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00:00Mary Kay Cabot's report about Deshaun Watson taking the early lead on the quarterback job
00:07and her imploring the Browns to name a starting quarterback in a quick manner
00:13has gotten a lot of feedback from folks.
00:18One such person was Shiloh Sanders, who on Instagram said something pretty equivalent to
00:25go make a sandwich, Mary.
00:26I think it was exactly that.
00:28Yeah, it was exactly that.
00:30And so Mary Kay Cabot was asked about that, on with the Morning Boys today, and here was
00:34her response.
00:35I really do believe that I have been an inspiration for lots of women and young girls to know that
00:43you can go out there and do a good job in a man's world and take on all of that
00:51that comes
00:51with that.
00:52And I know that there are so many women who have joined the football world, especially
00:57because of some of the things that I've been able to do over the years.
01:00And I'm happy about that.
01:02And I know that will continue.
01:03Now we've got women in flag football, playing flag football all over the place.
01:08And I'm just happy that I have been able to help set the tone and open some doors in that
01:14way.
01:14And I know that that will continue.
01:17And that's just that's just how I feel about that.
01:19All right.
01:20So Mary Kay took took the high road on this, which she didn't have to do.
01:25What Shiloh said was not just condescending.
01:28It was misogynistic.
01:30And I've seen people get very cute saying, no, no, no.
01:34She starved for attention.
01:37So he's saying, if you're hungry, go make a sandwich.
01:41Oh, I didn't even catch that.
01:42Yeah.
01:42Yeah.
01:43I've seen a few people say that.
01:44I didn't even catch that.
01:45That's being obtuse.
01:47That is.
01:47And purposefully obtuse and not really helpful in any way.
01:53Well, I do want to get to the Mary Kay part of this and why I think what Shiloh said
01:58beyond
01:59just misogyny isn't emphatically wrong.
02:03But Shiloh on his Twitter, the Sanders, they like their attention.
02:08Shiloh had a message for Mary Kay.
02:11This is to Mary Kay.
02:12If you're going to be a reporter, be a reporter and report facts.
02:16Whenever you have your opinion and your opinion is always something hateful to Shador, then
02:23it makes it seem like it's something weird, like it's an agenda that you have going on.
02:27There's plenty of women in this field that take this serious and take reporting football
02:32serious and actually do homework and study the game and get the statistics right and
02:38get the news right.
02:39But with you, it's so much emotion that I don't want you to make women look bad when it comes
02:45to reporting because you don't have the will to actually want to report real things that
02:50are going on.
02:50So it don't even make sense.
02:52You want to go talk about this and that.
02:54In minicamp, they don't even have all the receivers.
02:56You've been saying crazy things for the past since he's been there.
03:00So it's like, just chill with that because it don't make no sense.
03:03And it makes you look crazy.
03:03Like you don't know what you're talking about.
03:05And for all the women that actually take the time to go do their research and actually
03:10be real reporters and real journalists, then that's going to make them look bad, bro.
03:15Because you already know as a woman in this field of reporting football and sports, like
03:18it's hard.
03:18So don't make it hard on everybody just because you don't feel like it.
03:21Now, I will say, if you have started a conversation by being misogynistic, following up by gaslighting,
03:29probably not the best way to go about it.
03:32Hey, I didn't think what I was saying was misogynistic.
03:35Or maybe I just didn't think about what I typed on Instagram because I don't think social
03:40media is real.
03:41That would have been a better response than, no, she has an agenda against my little brother
03:47there.
03:49Man, I got to tell you.
03:50Yeah.
03:50I really like Shador Sanders.
03:53Like everything I've ever seen about that kid with my own two eyes is he is a genuine
03:58kid.
03:59Any mistakes I think he might make are done in earnest.
04:03He seems to have the biggest heart.
04:05He seems to have a great worldly perspective.
04:08Everyone that surrounds him, I just want nothing to do with because they do stuff like this.
04:16And it's funny, like I know we're getting into some weeds here.
04:20I don't think this helps Shador be better.
04:23No, not at all.
04:24It just, it's just a distraction.
04:25And it just, it just makes you seem like the people you're keeping company with right
04:28now.
04:28It's his brother.
04:29You don't choose your brother, obviously.
04:30So there's a part of me that wants to, I like, you can't say the things that Shiloh said.
04:37You shouldn't double down on the things that Shiloh said.
04:39All of that is 100% true.
04:42And I don't know, I don't know what you do if you're Shador because it's like you can't,
04:45you can't have your brothers out here speaking.
