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SportsTranscript
00:00Deshaun Watson, I thought, looked nice.
00:02I actually think the reaction to Shador's performance was actually off what I saw
00:08because I'll be honest with you, I think if we're talking about the quarterbacks
00:11on Saturday, we should be grading them on an absolute curve
00:15because the offensive line stunk for both of them once you got to the second unit.
00:21You saw it with Deshaun.
00:22You certainly saw it with Shador, and I honestly feel bad for little fella
00:25Dylan Gabriel having to clean up that mess in the fourth quarter
00:28with how we got to the fourth offensive line.
00:31It was just like, these guys don't look playable.
00:33Well, and especially when we got to Shador and Dylan,
00:35it very much felt like what we watched them do last year in many senses.
00:39It's like, all right, Shador's got to try to put the cape on and make a play
00:41no matter what.
00:42Dylan at least was throwing the ball a little bit further downfield.
00:45That was nice.
00:45That was at least a development for Dylan, even if he threw it into the defender's hands.
00:49It was still a nice development, all things considered.
00:51Still a completion if you think about it.
00:52I think so, too.
00:53I think so, too.
00:55Deshaun did not flat out embarrass himself.
00:57I was surprised by that.
00:58The expectation I had was flat out embarrassing.
01:01Now, he still had that fumble that was weird,
01:03and I guess everyone just refused to put on him at the end of the game.
01:06Yeah, he's gotten the old Peterlin pass for the fumble.
01:08Oh, my gosh.
01:08Like, you wouldn't believe.
01:10That was a Peterlin pass.
01:12Unbelievable.
01:12And Munkin led the charge in that one in the postgame, clearly.
01:15But still, yeah, I thought he looked better than I thought he would.
01:18Was he great?
01:19No.
01:20Did he push the ball down the field?
01:21Absolutely not.
01:22But if what they were trying to get was somebody that just didn't fall flat on their face,
01:26then mission accomplished.
01:27Yeah, it was interesting.
01:28You could see that Deshaun, with his, I think it was a third quarter interview with Aditi on the sideline,
01:35Deshaun was smiling.
01:36Like, Deshaun looked, I don't want to say relieved.
01:38And Aditi highlighted that, too, by the way.
01:39He looked, that is...
01:40And Munkin highlighted that after the fact, too.
01:42Like, it's so funny with Deshaun, one of, kind of like an ancillary gripe, other than
01:47the being bad at football and the baggage that he came with and all the other stuff
01:51and the injuries, and there's a lot there.
01:54One of my primary gripes is all I had heard about Deshaun in Houston was he would light
01:59up any room he walked into, he talked to everyone, he was accessible, and he's just
02:04not been that.
02:05Now, we can understand why he hasn't been that, but that is as light as I have seen
02:10Deshaun Watson, and it was after one half of what I would say is good football in the
02:16preseason opener.
02:17So there was a part of me that was like, you know what?
02:19And even Todd Munkin, afterwards, smiling, and just, you could tell Todd Munkin was happy
02:25for him as well.
02:26Munkin went a little too far, in my opinion, in that respect.
02:29He smiled too hard?
02:30Smiling's his favorite.
02:30He went over the top with his adulation for what he saw out of Watson and how happy he
02:35was for Deshaun.
02:36How did he go over the top?
02:38What do you mean, how did he go over the top?
02:39It was everywhere.
02:40Him saying he's now 100% confident, wants him to play winning football, that's one of
02:44the strongest indicators I think we'd find.
02:47Extremely encouraged, everything that he said, and then he's smiling ear to ear.
02:50You could tell, there was a part of Munkin that didn't believe we would see that version
02:54of Deshaun, and then we saw it, and I feel like for somebody in his first year as a head
02:57coach, someone that knows if this goes absolutely sideways and he looks cooked, then he might
03:03be cooked as well, you can do something with that.
03:06I'm not saying you can win a lot of games with that, but you're not going to look like
03:08Freddie Kitchens if you just have somebody that can complete actual passes down the field.
03:12I thought that's what's funny because we're trying to base our thoughts on who should start
03:19based off what we're saying, and we're also trying to base it off what we're hearing from
03:23the Browns.
03:24And I feel like with the way Munkin spoke about it, with the way Deshaun spoke about it, I
03:30felt like they were talking about it like I was watching a different brand of football.
