00:00So, reports out of camp are it's a little rough, a little rough today for the offenses.
00:05Seems like it's been rough.
00:06But I did see a nice video of Shador throwing to Jack Stoll.
00:09The Stoll one, as we call him.
00:10So we got that going for us.
00:11I saw Dylan Gabriel had a couple completions.
00:13Look at that.
00:14Good for him.
00:15That's what I've seen there.
00:16It's good for him.
00:16He's a tiny little guy.
00:18I think he's going to enjoy the UFL in six months.
00:20The dominating thought here seems to be, though, that the defense is looking much better than the offense.
00:25Yeah.
00:25So we'll see.
00:26We'll see.
00:28It's interesting.
00:28I, you know, we can debate how much to react to anything specifically.
00:33I'm not really going to react to the offense struggling because there are so many new pieces.
00:37If they were dominating in day one of camp or day two of camp, I'd probably think to myself, it's
00:43not a good sign for the defense.
00:44I think it's also interesting because so many of it is mixed up, right?
00:48And at least yesterday, and this is where maybe we need to cut to Sean a little bit of slack,
00:52the idea that, you know, Concepcion and Boston are going to be such a major part of this.
00:56And they weren't with the ones, they're with the twos yesterday.
00:58And it feels like even, even some of the, some of the offensive line combinations and some of those things,
01:03like it's not, they haven't put out, at least today, it seems like they're trending in that direction.
01:07But yesterday they didn't put out what will, at least I think, be the actual starting lineup.
01:12Yeah, I am in the, I am in team enjoy, enjoy the content mode of training camp.
01:18A week from now, all right, we'll see where we're at, right?
01:21But like right now, I'm just enjoying seeing the videos come out.
01:24I'm just in.
01:25I like seeing football.
01:26I, I, and they call me whatever you want because of that, but I do, I like seeing football and
01:29I like it being back.
01:30And I, but I also, I think, I think maybe this is where I, and I'm not going to say
01:34we differed because we didn't, but yesterday when you were driving the optimism bus and I'm over here, like, I
01:39think this might be as good as it gets guys.
01:41It comes with the idea that week 13, week 14, just traditionally past couple of years, hasn't been a lot
01:45of fun.
01:46And like, even if this isn't the most fun you've ever had, because it's, they might not be watching the
01:50best quarterbacks you've ever seen still has a chance to be a lot more fun than what 13 and 14
01:55could potentially be.
01:56Now, about halfway through the two o'clock hour, we played chase Daniel, his, uh, what he has heard and
02:06what, you know, he's hearing about Shador and kind of taking a leap forward in the off season.
02:13Uh, Mike Florio was on, uh, PFT and, uh, talked about, uh, how Todd Munkin has impacted Shador.
02:20Did I tell you my theory about what happened in Cleveland this off season?
02:23I think we were done by the time I finally figured out what Todd Munkin did.
02:27Remember when they first started the off season program and we were hearing that Deshaun Watson was looking good and
02:33Mary Kay Cabot, who's covered that team for three plus decades, looks like it's going to be Watson.
02:38Why don't we just name him the starter now and get him ready?
02:40Because by the end of the off season program, Shador was looking good.
02:44Yes.
02:45My theory is that after it started to trickle out, that Watson was looking good.
02:50And there was that whole Shiloh Sanders, Mary Kay Cabot ugliness.
02:54Yes.
02:54I think Munkin at some point said to Shador, man, you can't just show up on game day.
02:59Yeah.
02:59You can't be Brett Favre.
03:00Yeah.
03:00You got to do all the other stuff and you got to do it well.
03:04If you want to earn that job, you don't get to play.
03:06If you don't do all this other stuff and Deshaun's doing it.
03:09So you want to win that starting job.
03:11You got to do all this stuff and you got to be locked in every rep, every drill.
03:15I could see him saying that to Shador and maybe Shador's responded.
03:18All right.
