00:00Peter Schrager getting us excited from ESPN.
00:03He nailed Tyler Booker last year when a lot of Cowboy fans are like, huh?
00:08The pick.
00:09Just we've got to be clear with insiders these days.
00:11You're talking about he nailed the pick.
00:13That's right.
00:14I was about to jump you, but it was a good joke.
00:16Ended up being a good Diana Rossini joke.
00:19While Peter Schrager mocked Caleb Downs to the Cowboys at 12,
00:24R.J. Ochoa did a phenomenal job of tracking down Peter Schrager
00:30to get him to talk about the mock.
00:33So last year when I had Booker going in the first round,
00:37I caused a lot of problems with Cowboys fans saying there is no way.
00:40They're certainly not taking offensive line, and then they took offensive line
00:43because I knew that they loved him.
00:45Downs, I look at their new defensive coordinator,
00:49and I look at what his specialty is.
00:52It's defensive backs, and I'm telling you, I know, Christian,
00:56he is a 34-year-old who is all about creativity, high energy, and smarts.
01:02Caleb Downs, Matt Patricia told me when he joins whatever team he joins,
01:07he will immediately be the smartest player on that defense
01:09and the face of the franchise.
01:11Oh, that's a pretty good recommendation.
01:12I think that's fairly nice.
01:15No one thought he could possibly slip out of the top 10.
01:18Again, I look at this draft, and I look at the positions and the values
01:22and what these teams need.
01:24Safety has almost been a luxury for a lot of these teams as they view the draft,
01:28and I point to Kyle Hamilton, supposed to be a top 10 pick, goes 14.
01:33Derwin James, supposed to be a top 10 pick, goes 18.
01:36You look at any mock draft last year, Nick Emanwari was going in the first round.
01:40He falls to the second round.
01:41So by the trends, I don't necessarily think a team is going to take a safety
01:47in the top 10 above an elite corner, above an elite pass rusher,
01:54above a wide receiver, if they have needs at those positions.
01:57The Cowboys have defensive back needs.
02:01I think it is a perfect fit, and I think the match between new defensive coordinator
02:05and the way that he speaks, and I've known him for years,
02:08the way that he preaches versatility and the ability to play multiple spots
02:14along that defensive backfield if needed, that's everything Caleb Downs has been,
02:18who we've been watching since he was at Alabama
02:21and been hearing about for, it feels like, a decade.
02:23So to me, Caleb Downs is the perfect fit, and I think he might be there at 12.
02:29I have my first official heartbreak.
02:32This is it.
02:33You don't like Caleb Downs?
02:34This will be the one?
02:34This will be the one when I'm sitting there at Pluckers in Mesquite.
02:38Excuse me.
02:39Maybe with Jake Remo.
02:41We'll see.
02:42Well.
02:43I'm seeing the entire event while I sit back and eat and drink.
02:47When Caleb Downs, if and when Caleb Downs goes, this will be my first official heartbreak.
02:53I'm not expecting Styles to even get down there.
02:56Bain, you know, the arm size has me going back and forth.
03:00Yes, I'd be happy with a corner, but except for Jamal McCoy, apparently,
03:06who the Cowboys will not be taking, according to our insiders.
03:10But if and when Caleb Downs goes, I will feel the air let out of my body.
03:15That is not just the gas from the mango habanero.
03:19Mango habanero is good stuff.
03:20It is fantastic.
03:22Would you make what Schrager said?
03:23Because you were trying to figure out whether this was just common sense or insight.
03:29So, I don't, I mean, you guys don't do, like, the first round mock drafts.
03:34Like, I know you guys don't make them or anything like that.
03:37So, I don't know if you guys have ever experienced anything like this sort of phenomenon,
03:42which is, like, you know a team likes somebody, right?
03:45Like, maybe you go, like, oh, I've heard at 14 this team likes somebody.
03:49And so, maybe you unconsciously, as you're doing your mock draft, are setting it up
03:54so that it lines up with them and being able to put them there.
03:58And so, I wondered.
04:00I was like, okay, let me listen to this and listen to Peter Schrager talk about it.
04:04And if he's going to lay out for me a strong case as to why Caleb Downs would even be
04:09there,
04:09or is he just going to lay out the case to me of why the Cowboys like Caleb Downs?
04:13And that felt a little more like why the Cowboys like him and then why he would fit.
04:17And I do think the Cowboys love him.
04:19If Caleb Downs is there, I think that stops.
04:20I think he stops at 12.
04:22But the –
04:23You know, my question about the trends is why isn't the league going to flip it right now
04:28when they waited too long on Kyle Hamilton, Eamon Worry, everyone is absolutely loving,
04:34and whatever else he referenced.
04:36Yeah, this would be the time to do it.
04:38So, I think the same sort of thing.
04:40Like, that's – it strikes me that I don't know that you can always go off by history
04:44because people learn, but he's right.