03:33I thought Deshaun looked good, and again, I'm grading on a curve meaning he probably
03:38even looked better than good.
03:40I don't know that's a, man, he just snatched the job good.
03:43No, I know.
03:44Because that's the messaging that I felt like we got from Todd Munkin and the Browns, and
03:48honestly, I think everybody's on the same page with that.
03:50I think the difference here is that for five months they had given Deshaun first everything
03:55out of the gate, and they propped up Deshaun in a way that we've called out at certain
03:59spots, but the idea was they themselves did not know how he would react in an actual game.
04:04They had no idea, because nobody could know with Deshaun.
04:07The same way when Deshaun first appeared in that Texans game a million years ago, coming
04:11off of all the allegations and the year off, he looked miserable.
04:15Nobody could have known that was going to happen.
04:17And so I think the idea that he just didn't basically fall down and look drunk the entire
04:21time was like, well, okay, good.
04:23There's something here.
04:24It doesn't mean he's God's gift to football, but he's at least not going to throw every ball
04:29in the dirt, and he's at least looking around, and the game's not too fast, and he can do
04:33something.
04:33Doesn't mean he's going to be Peyton Manning, but he can do something, and I think that was
04:36a sigh of relief for both Deshaun and for Munkin, because we've seen Deshaun go out in
04:40these spots and not pass that test before.
04:42But we're just in a weird spot where it's like, I would like to just talk about, I thought
04:46Deshaun looked what I hoped he would.
04:48He looked like a competent NFL quarterback, and I'm still sort of confused at the adulation from
04:54Todd Munkin on this.
04:55And it might have just been that he was happy for the player, and we might just be confusing
05:00that.
05:01But even once you start to look at how the practice reps are divvied up with the fact
05:05that Deshaun and Shador are splitting the reps on Thursday against the Bills.
05:10And then Deshaun's getting the best practice of the week on Tuesday outside of the joint.
05:13With Pats on, it's just, I'm trying to figure out how that start became something other than
05:20what I thought it was, which again was a very good start.
05:23No, no, no.
05:24Good start.
05:24It was a good start.
05:25Not a very good start.
05:26It was a good start.
05:27And I like that this is your take on it, because I felt very similar leaving that game.
05:31I was actually, I was like yelling at anybody that would pay attention.
05:33He didn't push the ball down the field at all.
05:36Like, you have to at some point reward the idea that you throw the ball more than, Dylan
05:40Gabriel and Kevin Stefanski played that offense last year.
05:42And so I don't know, was this just an offense, Nick, that was set up for Deshaun to make sure
05:46he could just do the basics and just do the easy ins and outs, not throw any of these
05:51bad interceptions we've seen in preseason in the camp so far, and just not fall flat on
05:55his face?
05:56Was that what this was?
05:57Was this a trust exercise?
05:58Almost.
05:58Is it like a trust fall?
06:00Almost.
06:00Like, hey, like Munkin goes to him, hey, listen, we both, we want the best for you.
06:04You're going to look the best if you do this and just, just hit the easy spots, just make
06:08the easy throws.
06:09We're not going to test it in any sort of way and just pass that, pass that, and then
06:13we can see what happens moving forward.
06:14And what's weird is Deshaun, and I think Zach Jackson was the first guy that I saw a tweet
06:19about it.
06:19And then I saw like a hundred tweets after it because, you know, Twitter's broken.
06:24But Deshaun really still has no pocket presence whatsoever.
06:28And I think that's the thing, like the, like the two things that go beyond just, did you
06:33complete the ball?
06:34Did you throw it to the right guy?
06:35Did you throw it to the right team?
06:37The two things that I took away from this game are one, Deshaun's pocket presence is
06:41still, it's, it's like he has no athletic charisma in the pocket.
06:46And then with Shador, I actually thought the team responded to Shador.
06:51I thought you could see a different energy when Shador was in there from the guys offensively.
06:55No question.
06:56And so I just, I thought that was really, and again, like if, if you want to say Deshaun
07:01had the better game, yeah, I'd probably agree with you, but Shador made the two biggest
07:05plays, well, technically three biggest plays of the game with the interception, but the
07:08two best throws of the game go to Shador.