03:18So I do think that there's a decent chance that the Browns used Deshaun and his profile
03:24as leverage to motivate Shador, or not motivate, but to kind of keep Shador kind of pushing
03:31and trying to push him to compete for this job, right?
03:34Everything else that Florio said felt like typical Florio conjecture to me.
03:40Okay.
03:40Yeah.
03:40So I wanted to ask you, Isaac, did you feel like you've seen Shador maybe just kind of
03:46go through the motions or be lackadaisical about it?
03:48And then all of a sudden, Munkin has been able to pierce through that.
03:52And then now we've seen a different version of Shador.
03:54I mean, listen, is there a chance that Todd Munkin, having his laser eyes on Shador Sanders
04:02and coming up with a plan to develop Shador Sanders is going to help take Shador to a different level?
04:08Yeah.
04:09Yeah.
04:09That's why you hired Todd Munkin.
04:11That's the great hope.
04:12Well, did you ever get the idea that he was doing something like he referenced Brett Favre
04:15and Sims and Florio continue to talk about how Brett Favre was one of the only quarterbacks
04:19they've ever seen that, hey, Tuesday film practice, not for me.
04:23You guys go ahead and do that.
04:24I'll sit this one out and then be awesome still, right?
04:26Like most great quarterbacks, you do the little details.
04:30And even in the practice setting, you're going hard.
04:34Like you're making sure that you're doing it right and you're not slacking off on it.
04:37But I just never got the impression that was Shador.
04:39Yeah, it's weird because there's been the kind of vague charges around Shador of, you know,
04:48does he want it enough, right?
04:50And then even when Kevin Stefanski took over, he and Kevin Stefanski were connected at the hip
04:55and people were talking about the impact of that.
04:57And so there's always been this, you know, does Shador do the work kind of thing?
05:02And I just, I quite frankly, nobody's put their name on it and nobody's, you know,
05:08nobody's actually just said it out loud.
05:10Hey, we don't think Shador does the work.
05:12It's always been a hint.
05:13And so quite frankly, that to me does nothing.
05:17Like if Kevin, when Kevin got fired, if we had had a strong report about the coaching staff
05:22felt like Shador didn't put the work in, yeah, I think that would have been something.
05:27We didn't really get anything.
05:28We don't have that.
05:28We never have that.
05:29All we ever have is how much work Shador does put in.
05:31But I almost wonder if it's how he presents himself to the media that is what's holding
05:36him back in some of these conversations.
05:38Because as hard as Shador Sanders works, when he talks to the media or when he talks in general,
05:42he is very, he's much more laid back.
05:44He's got more of like a Cali type vibe to himself.
05:46He's more of a laid back person.
05:47He's more of like a, you just don't get a sense of urgency attached to him.
05:51He's not, he's not Fernando Mendoza, right?
05:53Where you're like, oh geez, that guy's just, that's a, that's a robot right there.
05:56That guy's locked in 24 seven.
05:57No, he's laid back.
05:59He's chill.
05:59He's joking.
06:00He's having fun, right?
06:01And I was wondering if some of these reporters or people like Forio, they take some of those
06:04clips and they just, they translate that to his game for some reason.
06:08And, and on the field and really in these practice settings, he doesn't have a laissez
06:12fair nature to himself.
06:13He's not this laid back guy.
06:14He's incredibly intense.
06:16I think Shador continues to pay for the pre-draft narratives.
06:20And I think, I think, so I think what you're saying is correct, but I just think, you know,
06:25if Shador played statistically sound football, if he had made more business decisions down
06:30the stretch instead of just trying to make plays and win games in his seven, seven games
06:34last year, I think people would might maybe have been talking about Shador differently,
06:38but because we're all slaves to stats and because we're, you know, we need, we basically need
06:44good play to disprove whatever previous narratives were out there.
06:47I just think it's another way to reinforce the other narratives and for Florio to act like
06:52he knows what he's saying.
