- 2 days ago
Shan, RJ, and Bobby broke down the latest draft buzz, including Peter Schrager’s admission that Caleb Downs likely won't fall to the Cowboys at 12. They discussed the growing belief that Downs is a top-10 lock, potential trade-up scenarios for a defensive playmaker, Mel Kiper’s latest mock featuring a move for Sonny Styles, and more.
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00:00Okay, so Peter Schrager got everyone hyped up last week when he did his one and only mock draft, well
00:07-connected, well-respected, and he put Caleb Downs of the Cowboys at 12.
00:12Yesterday, he went on All-City and said, you may as well rip that up.
00:19I would say me putting Caleb Downs going 12th overall, every piece of feedback I've gotten since I put that
00:24pick out there has been, there is no way on God's green earth that Caleb Downs is still available at
00:3012th overall.
00:31The chance that he is there, he is a dream for Christian Parker.
00:35He's everything I could imagine that the Cowboys would want as far as checking a box, but I had him
00:42out there the first time go around, and now I don't know if he's going to be available the next
00:46time we do this.
00:47So that was the first little jab to the gut, a little gut punch right there.
00:53Bobby, does that hurt you a little bit and make a ton of sense that people immediately hit up Peter
00:59and said Downs is not getting the 12th?
01:02Yeah, that's a little concerning that people would see, because whenever you say something, then you get instant feedback from
01:11people going like, you are so off base here.
01:14That's always a little concerning.
01:17I will say I'm surprised that if he, because he's a very connected guy, so I'm surprised that in the
01:23course of just conversations he may have had, he hadn't heard that feedback if it was going to be so
01:27stark once he then reported it.
01:30So that would be new, that would be the NFL changing if they went aggressively after Downs.
01:38Now that doesn't mean that Downs won't go ahead of Dallas, but it would just be, for him to go
01:42like way long gone by 12th, that would be a little surprising, I think.
01:45Yeah, I don't expect Downs to be there.
01:49That's me personally.
01:50So when he said it, it felt like a gift that he would drop down to 12th.
01:53I would not expect him to get down there.
01:57Steven Jones yesterday with KNC said that they did not have a defensive identity last year.
02:02They did not have a defensive culture and that edge that you need.
02:07He said they usually have 16 to 22 first rounders.
02:10Did not say they had that this year.
02:12Still finalizing the board.
02:13But normally in the range of 16 to 22 first rounders.
02:18He did a mock draft yesterday.
02:21He didn't make the selections, but it was a group mock draft that he had on his live stream with
02:26Rand Carthon, Dane Brugler, and Field Yates.
02:29Who did it?
02:30Schrager.
02:31And he said, I don't think Downs will be there now.
02:33Downs went seven in this mock to the commanders.
02:36Oh my.
02:37And Dallas ended up with Dylan Thienemann from Oregon at 12th.
02:40The white guy, choppy.
02:42Yeah, the white guy.
02:43Well, choppy's holding his head in his hands.
02:45I did that after the second clip from Schrager, and it caused me to go watch him.
02:5210-minute draft scout expert that I am.
02:55The name that Peter Schrager keeps hearing connected to Dallas.
03:01The name that I keep hearing, and this might be your social media clip.
03:05The name that I keep hearing, and I'm not sure if it's 12 or 20.
03:08I keep hearing Keldrick Falk and the Cowboys being tied together, and Clarence is laughing.
03:15I keep hearing that name.
03:17Now, that might be at 12, or that might be at 20.
03:20But this is people not in the Cowboys organization, but from others around the league.
03:23And you've got to understand, when I say that, all these scouts talk.
03:26So if there is a scout from the Cowboys that is hot on, or a GM, or a—it's usually not
03:32coming from that team.
03:33It's coming from someone who I worked with him for 10 years, and da-da-da, and that's who they
03:36like.
03:36And that's how this stuff comes about.
03:38Falk is a name that keeps popping up to the Cowboys, and it's probably more likely at 20 than 12.
03:43But if all those defensive players are off the board, maybe they reach and take him at 12.
03:48There is smoke.
03:49I can't say it's real, but there is definitely smoke to Falk at some place in the Cowboys' realm.
03:58Why would that cause a Metroplex meltdown for the most part, Bob?
04:02So there is just not a lot of fans of Keldrick Falk in the Dallas Cowboys draft community.
04:12They are—like, just go down the list of our Cowboys draft influencers.
04:18Brian Broaddus, not a huge fan.
04:21I don't think Nick Harris is a fan.
04:23I know Votch Lombardi isn't.
04:24John Owning is aggressively dug in that he does not like him.
