts are suggesting that this person is a holder of air fuel or have access to a firearm, what you will want in the first instance would be protection order.
01:15:06 And the protection order delocates us for disarming the individual.
01:15:09 So, that is the first instance.
01:15:10 So, you are actually going in the context where now they get access to what?
01:15:13 An illegal gun.
01:15:14 Obviously, a 100 meters with an illegal gun.
01:15:17 We'll always have an issue with that.
01:15:18 And hence why it comes back to the point where if a person who is on a protection order is consistently being visited or has been policed, what do you think might tend to happen if the person intends to say, you know what, I'm going to get possession of a firearm.
01:15:33 So, it's about psychology, much to the law, to be able to try and see how best can we prevent a crime.
01:15:41 But let me indicate that we can extend our hands to the most effective or what we believe is the most effective preventative strategies.
01:15:51 But there's always what?
01:15:54 That unguarded moment as well.
01:15:56 So, we must not fool ourselves in reference to the law is trying to give you an option, but do not reside and say, okay, that that's the option.
01:16:07 You believe that order should be given?
01:16:09 Protection order should be given to unleave persons living in a particular home still together.
01:16:17 Well, let me go quickly with the protection order and argument.
01:16:20 A protection order can also lead to persons being removed from the home.
01:16:24 It doesn't mean that you have lost title to the home because it may be what?
01:16:27 Maybe a property settlement that will follow.
01:16:29 Maybe a divorce that is ongoing.
01:16:31 For the moment.
01:16:32 So, but the fact of the matter, judicial officer has gone as far as to say, okay, remove you from this house.
01:16:37 But the caller made a good point that if those things are to take effect properly, where are you going to put that individual who is being displaced from that home?
01:16:44 So, you must ensure that there is some support system so you can exercise your hand to move someone from a house.
01:16:50 So, before we go to the break, though, after the break.
01:16:53 You don't follow rules or what?
01:16:55 No, I like the protection order.
01:16:57 Could we go, please? It will be over.
01:16:59 Let's go.
01:17:00 I like the protection order.
01:17:02 [Music]
01:17:07 Yo, no kind of stress and no more drama on the nation's roadways.
01:17:12 Yo, guys, we're fetting smart and we're driving smart this carnival.
01:17:16 We're taking safety measures against real threats.
01:17:19 So, play smart, fett smart and move smart to be safe this carnival.
01:17:24 I'm Raymond Ram Narayan from Dillian and Dan.
01:17:26 Love you, TNT. Respect.
01:17:28 [Music]
01:17:35 [Music]
01:17:51 Hey, it's you. Come, come in, come in. Long time no see, Gil.
01:17:56 Eh, this station, pump it. I'm ready.
01:18:00 Ready for churren party.
01:18:01 Tommy!
01:18:02 Jay, you can't go nowhere with these churren.
01:18:04 And you know you can't depend on Kevin, neither Stephen to see about them.
01:18:08 They're total waste.
01:18:10 So, I supposed to stay home the whole time?
01:18:12 Jada is 12. She could see about them.
01:18:16 You just leave Jada to see about Kira and Kayla?
01:18:19 I thought it's your mother or your sister.
01:18:21 Who?
01:18:22 Dan always busy. Jada can handle that.
01:18:25 She cooking and cleaning a long time.
01:18:27 And the next two, better know what time it is.
01:18:30 It's only me I know.
01:18:31 Alright, Jay. I will talk to my mother.
01:18:33 She just home these days.
01:18:34 She will make sure the churren okay.
01:18:36 Alright, alright.
01:18:37 Let me see the moves for later.
01:18:39 Before you ram a Jay, make sure the churren okay.
01:18:43 Call 996 to report all child abuse now.
01:18:46 A message from the Children's Authority of Trinidad and Tobago.
01:18:50 Witch! Give me my passport!
01:18:55 Give me my passport!
01:18:57 Give me my passport!
01:18:59 You just came back to this place?
01:19:00 Shut up!
01:19:01 I've had enough of all of you.
01:19:03 You ungrateful!
01:19:05 I've had enough of you!
01:19:06 You took us from our countries and now force pretends
01:19:08 have us working day and night like slaves
01:19:10 and expect us to be grateful?