06:53I have no doubt that Todd Munkin was very upfront with Shador Sanders.
06:57I have no doubt that if Shador is not working to the commensurate level, that he won't be
07:03the starting quarterback.
07:04Well, and this kind of sounded more like he was trying to prop up Todd Munkin than he was
07:07trying to do anything else.
07:08I think that's also fair.
07:09He was just trying to be like, all right, I know Todd Munkin and Todd Munkin isn't going
07:12to let that slide.
07:13If anything, it's almost a quick shot at Kevin Stefanski, like a drive-by shot at the
07:17old coaching regime for letting, you know, Shador maybe not go as hard in practices.
07:21I just, if we had the evidence to suggest what Florio is saying, that he has taken it
07:26in this laissez-faire nature and he's doing a Brett Favre impression in these practices,
07:30maybe I'd believe it a little bit more, but I just don't, I haven't seen that.
07:33Well, but I think like, it's so funny, like anytime somebody has thrown out the stats
07:37from Shador last year, right?
07:40Which is, you know, worst quarterback, rookie quarterback, whatever they, nobody mentions
07:45kind of the full story, which is Shador stats did not look great, but this is a kid who
07:50didn't get snaps with the first team until he went onto the field in week 11, right?
07:56There's a kid who didn't even get second team snaps outside of like a week or two where
08:00Dylan Gabriel was hurt.
08:02So like he was not developed last year because of the quarterback log jam.
08:08He just didn't have the kind of reps you would need to then be thrown out into the field
08:12on week 11.
08:13Well, also, despite what people try to tell you that the offensive line was as best as
08:16we've ever seen it from weeks 11 to 18, it was an NFL high 51% pressure rate.
08:21That was the NFL's high, Nick.
08:23And leading up to that, it was 46%.
08:25Okay.
08:25Like he faced a ton of pressure on a wide receiver group that averaged 86 yards a game, which
08:30is the lowest that any team has averaged since the 2011 Jacksonville Jaguars.
08:34Like the, the amount of things he had to try to overcome there is astounding.
08:38But what's weird to me is that we do this dance with Deshaun of like, you know, new head
08:42coach, a guy that's built his system around a lot of different quarterbacks for Deshaun
08:46and Deshaun has failed at a, to stay healthy, has failed to play competent football, no matter
08:53what the system is, what's around him, what isn't around him.
08:56Right?
08:57So we're doing this huge legwork on Todd Munkin can fix Deshaun Watson, but we can't go,
09:03Hey, the guy who stats didn't look great, but did win three games, a guy who people around
09:07the NFL did actually like his talent.
09:09It was maybe the other stuff that got, or the perception of the other stuff that got
09:13him knocked down here, uh, with a full off season, maybe he can be competent.
09:17Well, what's the bigger jump here?
09:19I think it's the Deshaun thing.
09:20That's the greater leap of faith.
09:22Of course, the Deshaun thing is the greater leap.
09:24I almost wonder though, for you, setting it up a different way, instead of wanting to be
09:28like Shador busted his ass and worked his ass off and is now where he's at.
09:32If he's does start to play good football, right?
09:34Uh, instead of that being the storyline, I think he wants to, I think he just wants to
09:37give credit to Munkin there.
09:38Yeah.
09:38And I think I like, I do, which Munkin will deserve credit by the way.
09:42And yeah, a hundred percent.
09:42But it's funny you say that.
09:44Cause I do think people like to, to have their little honey hole with credit.
09:48Uh, if Shador plays well, Todd Munkin gets a lot of credit.
09:52So does Shador Sanders.
09:54Right.
09:54So does the guys around.
09:57I think he's setting it up almost to be like, uh, in the, the credit pie of sorts, it's
10:02going to be like, and this might end up being the narrative.
10:04If it does in fact go this way.
10:05Oh, the Munkin, I, I mean, the things he was able to do, nobody could have gotten Shador
10:10Sanders or that, but Todd Munkin.