04:28So there's a lot of resistance there.
04:31I totally agree with all of them.
04:33He's—
04:34He's just there.
04:35He's 6'7".
04:37He's a big guy.
04:37And it's just—he's there.
04:41It's not—
04:42You said that's who they're going to pick at 12.
04:43A lot of space to beat up, though.
04:45A couple weeks ago, when I was listing off him as, like, that would be the one that—
04:48And you said, who was that one?
04:49And you're like, well, then that would be who—that's who they're going to pick, probably.
04:52The disappointment.
04:53Yeah.
04:54But Falk, I think—
04:55Falk and McCoy.
04:57I don't—
04:58I'm sorry.
04:59Falk and Hood.
04:59I think that—
05:02I think they probably like Keldrick Falk a decent amount.
05:06He reminds a lot of people of Michael Williams from Georgia.
05:10Michael Williams was somebody they liked a lot last year.
05:13He went to San Fran?
05:13Yep.
05:14Michael Williams was somebody they liked a lot last year.
05:16I don't know if Falk has even shown enough to say that, like, he's got what Michael Williams put on
05:23tape.
05:24The impression I get from him, like, you just stand him there and hope that he stops the run because
05:29he's just so big.
05:30He's a space eater.
05:31Looking at him to come off an edge.
05:34I was looking at him to throw people out of the way because he has the size 6'7".
05:38I mean, he's a freaking monster.
05:40Like John Henderson.
05:41Well, I don't—he's not—
05:43From a size perspective.
05:44Well, not the weight.
05:46Nope.
05:47He's just always got to tie it back to a volunteer.
05:48Yeah.
05:49John Henderson was playing inside, but he was—
05:52He's just lumbering out there.
05:54He wouldn't—let's say they did draft him.
05:56I don't think he'd be an edge for them.
05:58Like, I think he'd be—he'd play next to Kenny Clark and Quinton Williams.
06:02He'd be the—he'd be that edge setter.
06:04Don't need more of that.
06:04He'd be that edge setter in the three-down lineman look.
06:07Yeah.
06:08Ugh.
06:09It's—no, he could still be good, but there's questions about how hard he plays.
06:12I would imagine if they were to take him, that would be more like maybe they trade back from 20
06:17a little bit,
06:17and they've already addressed defensive back, and they just—like, if they do that 9 for 29, 12 for 20 swap
06:24we've talked about with Kansas City, if he's there at 29, maybe they then go,
06:28Eh, you know what?
06:29This is somebody who can compliment what we've already done with the secondary.
06:32Taking somebody at 12—at 29 or 20 is a lot different than 12.
06:36I don't believe they would take him at 12.
06:38Yeah, that's—
06:39Which—and Schrager, to be fair, did not—said he did not know which—where it would be.
06:43He said, I don't know if that's 12 or 20, I just know that I've heard connection to them.
06:47A lot of commentary on the Franklin Franklin injury returns fan text.
06:51For the 6-4-1, he is Tank Lawrence, good player, but he would be hated for lack of sacks.
06:56From the 2-1-4, David Irving 2.0.
06:59From the 2-1-4, Taco 2.0.
07:01For the 8-1-7, the Jones boys can go falk themselves.
07:04Oh!
07:05Wow, that's a good one.
07:06He has zero pass rushability.
07:08Yeah.
07:09He'll be a bust calling it now.
07:11If people are still writing articles that Downs is making it to 12, it's just clickbait.
07:15Welcome to today's media.
07:16For the 9-7-9, hopefully the Cowboys are Coolio fans, because you've got to go up to get Downs.
07:21Like that one.
07:21But I can assuredly tell you that Downs does not make it past the Bengals at 10.
07:27Okay.
07:28Well, we're getting some mock drafts also saying that.
07:30You said Schrager yesterday had the Cowboys getting Thienemann?
07:33Yeah.
07:34It was like a group thing.
07:36And so it wasn't like just Schrager's own projection, but it ended up being with Dane,
07:40Rand Carth on the old Titans, GM, and VLD8s, they put Thienemann 12th.
07:44Harry is talking about him on All-City.
07:47Best player on the field right now, and he's a Scud missile, and he's all over the place,
07:50and he ran a 4-3-40, and we're talking about Dylan Thielman, the safety out of Oregon.
07:55I think if you're looking at that 12th spot, the guys that are going to be available,
08:00I think the way it's shaken out, are wide receiver and offensive line.
08:03I don't think the Cowboys are going either one of those spots.
08:06So now you're stretching maybe, and you're saying, all right, well,
08:09we don't love the safety compared to maybe value-wise, but at 12 and 20,
08:16like let's get good defensive players.