04:46Typically, the history is that those guys are going to slide a little bit
04:51because teams just prioritize other positions above it.
04:55But listening to him talk about that, that sounded more like this is my case for Caleb Downs
04:59going to the Cowboys, why they like him, and more about here's why it could happen
05:03if you look at history rather than him saying, I know these teams like these guys,
05:07and these guys, they're going to be prioritized above them.
05:09But I did, now that you've got the heartbreak, I did go run down the past place for you.
05:14Well done.
05:15Did you feel better about the past place?
05:17I did.
05:18He's just so damn smooth.
05:20Like, he's very smooth and fluid.
05:23He looks like he can run full speed, change direction without kind of breaking the stride.
05:28He's – in all those plays, you can see it.
05:31He really – that's one of those times where – I feel like when you watch Caleb Downs,
05:34when you watch a highlight of his, you see what people always say,
05:37but, like, he sees it faster than everybody.
05:39You literally, I think, see when we're watching those plays of he's seeing it quicker than everybody else is.
05:43Yes, and he's moving towards it faster than everybody else is still in their motions,
05:48and he's already breaking on the ball or he's doing something.
05:50So, Wolchuk texted the other day during the segment, and when we were talking,
05:55when I was like, okay, what about the past coverage skills?
05:57He goes, he locked up Brock Bowers.
05:59Don't worry about that.
06:01And I was like, what?
06:02He locked up Brock Bowers?
06:03I do have to admit, when I was watching the video highlights at BobbyBeltTX on Twitter,
06:09don't have too many people follow him because he's going to surpass me soon.
06:12I'll never hear the end of it.
06:13I'm getting close, baby.
06:14His size does kind of make it look like someone defending a seven-footer in the paint.
06:21So, if he's asked to cover a decent amount of tight ends, I am worried just about a simple post
06:26-entry pass.
06:27Yeah, he's short arms.
06:28He's under 31 inches on his arms.
06:29So, you're talking about 30-some-odd-inch arms.
06:32He's 5'11 1⁄2", I think.
06:35But, I mean, he's – we have seen – so, when we were talking about before,
06:39like, we've never seen a guy with this body type do this.
06:41We've never seen a guy with this body type do this.
06:43We have seen guys with Downs' body type succeed at safety.
06:46Yeah, and even smaller in Buda.
06:48Yeah, and so I'm not as worried about that, but I know that's an NFL concern.
06:53People are concerned about his body holding up playing against bigger NFL players
06:56because he's just – he's smaller.
06:58And who else did you say after – I told you what Zach said about defending Bowers,
07:02who's all-world, who else he defended?
07:04Oh, yeah, he shut down Tyler Warren, too, the Penn State safety.
07:09Penn State tight end.
07:10No, the Penn State tight end, yeah, he's the safety.
07:11No, but he shut down Tyler Warren, the Penn State tight end.
07:14He's been – he's had – now, he's not – it's his reps.
07:17His reps go well.
07:18The problem – or not the problem.
07:19They alternate their safeties at Ohio State, and he's coming down to play the box,
07:23and then other times he's playing deep, other times he's playing coverage.
07:25But he's gotten enough reps on tape where you look at it and go like,
07:28yeah, that's probably projectable.
07:30All right, should we get to the prospect upside, or who is the most polarizing?
07:35Which one do you think makes the most sense right now, polarizing or the upside?
07:41I've got the upside if you want to do the polarizing, whichever one you want to do.
07:43I can do it.
07:44You want me to?
07:44Go ahead.
07:44All right, the most polarizing players in this draft.
07:48This is from Jeremy Fowler.
07:51Guy.
07:51Ty Simpson is one of them.
07:54Makes total sense.
07:55Makes a lot of sense because I've seen him – I've seen some people say he can be late first
07:59round,
08:00he can be overdrafted mid-first round, he can be the third quarterback taken.
08:04Boy, Broadus, Vachla Marty, I think Nick, a lot of them do not like him.
08:11Really?
08:12At all.
08:13Why?
08:13Like, kind of to a surprising degree.
08:15I have Simpson in the second.
08:16I think he's okay.
08:17Like, I don't – he's not anybody who I think when I watch him, I'm like, oh my gosh, what
08:22a mess.
08:23I obviously don't think he's like a no-doubt-about-it first-round quarterback.
08:27Yeah.
08:27But they just are not fans of his.
08:30They don't see it.
08:31And so, I mean, they all feel like – it seems to me like when they talk about him,
08:35they think about him more like third, fourth round.
08:37Well, Broadus says no, then that means yes.
08:40Yeah, no meaning yes.
08:41Simpson, they say, is polarizing due to circumstances more than ability.
08:44Lack of starts is the primary concern.
08:46He only started one year in an era when many quarterback prospects have two to four years
08:50of production.
08:51And the fall-off at the end of the season.
08:53The play did decline.
08:54It did decline.
08:55That's what Alabama does at the end of the season.
