00:00ESPN's yearly survey that they do, where they scan and kind of survey a bunch of NFL coaches,
00:08executives, and whatnot about all the quarterbacks, basically all the players in the league,
00:13and come up with top 10 lists based off that.
00:16Yesterday, the running backs list came out.
00:18Quinshawn Judkins was not in the top 10 of their survey, but he was given an honorable mention.
00:25And the perspective was, they think he's going to have a monster 2026 year.
00:30And then Denzel Ward today in the cornerback edition was seventh.
00:35Tyson Campbell got honorable mention as well for cornerbacks.
00:39And a lot of really nice things said about Denzel.
00:41We'll get into the Denzel stuff here in a minute.
00:43When it comes to Quinshawn, I think if you just have the statistical argument about Quinshawn in his rookie year,
00:51you're missing the fact that he was one of three guys who were really productive until the injuries hit.
00:58But he was really good in a really bad offense in spite of nothing going right around him.
01:04I kind of think we're sleeping on Quinshawn a little bit going into year two.
01:07I like that I feel like he's getting the Ashton-Gente treatment in all of this.
01:12And they don't just hand that out.
01:14The idea that Gente was really not nearly as bad as his numbers said.
01:18His numbers said he was bad because his offensive line was trash.
01:20And the idea that Quinshawn is getting that as well.
01:23And his yards after contact numbers are incredible.
01:26And there's some things that obviously we can point to.
01:28But yeah, you can't look at what happened last year with that offensive line
01:33and expect him to be anything short of what he was.
01:38I'm really high on what Quinshawn could be this upcoming year.
01:41Yeah, and it's interesting.
01:42So here's the thing.
01:43The ultimate test to me on whether Quinshawn will ever be a top five running back
01:50will be can you have incredible statistical success without the benefit of a great offensive line, right?
01:58Nick Chubb, early in his career, before they really got it sorted with the tackle situation,
02:04Nick Chubb was great as soon as 2018, as soon as 2019,
02:07and that offensive line didn't really get settled until 2020.
02:12So I saw that and went, okay, we can trust this guy.
02:15He's a great player.
02:17It's a lot to ask a guy who was the 33rd pick in the draft, though,
02:21which coincidentally Nick Chubb was the 35th pick,
02:23to do that rookie year when you're not getting any support.
02:27Not just a little support.
02:29No support from the quarterback position for the first 11 weeks.
02:33And you don't really have anybody else besides Harold Fannin Jr. you can count on.
02:38So he didn't, like, yesterday or last year,
02:40Quinshawn didn't just overcome a bad offensive line.
02:43He overcame nothing else around him that was working
02:47outside of a couple of games from Shador,
02:50or there's a 300-yard game late in the season.
02:53Yeah, I think it's going to be, I mean, I think it's really hard.
02:56Also, look at this list, too, though.
02:58This list, if you're, like, who's getting out of this top 10 list?
03:01When Brees Hall is number 10 overall, like, there's a lot of really good backs.
03:05Like, Josh Jacobs is also getting an honorable mention.
03:08Like, there's just a lot of really good top-end running backs in the league right now.
03:12That's actually something I thought about,
03:14because there's a lot of, like, names that have been top 10 for a long time.
03:20And it's like, all right, is Derrick Henry still top 10?
03:24Or did he just not have a huge fall-off?
03:27And maybe he's, you know, maybe he's getting by a little bit on the fact
03:32that he's still doing what he's doing at the age that he's doing.
03:34I thought he had a lot of good moments last year.
03:37I mean, there's, I don't know any other way to describe it.
03:41He had 17 runs at 20 or more yards, four more than any player.
03:46Like, Derrick Henry was still doing some things in Baltimore.
03:48I'm not saying he's washed up.
03:50I just don't know he's still definitively a top 10.
03:53I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point, I mean, he's 32 years old.
03:56At some point, he's got to start falling off these rankings, right?
03:58Like, at some point, maybe that's what this year is.
04:00At some point, he's got to start falling off just a little bit.
04:03And maybe that was the start of last year.
