00:00We've got a couple weeks here, what, didn't care of the two,
00:03five weeks until training camp opens up.
00:05That means people are making up reports and having a lot of fun with that,
00:09but not our next guest because she's one of the three people
00:13that I said I think of as Edward R. Murrow-level sports journalist.
00:20I'm not going to say who the other two are,
00:21but they're big names in this business.
00:24And to talk to her, we head out to the Wiseheart, right?
00:26We make it right, call Kyle Wright, hotline, cleveland.com,
00:29and the Orange and Brown Talk podcast.
00:32Ashley Bastock joins us now for her weekly hit.
00:35Ashley, welcome to the show.
00:36Thanks for having me, guys. How are you?
00:38Doing all right here.
00:39I wanted to know how would you grade Taylor Swift's appearance
00:44at Tight End University singing a love story for the NFL tight ends?
00:50You know, I'm going to give it a solid A-minus.
00:55And here is the only reason I'm giving it a minus,
00:57because I think last year when it was a surprise
01:00and when she was writing down chord progressions for the band
01:05and no one, including her, knew she was going to perform at Tight End U,
01:11I think it packed a real punch.
01:12This year, everyone expected it.
01:14It lost the element of a surprise.
01:16Still a cool thing that she did for Travis and for the tight ends
01:20and their friends and family at this event,
01:22but I'll give it an A-minus.
01:24Still great, without the surprise of the 2025 version of this.
01:28Should Travis be a little salty, though?
01:30He dedicated it to, or she dedicated it to someone else not named Travis Kelsey?
01:36Maybe, considering the wedding is supposedly coming up here on July 3rd,
01:41if you believe the rumors and reports that are out there.
01:45So, yeah, maybe, you know, it's the last time, theoretically,
01:48she's going to do a live performance before they're married.
01:51All right, so we've got to get to the Soresby saga.
01:54This was a big part of yesterday's show.
01:58I think you and I are on opposite ends of the Soresby stuff in general,
02:02so I'm very curious how you're going to answer this.
02:05How do you think the Soresby saga will end?
02:08I mean, the ultimate ending, I still think,
02:11is that he's going to wind up in the NFL.
02:14The biggest question is just how and when is that going to happen?
02:18Like, we know that even though the NFL says they're not holding a supplemental draft,
02:23that Brennan Soresby's attorney has told multiple outlets, including ESPN,
02:28that they plan to fight it, and they believe it violates the CBA.
02:33So I think this is far from over, but I think the question remains,
02:37is he going to get in the NFL via taking part in a supplemental draft
02:42if the league ends up tapping the reverse course?
02:45Or is he going to get in the NFL via the 2027 draft
02:48or sign as an undrafted free agent?
02:51Like, I think this is ultimately going to end with him still arriving to the league
02:57in some capacity.
02:58But I do think the NFL threw a significant wrench in those plans yesterday,
03:03and now I think teams are probably, I would assume, thinking twice.
03:09Because if the league wants to make an example like this,
03:12I've got to wonder how are they going to look at a possible suspension
03:16when he does eventually make his way onto a roster.
03:20Well, that's what I was going to ask you next, Ashley,
03:23is we've seen in the past, and obviously we know here in Cleveland
03:26with the Josh Gordon situation and whatnot,
03:29do you think the league just made life a little more difficult on themselves
03:33than it needed to be by saying no supplemental draft
03:37and instead of just holding it, letting a team win them,
03:41and then coming back and saying, hey, we're going to do what we've done
03:44in other past cases like this, and we'll do our investigation
03:48and determine if we do need to eventually hand down some discipline.
03:52But I kind of feel like the league has made this a lot harder on themselves
03:56than this whole situation needed to be.
03:58You know, I don't know if I agree with that,
04:01just because I think there's going to be baggage with this regardless.
04:05And I think if they had just let him go through the supplemental draft
04:09with no pushback and then they issue some kind of suspension,
04:14whether it's for a period of time or obviously we know about
04:17indefinite suspensions, I just think the gambling piece of this
04:21is such an issue for the NFL that I think they view it as stopping
04:28maybe more of those problems down the line or more coming out.
04:33And obviously, as they said in their letter that has since leaked yesterday,
04:38just this idea of there's not a ton of, there wasn't any,
04:43it really it sounds like, supporting evidence for why he should enter this draft.
04:46They only had a handful of weeks to investigate all of these claims
04:51and allegations against him.
04:52And these are very big claims.
04:54And look, we talked last week about, it's not about the morality of sports betting
04:59and moral policing of these guys when it comes to gambling.
05:02It really does, I think, for the league, just come down to this idea
05:06of integrity of the game.
05:07And if you don't have that, it's like, what do you have at that point?
05:10So, I mean, I'm just not surprised to see them using this as a situation
05:15where they're going to try to make an example out of him.
05:18But I do think either way, whether you're talking about,
05:21oh, we're just not having a supplemental draft,
05:23or we're going to let him do that,
05:25and we're going to look at possible suspension opportunities,
05:28I think either way, like Sorsby and his legal team,
05:31there probably would have been some pushback there, is my guess.