08:17So I look at him, I look at the kid McNeil Warren out of Toledo.
08:22I look at Gerard McCoy, who did not play all of last year and has a serious knee injury.
08:29Is he ready to come back and make an impact?
08:32I look at guys like that at 12, and it's if Delaney's not there,
08:38and Downs isn't there, and Bain's not there, you might have to settle at 12,
08:43and then you get to training camp and you say, you know what, we acted like we were settling
08:47or reaching at 12, but we have a really good player at that position right now.
08:50Let's go to work.
08:53Man, it's like, to me, I'd rather take less return on a trade back.
09:01If that pick is worth 1,000 points, I'd rather take 700 points, 800 points to trade back
09:07than take a guy that I think maybe I'm settling on.
09:10I don't know.
09:10Maybe they don't view it that way.
09:11Maybe when push comes to shove, I wouldn't view it that way either.
09:15Yeah, I mean, a lot of people really like Thienemann and have him way up high.
09:21I mean, we heard Daniel Jeremiah say there will be teams that have Thienemann above Downs.
09:25So, I mean, he's not a bad player.
09:27He's just, I think for them, they would feel like, even if they liked him
09:32and they enjoyed having him in the defense, I think for them, they would also feel like,
09:36this isn't really what we wanted out of this pick.
09:40Mock drafts are exploding from everyone today.
09:44Todd McShay, Dane Brugler went seven rounds,
09:47but the guy who we've had to pay close attention to and has nailed it recently is Mel Kuyper Jr.
09:54Say what you want about him, right?
09:56He's done a nice job.
09:57And this is his final mock, and it's a two-rounder.
10:02So let's get to it commercial-free in the expressway here on Sean and RJ.
10:06Path to the draft is brought to you by Pluckers for the coverage on Thursday.
10:12Mendoza, one to the Raiders.
10:14David Bailey, two to the Jets.
10:17A lot of whispers as of late that David Bailey is going to be the second player taken.
10:23Arvel Reese to Arizona.
10:25Jeremiah Love to the Titans at four.
10:28And remember what Jordan Schultz said yesterday,
10:32and I was trying to figure out what agent he was talking to to stir this up.
10:37And I was like, who is the agent for Sonny Stiles?
10:39I actually didn't see any representation as of the internet.
10:43Who's Caleb Downs' agent?
10:45And I'm like, who is Schultz tight with that could stir up stuff around here?
10:53Did you find Sonny Stiles, or did you find Caleb Downs' agent?
10:56No.
10:56Sonny Stiles' agent is Brian McLaughlin and Mike McCartney.
11:01Okay.
11:02And then Caleb Downs is Ryan Tolner from Rep1 Sports.
11:07Okay.
11:08So I don't know who Jordan Schultz is tight with, but at number five, Jordan Schultz said,
11:13the Cowboys may be trying to get past the Giants to take a player in New York once.
11:19We've all been thinking that's Stiles.
11:21Well, here's freaking Mel Kuyper giving the New York Giants Caleb Downs at five.
11:28If things fall this way, the Giants will have a tough call to make on three Ohio State prospects.
11:34And I think the Giants the other day were talking about watching all this Ohio State film.
11:38T. Rainey sent me that.
11:39I could see Carnell Tate as the number two opposite of neighbors.
11:42I could see Stiles, quarterback in the defense.
11:45But I keep coming back to what Downs could do from the back end next to Javon Holland.
11:50His incredible instincts would pop in this defense.
11:53Downs would be the first safety taken in the top five since Eric Berry went to the Chiefs in 2010.
12:00And he would be worth it.
12:02Downs to the Giants of five.
12:05Have not seen much of that.
12:06Mel Kuyper dropping it.
12:09It's odd because Harbaugh's come in there and he's running the show now, right?
12:14Like he's in charge, full autonomy.
12:17Look at Ravens.
12:18Look at Ravens, but also because of that, there's been so much certainty from everybody.
12:25It seems like that, ah, Stiles at five.
12:27Stiles, Stiles, Stiles.
12:29The sense that I get from people in New York is like they don't have a good grasp on what
12:34the Giants want to do.
12:35And so it's odd that we all do kind of center around it.
12:39Like the Giants are a lot.
12:41Yeah, Giants are one that I don't.
12:43And Dexter Lawrence, by the way, they've agreed to talk the teams to trade him.
12:47So keep that in mind.
12:48Yeah, Giants, I don't know that that's a team like I feel comfortable like knowing, ah, they're going to do
12:54this.