04:05I mean, the fumbles he had was something that we hadn't typically seen him do as well.
04:10That kind of came out of nowhere.
04:12But I'm not betting against Derrick Henry.
04:14I just see so many of these players in this list.
04:17And even, like, I mentioned Gentry earlier.
04:20Gentry's not even an honorable mention.
04:21He just kind of got an also-receiving-votes thing.
04:23I thought the league had kind of given him a little bit of the old Peter Lynn pass.
04:27Just a little bit.
04:28The Peter Lynn pass.
04:30I thought everyone just kind of assumed.
04:31Like, we can't expect anything out of you the same way they're doing with Judkins.
04:35But Judkins is actually getting more votes out of all this.
04:37Now, I think the Denzel stuff is really interesting because when we talked about, after Miles got traded,
04:42we talked about Denzel and whether Denzel would be traded.
04:46Yeah.
04:46You know, we had the conversation about, and it is my belief, that, you know,
04:50Miles got a certain level of treatment from Browns fans.
04:53Joe Thomas.
04:55Joe Batonio.
04:56Like, you look at the best players, certainly Baker, when he was here.
05:00You know, so many of the great players, and certainly Nick Chubb,
05:04so many of the great players that Browns have had have been elevated to where,
05:08if you ask somebody around the NFL, what do you think of this player versus what Cleveland thinks of him,
05:14Unanimously, that guy would be underrated outside of Cleveland and maybe a little overrated in Cleveland.
05:24With Denzel, it's been the opposite.
05:26And I think you mentioned something the last time that has really stuck in my head,
05:30and I think you're 100% right on it.
05:33The NFL says Denzel is a top 10 cornerback.
05:37Ask any wide receiver, ask a fair amount of coaches and executives,
05:41and they're going to say they have the utmost respect for Denzel Ward.
05:45And I think in Cleveland, despite him being from here, despite him being an Ohio State kid,
05:51I think the injuries obviously ding him a little bit locally,
05:54but I do think the fact that he's not a big interception guy hurts him even more.
05:58Yeah, that's it.
05:59I mean, that's a big part of it.
06:00And so it's one of those things.
06:01I was surprised he was seventh.
06:03I also was surprised by some of the commentary, if I'm being honest about it.
06:06Like, in the article, some executives believe that his play didn't drop off at all.
06:10I didn't see it that way.
06:12I saw his play drop off last year.
06:13And now, that doesn't mean that he's cooked.
06:15It doesn't mean that I think he's awful in any sort of stretch of it.
06:19I just thought he did take a step back.
06:21But yeah, he doesn't make the splashy plays.
06:22It's going to kill you.
06:23And in a lot of his rankings and a lot of this stuff,
06:25it's kind of nice, actually, that he got the benefit of the doubt.
06:28And almost, that was a, you've been at the top of this game for so many years.
06:32We're going to put you on this list and continue to put you on this list because of that.
06:36And I thought that was nice.
06:37They ranked the 32 teams starting lineups on offense and defense.
06:43Yeah.
06:43Both sides.
06:44Yeah, thank you.
06:45And the Browns were ranked 31st.
06:49Yeah, awful.
06:50Now, they did have it as Deshaun Watson as the quarterback.
06:52And I did think Deshaun was doing a lot of the heavy lifting attached to this.
06:56What, you mean like weighing them down?
06:57Yes, yes.
06:58That's good.
06:58He's been good at that for the last five years.
07:00I just, I don't know how you get to a spot where we're 31st unless you're just heavily
07:03weighting the quarterback spot.
07:04But then there's other teams that also have really bad quarterback positions as well
07:08that would be right up there with Deshaun Watson.
07:10Yeah, like Jacoby Brissett is the starting quarterback in Arizona.
07:15That's Arizona's 29th, tied with Atlanta for basically 29th, 30th.
07:21You can't tell me Jacoby Brissett is any better than the Browns quarterback situation.
07:27Maybe they try to.
07:28Maybe they try to make that case, though.
07:29But Geno Smith?
07:31Like, with respect, I would have taken Geno here.
07:33I would rather have seen Geno Smith versus Shador than Deshaun versus Shador.