04:47I know he recognizes it's supposed to come from a good place, but when you're doing these
04:51type of things, it doesn't come from a good place.
04:54And it doesn't come from a place that is helping at all.
04:56And if anything, it's going to really kill him if he's got to try to have another opportunity
04:59with a different team, because no team's going to look at what's happened so far and be like,
05:03we want that around us.
05:04And that's not Shador's fault.
05:06It's the people around Shador.
05:08But if people keep doing this and Shador doesn't have something to say to them or request for
05:14them, then at some point people are going to start taking it as this is just how Shador
05:19feels and Shiloh's the messenger.
05:21Sure, that's another part of this, right?
05:22How many times have we had instances where it's like the wife is online and she's saying
05:27something and it's like, well, I probably think that's the real player that is saying
05:30those words.
05:31It's just the wife is the one with the social media account and then it doesn't directly
05:34go to the player.
05:35So yes, there's 100% that reality that's attached to it.
05:38And there's something about the Sanders camp that I don't think they realize the pressure
05:44it puts on Shador.
05:45I think Shador was worn out by everything of last year.
05:50And it wasn't just Kevin Stefanski was mean to him.
05:53I think the noise is a lot to bear.
05:57And the rebuttal is, well, he can handle it.
06:00Doesn't mean he should have to.
06:02And at some point, Shador's got to stand up and say, hey, you're not helping me.
06:06This doesn't make me any better.
06:07This is a distraction.
06:08Please stop.
06:08And if he does it, again, it sure looks like an endorsement of what is being said.
06:13But at the same point, it's needless.
06:17And an attack on Mary Kay Cabot.
06:19And here's what pisses me off.
06:21There's a bunch of people on social media that I've watched for years.
06:25Anytime they don't like what she's reporting, whether it's her personal opinion, which she
06:31always differentiates between breaking news, or whether it's her actual just what she's
06:36reporting.
06:36They go after her credibility.
06:38And in fairness, they don't just do it to Mary Kay.
06:41That's the big thing.
06:42I don't like what you're saying, so you have no credibility.
06:46And the truth is, Mary Kay Cabot has been doing this as long as I have been alive.
06:51And she has been doing this at a level that she deserves all the respect.
06:55I disagree.
06:56Whatever the Deshaun Watson thing, the idea that Deshaun has overtaken Shador, the idea
07:02enrages me.
07:04Mary Kay didn't dream it up.
07:06Sources in that building told her this.
07:10She is a reporter.
07:11She gathers what the vibe is.
07:15Not the vibe, but the details are in Berea.
07:18And then she puts them out.
07:20And that is credibility.
07:21Because she's done that for 30 years.
07:23And she gets more crap than guys like I do, or our male counterpoints.
07:28And it's absolute crap.
07:30No one has more credibility in this town than Mary Kay Cabot.
07:34And as far as I'm concerned, Shiloh can just go ahead and shut all the way up.
07:40So here's the problem, and this is what I've noticed around the people around Shador as
07:43well, is that you can hear it in Shiloh when he tries to describe everything.
07:47It's almost like they try to use bullying tactics.
07:49As if to be like, I'm going to tell you she's not doing her job, and I'm going to tell
07:53you
07:53that she's not credible, and I'm going to tell you this, and I'm going to tell you that.
07:56And I think in Colorado it probably worked.
07:58In Colorado, Deion could tell a reporter, we don't want you in this press room, you're
08:01not going to be in this press room.
08:02Because that works at the college level.
08:04And they have.
08:05And this even, I don't take many shots in Shador's direction, but this even goes back
08:08to his opening press conference a week ago, week and a half ago, where he tried to tell
08:12the reporters, you guys need to be more positive.
08:13It's not the first time he's done something like that.
08:15It's like, you don't get to call the shots.
08:18That's where I get angry in this discussion.
08:19You don't get to tell the reporters and the people on the beat how to do their job.
08:24That's not how this works.
08:25They get to do their job, and they get to do it to the best of their ability.
08:28You guys don't get to call the shots.
08:30In college, you do.
08:31I bet around college programs and college atmospheres.
08:34Coaches, players, they do get to call the shots in those small towns.
08:37That's not how this works in the NFL.
08:39And a guy that got cut by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in training camp does not have more credibility
08:45than someone who's been the face of the Browns beat for 30 damn years.
08:50And the fact that people are going along with this, that live in Cleveland here, right,
08:56that should understand the difference between a reporter report.