07:10And once Deshaun had the fumble, I thought he was spooked a little bit.
07:14Like if we, if we played out a whole entire rest of the game, Nick, I think it goes real
07:18south for Deshaun Watson after that point, because, and you saw, you saw for the couple
07:21series he got after the fumble happened, he didn't look the same.
07:24He started throwing balls in the dirt.
07:25He started missing receivers.
07:27And I know he talked about it and I don't know why this is not getting nearly enough
07:30run, Nick.
07:31He had numbness in his arm.
07:33Openly talked about it.
07:34Why, why is no one discussing that part of this equation?
07:37Like if we're worried about his health and we're worried about the injuries that constantly
07:40pop up.
07:41And he said throughout parts of that game, he had numbness in his arm.
07:44Now he thought it was just a funny bone issue and everything was going to be fine, but
07:47he legitimately had numbness in his arm during that game.
07:49Like that's, that's not passing necessarily the, I'm the healthiest guy in the world.
07:53Now check.
07:54I think there's an element of people who think that Deshaun won the job simply because they
07:58had no expectations for him on Saturday.
08:01Well, life is about expectations, right?
08:02And when you go in and you have the lowest of low expectations, 11 of 16, where you have
08:06a delay of game, you have one of the worst fumbles you ever see and don't complete a pass
08:10beyond 10 yards.
08:11It's going to look a lot better than maybe it is in reality.
08:13And I think that's where a lot of people were.
08:14I'm with you.
08:15I don't think the job is necessarily done and over.
08:18I am also not going to ignore the idea that Munkin seemed incredibly pleased.
08:22They continue to give Deshaun number one opportunities at every turn, the splitting the joint practice,
08:28him having the actual practice that matters this week with the Browns on Tuesday.
08:31And then obviously them talking about on Saturday, the ones aren't going to play.
08:36A lot of the ones aren't going to play with Chador on the bill side and the Brown side.
08:40It does kind of feel like the Browns already made up their mind one way or another.
08:44They just needed to make sure Deshaun wouldn't fall flat on his face.
08:46And I think to kind of, I think to get like, but that game didn't change much.
08:51Yeah.
08:51If that, if that performance is why they're, you know, have a different pep in their step
08:56today, they're not going to beat the allegations that this thing was rigged.
09:01I don't think they are beating a lot of the allegations.
09:03The sad part is Deshaun hasn't gone out and grabbed it or anything.
09:06We're just stuck somewhere in between the Browns clearly giving him some sort of favoritism
09:11while also then him not going out and grabbing it, whatever that is in the middle of that.
09:16And Chador not helping his case.
09:17You can't throw that interception if you're Chador Sanders.
09:19And the excuses maybe aren't helping either, but everything attached to it, Chador isn't helping
09:24his case.
09:24And so it just kind of becomes this melting pot of, it looks like it's headed in that direction.
09:29Yeah.
09:29The interesting thing about, I didn't think the interception was the biggest deal in
09:32the world because the game was already out of reach.
09:34And I, I kind of thought it should be treated the same way that I think the fumble by Deshaun
09:40should be treated.
09:41Yeah.
09:41It's, it's the preseason who gives a rat's ass, but get that out now instead of later,
09:46because again, like I, I think we're really underrating it.
09:50Listen, the wide receivers looked really good or the pass catchers and playmakers looked really,
09:55really good.
09:55The offensive line did not.
09:57Yeah.
09:57The offensive line.
09:58At least with the run game.
09:59Yeah.
09:59Yeah.
10:00The second and the first unit when it came to the run game, you know, like that, uh,
10:03the first unit with the run game, uh, Judkins had nowhere to go and Judkins didn't do anything
10:08at all with the ball that way.
10:09But it does feel like from what Todd Munkin said in how his actions line up, it does look
10:15like this thing is going to Sean's way.
10:17And it's interesting.
10:18Like my feeling that my initial reaction isn't screw Todd Munkin.
10:24It's not.
10:25Um, but it is, you better be right.
10:28And I, I, you know, I understand that he's a head coach and coaches don't think this way.
10:33Um, there is losing, um, there is losing, not all losing is equal.
10:39And the second that Deshaun has a quintessential Deshaun Browns game.
10:45Oh boy.
10:46Do I think Todd Munkin is going to hear it and feel it.
