- 16 hours ago
Mike Mayock joined Shan, RJ, Bobby, and Wolchuk to preview the upcoming NFL Draft. Mayock discussed Dallas’ options at picks 12 and 20, weighed positional value versus taking the best player available, shared his thoughts on top prospects like Caleb Downs and Sonny Styles, and more.
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00:00And he ended up being our number one most viewed interview at the Super Bowl, so we had to get
00:06him on again.
00:07Good job, R.J. Choppy.
00:08He is Mike Mayock to preview the NFL Draft round one tomorrow right here on your official home of America's
00:15team.
00:15Good morning, Mike. How are you? Thanks for joining us.
00:18My pleasure. How are you guys doing?
00:20Doing pretty well.
00:21So I've been watching some of your recent stuff over at Sumer Sports and all the other interviews,
00:25and I know that a lot of times people are like, oh, this means you don't like the player?
00:30We know that's not the case.
00:31You don't have Caleb Downs as a top ten prospect on your board?
00:39I love the player, okay?
00:41And I think you're probably understanding what I'm trying to say, which is I think in any draft, he's a
00:49first-round pick.
00:50You appreciate the player.
00:51He's going to play for the next seven to ten years at a high level in the NFL.
00:55Love everything about him.
00:57However, when you're talking about a top ten pick in any draft, you're looking for a difference maker.
01:03You're looking for a guy that on Monday morning the other team is forced to game plan.
01:08And I think he's going to be a really good player, and I think he's going to be the glue
01:13for a defense,
01:15and he's going to hold it together and be able to do a lot of things.
01:18But I'm not sure if he's picking the ball off seven times a year and forcing four fumbles
01:22and doing the kind of things that people would consider an elite difference maker.
01:28And I think that's what you need to be in the top ten.
01:30Mike, how close do you have the other safeties to Downs?
01:36I think that the Tiananmen from Oregon is kind of mid to late, and the same thing with McCoy Warren,
01:46the Toledo kid.
01:48I think he's a little bit later.
01:51But I think we average less than one safety a year in the first round over the last five years.
01:57Less than one.
01:58And this year I think we're going to get three.
02:01How are you feeling about the positional value of Sonny Stiles and where he's going to go?
02:06Because, right, safety is in that conversation with linebacker and running back,
02:11and it feels like running back has risen above them in terms of acceptance of being drafted that high.
02:18So how are you feeling about Stiles, the player, and his positional value?
02:22Well, I think you hit on it, which is literally this year the four least valued positions in the league
02:31have players that could be top ten type players.
02:34I mean, they're running back with love.
02:36Stiles, to me, might end up being the second or third best player out of this draft.
02:41I love Sonny Stiles, the off-the-ball linebacker.
02:44You've got the guard from Penn State, Yolani, who is the closest thing I've seen to Quentin Nelson,
02:50and he went Quentin Nelson when I forget, six or eight to Indy.
02:54And then the running back, guard, safety, and off-the-ball linebacker.
03:02So there are four.
03:03Those four guys, Downs, Stiles, and the offensive guy.
03:08I mean, in this draft, in this particular draft, all of them are elite players.
03:13And where I fall is, for instance, the running back.
03:16I mean, if you think Jeremiah Love is going to do the same things in the NFL that Jameer Gibbs
03:23or B. John Robinson does,
03:25you take him.
03:25Forget about all the other conversations.
03:28He's that good.
03:29If you believe that, he can change your offense.
03:32So if a player is an elite player at that position, I don't really care that it's not one of
03:38the valued positions in the NFL.
03:40Mike Mayock, joining us here at 105 through the fan.
03:42Does it matter where you are as an organization in terms of, like, your window of drafting a player from
03:50one of these non-premium positions?
03:51Like, if you're close to winning now and you just happen to be up there, take him.
03:55But if you're, like, Tennessee or Arizona, you're far away, that you would shy away from that?
04:01Yeah, it's a good question, and the analytics guys would tell you that.
04:06They would tell you, look what happened with Ashton Gentry last year with the Raiders.
04:10You know, he went sixth overall as a running back, and they would say, hey, his pay scale already puts
04:16him at, like,
04:17fifth, sixth, seventh amongst all the running backs in the league, and literally, they're not going to be good enough
04:22for him to add value.
04:24Does that make sense?
04:26You know, that's the point they're going to make.
04:28And my point is, every time you don't take an elite player or a better player, you're really diluting the
04:36value of your own team, regardless of position.
04:40Mike Mayock, joining us here on 105 through the fan.
04:42Mike, you know, when you were with the Raiders, you guys drafted edge rushers with some length.
04:48Like, Max Crosby, maybe his arms weren't quite as long, but his wingspan was on the higher end.
04:53But how do you approach an edge rusher like Bain, who just, we've never seen anybody with arm length like
05:00that,
05:00and how much of a problem do you think it would be?
05:02How would you approach him if you were running a draft room right now, and how you guys would have
05:06him on the board?