09:00Guys, you want to be pissed about the Deshaun report?
09:02Put it where it belongs.
09:03Put it on the Browns.
09:05They're the ones saying this.
09:07Be mad at the Browns, not the reporter, not the person that we've known for 30 years
09:14that is doing her damn job.
09:19The truth is, I'm so pissed about this that this is probably where we're going to button it up
09:23because I could get even angrier about it.
09:26But I just, one more time, Mary Kay Cabot deserves a hell of a lot more than this.
09:30And if you're siding with, I'll never side with a player because I like the player
09:36when the player's camp is wrong on this.
09:39And Shiloh Sanders is insanely wrong on this.
09:43Fortunately, this is not the first time this has happened for Mary Kay,
09:46so she knows how to handle it and she can take it in stride and she doesn't,
09:49you know what I mean?
09:50Like, she'll be all right.
09:51She can withstand Shiloh Sanders making a comment, but the comment never should have came.
09:55We didn't get a chance to actually, you did, but I did not get a chance to react to
10:00Mary Kay's report yesterday that Deshaun has got the early lead here on
10:06The inside track.
10:07The inside track, as it were.
10:09And I understand that we are all scarred by the last two years of Browns offensive football.
10:17And that is going to inform a lot of thinking.
10:19And teams do think from year to year, right?
10:22Like, it is not uncommon that, like, for instance, 2024, the huge thing that sunk the Browns were turnovers.
10:32And so Kevin Stefanski said that next year, our quarterback is not going to turn the ball over.
10:38That's the number one thing we're not going to have.
10:40And the problem is, he course corrected it so hard that it neutered Joe Flacco, who then, once he was
10:48traded to Cincinnati, started throwing for 400 yards.
10:50And even in some ways neutered Dylan Gabriel, too.
10:53Totally fair, by the way.
10:55That is a case of course correcting too hard.
10:59So if the lesson from last year is, all right, four-man quarterback battles, that's not a real thing, and
11:06you have to have some sense of urgency to name a starting quarterback, I think that's a smart lesson to
11:11learn.
11:13Taking that to, we have to name a starting quarterback as soon as humanly possible, feels like the gross overcorrection
11:20that we need not do, in my opinion.
11:21I don't even know that it was like an overcorrection.
11:24I like the thought.
11:25I like the place you took it.
11:27I just don't think this is them overcorrecting to what happened last year.
11:30I think this is just them saying, we never gave up on Deshaun Watson.
11:33And he's got the inside track because, of course, he's got the inside track.
11:37And so I got a little worried at the response yesterday, Nick.
11:41I went on this whole thing and a big tangent about how after three install days do you possibly have
11:46your quarterback named and figured out and all this other stuff.
11:49And there wasn't the pushback that I thought was going to happen.
11:52There was not the, I can't believe Deshaun Watson, they're going to do this again.
11:55That was not the mentality that we took and we had all day long.
11:59The overwhelming response was, if he looks better in practice, then throw him out there and let this go.
12:03My response back to that was...
12:05It's three days?
12:06It's three days.
12:07And you didn't even have your full offense there?
12:09And we watched him be the better quarterback and practice three straight seasons.
12:13And it didn't work out well.
12:15And so, like, it's just, I was a little shocked by the response yesterday and the calm nature that fans
12:20had.
12:20I thought people would be as riled up as I was and they really were not.
12:23It's funny.
12:24I saw the riled up stuff on social media.
12:27We had a conversation.
12:28We had full phone lines.
12:29We did it for all five hours, essentially.
12:31But it wasn't riled up in the idea of, I thought it'd be like, I look online and it is
12:3699% of people being like, you know what, Jonathan?
12:38You're right.
12:39How are they possibly doing this again?
12:41How are they going to entertain Deshaun Watson?
12:43That was not the response at all.
12:44I just, the one part that I thought was interesting is, think back to Charles Robinson, who, after Deshaun was
12:53traded and started to struggle, Charles Robinson reported that, like, basically, Bill O'Brien was relaying the information, the offensive
13:02information to Deshaun Watson from the sidelines.
13:04We brought that up and people just denied it.
13:06I mean, that's exactly how social media goes and how things go in 2026.
13:12It all runs contrary to how I feel.
13:14Oh, I don't want that to be true.
13:16On the phone lines.
13:16They just straight up.
13:17You know the other weird part about yesterday?
13:19What's that?
13:19I did not have a great response in the moment.