01:19:12 You promised us $15 an hour and you pay us much less than that.
01:19:16 And still you want to take our money from us for poor salaries?
01:19:18 Just allow us to leave.
01:19:25 Please, give us our passports and allow us to leave.
01:19:29 You can for nothing say free to leave.
01:19:32 If you step one foot out of here,
01:19:37 I will see to it that immigration sends you back to whatever hell you came from.
01:19:43 If you know of or suspect human trafficking activity,
01:19:48 call the counter trafficking hotline at 800-4CTU or 800-4288.
01:19:54 Human trafficking is a crime.
01:19:57 Identify it. Report it. Stop it.
01:20:00 A message from the Counter Trafficking Unit of the Ministry of National Security.
01:20:05 [Music]
01:20:15 Let me just...
01:20:17 Where's all the stamina?
01:20:19 Let me just ask this question quickly.
01:20:22 Persons have been asking if what is the protection,
01:20:26 what are the protections that is offered to a victim of a criminal act,
01:20:30 a victim that is a victim of a criminal act,
01:20:34 as it relates to protection for them against the perpetrator,
01:20:38 now that bail has been issued left, right and center,
01:20:41 can they apply for a protection order against the person who would have committed the offense against them?
01:20:46 Well, there are several things we can look at there.
01:20:48 Even in the issuing of the application for bail,
01:20:51 you can argue and see whether a condition will be imposed with reference to bail.
01:20:56 Secondly, if that person continues to persist in a particular behavior,
01:21:02 do not rule out the harassment under the offenses against the person,
01:21:05 where you can go through that route and the protection order
01:21:08 or orders will be open to you under that harassment,
01:21:11 under the offenses against the person.
01:21:13 So, there are different remedies one can use in reference to protection
01:21:16 as a person who is a victim of a crime and the perpetrator is on bail.
01:21:20 Are we guilty of not enough communication among the peers
01:21:25 because if you have a protection order by you at your station
01:21:30 and the perpetrator is down at my end,
01:21:33 I might have no knowledge at all of that application at all.
01:21:38 So, how does that add up because I don't know.
01:21:41 Is that information being stifled by the police?
01:21:44 Well, again, it's important if you receive a protection order and something that resembles bail,
01:21:48 is it that the requirement may be that if you have to leave District X to go to District Y,
01:21:53 that you should notify the inspector of the police station,
01:21:56 that you're going to reside in another area.
01:21:59 So, this has to be a very fluid approach in terms of if we really want the full effect.
01:22:04 But in my closing statements, Senior Superintendent Marlon,
01:22:06 I know this is our last couple of minutes,
01:22:08 I just want to just conclude where I begin this afternoon.
01:22:13 That a statement that persons may be using as a defense or to justify getting involved in crime and committing crime
01:22:25 because of social and economic issues,
01:22:27 I want to call on Trinidad and Tobago and the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
01:22:30 to dismiss that statement or that defense or that justification,
01:22:35 however we may be viewing it,
01:22:37 and advocate and encourage persons to seek the proper avenue to get help.
01:22:44 So, I just want to identify that in my closing.
01:22:47 And last but not least, the issue as it relates to crime prevention,
01:22:56 I want to identify that the best crime prevention is effective law enforcement,
01:23:02 detection, successful prosecution, and conviction.
01:23:06 There is no greater deterrent than persons seeing that the law is in operation.
01:23:11 I want to thank you, Senior Superintendent Marlon, and the callers this afternoon again.
01:23:16 Thank you very much for allowing me to share this platform with you.
01:23:20 Alexander, you're loyal, you know, but you're inconsistent.
01:23:24 All of a sudden, you're embracing criminologists.
01:23:27 I remember at a time...
01:23:28 No, no, no.
01:23:29 I remember at a time when you felt criminologists had no place in this fight against crime.
01:23:34 What I'm saying is this.
01:23:36 I want their place to be working alongside law enforcement and not separate,
01:23:41 or people that say separated apart,
01:23:43 because they're supposed to understand the reasons for crime,
01:23:48 but sometimes, apparently, they do not.
01:23:50 The TV6 News comes up at 7. I'll see you at 6 o'clock in the morning.
01:23:54 Bye-bye, everybody.
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