10:48And I don't, and I no longer think like this is an organizational push by the way, that,
10:52that, that Todd is being forced to play Deshaun.
10:56Oh, you don't know.
10:57I think he was a little too gleeful after that game for a guy that was, that would be
11:01handcuffed by an organization.
11:03Our reads on that are different than I think he was gleeful.
11:05Cause it was like, Oh, I got a chance to actually look decent with this.
11:08I think Munkin has seen everything that we've all seen.
11:11I think he was prepared for Deshaun Watson to not look the greatest and he was prepared
11:14to fall flat on his face.
11:15And then he was going to have to lie to everybody in the post game.
11:18And I think the reality that he had was, Oh, okay.
11:21All right.
11:22In a game setting, he didn't look like he completely tripped over the guard.
11:26Like this, I can do something with this.
11:28I'm not going to look like an absolute failure for the rest of this season.
11:32I really did.
11:33None of this did anything to, to help the idea that this has come from anyone, but the, it
11:38really has one and the top.
11:39I just, I really think there was a gleeful note there and I just took it a different
11:44way.
11:45I, I, I really do think Todd looks at this and goes, if I can, if I can be the
11:51guy that,
11:51that rehabs Deshaun back to a certain level, I'm, I'm, I'm going to be pretty set as, and
11:58not that this won't be my only coaching job as a head coach.
12:01That game didn't do anything to rehab Deshaun though.
12:03That game was, I mean, that was about as dink and dunk as you can find though.
12:06Like, do you want to, you want to show me that you rehabbed Deshaun and throw the ball
12:09down the field?
12:09So yeah, well, I, I do think there will be a point this season that you have to get
12:13there, but I think, I think Todd Munkin has put a lot of eggs in the basket of, I got
12:19to
12:19get Deshaun to a specific level.
12:21And if I do, it's going to help it one, it's going to help us win.
12:24And I do think that's his number one concern, but I think it's also going to help how he's
12:28perceived around the NFL.
12:29I don't think it's lost on Todd Munkin that most people, when he was named the head coach
12:33of the Cleveland Browns didn't have the most positive reaction that every, whether it's
12:38CBS sports or ESPN, when all the analysts have, have ranked, you know, the head coaching
12:43hires, it was unilaterally near the bottom.
12:47I don't think he was the worst, but he was usually, you know, if there were, I think it
12:51was eight head coaches hired, he was usually seventh or eighth.
12:53So I, I just took it as a sigh of relief for him being like, Oh, I'm this season is
12:57not
12:57going to be a three win season.
12:58This, this one has a chance to maybe we win six, maybe win seven, but I, we're going to
13:02have a couple of games where if Deshaun can look like that, we'll be all right.
13:05Now that's completely ignoring the idea that you had no run game at all.
13:09You still have to delay a game penalty that Deshaun had that.
13:11I thought, I thought Munkin's head was going to explode in the sidelines.
13:14They did a great job.
13:15The broadcast did a great job of immediately going to Munkin's facial expression.
13:18And I've never seen a man as pissed off as Munkin in that moment.
13:21I legitimately thought his head was going to explode.
13:24Yeah.
13:24That's honestly the weird thing to me because so much has been made about like Shador's
13:29ability to read the defense, Shador's ability to do the work and all this kind of stuff.
13:32Love, it's weird to me that Deshaun is being given the grace of he's the front runner because
13:38he's the veteran and he's having as many operational issues as Shador is.
13:43Yeah.
13:43And then somehow that's being held against Shador, but not being held against Deshaun.
13:47I, I, again,
13:48It's one area where the Browns are kind of speaking out of both ends on this.
13:51I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's a nuance to it that I'm just failing to grasp or some
13:55sort of inside, you know, the, the six herbs and spices or whatever.
13:59I'm sure there's something I'm missing there, but man, that feels, as you put it, a little
14:03bit of talking out both sides.
14:04That goes back to that last Monday when they had the procedural problems with the final
14:09two minutes and it was Deshaun and Shador, but then it felt like, it felt like in their
14:12eyes, Shador was the only one that was making mistakes at the end of that.
14:15And it's, it's kind of the idea that they put out there, this idea that he's a veteran
14:19and he's been in the league for 10 years.