05:07Yeah, I think the most important thing is alignment within your building.
05:11So you've got a guy that's got an anomaly with his arms.
05:14Number one, I'd make sure our guys measured them, because there's usually a differential between senior bowl, combine, pro days.
05:23And it used to drive me crazy that one arm length was 32 1⁄2 and another was 31 1⁄4.
05:29You know, so you really have to qualify it.
05:31That's point number one.
05:32Point number two is once you buy into the fact that he has historically low, or excuse me, historically short
05:38arms for that position,
05:39he needs an elite power to overcome it.
05:43He needs something elite in his game that can change the narrative.
05:47And what this kid does have is power.
05:51He has to have an ability to get into an offensive tackle's chest,
05:56because if that tackle just keeps punching him wide, he's not going to get to a quarterback.
06:01So he's got to have an elite power quotient, and this kid does.
06:06So I think what you do is you sit down in your building with your head coach, your defensive coordinator,
06:12and your scouts,
06:13and you work through, okay, how do we see this kid?
06:17Can he overcome that?
06:18Are there other players that have?
06:20How have they done it?
06:21And if so, what's our plan to develop him?
06:25Are we going to kick him inside in sub-packages on third down, get him up against the shorter arm
06:30centers and guards?
06:31How are we going to play this kid?
06:33And I think it's important that the entire building is on the plan, and that day one, once he gets
06:39to camp,
06:40you're going to implement that plan.
06:42How do you end up approaching somebody like Arvel Reese, where you're looking at him and you go,
06:48linebacker tape is really good, but the skill set definitely looks like it could be an NFL edge rusher,
06:52but that is a projection since he wasn't asked to do that consistently at Ohio State.
06:56How do you view Reese?
06:58Do you view him as a full-time NFL linebacker with some rush capability, or is that an edge rusher
07:01to you?
07:02Yeah, I think he's rare, and I think you look at him like worst-case scenario, he's an all-pro
07:09off-the-ball linebacker.
07:11And best-case scenario, because of what's happening with NFL defenses and sub-packages these days,
07:18he becomes a joker, meaning you can move him anywhere, and that's what Ohio State did.
07:23What was kind of crazy about this kid at Ohio State is within one game, he would play three different
07:29positions.
07:29They had him at off-the-ball linebacker, and he was outstanding.
07:33They would play him at edge, defensive end, outside linebacker, and he was really good.
07:38And then on third down, he'd be anywhere from standing up over the center all the way out to past
07:44the defensive end,
07:45and they'd move him around, and he'd play all the game, you know, twists, stunts, whatever.
07:49He knows how to do that. Now, what you have to do is, again, have a defined plan.
07:55Who is he? Is he Micah Parsons? Is he the kid that came out last year from Georgia, Jalen Walker?
08:00Jalen Walker was an off-the-ball linebacker that I thought had to be 100% on the line of
08:05scrimmage,
08:06and that's what Atlanta did. They drafted him in the first round, they put him as a defensive end,
08:10and that's who he's going to be.
08:11I think this kid, Reese, is a little bit different.
08:14He can play 34 outside linebacker, and I think what you're trying to do is you're trying to ultimately integrate
08:21him
08:21into being close to a full-time pass rusher like a Micah Parsons is now.
08:26Mike, when you're putting your final board together, what do you do with a player like Jermon McCoy,
08:31the corner from Tennessee, whose tape two years ago is outstanding, but then he doesn't play a year due to
08:36the injury,
08:37and then depending on your medical staff, might have to have another surgery on that knee?
08:42Yeah. We all saw what happened to Will Johnson last year from Michigan.
08:47I think he ended up going like 47 to Arizona, and he was a very talented kid, very similar to
08:53McCoy.
08:55If the concerns, if the medical concerns, and this is where you lean on your doctors,
09:00but if your doctors say, look, I'm not even sure he's going to get through this year, let alone next
09:06year,
09:07it's a little different than if they say, I think he's good for one contract.
09:12Then you say, okay, are we good with getting a first-round pick for only one contract,
09:15and then we're going to deal with a corner with bulky knees.
09:19So you've got to kind of lean on your medical, and if it's legit,
09:24and I think there's more smoke, I think there's more fire than smoke here, I think it might be legit,
09:30then I think you're going to see this kid fall a lot like the Michigan kid did a year ago.
09:34Mike Mayock, draft analyst here on 105.3 The Fan.
09:38Obviously, corner is a very much discussed position for the Cowboys.
09:44Mike, what is your evaluation of this corner class?
09:47And let's start off with Delaney, who a lot of people have now going to the Cowboys.
09:52Yeah, I think he becomes even more valuable now if the medical concerns about McCoy are legit,
09:58because teams are going to look at it like Dallas at 12 and 20 and go, wait a minute,
10:03a minute ago we thought we had two guys, either one of which would be acceptable to us.
10:08We thought we had two guys. Now there's only one.
10:11So I think Delaney is going in the top ten.
10:14That's the first thing.
