00:00In hearing a couple of things that he said, I kind of feel like we're in a spot where we
00:06were in terms of getting answers with the difference between Stefanski and Munkin.
00:12We're in a very similar spot to where when we were going from Joe Woods to Jim Schwartz, where it's
00:17like, I don't think you have everything you need to have a great defense.
00:21And especially as you're kind of switching schemes just a little bit here.
00:24But I don't think it was a coincidence that you saw guys develop in real time, JOK being the first
00:31guy off the mind there, that looked like different players under Jim Schwartz.
00:36I think offensively you're going to see the same thing.
00:38There might be some guys who we've kind of counted out that look different with Todd Munkin if maybe Stefanski
00:45was the problem in terms of offensive development than we kind of thought he is.
00:49Okay, I'm interested in that thought because Joe Woods I just thought was bad at his job.
00:53And so you're right, we didn't see a lot of development with different players.
00:57You had to have the talent.
00:58You had to be Miles Garrett.
00:59You had to have the talent in order to survive around Joe Woods.
01:01We had a lot of Andrew Sandejo type players instead.
01:04And so when it comes to if we're going to have this Munkin handoff from Stefanski, I wanted Stefanski fired.
01:11I was not the biggest Stefanski guy as far as development was concerned.
01:15I think he's a better coach than what Joe Woods was defensively though.
01:18I think they're the same guy, meaning I think Joe was happiest when he was in the film room, when
01:25he was scheming up things.
01:27But when it came time to relate to players and motivate players, I just don't think that I don't think
01:33communication was a strong suit.
01:36I kind of feel the same way about Kevin.
01:38I think Kevin is a really smart X is an O guy.
01:42I do think that there was a moment where he was very confident in his ability to scheme things up.
01:48I don't know if the game changed or if he lost confidence or if he lost confidence in the team
01:52he had.
01:53But I do think, like, I don't think it was a coincidence that AVP gets fired and Bill Callahan goes
02:00away.
02:00And all of a sudden, the communication really suffered and that the team suffered.
02:05Because I think, like, one of the things that Kevin very intelligently outsourced was one of his weaknesses,
02:11which was relating to players and kind of connecting and the kind of things that we love about Mike Vrabel
02:17and the kind of things that I don't think we have to worry about with Todd Munkin.
02:20I guess I was speaking more on, like, did I think Joe Woods was good at his job?
02:23Absolutely not.
02:24Nowhere close.
02:25Did I think Stefanski was good at his job?
02:26Well, I wanted him fired multiple times to tell you everything you need.
02:29But the difference between Joe Woods, the gap between what I think about Joe Woods and then Jim Schwartz,
02:33I think was larger than the gap I felt between Stefanski and now Munkin.
02:38And that's, again, it's not that I don't think Munkin can be good.
02:40I just don't know with Munkin being a head coach.
02:42So while we're talking about Todd Munkin, he was on with the Morning Boys earlier today.
02:47And I didn't say this earlier because I made the comment about the one thing I wish they would have
02:51asked him,
02:52which was just directly, is Deshaun ahead of Shador at this juncture in the offseason?
02:57And so that's not fair to say without saying I thought they did a great job and I thought Todd
03:01was a great listen today.
03:03Todd was awesome.
03:03Yeah.
03:04That was a lot of fun.
03:05Like, and I think these are, the amount of fans I saw that all of a sudden upped their win
03:08total based off of this interview is astounding to me.
03:11Like, I, it's, and it's funny because even in my own head, I'm like, yeah, that's the type of guy
03:14you want.
03:15Like, that type of guy that can be personable, that type of guy that it doesn't seem like, he was
03:19a human.
03:19That's all you're ever asking for.
03:21Yeah.
03:21What a glow up for someone like Munkin who his entire life, he has been told that he is too
03:27honest and too much of a truth broker and he's too direct and forward and all these other things.
03:33And then we get here and after Stefanski, everyone's like, this is all we've ever wanted.
03:37Oh, it's funny.
03:38The great, great landing spot for him, all things considered.
03:40It's funny.
03:40I think the, you have too much personality or you're too honest or you need more polish, whatever it is.
03:47I think that's a, I think it's a relatively recent thing in the NFL.
03:51And I do think, I don't think it's a coincidence that there's been an influx of Ivy leaguers or sub
03:56Ivy league front office guys that there's a, that's a very corporate NFL.
04:02Like, I think Munkin is the guy that 40 years ago in the NFL, he gets a job at 40
04:07because he's everything you think a head coach.
04:10Which is, and those guys now are the guys who have to go, the lifers as it were, or the
04:16guys who once they hit 40, don't turn into, I don't know, Kevin O'Connell.
04:24Those are the guys who I think have that uphill climb once they hit like, you know, 40, 45, 50.
04:30And it's, it's interesting.
04:32Like I, he said something today and we're going to go with 06 here, Mac.
04:36He said something today that when he said it, and it's not the first time he said it, but the,
04:40but when he said it, I was like, oh yeah, Kevin Stefanski would never say this.
04:43As much as I love winning and I hate losing, I despise crappy football.