12:54Whether it be Downs or Stiles or whatever.
12:56Why would I feel comfortable about anything Arizona, Tennessee, or the Giants do?
13:01Now, the Giants are probably, they're in a better off position than the other two.
13:06But the other two have needs everywhere.
13:07So why am I like, all right, definitely Jeremiah Love to Tennessee or definitely this to Arizona.
13:13My Vikings guy did tell me that the Giants love both, but they like Downs more.
13:18Than?
13:19Stiles.
13:20They like Downs more than Stiles?
13:22Yeah, that's my Vikings guy.
13:24So, do you know what?
13:25Let me put this on the clock.
13:28Draft day is happening.
13:30The Cowboys find out the Giants are going to take Downs of five.
13:35Are you willing to move up to four?
13:38That's probably, that's 12 and 20 flat for four probably.
13:44I would.
13:45You would?
13:46I would.
13:47I don't know if they would, but I would do that.
13:49Trading up to four, so you give up what?
13:5212 and 20.
13:53And that would get you there?
13:54Mm-hmm.
13:55Really?
13:56Yep.
13:5712 and 20 is like 20, 50 on the Mike McCoy trade chart.
14:01And then it's like that pick is worth 1,800, I think.
14:05So let's just put Schultz's scenario in play.
14:07That the Cowboys would want to jump the Giants for Caleb Downs.
14:13That's a lot.
14:14That's a big jump.
14:16If, if, uh, okay.
14:17So if they think, if, if Downs is a 10 out of 10, what do they think Thienemann is?
14:24Probably, and this I don't know.
14:26It's more just kind of speculation based on how they've talked about other things.
14:28I would imagine Thienemann's probably closer to like a seven and a half, seven, seven and
14:33a half.
14:34And the likelihood he's there at 20?
14:3720?
14:38Uh, Dicey.
14:39Dicey, huh?
14:39For sure there at 12.
14:40Dicey at 20.
14:42Yeah, because I mean, if you were told me I could get Caleb Downs or I'd get Thienemann
14:47and Hood.
14:50Oof.
14:51So you don't end up getting any linebacker, nothing.
14:55I don't know.
14:55See, that's, I mean, that's the big problem that they run into here.
14:58I mean, you're not getting a linebacker in the first two rounds anyway.
15:01As things stand right now.
15:03Definitely not the second.
15:03Right, unless, I mean.
15:04Unless Styles drops.
15:05Yeah, I mean, if you were to go up to four, you could take Styles there.
15:07Yeah, you could go up.
15:08Yeah, and so like we're talking about like going up and taking downs, like maybe they
15:11go up there and they do take Styles.
15:13I mean, it's.
15:13So, so this is, I can hear Brian Broadus being channeled through Field Yates here.
15:18When we're talking about getting two players or getting what they think is an absolute
15:23sure thing with a gamble of a move to go up that high, Field Yates says, don't screw
15:28around.
15:29This draft, I've found an overwhelming majority of people that have said, Field, in a
15:34different year, I might tell you otherwise.
15:35This is the draft where you don't horse around with it.
15:37Take the best players because this just isn't a super deep class with blue chip prospects.
15:42Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs, Jeremiah Love are all going to go extremely high.
15:48Did you hear that?
15:49It's don't screw around.
15:51Get your player because of the fall off of the uncertainty.
15:54So Brian Broadus, Field Yates would say, just go and get downs, even at four.
16:00Where me and Choppy are like, needs, got a lot, a lot of chairs to fill, a lot of needs.
16:05And, you know, not the replacement cost, but the opportunity cost of getting a linebacker
16:11that can service your needs in the third round, as opposed to getting rid of all your first
16:16round capital to go up and get somebody who still is going to be, there still is a risk.
16:22There still is a chance.
16:24It's not 100% Styles is going to be a good player.
16:26Of course, yeah.
16:27I had a, so like, and this is Mel Kuyper's mock draft that we're talking about, having
16:30the Cowboys, or having the Giants take downs at six, or five, and then the Cowboys going
16:34to six.
16:36I, here's the thing.
16:37We don't know with certainty what the Giants are going to do, right?
16:39Like, we're all just kind of speculating.
16:41Everybody generally has said, Titans probably going Love, or maybe Styles.
16:47Everybody pretty much has now settled in on, Bailey's going to the Jets.
16:51It's unsettling to me that that's what the group is saying, but then Rich Cimini, the
16:56reporter in New York, has said, Reese, and it continues to say Reese, will not move off
17:01of that.
17:02Or the Jets.
17:03Paul Kowarski, who's one of the bigger Titans reporters out there, has recently put multiple
17:09times Reuben Bain at number four to the Titans.