07:38But do I know Geno Smith is going to be any good this year?
07:41No, he was awful last year in Vegas.
07:43But they didn't even just do the thing where they just took a lot of the worst teams and
07:46just kind of threw them in the back end of things and said, we'll have everyone sorted
07:50out.
07:50I mean, the Falcons are 29th on this.
07:52The roster that Kevin Stefanski inherited, a roster that has B. John Robinson, the best running
07:57back in the game.
07:58It's got Drake London.
07:59Their defense has a lot of interesting pieces, even if one of them is going to jail.
08:03I just, it's like, how did we get here?
08:07How did this make a, how is this your reality?
08:10And maybe, I don't know, maybe we're just counting too much of some of the players we
08:13like and some of the players we think can be good, but the Deshaun side of this is really
08:19weighing us down here.
08:21Yeah, I mean, it's funny.
08:22Most analysts, and Aaron Schatz, the guy from Football Outsiders, is one of the key cogs
08:27behind this.
08:28Most people don't think that the Browns are going to lose that much going from Miles Garrett
08:34to Jared Verst when it comes to wins and losses, right?
08:36Yeah, yeah.
08:37So, that can't be why this is.
08:39I mean, Vegas accounted for Miles Garrett's departure as basically being anywhere from
08:45half of a win to a win in total.
08:46Can I, okay, I do have a working theory on this.
08:49What's that?
08:50I think it's as simple as, I think a lot of people saw the Browns trading Miles Garrett
08:55as a form of tanking, and that given what they're doing at the quarterback spot, that
09:00that's maybe the first thought they had that the Browns are tanking, having a Deshaun
09:04versus Shador quarterback battle, and that the Browns are going to allow natural selection
09:08to take over on that, and then trading Miles meant the Browns' plan on stinking this year.
09:14The problem is, then, if they were planning on being bad this year, they wouldn't have
09:19spent all the money that they did rebuilding that offensive line.
09:23The offensive line is part of this conversation, though.
09:26So, Seth Walter pretty much takes an axe to what he thinks this offensive line can be,
09:30while acknowledging that there's just two, I think what he called it, two wide range
09:34of outcomes for this unit.
09:36And so, like, if you, I think in this instance, they're saying that they think the offensive
09:41line is going to be bad, all things considering, but, like, yeah, like, they're just not high
09:46on it.
09:47They're really not.
09:48The remade offensive line, as they described it, the range of outcomes for this unit is
09:52wide, and maybe that's part of it.
09:55216-474-0092.
09:57ESPN ranks the Browns' starting lineup on offense and defense 31st out of 32 teams in
10:04the NFL.
10:05Have we overhyped the starting lineup?
10:07Because if you think the offensive line sucks, Nick, then you're going to think probably you're
10:10going to have to step back with running back as well, because Quinshawn won't be nearly,
10:13you just won't be able to do it because you can't if you have a poor run game, and it's
10:17just a trickle-down effect.
10:18Yeah, I just, I think people are maybe missing out on how bad things really were.
10:23However, and you're going to have to hear this again, because I've said this a million
10:26times, the play-calling stunk, the game-planning didn't really work, they screwed over, they
10:32certainly screwed over Joe Flacco, who then looked like Joe Flacco when he went to Cincinnati.
10:36You got no salient quarterback play until about week 12, and even then, Chador was not consistent
10:42last year, which there are reasons why.
10:45The offensive line fell apart because of injuries.
10:48Harold Fannin Jr. was your only consistent receiver, and Quinshawn Judkins was good for
10:55about eight games before he fell apart with injuries, and then everything fell apart around
11:00him.
11:01That's everything.
11:03That's everything on offense, or why they were just an abhorrent offense.
11:07It is not that hard to be tangibly better than last year, and the idea that people looking
11:14at this team, I know it's a lot of unproven talent, yeah, that's the NFL.
11:18It is a young league.
11:20Like, there are plenty of, like, you're going to tell me the Jets have a lot of proven talent?
11:24No.
11:25No.
11:25On offense and defense, by the way, they traded away half their defense last year.
