00:00Zach Jackson of The Athletic joining us now.
00:02Zach, welcome to the show.
00:04Hi, guys. How we doing?
00:05Oh, it's a Friday. We got a Miles Garrett trade.
00:09We're just happy the content gods have shined upon us this week.
00:12How about you?
00:13Yeah, I would say that's a fair assessment of the situation at this point, right?
00:18It happened on Monday.
00:20Still can't believe they trotted the head coach out there to do a press conference
00:2310 minutes before the trade was finalized, but they did.
00:26It's what they do.
00:27And now they move forward.
00:29So it makes sense to me, guys.
00:31It always did.
00:33And I think they got a fairly good return.
00:35So we see how it works.
00:37But they needed to embrace where they are.
00:39And where they are is nowhere close to where they ultimately want to be.
00:42So it's interesting, you say, the idea of the return and how it's being viewed.
00:48One of the recent stories that have come out this week is the idea that Andrew Barry
00:52has a group chat with a bunch of GMs in other sports, including Sam Presti of the Thunder,
00:57and that Sam Presti likened this, and Andrew Barry likened this to the Shea Gilgis-Alexander
01:03trade for Paul George between OKC and the Clippers some seven years ago, which turns out it worked
01:10better for the Thunder than it did the Clippers.
01:12Can the Miles trade be Barry's version of the SGA trade?
01:18Well, I think it has to be, right?
01:20And that's why since January of 25, I was like, one thing the Browns need to do is trade
01:25Miles Garrett.
01:25Like, what other way can they move forward?
01:28And what other way can the GM who engineered the worst trade in NFL history save his job?
01:34So I think what's changed since then is there's been a pretty strong commitment to him and
01:38to this front office from ownership.
01:41And, you know, and we see how this works out.
01:43I mean, this trade is about the back half of 27 and 28 and beyond, and that's a long,
01:48long way from right now.
01:49So it's not all about Miles Garrett and Jared Burse.
01:52It's not all about the quarterbacks, but it's pretty much about the quarterbacks in the
01:56future here for this team because, you know, what's probably directly in front of the Browns
02:04is a really bad season in the win-loss column.
02:07Now, can it be a successful season in certain areas?
02:10Sure.
02:10Could I be wrong in my assessment?
02:13Sure.
02:13We haven't seen a Todd Monk in offense, but I mean, let's be honest about what the ceiling
02:17of this team probably is for 2026.
02:19Zach, I thought the absence of guys like Schwestinger, for instance, talking about his golf game,
02:25having a slice, like the absence of, in that spot, saying, Miles Garrett taught me how to
02:30be this, taught me how to do this, taught me how to act like a pro.
02:33I thought the, it's not that anyone hammered him, obviously.
02:35I thought the absence of those words that are pretty customary after a great player leaves
02:40was pretty startling.
02:41Did you notice that as well, or was that something that it just didn't rub you one way or another?
02:46Why would that be startling or surprising whatsoever?
02:49Well, I mean, we know that Miles-
02:50Has anybody ever said those things?
02:51No, I guess they didn't even bother to give him the lip service of it.
02:55You know what I mean?
02:56Like, I think the, again, when you're not saying these words, I feel like it speaks pretty heavy.
03:01Yeah.
03:01I mean, I get what you're saying, but yeah.
03:04I mean, this was about giving, part of what this was about was about giving the head coach
03:08a chance to create his own culture, right?
03:10This team is going to be like 20 plus 21 and 22 year olds this year.
03:15And a lot of them look up to Miles Garrett.
03:17And if Miles Garrett has his own set of rules and standards, we've seen how that goes.
03:21So, this was an endorsement of Todd Munkin's ability to build a culture and eventually
03:27build a winner.
03:30Zach, apparently Dylan Gabriel will be swapping out the number eight for another number here.
03:35I haven't seen what it's going to be yet.
03:37I want to pitch to you that I think, this is maybe why it's taken time to get approval.
03:43I think he should take the number 95.
03:45What say you?
03:47Well, he was in college long enough.
03:48I'm sure he wore a bunch of different numbers.
03:50So, there's got to be one that fits, right?
03:53It's funny because that was one thing I was actually thinking as I was walking out to the
03:56practice field on Wednesday as I wonder what they're going to be wearing when they're both
03:59wearing eight.
04:00But I hadn't really given it a thought beyond that.
04:03So, I don't think he's eligible to wear 95.
04:06I am a big proponent, aesthetically, of defensive linemen wearing single digits.
04:11Imagine what Miles would have looked like in a single digit.
04:15But I think the single digit for Dylan is three, as in three more months, he's a Cleveland
04:19Browns.
04:20So, we'll see.
04:21I'm not sure much of that discussion is necessary.
04:24What have you made of the quarterback race so far?
04:26What have you seen from Shador and Deshaun out there?
04:30A little good, a little bad.
04:32I think we've seen, you know, the basics of a quarterback competition, but more the basics
04:36of an offensive installation.
04:38Deshaun does look healthy and refreshed, as he should.
04:41I thought on Wednesday that Shador looked comfortable for the first time in his throws and in his
04:47body language otherwise.
04:48It certainly hasn't been perfect.
04:50And what was Wednesday?
04:52OTA eight.
04:53You have expected progress.
04:54And it was like 2009 level bad.
04:56I mean, it was horrendous just standing on the sideline.
04:58But when we're standing on the sideline, whether we're handing out trophies and planning parades
05:03or criticizing, like we don't know all that we're watching and evaluating.
05:07We don't know what they're being asked to do, right?
05:09And of course, there is an ugliness to this.
05:12It's, you know, just the second level of the install.
05:15It's just the first week of June.
05:17So, you know, I don't know that there's going to be a winner to this.
05:20Obviously, someone's going to win the quarterback job.