17:11Oh!
17:12And nobody has said, so when you start seeing stuff like that, and it's like, okay, I know
17:15what the group said, but does that say that we really have no clue what's going to happen
17:19in the top ten, and all these assumptions we've made may be off?
17:21Mel Kuyper Jr. has the Dallas Cowboys making their move at six.
17:26He writes, let's have some fun here.
17:27Dallas and Cleveland each have two first round picks coming in the draft, which gives those front
17:32officers some ability to maneuver.
17:34With an elite prospect still on the board, I have Jerry calling up Andrew Barry to make
17:39something happen.
17:39In this scenario, Dallas would trade 12-20 to Cleveland for 6-39.
17:46That means the Browns suddenly have three first round picks, and it means the Cowboys add
17:52Sonny Stiles, linebacker, Ohio State.
17:56Dallas was not stopping anyone last year, allowed 6.1 yards per play, second worst in the league,
18:01allowed 30 per game, worst in the NFL, far and away the league's least effective defense
18:05by EPA.
18:05We've all wondered whether the Cowboys would use both their first on defense this month.
18:10This trade up the board might have a greater impact, even if it means sacrificing one of
18:14those day one selections.
18:16Stiles is my overall number four prospect.
18:18Explosive, rangy, and productive.
18:21So how about that?
18:22The Cowboys making a move to six for Sonny Stiles.
18:25Which I don't think anybody would...
18:27Swing 39.
18:29And that's the thing, I don't think anybody would be that frustrated by a move up, even
18:33those who don't want to trade up, knowing that if you...
18:35All right, well then that 20, you still get to just move down some spots and have a pick
18:38in the second round.
18:39Yep.
18:39And so as long as you've got that, then that'll calm some people down, I think.
18:42Yeah, it'll calm me down.
18:44Carnell Tate to the Commanders at seven.
18:47Reuben Bain to the Saints at eight.
18:50Jordan Tyson, Bobby's favorite wide out to the Chiefs.
18:54Boy, that's starting to chatter up a lot.
18:57Schrager put Tyson in there.
18:58A bunch of the Chiefs reporters lately have been putting Tyson at nine.
19:01Tyson to Kansas City.
19:02Mm-hmm.
19:03Delane to Cincy at ten.
19:06Maui-Waga?
19:07Maui-Laga?
19:08Maui-Noah.
19:08Maui-Noah.
19:09Good gosh, there's no N in that.
19:11Done.
19:11Maui-Noah to Miami at 11 from Miami.
19:16The Browns, because of the Cowboys' trade down, then take Caden Proctor, Bama tackle.
19:23Makai Lemon to the Rams at 13.
19:25Spencer Fano to the Ravens.
19:27Sadiq, tight end to Tampa.
19:29Omar Cooper, who the Cowboys had him for a visit, to the Jets at 16.
19:33Monroe Freeling to the Lions.
19:36Thienemann to the Vikings.
19:37McNeil Warren, another safety to Carolina.
19:40Denzel Boston, Cleveland 20.
19:43We'll skip down, skip down.
19:44Baker, Ioani.
19:45No, I'm going to skip.
19:47We're running out of time here.
19:48Uh, Jermon McCoy, Cleveland 24.
19:52And then, because Kuyper did a two-round mock, he has the Cowboys at number 39 taking a defensive end.
20:00T.J. Parker from Clemson, the final pick involved in my proposed Cleveland deal.
20:07I love Parker's speed to power, how he plays to the whistle.
20:10His sack count dipped from 11 to 5 last year, but he knows how to cause problems for opponent quarterbacks.
20:16With 114 pressures over the past three seasons, Cowboys traded for Rashawn Gary.
20:20They can continue cleaning up the pass rush with this promising prospect.
20:24T.J. Parker, what's his deal?
20:27Yeah, I mean, he's somebody, like, if you were to put T.J. Parker on the Cowboys in the second
20:31round, like, that's not bad value.
20:33I think Parker's a guy who a lot of people think could go in the first, and so it's fine.
20:38He's somebody who's just, that to me is just like, you're talking about steady edge rusher.
20:42Now, the production, like his junior season when he had 11 sacks or whatever, a lot of people think that's
20:48not quite him.
20:49Like, that's a little juiced up.
20:51That's not quite going to be his production.
20:52He would, in all likelihood, I think that's somebody who, when we talk about Brandon Graham or somebody like that,
20:58I think that could very well be T.J. Parker's career.
21:00Like, he's seven sacks a season or something and just kind of a steady, solid player.
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