13:21We took two different calls, though.
13:23I gave a good response.
13:24I have a better one coming.
13:25We gave two phone calls and Coach Riz was with me and they tried making the case that Deshaun Watson
13:30had nothing to work with in the time that he was here.
13:32My response back in the time, in, like, the moment, real live moment was, you had one of the better
13:36offensive lines that the Browns had.
13:38You had Nick Chubb, you had Amari Cooper, you had way more than enough to work with, right?
13:42The best response to that, though, and what should have happened is the idea that Joe Flacco legitimately took that
13:47team to the playoffs.
13:48The team that Deshaun Watson couldn't, he took to the playoffs.
13:51Like, you can't try to rewrite, oh, poor Deshaun Watson not having enough of an opportunity.
13:57He had way more than enough of an opportunity.
13:59Also, aren't elite players supposed to make the pieces around them better?
14:04Another good point by you.
14:05Wasn't that a thing that I heard?
14:07I mean, we were told all offseason, right?
14:09You want the quarterback that it's not you win because of, or you win because of, not because, not with,
14:15right?
14:15That's the line?
14:16Like, yes, you're 100% right.
14:18So, again, I want to be very clear that I know Mary Kay's reporting this, so this is what she's
14:25hearing.
14:26And so I always look to, all right, what's the building going for?
14:30What are they trying to do?
14:33I have no doubt that a guy who's played 10 years in the NFL after three practices might have picked
14:38up an offense quicker than a guy in his second year in the NFL.
14:43Do I think that means it's the widest chasm ever and we should, you know, consider Deshaun Watson, or sorry,
14:49Shador down for the count?
14:51Absolutely not.
14:52But this does, I think, drive at something that I've said, that I think the Browns have told Shador, here's
14:59how you get your keys to the kingdom.
15:01Here's your path to being the starting quarterback.
15:03I think even with Jimmy Haslam at the owners' meetings talking about, you know, the kind of encouragement they've given
15:10to Deshaun and what it looks like to be the starting quarterback, the face of the franchise, right?
15:15I think this could be a stress test on Shador.
15:18I do.
15:19So you've called this a farce before, the Deshaun Watson thing.
15:22Do you still believe that after yesterday?
15:23Yeah.
15:23Yeah, I do.
15:24I do.
15:25I'll believe that he's going to start week one when he's named the starting quarterback in camp and when he
15:30starts week one.
15:31I'll believe that.
15:33He has shown absolutely nothing in Cleveland that proves he can still play football.
15:37It has been six years removed.
15:39Since he's played anything resembling good football, he's coming off two Achilles injuries and a shoulder injury.
15:45So the idea that a guy who's been pretty traditionally a good practice player look good in practice doesn't mean
15:52a damn thing to me.
15:53I know.
15:53And it doesn't mean anything to me either.
15:54And so that was kind of the battle that we just kept getting into.
15:57And Coach made a couple good points.
15:59He was like, you know, like if you're Munkin, you're going to fall for the idea that he's looking good
16:04in practice.
16:04And how else is Munkin supposed to go off of this?
16:06And I understand all that.
16:08But like Nick, we've just been, and what I told him, we've just been through too many scars and too
16:11many battles with Deshaun.
16:12We've seen this.
16:13And the scary part, and I've told you this for how many months, the part that was worrying me the
16:17most about this whole ordeal was that Munkin would see how good of a practice quarterback Deshaun Watson is.
16:23And that would tip the scales in his favor.
16:25And Munkin, because he hasn't been through it, wouldn't know the difference.
16:28But you know who has?
16:29Andrew Barry and Jimmy has them.
16:31And that's where it's a shame on them to be like, all right, yeah, of course.
16:34It's just something special, isn't he?
16:35No, he does this all the time.
16:38The part that doesn't translate is Deshaun from the practice field to the games.
16:41That part never translates.
16:43And they need to account for that.
16:45Yeah, and here's the thing.
16:47Everybody should understand the sunk cost fallacy.
16:50Google it if you don't.
16:53We're here, okay?
16:54We're here.
16:55We've been here.
16:56And I just continue to come back to the idea that it takes so much gall to put Deshaun Watson
17:08out there again.
17:10That the Browns, who have shown gall like you wouldn't believe.
17:13That's all they do.
17:14Countless times before, this still feels like such an incredible overstep of previous gall showing exercises that it still seems
17:23counter logical that they would actually be willing to do this.
17:28And then I do think that, again, I think Deshaun, because of every, all the understandable things.