04:48And I just think that it, it just such a bad look for coaching.
04:52It just is.
04:53It's, you look dumb as a coach.
04:56When you put bad football on the field, you want it to look like you want it to look like.
05:01Now he actually went deeper into that and he, he made sure to say he respects Kevin Stefanski.
05:09He said a lot of the right things.
05:10And I think he, I think he landed the plane and how he said it, but he, I think he
05:14sure pointed out, like he talked about penalties and sloppy play and mental mistakes, which the last two years, not
05:21the entirety of Kevin's thing, although penalties.
05:23Yes, but the last two years, there's just been too much of crappy football and I, I like, it's tough
05:30not to listen to that and be like, well, yeah, that's, that is, that was kind of the hallmark of
05:34the end of Kevin Stefanski's era here.
05:36He's just, he's showcasing a pride that he has to make sure that it won't get to that.
05:39Right.
05:40And I, again, if he, can he pull that off?
05:42I don't know.
05:43I hope that he can, but we'll find out.
05:45I just, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt right now to figure it all out.
05:47I just, I just, you just, you want to let it play out.
05:50That's all I can do right now.
05:51Yeah.
05:51I, he's a first year head coach.
05:53I have no other previous experience with him being a head coach.
05:55I have nothing but to do, but to let it play out.
06:00I agree.
06:01Go Cavs.
06:02No, just keep telling me how you got like a eight win season or nine win season off this.
06:06No, I, I've actually been confident in this since well before everyone else.
06:11I know you were confident in it before we, again, and we don't even know what the quarterback is going
06:15to be.
06:15I don't even know what the quarterback is going to be or even what Todd Monk it is.
06:18And I'm not blaming you for that there.
06:20You can have confidence in it.
06:21But me saying, I want to see it play out a little bit.
06:24I don't think it's the end of the world either.
06:25You playing that hit like a once a week that I think is where I'm going.
06:29I'm just, I'm just needling you now for no reason.
06:32I'm doing it with love.
06:33That being said, screw you.
06:35That's fair.
06:37That is fair.
06:38Shut up.
06:39Now I've yet to meet a coach who openly espouses their love of crappy football.
06:44Yeah.
06:44It'd be weird if he did that.
06:45It'd be weird if he's like, uh, and this is the other thing that it's a, it's like, yes,
06:49he can go through all the special teams plays and different things he wants to clean up.
06:52And it's like, I, every Browns coach enters with the idea that they're going to be the
06:55one to clean this stuff up.
06:56Like every, every Browns coach, how many interviews have we heard where they enter
06:59and it's like, yeah, we're going to get that taken care of.
07:01And then they don't get it taken care of.
07:03So like I, in fairness, I don't think Pat Schirmer said anything like that.
07:06Yeah.
07:07Hugh Jackson said a lot of it.
07:08I think Pat was, yeah, but Hugh said a lot of things in a lot of directions.
07:13I've just, we've seen a lot of different head coaches.
07:14It's Stefanski himself too.
07:16It was constantly like, yep, we're going to get that cleaned up.
07:18We're going to, we won't stand for that.
07:20We're not going to do that.
07:21It's like, okay, well just show me.
07:23He didn't come in day one saying we're going to clean that all up.
07:25It wasn't until things were dirty that then he said, we're going to clean that up.
07:29And then he just kept going to it and going to it and going to it.
07:32And it's like, all right, that's fine.
07:33He was going to get there.
07:34You just had to let it see play out.
07:38Hey, Aditi.
07:38That was what.
07:39Aditi did this all yesterday.
07:40Aditi was like, it's way too early.
07:42When Aditi says it, I think that gives me the green light to let this one play out a
07:45little bit.
07:45It annoyed me yesterday.
07:46I think it does.
07:47I don't know why it annoyed you.
07:48We've never seen him coach.
07:49We don't know way.
07:50We don't even know who the quarterback's going to be.
07:52Listen, for right now.
07:53You don't know who the quarterback's going to be.
07:54Munkin sounding different than Kevin Stefanski is just, it just, again, it rhymes with the
08:02truth.
08:03And that's all you really want from your head coach is relatability.
08:06Does it sound like it makes sense?
08:09Like he's going, every head coach in the NFL lies.
08:12Every head coach in the NFL BS is.
08:13And that is ultimately part of our job is to assess when we think he's full of crap.
08:18And when we, when we think he's telling the truth, uh, when maybe he should be lying and
08:22when maybe he should be telling the truth, but like, yeah, it's refreshing.
08:27And like, honestly, the, I do think like, I think with, with Todd, I don't think when you're
08:34interviewing him, you're going to be doing the same mental gymnastics that I think became
08:39the thing with Kevin, where you're trying to kind of create this bulletproof thing.
08:45And you're, you're, you're trying to get like the right answer out of Kevin.
08:48I think you can just ask him direct questions.
08:51That doesn't mean he's going to give you a direct answer every time, but you have a chance.
08:57And I think that's another thing that, again, I think Todd pointing out, he could have just
09:02been fluffing the Cleveland media here, fluffing the morning boys and in our station, but him
09:07saying, you know, Hey, you guys play an integral role in all this.