14:21And even though we see some of these mistakes, like the day delay a game, uh, we had all
14:25sorts of operational issues, the burn timeout, the trouble getting in and out of huddles.
14:28Like it happened all throughout this game, but Deshaun just kind of escapes that.
14:32Yeah.
14:32And it's interesting.
14:33Like, so obviously we're doing the, how does this impact the quarterback, uh, battle?
14:39And again, it does feel like everyone kind of just went, all right, I guess it's Deshaun's
14:43job now.
14:43Cal, she's got him at 85% now.
14:45Uh, so, you know, it's actually not going to work out that way.
14:48Check the markets.
14:48Cal, she's got him at 85%.
14:50I am.
14:51So, so my problem is not with Cal, she it's how people talk about Cal, she that's the
14:55one they, they compare it to like Vegas and it's like, no, completely not different, very
15:00different, different, but also it is just a reflection of the public's betting and the
15:04public's betting is ultimately what Vegas is.
15:06Vegas has somebody, Vegas has somebody that sets the lines initially, but then the, the
15:10public betting and the sharp bettors tilt it one way or another.
15:13The problem with Cal, she is do we have enough sharp bettors to actually make it tilt in
15:17the smart direction?
15:18That's what I always wonder about Cal, she some things we do.
15:20This one, I don't know.
15:22But I will say like the operational issues, cadence issues.
15:26The nuance take on Cal, she for anyone that cared, by the way.
15:28I actually really appreciate it.
15:29I really appreciate it.
15:30I feel smarter now.
15:32And that'll be on Baskin and Phelps tomorrow.
15:34Why, why we're smarter.
15:36It'll make it to tomorrow.
15:37Yeah.
15:37Yeah.
15:38For once.
15:39Nope.
15:39Not going to take the shot.
15:40I love those guys.
15:41Yeah.
15:41Baskin's still like, Baskin's like, oh, you're a good guy.
15:43Except for the comments last week about me saying I have a fat ass.
15:46I'm still taking heat for that.
15:48Yeah.
15:48Well, you shouldn't have said he has a fat ass.
15:49I did not say he has a fat ass.
15:51The streets are saying you commented on his gluteus, Max.
15:54I had to explain to him.
15:55I have no ass.
15:56And so by proxy, you have a bigger ass than I do.
15:58And that's why the chair is, that's your form, not mine.
16:01Yeah.
16:01I think you lost him with the nuanced explanation.
16:04I think you should have just gone with Nick is lying.
16:07I think that would have been a better play.
16:10That one is the truth.
16:11Yeah.
16:12Nick.
16:12People don't want to hear that one.
16:13Well, no, no, no.
16:14I mean, it would be a lie.
16:16You know, you, you said he puts the, the max and gluteus Maximus.
16:20I don't say that.
16:20I don't say that's exactly how you said it.
16:22I never say gluteus Maximus.
16:23That's not a term that I use.
16:25Gluteus Maximus guy.
16:25That's all right.
16:26That's a term you use.
16:27That's not a term I use.
16:27I don't think I do.
16:28Uh, however, lost in all of the, the kind of this quarterback versus that quarterback
16:34was the idea that like, I am a little bit more comfortable with the Sean starting.
16:39That doesn't mean I think he won the job, but I am more comfortable of, okay, that thing
16:43that he did, if three times a game, he can take a big shot down the field and actually
16:49connect on it.
16:50You can win a lot of games with that brand of football.
16:53Even if Shador's my preferred method of, I don't know, just being old throw guys open.
16:57The hope I would have is that Munkin is holding in some aces up his sleeve and the direction
17:02of Deshaun throwing the deep ball.
17:04Uh, and this was all just, uh, again, if he's going to try to pass the test, this was all
17:08just setting him up to pass the test.
17:09Look, look proficient out there, complete a lot of passes and, and ultimately don't
17:14throw interceptions.
17:15Like the one big thing that we've harped on with Deshaun throughout this camp has been
17:18the amount of interceptions that he's thrown.
17:20I think Munkin set him up to not throw a lot of interceptions, make it easy on his life
17:24and then be able to sell to the public why he should be the starter.
17:27Cause after you leave that game, you do think to yourself, what the same thing you just said,
17:31you think he can do it at a level.
17:33And that's not something that universally existed a week and a half ago.
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