08:57One veteran scout called him a mix of Mac Jones and Jared Goff.
09:03But he runs better.
09:06Runs better than Jared Goff, for sure.
09:09Probably just talking about as a passer.
09:11Made a lot of NFL throws.
09:12Some guys were running a glorified high school offensive college, but he was throwing deep
09:15in-breaking – in-breakers, corners, deep outs, seam scrolls.
09:19That's what stood out early in the season.
09:21Like, I remember we were at your house watching the first Bama game, and even though they lost.
09:26Yeah, he himself, though, like, there were a couple different times where it's like,
09:30oh, he can sling it.
09:32Next one, Reuben Bain.
09:34He said he'd not be on this list if his arms were a few, which is longer, powerful, productive,
09:38bendy up the edge, all-American, 15-and-a-half tackles for a loss.
09:41By all accounts, he loves the game, but the arm length is still an issue no matter how much
09:45teams wish that it wasn't.
09:47That's the funny thing.
09:48You're talking about downs and his size.
09:50Think about that.
09:51Those arms you see on downs in those plays, those are Bain's arms.
09:54Those are the same length.
09:54I can't wait to see the case study on this, to figure out who's right and who's wrong
09:59about this arm debate.
10:01I can't wait.
10:02Next one, Jermon McCoy.
10:04On this list, because he didn't play in 25 due to an ACL tear, looked every bit the part
10:09of a high draft pick at the pro day, you know, 4-3-7-40.
10:13Evaluators must be comfortable with the tape in 24 to draft him.
10:17An AFC exec called that tape, quote, good, but I didn't see a wow player.
10:22So if you have concerns about lower extremity durability, then you would have a tough time
10:27taking it.
10:28Wait a second.
10:28Who said that the 2024 tape wasn't wow?
10:32An AFC exec.
10:34Wow.
10:34They didn't like it.
10:34I assume it's the Jets.
10:36There is a...
10:38Man, I haven't heard...
10:39You said this last night in the email.
10:41I haven't heard anyone say that about his 2024 film.
10:44I think Dane is one who has said he likes Mansoor Delane's tape better than McCoy's
10:5024.
10:51So even without the injury concern, I think Dane has said he liked Delane better.
10:54So I mean, there are a couple people who do like Delane better, but it's not common.
10:58Next one from Jerry Fowler's most polarizing players.
11:01Micah Morris.
11:02Guard Georgia.
11:03I know nothing about him.
11:05I don't even know anything about him at all.
11:07Caden Proctor.
11:08Tackle Bama.
11:09Proctor's got a lot of split opinion on him.
11:12There's a lot of people who just...
11:14Again, it's one of those things that when you watch him, I think it's just...
11:17It's not even like an issue of, well, because there's this or there's that.
11:20It's like when people watch him, there's just split opinion on what his projectability is.
11:24Like, I know...
11:25I think he's a decent player.
11:28I think, for instance, on the draft, I think it's Vach who just does not like him at all.
11:32And Vach is a big trench guy.
11:34One NFL exec said he should be a top five pick.
11:36He'd be so good if he wants to be.
11:39The scouts say his weight ballooned to 390 pounds.
11:43He's a big boy.
11:44He's Aaron Gibson.
11:45Makai Lemon.
11:46Wide out USC.
11:48Yeah.
11:49After the combine.
11:50Well, not just that.
11:51I mean, some people would just wonder about his limitations.
11:54Like, what he's able to really do on the outside all the time.
11:58They're saying that is measurables and pre-draft raise...
12:02Process raise questions.
12:03We don't know what we're getting.
12:05Avion Terrell.
12:06Cornerback Clemson.
12:08Why?
12:09Becoming a productive corner in the NFL requires speed.
12:12And his 40 time calls that into question.
12:14Yeah.
12:14So, this 40 time was awful.
12:17He's hurt, though.
12:19Like, I don't know how...
12:20I don't understand why we're holding him to a 4-6-something time when he clearly doesn't
12:24look like that on tape.
12:25A couple others.
12:26Lee Hunter, defensive tackle at Texas Tech.
12:28Had a banner season on his way to the All-American honors at nose tackle.
12:33But what some scouts saw in the preseason still sticks with him a bit.
12:37350 pounds and wasn't doing much.
12:39I think there are some teams that have him red flagged for medicals, too.
12:43Cassius Howell, Edge, Texas A&M, arm length is shorter than Baines.
12:46Then you go further down, Monroe Freeland and Drew Aller.
12:50And the others in consideration.
12:52Mesidor, obviously, by the age, they didn't say why on these.
12:54But they also did say Keldrick Falk.
12:56Yeah.
12:57And Caleb Downs.
12:58And I assume the Downs thing is just height?
13:01Size overall?
13:02Probably.
13:03Maybe if somebody's concerned about the knee or some of the other things.
13:06But Falk is, yeah, because he doesn't really rush the passer.
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