05:34Ashley, Todd Bunkin was interviewed by the Baltimore Sun.
05:38Some fun quotes, as Todd always gives, him saying,
05:42I do think I'm authentic sometimes.
05:43Players and others don't like the approach.
05:45I think maybe the first thing they could say is he's a little brash
05:50or an old white dude or whatever.
05:51It's fine. It's true.
05:53So we're kind of having a pre-show conversation.
05:56We're going to get to it later in the show.
05:59How long do you think Todd Bunkin's approach can work
06:03if, in fact, this ends up being a season
06:05where maybe the wins aren't as bountiful as we hope?
06:09Yeah, that part of it's interesting.
06:12I mean, just from the aspect of his very sort of candid,
06:16old-school ways of thinking,
06:19like, I do think it's very opposite from what was here in the past
06:23with Kevin Stefanski, and I think that has served him well.
06:27But, I mean, yeah, you do sort of wonder, like,
06:30if the wins don't come, if, number one, if fans get sick of that,
06:35or, number two, I think how it plays in the locker room, obviously.
06:38But I think that can sort of be said for any coaching style
06:43at any given moment, right?
06:45Like, if wins aren't coming, then it's going to be questioned,
06:49and it's going to be questioned if it's the right fit for that group
06:53at that time.
06:54But, I mean, I do think, as of right now,
06:56it's, like, undeniable to me that he's bought himself some goodwill,
07:00both with the fan base and then I think a lot with those returning players,
07:05just with his current, like, style and attitude.
07:08I think it's serving him well right now,
07:09and we'll see, depending on the record, how long it actually lasts.
07:14Are you tracking the quarterback vacation time workout videos?
07:20We have new Deshaun Watson video.
07:23We have new Shador Sanders video.
07:25I believe on the scorecard we're officially tied at one workout video apiece.
07:32Oh, I'm not tracking that, but that's good to know.
07:35I mean, I'm not surprised because I think that has just become the norm
07:41in the league now, and with these players and social media,
07:45like, they're going to be posting their workouts in the offseason,
07:48and I think it's just this time of year it's going to get noticed more
07:53because no one has anything to talk about, right?
07:56There's no football happening.
07:57So this is, I think, the way into these guys' lives for a lot of fans,
08:02and I think when you're the Browns
08:05and you have a quarterback competition going on,
08:06of course it's going to be discussed endlessly as it is,
08:12and, you know, these guys want to show what they're doing,
08:15and working for that starting job is what they're doing.
08:18So I think I expect more of them.
08:20Maybe I'll have to start tracking the way that we are here for this segment every week.
08:26I feel like that we're doing the draft day.
08:28Who attended Bo Callahan's birthday party?
08:31Yeah.
08:31You know, like, if Shador doesn't go to Deshaun's workout
08:34and if Deshaun doesn't go to Shador's, like,
08:36we're going to have a massive scandal on our hands.
08:39Yeah.
08:40I mean, I do think that Shador comment to remind people from minicamp was interesting,
08:46where he took issue with being asked about, you know,
08:49Deshaun's hosting this off-season workout.
08:51Are you going to host your own?
08:53Are you going to go to his?
08:54And, you know, he, I think, took the opportunity to paint this competition
08:59in the light that he wanted to, that it really, for him,
09:03he wanted to make clear is about the team
09:05and doing what is best for the team and his teammates
09:10and wanted to present this as a united front
09:12versus some super contentious battle,
09:15which, you know, I don't necessarily dislike that approach
09:19because I actually think it's a better approach to the competition
09:22than, I think, as I said on here before,
09:24whatever the heck was going on in Minnesota about a month ago, right,
09:27and that sort of creates these unnecessary narratives and news cycles.
09:31So, yeah, I don't hate that answer from him either.
09:36Ashley, what is the key to this Browns defense
09:38still being top five, top 12, top 14 in 2026 without Myles Garrett?
09:44I think the key to this defense still being in the top of the league
09:48is finding a way to make up for sack production
09:51but doing it across the board.
09:53I mean, number one, I think sacks are so, so, so important.
09:57I know every time we talk to defensive guys in this league,
10:00they always try to play up the fact that it's not just about sacks.
10:04It's about pressures and things like that, other ways to disrupt.
10:08But I do think sacks are just so disruptive on their own
10:11in the way that they can end drives and really derail drives.
10:15They can almost be as valuable as takeaways to me a lot of the time.
10:18But the reality is you're not going to make up for 23 Myles Garrett sacks
10:23with just one person.
10:24And I think some of the better defenses we've seen across the league
10:28in recent years, you know, you think about the Seattle Seahawks.
10:31They did not have one double-digit sacker on that defense,
10:34which is kind of crazy to think about.
10:36I think about the Eagles a couple years ago.
10:38It was much more spread the wealth, maybe a couple guys with 10 or 12.
10:43So I think that's the move.