17:34Well, the contract.
17:35Well, but look what they gave up for him.
17:36Maybe they're going to try and get something out of him.
17:38Don't you know he used to be someone in Houston?
17:40Houston, all of those things are plausible reasons for Shador to fear Deshaun.
17:47And if you're the Browns, and you don't see what you want out of Shador yet, and you maybe are
17:52not buying all the way in that Shador's going to be able to take this job,
17:55the best thing you can do if you think at some point he didn't give you what you needed last
18:00year, even if it was early in the process,
18:02this would be the time to apply pressure, and this would be the way you do it.
18:05This is the part that bothers me, though, is that this isn't even like, hey, they looked around and said
18:08Shador can't do it.
18:09But that was three days of installs, Nick.
18:11Like, that's not enough to look around and be like, how much has Shador learned this offseason?
18:15That's not even giving it a fair shake.
18:17Oh, no, no.
18:18But that's why it does feel like a little bit of a red herring.
18:21Like, it's a little bit of an early stress test on him, his confidence.
18:24So the other part of this is, if you're going to take the other route, and I hear what you're
18:27saying,
18:27but the other thought is that they're just trying to get everyone conditioned to the idea that it will be
18:32Deshaun Week 1.
18:33Oh, I don't.
18:34And so they're spending like four months or whatever this is now to say, all right, get people comfortable.
18:39Get people with the idea that this is going to be Deshaun.
18:42Go crazy on Twitter now because this is coming.
18:45But here's the thing.
18:46Shador can go out this year and be a work in progress, be pretty decent.
18:51But as long as he's showing progress, there's going to be a lot of people that I think give him
18:56a fair shake this year,
18:57even in spite of all the incessant noise that comes with Shador.
19:01If Deshaun is anything less than the guy he was in Houston, there really just is no payoff here.
19:07And we can get into, well, but Todd Munkin hasn't been here the last four years.
19:11We can get into, well, Todd Munkin starting from square one with everyone.
19:16Yeah, but he's not.
19:18It is impossible to start from scratch with Deshaun Watson because everybody else who made the decisions and Deshaun have
19:25been here for four years.
19:27This idea that every decision is made with purity and from an unbiased and neutral standpoint, that does not exist
19:35in the NFL.
19:36There's as much toxicity.
19:37There's as much dysfunction.
19:39There's as much things impacting decisions in the NFL as in every one of our workplaces where sometimes we scratch
19:46our heads and say,
19:46why the hell are they doing that?
19:48Right?
19:48We give this magical, mythical property because there's a billionaire atop the crest.
19:54Well, surely the billionaire's not an idiot.
19:57Oh, no, these billionaires, they didn't get here by accident.
20:00Oh, and the GMs, they're smart football guys.
20:02As if smart people can't be driven by ego or bad decisions or fall out from bad decisions.
20:10And listen, I like Todd Munkin a lot.
20:12But guys, with Todd Munkin, I'm like meatloaf.
20:16I'll do anything for Todd Munkin.
20:19But, oh, no, I won't do that.
20:21And that being.
20:22What is that?
20:23Yeah.
20:23Just being like, well, he really likes Deshaun, so I guess I should, too.
20:28No, this is the part where I feel bad for Munkin is because Munkin hasn't been in the building and
20:32around.
20:33He doesn't.
20:34He can only look at it and say, wow, Deshaun really does look good, doesn't he?
20:37And this is where the ego that we talk about, but the ego of these coaches, they come in and
20:41they think they can fix anybody.
20:42And he's going to look at himself and he's going to really think that he could do this.
20:46That he, wow, what a job I've done with Deshaun.
20:48Problem is that we've seen every single time Deshaun's had an offseason here, him look really good in the practice
20:54settings.
20:54So does he just never have a conversation with anyone that was here the previous four years?
20:58Not, well, here's the problem.
21:00Is that conversation, if you go to Jimmy Haslam and you go to Andrew Barry, is going to be what?
21:03They want Deshaun to win this job, I believe, because it's the only way they can potentially come back from
21:09what was the worst trade in NFL history.
21:12And so they're going to be like, yeah, yeah, Deshaun did look good.
21:14He looks good right now, too, doesn't he?
21:15And that's just going to continue to keep going and going.
21:18And I just, Deshaun's broke on the field.
21:22He's mentally broke.
21:23He doesn't have it.
21:24Like there's, he's great in practices.
21:26He doesn't have it on the field.
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