10:12And it's just going to, it's going to be great branding for Munkin.
10:15Uh, but like, I think about how silly this is.
10:17He's getting credit for how, how Shador operates in, in training camp practices as if there's
10:22a great intensity attached to that with no, it's just, I think, I think not even I've
10:28heard just, I think two, one, six, four, seven, four, double Oh nine, two.
10:32So, uh, Mike Florio says, uh, Munkin has changed your door where you stand on that one.
10:38And we also have a Jeremy Fowler here from get up, or sorry, from good morning football
10:42today, uh, talking about, uh, how true the Browns quarterback competition is.
10:47This is the one to watch.
10:48This is the truest quarterback battle of the three because Deshaun Watson was the
10:52favorite in the spring.
10:53Sources have continued to tell me that Shador Sanders did close the gap somewhat by his
10:58decisiveness and his presence.
11:00He talked to people there with the Browns.
11:01He said, people are drawn to him.
11:03It's just, he's got a personality that brings people in a little bit.
11:06So Deshaun Watson is going to have to overcome that.
11:08So what's funny about this is this is where I have to do the thing that although I want
11:13Shador to win this job, it's incredibly early.
11:17It is early, but he did reference something that you're bigger on than I am, which is,
11:21can you win the locker room over in this stretch?
11:23Yeah.
11:23I don't think it was an accident that he pointed out that he's winning a lot of people over
11:27inside that locker room and he's doing it with his, I, how did he say charisma?
11:31How did he describe it?
11:32Uh, yeah, something like that.
11:33Something like that.
11:34Anyway, it was nice words.
11:35Uh, that, that is a point in your direction.
11:37I don't care as much about that as you do, but that's a point in your direction.
11:39I just think what's funny about it is, is it, I can see this thing setting up that if
11:45Deshaun continues to struggle in practice where he's just, again, Shador looks solid.
11:51And by the way, guys, solid is going to be good enough this year.
11:53If Shador is solid this season, it'll be the best quarterback play you've had outside of
11:59six games from Joe Flacco since Baker Mayfield's, uh, 2020 season.
12:04So we'll take solid this season.
12:06We'll, we'll go ahead and I'll sign up for solid right now.
12:09Everybody's trying to find the next Pat Mahomes in Cleveland.
12:11You got to get to solid before you get to Pat Mahomes.
12:13Oddly enough, even though we had some good Baker years in there, the Browns have not
12:16had a quarterback finish in the top 10 and passer rating since 1992.
12:19So we will take solid.
12:20And by the way, solid to me.
12:21That's just top 10.
12:22That's not even top five.
12:22It's top 10.
12:23I was going to go top 16 to me as solid.
12:26If you're the 16th best quarterback in the NFL, I can win with you.
12:29And so I do think like I need solid out of the quarterback spot, but I can see this,
12:34I can see this already starting to evolve here.
12:36And, and that maybe this goes into my line of thinking that Deshaun has always been the
12:41leverage for the Browns to lean on Shador.
12:44And I don't think it's, and I don't think it's what Flory was saying.
12:47I don't think it's a, oh, he doesn't work hard enough.
12:50I think any young quarterback that you want to give a chance to the perception has to be
12:57that he earns it.
12:58If you had given Shador the starting job in that locker room and with that coaching staff,
13:03it would have been the worst thing it could have done for him.
13:05He's got to earn it.
13:06Even if it's faux competition, like Deshaun Watson.
13:09I mean, I hope your narrative on this or your theory on this ends up being true.
13:13Cause ultimately I just want to see Shador Sanders play football, but I, I really get
13:16the impression that they're taking this.
13:17They're taking this very seriously.
13:19It's not just to push Shador.
13:20I, I did there's, there's a lot with Deshaun and there's a lot of reasons why we've already
13:24talked about for months on end that the Browns will be taking the Deshaun thing serious.
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