05:23But is there going to be a winner to this competition?
05:25I don't know.
05:26I think everyone expects the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns going forward is not on
05:29this roster right now.
05:30I think Shador has somewhat of a realistic chance, you know, to change that thinking.
05:38I would say it's somewhat of a realistic chance.
05:40I don't think we've seen anything that has made me strengthen or weaken that part of it.
05:45I mean, that would obviously be the most direct way out of this mess that they're in,
05:49this level of failure that led to him trading Myles Garrett.
05:55There's no other way to put the Deshaun Watson situation right now.
05:57And there's no explanation for wanting Deshaun Watson to play football for this team in 2026.
06:02So I do feel like it's up in the air right now.
06:05I don't think that resolution to it is coming until we get into training camp in late July
06:10and probably in early August.
06:12And then we'll analyze it as it goes from there.
06:15But, you know, I think the number of ways, and I emphasize ways this can still go,
06:20or multiple, because they're both going to play at some point during the season.
06:23That's how it goes.
06:24We know Jimmy Haslam likes to fall in love with ideas, big ideas, ambitious ideas,
06:30especially when it comes to his football team.
06:32And I've seen a fair amount of speculation that Munkin and Barry are really short timers here,
06:38that this season is about, you know, going through the pain of getting the number one
06:43or number two or number three pick this next year,
06:45all in service of getting Arch Manning, Texas quarterback,
06:49even so much as people suggesting that Jimmy is making inroads with the Manning family
06:55behind the scenes to ensure that if they got in a position to take Arch,
07:00that he would agree to come to the Cleveland Browns.
07:04That is the big old pile of speculation there, though.
07:07But do you think this is all about the march for Arch,
07:09even at the expense of Munkin and Barry?
07:14No, because the way you framed it, I would say that there's absolutely zero evidence
07:17that Andrew Barry is a short-timer here.
07:19There is amount of evidence that Andrew Barry is a long-timer here.
07:22We don't know on Munkin.
07:24We will see.
07:25I would say that in grading the GM that he would be interested in wanting his head coach to succeed,
07:31and that would be part of this partnership, eventually thriving and succeeding.
07:36You know, I find it hard to believe that Todd Munkin is really going to be a short-timer here,
07:42but I don't ever go into a Browns season claiming that I know what's going to happen.
07:48Yeah, which is fair.
07:49There is a lot working against him.
07:51There really is.
07:53And maybe he will do a wonderful job, and maybe he will build a culture,
07:56and maybe both his voice and his offense will be what this team needs
08:01to get on the road back to respectability.
08:03In the big picture.
08:05There is zero evidence that Andrew Barry is a short-timer.
08:08I mean, right now, you could look around and say that Andrew Barry is going to be the GM here
08:11for as long as he wants.
08:13I mean, four years ago, he made the worst trade in the history of the NFL.
08:17Since then, he's been extended.
08:19He gets to hire a new coach.
08:21He gets to trade the best defensive player the franchise has ever had.
08:25Yeah.
08:25When do you think the payoff is coming, then?
08:27I made the suggestion the other day.
08:28I think 2028 is when I can see you starting to be competitive
08:31and starting to have contender label, potentially.
08:35When is the payoff for Browns fans?
08:37I can't say when the payoff is because there hasn't been much of one.
08:41You know, with the exception of a season here and there,
08:43I could say that a realistic timeline is the back half of 27 to see progress.
08:49I mean, half the roster this year is going to be first- and second-year players.
08:52So, if you continue to acquire and develop those guys,
08:57if Jared versus the player that you hope that he thinks he is
09:00and the locker room leader that you hope that he thinks he is
09:02and you can build the kind of locker room culture that you need,
09:05like, just being out there, guys, I think really, like,
09:08you can see the talent in Concepcion in Boston.
09:10You can see that Isaiah Bond is making strides towards being an NFL receiver.
09:14You know, you can see the vision they have for McNeil Warren.
09:18I think the first change they make on the offensive line
09:21will include Austin Barber, a third-round pick.
09:23Like, there's a lot to be excited about, but does this stuff translate to wins,
09:27especially if you don't get competent quarterback play
09:29or you play quarterback shuffle again?
09:31I don't know, but this is about talent acquiring, you know,
09:34acquiring talent and developing talent, and they're a long way away.
09:38And, yeah, this trade told you that the timeline is, you know,
09:4218 months from now, basically.
09:44I'm not going to sit here and do the exact math,
09:45but around that is when you start, I think, to judge it.
09:49And so, you know, will the coach and the GM get that time?
09:52I think at least – I think logic says yes, and history says –
09:57or, you know, just the optics say that the GM certainly is.
10:00We'll see about the rest.
10:02Zach, something we're going to be asking all of our guests today
10:05comes from something we've been throwing around off the air,
10:08and it pertains to Super Bowls.
10:10If we go to the last 10 Super Bowls, so obviously the last one would be
10:15the Seahawks or the Patriots, but the kind of –
10:17the far-reaching one would be the Patriots and the Falcons.
10:20What is the greatest Super Bowl in the last decade?
10:26Oh, gosh.
10:27I know the last two years I've gone to bed in the third quarter
10:29because they've been blowouts.
10:32Probably Patriots-Falcons, right?
10:35I don't know.
10:37That's not a question I was prepared to answer today.
10:39I'm just going to give you that.
10:40I've been watching high school basketball,
10:41and I'm about to watch summer league baseball,
10:43so I'm not prepared to dig back in this aging mind for Super Bowl trivia.
10:48I actually think you had the right answer, by the way.
10:50That's definitely one of the most acceptable ones.
10:54Zach, we appreciate you, buddy.
10:56Thank you very much.
10:57All right, guys.
10:57Thanks.
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