09:11Yeah.
09:12That is, that is, that is kind of the part that the head coach can help the organization
09:16with, especially when the organization has optics problems out the union.
09:20Yeah.
09:20They just, he seemed like he knew what he was doing and it was in control and it wasn't
09:23tough.
09:23Like he, and you get him on things he's interested in my course racing.
09:26It felt like he wanted to keep the segment going.
09:28They were the ones that had to be like, all right, we've got to cut this thing off.
09:30You spend five minutes on horse racing.
09:32Now, Todd, he would have gone for 25 minutes on horse racing.
09:35If you let him, we do kind of have to address.
09:38So Baskin and Lima's horse guy, basically Dick Girardi today, Baskin and, and Lima's horse
09:44guy fibbing, not fibbing.
09:47I don't know.
09:48I don't know what to make of it.
09:49Yeah.
09:49I don't know what to make of it.
09:51I, it's not great.
09:52It's not great for their horse guy.
09:54And this being the story, the whole story.
09:56It was built around the idea that it was like, they got the tip off that the horses
09:59were on the ground, right?
10:00Planes were in the air.
10:01Everyone was looking at that, but the horses on the ground is what we need to be checking.
10:04And Munkin's like, no, I don't even, I don't even own horses.
10:07So what, what horse guy was tipping them off?
10:09Yeah.
10:09Or was the horse guy?
10:11But it ended up being right.
10:12Honestly, is there even a horse guy?
10:13Well, it ended up being right.
10:14Does the guy, does the horse guy even have horses himself?
10:17Munkin, Munkin was not the favorite at all though, to be the head coach.
10:20And I, when, when Lima said it that morning, he was still nowhere close to the favorite
10:24to be in the head coach.
10:25I thought Cal, she had him.
10:27Am I wrong on that?
10:28No, at like eight o'clock they did once we started going on that.
10:32But like, uh, at 620, when Lima first said it, Cal, she didn't have that.
10:36And the night prior, there, there was four candidates remaining.
10:39Munkin was last by a mile.
10:41All right.
10:42Two and six, four, seven, four.
10:44It would have been dumb to just be like, I think Munkin's going to be the guy.
10:46If you had no actual tips, is Munkin sounding different than Kevin, Kevin Stefanski, the
10:50best part right now.
10:52I do want to a little supposition here.
10:54Here's Todd Munkin on, uh, the best way to stop negativity.
10:58You want to stop the narrative play.
11:00Well, I'll stop a narrative when it's really that simple.
11:04Now there's more that goes into that.
11:06Cause I got scrutinized by just saying, Oh, winning.
11:08I know there's more to it.
11:09I get that.
11:10But ultimately that's what it is.
11:13Is he subtweeting you there?
11:14I think so.
11:15Yeah, I think so.
11:16And that's fine.
11:16That's fine.
11:17I like that.
11:17Uh, I like the, cause I did, I wanted more than him just saying, uh, winning is the answer
11:21to it.
11:21This kind of goes to some of the things that he said this morning where I'm like, well,
11:24tell me how, tell me how you're going to actually change this and do this.
11:27Cause I've heard too many Browns coaches come in and say, winning's the cure.
11:31Winning is going to be this.
11:32And it's like, no, he's not wrong.
11:35Yes.
11:35Winning's the answer, but anyone can say winning is the answer.
11:37Like that's part of the problem.
11:39You have to actually like, show me how you're going to do the winning portion of this.
11:42It's a great speech to come up and be like, winning cures everything.
11:45Yeah, of course it does.
11:47I'm going to need a little bit more than that.
11:48We're playing at the very shallow end of the pool.
11:51If you think, uh, winning cures everything is going to be enough of an answer.
11:54But isn't, um, but if that's proprietary information there, like you're asking about how are you
12:01going to win?
12:02Well, what if that, well, they don't want everyone to know that.
12:05It's a bad answer still.
12:06Then don't bring it up.
12:08It's a bad answer still.
12:10So he should, then what do you want him to say instead?
12:12Anything but that.
12:13Anything but winning is the answer because it's obvious.
12:16I think winning is the answer.
12:17I think now that we got to it, like.
12:19Why is he being difficult today?
12:20What if he says not losing?
12:21Yeah.
12:22Yeah.
12:22There we go.
12:23Yeah.
12:23Or losing less.
12:24So you're, so I just, I want to get on the record here.
12:26You get on the record, whatever way you want to get on the record.
12:29Are you saying winning is not the answer?
12:32No.
12:32You're missing the whole point.
12:34Okay.
12:34And I don't know if you're intentionally trying to piss me off.
12:37I think you are.
12:38I think it's a little bit of both.
12:39I think it's a fun game for you or if you're just being obtuse.
12:41I'm not sure.
12:42I don't know which one it is right now.
12:44You never know with me.
12:44I don't know.
12:45I really don't.
12:45You always throw me curve balls.
12:47It's like, are you, are you, are you intentionally being this dumb or what's happening here?
12:52Some could say I'm being a knob.
12:55Go back.
12:56Go back.
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