11:29Like, I just...
11:29I know, I know.
11:30I just end up, I'm telling myself, I'm like, am I too high?
11:33And I'm not even high.
11:34I have them as a seven-win team.
11:35But am I, like, what are we missing?
11:39And what is not hitting us the right way?
11:41Because Vegas doesn't think they're going to be particularly good, these ESPN rankings
11:44continue to tell us that they don't think they're going to be any good.
11:46What am I missing here?
11:48I think the Browns have the classic makings of being an ignored team, that no one really
11:53paid attention to the offseason, or no one really had any expectations for them.
11:58Everybody kind of sleptwalked through the Deshaun versus Shador thing outside of Cleveland,
12:02and I think they've just been ignored.
12:05I don't think this is a team that people think a high amount off of coming off firing Kevin
12:10Stefanski, because he's the white knight of NFL coaches, apparently.
12:13And I think, quite frankly, I think the Browns have, because they're so young, because it's
12:19a first-time head coach that people didn't maybe respect the hiring of, which I think
12:23is ridiculous, given what Todd Monk has done.
12:25I think that's part of it, too, by the way.
12:25They don't list that anywhere in this, but I think that is part of that.
12:28But, like, I think the Browns have the making of a team that people wake up in November
12:33and go, oh, I guess we slept on the Browns.
12:36And again, that doesn't mean the Browns are going to be a 10-win team.
12:38But the Browns, being a 7-, 8- or 9-win team, will shock the NFL, because the rankings are
12:46telling you they think the Browns are going to be the worst team in the NFL, or second-best
12:50to it.
12:50It just feels like there's a lot more talent here than 31st.
12:52Yeah.
12:53It feels like, I don't know what number would have made me happy.
12:56I guess I was expecting maybe somewhere like 23 or 22, 24.
13:00I'm not asking to be 15th right now.
13:02You're still in year two of really trying to put this whole thing together and then get this
13:06thing going, but 31 seems like a joke.
13:09Miami shouldn't be ahead of you.
13:10Arizona shouldn't be ahead of you.
13:12Tennessee, even with Cam Ward, shouldn't be ahead of you.
13:14Vegas shouldn't be ahead of you.
13:16New Orleans, I think, is debatable.
13:18I wouldn't put them ahead of you, even though they have offensive talent.
13:20Jets shouldn't be.
13:21I think the Giants are massively overhyped after all this.
13:25Like, guys, John Harbaugh doesn't make that big of a swing, but I digress.
13:30And Indy, I think Indy's another paper tiger.
13:33Everybody, all those teams, I think the Browns should be ahead of.
13:37Everybody else, I'm fine with.
13:39That put us at like 24, 25.
13:41So like, and then by the way, because people, when I said, I think putting the Browns at
13:4631st is hyperbole, a few Browns fans like got mad at me saying that.
13:51How would there be anger there?
13:52I don't know.
13:53It was, it's Twitter.
13:55People are just pissed about everything.
13:56Well, that's true.
13:56But it's a great place to be, you should have your own account.
13:58Do people want this team to be bad?
14:00Is that the idea?
14:01Are we already rooting at that?
14:02We haven't even played a game yet.
14:03Are we already rooting for this team to be bad?
14:05I think there are people.
14:06I don't want to say everybody is.
14:07I don't think that, I do think there are people.
14:09I think more people are where you and I are.
14:10Where it's like, I think they're going to be.
14:12Somewhat hopeful?
14:13Yeah, I think that you could be a competitive team.
14:15I think most people want them to be competitive, but I do think there's some very loud people
14:19that want them distinct so we can get the quarterback.
14:21And I understand wanting them distinct to get the quarterback.
14:23And at a certain point, we're going to have to get there.
14:25But I also want to see these year one and year two players.
14:27I want to feel like they're actually building towards something.
14:29The problem with winning three games next year, it's great.
14:32You get your quarterback.
14:33Everything's exciting about that.
14:34But the problem that hits with that is that there would have been a lot of these first
14:37and second year players that didn't get to spots that we needed them to get to.