10:17And then you've got to kind of look around and say, okay, you know, where's Colton Hood going?
10:23Is he going to get pushed up a little bit?
10:24He's a legit first-round corner.
10:26Avion Terrell from Clemson, everybody publicly is kind of off him a little bit,
10:33because he supposedly ran 4'6", and I kind of laugh because I watch the tape,
10:38and he can play. He can flat-out play. He can run also.
10:43So I've confirmed with some people around the league that they think he can run also.
10:47I think Terrell is going to go.
10:49And I think also that the kid from South Carolina and the kid from San Diego.
10:58Yeah, Cissé.
10:59And then the kid I really like that I think is going to get in the 20s is a San
11:03Diego State kid.
11:06But he can play press. He can play off. He tackles.
11:10He's got a great reputation as a young man.
11:12I think he's going to get pushed up a little bit also.
11:15Mike, there's some discussion, and we're talking with Mike Mayock here on 105.3 The Fan.
11:18There's some discussion that if Dallas were to get wiped out at 12 of the defenders they want,
11:22because they clearly are in need of some defensive help,
11:24that their board may be staring them in the face and looking like,
11:27man, the value here is really Jordan Tyson, the receiver from Arizona State,
11:32if he were to get pushed down there.
11:33When you've got as many defensive needs as the Cowboys do,
11:36could you see a scenario where you could justify saying,
11:39hey, Tyson's just too good a value here,
11:42or there's some offensive player that's too good a value here
11:44to just reach on a defender at 12?
11:47Yeah, I think there's a couple different things filtering through this conversation.
11:52One is, what do your medical people say about Tyson?
11:57There's a growing concern around the league that players that have a, quote,
12:01volume of injuries, not just, okay, he went to his pro day, he showed out,
12:06he looked good, let's go.
12:08But if you've had a volume of injuries in college,
12:11you're more likely to continue that pattern,
12:13and therefore his risk-reward scenario is real.
12:19He's got the highest ceiling in the draft at wideout,
12:23yet I'm concerned about where the floor would be.
12:25That's point number one.
12:26However, philosophically, if your defensive board is already wiped out at 12,
12:31which I have problems thinking that the whole board would be,
12:35but if it is, then you've got to look at the offensive side
12:38and say, who's the best player there?
12:39Is it, you know, it might be Makai Lemon.
12:43It might be a tackle.
12:45You've got a tackle that, you know, potentially you could kick inside the guard,
12:50and maybe that unit of five players is better this year.
12:54So I 100% believe that if your defensive board is decimated
12:58and there's more value in offense, you've got to go there.
13:01In a hypothetical, let's say it does get wiped out,
13:04and I'm the Cowboys, I reach out to you about a player you know well in Max Crosby
13:08that you drafted in Vegas.
13:10What do you think is his future right now, health-wise,
13:13and should the Cowboys still consider making a move for him?
13:21I'm very partial to Max.
13:22I know him very, very well, and I stay in touch with him.
13:26And I think he's a special human being for a lot of reasons,
13:30not the least of which is overcoming the addiction that he had.
13:35But at the end of the day, Max Crosby makes any freaking team better
13:39when he walks into their locker room, just walking in the locker room.
13:43He's one of those very few guys that is a come-with-me-and-we're-going-to-get-better
13:48kind of guy.
13:49Like, he's going to outwork every – people think they know how to work hard?
13:52Wait till Max gets there.
13:54And it's not like a big mouth screaming and yelling at people.
13:57It's just people are going to follow him in the right direction.
14:00And, you know, as long as you're comfortable with his medical,
14:06which certainly the Raiders are,
14:08and you think you can get three-plus quality years out of Max,
14:13I would tell any team, you know, I would be all-in on Max Crosby.
14:17Mike, you have been in that room.
14:20They're changing it this year to eight minutes on the clock.
14:23How much of an impact do you think that is going to have?
14:27And if you're a team like the Cowboys, rumored to be doing some moving,
14:31does that hurt you a lot more than the way they've set it up?
14:35If you're really well-prepared and you can make a decision
14:39and you've got the right people in the room with you
14:42and you've gone through a lot of the scenarios prior,
14:46I think it can help a well-prepared team.
14:48It's extra pressure on teams that have to make a quicker decision
14:52and if you can move nimbly, quickly, and decisively,
14:58you might be able to make a couple of pretty good deals.
15:00And I would tell you that a lot of the GMs are making phone calls
15:05to each other right now and they're kind of sharing,
15:08hey, I'd move down from 12 or 20 or I'd like to move up
15:11or we're ready to move either direction.
15:13Call me if you need, either way.
15:16Here's what I'm looking at from a value perspective for pick number 20.
15:20I think a lot of those conversations are going on around the league,
15:23which only help once you get close to being on the clock.
15:27Mike Mayock, Sumer Sports, to follow even more of his fantastic coverage.
15:32Thank you so much for joining us again and enjoy the draft.
15:36Hey, thanks for having me on, fellas.
15:37Have a great day.
15:38Have a great day.
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