10:45I think you're going to need Jared Verst to take a step up
10:47from the seven-and-a-half sacks he got last year.
10:50You're going to need more from Alex Wright, Isaiah McGuire.
10:53But I think it's going to have to be done by committee.
10:55This attack defense still needs to be formidable.
10:57And I think spreading the wealth sack-wise is going to help do that.
11:03One quarterback question for you because we don't ask enough of these.
11:08Would Shador Sanders be better off somewhere else outside of Cleveland?
11:14I don't know because we don't know what the end result
11:17of the quarterback competition is going to be.
11:20You know, I think that's what makes it difficult
11:22is because we can't look at this in Cleveland and say,
11:25oh, he's for sure the backup, so he'd be better off going somewhere
11:29where he can start.
11:31I mean, it's a credit to Shador Sanders that he's kept this competition going
11:35when it looked very much like Deshaun Watson was going to pull the way
11:39in the earlier part of the spring.
11:41So, I mean, I think you can make the argument for if the competition
11:44ultimately plays out, Deshaun Watson's the starter,
11:47and if Shador would have the opportunity to go be a starter somewhere else,
11:52like, without knowing what that place is, in theory,
11:55I think that would be the better opportunity.
11:57But I think it's a pretty good opportunity that he's entering year two,
12:01he was a fifth-round pick, and he has the chance to be the starter
12:05for this football team here still.
12:07With a coach in Todd Munkin, by the way,
12:09who has done nothing but mold these very different types of quarterbacks
12:14at all of his stops and who we know really liked Shador Sanders
12:18as a part of that Ravens cohort coming out of the draft last year.
12:22So, I mean, I would still say this is a pretty good situation for him right now.
12:26Ashley, I ask you this because I do know that you cover the Cavs here
12:30in the playoff stretch.
12:32We've debated with Chris Mannix of NBC Sports Boston saying the Cavs and Celtics
12:40make sense on a hypothetical trade for Jalen Brown,
12:44and one player the Celtics would be very interested in is Evan Mobley.
12:48Does an Evan Mobley for Jalen Brown exchange between those two programs
12:53make sense to you?
12:54I mean, I could see why it would be enticing.
12:57So, like, without having much time to think about it,
13:00I'll say yes just from the perspective of with the Cavs.
13:04You do have to wonder, like, hey, is Evan Mobley, like,
13:07is he going to want to be here long-term?
13:09Do you think you can, like, build around him in that way?
13:12And, like, I don't know that there are for sure answers on those things
13:15necessarily right now.
13:17Obviously, we know how much the Cavs have talked about, like,
13:19loving their core four.
13:21But at a certain point when you're not seeing the playoff progress,
13:25like, when do you try to maybe mix things up again?
13:28Like, obviously, they tried one move with Harden this year.
13:32But then you look at the two bigs and you wonder, oh,
13:35is this where they would go next?
13:36At least for me.
13:37And, I mean, the Jalen Brown situation in Boston is funny because,
13:40you know, I've seen jokes online about it.
13:42It seems like this is just every offseason.
13:44Like, Boston's trying to shop the guy and see what they can get for him.
13:47So, I don't know.
13:48Does that concern anyone else?
13:50Does it concern me?
13:51I haven't thought about it enough to truly say.
13:53But, you know, I think for me what I'm most curious about is it, like,
13:56the Evan Mobley, Jared Allen of it all that these guys are going to look to next
14:00and see is there a trade we can make there?
14:02Is there something we could change there that I'm sort of intrigued by?
14:06Might be sacrilegious to ask, but I'm going to because, well,
14:09that's just how I roll.
14:10Should Donovan Mitchell be as untouchable as it seems like he is?
14:15Oh, my word.
14:18Probably because, like, I don't know what else you would have at this point
14:21without Donovan Mitchell.
14:23Like, the Cavs have been so adamant about wanting to build around him.
14:26And, look, I do think some of the criticism Donovan has gotten
14:29throughout his career has maybe been unwarranted.
14:31I do think he's a very good leader for this team.
14:36But I, like, don't know who else you're going to get to come in in theory
14:40and just sort of do everything for you and build around.
14:44So, yeah, I mean, I think it's warranted with Donovan Mitchell
14:47being untouchable by them at this point.
14:51Ashley, strong stuff.
14:52We appreciate you.
14:54I would say you gave Taylor Swift an A minus.
14:57Some Swifty you are.
14:58I would give you an A plus for today.
15:01Oh, that's nice.
15:02Not my best work in this dead period of summer, but I'll take it.
15:06Well, see, I think that's the point is even if this is, like,
15:09a regular season B plus, it is the dead period.
15:12So you stepped it up today.
15:14I'll take it.
15:16Thanks, guys.
15:17Ashley Bastock there.
15:18Cleveland.com.
15:19I'm the Orange and Brown Talk podcast on the Wise Heart Right.
15:22We make it right.
15:23Call Kyle Right Hotline.
15:24I'm the Orange and Brown.
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